fixing POA/POI with fixed sights

[chadbag]

Ok, I have a Sig P229 with night sights -- fixed sights. When I shoot with it at 7 yds the rounds are all low 5-8 inches. I thought it might be me but I had a friend shoot it and he had the same issues. I know ammo choice may affect POI but the two different ammo choices I had (my own reloads -- 4 slightly different powder levels and some factory Speer Lawman training ammo -- all were 165gr) all were about the same amount low.

What can I do to adjust these sights so that POI is approx POA at 7 or 10 or 15 yds, what ever these are made for?

[spamsammich]

I had the same problem with a sig-ish FNP-9 trigger. Actually all of the FNP variants gave me the same problem, I was actually off paper some times at 7 yards. This was shooting a Steyr M9-a1 and the FNP guns back to back. It was just as bad comparing it to a Glock 22.

I couldn't believe how poorly I shot and I know it was me, not the sights because when I bench rested and really concentrated on squeezing the tirgger the shots all hit POA. Did you try benching the gun? Sorry for being captain obvious if you have, but I was about to adjust the sights on my gun until I swallowed my pride and started from ground up.

[chadbag]

I had the same problem with a sig-ish FNP-9 trigger. Actually all of the FNP variants gave me the same problem, I was actually off paper some times at 7 yards. This was shooting a Steyr M9-a1 and the FNP guns back to back. It was just as bad comparing it to a Glock 22.

I couldn't believe how poorly I shot and I know it was me, not the sights because when I bench rested and really concentrated on squeezing the tirgger the shots all hit POA. Did you try benching the gun? Sorry for being captain obvious if you have, but I was about to adjust the sights on my gun until I swallowed my pride and started from ground up.

Hi

I did not bench it but I still think it was the sights for the following reasons:

1. Both I and my friend had the same issue with this gun
2. Neither of us had issues with any of the other handguns we shot including some I had never shot before (ie, unknown triggers on them)
3. We were able to consistently correct for it by adjusting the sight picture where the bottom of the front post sat at the top of the rear posts. This worked consistently for both of us.
4. I was working on my trigger pull (DAK trigger) and was able to get smooth followups and this happened on every shot no matter if it was the first in the string or mid string.

I would like to try and bench it. We were just out in the desert shooting up against a hill and did not have a good table or anything to work with.

Chad

[spamsammich]

Gotcha. It could very well be the sights.

FWIW, a girl friend of mine was shooting my FNP-9 and complained about the same POI problem I initially had. She never corrected it and just adjusted her hold over. On the other hand I was POA=POI all day with it. I think I have the trigger dialed and I switched from 6 o'clock hold to splitting the bullseye with the front blade and adjusting my grip so I wasn't adding tension from my strong hand. I ended up kicking my elbows out a little bit and pulling the gun back into me a touch so I couldn't lock my strong hand elbow and push the barrel down so easily.

[theJanitor]

i had a SA 1911 that shot around 4" low at 7 yards. it was frustrating because i had to cover my targets with my slide to get accurate hits. but the fix was easy, i ordered a shorter front sight. i did find out that could actually be faster at close distances with the original (low poi) sight arrangement, though. i would shoot it "rabbit out of the hole" and i was marginally faster and got good hits at close distances.

[ToddG]

It's really pretty hard to assess with the limited information available. But shooting 5-8" low at just 7yd is pretty hard to blame on the gun unless there is something genuinely messed up. You aren't going to find sights that can fix that much of a problem.

At 7yd, you shouldn't be getting a 3" group, either. So it shouldn't be shooting 5-8" low, it should be shooting more or less exactly x-inches low.

It's very easy to anticipate with the DAK. Anticipation results in shooting low.

Try the ball & dummy drill and see if you're anticipating.

Not singling you out, but I've seen plenty of situations where two guys both had the same problem with a gun and assumed it was the gun's fault. Two years ago I was down at FLETC and had a bunch of their FIs insist that some guns were shooting 6" low at 10yd. I picked up each one of them and they were all within an inch or so of POA=POI at that distance. They assumed I was cheating by aiming high. Then the next day I ran into another FI down there (who is also a Master-class competitive shooter and fairly familiar with that particular type of firearm). They'd had him shoot the guns, too, and his results were identical to mine. They assumed he was cheating, too. :cool:

[chadbag]

It's really pretty hard to assess with the limited information available. But shooting 5-8" low at just 7yd is pretty hard to blame on the gun unless there is something genuinely messed up. You aren't going to find sights that can fix that much of a problem.

At 7yd, you shouldn't be getting a 3" group, either. So it shouldn't be shooting 5-8" low, it should be shooting more or less exactly x-inches low.


I messed up my phrase. It was not a 3" group, just that I did not precisely measure it and eyeballed the distance low.

I will try again next time I go out and be very careful with what I am doing as well as bring along a bench etc to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks!
Chad




It's very easy to anticipate with the DAK. Anticipation results in shooting low.

Try the ball & dummy drill and see if you're anticipating.

Not singling you out, but I've seen plenty of situations where two guys both had the same problem with a gun and assumed it was the gun's fault. Two years ago I was down at FLETC and had a bunch of their FIs insist that some guns were shooting 6" low at 10yd. I picked up each one of them and they were all within an inch or so of POA=POI at that distance. They assumed I was cheating by aiming high. Then the next day I ran into another FI down there (who is also a Master-class competitive shooter and fairly familiar with that particular type of firearm). They'd had him shoot the guns, too, and his results were identical to mine. They assumed he was cheating, too. :cool: