View Full Version : Help me make a decision
Walker_Texasranger
01-26-20, 09:35
I’ve got a BCM 14.5 with an aimpoint T2 and I love it. I also have a 6920 that I don’t use much because I don’t like FSBs and short rails but always want to keep a Colt around.
I want another AR to put an LPVO on. I’m thinking about Knights and could get a 16” SR15 now or I could get a KAC lower and 14.5 upper. I’d then have to have the upper pinned.
The complete 16” would be a couple hundred cheaper plus the pinning. Wondering if it’s worth double the price over just doing another BCM?
Eurodriver
01-26-20, 09:44
I feel a decade of being all-in with this hobby has given me at least some legitimacy in sharing two of my AR15 rules.
1) Buying a KAC is almost always “worth it”
2) Pinning a flash hider never is.
You have good taste. Get the KAC.
Walker_Texasranger
01-26-20, 10:16
I feel a decade of being all-in with this hobby has given me at least some legitimacy in sharing two of my AR15 rules.
1) Buying a KAC is almost always “worth it”
2) Pinning a flash hider never is.
You have good taste. Get the KAC.
I just really like the balance of 14.5s and think that would easily be the standard if we didn’t have these asinine laws. But I hear you. So far, my pinned BCM hasn’t caused any issues but the 16” KAC would lend better to a scope anyway I suppose.
You could always cut down the front sight on the Colt and they have drop in free float rail options that will use your existing delta ring.
I have the Troy Charlie but I left the front sight and I've been happy with it.
https://troyind.com/products/charlie-blk
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Wondering if it’s worth double the price over just doing another BCM?
From the reliability factor - probably no. From the coolness and shootability factor (accuracy, ambi controls) - possibly.
I'd go with 14.5 pinned if you're not assembling an upper yourself especially for KAC since you won't be able to easily remove URX 4 rail anyway without special tools. FYI: Somebody from KAC commented in another thread that pinning a muzzle device voids a factory warranty.
Or you can buy a KAC lower with all the ambi controls and another BCM 14.5 upper avoiding non-standard parts like bolt and barrel. But at that point you might as well go with all BCM and save some money. Tough choices, both are good brands though.
Walker_Texasranger
01-26-20, 10:45
From the reliability factor - probably no. From the coolness and shootability factor (accuracy, ambi controls) - possibly.
I'd go with 14.5 pinned if you're not assembling an upper yourself especially for KAC since you won't be able to easily remove URX 4 rail anyway without special tools. FYI: Somebody from KAC commented in another thread that pinning a muzzle device voids a factory warranty.
Or you can buy a KAC lower with all the ambi controls and another BCM 14.5 upper avoiding non-standard parts like bolt and barrel. But at that point you might as well go with all BCM and save some money. Tough choices, both are good brands though.
Yea I’m more interested in the KAC bolt and gas system then I am their lower.
I just really like the balance of 14.5s and think that would easily be the standard if we didn’t have these asinine laws. But I hear you. So far, my pinned BCM hasn’t caused any issues but the 16” KAC would lend better to a scope anyway I suppose.
There is nothing wrong with pinning a 14.5" barrel unless you feel the need to swap muzzle devices around on a regular basis. If you buy a can down the road, you can always send the upper out to have the new mount swapped over. Sure its a couple more bucks, but it isn't like drilling or grinding a pin head is hard work for semi decent smiths.
I have huge doubts that you would see a difference between the 14.5" and 16" barrels in terms of accuracy, but going with an 18" KAC Precision upper is always another option if its going to live with a scope.
I have a KAC upper that I put a 1-6x on. It's an awesome setup. Capable of 1MOA. I'd say go for the 16".
From the reliability factor - probably no. From the coolness and shootability factor (accuracy, ambi controls) - possibly.
I'd go with 14.5 pinned if you're not assembling an upper yourself especially for KAC since you won't be able to easily remove URX 4 rail anyway without special tools. FYI: Somebody from KAC commented in another thread that pinning a muzzle device voids a factory warranty.
Or you can buy a KAC lower with all the ambi controls and another BCM 14.5 upper avoiding non-standard parts like bolt and barrel. But at that point you might as well go with all BCM and save some money. Tough choices, both are good brands though.
Here is one of mine with a 14.5" Noveske tack driver barrel mated to a KAC rail and pinned to a KAC muzzle device. It wears a 1-6, though it could just as easy wear a longer range / higher power optic if desired.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/04774477dcbb271b72b996f95cc478bc/tumblr_pnvfkjhJbE1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/d9aa6a49a2796ee503b22407b3fa625a/tumblr_pys7qlX3NO1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/05c6094b32e5dc79e842049a21802144/tumblr_pys7qbltbZ1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
Yea I’m more interested in the KAC bolt and gas system then I am their lower.
