View Full Version : Comparison of Safety Levers
I am not a gunsmith. I don't sell anything, and I don't claim to be an SME when it comes to ARs. I am retired military and currently work in the data world for a government agency in an office that conducts strategic analytics. Where I work data is everything.
In my past military and civilian life I worked as a machinery repair technician.
In my opinion, when it comes to parts, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. For what it's worth, when it comes to small parts, looks can at times be deceiving. Fit and function also don't tell the entire story. I have seen the best finished and machined parts fail, under conditions where a rough cast part with the flashing barely knocked off the edges last for decades.
.
I am putting together a new lower, and decided to compare three different safeties. They all look about the same, function about the same, and look to be about the same quality. One is a generic of unknown provenance that came from my parts bin. One was pulled from my Colt 6920 (replaced with an ambidextrous), and the third is from a SOLGW LPK.
I'm not going to make any conclusions at this point, but data is data, and there are no data points that are not worth considering. everyone can come to their own conclusions.
The pictures below show each of the safety levers weighed on a scale that was calibrated with a 100 gram certified weight. Obviously one of the three is not made of the same materials as the others. for the sake of argument we can assume the Colt is MILSPEC base line.
61043
61044
61045
61046
Data is not good or bad, it's just data.
everready73
02-24-20, 19:47
Not surprised the Colt and SOLGW weigh the same. They are both quality milspec parts from Schmid.
Also not surprised the generic one weighs less. Not necessarily a given for an inferior part depending on material but guessing lower quality.
It's little things like this that the " just as good as" people don't get
Thanks for the data. The more the better
stuff
Attention to detail.
They are made from the same material as far as it is a "steel". What alloy require a bit more investigation, but you would not be able to discern that by weight, as the density difference between alloys id so small that scale will never detect it.
1) the weight difference is due to the different thumb rest. Note the heavier ones are longer (extend closer to the center).
2) the light "generic" one is the only one that actually looks like the official ARDEC drawing.
https://i.imgur.com/O8VLwLM.png?1
So, you probably need to ask yourself, "Are there any physical reasons for this peculiarity?" before you start accusing people about "low quality".
A new Schimd vs one from 15 years ago:
https://i.imgur.com/2lCzb8W.jpg?1
I like the Colt/Schmid thumb lever extends to the center of the drum. Stronger.
Attention to detail.
"....So, you probably need to ask yourself, "Are there any physical reasons for this peculiarity?" before you start accusing people about "low quality".
And where exactly in my post did I do that?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Attention to detail.
They are made from the same material as far as it is a "steel". What alloy require a bit more investigation, but you would not be able to discern that by weight, as the density difference between alloys id so small that scale will never detect it.
1) the weight difference is due to the different thumb rest. Note the heavier ones are longer (extend closer to the center).
2) the light "generic" one is the only one that actually looks like the official ARDEC drawing.
https://i.imgur.com/O8VLwLM.png?1
So, you probably need to ask yourself, "Are there any physical reasons for this peculiarity?" before you start accusing people about "low quality".
He is comparing 2 apples to an orange.
One more data point.
Magazine catch from SOLGW and the same bag the generic selector came from. Quality looks similar. Coating is slightly different color between the two. Wish I knew the origins of the generic kit, but the bag is unmarked.
Again I make no judgments, as I have a sample of one. One data point is better than none.
61061
61062
Data is not good or bad, it's just data.
One more data point.
Magazine catch from SOLGW and the same bag the generic selector came from. Quality looks similar. Coating is slightly different color between the two. Wish I knew the origins of the generic kit, but the bag is unmarked.
Again I make no judgments, as I have a sample of one. One data point is better than none.
61061
61062
Data is not good or bad, it's just data.
Once again the heavier one is thicker, you can see that even with these pictures but still probably within the broad tolerances given those dimensions. About .005 to .010 thousandths thickness would account for that weight variation.
What exactly is the point of this data collection? To prove that more metal weighs more?
I think we all know this.
One more data point.
Magazine catch from SOLGW and the same bag the generic selector came from. Quality looks similar. Coating is slightly different color between the two. Wish I knew the origins of the generic kit, but the bag is unmarked.
