View Full Version : LMT SPM16 or Colt LE6920?
SouthwestAviator
02-05-20, 09:30
I’m trying to decide between getting a new Colt 6920 or an LMT SPM16. Both are at a similar price point. From what I hear the LMT comes with a semi automatic bolt carrier and standard buffer and they don’t parkerize under the FSB. But on the other hand I see many talk about LMT as being a very high quality combat worthy rifle with government contracts. Anyone have any ideas on which is higher quality/would be the most reliable?
Unnecessary comparison.
Both are reputable companies and any quibbles on either have zero impact on anyone not using in a governmental unit.
Colt is the standard, so that is the easy choice, but you can make up your mind if there is something more appealing about having the LMT. Or, if you already have a Colt... Basically, Colt is the standard and the right choice if you don’t have one.
I believe LMT has a better bolt. Not their enhanced bolt I’m talking about either. Thier standard bolt has chamfers on the lugs or something like that.
Colt makes them they way they always have been. No real improvements in their guns.
grizzlyblake
02-05-20, 10:07
I thought you were getting another Daniel defense.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-05-20, 10:19
My brother has a spm16. He sent it to ADCO and has the barrel cut down to 14.5" he runs the enhanced BCG and a H2. It's probably the nicest shooting gas gun I personally have shot. I mean it is lights out.
I always hear people wondering about the enhanced BCG, with the 14.5" barrel and a .0625 gas port that gun ejects all spent brass into a neat pile at 4:30 almost 4:45. Never had a failure and the rifle is very high quality.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-05-20, 12:23
I RARELY say this, but you need a serious case of "use the search function". You just had a thread locked for something very similar. This question, and many more, have been rehashed here dozens of times.
Daniel Defense isn't good enough. LMT isn't good enough. For you buddy, no manufacturer will ever please you.
Blankstrap
02-05-20, 15:50
Here we go again...
Anybody ever had or know a guy who's had or even heard of any kind of issue ever with a Colt or LMT? Post it now so these highly reputable manufacturers too can be crossed off the list.
OP: Consider Qantas ARs -- they're the only one who've never had a problem. ;)
I read here of an LE6960-CCU being received with the rail's bolts loose (or possibly missing entirely).
Another one may have had its handguard not timed perfectly.
Yep, Colt is crap (except for mine), so the OP might as well buy some rocks, which are known to be quite reliable.
Blankstrap
02-05-20, 16:45
I read here of an LE6960-CCU being received with the rail's bolts loose (or possibly missing entirely).
Another one may have had its handguard not timed perfectly.
Yep, Colt is crap (except for mine), so the OP might as well buy some rocks, which are known to be quite reliable.Alas, Euro's had some LMT probs; cross that one of the list and let's lock this one up and call it a night. Tomorrow's another manufacture...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220122-LMT-Muzzle-Threads-not-to-spec-(too-long)-ETA-Garbage-ass-LMT
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?214077-A-lesson-on-QC-due-diligence-and-testing-before-modifying&highlight=
grizzlyblake
02-05-20, 20:55
I read here of an LE6960-CCU being received with the rail's bolts loose (or possibly missing entirely).
Another one may have had its handguard not timed perfectly.
Yep, Colt is crap (except for mine), so the OP might as well buy some rocks, which are known to be quite reliable.
Might have been my 6920 Trooper that arrived with the bolts in the rail snapped off.
Ya, I think that's the issue I'm mis-remembering.
Those were the good old days.
I say get a Colt if you don't have to pay a ridiculous price.
LMTs can be had for $875 or less right now.
But, Colt has provenance.
All I know is if I'm going to fly, I want to know what SW Aviator feels is a quality enough plane to get himself onto......
