View Full Version : Current state of S&W M&P15’s?
I’m looking for a inexpensive beater AR, and I found some S&W Magpul Mid MOE-SL’s for a great price($600). Are these hot garbage? I’d prefer to stay away from PSA, and I don’t feel much like building. I can’t help but think these have to be better. I would use the furniture as is as I really like it. Most likely, this won’t see anything beyond Wolf steel cased. Thoughts?? I have plenty of quality guns.
If you have plenty of quality guns just use one of those. Nothing wrong with using expensive/quality tool as a beater. Don't buy crappy guns. That only encourages manufacturers to produce more crap. For a few hundred dollars more you can get a high quality which will be more reliable and pleasant to shoot.
everready73
03-06-20, 18:50
It's not a terrible option but I would go something different
If you want a factory rifle the Aero AC15 is a better choice right around the same price point. Barrel is middy ballistic advantage and I believe mpt/hpi tested. Bcg is also hpt/mpi unlike the s&w. I don't love either companies small parts but would pick areo if I had to. At least you know the buffer tube is 7075 for sure
Another option would be to buy a complete upper and build a lower
Sionics upper at Primary Arms- 475(one sale or with coupon they have been running)
Toolcraft bcg 70
Built lower- pr
Aero lower $50
SOLGW blaster kit 40
Aero Re kit $30
milspec trigger/stock $50
That puts you a little over at $715 but much better option imo
SwatDawg15
03-07-20, 00:36
They are solid for what they are.
They're great for a range gun. Shoot well with brass, I haven't tried steel case in them. But hey if it malfs you can at least work on your malfunction clearance. Higher quality guns are boringly reliable.
For the money they're tough to beat. Reid Henrichs and Paul Howe have good things to say about them. Both of those gentleman seem to know more than most about the AR platform
I had one for awhile it was accurate and reliable over several thousand rounds. Reason I actually got rid of it was the 1/9 barrel twist and wanted a mid- length barrel
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I’m looking for a inexpensive beater AR, and I found some S&W Magpul Mid MOE-SL’s for a great price($600). Are these hot garbage? I’d prefer to stay away from PSA, and I don’t feel much like building. I can’t help but think these have to be better. I would use the furniture as is as I really like it. Most likely, this won’t see anything beyond Wolf steel cased. Thoughts?? I have plenty of quality guns.
For your described purpose, they are okay. Detail inspect on arrival, stake anything down that needs it. If you plan to shoot 5.56 in it, gauge the chamber and ream if necessary.
This thread provides some helpful tips: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?7376
hotrodder636
03-08-20, 10:49
My brother has one. He is not a high volume shooter, has an AR pretty much to have one and didn’t want to spend a bunch of money. I think he got his for about 400. When in town, I have shot with him close to 1000 rounds of Wolf steel cased ammo. No issues to date. Total round count is probably around 2000 rounds in 4 or 5 years.
Like STI above said, check staking and chamber.
hotrodder636
03-08-20, 10:49
My brother has one. He is not a high volume shooter, has an AR pretty much to have one and didn’t want to spend a bunch of money. I think he got his for about 400. When in town, I have shot with him close to 1000 rounds of Wolf steel cased ammo. No issues to date. Total round count is probably around 2000 rounds in 4 or 5 years.
Like STI above said, check staking and chamber.
Don't buy crappy guns. That only encourages manufacturers to produce more crap. For a few hundred dollars more you can get a high quality which will be more reliable and pleasant to shoot.
I bought my two teenage sons an M&P Sport II each for Christmas this past year. I personally own Colt and BCM rifles, and have been issued Colt, LMT and S&W rifles through work. The M&P Sports have been just as reliable and pleasant to shoot.
They may not be "Instagram-worthy" hotness, but they are not crap.
My first AR was a M&P 15 in 2008 and I still have it today. Everything was staked as it should be. Just shooting from benches, tailgates and box blinds it has been crazy reliable. I might have 2000 rounds through it. Accurate enough for me with a 4x ACOG out to 500 yards.
