View Full Version : Proper preparedness purchasing procedure
MountainRaven
01-26-20, 14:30
Or, "What order should you buy stuff in?" But I like being alliterative, when I can.
Inspired by this post:
You need mags, lots and lots of ammo, body armor, helmet, a duplicate of your battle rifle and pistol. Comms, NVGs, lots of batteries, water, a reliable vehicle, and a lawyer on retainer with enough cash to post 10% of a very high bond.
There are plenty of posts and articles and YouTube videos and what-not about what order to buy guns (for self-defense) in. And what should be the priority in buying support gear (lights, slings, holsters, magazines, optics, &c.) for them. But nothing about what order to get the ancillary non-firearm equipment in.
So if we add in NODs, armor, and so forth, what order does it go? And not just, "Guns, NODs, armor," or whatever but... just as we've broken down the order in which firearms are acquired, what order do you get the individual components of armor or NODs?
So if we take the general order that I've seen used for acquiring firearms:
1- Pistol (generally Glock 19 or similar)
a- Holster
b- White light
c- 5-10+ magazines
d- Magazine carrier(s)
2- Carbine (generally LE6920 or similar)
a- Sling
b- White light
c- Optic
d- 10+ magazines
e- Magazine carrier(s)
3- Pistol (similar to first pistol, but not necessarily identical, eg if Pistol 1 is a Glock 19, then Pistol 2 could be a Glock 34, 17, 19, 26, &c.)
a- Holster (if different from Pistol 1)
b- White light
c- 5-10+ magazines (if different from Pistol 1, otherwise double supply for Pistol 1)
4- Carbine (similar to first carbine, but not necessarily identical, eg if Carbine 1 is configured with an RDS, then Carbine 2 could have a LPVO, ACOG, &c. or be setup as a varminting rifle, a pistol, SBR, &c.)
a- Sling
b- White light
c- Optic
d- 10+ magazines (if different from Carbine 1, otherwise double supply for Carbine 1)
&c., &c., &c. For our purposes, I'm going to establish a hypothetical fifth and sixth items to demonstrate what I'm after:
5- NODs (PVS-14 or similar)
a- Rifle mount for PVS-14
b- Skull crusher head mount for PVS-14
6- IR laser/illuminator for Carbine 1 (MAWL or similar)
And of course, lists need not be:
1-Guns
2-NODs
3-Armor
4-Transpo
They can be:
1- A good car
2- A pistol
3- Armor (vest)
4- Carbine
&c.
The chief idea, in my mind, is to break it down into a sort of procedural list of what to buy. So if you have a constant source of income, and you're starting from scratch, what do you buy? And why in that particular order?
Alternatively, let's say you have a lump sum (say $5000 or $10000 budgeted - maybe per year, maybe because everything went up in a housefire or a tragic boating accident or whatever) and you're starting from scratch, what do you buy with that lump sum?
Diamondback
01-26-20, 14:43
Excellent question, one I've been musing on myself for a while as part of a piece I'm writing for my "non-GunNut" readers at Redstate. So far all I've tackled is the Rifle piece, but I'll throw out what I have for consideration and maybe we all as a community can use it to help build out into something bigger.
The building blocks here are in terms of "Basic Combat Loads" (BCL)--assuming 5.56 NATO and 30-rounders, seven loaded mags, 21 stripper-clips or 210 loose rounds; adjust accordingly for other calibers. On this chart, it's more important to "build out than down"--three shooters with three rifles and two BCL's each beats one guy with one rifle and a ton of ammo. The idea is that as you use down at one level, you pull forward from the next to replenish; order a replacement "Stage 5" case when the first is used down to half.
1. A rifle with one set of load-bearing gear and one BCL of full magazines for each able-bodied adult in the house, with one additional BCL of loaded mags each in a drag-bag that goes with the rifle anytime it leaves the house. All rifles should be a common caliber and action type, and should be in a serious caliber (5.56 NATO, .308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO--NOT .223 Rem or any of the "boutique" rounds. .300BLK MAY be okay, but I suggest sticking to something widely available off-the-shelf. Ammunition choices should come from the Molon or Doc Roberts lists.
2. For each rifle, two BCL's of loaded mags in an ammo can.
3. For each rifle, four BCL's of stripper clips in an ammo can, and one can with two BCL's of empty magazines.
4. For each rifle, four BCL's of bulk ammo in an ammo can.
5. For each rifle, one sealed factory case of bulk ammo.
NOTE: Stages 2-5 can be expanded as storage space and budget allow; these are what I consider personal "minimums" to start building toward. Like Abby's Lab Rule #9 says, "ALWAYS keep a spare!"
Are we talking preparing to hunker down in one location, or on the move? One person or multiple persons? My planning involves staying put in one location or setting up remote camps with food, water, water purification, clothing for different seasons, ammo and guns.
