View Full Version : PSA Range policy
Don’t forget to bring your “tax stamp” if you shoot at PSA, lest you be asked to leave. Range policy, they say.
Who?
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SeriousStudent
02-07-20, 19:13
That's fascinating. Are any members of their staff officials of the US Treasury, BATFE or IRS? I thought those were the folks qualified to examine a tax document.
I'm not someone that frequently hollars about "muh rights!" but I dislike showing showing documents with PII (Personally Identifiable Information) to Cletus, Jethro or Lurlene.
Their range and their rules, I guess. I do carry a photocopy of the associated Form 1 or Form 4, but I do not enjoy displaying them to anyone without appropriate government credentials.
SeriousStudent
02-07-20, 19:14
Who?
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I would venture to guess he is referring to Palmetto State Armory.
Yessir, their range, their rules. But not posted anywhere that I’m aware of. The Jr ATF agent enforcing them walked away from the rental machinegun he was supposed to be supervising to ask for my papers.
I’ve been a member, shooting there 4-8 times a month for two years, and blown a eff ton of money on ammo there. I’ve shot my NFA weapons there many times, but apparently this is the first time I’ve been caught.
I would venture to guess he is referring to Palmetto State Armory.
Figured as much but it read as Public Service Announcement
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Eurodriver
02-07-20, 20:06
What if you didn’t have one? They ask you to leave?
What if you didn’t have one? They ask you to leave?
They did. I had it, but declined to show it to the kid. Mainly because I was taken aback by him asking if I had a “tax stamp” with me. So they asked me to leave.
I think the reason this has so much sand in my vagina, is that it reminds me of the AWB days, when a HK91 made me persona non grata at the Fudd range. And we’ve had a couple discussions lately where PSA sells their stuff so cheap because they are trying to be some pillar of gun rights.
This is the wrong place to be whining about this. I’m going to have a discussion with a manager on Monday, and at least find out if its really their policy, or if its one employee making up rules. Mods, this adds no useful info to the NFA forum other than slamming a company (which recently quit selling NFA items, BTW); feel free to lock it or move to GD as you see fit.
PatrioticDisorder
02-08-20, 06:19
They did. I had it, but declined to show it to the kid. Mainly because I was taken aback by him asking if I had a “tax stamp” with me. So they asked me to leave.
I think the reason this has so much sand in my vagina, is that it reminds me of the AWB days, when a HK91 made me persona non grata at the Fudd range. And we’ve had a couple discussions lately where PSA sells their stuff so cheap because they are trying to be some pillar of gun rights.
This is the wrong place to be whining about this. I’m going to have a discussion with a manager on Monday, and at least find out if its really their policy, or if its one employee making up rules. Mods, this adds no useful info to the NFA forum other than slamming a company (which recently quit selling NFA items, BTW); feel free to lock it or move to GD as you see fit.
That’s some real goofball stuff right there, reading this makes me never want to purchase anything from PSA again, not that I buy much of anything from them (maybe ammo here and there). I was kicked out of an indoor range in Palm Beach county when I was there visiting my father for shooting my M-16 and M-11/9 at their range by the owner, total fudd nonsense. I was actually wrapping up shooting as this happened, but I’d never go back there for anything. This is a range that sells suppressors and SBRs mind you. I cannot stand the fudd mentality.
Brasilnuts
02-08-20, 07:04
So you let some “Jr ATF agent” alone run you off without talking to management on the spot?
My local outdoor range doesn’t allow full auto, says it’s to keep the peace with the residents that live close to the range. There is a DOE range on the other side of the same ridge that we use for a back stop, I guess they didn’t get the memo. Fudds gonna Fudd.
So you let some “Jr ATF agent” alone run you off without talking to management on the spot?
My local outdoor range doesn’t allow full auto,
I have a very little patience. I usually get better results by walking away and revisiting an issue after I cool down and contemplate exactly what annoyed me about a situation. Otherwise I say a bunch of crazy shit.
For what its worth, PSA does not allow personally owned machineguns either, as a policy, and that is stated in their orientation video. However, I’ve not seen anything posted or stated about SBR’s or silencers, which they sold until about a year ago.
SeriousStudent
02-08-20, 09:32
......
This is the wrong place to be whining about this. I’m going to have a discussion with a manager on Monday, and at least find out if its really their policy, or if its one employee making up rules. Mods, this adds no useful info to the NFA forum other than slamming a company (which recently quit selling NFA items, BTW); feel free to lock it or move to GD as you see fit.
https://i.imgur.com/hGBg2GC.gif
I have a similar philosophy regarding "just leaving". It allows me to do some research on the company or location, and return with a portfolio of facts to support my position.
I do calmly ask the person or persons their name, and take a picture of the location with my cell phone, so I have a date/time stamp. That frequently results in a look of unease from the person I am dealing with.
I'd be fascinated to know the number of times law enforcement has "swooped down" on a facility where someone was utilizing an NFA device, and hollered "Book 'em Dano!" as they took them to the hoosegow. I honestly do not recall any.
This is the wrong place to be whining about this. I’m going to have a discussion with a manager on Monday, and at least find out if its really their policy, or if its one employee making up rules. Mods, this adds no useful info to the NFA forum other than slamming a company (which recently quit selling NFA items, BTW); feel free to lock it or move to GD as you see fit.
Let's let it ride, and the chips fall where they do. There's a difference between slamming and informing. This topic comes up from time to time with other venues as well, so you're not the first to experience it.
Wait...they rent machine guns but you must prove *you* have a tax stamp to shoot it? That's just bizarre.