Since that one I have acquired 4 more AR’s. Two are unused spikes builds that I plan to hand over to my kids one day. One is a 9” DD in 300 BO and another is 11.5” BCM in 5.56. I mostly shoot those two suppressed and comparitively to my 16” S&W I beat the crap out of those two guns. Therefore I have experienced minor malfunctions in two of my “quality” guns....:confused:
So based on what I’ve read that you want to do I expect a current M&P 15 will fill the roll nicely. At least you’ll won’t be paying 2008 prices like I did. :mad:
With a couple of M&P Sports, zero failures, zero complaints. Do I like my BCM and Colts better? Yes. But, can I objectively say that their basic function and reliability is inferior? Nope. If you want a Sport, get one, shoot it, and enjoy!
tacticaldesire
03-08-20, 21:56
There's different "tiers" of M&P 15. There's the sport which is what I think most are talking about. There's the 15x and 15T with some better features and then there's the 15 which is the "full" featured model.
The sport is the only one I'd bother with. With the other models you get into the price range of Colt, BCM and Midwest.
ThirdWatcher
03-09-20, 02:45
I bought an M&P15 back in (about) 2008 and installed an H2 Buffer (based on Grant’s advice) and it is one sweet rifle.
I bought my two teenage sons an M&P Sport II each for Christmas this past year. I personally own Colt and BCM rifles, and have been issued Colt, LMT and S&W rifles through work. The M&P Sports have been just as reliable and pleasant to shoot.
They may not be "Instagram-worthy" hotness, but they are not crap.
I apologize for the harsh original statement.
I probably expressed myself in a manner which can definitely be interpreted the wrong way just by reading an online post. This was not a dig at S&W, PSA or any other particular brand.
What I meant to say was - if you think you have better options at marginally increased price it's always better to go with the higher quality. Though price is not always an indicator of quality. As long as the gun is reliable and has proven quality components (i.e. not crappy) - brand does not matter, even if self built.
As an example:
I find it easy to understand and justify why people buy PSA or ToolCraft BCGs at $70-80 vs premium BCGs for $170-$200. Basically at least 2x difference.
I find it harder to justify (for myself at least) buying a cheaper gun for $700 when you can get what you feel is a better quality for $900-$1000. If you were talking $700 (for a decent quality gun) vs $1200 or more, then maybe price/performance merits can be weighted differently.
With the M&P 15, I would install an H2 buffer and replace the LPK with a known quality kit from Colt or BCM and you should be good to go for a long, long time.
With the M&P 15, I would install an H2 buffer and replace the LPK with a known quality kit from Colt or BCM and you should be good to go for a long, long time.
Seems like a lot of money/effort to put into a beater/range rifle. I would just take it out as is and shoot the crap out of it.
Op, one thing I noticed when checking over my friends new M&P sport was the endplate/castle nut was pathetically staked, very light marks moving very little metal, and on the wrong side of the notch, so that the staking would immediately block the castle nut from being further tightened, but would allow it to loosen just a bit before blocking further rotation. Things that make you go hmmm... :confused: The gas key seemed to have good solid staking though.
robbins290
03-09-20, 10:38
I bought the M&P sport and a sport ORC for 450 each brand new. They work great for a beater. The orc will be my night hunt set up. Very good accuracy. I bought them pretty much for range use and getting thrown around the truck/boat/wheela and not worried about them getting damaged. They are alot better then the PSA's i had. and S&W will back them up.
I had a Sport and wanted to "torture test" it, just to see what happened. Two years, about 12,000 rounds, no cleaning, well-oiled/lubed. Shot fine with Aimpoint ACO to 250 yards the entire time. Eventually I sold it, just because. I am not implying anything with regard to said testing, just that it lived through it. Great beater rifle.
the AR-15 Junkie
03-09-20, 19:32
I have a S&W Sport 2 with an Osprey Piston kit in it, and it runs flawlessly, one of my favorite ARs.
RKB Armory
03-11-20, 11:59
There haven't been any negative reviews in this thread, so far. That's fairly impressive, to me.
robbins290
03-11-20, 12:29
RKB, i know! i was thinking the same thing when i first saw this thread.
