View Full Version : Need help choosing progressive press
CrowCommand
03-19-20, 08:01
I've been loading for 5 years or so now, on a turret press and single stage. Calibers include 9mm, .45ACP, .223, and .308. I'm looking into getting a progressive, specifically a Dillon.
Money is tight, so I don't need all the bells and whistles to start. I'd like a press that can crank out pistol rounds primarily, but have the option to load rifle as well. I'm pretty sure this rules out the Square Deal B...Dillon's site doesn't seem to list a 650 any more, is the 550 the one for me? I'm not opposed to buying used if the price is right....
I have a RL550B. I don't like to use it to resize and decap rifle brass, because I wind up with case lube in the primer feeder. A gummed up primer feeder makes it difficult to reload pistol ammunition. I loaded a lot of good .223 ammunition with brass that was already prepped before I reloaded it on the press.
I bought a RCBS Rock Chucker press for reloading rifle ammunition. If I wanted to I guess I could resize and decap brass on the Rock Chucker, then finish the loading process on the RL500B, but I don't. I drop and weigh charges, then seat rifle bullets on the Rock Chucker after I prep the brass.
I owned a Square Deal B press before I bought the RL550B and it worked well enough for me to reload a lot of pistol ammunition. If I had to do it all over again, I would have bought a Square Deal B, a Rock Chucker and a good powder drop system.
Well the 550 is out, is not a progressive press.
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fedupflyer
03-19-20, 11:06
The 750 is the updated 650.
If you can afford it, I would get the 1100 (which is the updated 1050).
I bought the 650 and was in the same quandary. In retrospect, I should have gotten the 1050 and I will probably upgrade in the near future.
If you are only doing one pistol caliber the 650/750 is fine.
The 1050/1100 has built in swagging which to me is huge. Plus the head has more room and is easier to setup case prep and trimming for rifle calibers.
I've been loading for 5 years or so now, on a turret press and single stage. Calibers include 9mm, .45ACP, .223, and .308. I'm looking into getting a progressive, specifically a Dillon.
... is the 550 the one for me? I'm not opposed to buying used if the price is right....
Basically, yes, buy a 550.
Good luck finding one used... They hold their value well.
If I wanted to I guess I could resize and decap brass on the Rock Chucker, then finish the loading process on the RL500B, but I don't.
This seems to be the "normal" way to do this. I'm set up to do this.
Well the 550 is out, is not a progressive press.
Huh?
I think you don't understand what "progressive" means in this context.
If you can afford it, I would get the 1100...
Non-starter... He said money is tight.
Also, an auto-indexing 750 or 1100 would be a much steeper learning curve than a manual-indexing Square Deal or 550.
CrowCommand
03-19-20, 12:42
Thanks fellas. So auto indexing is the shell plate advancing with each pull of the lever? I understand the 550 does not do this, and must be rotated manually after each function, correct me if I am wrong.
Right now, I load all my rifle rounds on a Rock Chucker and pistol is loaded on a Lyman All American turret press. I'm only interested in the single stage for rifle at the moment, as I'm going for consistency and accuracy. Ideally, I would eventually load blaster/admin drill ammo on the progressive, once I find a decent load on the SS.
223to45 - Can you elaborate? Is it because the 550 is not auto indexing?
So auto indexing is the shell plate advancing with each pull of the lever? I understand the 550 does not do this, and must be rotated manually after each function, correct me if I am wrong.
Right.
My experience, and that of several other experienced reloaders I know: The 550 is waaay faster than a single-stage press and plenty fast for virtually all of us.
Auto-indexing speeds things up even more, but unless you're loading a LOT of ammo, the returns diminish rapidly (more cost, less benefit).
Also, if something goes wrong on an auto-indexing press, then it quickly becomes a real moose-mess...
Perhaps it's because I'm simple-minded, but I find it verrrry easy to set up and trouble-shoot the 550 because I can do the same operation in the same station more than once WITHOUT the press advancing the shell plate. (My only press is a 550, and I use it for everything.)
The manual indexing of the 550 is awesome. It gives complete control of the process.
