View Full Version : FN scores M4/M4A1 contract
From today's DoD contract announcements. Presumably Colt was one of the other five bidders?
"FN America LLC, Columbia, South Carolina, was awarded a $119,216,309 firm-fixed-price contract for M4/M4A1 carbine. Bids were solicited via the internet with six received. Work locations and funding will be determined with each order, with an estimated completion date of Jan. 30, 2025. U.S. Army Contracting Command, New Jersey, is the contracting activity (W15QKN-20-D-0006)."
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/2084309/
So does that mean that Colt is out as far as U.S. military M4's is concerned?
Maybe this is why Colt shut down civilian manufacturing to get out as many M4’s out to the government before they lost the contract?
God Bless,
Brandon
If Colts out of contracts and no civilian sales whats left?
Outlander Systems
02-13-20, 19:30
[laughs in scottryan]
Diamondback
02-13-20, 19:55
Maybe they shoulda thought about that before pissing in their backup market's Cheerios at every opportunity... 1911s and six-shooters will only carry you so far.
Maybe they shoulda thought about that before pissing in their backup market's Cheerios at every opportunity... 1911s and six-shooters will only carry you so far.
Oh, I’m not disagreeing. Their line about the market being stagnant going into an election year was peak stupidity imo.
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Diamondback
02-13-20, 20:20
Oh, I’m not disagreeing. Their line about the market being stagnant going into an election year was peak stupidity imo.
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Especially with VA, OR and WA headed into Panic Buy Mode with bans active in the legislatures.
Straight Shooter
02-13-20, 20:43
Colt can eat crap & die, then fall ff the Earth for my part. They make just the absolute worst business decisions, always have.
So what does this mean for "planned" caliber change?
MountainRaven
02-13-20, 22:08
So what does this mean for "planned" caliber change?
Nothing, really. Beretta was still delivering new M9 pistols after the M17 and M18 were adopted.
Let me know when FN starts to make a serious semi auto rifle for the civie market. Until then this is all just "post samples" and even those aren't easy to lay hands on even if you are a SOT.
Diamondback
02-13-20, 22:43
Let me know when FN starts to make a serious semi auto rifle for the civie market. Until then this is all just "post samples" and even those aren't easy to lay hands on even if you are a SOT.
Do the "Military Collector Series" count?
Do the "Military Collector Series" count?
Nope...
MountainRaven
02-13-20, 23:30
Let me know when FN starts to make a serious semi auto rifle for the civie market. Until then this is all just "post samples" and even those aren't easy to lay hands on even if you are a SOT.
I'm curious as to what you base this statement on.
I'm curious as to what you base this statement on.
The fact that most people here consider it a hobby rifle due to it being manufactured from outsourced parts of questionable quality. I really, really wanted one until I read a few threads here in the tech forums.
If I remember right, both the FN15 and military collector series were hyped up, but neither were built to spec. The military collector series also being way overpriced for what you get. This has already been hashed and re hashed out on the forums.
Edit: spelling ��
News to me. Congrats to FN.
https://www.guns.com/news/2020/02/14/fn-lands-huge-119-million-u-s-army-m4-contract
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Interesting..wonder if PSA will still get FN barrels...
What about Colt?:confused:
I'd imagine PSA and other companies with contracts will still be able to get FN barrels.
If the cost is $500 each which is low that's less than 250k rifles over the next 25 years.
I'm curious what this means to the 6.5 rifles the military is anticipated to adopt soon.
These 5.56 rifles might be for non combat roles.
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Eurodriver
02-14-20, 06:10
I'm curious what this means to the 6.5 rifles the military is anticipated to adopt soon.
These 5.56 rifles might be for non combat roles.
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Wat??
I'd imagine PSA and other companies with contracts will still be able to get FN barrels.
If the cost is $500 each which is low that's less than 250k rifles over the next 25 years.
I'm curious what this means to the 6.5 rifles the military is anticipated to adopt soon.
These 5.56 rifles might be for non combat roles.
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I thought that most of the companies bidding the next gen rifle actually submitted 6.8 caliber designs (but not 6.8 spc).
Other FN news:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/02/12/fn-introduces-updated-carbines-for-law-enforcement/
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I thought that most of the companies bidding the next gen rifle actually submitted 6.8 caliber designs (but not 6.8 spc).You're right 6.8 damn auto correct and not enough coffee.