TomPenguin5145
03-11-20, 13:01
I know people who use them on a street for a duty gun. They go bang when they need to.
robbins290
03-11-20, 13:11
with a few tweaks for one out of the box. I could see that with most LEO's. they might see 100 rounds in 5 years. I patrol with a windham weaponry. Most on here would lose there minds because it did not have a pony on it.
tacticaldesire
03-12-20, 07:43
with a few tweaks for one out of the box. I could see that with most LEO's. they might see 100 rounds in 5 years. I patrol with a windham weaponry. Most on here would lose there minds because it did not have a pony on it.
100rds in 5 years? What podunk agency is that?
robbins290
03-12-20, 07:46
Tactical, you must never been in a small town or rural area.
tacticaldesire
03-12-20, 10:34
Tactical, you must never been in a small town or rural area.
I grew up in a rural farming town, I am very familiar. Every agency I've worked at or have been around have just fired more than 20 rounds a year in their ARs I guess. I'd have to go back and look but I'm pretty sure our state qual is more than that.
my dept is 50 per quarter/ 200 per year. Side note I have an m&p15 moe right around 1700 rds. (all brass) 4150 5r rifled 1/8 midlength. It was the issued rifle for Maricopa a few years back. Castle nut staking was non-existent otherwise no issues. Nothing close to a torture test by any means. But I bought it for a spare. Price was good at the time.
with a few tweaks for one out of the box. I could see that with most LEO's. they might see 100 rounds in 5 years. I patrol with a windham weaponry. Most on here would lose there minds because it did not have a pony on it.
I would think that their qualification course would run close to 100 rounds, and that should be per year. We have annual qual that requires 40 rounds, but then we also have 2 other training sessions in addition to that for In Service Training which requires another 50 to 60 rounds per session. My Dept only has 60 Sworn Officers. Much smaller than the Dept I retired from that has 1500 Officers.
robbins290
03-13-20, 18:15
Even at 100 rounds a year. Still not that much is what i was getting at.
no disagreement here. One reason I bought my first Ar was to train and become proficient. Department funds are a little short for that ergo it's coming out of my pocket. Handgun is the same way.
Took a basic SWAT operator course last summer. During our range day we fired around 600 rounds each out of our carbines throughout the day. Rifles I witnessed in action were mostly Colts, some DDs, a couple PSAs, an M&P 15T, some frankenguns and one guy had a Nemo Arms. The only carbine that went down that day was the M&P. Sheared a bolt lug about halfway through the course and ceased to function. I know it's a sample size of one but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
BillyJack2012
03-14-20, 23:58
With the M&P 15, I would install an H2 buffer and replace the LPK with a known quality kit from Colt or BCM and you should be good to go for a long, long time.
What concerns do you have with the S&W installed LPK? Did you have a failure with yours? Mine has been flawless and has earned it's spot as a go to rifle for any situation. It's been absolutely solid all around.
Yeah, to be honest the one place I do have any concern (after going over and loc tite , torque etc) is the bolt. Just due to it being an unknown. I've got toolcraft c158 in both of my builds and a sionics, a solgw and a psa premium I've picked up as spares during sales etc. Not gonna lie I do get a nagging feeling in the gut to swap in one of the premium ones. But for what I use the gun( beater, steel cased) I'm just gonna run it til it breaks.
the AR-15 Junkie
03-15-20, 12:37
Yeah, to be honest the one place I do have any concern (after going over and loc tite , torque etc) is the bolt. Just due to it being an unknown. I've got toolcraft c158 in both of my builds and a sionics, a solgw and a psa premium I've picked up as spares during sales etc. Not gonna lie I do get a nagging feeling in the gut to swap in one of the premium ones. But for what I use the gun( beater, steel cased) I'm just gonna run it til it breaks.
lol, I have a M&P 15 with an Osprey Defense piston kit in it with over 6000 rounds and the M&P 15 bolt looks perfect. And piston kits are known for their brutally hard unlocking of the bolts. And toolcraft doesn't even make the bolts that come in their carriers so that's a really unknow.