223to45 - Can you elaborate? Is it because the 550 is not auto indexing?
Yeah, I was interchanging progressive as auto indexing.
My bad.
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The manual indexing of the 550 is awesome. It gives complete control of the process.
I find that if I make a mistake, a primer misfeeds or there is another issue, the RL550B manual advance feature makes it easier to correct.
Hornady Lock-N-Load AP is a high value press with 100% warranty. I have two and it will actually load straighter ammo than a Dillon, but is somewhat more finicky. Once you get it tuned it works. One of mine didn’t wear out any parts until 100,000 rounds of 9mm. Hornady replaces the parts free.
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The 550b is a superb press for the money. The primer feed is smooth, the primer seating on the up stroke is sensitive enough to feel the anvil bottom out in the primer pocket, the powder measure does well metering up to h322 and varget. I dont weigh charges anymore and find my chronograph data gives acceptable SD values with the 550b.
The not great,
1. The used primer cup sucks. Many of us use a single stage to deprime anyway.
2. Spilled powder plays some havoc with the shell plate rotation. Compressed air works wonders!
3. The powder meters don't have gauges or any indicator of volume. Pain in the ass recalibrating the measure between loadings. I have 4 different complete tool heads. Really wish there was some way to record in my journal the meter setting for each load...
I've been loading for 5 years or so now, on a turret press and single stage. Calibers include 9mm, .45ACP, .223, and .308. I'm looking into getting a progressive, specifically a Dillon.
Money is tight, so I don't need all the bells and whistles to start. I'd like a press that can crank out pistol rounds primarily, but have the option to load rifle as well. I'm pretty sure this rules out the Square Deal B...Dillon's site doesn't seem to list a 650 any more, is the 550 the one for me? I'm not opposed to buying used if the price is right....
Well, the 550 is progressive but manual indexing, meaning you rotate the base plate.
The 550C is what they have and it’s versatile and faster than a Square deal.
The 750 replaced the 650 which is an auto indexing reloading press.
If money is tight, the Hornady Lock N Load progressive auto indexes and is a much cheaper option.
I have 4 Dillon 550 and 1 Dillon 450.
I have 2 single stage Hornady Lock N Load presses, also, so I understand the pain.
Another option is a turret press which is a step up from single stage. I have an RCBS and Lee turret. It is double the output from a single stage.
Look in FaceBook marketplace, gun groups, eBay and craigslist. It doesn’t hurt to find some used equipment.
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I had a tough time making the decision to pull the trigger on a Dillon 650. But am so glad I did. I reload 45acp, 223 and 308 win match grade ammo on it. You won’t regret it one bit. I resize and load in the same pass on it. If I need to trim, then yes it has to be done in two stages. If money is tight, avoid the case feeder. The 650 is really worth it though. It’s a solid platform. I did notice though that Redding dies work better on it than rcbs.
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1. The used primer cup sucks...
Hmmm... Mine "misses" now and again, and then I have a used primer on the floor.
No big deal. The Roomba sucks 'em right up. (It also sucks up loaded cartridges!)
2. Spilled powder plays some havoc with the shell plate rotation. Compressed air works wonders!
Yes, compressed air is good, or now I keep a Makita "dustbuster" right next to the bench.
I also re-assigned one of the little brushes that came with a cordless razor to clean around the shell plate...
3. The powder meters don't have gauges or any indicator of volume. Pain in the ass recalibrating the measure between loadings. I have 4 different complete tool heads...
You're doing it wrong.
Buy an extra powder measure bar (just the adjustable bar, so $20-25) for each toolhead/caliber.
Then, change out the bar with the toolhead, and the bar will always be set correctly (or at least as correct as it was when you last used it).
I load for eight calibers, and have a "pre-set" powder bar for each one...
Bimmer,
Would it really inconvenience Dillon to put some reference marks on the powder bar? I will not have separate powder measure bars for separate 556 loads.
Karl
Edited for minor correction.
As Bimmer stated, you don’t need a tool head for each load....just the powder measure bar.
I label mine with the grains of a particular powder they’re set for. Changing them takes less than a minute.