If it’s official policy then I will retract my commendation of their of their donations to the VCDL.
Hopefully it’s just some bitchmsde employee trying to get his rocks off and will be addressed accordingly.
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If it’s official policy then I will retract my commendation of their of their donations to the VCDL. Hopefully it’s just some bitchmsde employee trying to get his rocks off and will be addressed accordingly.
This makes zero sense and I bet it was just some over-zealous employee talking nonsense.
I've shot my suppressed SBR at their Greenville range without issue a few times without issues. Admittedly, it's probably been a year since I've been there.
everready73
02-10-20, 20:20
Did you talk to a manager. I am guessing the ro overstepped here.
Try to contact Josiah. He is one of the owners and will address it or confirm if policy. If you can't call in and get him you can message him on TOS if you post there...
Username to im is palmettostatearmory I believe. They have an industry section he would see a post in as well
My local indoor range tried that when they first opened. Lasted about a week.
I've shot my suppressed SBR at their Greenville range without issue a few times without issues. Admittedly, it's probably been a year since I've been there. Same; this “enforcement” seems new, at least for me, but others have encountered it also.
Did you talk to a manager. I am guessing the ro overstepped here.
Try to contact Josiah. He is one of the owners and will address it or confirm if policy. If you can't call in and get him you can message him on TOS if you post there...
Username to im is palmettostatearmory I believe. They have an industry section he would see a post in as well
I don’t post on TOS. Maybe I’ll reset my password there and try it. There’s actually a thread there on this subject, sort of.
So, I called yesterday. They say its an official policy, but its not posted anywhere physically and not mentioned in their orientation video or online range FAQ’s, which I reviewed thoroughly. While on the phone, I got the number and email for the “rangemaster” said to be responsible for the rule, and will follow up with him this week. Its a Columbia number. PM me if you would also like to have it.
When asked what their policy is for guys who never possess a form 4, such as someone who got issued a suppressor by a company or agency, he said its a “case by case basis”.
I also attempted to find a list of rules online, which made me aware that random enforcement of unwritten rules is a problem that others have had also. It seems that Tripadvisor is a thing for rifle ranges(?). I know I’d be looking for a refund if I paid by the session; as a member, its just an annoying inconvenience. I understand that its their range, and some of their rules exist to stop mouthbreathers from Darwin’ing themselves or harming someone else, or damaging stuff, but using a commercially manufactured silencer would seem to simply be polite.
I will post again after I speak with the “rangemaster”. Until then, the key takeaway if you shoot there is to be aware that there is a rule.
Hooboy! If this is official policy and how they're handling things without it being written into the range rules, they're leaving themselves open to controversy. It's a foolish way to handle things.
It should also be brought to management's attention that Junior G-Man walking away and leaving a machine-gun unsupervised is a violation of federal regulations.
It should also be brought to management's attention that Junior G-Man walking away and leaving a machine-gun unsupervised is a violation of federal regulations.
+1 Assuming an injury, an ambulance chaser would have a field day with that one. If their excuse for this rule is safety, then major fail.
Same; this “enforcement” seems new, at least for me, but others have encountered it also.
I don’t post on TOS. Maybe I’ll reset my password there and try it. There’s actually a thread there on this subject, sort of.
So, I called yesterday. They say its an official policy, but its not posted anywhere physically and not mentioned in their orientation video or online range FAQ’s, which I reviewed thoroughly. While on the phone, I got the number and email for the “rangemaster” said to be responsible for the rule, and will follow up with him this week. Its a Columbia number. PM me if you would also like to have it.
When asked what their policy is for guys who never possess a form 4, such as someone who got issued a suppressor by a company or agency, he said its a “case by case basis”.
I also attempted to find a list of rules online, which made me aware that random enforcement of unwritten rules is a problem that others have had also. It seems that Tripadvisor is a thing for rifle ranges(?). I know I’d be looking for a refund if I paid by the session; as a member, its just an annoying inconvenience. I understand that its their range, and some of their rules exist to stop mouthbreathers from Darwin’ing themselves or harming someone else, or damaging stuff, but using a commercially manufactured silencer would seem to simply be polite.
I will post again after I speak with the “rangemaster”. Until then, the key takeaway if you shoot there is to be aware that there is a rule.
Yea that’s horseshit
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That's fascinating. Are any members of their staff officials of the US Treasury, BATFE or IRS? I thought those were the folks qualified to examine a tax document.
I'm not someone that frequently hollars about "muh rights!" but I dislike showing showing documents with PII (Personally Identifiable Information) to Cletus, Jethro or Lurlene.
Their range and their rules, I guess. I do carry a photocopy of the associated Form 1 or Form 4, but I do not enjoy displaying them to anyone without appropriate government credentials.
In OH, its illegal locally unless it follows NFA laws, so it easier to just show the police, rather than making them call an atf agent.
The times police showed up for machineguns, they viewed the forms, wrote on the report that they verified legality, and went on their way while we continued.
The biggest issue I see with this is that PSA doesnt have it posted anywhere.
Don’t forget to bring your “tax stamp” if you shoot at PSA, lest you be asked to leave. Range policy, they say.
What the commie f is that all about?!
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I wouldn't have made it passed the "orientation video". You need a better place to shoot. Public ranges are asshat magnets.
All of my stamps stay at home, all of the time. They aren’t permission slips, they’re quasi receipts. I don’t carry proof that I paid the taxes on anything else I own and unless they’re a tax agent, they don’t have any business reviewing my tax documents.
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