My planning involves freeze dried food supplies for 25 year storage and ammo. I'm not investing in high tech stuff like NVGs or Red Dots because my survival skills are more low tech. I won't be going commando, but for defensive needs. Thoughts of hit & run attacks would be something out there, but I'd be equipped for short term engagements.
Diamondback
01-26-20, 15:06
Are we talking preparing to hunker down in one location, or on the move? One person or multiple persons? My planning involves staying put in one location or setting up remote camps with food, water, water purification, clothing for different seasons, ammo and guns.
My planning involves freeze dried food supplies for 25 year storage and ammo. I'm not investing in high tech stuff like NVGs or Red Dots because my survival skills are more low tech. I won't be going commando, but for defensive needs. Thoughts of hit & run attacks would be something out there, but I'd be equipped for short term engagements.
Excellent question--part of my thinking was "enough stash to hold you for a bit, but still small enough that you're not excessively anchored down if it becomes Time To Leave"--in an environment like the Cascade Mountain foothills and river-valleys where you face lahar/mudflow threats that might force evacuation on a few moments' notice, you need a lot more agility than the stable geology and topology of AZ/NM. Also goes to the Rural/Urban question on "Bug Out or Bug In," too.
Excellent question--part of my thinking was "enough stash to hold you for a bit, but still small enough that you're not excessively anchored down if it becomes Time To Leave"--in an environment like the Cascade Mountain foothills and river-valleys where you face lahar/mudflow threats that might force evacuation on a few moments' notice, you need a lot more agility than the stable geology and topology of AZ/NM. Also goes to the Rural/Urban question on "Bug Out or Bug In," too.
My philosophy, spending as much time as I do in the rural back country is "Bug Around". It's a concept of having a base of operations, but the ability to operate in a area with a pre-determined radius for placement of supplies in hidden places for flexibility. Kind of like Army mobile field supply depots or FARPs (Forward Army and Refueling Points). Never keep all your stash in one place if you think it might be at risk.
My philosophy, spending as much time as I do in the rural back country is "Bug Around". It's a concept of having a base of operations, but the ability to operate in a area with a pre-determined radius for placement of supplies in hidden places for flexibility. Kind of like Army mobile field supply depots or FARPs (Forward Army and Refueling Points). Never keep all your stash in one place if you think it might be at risk.
You and I already live where 90% of the people that are "bugging out" are going to try and get to. They will be surprised when they get here.
You and I already live where 90% of the people that are "bugging out" are going to try and get to. They will be surprised when they get here.
I have been to Alaska once. Flew to Anchorage then caught a smaller plane to Kotzebue, which is north of the Arctic Circle. Had a high school friend whose Dad worked for the FAA and he was transferred there. Alaska is beyond the sticks - it's wide open nothing, and a tough place to survive.
People trying to bug out to places where they have no skills in operating will die in assorted ways - cold, starvation, disease, dehydration, heat stroke, prey to apex predators, etc....and running into other people who are better prepared for that environment not willing to share resources. It's the law of the jungle.
I am part of a rural group in this area who are not militia types, but meet monthly in sharing planning for natural disasters and such. Many are professionals or skilled tradesmen in various fields. It's not a cult or doomsday group, but families of all ages of similar thinking people, planning for potential hard times in the future. Each person brings some talent to the group. Our group includes medical professionals, an animal vet, blacksmith, woodworkers, electrician, former military, automotive mechanical tech, geologist, etc. We share our expertise including everyone who chooses gets firearms training. It's a select group that includes children and grandchildren. You don't have the tin foil hat weirdos or wannabe Rambos. Strictly a cross section of normal society.
I would think this could work for others around the US - a tight group of networked individuals bringing their individual talents to the larger whole.
Averageman
01-26-20, 18:22
There are a lot of folks buying a lot of high tech gear, and preps who are missing the boat on simple items like soap, hand sanitizer and disposable gloves and a few face masks.
Hygiene and clean water is more likely to save you than an extra 1000 rounds of 5.56.
grizzlyblake
01-26-20, 20:13
No kidding.
What I would say for the average American household:
1 normal AR, any reputable manufacturer
Sling for AR
5 ea 30rd mags, 500 rounds ammo
1 Glock 19
Kydex holster
250 rounds ammo
Kerosene heater, 20 gal kerosene
LED flashlights, lots of batteries
4 ea 5gal water jugs
5 flats bottled water
First aid kit, basic OTC medication
Lots of canned goods
Toilet paper, paper towels, trash bags
Full set of hand tools
Recovery kit in each vehicle (tow straps, etc)(4x4 vehicles)
4 ea 5 gal gasoline cans
Chainsaw with 5 gal premix fuel
Assortment blue tarps, plastic sheeting, duct tape
Sleeping bags for each family member
5 ea 1 gal bleach
5 ea 10lb fire extinguishers
The gun stuff is really fun to read and talk about, fun to buy and play with, but the reality is that there is so much more that is boring but actually way more likely to be useful in any emergency scenario.