And who makes s&w ? Rumors are its microbest. All I'm saying is there's no internet scuttlebutt or group think to influence my decision. Hence the apprehension. If 12 anonymous people on the internet with dubious ties to any manufacturer affirmed my decision I probably wouldn't give it a second thought. Also if you noticed I've got spares for all my rifles. Not a dig at s&w.
(lot of sarcasm in this post btw)
Have the modern M&Ps still got a barrel gas port you can drive a semi through? My first AR was an M&P15T in around 2009ish. To be fair it's always gone bang but now I've got several other ARs it feel harsh and nasty to shoot even with a sprinco red spring and H2 buffer. Over several thousand rounds it has also broken a couple of ejector springs and there is a nice welt on the brass deflector which shows the cases are coming out with more force them they need to. It's been on the shelf for the last few years but I've just taken an interest again, got myself an adjustable gas block which I'm going to install when I get a minute to try and calm it down a bit.
the AR-15 Junkie
03-17-20, 03:39
Have the modern M&Ps still got a barrel gas port you can drive a semi through? My first AR was an M&P15T in around 2009ish. To be fair it's always gone bang but now I've got several other ARs it feel harsh and nasty to shoot even with a sprinco red spring and H2 buffer. Over several thousand rounds it has also broken a couple of ejector springs and there is a nice welt on the brass deflector which shows the cases are coming out with more force them they need to. It's been on the shelf for the last few years but I've just taken an interest again, got myself an adjustable gas block which I'm going to install when I get a minute to try and calm it down a bit.
.063 measured with pin gauge.
Not too bad then, although imo a little smaller is better on a 16 inch carbine barrel. I'll see what mine measures once I get round to removing the block and fitting the adjustable.
I was never looking at a Sport model, or any carbine length, only the magpul MOE mid-lengths. People were all negative on these at beginning of thread so I just ignored it. I’m sure it’s too late now to get a good deal. I had seen it for $600.
The Sports were sub 500 for a time. As of a week or so ago still deals on them ( included cases/ red dots etc. ) for just over 500. Now I dont know.
There haven't been any negative reviews in this thread, so far. That's fairly impressive, to me.
I think we get too caught up in the "fighting gun" mindset. For most folks there's probably a place for a .223 chambered sub $700 gun if they know what they're getting and aren't going to beat the piss out if it.
I think with this Corona shit going on it's gonna be awhile before most people are willing or able to" beat the piss " Out of alot of there guns. But let's say for the average guy you have a proven rifle as your hd gun. I don't see an issue buying an m&p/ruger/ stag/ palmetto, to run steel through and practice with even as an experiment to see how well and long the gun holds up. Just my opinion. If the gun is a duty weapon that your buying out of pocket spending a couple hundred more makes sense in that case. But op's first post was asking about a " beater" In my mind that is a gun you'll beat the piss out of with tula. My dept. uses pool weapons there is no provision for bringing in your own rifle period. It's also difficult to get the rifle for off duty training.I bought a M&P mid Magpul moe awhile back. S&w has an excellent reputation for warranty and customer service ,the gun had alot of extras and was priced well. I bought it to train fundamentals,shooting the cheapest bulk ammo I could afford. I'm not an operator in any sense. But for my purpose and budget the rifle made sense.
Colt Carson
03-20-20, 18:43
My M&P15 with Leupold is just as accurate as my brother’s LWRC with Trijicon. But then I’ve never been a fan of doing “mag dumps”.
BLACKROCK6
03-22-20, 13:09
They are very popular with police departments.
There haven't been any negative reviews in this thread, so far. That's fairly impressive, to me.
Ok, I'll give one. Had an ORC circa late 2011. Jammed like crazy after shooting steel through it. Cleaned it, lubed, changed ammo, mags, sent it back, everything.
Eventually just stopped using it. Didn't stop me from buying a Sport II, and I just paid for another rifle from them.
bobbytucson
03-24-20, 01:50
For what its worth, i bought a magpul edition m&p 15 and dont regret it. Suprisingly its very well built. I thought it was just cosmetic. Not at all. It shoots smooth, the gas port size is .73. Its also a mid gas length. The bolt has an magnetic particle stamp too. Its staked properly at castle nut and carrier keys. The barrel is 1/8 twist and shoots very tight groups at 36 yards. Im extremely impressed with it. Id buy another one in a heart beat
Colt Carson
03-24-20, 07:12
Are you saying the size of the gas port is three quarters of an inch???
