South Korean tanks for Poland? [Archive]

View Full Version : South Korean tanks for Poland?

Slater

02-15-20, 22:10

Probably far from a done deal, but two countries that you don't normally associate with defense business dealings:

"On January 17, 2020, The Korea Times reported that the Korean industrial concern Hyundai Rotem was favored to win an upcoming 9 billion tank development deal with the Polish Ministry of Defense. If the deal goes through, Poland will likely procure and/or build a variant of the K2 Black Panther main battle tank. Korean armored vehicles have seen major sales success recently in Europe, with the Korean K9 Thunder howitzer winning major contracts with Finland, Estonia, and Norway. Poland also procures the K9 in some variants through the AHS Krab program. However, the K9 is built and sold by Hanwha Defense, a different concern than Hyundai Rotem."

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/boom-why-south-koreas-k2-black-panther-tanks-are-headed-poland-123246

Diamondback

02-16-20, 00:00

Grand58742

02-16-20, 08:45

Slater

02-16-20, 09:01

Possibly the overall cost may be a major factor.

soulezoo

02-16-20, 11:26

The SK tank is quite competitive. I'm sure it's a price + availability thing though. With Leopard II's right next door, that would seem most logical. So it's gotta be price and availability.

26 Inf

02-16-20, 21:47

That surprises me when the Poles have already prototyped better...
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/is-polands-stealthy-pl-01-the-tank-of-the-future-1554395391/all

Take this thing's IR masking and radar-absorbnt material, upscale it to MBT size, add an adaptive-camouflage system...

The PL-01 never passed the prototype stage. Currently Polish Army operate around 900 main battle tanks, including indigenous PT-91 Twardy and German Leopard 2. Also there are around 400 T-72 MBTs in storage. http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pl_01.htm

n January 2020 Poland announced negotiations with Hyundai for license production of the K2 Black Panther for the Polish Army

What does license production mean in this context?

vicious_cb

02-16-20, 22:20

The PL-01 never passed the prototype stage. Currently Polish Army operate around 900 main battle tanks, including indigenous PT-91 Twardy and German Leopard 2. Also there are around 400 T-72 MBTs in storage. http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pl_01.htm

n January 2020 Poland announced negotiations with Hyundai for license production of the K2 Black Panther for the Polish Army

What does license production mean in this context?

Technology transfer, its gonna be a giant political hoopla to figure out what gets built where. If the Leo 2PL program is any indicator the Polish defense industry should stay the hell away from producing the K2. Not sure if the Koreans are still running German MTU powerpack but they also had problems making a domestic powerpack that worked for the K2.

Lol@the stealth tank. The Poles cant even get the Leopard 2PL program right and they think they can build a Command and Conquer stealth tank!? :rolleyes:

sundance435

02-20-20, 15:06

From what I've gathered, their PT-91s are basically T-90s (themselves upgraded T-72s), which are very competitive or slightly superior in some areas like speed, agility, and terrain restrictions with the M1A1 or M1A2, but overall a less capable and survivable design. Plus, they're dirt-simple as far as new(er) MBTs go and thus attractive to a lot of countries who want value. The K2 is supposed to be a good MBT, more akin probably to an M1A1 than the newest version of the M1A2, but I can't imagine it's any better than the newest Leopard IIs, which are arguably the best MBTs in the world and leasable. Hyundai/South Korea need to sell K2s because with South Korea as the only customer, their unit costs for an indigenous design are astronomical.

The Poles are spending kind of manically on different defense platforms lately, almost like a Gulf nation but without the oil wealth. F-35s don't make very much sense to me for them as one of the most forward NATO countries vis a vis Russia, but I'm just a general in Command & Conquer. That'd be like hooking up a 2020 John Deere to a 1950s haybaler. There have also been reports that their availability rates across all services are terrible. A successful Polish military is good for all of us, so I wish them nothing but the best.

vicious_cb

02-21-20, 19:29

From what I've gathered, their PT-91s are basically T-90s (themselves upgraded T-72s), which are very competitive or slightly superior in some areas like speed, agility, and terrain restrictions with the M1A1 or M1A2, but overall a less capable and survivable design. Plus, they're dirt-simple as far as new(er) MBTs go and thus attractive to a lot of countries who want value. The K2 is supposed to be a good MBT, more akin probably to an M1A1 than the newest version of the M1A2, but I can't imagine it's any better than the newest Leopard IIs, which are arguably the best MBTs in the world and leasable. Hyundai/South Korea need to sell K2s because with South Korea as the only customer, their unit costs for an indigenous design are astronomical.

I dont even know where to start. Lets just use base logic here and not even go into specifics like armor or armament, fire control ect.

The PT-91 is no where near the capability of a T-90 variant. Probably closer to a T-72B3 if that. Think about it, the latest T-90 variants are on par with M1A2 SEPs, Leopard 2A6s ect, if the PT-91 is so good then why would Poland be in such a hurry to dump the PT-91 and buy secondhand Leo 2A4s and K2 Black Panthers?

The K2 is more like a M1A1?Really now, you know the tank that the K2 is replacing, the K1A1 is literally a licensed copy of the M1A1 right? So why replace a tank that is basically a M1A1 with something thats just like it? #logic

just a scout

02-22-20, 06:01

Because the M1A1 is 63 tons, the M1A2 is 73 tons. The K2 is 55 tons. We should be looking at that too. Most infrastructure (read roads roads and bridges) in most of the rest of the world, especially Eastern Europe, can’t take that weight. That’s one of the big reasons Warsaw Pact armored vehicles were always so much smaller than western ones.

He’ll, if it was up to me, anhand the Puma was more viable, I’d replace the M1 with a 120mm Puma. It would be a lot easier to move around strategically and tactically.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

sundance435

02-24-20, 10:33

I dont even know where to start. Lets just use base logic here and not even go into specifics like armor or armament, fire control ect.

The PT-91 is no where near the capability of a T-90 variant. Probably closer to a T-72B3 if that. Think about it, the latest T-90 variants are on par with M1A2 SEPs, Leopard 2A6s ect, if the PT-91 is so good then why would Poland be in such a hurry to dump the PT-91 and buy secondhand Leo 2A4s and K2 Black Panthers?

The K2 is more like a M1A1?Really now, you know the tank that the K2 is replacing, the K1A1 is literally a licensed copy of the M1A1 right? So why replace a tank that is basically a M1A1 with something thats just like it? #logic

A T-72B3 is basically a T-90 and based on available objective information, a T-90 isn't close, overall, to an M1A2SEPv2 or M1A2C or a Leopard 2A6. I said a T-90 would be very competitive or superior in some aspects, but if it's a tank battle in Eastern Europe, the M1A2 and Leopard 2A6 or A7 will win all day. I would still compare the K2 to the M1A1 variant the USMC uses, except that K2 uses a traditional diesel engine vs. a turbine.

vicious_cb

02-24-20, 10:34

A T-72B3 is basically a T-90 and based on available objective information, a T-90 isn't close, overall, to an M1A2SEPv2 or M1A2C or a Leopard 2A6. I said a T-90 would be very competitive or superior in some aspects, but if it's a tank battle in Eastern Europe, the M1A2 and Leopard 2A6 or A7 will win all day. I would still compare the K2 to the M1A1 variant the USMC uses, except that K2 uses a traditional diesel engine vs. a turbine.

T-72B3=T-90 A/S/M? Whatever you say bud :rolleyes:

This isnt an armor forum after all.