View Full Version : 6920 question sort of
I have a question about Colt 6920's, which I'm not sure fits here..but here goes..
I already have 2 but am thinking of adding a third..I'm not really looking to drop another $1600 or so without selling something else or trading..so I'm considering selling an Arsenal milled M7R which is NIB unfired and picking up another 6920..I know this is a AR15 board, but does anyone have any thoughts on where the 6920 market is headed vs. milled AK's..
BTW... I already have 2 other M7A1R's mileld Arsenal's so either way I'm covered..
Any thoughts?
Why would you need a 3rd 6920?
I don't even have one. :confused:
The AK market is probably only going to get stronger (higher prices) as well.
I'd just build an AR for a lot less than the price that the factory Colts are commanding.
Just my opinion! :p
It isn't a question of "need" sometime...just want..
I enjoy the Colt rifles and they certainly are going up in value..my question is mainly is about future value and appreciation..Just trying to get an idea as I know in my case I enjoy both types of rifles
Where is the market going on 6920's...any guesses..
Where is the market going on 6920's...any guesses..
It's anyone's guess. If a ban comes, they'll go thru the roof. It'll also depend on production. Strong demand seems to be obvious.
Check the AK prices. Those are soaring too. Keep the AK and save for the Colt. The day may come when you can get your hands on 7.62 but not .223. Good to have rifles in different chamberings.
I have other milled Arsenal AK's so in thought giving up the M7R doesn't bother me...just trying to get a handle on if the general thought is the 6920's will calm down once this initial "wave" of people buying them runs out..or slows down
I'm looking on GB and other sites and seeing the prices seem to be hanging around $1600-1700 for 6920's..yet the milled Arsenal stuff is about the same..and is currently discontinued and "rarer"
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 14:22
My opinion is that Arsenal, Inc. best days are behind them - they will never make guns as good as their original "no ban" SAM7 and SAM5 series ever again.
I agree the "no ban" milled rifles..which this is one of them..were simply the best AK's of the current crop..IMO the only ones nicer or inline were the SA85M's Kassnar imported (I have U/F #100), the Yugo rifles, and some of the Poly's (Legends mainly)
I know the 6920 is popular and all and I really like the AR's..but I'm wondering if their increased popularity will subside some as compared to the milled AK's
Any ideas if Colt is releasing more 6920's
My opinion is that Arsenal, Inc. best days are behind them - they will never make guns as good as their original "no ban" SAM7 and SAM5 series ever again.
Interesting... What's comparable nowadays?
I'm not sure if anything is comparable to the milled Arsenals...they are really that nice and IMO much nicer than any of the stamped rifles..short of the ones I mentioned..
IMO the milled rifles are sort of the 6920's of the AR world..which is why I'm open to a possible trade..although I'm on the fence as I see 6920's on the market for less than $1600 for NIB rifles..granted they are selling..but comparable to M7A1R or M7..there are tons of 6920's out there.
I'm wondering if the initial hype and surge is sort of plaining out...
IMO the milled Arsenals have been steadly moving up vs..spiking..so I'm wondering what has longer term investment potential
Here is a pic for those who asked..
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/ls6man/036-1.jpg
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 16:20
Interesting... What's comparable nowadays?
Nothing.
stronghold
11-20-08, 17:13
i recently sold an early SAM7 to fund buying a 6920. the guy i sold it to has 26 AKs, and had the same attitude that i have...the milled arsenals are certainly the nicest AK around, but in the end they don't shoot any better than any other properly built AK. all of my guns are working guns, and although i like the idea of they gaining value, i don't stick them in the back of the safe and leave them there. KCI, AZresponse, and Rifle Dynamics all build AKs that will hang with the milled arsenals performance-wise. and the fact that these custom builds are built as hard working guns and kind-of lends to the thought that the milled receiver is just a novelty.
as for long term investment value, it's anyone's guess.
i had the arsenal for a little over a year and in that time it went up maybe $200. the colt i paid $1250 for about 3 weeks ago is going for around $1700.
just my .02
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 17:20
KCI, AZresponse, and Rifle Dynamics all build AKs that will hang with the milled arsenals performance-wise. and the fact that these custom builds are built as hard working guns and kind-of lends to the thought that the milled receiver is just a novelty.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Krebs build AK's that are more novelty than anyone else, and RD bills his AK's as "fighting guns"... sort of a novelty if you ask me.
stronghold
11-20-08, 18:43
your opinion of krebs i can see. but i have run one side by side with my arsenal and the only difference was the krebs trigger was lighter.
how is a fighting gun a novelty. to me a novelty is something unique or an item that people have, just to have.
aren't fighting guns that what you guys strive for with the whole TDP colt, noveske, lmt being a tier above the rest argument?
