View Full Version : AMMO? (GUN/AMMO SHORTAGES, DISCUSSION HERE)
Patriotne12
03-20-20, 20:30
I know why there is no ammo, when do you all think they will replenish!
I've checked and all the online retailers are empty and all thats left is the shit ammo!
I'm needing mucho 5.56 60-70 Grain!
When everyone stops freaking out.
I do think the no congregating aspect of this may tone down the shortages by making scalping less feasible.
I know why there is no ammo, when do you all think they will replenish!
I've checked and all the online retailers are empty and all thats left is the shit ammo!
I'm needing mucho 5.56 60-70 Grain!Just hoping that 5.56 doesnt end up like .22lr after Sandy hook taking years to stabilize.
Although a lot of people stocke up while the getting was good, maybe all this pa.ic buying will result in a big used market after all is said and done.
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I've always kept a huge supply of M855 62 grain stuff for my newer AR's. I've been doing some retro builds with 1/12 barrels and realized I was short of 55 grain XM193. So that's what I've been buying lately. No panic, just a realization I didn't have enough of one type of ammo.
Remember when .22 LR was scarce? Now it sits in stacks at the local gun store. Ammo seems to be cyclical in demand. In fact I have in my pile of ammo unopened boxes of .22 LR from the 1970's that my Dad put away - some of it with the now defunct Montgomery Wards branding on it. In dry New Mexico, this stuff lasts forever.
As long as Lake City is still operational, resupply shouldn't be an issue.
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BoringGuy45
03-20-20, 22:05
People at least are just buying the cheap range stuff. There was only a slight shortage of JHP round for pistol ammo when I was at the store the other day, and good quality 5.56 stuff like Mk318 was still available. Yeah, you pay a little more, but most people aren't going to the range in this crisis, so I'm not worried about cheap training stuff right now anyway.
5.56 being tough to get is the first thing that's made sense in a long time when it comes to panic buying. I couldn't figure out why 22 LR of all things was so rare after Sandy Hook. Right after Obama got elected the first time, it was .380 that completely dried up without any explanation.
Straight Shooter
03-20-20, 22:14
I've always kept a huge supply of M855 62 grain stuff for my newer AR's. I've been doing some retro builds with 1/12 barrels and realized I was short of 55 grain XM193. So that's what I've been buying lately. No panic, just a realization I didn't have enough of one type of ammo.
Remember when .22 LR was scarce? Now it sits in stacks at the local gun store. Ammo seems to be cyclical in demand. In fact I have in my pile of ammo unopened boxes of .22 LR from the 1970's that my Dad put away - some of it with the now defunct Montgomery Wards branding on it. In dry New Mexico, this stuff lasts forever.
IF possible- could you post a pic or two of that Montgomery Ward ammo? I collect old ammo boxes, and Id love to see it.
MAYBE even buy one box?
Just in time for pre election panic buys. So there will be a 12 hour window sometime in August / September.
I think the .380 issue (in addition to panic?) was due to a combination of traditionally lower volume of .380 ammo production and the introduction of the Ruger LCP if sales in the rest of the US were similar to what I was seeing here.
My best guess on .22 ammo shortage was it spring boarded off of Christmas sales creating a normal shortage, some panic, and low cost of rimfire which allowed scalpers to create an artificial "shortage" in much the same way the 2 brothers from Tennessee that made the news recently by driving around at least 2 different states buying every bottle of hand sanitizer that was in stock and then jacking the price up.
J&G has jacked up their prices on 223. Remember the Norma Tactical that was under $300/1,000rds a couple weeks ago? They got it now for a mere $349.90/500rds.
IF possible- could you post a pic or two of that Montgomery Ward ammo? I collect old ammo boxes, and Id love to see it.
MAYBE even buy one box?
I going to Santa Fe early tomorrow, but when I get back, I'll go into my ammo pantry and pull some of it out.
vicious_cb
03-20-20, 22:56
Maybe because you were one of those "its just the flu" bros and didnt stock up beforehand?
Straight Shooter
03-20-20, 23:09
I going to Santa Fe early tomorrow, but when I get back, I'll go into my ammo pantry and pull some of it out.
Thats awesome, brother- thank you so much.
Anyone panic buying ammo at this stage is just Stage 87 Retarded.
Nightvisionary
03-21-20, 02:52
Anyone panic buying ammo at this stage is just Stage 87 Retarded.
Yep, if someone had bought just a single box of 5.56 every payday over the last 5 years of they would be sitting on 2600 rounds. At this point my grand kids will be shooting my ammo long after I am gone.
TheAlsatian
03-21-20, 05:47
I going to Santa Fe early tomorrow, but when I get back, I'll go into my ammo pantry and pull some of it out.
I bought Western Auto branded ammo and I believe Coast to Coast hardware branded in NM in the early 70s. I might still have a box of that somewhere..