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Pain in the ass recalibrating the measure between loadings.
I will not have separate powder measure bars for separate 556 loads...
So, it's not enough of a pain in the ass that you won't spend $20 or $25 to fix it?
Would it really inconvenience Dillon to put some reference marks on the powder bar?
You're right, it wouldn't be a big deal...
Something like this wouldn't cost Dillon more than a few pennies per machine:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-Precision-Powder-Thrower-Adjustment-Knob-Screw-Assembly-with-Graduation/302046554591?epid=849762724&hash=item465360a9df:g:5iYAAOSwJ7RYSWfV
Dillon could be better about watching what the aftermarket is selling and at least offer as an option a version of Uni-Tek's "micrometer":
https://www.ebay.com/itm/UniqueTek-Micrometer-Powder-Bar-Kit-Enhances-the-Dillon-Powder-Bar/223929656185?hash=item34233f6379:g:K7AAAOSwu7xbqR0k
(I'm not associated with either of these products and I don't have or even want them.)
My ghetto solution: I drew a line across the head of each adjustment nut with a Sharpie, as a witness mark, so that it's very clear if it moves or what fraction of a turn I'm making...
I have also used a sharpie mark on several powder bars for reference. Changing powders and components for various loadings with in the same cartridge necessitates knowing your volume settings. Helps with repeatability.
I just got a Brother label printer from Costco for $20 (!), and now it's easier than ever to label toolheads, powder bars, etc.
It'll print a self-adhesive label small enough to stick on the end of a "small" powder bar...
While I'm self-isolating, I'm going berserk with the label maker...
I just got a Brother label printer from Costco for $20 (!), and now it's easier than ever to label toolheads, powder bars, etc.
It'll print a self-adhesive label small enough to stick on the end of a "small" powder bar...
While I'm self-isolating, I'm going berserk with the label maker...
This is exactly how I label mine.
SeriousStudent
03-20-20, 19:29
.....
While I'm self-isolating, I'm going berserk with the label maker...
LOL - you too? My gun room is going to be sooooooooooooo well organized when this is over.
I have been using a Dillon progressive since 1978. My first was a Dillon 450B without the removable tool head and manual primer and powder system. My first 550 was obtained in 1988 used in excellent condition with multiple tool heads, powder measures, and accessories. I obtained a 550B from a friend who was upgrading to a 650. My 4th and final Dillon was a used BL 550 which had been upgraded to a 550B. I paid $250 each for the last two presses with accessories. I like the fact that I can control the pace and indexing manually which comes in handy when you have a problem at any station on the press. I can load both rifle and pistol rounds on all of them, but usually deprime/resize/trim rifle brass on my Rock Chucker or Lyman Spar-T. I have one 550B set for large pistol/rifle primer calibers and two 550's set up for small rifle/pistol calibers. I have numerous toolheads with dies and powder measures preset for each caliber and load so I only have to change the shellplate and locator pins.I normally leave the 450B set up for 5.56.I can easily maintain 400 + rounds per hour when I have filled primer tubes in advance.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/jrHuZW.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pojrHuZWj)
I helped a friend set up a Dillon 750 yesterday. I have a 650 and I think they did a nice job redesigning the primer system. Very much simplified it and it seems pretty bombproof in comparison.
I helped a friend set up a Dillon 750 yesterday. I have a 650 and I think they did a nice job redesigning the primer system. Very much simplified it and it seems pretty bombproof in comparison.
I don’t have to much complaint about the 650 primer system. That is after I got used to adjusting the tension bar to keep the case over the primer. I do have mishaps with the bar the plastic piece that slides the case from the case feeder to station 1 though when loading 556. It seems to like to tip the cases over. That and the cases dont always drop correctly from the case feeder tube into the swinging arm.
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I don’t have to much complaint about the 650 primer system. That is after I got used to adjusting the tension bar to keep the case over the primer. I do have mishaps with the bar the plastic piece that slides the case from the case feeder to station 1 though when loading 556. It seems to like to tip the cases over. That and the cases dont always drop correctly from the case feeder tube into the swinging arm.
