View Full Version : Battle ready Ar15
Is there an ar that is out of the box battle ready, minus optic of course. My question pertains mostly to durability.
I don’t want to start a brand war. My question is purely for entertainment purposes.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-10-20, 20:14
I guess you could go with the FN military collector series
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Blankstrap
02-10-20, 20:14
Oh boy...
Welcome to the forum. Suggest you do some searching -- in many threads this has been discussed, explicitly or implicitly. Notice the manufacturers that get repeat nods: Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Sionics, Sons of Liberty...these and a few more are "battle ready" out of the box.
You anticipating some battles?
I’ll keep searching.
Not anticipating any battle other than with my wife when she sees how much ammo I’m buying.
I've personally used Colt, BCM, Sionics, and Black River Tactical's complete rifle, uppers, and components with good results. I prefer Sionics and Black River Tactical over most of what out there.
I stick with 6920s. Have been doing me right for over a decade.
Seriously, I’m not the expert here. But I don’t know why you wouldn’t revert automatically to the gun that is actually used by the military: a Colt 6920 or 6921.
You can go crazy and get LMT.
But that’s only if you really want to go to battle. Otherwise, the forum is full of advice that mirrors what others have already said in this thread.
Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, Sionics, Knight's, FN, LaRue and SOGW all make AR's (I'm sure there are more) that are probably more battle ready than you are :haha:
I would add Centurion to the list.
I'll stay out of this thread, but will say this -
I almost thought this was another thread started by SouthwestAviator.
I'm referring to this: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220706-LMT-SPM16-or-Colt-LE6920&p=2812063#post2812063
vicious_cb
02-10-20, 23:35
Is there an ar that is out of the box battle ready, minus optic of course. My question pertains mostly to durability.
I don’t want to start a brand war. My question is purely for entertainment purposes.
What is battle ready? Like a thunderdome sort of battle where 2 ARs enter, one AR leaves?
turnburglar
02-11-20, 11:42
What is battle ready? Like a thunderdome sort of battle where 2 ARs enter, one AR leaves?
If there is any other kinda battle, I would like to know?
To answer the OP's question: you could get a KAC. Or Hodge rifle. Nothing else will work any better than 6mm.
I would say most reputable brands are good to go out of the box. But are you not factoring things like slings, grips, lights, etc.? I know you stated you were excluding optics. What about sights? Some rifles come with sights and some do not. So if sights are required, that would narrow it down.
BCM is my first choice.
Everyone has already covered the main brands adequately.
I would just add, you could pay more and get a KAC, LMT, DD, etc and get a great rifle, but if I were you, i would get a Colt 6920 or BCM and spend the extra money on ammo, training, mags, sling, optic etc.
Not sure what your budget is, but spending the extra money on good training will probably serve you best.
robbins290
02-11-20, 13:03
For those who said Colt. Can you even get new ones still? and if you can, are the prices over inflated?
If i were to buy a new rifle like what the OP asked about. I would go FN military collector.
I say no. You usually have to pick your light and sling.. and often a pic rail of some kind.
Blankstrap
02-11-20, 15:54
For those who said Colt. Can you even get new ones still? and if you can, are the prices over inflated?Although there's still much debate about whether Colt has temporarily halted civilian AR sales to focus on contract fulfillment and let existing supply sell off during the current glut, or if it's a "soft" permanent concession to gun control interests, the big ballyhoo that there are no Colts anywhere hasn't held up to simple searches save for a couple weeks after the announcement when folks panic bought.
Clyde Armory, for instance, has had several versions of the 6920 for sale at reasonable prices for some time now, just sitting. Kind of lends merit to Colt's assessment of the current AR market.
I’m mostly interested in seeing if someone with experience would feel comfortable taking a civilian ar on deployment. If so what brand would you trust your life to out of the box? Not really interested optics, slings, grips, Etc.
The only ARs I own are 6920s for that exact reason.
They work.
robbins290
02-11-20, 18:57
I would take any of the top tier ones. That meant certain specs. Of course. Tho i do not see the need of 4150 barrel steel with a semi auto. If i had a full auto and uncle sam was paying for the ammo. Then i could see a need for it.