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FN selling the DoD M4s is not really news. I’ve seen lots of M4A1’s and M16’s with FN on the side. Hell, I’ve been seeing more FN M4A1s than Colt ones, lately, but that could well be sampling bias.
Or are y’all finding the scale of the contract surprising?
Interesting..wonder if PSA will still get FN barrels...
What about Colt?:confused:
I predict another glut of cheap 6920's on the market soon. Especially after Trump wins the election.
I’ve seen lots of M4A1’s and M16’s with FN on the side.
The rifle I carried in basic training almost 25 years ago was an FN M16A2.
The rifle I carried in basic training almost 25 years ago was an FN M16A2.
I carried a FN M16A4 in OSUT 16 years ago. ETA: IIRC, it was purple.
RKB Armory
02-14-20, 07:53
That was a good video at the OP's link.
With the exception of the Beretta, almost every weapon I touched in The Marine Corps was manufactured by FN. I'll admire FN for the rest of my days.
I carried a FN M16A4 in OSUT 16 years ago. ETA: IIRC, it was purple.
My initial OSUT/Basic rifle back in '07 was a Colt M16A4 that was worn out as hell and ended up breaking on a moving target range. I eventually got it replaced with a relatively new FN M16A4, and my love of FN began. Sadly, mine was not purple.
I also saw more than a few brand new FN M4s in the wild. Too bad it always seemed like POG units got them, rather than giving them to units who's M4s were nearly in the white after years of abuse. 'tis the Army though, if it made sense, we'd know something was wrong.
On Topic: Good for FN. I keep expecting another upgrade package, but Big Army seems happy with its current configuration and is placing all bets on yet another rifle/caliber replacement program.
I carried a FN M16A4 in OSUT 16 years ago. ETA: IIRC, it was purple.
Mine was also purple. A little behind you though.
Another announcement that doesn't mean jack shit for anyone not directly involved. After over 20 years in the AR realm, I've learned that none of this crap has anything to do with us end users.
Colt is stupid... blah furking blah...
jackblack73
02-14-20, 09:40
I'd imagine PSA and other companies with contracts will still be able to get FN barrels.
If the cost is $500 each which is low that's less than 250k rifles over the next 25 years.
I'm curious what this means to the 6.5 rifles the military is anticipated to adopt soon.
These 5.56 rifles might be for non combat roles.
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25 years?
25 years?According to this article, but that does seem long.
https://www.guns.com/news/2020/02/14/fn-lands-huge-119-million-u-s-army-m4-contract
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FN selling the DoD M4s is not really news. I’ve seen lots of M4A1’s and M16’s with FN on the side. Hell, I’ve been seeing more FN M4A1s than Colt ones, lately, but that could well be sampling bias.
Or are y’all finding the scale of the contract surprising?
Yeah I’m pretty confident I’ve seen an even split, if not more FNs.
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According to this article, but that does seem long.
https://www.guns.com/news/2020/02/14/fn-lands-huge-119-million-u-s-army-m4-contract
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The contract's estimated completion date is 2025, so 5 years from now.
Good for FN.
But I'm sure Colt will still get fed some smaller M4/M4A1 contracts for the DOD and FMS programs, as the Gov't never likes having all it's eggs in one basket when it comes to large programs like this.
For example from just over a year ago, both FN and Colt got $80M contracts for more M4/M4A1s.
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2018/11/09/Colt-FN-receive-Army-contracts-for-further-M4-M4A1-carbine-production/2031541775138/
And some FMS stuff -
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/09/24/colt-awarded-foreign-military-sales-contract/
https://thedefensepost.com/2019/09/20/colt-contract-m4-m4a1-13-countries/
Just speculation, but as seemingly large as this contract is, it may take the Army to the 6.8mm transition with a large inventory of "just in case" carbines.
The contract's estimated completion date is 2025, so 5 years from now.I just quit my brains not working today. There's three types of people in this world those who can count and those who can't.
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Just speculation, but as seemingly large as this contract is, it may take the Army to the 6.8mm transition with a large inventory of "just in case" carbines.
Not to mention that the 6.8mm is one of those 'the check is in the mail' type things...
I'll believe it when I see it.
Grand58742
02-14-20, 13:06
Good for FN.
