View Full Version : Red flag MD pt 2
I don’t really have anything good to say about this. Just wanted to post it up as information. RIP to the young man.
SILVER SPRING, Md. -- A Maryland man was asleep in his bedroom when police opened fire from outside his house, killing him and wounding his girlfriend, an attorney for the 21-year-old man’s family said Friday.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/lawyer-man-asleep-police-fired-house-killing-69587748
“high-risk” search warrant related to unspecified “firearms offenses”
The PD owes the public a MUCH more detailed explanation. That's an incredibly insufficient response on their part for killing a man with no priors or warrants in his own bed in the middle of the night. :(
Yeah I’ve seen the buzz about this on a few FB pages I follow, although this is the first version of the story I’ve seen that suggests that the officers opened fire from outside of the house.
Here’s a follow up I just found. They’re saying he was a prohibited person and he was reported by a “public complaint”.
http://www.mymcpnews.com/2020/03/13/detectives-investigate-officer-involved-shooting-in-potomac-additional-information-released/?fbclid=IwAR0inufx09pAl3WufUsOdmZFDQn85mYlMGI9Rzjl_rVGYVBnZlZNgbq0HXI
PERSEC people, PERSEC!
Here’s a follow up I just found. They’re saying he was a prohibited person and he was reported by a “public complaint”.
http://www.mymcpnews.com/2020/03/13/detectives-investigate-officer-involved-shooting-in-potomac-additional-information-released/?fbclid=IwAR0inufx09pAl3WufUsOdmZFDQn85mYlMGI9Rzjl_rVGYVBnZlZNgbq0HXI
PERSEC people, PERSEC!
Those facts contradict the other article. And it’s put out by the pd, so I’ll take it with a grain of salt.
So search warrants are now given for "public complaints" ? Is that another phrase for "red flag"? Notice how after these botched raids under suspicious circumstances the LE agency always post pictures of the guns that were seized, as if that justifies an unjustified shooting. Fruit of the poisonous tree doesn't mean much when you are dead.
So search warrants are now given for "public complaints" ? Is that another phrase for "red flag"? Notice how after these botched raids under suspicious circumstances the LE agency always post pictures of the guns that were seized, as if that justifies an unjustified shooting. Fruit of the poisonous tree doesn't mean much when you are dead.
I believe the term you’re looking for is “SWATting”. :(
You carry a badge, you carry a responsibility. My opinion of what to pursue against ALL those involved, especially the trigger-puller, probably wouldn't go over well here, and I'm not a known cop-basher either.
Belmont31R
03-13-20, 20:37
So search warrants are now given for "public complaints" ? Is that another phrase for "red flag"? Notice how after these botched raids under suspicious circumstances the LE agency always post pictures of the guns that were seized, as if that justifies an unjustified shooting. Fruit of the poisonous tree doesn't mean much when you are dead.
Warrants are largely a joke and rubber stamped by the approving authority.
FISA is supposed to be super on the level because of the public trust aspect and agencies involved in the secrecy, and they have a SCOTUS judge who overseas the court. In most years you can can count on one hand or not even need a finger at all to see how many warrants were denied. Now imagine how bad warrant approval is at the lower local levels. If the highest courts can't even handle warrant approvals appropriately you cannot expect the rest of the judiciary system to do any better.
RFL's have even lower standards to meet than warrants and they are just a vehicle to turn gun owners into second class citizens who have to keep their guns a secret or be used as retribution. Imagine having a big social family and being known as the 'gun nut' in the family then over a holiday get together getting into a political argument with some leftist nutcase every family seems to have. They can RFL you saying you sounded threatening, rambling about conspiracies, seemed like a harm to others, etc. Its just another bullshit method for the police and leftists to attack gun owners when most states already have existing laws on handling mental health holds. Theres already a system in place to handle people who are a threat to themselves or others. Its one of the few 'mandatory reporting' circumstances Dr's and other professionals actually have to follow (like child abuse or medical issues). In fact we got mandatory reported to CPS because one of my kids had a head injury below 5 years old.
A 72hr mandatory hold can be extended and that's a basis for taking away someones rights through due process. My dad went through this a couple of years ago and was held for a couple of weeks in a psych hospital. My mom died about 10 years ago, and he met another woman just as a companionship thing. They 'dated' for a couple of years, and even traveled around the country for almost a year. Towards the end of their trip this lady was having memory issues, headaches, and other odd symptoms. Came back home and they found out she had brain cancer. My dad went kind of nuts about losing someone else and tried to kill himself with pills. After his psych hospital stay he was remanded to an assisted living facility. They took his drivers license. Had to sell his house and 1 year old King Ranch F350 he bought. Went from 2 years prior making $30k a month to a psych hospital, no license, and an assisted living facility. Thats a case where someone, through due process, and a proper court hearing where you can have representation to have your rights taken away.