New out of the box today? In no particular order; SLGW, BCM, Sionics, DD, Centurion.
everready73
02-11-20, 20:38
I would take any of the top tier ones. That meant certain specs. Of course. Tho i do not see the need of 4150 barrel steel with a semi auto. If i had a full auto and uncle sam was paying for the ammo. Then i could see a need for it.
Pretty much a non factor as every duty level gun is going to have a 4150 cmv barrel unless it would have stainless (recce style) for some reason. When vendors like PSA are using 4150 barrels. I believe Ruger, S&w sport and lower tier brands like dpms are the only ones using 4140 these days
MikhailBarracuda91
02-11-20, 20:49
I'm trying to finish my "battle" ready m16A4 but I can't find a legitimate A2 stock kit.
The best I've found is the Colt ones from specialized armament but I'm not prepared to pay $250 they also have a Colt A2 stock kit with an extruded receiver extension for $135.
I'm having a tough time any help would be appreciated. Gotta stay battle ready ya know
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I’m mostly interested in seeing if someone with experience would feel comfortable taking a civilian ar on deployment. If so what brand would you trust your life to out of the box? Not really interested optics, slings, grips, Etc.
Poke around the forum for awhile. Search it. Use an outside search engine like yahoo or google to search it.
The answer is yes. But I don't think you have a clue what these rifles are or how they work or what's what, or you wouldn't ask about a "civilian AR" seemingly inferring that it would be any lesser than the mil (you can build a nicer and arguably better rifle "civilian" than general issue in the mill)
Relevant to your interests as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ghQZ1_s5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ghQZ1_s5Q
everready73
02-11-20, 20:58
I'm trying to finish my "battle" ready m16A4 but I can't find a legitimate A2 stock kit.
The best I've found is the Colt ones from specialized armament but I'm not prepared to pay $250 they also have a Colt A2 stock kit with an extruded receiver extension for $135.
I'm having a tough time any help would be appreciated. Gotta stay battle ready ya know
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Shark arms has FN A2 kits for $115. He also gets a lot of Colt stuff. Give Chris a call sure he can set you up. They are gtg I have bought a good bit from him. Sometimes a wait on Colt stuff but everything I bought was as described
https://sharkarms.com/new-arrivals
Arms unlimited would be a place to check as well. Mixed feedback on them as a vendor but the few orders I have placed have been fine. Thoroughbred armament carries Colt as well I believe but no experience with them
MikhailBarracuda91
02-12-20, 05:09
Shark arms has FN A2 kits for $115. He also gets a lot of Colt stuff. Give Chris a call sure he can set you up. They are gtg I have bought a good bit from him. Sometimes a wait on Colt stuff but everything I bought was as described
https://sharkarms.com/new-arrivals
Arms unlimited would be a place to check as well. Mixed feedback on them as a vendor but the few orders I have placed have been fine. Thoroughbred armament carries Colt as well I believe but no experience with themThanks man! I emailed shark arms. Hopefully they have it in stock [emoji1696]
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
The_War_Wagon
02-12-20, 08:01
I’ll keep searching.
Not anticipating any battle other than with my wife when she sees how much ammo I’m buying.
40mm ammo cans can easily be disguised as footstools.
My wife just can't figure out why I have 9 footstools in my office. :rolleyes:
Colt 6920
^This^
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
40mm ammo cans can easily be disguised as footstools.
My wife just can't figure out why I have 9 footstools in my office. :rolleyes:
Dude, how do explain the rather heavy "footstools"...?
I'm not going into battle anytime soon, still fit, would answer the call but past my prime. But I want a extremely reliable, durable, resistant to abuse and reasonably accurate rifle. I read these boards and bought a Colt for my first AR. Since then my tastes have refined [a little] and I wanted a rifle that more closely mirrored my tastes. But I stayed with proven performers when assembling the parts necessary. So my current favorite is a Colt, LMT, BCM, Geissele, JP Enterprises combo that does what I want it to do.
robbins290
02-12-20, 09:19
60855
I "was" sick of the 40MM cans kicking around so i made a shelf for them.
40mm ammo cans can easily be disguised as footstools.
My wife just can't figure out why I have 9 footstools in my office. :rolleyes:
Brilliant!
Dude, how do explain the rather heavy "footstools"...?