So maybe just get a new KAC upper and put it on your Colt lower? Stash the Colt upper in the back of the safe, and swap back whenever you feel like it. Unless you really want / need a third complete rifle....
Unless it came from Jack, I'd be skeptical about the claim that pinning will void the warranty. I do know that KAC won't work on a gun with a pinned MD, so you'd have to get it un-pinned if you needed to send it back, but that's usually rare. There was a 14.5 vs. 16 thread within the past few months where I posted a comparison between the two. I had a 16" and sold it because I still like the 14.5 better. The biggest thing to me is the rail - I want a rail that covers almost the whole barrel but keep in mind while people claim there is only about a 1" difference between the barrels, the rails are typically 13 vs 15 inches. That's more length and weight than I want to deal with. Plus, the LPR and 16 would be a little unnecessary, but I feel 11.5, 14.5, and LPR's 18 is a good range of options.
Also, if there was ever a gun at 16.1 or under that I'd put the new Razor 1-10 on, it'd be that one.
Yea I’m more interested in the KAC bolt and gas system then I am their lower.
If that's the case, then it seems that you're already leaning towards a KAC upper that has their bolt and their gas system in the 16" or 14.5" variety.
I have an 11.5 and 14.5. Between the two, I find myself shooting the 14.5 more often. As far as weight and balance on it goes, it is perfect to me. I don't have experience with the 16" KAC, but as mentioned above, the extra inch of barrel and 2 inches of rail may make the slightest difference.
The way I see it, if you are already putting the money down, just go for the 14.5. No sense in compromising for something that is just almost perfect. I really think 16" rifles would be few and far between if not for NFA.
You will love the 14.5. The muzzle device it comes with standard really doesn't need any changing IMO. Only reason I can see is if you had a suppressor in mind other than a KAC that you would like to run.
Blankstrap
01-26-20, 19:53
I've picked up ARs as interest and opportunity converged, but no real pattern to it except due diligence on quality manufactures. Settled on BCM, DD and Colt and am happy enough, but if I were to clean slate, I'd buy a two KAC 16"s and call it.
To each their own, but I think pinning is a nuisance for zero gain -- I find no meaningful difference in balance or overall compactness versus the 16".
16"s to me are an excellent "do everything" size, and KACs are tuned for it and to work of a piece; I'd save the cash, buy the complete KAC 16" and be pleased.
Yea I’m more interested in the KAC bolt and gas system then I am their lower.
In that case you've answered your own question. Barrel length is a matter of personal preference. You own both, just play around with each and decide.
I would go 16” kac.
If you suppress down the road, assuming it uses a longer qd mount, you could cut down to 13.7/14.0.
If you want to cut down, I wouldnt talk you out of it, but I would not suggest it if you are not 100% sure or have a dedicated muzzle device yet. The 1.5” isnt as big a deal without a silencer hanging off the end... and even then, its nice, but I doubt there will be noticeable performance gains.
Eurodriver
01-27-20, 07:25
I have a stamp for a 14.5” gun. 14.5” guns are great.
But I think pinning is that stupid.
The price of pinning is like half what a stamp costs.
I would go 16” kac.
If you suppress down the road, assuming it uses a longer qd mount, you could cut down to 13.7/14.0.
If you want to cut down, I wouldnt talk you out of it, but I would not suggest it if you are not 100% sure or have a dedicated muzzle device yet. The 1.5” isnt as big a deal without a silencer hanging off the end... and even then, its nice, but I doubt there will be noticeable performance gains.
Cutting down a 16” KAC upper would be a colossal pain due to URX4 to the muzzle. 14.5” upper is the way to go, if you intend to end up at that length anyway. I also would not recommend putting a can under a URX4. They get hot enough with just barrel under them.
I have a stamp for a 14.5” gun. 14.5” guns are great.
But I think pinning is that stupid.
The price of pinning is like half what a stamp costs.
Pinning is fine, until the “gunsmith” you pay to do it swaps your peel washer for a crush washer, and you don’t notice right away. Or when you find yourself looking for the shortest barrel/longest muzzle device combo instead of using a 14.5” and a suppressor mount, or a 14.7” plus A2.
~14.5” SBR’s are great, indeed. I need to file for my 14” BRT/ 13” URX4 so it’ll have its own lower.
1- I have a stamp for a 14.5” gun. 14.5” guns are great.
2- But I think pinning is that stupid.
3- The price of pinning is like half what a stamp costs.