I am really on the fence with either rifle..I can see arguments for either being worth more and since I have both I'm not torn in either direction..It would be cool to get another 6920 as I think they are way more versatile as you can swapp uppers, etc...but an AK is an AK and the milled Arsenals are the best IMO..
I'm headed to Chantilly this Sat if anyone wants to meet up there..supposed to be a great show
Greg
Milled Arsenal SA M-7 A1... I bought mine for $650.00 :p
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/zombie92272/000_0638.jpg
yeah they used to sell NIB for less than $900..when they were made..nice M7A1R..
What were 6920's going forright before the election....I used to have 4 of them including a 6922 (1/9) and sold them off only to buy 2 more over the summer..
I've personally only sold 2 guns in my life and regretted both. I just won't do it anymore personally.
Does a "chart" exist for AK's anywhere?
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 19:35
Does a "chart" exist for AK's anywhere?
lol
It would be 300 pages long.
lol
It would be 300 pages long.
It'll give rob_s something to do for the next few day at least..... :D
Is there a milspec standard set of features like the AR platform?
The AK specs are I believe still a state secret in Russia...
There are so many aK variants it would be almost impossible to list them...The milled rifles like this Arsenal are considered some of the best.
IMO the milled Arsenals are akin to the top of the line AR's like the 6920..which is why for me it is tempting to find a trade..
Are the 6920's still ran in batches..I had a 6450 at one point and knew they were
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 20:25
how is a fighting gun a novelty
It's not - but how is a Rifle Dynamics AK "built for FIGHT!ing" but a SAR-1 not?
stronghold
11-20-08, 20:35
It's not
RD bills his AK's as "fighting guns"... sort of a novelty if you ask me.
your words
how is a Rifle Dynamics AK "built for FIGHT!ing" but a SAR-1 not?
never said that sar1s weren't builty for fighting. just that some of the custom guns, RD, AZresponse put that little extra effort in to make the guns function and perform the to the best of the design ability. same goes for colt, noveske, and lmt. you can call a bushy a fighting gun, the DEA uses rock rivers, but it's colt, noveske and lmt that put that extra effort in to make sure their rifles function and perform the way they were designed to.
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 20:40
RD, AZresponse put that little extra effort in to make the guns function and perform the to the best of the design ability
How so?
What do they do that makes them perform better than an AK assembled at Izhmash or CUGIR? How do they function better?
stronghold
11-20-08, 20:53
OK. aside from the fact that you said RD builds his AKs as "fighting guns" and called it a novelty. then turned around in the next post and said that fighting guns are not novelties.....
i consider someone who takes the time to build a rifle to your preferences and hand fit parts in the process with great attention to detail, as putting in the extra effort.
YMMV
Jay Cunningham
11-20-08, 21:06
You brought it up but you are being evasive now. Let me ask you a simple question: of the builders that you just described, what exactly do they do to the average Kalashnikov rifle that makes it more reliable or more accurate?
You said that the AK's built by these guys were "built as hard working guns" ... and I am asking compared to what? The non-hard working AK's?
You said that they "hand fit parts in the process"... well, that describes how ALL AK's are built. They require a lot of effort and a lot of hand-fitting and detail work to build.
So the reason I said it was sort of a novelty is because the "we build AK's specifically for warriors" thing sounds more like a marketing gimmick to me.
will a Durakote job (grey) hurt the value of my rifle :confused: since they are going up in price & all'
stronghold
11-20-08, 21:23
asking what they do over any other AK manufacturer is like asking what les baer does to the 1911 over any other manufacturer. how can you not appreciate the benefits of skilled gunsmiths and hand fitting, over assembly line mfg and hired hands that don't care about he end product?
"hand fit parts in the process"... well, that describes how ALL AK's are built.
if you believe that a wasr10 is built in the same fashion as a RD or AZresponse or even krebs gun, well then, i guess we can agree to disagree.
as for more accurate, i never mentioned accuracy. i believe i stated early on that even the arsenals, which i believe to be some of the best examples of AKs, shoot no better than anything else.
my apologies to the OP for getting off-topic.
for a safe queen i think the colt has a bit more following than the arsenal. a fella once told me that most AK shooters don't appreciate the refinements of the arsenal, but i guess the same could be said of AR shooters and the colt.
No apologies needed...I like it when the threads have some fluidity...
As far as refinishing a rifle...whether Gunkote or something else...to the purist.."yes" it hurts re-sale...but it all depends on the rifle...as some of the Arsenal SLR105's (stamped AK74 clones) had horrible factory finishes...and it was well documented they did...so re-finishing if done properly..leaving crisp stampings, markings, etc..shouldn't hurt value..