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-06-20, 00:22
SouthwestAviatior,
Here's what I don't get. You've started this same sort of discussion countless times here on M4C, and it's been locked each time. People have made countless posts giving you sound advice, yet you continue to wring your hands and worry and make these threads. In fact, you started this, now locked, thread last year:
Most Reliable AR15 for Self Defense
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?212244-Most-Reliable-AR15-for-Self-Defense
In post 2, the late/great Iraqgunz gives you the following awesome advice:
You really don't need to start a new thread everytime a new idea comes to light. You are overthinking this shit massively. Get your carbine set up, and spend some money on reputable training first.
Which of course, you have disregarded. You've started numerous threads over your fear that your 6920, which has never jammed, might one day be unreliable. You've started numerous threads about your worry that Daniel Defense might not be up to your rigorous needs. You've started numerous comparison threads about this/that manufacturer vs. Colt. You've started numerous threads over your fear that carbine gas is unreliable, or your fear that midlength isn't good enough.
So what we here at M4C see, is a member who spends all of his time worrying at his computer, and none of it shooting. Sure, you'll make claims that you shoot 2k rounds a month of whatever, but the proof is in the pudding. You would know what works and what doesn't if you actually shot your gun.
If Iraqgunz were alive, I think he'd probably have enough of your constant threads about the same thing. When I read through your threads, I tend to read the same advice over and over: stop worrying, shoot your gun, read more-post less. Why can't you do any of this? I'd love to see you become a productive and contributing member to this community, but what you are doing isn't it chief.
OP's thread history:
https://www.m4carbine.net/search.php?searchid=3557721
Since he's a Southwest pilot, maybe he could start a thread on "Boeing 737 Max vs Airbus A320."
Don't ever buy any Colt firearm. They are coated with a preservative before leaving the factory and if every little bit isn't removed, it mixes with Froglube and locks the weapon up tight. I've had this happen to three Colt ARs and two 1911s- one purchased back in the 90s. Although the 1911 had thousands of trouble free rounds through it and cleaned numerous times over the years, tiny traces of the Colt preservative remained. Enough that when Froglube was applied, it turned the Froglube into lubri-can't. Any firearm that won't run reliably on Froglube is junk!
Another problem is Colt's quality control and customer service. One Colt AR came from the factory without the promised vertical foregrip. When I called the factory to complain, the foregrip didn't arrive at my house until three whole days after I called! Before they'd agree to ship the missing part, I had to give them the serial number of the rifle and the name of the gun shop I purchased it from. Why do they need all that information?!?
Then there was the unstaked castlenut. If they can overlook something as obvious as castlenut staking, what else did they miss? I'm telling you- Colt was a trainwreck! I'm glad Freedom Group ceased production, shut the brand down and shipped that old horse to the glue factory!
Froglube! Haven't heard of that in awhile!
The OP probably has some sort of reliability anxiety from all the gas port and buffer threads that the autists who think they're fixing things with buffers and springs.
Uh yeah.
You'll likely never shoot it enough to know the difference.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-06-20, 09:45
There could still be some interesting facts here. LMT and Colt both do things differently to accomplish basically the same goal. There are some noteworthy differences.
The barrel not being parked under the gas block is often looked at like a detriment, it certainly isn't better. I think LMT does that because they have a totally different process of manufacturing and assembly. More than likely it's a negligible difference, and they save money finishing it once assembled. The money saved goes into other areas, like their fantastic barrels for example.
LMT uses straight pins instead of taper pins on the gas block. I don't know why but that's definitely another interesting detail that sets them apart. I'm sure they vet their products. Not to mention LMT manufacturers everything in house, Colt doesn't do that. That's pretty impressive to me.
The full auto non enhanced BCG from LMT (I have one) is purposefully designed to bounce spent cases off the shell deflector. Oftentimes people confuse this for an overgassed rifle.
There really is differences here regardless of OPs question. All the while reliability is top notch with both.
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I’m trying to decide between getting a new Colt 6920 or an LMT SPM16. Both are at a similar price point. From what I hear the LMT comes with a semi automatic bolt carrier and standard buffer and they don’t parkerize under the FSB. But on the other hand I see many talk about LMT as being a very high quality combat worthy rifle with government contracts. Anyone have any ideas on which is higher quality/would be the most reliable?