I'm not going into battle anytime soon, still fit, would answer the call but past my prime. But I want a extremely reliable, durable, resistant to abuse and reasonably accurate rifle. I read these boards and bought a Colt for my first AR. Since then my tastes have refined [a little] and I wanted a rifle that more closely mirrored my tastes. But I stayed with proven performers when assembling the parts necessary. So my current favorite is a Colt, LMT, BCM, Geissele, JP Enterprises combo that does what I want it to do.
I’ve been lusting after the Geissele.
I’ve been lusting after the Geissele.
I do like their uppers and they keep coming out with more parts, way beyond triggers now. But, Geissele wasn't doing uppers when I put mine together. My Geissele bits are a trigger and buffer tube. I used to have their action spring with buffer but I replaced it with the JP captured unit.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-12-20, 13:52
Shark arms has FN A2 kits for $115. He also gets a lot of Colt stuff. Give Chris a call sure he can set you up. They are gtg I have bought a good bit from him. Sometimes a wait on Colt stuff but everything I bought was as described
https://sharkarms.com/new-arrivals
Arms unlimited would be a place to check as well. Mixed feedback on them as a vendor but the few orders I have placed have been fine. Thoroughbred armament carries Colt as well I believe but no experience with themShark arms came through! Now I'm a lower parts kit away from a m16a4 clone. FN complete upper from Ohio ordnance works, and the FN bcg (F marked) with FN A2 stock kit from shark arms.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
everready73
02-13-20, 09:12
Shark arms came through! Now I'm a lower parts kit away from a m16a4 clone. FN complete upper from Ohio ordnance works, and the FN bcg (F marked) with FN A2 stock kit from shark arms.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I figured they would have something for you. Chris is a solid guy. Glad you found something
MikhailBarracuda91
02-13-20, 12:34
https://www.dtsguns.com/
Just add lower and lpk and you have as good an AR as you can get
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
The_War_Wagon
02-13-20, 15:30
Dude, how do explain the rather heavy "footstools"...?
She's YET to try to move one. ;)
The_War_Wagon
02-13-20, 15:31
60855
I "was" sick of the 40MM cans kicking around so i made a shelf for them.
That looks AWESOME... and MUST be made out of REDWOOD!!! :eek:
robbins290
02-13-20, 15:39
Just pine. But alot of 1x2 underneath. 3 per shelf. Plus all round the edge
Going with Kac. Thanks for the info. I’m also buying several stools for my office.
turnburglar
02-16-20, 14:37
Going with Kac. Thanks for the info. I’m also buying several stools for my office.
LOL, this never gets old.
I guess FN or Colt since they hold the TDP... but Plenty of great options out there
I guess FN or Colt since they hold the TDP... but Plenty of great options out there
FN can't legally sell a TDP rifle to civilians though, Colt can. That's the difference.
FN collector series is pretty close.
FN can't legally sell a TDP rifle to civilians though, Colt can. That's the difference.
FN is not allowed to claim their civilian M4s meet the TDP.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-17-20, 07:32
FN is not allowed to claim their civilian M4s meet the TDP.Exactly, with the newer production military collector series being produced in Columbia south Carolina it would be more expensive for them to make a different rifle than the mil spec version. It just doesn't have the proof markings
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Exactly, with the newer production military collector series being produced in Columbia south Carolina it would be more expensive for them to make a different rifle than the mil spec version. It just doesn't have the proof markings
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
FN is not allowed to claim their civilian M4s meet the TDP.My understanding was they are not allowed to use proprietary information from the TDP to produce the rifle. Just not claiming it met the TDP is no protection at all.
I also recall side by side comparisons of internal teardowns that clearly showed the commercial fns were not the military production rifles with different specific fire control items. At best they shared receiver, barrel, and a few other large components.
To me this is like getting a Colt or LMT receiver and maybe even barrel and then just putting a bunch of commercial stuff on it. Maybe an okay rifle, or even exactly what you want. But it's not the same as the military issue rifle. Which is 6920 is, at least until recently.
I did build a complete lightweight upper using nothing but Daniel Defense parts, but only because they didn't sell that configuration anymore. The only thing I couldn't easily get from them was the Delta ring assembly so I used a Colt.
Is this a Daniel Defense upper? I would not sell it as such. And really wouldn't consider the FN commercial rifles to be the same based on what I know. That until someone does side-by-side teardowns that confirms the point.