But I'm sure Colt will still get fed some smaller M4/M4A1 contracts for the DOD and FMS programs, as the Gov't never likes having all it's eggs in one basket when it comes to large programs like this.
For example from just over a year ago, both FN and Colt got $80M contracts for more M4/M4A1s.
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2018/11/09/Colt-FN-receive-Army-contracts-for-further-M4-M4A1-carbine-production/2031541775138/
And some FMS stuff -
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/09/24/colt-awarded-foreign-military-sales-contract/
https://thedefensepost.com/2019/09/20/colt-contract-m4-m4a1-13-countries/
Or they end up as a subcontractor of FN producing M4 parts/complete carbines.
I recall a few years ago FN had contracted them to produce 240s.
Eurodriver
02-14-20, 13:43
Just speculation, but as seemingly large as this contract is, it may take the Army to the 6.8mm transition with a large inventory of "just in case" carbines.
The army is not switching to 6.8.
Colts civilian sale market was very small compared to the gov contracts. They shut it down for that reason.
The army is not switching to 6.8.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OLCL6OYbSTw
Aren't you USMC..
Or they end up as a subcontractor of FN producing M4 parts/complete carbines.
I recall a few years ago FN had contracted them to produce 240s.
Yeah they all scratch each others back and do business with each other when the situation presents itself.
Only the non-business minded think that this is the 'death bell' for Colt.
If Colts out of contracts and no civilian sales whats left?
Pythons that have to be returned for warranty issues?
Fn had a contract already with the US gov for m4a1. This is nothing new.
A surplus lower courtesy of the US Navy. Now in use with US Border Patrol. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200215/c84c8407d06844220f920751169c3168.jpg
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IIRC, the M16A3 was essentially an A2 with a full auto capability?
IIRC, the M16A3 was essentially an A2 with a full auto capability?
Yes, but the spec could apply to a flat top as well.
A surplus lower courtesy of the US Navy. Now in use with US Border Patrol. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200215/c84c8407d06844220f920751169c3168.jpg
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BCM upper receiver?
Renegade04
02-15-20, 09:05
I'd imagine PSA and other companies with contracts will still be able to get FN barrels.
If the cost is $500 each which is low that's less than 250k rifles over the next 25 years.
I'm curious what this means to the 6.5 rifles the military is anticipated to adopt soon.
These 5.56 rifles might be for non combat roles.
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According to the article, "The guns must be manufactured exclusively within the United States or its Territories, with an estimated completion date of Jan. 30, 2025.". That would be more like a little less than 250K M4s and M4A1s over the next 5 years.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-15-20, 09:21
BCM upper receiver?Yeah I read in a few places that the US Customs and Border Patrol have chosen BCM as their new rifle
https://www.lightfighter.net/topic/usbp-gets-fancy-new-rifles
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BCM upper with 11.5" barrel and BCM MLOK forend.
No factory complete BCM rifles. Uppers are a combination of complete BCM parts as well as 11.5" barrels assembled on Colt uppers and BCM forends.
Forends are 9" so as to be compatible with some of the older vehicle racks. The Tactical unit has a similar gun although there's is a 10" forend and a suppressor compatible muzzle device.
Lowers are either Colt that have been cycled through for rebuild or USGI surplus from DoD.
The DoD lowers have been an amazing mix of M16 history. Some newer FN and Colt stuff but also M16 and even XM lowers from the various military sources. Pretty cool that many of these lowers are still in service and are older than the agents carrying them.
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Belmont31R
02-15-20, 19:51
Am I missing something or is the 6.8MM project just in the initial test procurement phase still? As long as I've been into guns there have been a lot of such programs where they spend ~30 million on some guns/ammo to test, and more often then not they never get beyond the evaluation phase. Mil has to spend the money to test different products, and keep future options open.
As for myself, even though I they don't really make sense anymore given modern options, a factory M4 is on my list but the Colt and FN 'collector' guns are several hundred dollars over where they should be priced which is a shame.
larry starling
02-16-20, 07:55
If Colts out of contracts and no civilian sales whats left?
Well according to a recent article from Colt they have back orders to the tune of 14k for the new Python! Now if they can fix it Colt will be fine if without all the Haters!
Blankstrap
02-16-20, 09:53
If Colts out of contracts and no civilian sales whats left?Colt's handling major M4 contracts for foreign governments brokered by U.S.