Here's one thing to avoid for long term storage - fruit and citrus juices in cans. You're lucky to get a year or more in normal cool storage. Something in the acid of the juice turns the contents black and undrinkable. I've tried different brands and the same result, with different times. Cans are good for beans and vegetables.
Averageman
01-26-20, 21:00
I had sauerkraut do the same thing. The cans leaked at the seams at 2+ years.
Are we talking preparing to hunker down in one location, or on the move? One person or multiple persons? My planning involves staying put in one location or setting up remote camps with food, water, water purification, clothing for different seasons, ammo and guns.
My planning involves freeze dried food supplies for 25 year storage and ammo. I'm not investing in high tech stuff like NVGs or Red Dots because my survival skills are more low tech. I won't be going commando, but for defensive needs. Thoughts of hit & run attacks would be something out there, but I'd be equipped for short term engagements.
Yep, I'm set up for defend the fort. If the fort must be abandoned my fallback is taking over the local Wal Mart, after that I'd be screwed. If it's bad enough I abandon the fort, I only have as much ammo and supplies as I can carry and that means I probably have three days left.
Thankfully I'm in enough of a small town where I have a reliable "collective effort" to secure the street, the block and probably more than a few businesses. If city folks rolled through they'd probably break their teeth on us.
Straight Shooter
01-26-20, 22:02
Ive taken the last 5 or so years to acquire all the weapons/ammo /gear I feel Ill need should stuff go south.
My main concern, first & foremost, was/is water. I have the knowledge & tools now to make clean potable water. You can never store enough, youll have to make it, imo. I had a very rural upbringing and learned much about the woods, hunting, fishing, trapping, gigging, and much more. Ive collected an excellent library on many useful skills. I wont be buggin out on foot anywhere for various reasons. Ive got common sense enough to know when to go to my final destination, & I will while everyone else is still scratchin heads & asses. THE most important thing is, Im saved by the unearned grace of God. I dont fear dying, I fear living in a world that apparently half this country wants. NOT DOING IT. Unless one is very wealthy, & Im not, I feel it almost impossible to acquire EVERYTHING one or a family, will need to survive outside a few days, or a few weeks. As a single man, one measly income, Ive done the best I could. I feel my greatest asset, besides being saved..is my mindset. Im ready for what comes. Not sure Ill live thru it, but aint scared of it. I thank God for that, literally.
Also- what Ive done for years, is to have a list of needed stuff. And whenever something on that list pops up for sale, I bought it. Holiday sales are a great time to buy a lot of stuff. Havent gone "in order", just get as opportunity arises.
One thing to have also are a supply of oil lamps and lots of wick material (to last years) in addition to lamp oil. All of these items are still cheap and readily available. Also, out here in ranch country, we have people who know how to make clothing from brain tanned buckskin. I've got a buckskin coat with vintage 1870's Army buttons. Had a local Mountain Man I know up in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains make it for me in trade for some ranch tack items. Buckskin is actually quite durable, including for pants and footwear.
All these lists and training to proficiency isn't on them.
No mention of getting kitted up and putting in the grind of one foot after the other.
No mention of physical fitness.
All these lists and training to proficiency isn't on them.
No mention of getting kitted up and putting in the grind of one foot after the other.
No mention of physical fitness.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the nature of my daily work requires staying physically fit, in all kinds of weather.
MountainRaven
01-27-20, 13:38
All these lists and training to proficiency isn't on them.
No mention of getting kitted up and putting in the grind of one foot after the other.
No mention of physical fitness.
Because it would be redundant.
Diamondback
01-27-20, 14:45
All these lists and training to proficiency isn't on them.
No mention of getting kitted up and putting in the grind of one foot after the other.
No mention of physical fitness.
The other thing is, before you start training you have to have something to train WITH... and many people for various reasons are unABLE to make Mil/LE PFT standards even with conditioning. The thing is, do the best you can with what you got, but not all of us have as much to work with as Tier 1 Operators.
I'll just head back to my basement now...
grizzlyblake
01-27-20, 15:18
If you don't have anything to workout with or cannot afford a gym membership there are a lot of good home bodyweight exercises that, coupled with eating right, can help make good progress.
Diamondback
01-27-20, 15:52
I was referring more to weapons training on the gear part, since instructors generally don't like to do "loaners," and understandably so. :)
You may have already done this but the list starts with food and water and then more food and water and then more water. Water is a bitch to get, it heavy to move, and your dead in 3 days without it and fairly worthless after two. I would spend a lot of resources while you have them to figure out the water problem. Food is much easier, just need a place to store 5 gal buckets and little work to fill them, vacuum seal and label.
