View Full Version : Affordable Reliable Lightweight Carbine
Cincinnatus15
03-20-20, 15:04
Maybe this is asking too much but what would you recommend for an affordable, lightweight, and reliable carbine for the purpose of HD and training? All that's going on it will be a sling, light and maybe red dot. Hope ya'll are staying healthy. Thanks.
Edit: Would like to try and keep the entire build under a grand.
Rifle: colt, bcm, solgw, sionics (or some others) $900 ish
Light: streamlight of choice ($100)
Sling: slingster, vcas, vtac... $40
Dont forget mags and ammo.
Don’t forget sighting system cost; RD/scope.
$200- (can’t find infinity key)
For the price you can look at a Sig Tread as well. Usually less than $800. Sig Romeo red dots are decent as well and priced less than $150. For light I'd go a streamlight or even the olight Valkyrie, the non rechargeable version.
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You could also check Palmetto State. I think for the price they are decent guns that should serve you well.
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Maybe this is asking too much but what would you recommend for an affordable, lightweight, and reliable carbine for the purpose of HD and training? All that's going on it will be a sling, light and maybe red dot. Hope ya'll are staying healthy. Thanks.
Edit: Would like to try and keep the entire build under a grand.
Somewhat contradictory when you are talking about getting a carbine, and in the next sentence you are talking about building one.
Let us know what you are looking to do, and we can figure if we are giving you decent info or just blowing smoke you can't use....
Buy a good lower. Sionics uppers are on clearance at Westernsport. You’re welcome.
justin_247
03-20-20, 19:25
SOLGW Loyal 9: $950
https://sonsoflibertygw.com/the-legacy-16-mid-gas-liberty-fighting-trigger/
Done.
Somewhat contradictory when you are talking about getting a carbine, and in the next sentence you are talking about building one.
Let us know what you are looking to do, and we can figure if we are giving you decent info or just blowing smoke you can't use....
Brother I think he’s referring to gun, light, sling, and RD in terminology of “build”
Colt 6720, BCM, DD$, and quite a few others
That PSA premium (complete rifle) with the FN upper I saw on slickguns earlier at $650 is tough to beat (for the money) though you’ll have to vet it first.
I have gotten excellent results in the past from the PSA FN-barreled uppers but it’s been some time (5 years or so) since I owned one.
With all the trash-talk lately about PSA, I’d want to check it up and down to ensure it’s built right.
If you have the dollars and lack the patience or know-how to fix any issues, then I would do as others suggest and buy known quality like solgw, BCM, etc.
Still, the money saved could always help with optics or ammo if you’re on a budget.
justin_247
03-21-20, 10:52
... With all the trash-talk lately about PSA ...
The PSA "trash talk" is completely legitimate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nupt3c-tQbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-F2gWqSdog
If this is your first rifle and perhaps only rifle, the only sensible decision is to purchase from a good company that doesn't have a history of QC problems.
I'm going to summarize my brief AR15 experience(s) here. Any firearm might have QC issues, but it may be by choosing a good company and spending more, problems and down-time might be mitigated.
I also thought to budget myself when I bought my first AR15 and went with a Springfield-Armory "Saint". It was just under $1000 out the door. It had some features I heard were the way-to-go: MLOK full length handguard, mid-length gas system, came with good Bravo Company stock & grip, and included good back-up iron sights.
It took me 2 years to get through 4,000 rounds. During this time I experienced ~1.5% primer blowouts and case rims ripped off. I thought it was just bad ammo. If I only shot .223 instead of 5.56mm, I may never had noticed. Blowing out primers can totally disable an AR15 (transition to handgun time).
At that 2 year mark, I contacted Springfield-Armory and they had me send the rifle back. ~1.5 months later, they repaired the rifle (talked about in a thread somewhere in M4Carbine.net) by reaming the chamber and replacing the bold carrier group. I think many folks would have just switched to shooting .223 only or never have gotten to this round count.
Going back to ~year 2000, my first issued AR15 was a brand-new Colt. I only had this gun for less than a day as it was immediately chewing up the bolt's gas rings. The department Range Master determined there was some kind of burr in the bolt carrier and then issued me a previously-issued Colt, but with a proven reliable track record.