RFL's are the opposite of that process, and should be ruled unconstitutional.
Maryland is already a draconian hell-scape and this incident sadly just highlights it even further.
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ramairthree
03-13-20, 22:24
Maryland is already a draconian hell-scape and this incident sadly just highlights it even further.
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I lived about 3 1/2 miles from Lock 21 for four years.
The area was nice.
The schools were nice.
The restaurants and stores were nice.
High School kids had newer and nicer cars than most working adults.
I think there were some crappy apartments near Travilah,
But the only crime I remember in the area were kids underage drinking, or getting caught with weed and cigarettes.
It was a very affluent and privileged area.
This place was probably like six miles from the house I had there. And I was in a tiny single family that would have been 250k in the 90s and now about 880k.
They launched a high risk zero dark thirty raid on a million dollar home in an affluent home for no violent crimes?
Yet again, why not just tail and roll him up as he’s waiting for his car at the valet in front of Cheesecake Factory
Or Ruth Chris?
I lived about 3 1/2 miles from Lock 21 for four years.
The area was nice.
The schools were nice.
The restaurants and stores were nice.
High School kids had newer and nicer cars than most working adults.
I think there were some crappy apartments near Travilah,
But the only crime I remember in the area were kids underage drinking, or getting caught with weed and cigarettes.
It was a very affluent and privileged area.
This place was probably like six miles from the house I had there. And I was in a tiny single family that would have been 250k in the 90s and now about 880k.
They launched a high risk zero dark thirty raid on a million dollar home in an affluent home for no violent crimes?
Yet again, why not just tail and roll him up as he’s waiting for his car at the valet in front of Cheesecake Factory
Or Ruth Chris?
Well they have to do something with all the funds generated by speed cameras everywhere since Maryland seems to have a higher concentration of them than any other state I’ve been in.
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Why was he a prohibited person? All articles seem to justify the murder for the fact that he was a “prohibited person.”
Why was he a prohibited person? All articles seem to justify the murder for the fact that he was a “prohibited person.”
Reports I'm seeing were connected to III%/Militia activity. Word on Boogaloo pages is he was working on a forum with extra layers of security for people to make connections and squad up. Probably inaccurate, but it's the best answer I've seen.
Reports I'm seeing were connected to III%/Militia activity. Word on Boogaloo pages is he was working on a forum with extra layers of security for people to make connections and squad up. Probably inaccurate, but it's the best answer I've seen.
Being connected to a militia makes you a prohibited person? This all smells funny.
Being connected to a militia makes you a prohibited person? This all smells funny.
No clue, but nothing else matches someone with nothing worse than a speeding ticket on his record. Considering what we've seen before, I wouldn't be surprised if they hit the wrong house, and will never own up to it.
Being connected to a militia makes you a prohibited person? This all smells funny.
No but it makes you a target of a repressive government.
How was this a red flag situation? Looks like a warrant for weapons violations.
How was this a red flag situation? Looks like a warrant for weapons violations.
Again, being Maryland, doesn’t take much.
There’s so much palpable irony in kitted out LARPers with select fire rifles coming down on the citizenry for anything primarily weapons related.
It’ll be interesting to see how this shakes out when the dust settles.
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Just Prince
03-14-20, 13:55
It wasn't a ERPO. He was prohibited likely because a psychiatric hold longer than 30 days.
It wasn't a ERPO. He was prohibited likely because a psychiatric hold longer than 30 days.
Something something due process, something assessing dangerousness...
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A psychiatric hold justifies a no knock warrant at 430am?
That’s “high risk?”
I assume the ERPO connection is from the two news stories. It states that the warrant was based on a “complaint from the public...” Who complained? That person needs to get nailed to a wall...
Just Prince
03-14-20, 15:41
A psychiatric hold will make a prohibited person. As for the grounds for the no knock. I'd have to read the warrant. But I'd gather the weapons in his possessions and some behavior ques. This wasn't some spur of the moment thing.
Md. Pub. Safety Code § 5-133.
A person may not possess a regulated firearm if the person:
Suffers from a mental disorder and has a history of violent behavior against the person or another;
Has been found incompetent to stand trial because of mental retardation or mental disorder;
Has been found not criminally responsible by reason of insanity;
Has been voluntarily admitted for more than 30 consecutive days to a mental health treatment facility; or
Has been involuntarily committed to a mental health treatment facility
Just Prince
03-14-20, 15:46
I get it folks want answers as to why this happened. The folks stirring the pot were staying Sheriff Popkin the Sheriff of Montgomery County was the shooter. Their a whole lot of misinformation out there. With the way the county council and county executive feel about the police in Montgomery County had their been any indication of wrong doing the shooter would have been suspended and charged by now.
A psychiatric hold will make a prohibited person. As for the grounds for the no knock. I'd have to read the warrant. But I'd gather the weapons in his possessions and some behavior ques. This wasn't some spur of the moment thing.
Md. Pub. Safety Code § 5-133.
A person may not possess a regulated firearm if the person:
Suffers from a mental disorder and has a history of violent behavior against the person or another;
Has been found incompetent to stand trial because of mental retardation or mental disorder;
Has been found not criminally responsible by reason of insanity;
Has been voluntarily admitted for more than 30 consecutive days to a mental health treatment facility; or
Has been involuntarily committed to a mental health treatment facility
And only a couple of these actually dance around the notion of whether someone is dangerous or not but hey it’s the law so it definitely must be beyond reproach.
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Reports I'm seeing were connected to III%/Militia activity. Word on Boogaloo pages is he was working on a forum with extra layers of security for people to make connections and squad up. Probably inaccurate, but it's the best answer I've seen.Supposedly mistaken identity.
platoonDaddy
03-16-20, 20:02
Found on another forum:
https://youtu.be/pV7u91A3KGQ
Just Prince
03-17-20, 16:26
On March 12, 2020, detectives from the Montgomery County Department of Police, with the assistance of the Special Operations Division – Tactical Unit, served a high-risk search warrant at a residence located in the 12200 block of St. James Road in Potomac, Maryland.
The search warrant was related to an investigation into a suspect identified as Duncan Socrates Lemp, age 21, of the 12200 block of St. James Road in Potomac, Maryland.
Detectives assigned to the Investigative Services Bureau received an anonymous tip at the beginning of the year, indicating that Lemp was in possession of firearms. Due to his criminal history as a juvenile, Lemp was prohibited from legally possessing or purchasing firearms in the State of Maryland until the age of 30. During their investigation, detectives learned of a number of firearms that Lemp was in possession of, to include various rifles and handguns that would ultimately be recovered from the residence. Detectives applied for and received a no-knock search warrant for the crimes of possession of an assault weapon and possession of a firearm by a prohibited person.
The search warrant on March 12, 2020, was served in the early morning hours, consistent with Montgomery County Department of Police practice. The officers entering the residence announced themselves as police and that they were serving a search warrant. Officers gave commands for individuals inside the residence to show their hands and to get on the ground. Upon making contact with Lemp, officers identified themselves as the police and gave him multiple orders to show his hands and comply with the officer’s commands to get on the ground. Lemp refused to comply with the officer’s commands and proceeded towards the interior bedroom door where other officers were located. Upon entrance by officers into Lemp’s bedroom, Lemp was found to be in possession of a rifle and was located directly in front of the interior bedroom entrance door.
During the service of the search warrant a device was discovered affixed to the inside frame of the exterior door leading to Lemp’s bedroom. Montgomery County Fire Marshals responded in order to render the device safe. The device was designed as a “booby trap” intended to detonate a shotgun shell at the direction of anyone entering through the exterior door into Lemp’s bedroom. After officers entered the bedroom, the other occupant of the room warned the officers to be careful of the device rigged to the exterior door. Statements from other occupants of the residence indicated they were aware of the dangerous device on the door.
Further statements from the other occupant in Lemp’s bedroom indicated that he slept with the rifle each night. Contrary to some information reported to the media, the same occupant also indicated that Lemp was out of the bed and standing directly in front of the interior bedroom door at the time the officers made entry into the bedroom.
Items collected from the residence included three rifles and two handguns as well as other items of evidentiary value.
This remains an ongoing investigation by the Major Crimes Division.
What crimes as a juvenile, specifically.
Again it’s not difficult to be deemed a prohibited person in Maryland.
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Just Prince
03-17-20, 16:59
Saying it's not hard to be a prohibited person in Maryland is a cop out.There are hundreds of thousands of us who are and remain so. He juvenile record is sealed. The department will not release that information. For juvenile crimes it takes some trying as the Maryland courts really aren't hard on juveniles in Montgomery County.
So the guy has a record - summary execution is the logical next step?
Saying it's not hard to be a prohibited person in Maryland is a cop out.There are hundreds of thousands of us who are and remain so. He juvenile record is sealed. The department will not release that information. For juvenile crimes it takes some trying as the Maryland courts really aren't hard on juveniles in Montgomery County.
Well someone sure as hell better release them considering they smoke checked a dude over possession of objects that were otherwise perfectly legal.
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Since when is “possession of a firearm by a prohibited person” a justification for a no knock warrant???? Seems a little risky...