They are very popular with police departments. I’m not saying its a bad rifle, because I don’t know, but this is not a good measuring stick for carbines.
Are you saying the size of the gas port is three quarters of an inch???
I think he lost a zero.
S&W ARs can go pound sand. I helped a guy on a budget get into ARs before the last election. He stretched his budget to be able to afford a M&P Sport ll. Eventually he upgraded the upper, which went to a different buddy of mine and had short stroking issues. When we narrowed the issue to the BCG, they told me the entire rifle would have to be sent in if they were to test and warranty the BCG. It's a BCG. I can swap It out with and watch the ejection pattern change for the worse and have lockback issues in other rifles that work great. (I reassembled the Sport's upper and barrel, and it'll be someone else's first upper.)
My first AR was an M&P15 bought in 2008. I believe it was made by Stag Arms. It ran well, but ate gas rings and needed the Blue Sprinco/H2 buffer for even weak ammo. I eventually chopped the gas block, put a BRT gas port insert in to reduce the gas flow, and installed an ALG rail before moving the upper on to a buddy as his first AR. I'll give it props for being accurate, but was definitely 2nd Tier compared to the Colt 6920 I owned after that. Also 2nd Tier compared to any rifle I've built with Sionics, Colt, BRT, or Centurion Arms components.
If it's all you can afford, I understand. But a Tier One rifle, M&P15s are not. That said, I really like my M&P Shield.
robbins290
03-24-20, 09:59
I still have 2 sports. one sport ii and one ORC with that crimson trace red dot. I know they are not combat weapons. But i do pound the crap out of them. And when something breaks. S&W will fix it. They will even replace a burnt out barrel. for a sub $500 complete rifle. they are great if you use it as a range toy only. Saves me from replacing the barrels on my colts every 2 years.
Colt Carson
03-24-20, 17:22
If it's all you can afford, I understand. But a Tier One rifle, M&P15s are not. That said, I really like my M&P Shield.
I would consider S&W AR15s mid-level if you bought one with a few extras, similar to their semi-auto pistols.
S&W ARs can go pound sand. I helped a guy on a budget get into ARs before the last election. He stretched his budget to be able to afford a M&P Sport ll. Eventually he upgraded the upper, which went to a different buddy of mine and had short stroking issues. When we narrowed the issue to the BCG, they told me the entire rifle would have to be sent in if they were to test and warranty the BCG. It's a BCG. I can swap It out with and watch the ejection pattern change for the worse and have lockback issues in other rifles that work great. (I reassembled the Sport's upper and barrel, and it'll be someone else's first upper.)
My first AR was an M&P15 bought in 2008. I believe it was made by Stag Arms. It ran well, but ate gas rings and needed the Blue Sprinco/H2 buffer for even weak ammo. I eventually chopped the gas block, put a BRT gas port insert in to reduce the gas flow, and installed an ALG rail before moving the upper on to a buddy as his first AR. I'll give it props for being accurate, but was definitely 2nd Tier compared to the Colt 6920 I owned after that. Also 2nd Tier compared to any rifle I've built with Sionics, Colt, BRT, or Centurion Arms components.
If it's all you can afford, I understand. But a Tier One rifle, M&P15s are not. That said, I really like my M&P Shield.
This has been similar to my experience as well.
I have a M&P15 (not the sport) from around the same time. It has been reliable with any ammo I feed it, but it is also over-gassed. Came with the 1 in 9 twist chrome barrel that shoots 2-2.5 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal 55grain and green tip. I've beat the piss out of it. I have a 6920 and a 6720 that are my "go-to" and backup rifles. So the Smith and Wesson has wound up being my tinkering gun. Got some new kit to try out? Throw it on the M&P to see if it works for me before it makes it to a serious gun.
Besides being over gassed, the front sight base VERY canted. To get a zero you have to drift the rear sight almost all the way to the right. This causes another issues where you cannot use a red dot with a lower 3rd co witness if the emitter is in the 5 O-Clock part of the window. The emitter of the sight blocks your front post from view.