It's not that hard, and FN knows it's an issue. Colt very clearly it was an issue with some of their heritage lines, I talked with the factory guys about this at one of the NRA convention shows a while back.
Just do a side-by-side list and show what's the same and that the stuff that isn't the same, it's because of specific reasons.
There are bubba's who just want something that looks the same and has the rollmark and this will satisfy them just like the Colt heritage stuff did. But is not the same.
Since civilian versions are semi only wouldn’t that alone qualify for not meeting TDP?
Colt or FN. If money is no object kac or lmt is what would interest me.
Since civilian versions are semi only wouldn’t that alone qualify for not meeting TDP?Missing the point. Obviously you can't have full auto prescribed parts. But can have certain ones. The 6920 walks that line properly. There are no qualitative compromises made for the 6920 versus the M4. The bcg is identical, etc. The barrel is the same steel and process, only 16 in instead of 14.5. same buffer, spring, etc.
Only a couple of parts and a couple of missing cuts and holes make it different from the M4.
The tdp is as much about processing, dimensions, finish, Etc. Colt figured it out and considered proprietary.
A few have reverse engineered much of it. Or claim to have illicit copies, now not talked about much. It started with the first clones, but certain manufacturers have gone further than others.
Other manufacturers have their own TDP that they think makes better ARs. Maybe, maybe not, depends on what you want.
FN largely has to use the TDP to make make a compliant product. Or say they did, which might be what Mistwolf referred to. Clearly they are allowed some variation or the TDP is silent in some areas, like hammer-forged barrels vs. Button rifled.
If the FN commercial rifles were like the 6920, they would be much more popular. They are not, so the people that buy them either just want the roll mark or are you okay with a rifle made from unspecified commercial parts.
FN is not stupid so you would assume there is a legal barrier preventing them from doing this. Or they just don't care.
Colt was clueless in this regard and lost with a line of lookalikes that did not sell well because they use junk parts. I don't think anyone saying the f ends have junk parts, just different parts than the mill rifles as I understand it. It would be like taking an FN, Colt or LMT receiver and barrel but building the rest of the rifle with Rock River parts.
FN manufacturer commercial FALs are beautiful and virtually identical to the military version. So they can get it right, did in the past.
Same for the original Steyr AUGs civvvy to mil.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-17-20, 16:52
Last year I called FN to inquire about the military collector series rifles. The guy I spoke with told me that the upper half of the rifle was literally made on the same production lines that the US contract M4A1 and M16A4 are made on. I really grilled him. He told me they have the same exact BCG and everything.
The main difference is, although they're manufactured by the same people, on the same machines, these rifles have a different job ID for the factory workers. They're still proof tested and magnetic particle inspected, but they're just not done quite as thorough as the mil contract calls out for on the blueprint. He mentioned how they have to pull the collector series M4 off the line at a different point of assembly than the usgi ones to pin the muzzle device.
The lower receivers are manufactured at a totally different facility NOT FN (could possibly explain the incorrect rollmarks etc)
Chris Bartocci from Small Arms Solutions mentioned on a live chat that his personal military collector M4 had a barrel length of 14.5" (less than 16"overall) no matter how he measured it.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Last year I called FN to inquire about the military collector series rifles. The guy I spoke with told me that the upper half of the rifle was literally made on the same production lines that the US contract M4A1 and M16A4 are made on. I really grilled him. He told me they have the same exact BCG and everything.
The main difference is, although they're manufactured by the same people, on the same machines, these rifles have a different job ID for the factory workers. They're still proof tested and magnetic particle inspected, but they're just not done quite as thorough as the mil contract calls out for on the blueprint. He mentioned how they have to pull the collector series M4 off the line at a different point of assembly than the usgi ones to pin the muzzle device.
Well that would be a good thing, what I would have expected. You'd think it would be a selling point.
The lower receivers are manufactured at a totally different facility NOT FN (could possibly explain the incorrect rollmarks etc)
I'm fuzzy on this but from memory I recall there were differences in fire control group manufacturer, buffer tube, buffer, etc.
The difference should only be a few changes in the lower receiver itself and some omitted parts in the fire control group. Everything else should be the same. And specifically don't just OEM a complete lower from another builder with no FN parts. (Granted, FN probably contracts their small parts like others including colt)
Then you would have the equivalent of a 6920 to Colt M4.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.