You've got analysis paralysis. None of these minor differences matter in the grand scheme, and you're forgetting the first rule of gun fighting: have a gun. I regret my part in keeping you from making a decision. I was only attempting to have a philosophical discussion on manufacturing quality assurance.
Both are solid choices, buy whatever you can get your hands on cheaper then shoot more and post less.
Don’t be an ASK - Hole. Put down the computer and pick up a rifle and go to the range. WTF
The LMT lawsuit against Colt is reason enough for me to stick with Colt.
lifebreath
02-06-20, 21:33
I dunno. I like Colt. I have some, but they have this roll mark that says Restricted to Law Enforcement Use Only, so I cant really shoot them, only look. I don’t know if they’re reliable. But they look cool with old school Trijicon, Surefire and DBAL-I.
So I took Joe Biden’s advice and got me a big old 10 gauge double barreled shotgun. Just seeing that big ol thing will scare away the bad guys, so I don’t even need to practice!
My advice: get a big old double barreled shotgun and save yourself all this angst.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-06-20, 22:01
My advice: get a big old double barreled shotgun and save yourself all this angst.
Great, now he'll be making Stoeger vs Franchi etc threads.
tony_tbone
02-06-20, 23:37
Sometimes you just have to jump in the water. As GK Chesterton said: “Anything worth doing is worth doing badly.” Using the “do it badly” motto gives you the courage to try new things even if you don't feel ready. It adds a little fun to everything and stops you from worrying too much about the outcome. It’s about doing it badly today and improving on it down the road. ;) So I suggest you simply buy any of the following asap: BCM, LMT, LWRC, Knights Armament, Giessele Super Duty, DDM4 or maybe a Noveske, POF, FN 15, or an HK MR556. As others have said you'll probably not shoot it enough to know the difference, but any of these should go bang if the apocalypse occurs. And you'll have so much money in your initial investment that you'll convince yourself over time that you made the best possible decision with which ever safe queen you finally drop bones on.
hotrodder636
02-07-20, 04:42
PTMcCain, is that you?....
Blankstrap
02-07-20, 06:53
Enabling OCD or feeding a troll. Pick one.
SW Aviator: we've had our fun at your expense, please continue to contribute to the forum, kind of taking heed to the comments made. You are kind of overthinking things. It really doesn't sound as if you are eating cat food to afford the purchases, so relax, buy what you want, and roll with it. Heck, I bought a Street Glide a couple years ago because my wife liked the color.
Best Wishes,
Dan
robbins290
02-07-20, 08:11
If you want a "very high quality combat worthy rifle" get a PSA freedom rifle.
Enabling OCD or feeding an attention whore. Pick one.
There...fixed.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-07-20, 12:18
So nobody wants to discuss the differences between these two rifles? This is almost as bad as Reddit
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So nobody wants to discuss the differences between these two rifles? This is almost as bad as Reddit
If you had read/comprehended the thread, you would know what is going on.
robbins290
02-07-20, 12:22
What is there to discuss? The OP called the difference between the rifles. And has been discussed a trillion times before on here.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-07-20, 12:31
There's not much information out there about the spm16. It seems like everyone assumes that it's exactly the same as a 6920 but manufactured by LMT.
Everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon here with negativity. I honestly think M4C is better than that, and we should take this as an opportunity to shed light. Raising the information bar for the whole community is important.
One day someone is going to Google search that gun and they'll be brought here, let's make sure they learn something.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-07-20, 12:42
There's not much information out there about the spm16. It seems like everyone assumes that it's exactly the same as a 6920 but manufactured by LMT.
Everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon here with negativity. I honestly think M4C is better than that, and we should take this as an opportunity to shed light. Raising the information bar for the whole community is important.
One day someone is going to Google search that gun and they'll be brought here, let's make sure they learn something.
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OK then, discuss.
If you had read/comprehended the thread, you would know what is going on.