That 2nd Colt later had a failure when the stock loosened while constantly being shaken in a patrol SUV; resulting in some parts getting lost. I think the parts were some safety/selector switch detent parts, as I recall.
On my 2nd personally-bought AR15 I bought a Bravo Company AR pistol which so far has proven 100% reliable, but of course at additional initial cost out-the-door.
For me, I'd now rather go with a less-mass-produced AR15. Should I buy a 3rd AR15, I'm thinking of a Daniel Defense, another Bravo Company (aka BCM), or maybe try a much-talked-about-here Sons of Liberty Gun Works (aka SOLGW).
Hammer_Man
03-21-20, 13:25
I would recommend buying the most rifle you can for $1k, and purchasing the accessories later. Being that Colts are not available right now, I would recommend a basic Sionics, SOLGW, or maybe BCM. All three can be had near $1k, and would be good enough to bet your life on. Learn to shoot with your iron sights, and save up for an Aimpoint PRO.
The PSA "trash talk" is completely legitimate.
That may be so but I have not had any issues with their premium uppers. I do not have first hand experience with the other offerings (freedom, ptac, etc.) so I am not going to speak one way or another on those.
I think it’s a moot point anyway as the $650 complete rifle deal is OoS as of last night.
I would recommend buying the most rifle you can for $1k, and purchasing the accessories later. Being that Colts are not available right now, I would recommend a basic Sionics, SOLGW, or maybe BCM. All three can be had near $1k, and would be good enough to bet your life on. Learn to shoot with your iron sights, and save up for an Aimpoint PRO.
I second this.
Mossberg's AR-15, the "MMR", seems to now be gone from Mossberg's website after 3 or 4 years. I'm not recommending this brand, nor discouraging it either, as I've no experience with it at all. I didn't want to start a new thread just for this brand which probably didn't sell well in this market, but thought this current thread was as good a place as any to mention it. I haven't yet done a search here and apologize in advance if it's old news to everybody else already.
So I remember being in your position 8 or so years ago and when I asked what can I get that's amazing for cheap, I was honestly told some of the best advice, you can't. Now I am by no means telling you that they're aren't ways and means of doing things that can fit your price range, instead, if you want 1 rifle, from 1 company, I would wait and have about $1500 for a rifle and another $200 for irons, sling and a light, and then invest another $500 (as of a month ago at least) in ammo. That said I would do the following.
BCM Upper with an Aero Lower. Seriously approximately $600-$900 for a decent rifle I would trust my life with and can handle a beating.
I would also second Sionics, SOLGW, PWS and a few others that seem to escape me.
vicious_cb
03-21-20, 23:57
Are people really gonna recommend a f***ing PSA during a flugaloo? This advice is not only stupid, its irresponsible, potentially putting people at risk that take this retarded advice.
This just ticks me off, "its a great deal, derp, but you might need to troubleshoot and fix it if anyone goes wrong." He sure gonna have an easy time troubleshooting and fixing his gun during a lock down. How many monkeys at PSA are gonna be at work to take your RMA I wonder?
PSA tards really to need to go in a hole somewhere until this all blows over.
Find a legit a Colt, LMT, or BCM. SOLGW makes good guns but their wait times might be too long before a lockdown hits, make sure whatever you order is in stock ready to ship.
Maybe this is asking too much but what would you recommend for an affordable, lightweight, and reliable carbine for the purpose of HD and training? All that's going on it will be a sling, light and maybe red dot. Hope ya'll are staying healthy. Thanks.
Edit: Would like to try and keep the entire build under a grand.
Staying healthy so far, thanks.
Hear you go, assuming you don't have a bunch of ar specific tools:
LaRue Ultimate Upper - with 16" PredatAR barrel for lightest weight option (792.00) https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/ (look at what the kit contains - everything but the stripped lower)
Aero Precision GEN 2 stripped lower (72.99) https://aimsurplus.com/aero-precision-ar-gen-2-lower-receiver/
B5 Systems Trigger Guard (7.95) https://aimsurplus.com/b5-systems-trigger-guard-polymer-black/
Total price - $872.94 (plus shipping) and your gonna love the way it shoots.