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My issue with the primer system is flipped or primers turned sideways. I actually just diagnosed it in the last week and it turns out that the powder station unlocking from the case on flaring gives enough of a jolt to the press to turn the primer. I need to secure my bench to the wall so there is less movement but in the interim, slowing down as reduced the flips to zero. Case feed for me seems to be ok for the most part but yeah, loading 5.56 can be finicky and more prone to powder spillage.
hotrodder636
03-22-20, 08:05
I too have a Hornady LNL and am very pleased with it. No issues for me yet. I have used the Dillons and in comparison, though the LNL does take a little more time to “tune”, I think the LNL is an underrated press.
I also have a Rockchucker single stage for ‘match’ rifle ammo.
Hornady Lock-N-Load AP is a high value press with 100% warranty. I have two and it will actually load straighter ammo than a Dillon, but is somewhat more finicky. Once you get it tuned it works. One of mine didn’t wear out any parts until 100,000 rounds of 9mm. Hornady replaces the parts free.
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Pistol - Hornady LNL progressive
Rifle - Hornady LNL Iron Single stage
Shotshell - MEC 600 Jr
Very satisfied with all of them.
I have two 550B’s, one setup for small primers, the other for large. I load 308, 223, 9mm and 45acp on these machines. Precision ammo and development on my RockChucker. You have to fine what works for you. All reloaders have strength and weakness, When it comes to info on the Dillion’s, Brian Enos web site has a plethora of info.
I didn't see anyone mention this. If you go with the 650/750 I would almost consider the case feeder mandatory. If you do not intend on getting the case feeder then the 550 would be the best bet for you in my opinion. I did the 650 without a case feeder for awhile and it was a pain feeding cases. Not sure if the 750 is different from the 650 for not having a case feeder.
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I didn't see anyone mention this. If you go with the 650/750 I would almost consider the case feeder mandatory. If you do not intend on getting the case feeder then the 550 would be the best bet for you in my opinion. I did the 650 without a case feeder for awhile and it was a pain feeding cases. Not sure if the 750 is different from the 650 for not having a case feeder.
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Totally agree with your post. I ran with no case feeder for a few weeks waiting for mine to come in, totally messes with any rhythm you get going. And the 750 is no different with regard to the case feeder, basically a must have like you noted.
Dillon 550b and Rock Chucker owner here. The Dillon has been used for 9mm, 10mm and .45. I have dies for .38/.357 (crimp die as well) the RC is for rifle (right now .308). The Dillon is very easy to set up and the manual indexing feature is nice to give more control over the loading process. I am not a “fast” reloader by any means. As some one famous once said “speed is fine but accuracy is final”. If you do get a Dillon, invest in a “skylight” from inline fabrication. It bathes the shell plate in bright light so as to see into each case before bullet seating. Can’t recommend one enough.
I will not have separate powder measure bars for separate 556 loads.
I have also used a sharpie mark on several powder bars for reference...
Heads-up... This guy on eBay is selling powder bars for <$15, shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DILLON-LARGE-POWDER-BAR/174229406863?hash=item2890e1c48f:g:kF0AAOSwWWxeeXph
I'm not affiliated (but I did just order four more bars).
Also, FYI, a 9mm label fits perfectly across the back of a small powder bar...
Bimmer,
Thanks for the lead. Good price. Good advice.
Karl
If you want the best get the Dillion
CrowCommand
04-09-20, 10:18
Thanks for all the responses, I'm going to probably pull the trigger on a 550B when my stimulus check comes in... That, or a barrel for my MK12ish build. Decisions, decisions....
I have a 650 and have been contemplating getting a 550, but if you do any kind of rifle loads, this is where the 650/750 shines because of the case feeder. You can add a case feeder to the 550, but you are only able to do pistol ammo. So my suggestion would be to get a 650/750 with a case feeder so you have some flexibility. I am looking at a second 650/750 to do either large primers on or may set it up just to do case prep with a Honey Badger setup.
I also have a Redding T7 Turret press that I use for load development and have been looking at getting a Big Boss II for .308 and magnum ammo.
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