Easy, killer. He’s new and not yet exhausted by these threads. Lets not run him off already. Also, he’s right. vvvvvv
Everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon here with negativity. I honestly think M4C is better than that, and we should take this as an opportunity to shed light. Raising the information bar for the whole community is important.
One day someone is going to Google search that gun and they'll be brought here, let's make sure they learn something.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Unfortunately, I really can’t say much in this comparison. I would go with the Colt, simply because its a known quantity to me, and I can likely get it cheaper. That said, I have a high degree of confidence in LMT. I’ve been rather impressed with their stuff that I own, and people I trust claim their complete weapons are GTG. I suspect OP would be well served with either of these. OP should shoot more and worry less. I’m glad that he’s anal, since he appears to have a connection to aviation, but the only thing I would be anal about with a rifle is safety. Shoot it till it breaks or groups open up, or whatever, and then try another one. Rattle can the dings.
To throw a monkey wrench in the original question, I like to roll my own these days, but would buy an SR-15 if buying new.
Southwest, If you can get a new 6920 at a fair price then buy the damn Colt and be done with the OCD nonsense. The damn rifle is damn reliable. I've had mine for nine years and it has never failed to function. It's not a high round count carbine since I shoot several others but I don't ever worry about it failing in some imaginary situation calling for mag dumps to ward off non existent hordes of bat shit crazy liberals, zombies, meth heads, post apocalypse roving bikers and all the other BS reasons people come up with.
I've run .223 55 gr. PMC, .223 55 gr. Federal AE, .223 55 gr. Black Hills, .223 62/64 gr. Speer Gold Dot SP, 5.56 55 gr. Magtech, 5.56 55 gr. Federal AE XM193, 5.56 62 gr. Federal M855, 5.56 69 gr. IMI, 5.56 77 gr. IMI OTM, 5.56 77 gr. Black Hills OTM, 5.56 77 gr. Magtech OTM. It has never failed to feed, fire, extract, and do it all over again. I don't worry about gas length systems, buffer spring noise, ejection patterns, creepy triggers, or balance point. I run good ammo, using good magazines, keep it well lubed, and change out the buffer spring when it get's down to 10 1/16". I acquire a sight picture, press the trigger and it fires. I'm a god damn internet forum K-mart commando badass. Nuff said! :neo:
So nobody wants to discuss the differences between these two rifles? This is almost as bad as Reddit
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PT McCain????
Southwest, If you can get a new 6920 at a fair price then buy the damn Colt and be done with the OCD nonsense. The damn rifle is damn reliable. I've had mine for nine years and it has never failed to function. It's not a high round count carbine since I shoot several others but I don't ever worry about it failing in some imaginary situation calling for mag dumps to ward off non existent hordes of bat shit crazy liberals, zombies, meth heads, post apocalypse roving bikers and all the other BS reasons people come up with.
I've run .223 55 gr. PMC, .223 55 gr. Federal AE, .223 55 gr. Black Hills, .223 62/64 gr. Speer Gold Dot SP, 5.56 55 gr. Magtech, 5.56 55 gr. Federal AE XM193, 5.56 62 gr. Federal M855, 5.56 69 gr. IMI, 5.56 77 gr. IMI OTM, 5.56 77 gr. Black Hills OTM, 5.56 77 gr. Magtech OTM. It has never failed to feed, fire, extract, and do it all over again. I don't worry about gas length systems, buffer spring noise, ejection patterns, creepy triggers, or balance point. I run good ammo, using good magazines, keep it well lubed, and change out the buffer spring when it get's down to 10 1/16". I acquire a sight picture, press the trigger and it fires. I'm a god damn internet forum K-mart commando badass. Nuff said! :neo:
He already bought a 6920 in January of last year, yet here is is fretting over buying a second.
hotrodder636
02-08-20, 20:17
LOL, see post #26.
PT McCain????
LOL, see post #26.