My LaRue 6.5 Grendel weights 9.4 with a Leupold 3.5x10 Vari-X mounted - it has the heavier 18" 6.5G barrel and the LaRue Billet lower, pretty sure with the lighter 5.56 PredatAR barrel and Aero forged lower, you'd be close to the 7.1 LaRue quotes for their complete PredatAR rifle.
Good luck.
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/
26, do you use the Tranquilo brake and furniture?
How do you like the upper-handguard connection?
I don’t have plans to purchase, but this is something I’ve been looking at for a friend who will be buying soon.
Not everyone needs a ~$1500 rifle with another ~$1000 of optics, lights, etc.
Being in a house of one, if the SHTF and I needed a 5.56 rifle, my KAC LPR is hard to beat but, you are talking over $2K without optics, lights, etc.
For a ranch rifle riding in a SxS, a 'better' cheap AR-15 works just fine. In the trunk of a civilian car, your average commercial AR-15 will serve the vast majority just fine once they shoot it enough with whatever ammo they use to prove its basic reliability. Ammo and Mags are a vital component so, spending a ~$1,000 and more for lights, lasers, etc. and then buying cheap ammo because you blew your budget on a red dot or scope negates to a large degree the rest of your purchase.
Secondly, run your rifle setup every once and a while so, unlike the one in the Squad CAR/SUV that shook the stock loose or dropped lower parts, you know it is OUT OF SERVICE before you really need it. This applies to all rifles, even my KAC LPR because stuff happens when they sit neglected in the trunk of a car, rifle rack of a pickup/tractor/SxS, etc.
If you really don't require an AR-15, a bolt action or lever gun MIGHT be a better choice for many people though, it won't be the best option to turn back the zombie hordes. For an LEO in a non-urban area, a solid bolt or lever action is often overlooked. If local politics and police rules allowed it, personally I'd be looking at a classic 30-30 as I won't be needing a 600 yard rifle, I might need more oomph that a 5.56, and they are a common and known quantity. Personally, for an RV motorhome rifle, a 44Mag lever gun is light and handy and a lot less likely to draw unwanted attention out and about than an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.
For a fun rifle to plink and light training, I'd argue a cheaper AR-15 might be better because IF you have a magazine problem, BCG failure, etc. you really want to train to handle those failures before you ACTUALLY need your rifle, of course this assumes your 'duty' weapon is in good order and available (i.e. cheap AR-15 in the SxS with the chainsaw and hay bales, and KAC LPR at the house ready to go).
So, context matters:
Second or third rifle for non-'duty' use, PSA, S&W, Springfield, whatever from a known quantity
Only rifle or 'duty' rifle, save up for a premium brand that is proven. Budget only for the rifle. Once you have the rifle, then worry about optics, lasers, etc.
Case in point, I'll take my KAC LPR with back-up irons by itself with one good magazine and ammo over a BCM or other favored brand with a ~$1,000 of optics and other accessories. Case in point right now as any potential 'field of fire' is inside 200 yards, a cheap red dot works just fine. No, I won't produce social media brag worthy groups but, that isn't the point either. If it will smoke feral hogs (and dogs being an issue right now), with appropriate justification it would do the same to someone that means me or those I care about harm.
Maybe this is asking too much but what would you recommend for an affordable, lightweight, and reliable carbine for the purpose of HD and training? All that's going on it will be a sling, light and maybe red dot. Hope ya'll are staying healthy. Thanks.
Edit: Would like to try and keep the entire build under a grand.
A White Oak upper (WOA SPR with BCG (https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/shop/complete-uppers/spr-sdm-uppers/white-oak-spr-upper-223-5-56-wylde-18-mid-gas-or-rifle-gas-1-7-or-1-8-twist.html)) and a solid lower group would easily be under a $1,000 for most people and a really good option.
While not a 'pencil barrel' upper, a mid-weight barrel with rifle or intermediate gas is a really nice option that is within your price range is where I would start my search.
I feel bad for people who ask this question sometimes. So many wildly varying opinions and answers.
However, in the spirit of what m4carbine.net is, the more serious user, for a first rifle or only rifle, don’t be QC guinea pig for PSA et al. Buy the most rifle you can for a grand and shoot irons. Then save for an Aimpoint Pro, T1/H1/T2 or even an MRO. The previously mentioned BCM, SOLGW, Sionics will serve you well and would be considered the start point for duty grade (imo).
