View Full Version : Which B&T APC to buy?
I tried posting this in Beyond 556.....sub forum but no replies so Mods delete other please.
I'm itching to buy one of these B&T lovelies. They come with a brace, without, a K version....
Do they have a suppressed and an unsuppressed setting?
I don't know squat about these guns so any insight would be greatly appreciated. All I know is they are supposed to be LEGIT +
I told my wife it was a Corona killer, so she is in!
Is it the best sub gun available today? I have a MPX and Mp5 (Zenith) and both have been very reliable once broken in. And I really like both. (The MPX had a short break in period)
My LGS has one in 45acp, hmmmmmmm
PB
I have an APC9 that I converted to an SBR. It’s a blowback design so there is no gas setting to adjust for suppressor use . Basically just load a mag , charge and pull the trigger . It operates flawlessly. The pro version adds a non reciprocating charging handle and the ability to change the grip to an AR pattern grip. Both the pro and non pro 9mm allow give you the option to change the lowers so that you can use Glock or SIG P320 magazines depending on your preference. I have not changed mine because I don’t like the angle of the magazine . The shorter k is the one that was selected by the military for use by security details. I like the 9mm because the three lug barrel is also comparable with other 9mm three lugs and there is wide availability . I personally run mine exclusively with a Rugged 9. The 45 mount is not as universal which makes it difficulty but not impossible to find. My APC9 with 147gr 9mm rounds and it’s suppressor is ridiculously quiet. Hopefully this answers what you were looking for .
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Eurodriver
03-18-20, 18:48
There is a B&T thread in the other semi automatic rifles forum. G&R and JoshNC both sell APC9 Pistols.
https://i.imgur.com/OGqiVnb.jpg
Fits great in a backpack. It’s an awesome little pistol for when an AR is a bit big but a handgun is a bit small. With a can it sounds just a bit louder than a 9mm Glock based on my Mk1 dB Ear-o-Meyer.
I have 1200 rounds through mine and not a single issue of any kind. I didn’t even clean it before I shot it.
There is a B&T thread in the other semi automatic rifles forum. G&R and JoshNC both sell APC9 Pistols.
https://i.imgur.com/OGqiVnb.jpg
Fits great in a backpack. It’s an awesome little pistol for when an AR is a bit big but a handgun is a bit small. With a can it sounds just a bit louder than a 9mm Glock based on my Mk1 dB Ear-o-Meyer.
I have 1200 rounds through mine and not a single issue of any kind. I didn’t even clean it before I shot it.
Wicked set up, I'm really wanting one. They have a 45 in my LGS, but think I might prefer a 9 even though my MPX and Zenith are in 9mm. is your the K model.
PB
Eurodriver
03-18-20, 19:12
Nah that’s the standard. The K is pretty sick but I needed rail estate for an IR laser for NV. Otherwise I probably would’ve ran with a K.
You will not regret it man. I promise.
hotrodder636
03-18-20, 19:58
I am 152.4% in agreement with Euro. Great piece of kit. Super slick and well put together. I have one, no pics—minus the light, laser module, and shit MP grip—mine is the same (I use the BCM grip :) )
I really really want one. I had a dealer who was willing to send just the upper to my dealer in CA and I was purchase it as an off roster LE pistol. I would then have work on fixing the magazine on the lower. My local dealer wouldn't accept it and while I was looking around for a new local dealer, the panic started!!! Once things settle down I will try again.
Here is a picture of my APC9 with a Rugged 9 suppressor attached. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200319/0599df8b1fcfce73524b75b315f0547c.jpg
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Or, you can buy two of the Stribog (9mm only) for less money, Here is mine in "pistol" form. They are making a delayed roller variant, but this one already shoots as smooth as my MP5, and is selling for $600. The pistol/ stock adds another $125 or so, or you can go the SBR route, or you can pick up the pieces you want to "pistol" brace it yourself.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/885be6f257c6cf2b6074dc76e3a85c06/22c0b7f9caab44ef-d2/s1280x1920/1533682a80f4f098a7622de0933f68a5b9afaf9e.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/787fe91fc8ebf288d3be00caedf39c7a/a1ab78939dce360d-7a/s1280x1920/be90f3c0080c904431dcda855ac3e6e85b833618.jpg
Not sure how owning two of lesser offering is “better” though. Guess it just depends on ones needs.
[emoji2373]
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For you gents running the APC or the Stribog, are you having any issues with hollow point ammunition?
Eurodriver
03-19-20, 11:57
For you gents running the APC or the Stribog, are you having any issues with hollow point ammunition?