I would agree most AK guys are more shooters, and as such the Colt probably has more of an universal demand...which is why I think I'm going to look for a 6920 this weekend and see what can be worked out..
Is anyone else going to the Chantilly, VA (NOVA) gun show this weekend?
Greg
Jay Cunningham
11-21-08, 08:27
asking what they do over any other AK manufacturer is like asking what les baer does to the 1911 over any other manufacturer. how can you not appreciate the benefits of skilled gunsmiths and hand fitting, over assembly line mfg and hired hands that don't care about he end product?
So you are comparing a semi-custom 1911 to a Kalashnikov?
Ok.
Look, we all have our preferences and if you want to buy an AK from one of those guys you mentioned that's fine. I'm sure they all can assemble a parts kits quite well. But I am not buying into the marketing hype of "these AK's are specifically built for hard use by warriors" etc. That's all.
Jay Cunningham
11-21-08, 08:29
I would agree most AK guys are more shooters
I'm not sure I agree with that statement. Certainly a lot more shooters have taken an interest in the platform in the last couple of years.
stronghold
11-21-08, 09:01
So you are comparing a semi-custom 1911 to a Kalashnikov?
.
talk about being evasive.
first you twist my statement around and then neglect to answer the question asked.
i never compared an AK to a semi custom 1911.
1911s are built from parts. the same parts go into all 1911s (albeit some parts are better than others). it's up to the gunsmith building the weapon to have an intricate knowledge and understanding of how the platform works in order to build a quality weapon. the same applies to any platform.
so again i ask,
do you not appreciate the benefits of skilled gunsmiths and hand fitting, over assembly line mfg and hired hands that don't care about the end product?
I have a couple new in bags 6920's and would love to add a nice AK to my collection, but have not had the opportunity and with prices the way they are, I think I will keep my 6920's. I would have to guess that the Colts will hold their value more in the future with the way things are currently.
I would love one of these elusive AK's for sure.
I'm not sure I agree with that statement. Certainly a lot more shooters have taken an interest in the platform in the last couple of years.
IMO if you took the majority of AK owners and asked them they would say "shooters" vs. "collectors" they would say "shooters" There are some guys who will pay and collect top end AK's..milled Arsenals, Legends, Kassnar rifles, the pre-ban Yugo's..but IMO the majority of AK owners just like the look, reliability of the design, and don't see paying 2-3x what a WASR is going for..just to have a nicer product...
IMO there is no point in having an AK built by some "guru" either.. When it comes to AK's I personally can't see how someone is going to make the design more reliable and certainly AK's aren't tack drivers..nor should they be..So what is the point...I dare not say a WASR which is in specs and a Krebs rifle will give the same performance and reliabilty...The difference is the Krebs rifle will be more collectible I would guess over a WASR..but IMO I wouldn't buy one and certainly wouldn't buy one over an Arsenal rifle....
Jay Cunningham
11-21-08, 09:25
IMO if you took the majority of AK owners and asked them they would say "shooters" vs. "collectors" they would say "shooters" There are some guys who will pay and collect top end AK's..milled Arsenals, Legends, Kassnar rifles, the pre-ban Yugo's..but IMO the majority of AK owners just like the look, reliability of the design, and don't see paying 2-3x what a WASR is going for..just to have a nicer product...
You forgot a category: assimilators. :D
You nailed the collectors but we may have different definitions of "shooter." Lots of guys used to buy up relatively cheap AK's but not necessarily really shoot them. Think about it - if you own 14 AK's how many rounds do you actually put through each one individually in a year?
When I say shooter I am more referring to a guy who trains with AR's and then decides to pick up a WASR and puts 4,000 to 6,000 rounds through it in a year.
IMO there is no point in having an AK built by some "guru" either.. When it comes to AK's I personally can't see how someone is going to make the design more reliable and certainly AK's aren't tack drivers..nor should they be..So what is the point...I dare not say a WASR which is in specs and a Krebs rifle will give the same performance and reliabilty...The difference is the Krebs rifle will be more collectible I would guess over a WASR..but IMO I wouldn't buy one and certainly wouldn't buy one over an Arsenal rifle....
I am tracking with you 100% here - and believe me, I own AK's built by "gurus"... A highly skilled 1911 gunsmith will be able to tweak the accuracy and reliability of the gun, whereas with the exception of fixing some major issue there aren't really any accuracy or reliability tweaks to speak of for an AK. You can make them look a helluva lot nicer, though.
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