After that I think Weapons are easier than most think:
Defensive - rifle (556, 545, 762x39) and a handgun you can conceal. One of each for everyone in your household that can manage one. Probably a few thousand rounds of practice ball for each along with at least 500 rounds of HD ammo for both rifle and pistol (preferably 1k).
Hunting - 22lr rifle and 3k - 5k 22 ammo. 12 or 20 gauge shotgun for birds with a mixture of buck, slugs and birdshot. Then a heavy gun that could bring down most large animals in the US - 308, 6.5, .30-06, 270, ect.. I prefer a gas gun for this as it can work double duty. Another 200-1k hunting rounds depending on if its a gas gun or bolt.
With this you will also need all the peripherals - scopes, slings, holsters, bipods, cleaning kits, lube, mags, and replacement parts for all of them.
Then I think you get to armor and then nods. JMO
If you don't have anything to workout with or cannot afford a gym membership there are a lot of good home bodyweight exercises that, coupled with eating right, can help make good progress.
If you have an internet connection, you can start doing yoga RIGHT NOW. No special equipment needed, just an open space. It's a form of exercise most people can begin RIGHT NOW even if they ride the Wal Mart scooter or have some injuries. It's also an activity people can do longer than running or lifting weights so it generally comes with more cardio benefits.
grizzlyblake
01-27-20, 19:35
You may have already done this but the list starts with food and water and then more food and water and then more water. Water is a bitch to get, it heavy to move, and your dead in 3 days without it and fairly worthless after two. I would spend a lot of resources while you have them to figure out the water problem. Food is much easier, just need a place to store 5 gal buckets and little work to fill them, vacuum seal and label.
After that I think Weapons are easier than most think:
Defensive - rifle (556, 545, 762x39) and a handgun you can conceal. One of each for everyone in your household that can manage one. Probably a few thousand rounds of practice ball for each along with at least 500 rounds of HD ammo for both rifle and pistol (preferably 1k).
Hunting - 22lr rifle and 3k - 5k 22 ammo. 12 or 20 gauge shotgun for birds with a mixture of buck, slugs and birdshot. Then a heavy gun that could bring down most large animals in the US - 308, 6.5, .30-06, 270, ect.. I prefer a gas gun for this as it can work double duty. Another 200-1k hunting rounds depending on if its a gas gun or bolt.
With this you will also need all the peripherals - scopes, slings, holsters, bipods, cleaning kits, lube, mags, and replacement parts for all of them.
Then I think you get to armor and then nods. JMO
Good post but I think if someone has all their water, food, and guns squared away they should look into tools, lighting, cold weather gear, etc. way before armor and nods.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the nature of my daily work requires staying physically fit, in all kinds of weather.
Running around in assless chaps chasing snow bunnies right now may not count.:cool:
StovePipe_Jammer
01-27-20, 20:05
A good IFAK and the training on how to use it. Just like with a rifle, if you only have a cursory understanding of how to employ it, you're likely going to end up doing more harm than good.
You can't seal a chest wound with nods and the best plates on the planet won't stop a round from shredding an artery in a limb.
I get having all of the gear that sends rounds towards the bad guys. But they tend to send them back and may even land a few. Be ready to deal with that.
Because it would be redundant.
Oh, horseshit.
I run, lift, strap on a weight vest a couple times/wk, hike-we live in northern UT so safe to say just a little challenging terrain, and ski at least 2X/wk.
Those diff. forms of cardio I guess you'll consider redundant.
Everyone should just go for a short walk each wk. b/c it would hav the same physiological effects, right?
MountainRaven
01-27-20, 23:13
Oh, horseshit.
I run, lift, strap on a weight vest a couple times/wk, hike-we live in northern UT so safe to say just a little challenging terrain, and ski at least 2X/wk.
Those diff. forms of cardio I guess you'll consider redundant.
Everyone should just go for a short walk each wk. b/c it would hav the same physiological effects, right?
Bully for you.
PT and training is the basis for the list and that's why it's not on the list (not that hardly anybody has posted any lists). It's a prerequisite. Mentioning it is, ahem, redundant.
PT and training is the basis for the list and that's why it's not on the list (not that hardly anybody has posted any lists). It's a prerequisite. Mentioning it is, ahem, redundant.
Quit being obstinate.
Nowhere was it discussed and unfortunately, very few even consider it, let alone consider it a prerequisite. It is far from redundant when it is not even on many people's radar.
turnburglar
01-28-20, 15:33
Quit being obstinate.
Nowhere was it discussed and unfortunately, very few even consider it, let alone consider it a prerequisite. It is far from redundant when it is not even on many people's radar.
To be fair; I think he is referring to the fact that the average poster on this website, isn't the average cross section of America. With a large portion being prior mil (myself) or LE, PT is a prerequisite for the job. Most guys having played HS sports competitively just think of gym time like they do eating and bathing. I could post up workouts, but most dudes have a system already that works for them.
Evel Baldgui
01-28-20, 19:49
Interesting thread. My question is, preparation for what? Inclement weather ? Disease outbreak? Severe social unrest? The ones I mentioned would be very short lived.
A tornado in the midwest, severe hurricane in the south, severe winter in the midwest/northeast, the effects would last 2-4 weeks tops? Maybe 6-8 ? One should have sufficient supplies, to stay at home for at least 1-3 months, without electricity or running water, whether you reside in a suburban home or the 24th floor of a city condo. Whatever supplies one deems necessary water, cookies, canned vegetables, tuna fish, 2k 9mm ammo, a pistol, an AR, IFAk, etc should be at hand. If one is traveling, the requirements change. One can keep simple, basic items in the vehicle trunk, such as a case of water, protein bars, small weekend travel bag with change of clothes, toiletries, small first aid kit, handgun with 3-5 mags and maybe some spare ammo, etc. If one is thinking zombie apocalypse, severe nuclear event, you're done. You may survive a week or a month but you will succumb to some vile malady within a short period of time. I've been through hurricanes in South Florida, blizzards in New England, rioting in Barcelona, and flooding in the Caribbean and Mexico, within a 2 week period circumstances were pretty much back to normal. Also, most untoward events here, due to the size of the country, are limited events. A hurricane in South Florida will have no impact on people in Seattle, their Starbucks flow will not stop. A volcanic eruption causing Seattle to be covered in ash and social services break down, in Miami people will be sipping mojitos and folks in Dallas will go to the mall. Should a massive catastrophic event encompass all between NYC & LA, then well no amount of prep is really going to be of benefit.
So here is an interesting exercise for those who can lawfully do it in their zip code.
Walk to the gun range. Carry everything you will need for a couple hours of shooting. It dispels a lot of assumptions.
I've got a range less than two miles away. I soft cased two rifles with mags and backpacked 500 rounds, cleaning supplies, some other firearms related crap, some snacks and a sports drink. People who are or recently have been in the military call that "tuesday" but for me, it was a mild eye opener.
If I had to carry three days worth of supplies and did 10 miles a day, I'd be pretty well shot to hell and not exactly "ready to engage" if I had to take on random goblins I wouldn't be nearly as ninja as I thought I'd be when I imagine it in my head without the part where I hump all that shit 10 miles.
20 years ago I probably could have gone hills for months at a time, especially if I was able to prestock some remote destinations in advance and had a reliable source for clean water as well as some hunting and fishing opportunities. Now I think a challenging drill would be camping out on the back deck, but it's got to be fall weather cause I don't want to deal with bugs and it doesn't count if I run inside and use the bathroom cause my neighbors shouldn't have to see that.
But that Red Dawn fantasy...there is a reason they had teenagers in that movie. All the adults intended to go up in the mountains too...but by the time they ran to the edge of town they needed to sit down for a few minutes, knock back a few power bars, loosen their boots a bit and chug a few sports drinks.
grizzlyblake
01-29-20, 05:26
I've hunted my whole life and always traveled light. Lots of public land so lots of miles through swamps and hills carrying everything.
If I'm going to start hiking with my AR with no end destination it's going to be very, very light. Probably just my lightweight 16" with T2, stick a 20rd Pmag in the gun and maybe 5 more 20 rounders in my pack, 64gr GDSP in all. A Glock 48 would be nice on the belt with a few extra mags of 124gr+P GDSP in the pack. Water, TP, fire starter, rain/cold gear, at this point probably a baby carrier with a 2 year old in it, diapers, food, etc. In this scenario I guess the dogs got left behind.
I don't own a chest rig or any of the high count mag carriers just because I don't see any situation where I'd be ditching water and supplies to carry more ammo anywhere.
I've been thinking about all this a lot lately and am coming to the conclusion *for me* that the standard of one tricked out rifle with tons of mags and thousands of rounds of surplus ammo isn't the best way to do it. I'm sticking with two super streamlined carbines - 16" LW, nice two stage trigger, MRDS, rail covers for gloveless carry/use, 20rd Pmags, VCAS slings with rail forward QD mount. Maybe 10 mags per each rifle and enough GDSP to fill each mag two or three times. Having two full setups allows backup/redundancy or the ability to arm the wife or other family member.
I've preached the Glock 19 gospel for many years and have carried one for years (ran a 5k with one AIWB). I'm beginning to think I may be better suited to a pair of Ameriglo'd G48/43xs with high and tight kydex OWB holsters. Same logic as above, handful of spare mags for each and sufficient GDSP to fill them all 2-3 times.
Outside of all that just buy FMJ practice ammo as needed, although I'm thousands of rounds deep on both already.
From there move on to the other just as important gear for backpacking with your whole family, or camping out at home for an extended period of time. Water and cold weather gear are the highest priorities.
So here is an interesting exercise for those who can lawfully do it in their zip code.