Again I make no judgments, as I have a sample of one. One data point is better than none.
61061
61062
Data is not good or bad, it's just data.
Data in the case presented by you means nothing if the parts you are comparing are NOT the same size and shape. Open your eyes. I am assuming you are not blind but I could be wrong.
Placing this in AR gen, I don't see it in here. The only thing technical is Lysander's replies.
Data in the case presented by you means nothing if the parts you are comparing are NOT the same size and shape. Open your eyes. I am assuming you are not blind but I could be wrong.The point is that there are a multitude of threads that say what amounts to "they're all the same", or "I know this one or that one is better, because it looks better", or my best friends second cousin said...
So I figured I would record the differences in the parts I have and make decisions based on what I find.
Just because i have only posted a couple of data points, doesn't mean that is all I'm going to look at. Each data point is just a data point. I started on weight, because for now that was the simplest. I'm Not drawing any conclusions until I look at all the data collected as a whole. Then I can start asking the why part.
Does heavier mean better, not necessarily. does thicker metal make it better, not necessarily. Do dimensions in non critical area mean better, again not necessarily.
Form should be a function of reliability for a given purpose.
So far, all about all I've said is of the small sample of parts I have available, there are quantifiable differences. Some of my comments are thinking out loud, not final conclusions.
As for comparing apples to oranges, I'm not, they are the same functional part. The why they are different comes later. So saying its meaningless only applies if you look at one data point and start jumping to conclusions by assuming other variables not measured yet.
If you guys don't want me to share what I'm finding as I go along, I wont. I just thought some folks would find it interesting.
I can always just make a post that says "Bushmaster sucks", or that company sucks because they make stuff in Taiwan....
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I like the Colt/Schmid thumb lever extends to the center of the drum. Stronger.
Same here, although I never had an issue with the old version. Didn't they upgrade the safety in the 2000s some time? I still have guns with the old version.
If you guys don't want me to share what I'm finding as I go along, I wont. I just thought some folks would find it interesting.
I can always just make a post that says "Bushmaster sucks", or that company sucks because they make stuff in Taiwan....
I'm interested in the back and forth which gives me points to ponder.
The point is that there are a multitude of threads that say what amounts to "they're all the same", or "I know this one or that one is better, because it looks better", or my best friends second cousin said...
So I figured I would record the differences in the parts I have and make decisions based on what I find.
.
.
.
If that was what you wished to do a simple picture of the three parts next to each other and a explanation of how they are different would have been more to the point. Showing just the weight difference implies that there is something about the weight that is important, when in fact, the weight difference is a by-product of the shape difference.
Just say'n.
OH, and as to the large thumb-rest safeties . . .
You will find a majority of the cheaper parts kits come with that style, as it is more conducive to MIM production. The "green" part is weak right where the thumb rest meets the disc-part with the original design, the thick junction makes it easier to handle green parts during MIM. After baking, the strength difference is minimal from a cast part.
(Personally, I prefer the original design, I mean it lasted 40+ years and nobody complained that safeties broke all the time.)
If that was what you wished to do a simple picture of the three parts next to each other and a explanation of how they are different would have been more to the point. Showing just the weight difference implies that there is something about the weight that is important, when in fact, the weight difference is a by-product of the shape difference.
Just say'n.
OH, and as to the large thumb-rest safeties . . .
You will find a majority of the cheaper parts kits come with that style, as it is more conducive to MIM production. The "green" part is weak right where the thumb rest meets the disc-part with the original design, the thick junction makes it easier to handle green parts during MIM. After baking, the strength difference is minimal from a cast part.
(Personally, I prefer the original design, I mean it lasted 40+ years and nobody complained that safeties broke all the time.)
What do you mean by the "green" part?
Also, is MIM common in LPK components?
What do you mean by the "green" part?
Also, is MIM common in LPK components?
By green he means before the part is cooked. This video explains the process>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmLYj3GZsx8
I agree with lysander, this data without context isn't exactly useful. Now, if you have drawings to compare them to and the ability to provide a detailed inspection report and positive material identification that showed irregularities/differences that might be more useful.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.