Again, it's been reliable despite rough treatment. But it was clearly Smith and Wesson rushing to get something to market.
This has been similar to my experience as well.
I have a M&P15 (not the sport) from around the same time. It has been reliable with any ammo I feed it, but it is also over-gassed. Came with the 1 in 9 twist chrome barrel that shoots 2-2.5 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal 55grain and green tip. I've beat the piss out of it. I have a 6920 and a 6720 that are my "go-to" and backup rifles. So the Smith and Wesson has wound up being my tinkering gun. Got some new kit to try out? Throw it on the M&P to see if it works for me before it makes it to a serious gun.
Besides being over gassed, the front sight base VERY canted. To get a zero you have to drift the rear sight almost all the way to the right. This causes another issues where you cannot use a red dot with a lower 3rd co witness if the emitter is in the 5 O-Clock part of the window. The emitter of the sight blocks your front post from view.
Again, it's been reliable despite rough treatment. But it was clearly Smith and Wesson rushing to get something to market.
Their timing was almost impeccable. With the M&P Series of handguns entering the scene and the M&P15 series of rifles, they ran the potential to gather business from entire departments of LE. It would have been interesting to see how they would have fared had they increased quality control instead of decreasing it for a profit. Glock was in the throes of its Gen 4 problems, and I think they could have ran away with a lot of the market. Instead they chose to frustrate customers beyond the point of time Glock figured out its problems. Little things like twist rate and overgassing their rifles and not owning up to M&P9 accuracy issues sunk them would have made a big difference.
ThreeFingerPete
04-07-20, 23:06
S&W ARs can go pound sand. I helped a guy on a budget get into ARs before the last election. He stretched his budget to be able to afford a M&P Sport ll. Eventually he upgraded the upper, which went to a different buddy of mine and had short stroking issues. When we narrowed the issue to the BCG, they told me the entire rifle would have to be sent in if they were to test and warranty the BCG. It's a BCG. I can swap It out with and watch the ejection pattern change for the worse and have lockback issues in other rifles that work great. (I reassembled the Sport's upper and barrel, and it'll be someone else's first upper.)
My first AR was an M&P15 bought in 2008. I believe it was made by Stag Arms. It ran well, but ate gas rings and needed the Blue Sprinco/H2 buffer for even weak ammo. I eventually chopped the gas block, put a BRT gas port insert in to reduce the gas flow, and installed an ALG rail before moving the upper on to a buddy as his first AR. I'll give it props for being accurate, but was definitely 2nd Tier compared to the Colt 6920 I owned after that. Also 2nd Tier compared to any rifle I've built with Sionics, Colt, BRT, or Centurion Arms components.
If it's all you can afford, I understand. But a Tier One rifle, M&P15s are not. That said, I really like my M&P Shield.
Why would a company who sold a complete firearm warranty a piece of it if it had been split up and assembled into other parts? Think about how absurd that sounds.
Why would a company who sold a complete firearm warranty a piece of it if it had been split up and assembled into other parts? Think about how absurd that sounds.
It is only absurd if we refuse to think it through. I asked them to specifically test a bolt carrier group that was completely stock to how they sold it. Just the bolt carrier group. If they can take their unmodified bolt carrier group and see that it has an obvious problem specific to only the bolt carrier group, they should be able to identify and replace it. It did not function properly in their rifle, or any other rifle that I have tried. When I replaced it with a Sionics BCG the problem was solved. It is ultimately a wash the bigger picture, but they lose a few dozen customers for it. Unironically, this is a thread about how they fare as an AR manufacturer.
TLDR version: If you sell a defective BCG, replace it.
robbins290
04-08-20, 07:11
So you are made at smith and wesson for not checking a bcg only? for which it was sold in a rifle that it was head spaced for?
Try taking just a motor back to nissan for defective gas and piston in just the motor after you just bought a care. and tell them a chevy motor worked just fine in the car. Makes just as much sense to me.