Walk to the gun range. Carry everything you will need for a couple hours of shooting. It dispels a lot of assumptions.
I've got a range less than two miles away. I soft cased two rifles with mags and backpacked 500 rounds, cleaning supplies, some other firearms related crap, some snacks and a sports drink. People who are or recently have been in the military call that "tuesday" but for me, it was a mild eye opener.
If I had to carry three days worth of supplies and did 10 miles a day, I'd be pretty well shot to hell and not exactly "ready to engage" if I had to take on random goblins I wouldn't be nearly as ninja as I thought I'd be when I imagine it in my head without the part where I hump all that shit 10 miles.
20 years ago I probably could have gone hills for months at a time, especially if I was able to prestock some remote destinations in advance and had a reliable source for clean water as well as some hunting and fishing opportunities. Now I think a challenging drill would be camping out on the back deck, but it's got to be fall weather cause I don't want to deal with bugs and it doesn't count if I run inside and use the bathroom cause my neighbors shouldn't have to see that.
But that Red Dawn fantasy...there is a reason they had teenagers in that movie. All the adults intended to go up in the mountains too...but by the time they ran to the edge of town they needed to sit down for a few minutes, knock back a few power bars, loosen their boots a bit and chug a few sports drinks.
Great post.
Stand up, grab your pack, and go for a walk. Vary loads, temps, terrain, and destinations. See what you're actually capable of.
At the end of your next work day, walk home with your "get home" pack. Learn your thresholds for onset of fatigue, thirst, hunger, aches and pains. Think about how many others might be walking and the need to avoid them.
Go camping over several weekends, gradually reducing comforts and niceties.
Do stuff.
The title of this thread mentions "preparedness" - For What? So far we are discussing purchases without any kind of defined mission or situation. This is what is called: "The Cart before the Horse". What are we preparing for? Civil War, SHTF, Gun Confiscation, Pandemic.....?
I retired from the Army the end of 1999, right in the middle of the AWB. Even then I started buying things that I figured I wouldn't be able to get sometime in the future. With the sunset of the AWB in 2004, I went full throttle in purchases of ammo for long term storage and firearms. I live in an area of the US where "prepping" is a way of life. We've lost power for two weeks at one point due to iced fallen power lines. We survived. We have plenty of water and the means of easy protein (cattle). We can also grow garden vegetables. Other than that, if everything fell apart in society, you wouldn't know it here if we lost power. We'd just keep plugging along, perhaps heading out towards the highway 16 miles away to see what was going on, perhaps fortifying our location. We've got plenty of guns and lots of ammo - and everything else to basic comforts even if we lost all power and communications, and eventually ran out of fuel for vehicles. We have horse powered transportation.
For those in this thread pondering the OP's question, how many of you live in cities or in suburban areas? How many of you would be able to function surrounded by hundreds of thousands or millions of other people, all looking to take care of #1? I would be worried if I was in a mass population area. For this area, you just can't move out here and expect to survive. You have to have some kind of infrastructure to make it - water, food and shelter just as the basics or you die. It's too harsh of an environment.
My plans are for weeks, not years.
I'd be at the mercy of the Nobles for food and water.
If your plans are for years you'd better be in a self-sustaining community already.
Years living in pre-electricity conditions? No AC? No thanks. I'm spoiled now. Listen to "Fade to Black" for me. Oh wait...
A few years ago, about 2 months after a south florida hurricane, I walked from my workplace to my home. I was dropped off at my center on Saturday morning and walked home, took approximately 8-9 hrs for a 26 mile jaunt. All I carried was a small backpack with two 16 oz water bottles, plus other 'get home' items, a g19 and two spare mags. Weight may have been at most 10-12 lbs. Went thru very safe residential neighborhoods, made note of gas stations/grocery stores, quiet discreet rest areas, and assorted hidden comfort locations. If I had to do that now, I would obtain an offload bike to make the journey easier. Did it just in case I was stuck at work for 'x' reason, storm, power failure, impassable roads, etc. Most important lesson learned ALWAYS wear comfortable quality footwear :-) and take Advil before starting any long trek. As two posters have noted, preparation for what? In my case, most severe issue would pre/post weather event; and for that items are always at hand and in stock at my home. Events like local social unrest and rioting? Stay home and avoid area, also extremely unlikely to occur in my armed guard gated upscale suburban locale. One usually has sufficient warning to avoid such areas and you're really unlikely to just walk into or drive into a massive riot, if so, phuck it, I'll drive through or around them, or grab my always in the car bag, leave the vehicle and join the festivities! My auto insurance is always paid let them deal with it. Other untoward situations, ?flu like pandemic? Same, stay home, proper hygiene, avoid crowds, and have assorted medical supplies on hand (as a physician I have that covered). Preparation for a nuclear zombie apocalypse (pure nonsense btw) .... good luck with that; irrelevant no matter if you're in NYC, Illinois corn country, ranch in AZ or NM you will perish.