No. I run 147gr Gold Dots.
I have been intermittently shooting Gold Dot 124+ P and Gold Dot 115, through a Glock magazine APC9 Pro with no issues so far.
Mr McSimon
03-19-20, 14:10
Or, you can buy two of the Stribog (9mm only) for less money, Here is mine in "pistol" form. They are making a delayed roller variant, but this one already shoots as smooth as my MP5, and is selling for $600. The pistol/ stock adds another $125 or so, or you can go the SBR route, or you can pick up the pieces you want to "pistol" brace it yourself.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/885be6f257c6cf2b6074dc76e3a85c06/22c0b7f9caab44ef-d2/s1280x1920/1533682a80f4f098a7622de0933f68a5b9afaf9e.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/787fe91fc8ebf288d3be00caedf39c7a/a1ab78939dce360d-7a/s1280x1920/be90f3c0080c904431dcda855ac3e6e85b833618.jpg
So are you saying you don't see a benefit to the delayed roller version (A3), even with a can?
I pulled the trigger on a B&T APC Pro 9 . I went with the full sized because I too like the extra real estate and feel like its small enough already for my liking. If I buy another way down the road, I might get a K version.
Really looking forward to banging on this bad boy.
PB
hotrodder636
03-19-20, 17:52
No issues with GDs, HST or Critical Duty in my APC9 Pro.
For you gents running the APC or the Stribog, are you having any issues with hollow point ammunition?
Dirtyboy333
03-21-20, 19:58
I pulled the trigger on a B&T APC Pro 9 . I went with the full sized because I too like the extra real estate and feel like its small enough already for my liking. If I buy another way down the road, I might get a K version.
Really looking forward to banging on this bad boy.
PB Nice!!! I have the OG style APC 9 and I have 5,700 rounds through without a failure of any kind whatsoever (from shot #1). I know that sounds like BS but it’s honest truth. I’ve shot all different weights of ammo and different brands but I’ve only shot one box of hollow points (50). The simple blowback design aids to its reliability and so does the buffer in the rear. I think the buffer allows them to not have to be so careful in regards to “tuning” or trying to find a good reliable middle ground for hot or weak ammo. They can allow the bolt to cycle with less pressure ( for weaker Ammo) while also not worrying about beating your gun up with hotter Ammo.
I’m pretty confident you will find that your MP5 clone will be softer and smoother shooting. The APC will jump a little more but it comes right back down on target. My SP5K SBR is softer shooting but my APC has such a superior trigger that I am still quicker with it regardless. I absolutely love it and it’s tied for my favorite gun I own (other being the APC223)
Why so little 'love' for the 45ACP variants?
Is it a mag issue, plinking issue, availability or, something else? One thing that attracts, in addition to everything else, is the fact it is available in 45ACP unlike the re-released HK MP-5 options. I get Glock/SIG magazine compatibility in a D.O.D. context but, for me that isn't a driving factor.
Nice!!! I have the OG style APC 9 and I have 5,700 rounds through without a failure of any kind whatsoever (from shot #1). I know that sounds like BS but it’s honest truth. I’ve shot all different weights of ammo and different brands but I’ve only shot one box of hollow points (50). The simple blowback design aids to its reliability and so does the buffer in the rear. I think the buffer allows them to not have to be so careful in regards to “tuning” or trying to find a good reliable middle ground for hot or weak ammo. They can allow the bolt to cycle with less pressure ( for weaker Ammo) while also not worrying about beating your gun up with hotter Ammo.
I’m pretty confident you will find that your MP5 clone will be softer and smoother shooting. The APC will jump a little more but it comes right back down on target. My SP5K SBR is softer shooting but my APC has such a superior trigger that I am still quicker with it regardless. I absolutely love it and it’s tied for my favorite gun I own (other being the APC223)
Thanks Dirty, Im really looking forward to it.
PB
Why so little 'love' for the 45ACP variants?
Is it a mag issue, plinking issue, availability or, something else? One thing that attracts, in addition to everything else, is the fact it is available in 45ACP unlike the re-released HK MP-5 options. I get Glock/SIG magazine compatibility in a D.O.D. context but, for me that isn't a driving factor.
I think its all of the above. Ammo cost, the mags cost $100 vs $46, I alost bought a .45 at my LGS, but it was the older version. I still might buy one.
PB
I pulled the trigger on a B&T APC Pro 9 . I went with the full sized because I too like the extra real estate and feel like its small enough already for my liking. If I buy another way down the road, I might get a K version.
Really looking forward to banging on this bad boy.
PB
Super jealous. I definitely want one of these will all of my Glock mags. The Stribog won’t be relevant to me until they at least do that.
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https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/21/shot-2020-bt-reveals-apc10/
I mean, if you're considering the 9mm and .45 already.. why not throw 10mm in the ring?
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Man....I really need a 9mm carbine. Just dont have the money now.
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Rainier has a few left in stock currently.
Price seems good too.
https://www.rainierarms.com/b-t-apc9-pro-pistol-w-sb-brace-9mm/?sc_src=email_1265869&sc_lid=78552275&sc_uid=uOJQLNUmJ8&sc_llid=60566&sc_eh=d97a3547837712c11&utm_source=Emarsys&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=New+Products+03-23-2020
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Eurodriver
03-23-20, 16:40
That isn't a bad price for one with a brace.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/21/shot-2020-bt-reveals-apc10/
I mean, if you're considering the 9mm and .45 already.. why not throw 10mm in the ring?
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I own nothing in 10mm, probably never will. I thought about one for a hunting sidearm.
I bought mine for $2350 with free shipping. Didnt come with a brace though. I have one leftover after SBRing my Zenith Mp5. Might SBR it it too. My guy engraves for free too, so I had him do it just in case. Tar Heel Firearms just listed some APC's in FDE, that hurts because I would have bought FDE for $100 more. Damn.
PB
I own nothing in 10mm, probably never will. I thought about one for a hunting sidearm.
I bought mine for $2350 with free shipping. Didnt come with a brace though.
PB
I'm of the same mindset with 10mm. I've done away with everything I own that isnt 5.56 or 9mm at this point, just no point in owning stuff I won't shoot. (Though I wouldn't mind a LMT/KAC in 6.5CM).
For anyone looking for an APC9K Pro, Arms Unlimited just sent out an email on them. $2,350 and in stock as of now.
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Brugger-Thomet-APC9-PRO-9mm-Semi-Auto-Pistol-p/bt-36045.htm
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RetroRevolver77
03-30-20, 08:09
Delete.
I picked up my B&T APC9. My initial impression is that it is very high quality, very smooth and the trigger is pretty nice for a stock trigger. I ran a couple different rounds, standard 115grain and 147 grain 900 fps stuff. Both ran without issue. I ran it in an indoor range so I forgot to try out my suppressor. Love the Tri lug adapter and the safety is not as difficult to run vs my Mp5.
I tossed on a Sig Romeo for now and the BUIS they supplied. Happy with my weapon.
PB
For those that have the APC9 and an MPX, how dirty does the APC9 get? I’m always astonished how dirty my lower gets on my MPX.
I’m pretty confident you will find that your MP5 clone will be softer and smoother shooting. The APC will jump a little more but it comes right back down on target. My SP5K SBR is softer shooting but my APC has such a superior trigger that I am still quicker with it regardless. I absolutely love it and it’s tied for my favorite gun I own (other being the APC223)
Have you suppressed the APC223 yet and if so, did you have to change anything? Good chance my next purchase will be a APC223 or APC308, looking at the Surefire SOCOM-SB2 and SOCOM 762RC2 depending on which gun I get.
For those of you with the Stribog, what SB brace does it use? I have one for the APC I planned on getting because I found it on sale and I'm wondering if it will work on the Stribog.
Dirtyboy333
05-11-20, 22:43
Have you suppressed the APC223 yet and if so, did you have to change anything? Good chance my next purchase will be a APC223 or APC308, looking at the Surefire SOCOM-SB2 and SOCOM 762RC2 depending on which gun I get.
Sorry man I just saw this reply. So I currently have my first 556 can in jail (griffin Recce 5). However, I did shoot it with someone else’s can and it was insanely smooth on that suppressor setting. Felt like a different gun and like it was made to be suppressed from the start. Those short 30 rounds are the only experience I have with it suppressed but the consensus on all the user data I have read is that it’s one of the best 556’s to suppress. On the Facebook B&T forum (I know, I hate Facebook too), a lot of the guys have scars, brens etc. and they all rave about the apc223 suppressed.
Eta and no you don’t need to change anything. Just flip the regulator
I have 2 cap pros in 10mm on the way.
I have 2 cap pros in 10mm on the way.
Damn those will be some bad bad boys. But why 2?
PB
Damn those will be some bad bad boys. But why 2?
PB
Going to SBR one. Keep one as a truck/heavy woods gun. 110 grain to 220 grain. Change the mag, change the capability.
Anyone have time on the SD version? Wondering how/if it can perform without the can.
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Is the SD THE K ? Shot my buddies K version and it shot very much like mine. If that’s what your asking.
Dirtyboy333
08-23-20, 14:34
Anyone have time on the SD version? Wondering how/if it can perform without the can.
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From everything I’ve seen you’re not supposed to shoot it without the can because of the ports in the barrel. However, it does come with a nut that covers up the ports I think it’s there for safety in case somebody does decide to shoot it without the can. I don’t think you’re going to get the manufacture to tell you it’s OK to shoot without but I may be wrong. It would probably work just you would want to be sure those ports are sealed up with someThing strong ie: the steel nut maybe.
Dirtyboy333
08-23-20, 14:36
The SD is the integrally suppressed model like the MP 5SD. It has ports right in front of the chamber that will slow regular NATO ball ammo down just enough to be subsonic by the time it exits the barrel but bleeding off the gas
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-06-20, 13:39
That isn't a bad price for one with a brace.
LGS has a Pro k in true pistol config, no brace.
On brace options, is the collapsible one really like $600? Is that because it has an all new back end cap in with the buffer assembly?
The folding SB option for a brace, does that use the installed back end?
I assume that the collapsible stock is much more space efficient than the side folder? if so I really like the collapsible version better, do they sell a version with the brace already installed so you’re not double buying the back end buffer assembly?
When I was looking at the gun through the glass, the barrel looks like it just has a threaded cap on it, not a tray like adapter. Do they come with a trailer adapter in the box or is that something you have to buy separately?
What is the ETA on the straight board a the roller delayed version?
I have an ACP9 also, bought it before the Pro version came out.
I want two more, a Pro in .45, and a K in 9mm.
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LGS has a Pro k in true pistol config, no brace.
On brace options, is the collapsible one really like $600? Is that because it has an all new back end cap in with the buffer assembly?
The folding SB option for a brace, does that use the installed back end?
I assume that the collapsible stock is much more space efficient than the side folder? if so I really like the collapsible version better, do they sell a version with the brace already installed so you’re not double buying the back end buffer assembly?
When I was looking at the gun through the glass, the barrel looks like it just has a threaded cap on it, not a tray like adapter. Do they come with a trailer adapter in the box or is that something you have to buy separately?
What is the ETA on the straight board a the roller delayed version?
The tailhook brace cost a fortune, ask me how I know. You have to buy the tailhook and brace. Ends up being more like $700 ish. If you go with folding stock or Tailhook, they will go directly on the pistol. You could ask Tarheels State firearms and see if he would put your desired stock on before shipping. Very accommodating guy.
I ran the brace firstly and yes the tailhook is more real estate friendly but at a premium cost.
The barrel has a permanent tri-lug adapter
Good luck
PB
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-07-20, 20:39
https://tarheelstatefirearms.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_123&product_id=544
Like this? What is the:
B&T APC10 Telescopic Brace Adapter to allow use of Gear Head Works Tailhook
The tail hook adds Over $100?
https://tarheelstatefirearms.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_123&product_id=544
Like this? What is the:
B&T APC10 Telescopic Brace Adapter to allow use of Gear Head Works Tailhook
The tail hook adds Over $100?
I bought my brace/tailhook from a buddy that bought two because he is a maniac. He said they will come into the market then be unobtainium for months.... So, I didn't complete the purchase, I just gave him the $$$ he told me I owed. APC10 is for the 10mm version. I think the APC9/45 are one in the same but 10 might be different.
Yes, the tailhook adds another bean to the cost. And there are two versions of the tailhook. The one Big Army went with is smaller and used on their K version guns. But mine is slightly larger and is more comfortable. My buddy went K and smaller tailhook to get the exact clone which I never give a fck about.
PB
ruckusjuice
09-08-20, 14:53
Are people finding the Glock mag configuration as reliable as the OEM configuration. I had always read that most SMG mags were designed to be double-stack, double-feed (like an AR mag) as opposed to double-stack, single-feed (like standard handgun mags) because it would make the gun more reliable. Does that only matter when firing in full auto?
nateholl3@yahoo.com
09-25-21, 17:15
LGS has a Pro k in true pistol config, no brace.
On brace options, is the collapsible one really like $600? Is that because it has an all new back end cap in with the buffer assembly?
The folding SB option for a brace, does that use the installed back end?
I assume that the collapsible stock is much more space efficient than the side folder? if so I really like the collapsible version better, do they sell a version with the brace already installed so you’re not double buying the back end buffer assembly?
When I was looking at the gun through the glass, the barrel looks like it just has a threaded cap on it, not a tray like adapter. Do they come with a trailer adapter in the box or is that something you have to buy separately?
What is the ETA on the straight board a the roller delayed version?
I have the K mode and it comes with a tri lug adapter. Underneath is 1/2x28 and comes with a thread protector. The APCP Pro barrel just accepts tri lug if I'm not mistaken. The folding braces on the market do use the rear end cap. You remove one 4mm screw and the plate comes off and the brace goes on. Super easy. There are a few and there there's my favorite. I really like the Tommy Built Tactical UMP Brace https://tommybuilttactical.com/ump-brace?___SID=S but it's pricy compared to the SB Tactical.
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-25-21, 20:35
On brace options, is the collapsible one really like $600? Is that because it has an all new back end cap in with the buffer assembly?
The folding SB option for a brace, does that use the installed back end?
I assume that the collapsible stock is much more space efficient than the side folder? if so I really like the collapsible version better, do they sell a version with the brace already installed so you’re not double buying the back end buffer assembly?
I got the side folder because I just couldn't stomach the $700 brace. At some point when the brace ban goes through I will SBR it and get the factory collapsable (which also costs a fortune). The folding brace is an excellent...brace...but it is a regular old plastic side folder so it is definitely going to take up more space.
I have done the dive on these. I have the APC Pro in 9mm and I have the APC in 10mm (I also have the chassis systems in both those calibers). My experience is that the APC 9K is just too short for a general purpose PCC. Rail space is very limited. If I wanted a super compact, capable 9mm PCC, I'd go with a Glock chassis and a Glock 17/34 instead of a APC 9K. it does the same thing and is a lot smaller and lighter.
Tech Smith Manufacturing makes a great side folding stock for the APC. It works great. So does everything they make, for that matter.
I have to say I absolutely love my APC 10mm. I put the telescoping brace (and yes its expensive) on it and mounted all accessories at 12 or 6 oclock and pulled the 3 and 9 panels off the gun. It is super flat and fits into a laptop case. It is another world in terms of power. I can put a 220 grain hard cast through 30inches of tissue (say a bear), 180 grain JHPs work out well past 100 yards, and you can put out 100 grain round at 1850 FPS. That is basically a rifle. Its really a remarkable system and is an ideal "braced pistol" that fits between the standard PCC and something like a Rattler in a rifle caliber. The only issue is magazines. Glock mags work. SGM mags work (but have to be rammed into the gun), and the ETS mags are sketchy. I'm going to grind a little on the SGM mag around where the mag catch locks.
These guns are really excellent. If they made a pro lower that took 45ACP Glock mags, I think they would dominate the 45 acp market too.
Are people finding the Glock mag configuration as reliable as the OEM configuration. I had always read that most SMG mags were designed to be double-stack, double-feed (like an AR mag) as opposed to double-stack, single-feed (like standard handgun mags) because it would make the gun more reliable. Does that only matter when firing in full auto?
I have about 30 B&T mags and god knows how many glock mags. I use both lowers. I haven't seen any difference in reliability. I will say that having a Glock 19 on your belt,, a G 17 in a chassis in a console safe, and an APC in a safe under the seat, is pretty handy. Because of that, I use the Glock lower exclusively and use the B&T mags in my TP9. That "system" is also doable in 10mm, although the mag story isn't as good.
crosseyedshooter
10-01-21, 21:40
I bought the Pro Glock version because of all the issues I’ve read about the B&T mags. Unfortunately, I shoot left-handed and the G lower isn’t exactly ambidextrous. Due to how the mag release works, the left-side mag release isn’t anywhere near the trigger finger.
I have done the dive on these. I have the APC Pro in 9mm and I have the APC in 10mm (I also have the chassis systems in both those calibers). My experience is that the APC 9K is just too short for a general purpose PCC. Rail space is very limited. If I wanted a super compact, capable 9mm PCC, I'd go with a Glock chassis and a Glock 17/34 instead of a APC 9K. it does the same thing and is a lot smaller and lighter.
Tech Smith Manufacturing makes a great side folding stock for the APC. It works great. So does everything they make, for that matter.
.
Any way you can send me a link to this stock, for some reason I can’t find it. Looking to sbr mine and I’m having trouble finding enough USA made parts.
Also wondering if adding a Haga Defense butt pad to a retractable brace assembly would make it a “USA” made stock?
https://hagadefense.com/apc9-butt-pad/
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