Well according to a recent article from Colt they have back orders to the tune of 14k for the new Python! Now if they can fix it Colt will be fine if without all the Haters!Hey, at $4k a pop thats $56,000,000. $56k for the mighty colt, could not even pay the old plant's light bill with that!
I suspect Colt will make it up with sales other than to the US army. And if they don't the board will feel the pressure and start selling to civvies again.
Am I missing something or is the 6.8MM project just in the initial test procurement phase still? As long as I've been into guns there have been a lot of such programs where they spend ~30 million on some guns/ammo to test, and more often then not they never get beyond the evaluation phase. Mil has to spend the money to test different products, and keep future options open.
the operational parameters they've identified are going to require very significant breakthroughs including some approaching changing the laws of physics. (300wm recoil in an M4 weight package)
and even then it has to be reliable in quantity.
I hope they are able to do it as those breakthroughs could trickle down. But I'm not holding my breath
As for myself, even though I they don't really make sense anymore given modern options, a factory M4 is on my list but the Colt and FN 'collector' guns are several hundred dollars over where they should be priced which is a shame.
I wanted a 6920 in M4 configuration as kind of as a reference for fun. Have not changed the barrel yet but I'm looking for a good used Colt 14.5 FSB barrel which I will pin and swap.
Partly just to remind myself how I got in the m4gery thing as it was cuz they were light, reliable, easy to shoot accurately and fastly.
I'd love a civvy FN made A4 if it was off the line except for specific fcg parts. But thats not what their collector guns are. Could probably get closer with a used Colt in A2 config of some form.
MikhailBarracuda91
02-16-20, 16:45
I wanted a 6920 in M4 configuration as kind of as a reference for fun. Have not changed the barrel yet but I'm looking for a good used Colt 14.5 FSB barrel which I will pin and swap.
Partly just to remind myself how I got in the m4gery thing as it was cuz they were light, reliable, easy to shoot accurately and fastly.
I'd love a civvy FN made A4 if it was off the line except for specific fcg parts. But thats not what their collector guns are. Could probably get closer with a used Colt in A2 config of some form.I keep seeing this. Aside from the proof marks, what's the difference? From my understanding they're manufactured at the South Carolina facility now instead of Virginia like they originally were.
I spoke on the phone to someone from FN recently in regards to the collector series. He told me as of right now they're actually manufacturing them on the exact same line that the military guns are, they just cannot stamp them the same. Also he said the lower receivers ARE NOT made by FN.
A side note. Chris Bartocci from Small Arms Solutions mentioned in a live chat that he measured the barrel length of his personal military collector series M4 and it's exactly 14.5" . . . so that lines up with what the FN employee said lol
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A bit more info:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2020/2/18/military-issues-contract-for-m4s-valued-at-nearly-120-million/
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robbins290
02-19-20, 08:16
$717.72 per rifle is not bad. and I assume its just more then just a rifle and mag. so the price per unit would be lower.
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Haha-we have an old Hydramatic lower in our armory, one of the BCM rebuilds we got from Harper's or wherever.. I never got around to really check out what is in there but there's a lot of them
Haha-we have an old Hydramatic lower in our armory, one of the BCM rebuilds we got from Harper's or wherever.. I never got around to really check out what is in there but there's a lot of them
LOL The M16A1 that I had issued to me in Panama 35 years ago was a Hydramatic. Even saw a couple XM16E1 receivers too. I know, this is ancient news, like it should have been put on the receiver in hieroglyphics! :rolleyes:
Grand58742
02-20-20, 11:32
LOL The M16A1 that I had issued to me in Panama 35 years ago was a Hydramatic. Even saw a couple XM16E1 receivers too. I know, this is ancient news, like it should have been put on the receiver in hieroglyphics! :rolleyes:
I saw an H&R lower that had been rebuilt to an M4 for the Navy. I never knew they produced any M16 FOW until then.
Some additional news.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2020/2/25/fn-america-lands-m4-contract-valued-at-nearly-120-million/
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If Colts out of contracts and no civilian sales whats left?
Pythons...
The rifles will be back, give it a year or two.
Blankstrap
02-26-20, 07:17
If Colts out of contracts and no civilian sales whats left?
Pythons...
The rifles will be back, give it a year or two.And again...
Colt's handling major M4 contracts for foreign governments brokered by U.S.
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