MountainRaven
03-22-20, 12:31
I would recommend buying the most rifle you can for $1k, and purchasing the accessories later. Being that Colts are not available right now, I would recommend a basic Sionics, SOLGW, or maybe BCM. All three can be had near $1k, and would be good enough to bet your life on. Learn to shoot with your iron sights, and save up for an Aimpoint PRO.
I feel bad for people who ask this question sometimes. So many wildly varying opinions and answers.
However, in the spirit of what m4carbine.net is, the more serious user, for a first rifle or only rifle, don’t be QC guinea pig for PSA et al. Buy the most rifle you can for a grand and shoot irons. Then save for an Aimpoint Pro, T1/H1/T2 or even an MRO. The previously mentioned BCM, SOLGW, Sionics will serve you well and would be considered the start point for duty grade (imo).
Get a weapon light first. Then a sling.
Get an RDS after.
...
So, context matters:
Second or third rifle for non-'duty' use, PSA, S&W, Springfield, whatever from a known quantity
Only rifle or 'duty' rifle, save up for a premium brand that is proven. Budget only for the rifle. Once you have the rifle, then worry about optics, lasers, etc.
Case in point, I'll take my KAC LPR with back-up irons by itself with one good magazine and ammo over a BCM or other favored brand with a ~$1,000 of optics and other accessories. Case in point right now as any potential 'field of fire' is inside 200 yards, a cheap red dot works just fine. No, I won't produce social media brag worthy groups but, that isn't the point either. If it will smoke feral hogs (and dogs being an issue right now), with appropriate justification it would do the same to someone that means me or those I care about harm.
I feel bad for people who ask this question sometimes. So many wildly varying opinions and answers.
However, in the spirit of what m4carbine.net is, the more serious user, for a first rifle or only rifle, don’t be QC guinea pig for PSA et al. Buy the most rifle you can for a grand and shoot irons. Then save for an Aimpoint Pro, T1/H1/T2 or even an MRO. The previously mentioned BCM, SOLGW, Sionics will serve you well and would be considered the start point for duty grade (imo).
Exactly! Many people buy a lesser rifle so they can get a bunch of mall Ninja stuff they can't use and don't really understand. Buy the best rifle you can first if it is your one and only or, a duty weapon or, a SHTF rifle. Other stuff can be added later IF IT IS NEEDED, IF NOT YOU STILL HAVE A GOOD RIFLE TO COUNT ON WORKING WHEN YOU NEED IT!
26, do you use the Tranquilo brake and furniture?
How do you like the upper-handguard connection?
No, I don't use the brake as it isn't compatible with my suppressor.
I use the LaRue furniture, but, I'd like to add this isn't a rifle I spend much time standing and shooting, I'm usually prone, off the bench, or some other supported position. The LaRue grip suits me fine for this rifle's application, all my other rifles have B5 Type 23 grips.
I really like the upper-guard connection, especially the top rail union, it looks seamless.
I don't have many rounds through this, less than 500, but it is a shooter. I got it with the intent of doing some precision rifle matches. That hasn't worked out because if I shot precision rifle in addition to my other firearms activities I'd never be in church.
If your friend is anticipating getting a LaRue lower to make a complete rifle, my advice would be order them at the same time. I bought my rifle just before they started offering lowers, so when I ordered the lower several months later the colors weren't an exact match. That may not be an issue as I didn't see any color other than black offered last time I looked.
Also, it probably isn't a big deal, but I don't believe you'll find the LaRue upper to be compatible with extended bolt catches - see this picture:
https://static.larue.com/media/images/UUK_MLOK-50417.JPG
I don't think your friend would regret getting one at all.
Excellent, thanks for the info
Cincinnatus15
03-23-20, 13:02
Thanks to everyone who replied. As of midnight tonight Ohio will be locked down until April 6. So, it looks like I may have some extra time to save. I have an IWC mount for standard A2 style hand guards (assuming it fits) and a Surefire Fury I can mount to it. I like minimalism in my weapons, couldn't care less about looks. I'm not mounting a PEQ-15 or anything crazy so standard hand guards work just fine for me. Also have a few slings laying around I can throw on it. From what has been recommended I'm going to just budget for the rifle as recommended and add an Aimpoint Pro down the road. I've got 10-15 mags or so laying around and some stocks.