I have stamps for guns that I use 18" barrels on, and later that day it wears an 8" barrel. 14.5" guns are great for indoor work when compared to the extra couple inches on their 16" cousins. When you are outside, its hard to see much difference between 14/5 vs 16 (at least for me it is).
Pinning is stupid, but its the price we pay for the idiocy of the SBR game. There is nothing in the 2A that comes close to making a SBR registration, taxation, or legislation legal. NOTHING.
Pinning is based on a few things, and most people could probably affix the muzzle device in place and drill it themselves if price were an object. Taking it to a local welder would be dirt cheap. I do agree that by the time someone sends it off, pays for the work, and return shipping, the costs get high quick.
See? You think we don't agree on anything, and I got yo back on all three of these!! :D
1) Buying a KAC is almost always “worth it”
2) Pinning a flash hider never is.
Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!
titsonritz
01-27-20, 12:51
Here is one of mine with a 14.5" Noveske tack driver barrel mated to a KAC rail and pinned to a KAC muzzle device. It wears a 1-6, though it could just as easy wear a longer range / higher power optic if desired.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/04774477dcbb271b72b996f95cc478bc/tumblr_pnvfkjhJbE1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/d9aa6a49a2796ee503b22407b3fa625a/tumblr_pys7qlX3NO1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/05c6094b32e5dc79e842049a21802144/tumblr_pys7qbltbZ1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
What is that behind the front sight?
What is that behind the front sight?
A stop / rest from KAC. Not sure if they are made anymore.
I feel a decade of being all-in with this hobby has given me at least some legitimacy in sharing two of my AR15 rules.
1) Buying a KAC is almost always “worth it”
2) Pinning a flash hider never is.
You have good taste. Get the KAC.
I'd rather have a pinned 14 5" carbine gas upper than a 16" middy. There is a subtle but noticeable improvement in handling that I prefer.
I pin because there are no SBRs in my state and I can discern a handling difference over a 16" + FH. Also, I don't care about the cost or effort of grinding off a FH or buying a new barrel on the small chance I want to make a change.
Ask yourself what are your chances of changing parts and your tolerance for extra work and cost.
Of course, I have a problem building uppers just because I can...
Dennis.
I have a stamp for a 14.5” gun. 14.5” guns are great.
But I think pinning is that stupid.
The price of pinning is like half what a stamp costs.
I hear you, but then again one can remain legal and not be on a registry (priceless).
Unless you just really have the new gun fever, shave your FSB and put a long rail on your 6920.
I've owned and shot Colts, KAC, and BCM and I would put a Colt barrel up against a KAC ANY DAY.
Walker_Texasranger
01-28-20, 08:46
It may have been mentioned here but 1.5” of barrel may not seem like a lot but combined with a 13” rail vs 15” rail, it makes a noticeable difference in overall handling. I think a 14.5” barrel/13” rail is the GOAT overall combo.
I'd rather have a pinned 14 5" carbine gas upper than a 16" middy. There is a subtle but noticeable improvement in handling that I prefer.
I have a 16" Colt M4 profile upper and a 14.5 pinned SOCOM profile. The 14.5 just looks and handles slightly better. Maybe it's the M4 profile vs. SOCOM profile, not sure but the 14.5 gets used and the 16" stays home.
My last 2 gun match featured several USPSA style stages with barricades, walls, barrels, etc., close confines and the 14.5 just felt natural in this environment.
I'd rather have a pinned 14 5" carbine gas upper than a 16" middy. There is a subtle but noticeable improvement in handling that I prefer.
It may have been mentioned here but 1.5” of barrel may not seem like a lot but combined with a 13” rail vs 15” rail, it makes a noticeable difference in overall handling. I think a 14.5” barrel/13” rail is the GOAT overall combo.
I have a 16" Colt M4 profile upper and a 14.5 pinned SOCOM profile. The 14.5 just looks and handles slightly better. Maybe it's the M4 profile vs. SOCOM profile, not sure but the 14.5 gets used and the 16" stays home.
My last 2 gun match featured several USPSA style stages with barricades, walls, barrels, etc., close confines and the 14.5 just felt natural in this environment.
Agreed, the difference is subtle; bit it's there. My wife's 14.5 SOCOM under 13" URX4 is probably the best handling gun we have when it doesn't have 3LBS glass + mount perched on top of it...
Agreed, the difference is subtle; bit it's there. My wife's 14.5 SOCOM under 13" URX4 is probably the best handling gun we have when it doesn't have 3LBS glass + mount perched on top of it...
I shoot iron sights so mine stays light, DD A1 rear with traditional front sight GB. I do use a KNS pin head front sight post, I paint the little globe on the top gold. Works for me.
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