Yeah works been keeping me busy, lol.
halfmoonclip
02-11-20, 21:12
Hey, the Gummint was kind enough to give me a Colt fifty years ago; I didn't have to run thru' the jungle with it, but I did shoot the hell out of it every chance I got (range detail...never return unfired ammo ;) ), and it worked all the time, dry and dirty (heavy lube wasn't a thing back then), never a bobble.
A buddy just went thru' this issue, because Colts weren't available. He'd like to drive me nuts worrying about it. He ended up with an FN on the advice of a local shop; it met the usual tests (MPC bolt, staked carrier key bolts, etc.), and seems nicely made.
Avoid cheap rifles, and shoot the one you get.
Moon
So much hate in this thread.
- OP hate
- LMT hates Colt
- Mistiwolf hates froglube
- Froglube hates Colt
obviously both Colt and LMT will serve the op well.
If you want a "very high quality combat worthy rifle" get a PSA freedom rifle.
I'm assuming this is sarcasm. PSA and "very high quality combat worthy rifle" is an oxymoron.
PSA can eat a d**k after their CEO went on a podcast, admitted they were hiring unqualified people off of the street to assemble their rifles, and let those rifles go out the door with known issues.
Blankstrap
02-18-20, 14:01
I'm assuming this is sarcasm. PSA and "very high quality combat worthy rifle" is an oxymoron.
PSA can eat a d**k after their CEO went on a podcast, admitted they were hiring unqualified people off of the street to assemble their rifles, and let those rifles go out the door with known issues.Whoa! When this? Linky? That's pretty significant...
Whoa! When this? Linky? That's pretty significant...
Link to podcast was posted on the forum. Wasn't that long ago. Both kids down with flu so so not enough time to search right now.
But, it's out there for all to hear.
Whoa! When this? Linky? That's pretty significant...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?219917-Psa-uppers/page8
Post #76
I thought you were getting another Daniel defense.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KSB6lZfHL0k%2FUX-itoraKeI%2FAAAAAAAALh0%2Fto-I16Zl_84%2Fs1600%2FRicky-Gervais.gif&f=1&nofb=1
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?219917-Psa-uppers/page8
Post #76
Direct link:
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/6/f/2/6f2abcc55508482f/ARP_-_Palmetto_State_Armory.mp3?c_id=34746278&cs_id=34746278&expiration=1582141255&hwt=d8bd5983e0c793a5cb673aaf816f0084
Link to podcast was posted on the forum. Wasn't that long ago. Both kids down with flu so so not enough time to search right now.
But, it's out there for all to hear.
I hope your kids are getting better.
I found the podcast and actually listened to the whole thing, which is rare for me.
I probably misunderstood, but my impression was when they talked of temp employees they were talking about their shipping department during the holidays.
At about 1:01 of the 1:52 long podcast I started jotting down notes. If you have read any of my posts about PSA you know that I'm not a fanboi per se, it's just that I hate folks who make statements which they can't/won't substantiate, or just flat make up. Because of this mindset there were a couple of things that I jotted down, with perhaps the biggest being:
FN barrels - 'they aren't seconds' 'they don't drill the gas ports to our specs' 'we don't tell them hey make these over-gassed'
They admitted that the growth of the company, which was a happenstance of starting just as President Obama was elected, had caused them some issues with QC and shipping in the past.
As an example, it was stated that they are shipping 1500 uppers a week and can make 2,000 (if I got that right). During the craze after President Obama was elected, they were making and shipping as fast as they could and QC wasn't as good.
At this point the volume of sales to repair ratio has been steadily dropping due to the improved QC measures which have been put into place over the last several years - when the new CEO came on board.
They have a 24 to 48 hour response time for emails due to volume, which they and the folks on the podcast indicated was within industry norms. One problem is that folks often send numerous emails within that window, and that leads to delays as they try to sort through things.
Currently they are averaging seven days for repairs.
One of the problems they mentioned was the desire to have a stable workforce rather than hiring folks during Holiday rushes and then laying them off during the down periods.
Seriously, if you have time to listen to the podcast which was linked I think you'll find it interesting and informative.
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