Colt had the perfect place in the market with the basic reliable carbine around the $7-800 mark. Too bad they pulled out of the civi market, big mistake IMO. Hopefully they'll be back.
With all of that being said I'm taking a hard look at this one: https://sonsoflibertygw.com/the-legacy-16-mid-gas-liberty-fighting-trigger/
I have a Sprinco Blue Spring and H2 buffer, not sure if that is optimal with a mid-gas set up?
I was forced to sell all my stuff off a couple years ago and just trying to get a nice basic reliable rifle to have in case I need it.
Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.
Grand58742
03-23-20, 13:51
I have a Sprinco Blue Spring and H2 buffer, not sure if that is optimal with a mid-gas set up?
I've been running a Springco blue and H2 in my midlengths for years. Zero problems.
556NatoFlash
03-23-20, 14:46
All these lock downs are going to last WAY longer than April 6. I hope Donald Trump finally comes to his senses and listens to what the experts are telling him. He needs to shut the frack up and let the grown ups manage this situation and he can cheer them on and take credit.
Cincinnatus15
03-23-20, 15:04
I agree it's going to last much longer. Well into Summer I would say.
Yes...lock it all down except gas/grocery/pharmacy. The virus has already mutated twice and each time has gotten more severe.
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MountainRaven
03-23-20, 15:38
We already have a thread for discussing Wuhan flu.
Hammer_Man
03-23-20, 16:30
Thanks to everyone who replied. As of midnight tonight Ohio will be locked down until April 6. So, it looks like I may have some extra time to save. I have an IWC mount for standard A2 style hand guards (assuming it fits) and a Surefire Fury I can mount to it. I like minimalism in my weapons, couldn't care less about looks. I'm not mounting a PEQ-15 or anything crazy so standard hand guards work just fine for me. Also have a few slings laying around I can throw on it. From what has been recommended I'm going to just budget for the rifle as recommended and add an Aimpoint Pro down the road. I've got 10-15 mags or so laying around and some stocks.
Colt had the perfect place in the market with the basic reliable carbine around the $7-800 mark. Too bad they pulled out of the civi market, big mistake IMO. Hopefully they'll be back.
With all of that being said I'm taking a hard look at this one: https://sonsoflibertygw.com/the-legacy-16-mid-gas-liberty-fighting-trigger/
I have a Sprinco Blue Spring and H2 buffer, not sure if that is optimal with a mid-gas set up?
I was forced to sell all my stuff off a couple years ago and just trying to get a nice basic reliable rifle to have in case I need it.
Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.
Looks like a good blaster. Hope it all works out for you.
Cincinnatus15
03-23-20, 17:57
Thanks brother
...
With all of that being said I'm taking a hard look at this one: https://sonsoflibertygw.com/the-legacy-16-mid-gas-liberty-fighting-trigger/
I have been looking at that exact rifle myself. For something that isn't super spendy but a solid good hard use rifle you can depend on, it looks like a bargain to me.
You could certainly spend a lot more and do a lot worse! :secret: Don't spread the word until we get our orders in, the wait is already long enough!
All these lock downs are going to last WAY longer than April 6. I hope Donald Trump finally comes to his senses and listens to what the experts are telling him. He needs to shut the frack up and let the grown ups manage this situation and he can cheer them on and take credit.
Did you come here to troll? The weapon sections are not the place for Anti-Trump posting. If you can't control yourself more than that, you may very well find yourself gone in short order. If you came here to talk about weapons, welcome to the board. This is just a friendly reminder that this board is run a bit tighter than some other weapon forums, however, the information here tends to be much better due to that.
Voodoochild
03-24-20, 15:19
How did this go from a topic on reliable carbine to this crap? Oh I know members who have nothing better to do than troll.
SeriousStudent
03-24-20, 20:14
Because 556NatoFlash is our resident troll, Paul McCain. Now banned again for I think the 24th time? I had to go count.
Bye Paul. Jeez, you can't even spell NATO correctly - it's an acronym and therefore capitalized.
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