What one should be prepared for are weather events, vehicle breakdowns in desolate areas, power failures, things of that nature.... are what Joe citizen is likely to encounter and should be able to manage even with a modicum of 'preparation'.
Shelter, Food and Water - If you have the ability to retain and maintain those three, you can survive. My family has lived where I am writing this since the 1750's - continuously. There were no towns, no roads to speak of except wagon trails, and no civilization other than what we brought. Even today we are 70 miles from the nearest city, and over 20 miles from the nearest little settlement with a post office.
I have the ability to maintain Shelter, Food and Water - everything else is "lagniappe" as they say in my wife's Cajun culture - the extras, bonus items. Although my first family member in the male line came to New Mexico in 1622, my ancestors managed to stay on this very land 270 years without modern conveniences - I think we can do it as well if required. These ancestors tried before the 1750's to secure this Land Grant, but kept running into Comanches, Kiowas and Apaches who apparently wanted it more. Finally we overcame the competition.
I think we have the same tenacity, plus some modern tools for defense and survival not available to earlier family members. We'll be alright.
just a scout
01-29-20, 12:23
S-Self Defense (weapons)
M-Medical (IFAK, booboo kits, medications)
O-Optics/Observation (NVG, Thermals, binos, scopes)
L-Land Navigation (maps, compass, GPS)
E-Extreme Weather (rain gear, CW gear, MOPP gear)
S-Survival (food, water purification and storage, fire starting, shelter, etc)
The title of this thread mentions "preparedness" - For What? So far we are discussing purchases without any kind of defined mission or situation. This is what is called: "The Cart before the Horse". What are we preparing for? Civil War, SHTF, Gun Confiscation, Pandemic.....?
That's probably also zip code dependent.
Some of us might see something like the Rodney King riots where thousands of hostiles are hunting targets and there are no emergency responders. You could have to do weeks on your own, Korean response was interesting and informative.
The Northridge earthquake of 1994 was also a significant event that taught a lot of folks about the challenges of their environment. Hurricanes, fires, tornadoes and the like can always produce an extreme example that can cripple locations for weeks.
That is the kind of event most of us should be thinking about. If you know what is likely, you are likely to be better prepared.
And honestly if the government goes rogue or we get some kind of actual Red Dawn scenario where a foreign force is rolling tanks down US streets, well that is something very few people can realistically prepare for even if they think they are good to go. It's really not about how much ammo and batteries you have stockpiled, it's more about which of your neighbors are going to sell you out and which ones are going to actually help you. And you really won't know that until it happens so you really can't prepare. Best you can really do is have a list of people you know you are "going to kill immediately" and most people don't think like that.
If Russian tanks are rolling down main street pretty much every plan goes right out the window and luck and being able to improvise on the fly are probably more significant factors than how much shit you can hump and how many supplies you stashed.
Think about the aftermath of 9-11 and all of the people, those lucky enough to have not died, who had to walk out of Manhattan. That will give you some idea of what cities will be like after a very significant event and keep in mind the 7-11s and Walmarts were still open and credit cards and cash still had actual value. If Russian tanks are rolling main street USA those things might be very different.
Diamondback
01-29-20, 21:17
Well said, Steyr. Step 1, before ANYTHING else, is to do a SWOT Analysis of your position, from political, environmental/geological and cultural perspectives.
S - Strengths
W - Weaknesses
O - Opportunities
T - Threats
A guy with a cornfield in Kansas faces primary environmental threats of drought or tornado, while here in the Cascade Foothills my primary threats are a flood in the river valleys taking out the bridges, or a mountain falling on me in a landside, or barfing the wall of superheated mud we call a lahar. Different threats requiring different preparations and/or evacuation options--the farmer can shelter in place against his tornado, while with my flood or mudflow I have to be ready to flee for higher ground on moments' notice. Similarly, rioting and unrest is more of a concern in a major city than a small town like mine; the more common threat out here is the meth-heads and other junkies. Stuff like that.
That's probably also zip code dependent.
Your entire post with that statement is so correct. And the difference by zip code is whether your control your area of operation, or you are part of the herd.
Hunkering down in an urban or suburban area is real tenuous. Water and power are controlled by the community, not you. Eventually you don't have it. Then you have to consider movement if you're not hunkering down, but trying to "bug out". I see fuel shortages, traffic congestion and road blocks if using a vehicle, but if you're on foot, your range is limited and your're exposed to others who see your pack of survival items and guns and may want to challenge you for ownership. For my situation, I have no need to "bug out", but I would be concerned with people from the cities looking for refuge in rural locales they don't own.