So what was going on in the 2 months leading up to this since this guy was such an immediate threat to the community?
There’s simply no justification for doing a no-knock at 4am for a mala prohibita crime. Ever. They killed this guy in his bedroom under cover of darkness because he dared defy the crown, and they’re going to get away with it. :(
There’s simply no justification for doing a no-knock at 4am for a mala prohibita crime. Ever. They killed this guy in his bedroom under cover of darkness because he dared defy the crown, and they’re going to get away with it. :(Becareful you will be labeled a cop basher.
Just Prince
03-17-20, 18:57
So the guy has a record - summary execution is the logical next step? stop being dramatic.
When the police hit your house because your are flaunting weapons you know you gave up your right to own by committing crimes . You draw a weapon on them and point it at them. Then disobey the command mcp police the drop gun after it's given a few times to You dictate the outcome. Had he dropped the firearm we wouldn't be discussing this.
stop being dramatic.
When the police hit your house because your are flaunting weapons you know you gave up your right to own by committing crimes . You draw a weapon on them and point it at them. Then disobey the command mcp police the drop gun after it's given a few times to You dictate the outcome. Had he dropped the firearm we wouldn't be discussing this.
And that will be the same story when the possession of firearms by private citizens is criminalized in general.
stop being dramatic.
When the police hit your house because your are flaunting weapons you know you gave up your right to own by committing crimes . You draw a weapon on them and point it at them. Then disobey the command mcp police the drop gun after it's given a few times to You dictate the outcome. Had he dropped the firearm we wouldn't be discussing this.
Swing and a miss.
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stop being dramatic.
When the police hit your house because your are flaunting weapons you know you gave up your right to own by committing crimes . You draw a weapon on them and point it at them. Then disobey the command mcp police the drop gun after it's given a few times to You dictate the outcome. Had he dropped the firearm we wouldn't be discussing this.
Issa no from me dawg. My rights aren’t derived from some policy or law. You’re not special cause you wear blue.
Averageman
03-17-20, 23:44
If there were ever a mix of two possible volatile events coming together, it's a no knock raid and red flag laws.
Nobody on either side of this event is going to admit that they might have been wrong.
But unfortunately one of them can no longer tell their side of the story and the other simple won't.
Still waiting on the body cam footage. If it supported the PD's side, it would have been released days ago. Crimes as a juvenile shouldn't impact your rights as an adult unless it's damn serious. We won't know if that's the case because they are sealed. As it stands, we have a man who exercised his rights and was murdered trying to defend his home from heavily armed agents of the crown in the early morning hours. The murderers will, of course, get away with it because they're not bound by the same laws as the "little people." Yay, our legal system.
Whiskey_Bravo
03-18-20, 09:01
Still waiting on the body cam footage. If it supported the PD's side, it would have been released days ago. Crimes as a juvenile shouldn't impact your rights as an adult unless it's damn serious. We won't know if that's the case because they are sealed. As it stands, we have a man who exercised his rights and was murdered trying to defend his home from heavily armed agents of the crown in the early morning hours. The murderers will, of course, get away with it because they're not bound by the same laws as the "little people." Yay, our legal system.
What this guy said.
This Duncan Socrates Lemp was some kind of a high tech egghead, if you search for his bio online. Not the normal hillbilly cracker with bad teeth and guns. This guy did Habitat for Humanity and was involved in bio-information, Pharmacology and cyber security. More of a Theodore J. Kaczynski (Unabomber) type of person. It did say he had some kind of IED with a shotgun shell rigged to his bedroom door frame.
It would be interesting to know what kind of juvenile crimes he did commit which would follow him until age 30? Sometimes it's deviant behavior like strangling small animals, attempted copulation with farm animals or something else. I am guessing this guy may have been a wack job who didn't help his image in society at large. Who knows......???
Today I learned the officers of the crown in MD have their own bill of rights. How convenient!
https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2017/public-safety/title-3/subtitle-1/
Becareful you will be labeled a cop basher.
I spent over 15 years as a deputy sheriff and I was saying the same thing then. The use of no-knock warrants was pretty limited even then and it should be extremely rare now. "Knock & Crash" warrants were much more prevalent and just as dangerous, and WAY overused IMO. There are safer ways to apprehend scofflaws is all I'm saying.
Family is pushing back against the departments story.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-mystery-deepens-over-the-pre-dawn-police-killing-of-duncan-lemp/
“The family’s statement notes: “The actual search warrant and sworn statements therein were sealed by the judge upon request of the police at the time the warrant was filed for 30 days.” So the public will not learn until April 11 at the earliest why Montgomery County police chose to use a violent predawn raid on someone who, according to court records, had engaged in no criminal activity since he was a juvenile.”
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