I stand with Smith and wesson on this. And they would most likely pay for the shipping of the whole rifle. so why not send the whole rifle. If they are fixing it "FOR FREE"
So you are made at smith and wesson for not checking a bcg only? for which it was sold in a rifle that it was head spaced for?
Try taking just a motor back to nissan for defective gas and piston in just the motor after you just bought a care. and tell them a chevy motor worked just fine in the car. Makes just as much sense to me.
I stand with Smith and wesson on this. And they would most likely pay for the shipping of the whole rifle. so why not send the whole rifle. If they are fixing it "FOR FREE"
Not mad, just don't reccomend 2nd tier equipment, nor that level of customer support. I offered to ship it, and was more curious about what was actually wrong with it than anything else. Not worth their time. It is no skin off of my back in the least, as evidenced by my ability to replace my buddy's upper with a Sionics upper, rectify the issues with the S&W product, and let it be someone else's free burner as they make their way to a better product. The burn is that S&W was not even willing to take their own product back, inspect it, and replace it if faulty. I'm not sending the whole rifle back if the upper and lower are owned by two different people. Having rectified the issue of the faulty BCG, S&W's involvement is done, but I do not recommend the company for it's ARs based on both product and service, particularly when unquestionably good to go products are available in the same price range. My criticism of product is not based on the BCG, it is based on what they call a duty grade rifle not being a duty grade rifle.
robbins290
04-08-20, 07:42
"The burn is that S&W was not even willing to take their own product back, inspect it, and replace it if faulty. I'm not sending the whole rifle back if the upper and lower are owned by two different people."
Why the hell would they take there rifle back to inspect it when you blatantly admitted you butchered there rifle? Any company would says that its voided its warranty.
As far as smith and wesson goes. i have owned about 2 dozen over the years, from early 1900's revolvers to the M&P line. only a 2 had to go back. and they replaced them, no questions asked. I have 3 of there rifles. a mil spec (or the one thet "call" milspec), a Sport II and a ORC sport that came with a shitty optic. I use them as barrel burners. never had a issue. and if i did have a issue like you did, maybe you should have sent it back then, instead of butchering it.
"The burn is that S&W was not even willing to take their own product back, inspect it, and replace it if faulty. I'm not sending the whole rifle back if the upper and lower are owned by two different people."
Why the hell would they take there rifle back to inspect it when you blatantly admitted you butchered there rifle? Any company would says that its voided its warranty.
As far as smith and wesson goes. i have owned about 2 dozen over the years, from early 1900's revolvers to the M&P line. only a 2 had to go back. and they replaced them, no questions asked. I have 3 of there rifles. a mil spec (or the one thet "call" milspec), a Sport II and a ORC sport that came with a shitty optic. I use them as barrel burners. never had a issue. and if i did have a issue like you did, maybe you should have sent it back then, instead of butchering it.
Explain how I butchered the rifle.
robbins290
04-08-20, 07:57
Do i really need to explain that?
Do i really need to explain that?
You seem very emotionally invested in this. If your equipment works, rock on. I respect your opinion, and can certainly agree with you in respect to sticking to manufacturing policy. I simply think the policy should be different. I believe we've circled the drain enough on this issue, but would be happy to discuss further via PM.
robbins290
04-08-20, 08:59
PM sent
Get a room you two and let the sparks fly!
Get a room you two and let the sparks fly!
Lol. Scolding accepted!
Their timing was almost impeccable. With the M&P Series of handguns entering the scene and the M&P15 series of rifles, they ran the potential to gather business from entire departments of LE. It would have been interesting to see how they would have fared had they increased quality control instead of decreasing it for a profit. Glock was in the throes of its Gen 4 problems, and I think they could have ran away with a lot of the market. Instead they chose to frustrate customers beyond the point of time Glock figured out its problems. Little things like twist rate and overgassing their rifles and not owning up to M&P9 accuracy issues sunk them would have made a big difference.
Bingo! They made a line called military & police. And released firearms that were not duty weapons, at all. One of the main reason for getting rid of my M&P pistols. Was getting S&W out of my life
robbins290
04-08-20, 10:58
Get a room you two and let the sparks fly!
Lmfao! Thats a good one
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