I actually think something bad could be set off in the U.S. by a massive financial system hack. Imagine overnight the bank accounts of say 50 million Americans being drained of funds - all of it? Suddenly people are getting low bank account e-mails and overdraft messages. We've already seen little hits where $.10 or $.50 get pulled as a test, then put back in. Imagine 50 million Americans suddenly can't put gas in their cars, can't buy groceries, etc. The FDIC people would be spending weeks or months trying to handle the situation while you have chaos during that time. Things could get a little hot.
Fitness / PT / Training (whatever your flavor) should be a no brainer. But reality dictates its not. Even on this forum.
Here is one that is interesting, and almost worthy of its own thread. Nearly half of Americans did not recreate outside in 2017.
https://coloradosun.com/2020/01/29/fewer-americans-participate-in-outdoor-recreation/
When I worked in that industry we joked that most Goretex sold was to keep people dry as they walked to/from their home/car/business. Unfortunately, this is no longer a joke, its reality.
[QUOTE=SteyrAUG;2809731]That's probably also zip code dependent. THIS IS KEY !
Hurricanes, fires, tornadoes and the like can always produce an extreme example that can cripple locations for WEEKS.
That is the kind of event most of us should be thinking about. If you know what is likely, you are likely to be better prepared.
And honestly if the government goes rogue or we get some kind of actual Red Dawn scenario:HIGHLY UNLIKELY,
This post reiterates my comments that most untoward events are local, and one must have the necessary means to handle the aftermath of hurricanes and assorted weather events. As mentioned, such events can cause havoc for WEEKS, not months or years. One should be able to have the means necessary to withstand weeks of 'inconvenience' without electricity or running water for anywhere from 2-8, maybe 10-12 weeks in an urban /suburban environment; longer than that could be somewhat challenging, and other methods of procurement may be required.
This post reiterates my comments that most untoward events are local, and one must have the necessary means to handle the aftermath of hurricanes and assorted weather events. As mentioned, such events can cause havoc for WEEKS, not months or years. One should be able to have the means necessary to withstand weeks of 'inconvenience' without electricity or running water for anywhere from 2-8, maybe 10-12 weeks in an urban /suburban environment; longer than that could be somewhat challenging, and other methods of procurement may be required.
One of the reasons I left Florida is I was sick and tired of being the ONLY person who had a month worth of food and supplies. Hurricane Wilma had power out for about 3 weeks.
I had the grill set up in the driveway and my neighbors and I would grill hotdogs and stuff so the kids wouldn't freak out and it was more like camping.
By day THREE people had the nerve to walk about the driveway and ask for shit like it was some kind of community outreach program. Even worse were the assholes who would send their kids to ask if they could have a hot dog. Some kids got a freebie, some kids were reminded that their parents are the ones who never let their dog in at night and it barks non stop from 2am to 5am and that on weekends their parents play music so loud I can hear it inside MY living room 5 houses away and when I'm walking my dogs I can also smell their skunky weed from 5 houses away.
I told them to tell their parents that I left a whole bunch of food for them at the grocery store.
By week TWO I had people trying to BUY food from me. Hey, isn't your kid the one who dropped out of school and has been arrested twice for breaking into neighborhood houses to fund his drug problem? Yeah, I'm actually hoping you guys starve and die, should take about 3 weeks.
Anyone decent knew my disaster plans and also knew what they needed to bring to the table. We also knew people who were on their own and would need help, we made sure they got invited to the driveway party and would even go and get them because old folks are sometimes too polite to want to impose.
But that is all years in the rear view window. Of course in 2018 my small Iowa town took an F3 tornado down main street. I didn't get a scratch but a lot of people got their clocks cleaned and that last time anyone around here took a direct hit was 60 odd years ago. I knew most people wouldn't even know what they are going to need with half a roof gone, no electricity and in some cases no running water. I probably spent close to $5 grand on basic "this is what you are going to need" boxes of supplies for the people I felt a responsibility to.
At one point I think I had 16 people bunked down at my house. And I did it all with a smile because I didn't have to put up with any of the bullshit I used to deal with in Florida. We camped out a few nights at houses that were wide open and vulnerable, grilling on the front porch as per the drill. It amazed me how many neighbors walked around the block making sure other people "had everything they need like food, water and a dry, warm place to sleep." We handed out lots of free hotdogs those nights.
Guys who spent the night on the front deck "keeping an eye on things" not only watched their stuff but kept an eye on every house they could see. Bought the worst thing that happened from my LE friends was them catching kids going through cars at night.
The difference between my current zip code and the one I left in Florida was dramatic.
SteyrAUG,
I can understand your frustration with your Florida neighbors, during hurricane Wilma, we lost power for only 4 days in Parkland, no issues whatsoever with neighbors as 90% had generators, what else what you expect in a Parkland development. My wife and I could have been fine for at least 3 months, no generator, but running water; the backup security alarm battery went out after 72 hours but the dogs were a better alarm system and deterrent to any would be miscreants. No neighborhood grilling as no one really associated with each other except for an occasional nod if they were noticed during the course of the week.
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