I managed to grab 1k 9mm and 1k Wolf Gold .223 just before things went nuts. Just range ammo. I make a large number of small ammo purchases throughout the year, interspersed with several larger ones when I have extra funds so I was planning on waiting for my tax refund to buy but ended up jumping on my purchase early because there were starting to be some worrying signs of an impending ammo panic. Good thing too because I got my refund this past Wednesday and if I had waited I’d have been screwed.
I really wish I had managed to grab another 200-300 rounds or so of XM193 to refill some mags but wasn’t able to before things went sideways. I still have a bunch but don’t like dropping below a certain level.
Voodoochild
03-21-20, 06:32
People that have never owned a gun before are the ones buying up all the ammo. I think they have finally came to the realization that in times of trouble your own your own in regards to self defense. I figure once the panic is over and life resumes back to normalcy those folks will probably dump their guns (like idiots) and might be able to pick up some decent deals.
Go to GunBroker and look at how much 9MM Ammo is going for.
J&G has jacked up their prices on 223. Remember the Norma Tactical that was under $300/1,000rds a couple weeks ago? They got it now for a mere $349.90/500rds.
Westernsport has Federal XM193 for $1/round. I have a hard time believing people are really paying that or things are a lot worse than I think.
People that have never owned a gun before are the ones buying up all the ammo. I think they have finally came to the realization that in times of trouble your own your own in regards to self defense. I figure once the panic is over and life resumes back to normalcy those folks will probably dump their guns (like idiots) and might be able to pick up some decent deals.
Go to GunBroker and look at how much 9MM Ammo is going for.I'm not seeing that. So far all the new owners have bought nothing but a few boxes. On the other hand, guys who have basements full of ammo are/were buying cases at a time.
My logic has always been I have what I have. I don't panic buy, I don't run out and wait in lines all day, I'm not maxing out credit cards or just spending more money. It is what it is.
J&G has jacked up their prices on 223. Remember the Norma Tactical that was under $300/1,000rds a couple weeks ago? They got it now for a mere $349.90/500rds.You should check out Cheap then Dirt! They have 55gr for $900/1000rds
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 07:31
I bought Western Auto branded ammo and I believe Coast to Coast hardware branded in NM in the early 70s. I might still have a box of that somewhere..
Oh man, I too bought tons of that...but have no boxes. Pics would be great.
I bought a case of my preferred .25 acp because it went on sale. A week later the current panic hit and that same ammo was up about 35%.
And that isnt because first time buyers (or nearly anyone) are hunting for .25 acp.
But yea, this panic, like that on food and TP, is stupid.
You should check out Cheap then Dirt! They have 55gr for $900/1000rds
Wow. I'm thinking about unloading some PMC Bronze I have stashed.
People at least are just buying the cheap range stuff. There was only a slight shortage of JHP round for pistol ammo when I was at the store the other day, and good quality 5.56 stuff like Mk318 was still available. Yeah, you pay a little more, but most people aren't going to the range in this crisis, so I'm not worried about cheap training stuff right now anyway.
Consider yourself lucky. Locally, even the higher end defensive ammo is gone. 5.56, 9mm, .40, .45, and even .380 have completely disappeared from the local Academy, or are relegated to a box or two tucked out of the way so they get passed over. Couple other stores are the same way, either completely sold out of 9mm and maybe 5.56, or down to just plinking ammo.
I was still in the process of stocking up on 9mm defensive loads (just added a 9mm to the stable last month) and this scare hit before I had enough stocked away for my liking. Whoops.
I'm stocked up on all my ammo except for .380. Got caught with my pants down. I think I've got 1 box of plinker and 1 box of JHP. I only have 1 gun(Sig 230) that shoots it.
I bought a case of my preferred .25 acp because it went on sale. A week later the current panic hit and that same ammo was up about 35%.
And that isnt because first time buyers (or nearly anyone) are hunting for .25 acp.
But yea, this panic, like that on food and TP, is stupid.
I highly doubt there are any first time buyers who are buying 25 acp.
I'm not seeing that. So far all the new owners have bought nothing but a few boxes. On the other hand, guys who have basements full of ammo are/were buying cases at a time.
My logic has always been I have what I have. I don't panic buy, I don't run out and wait in lines all day, I'm not maxing out credit cards or just spending more money. It is what it is.
This. Ammo NEVER even occurred to me when this "scare the morons" propaganda started gaining steam.
I'm all about having a nice stash of ammo, but wouldn't be trying to get that done now.
I am of the “small amount every month” mindset. No panic, no rush. I reload as well and have plenty of primers and powder. Sandy Hook was my wake up call.
Averageman
03-21-20, 09:19
I am of the “small amount every month” mindset. No panic, no rush. I reload as well and have plenty of primers and powder. Sandy Hook was my wake up call.
This, this 100 times!
If you didn't decide reloading was the answer to you problems last time, you're just wrong.
Grand58742
03-21-20, 09:46
I highly doubt there are any first time buyers who are buying 25 acp.
I wouldn't go that far necessarily, especially for those on a budget. When the cheap(er), larger caliber pistols like Hi Points and Centuries run out, people will start buying whatever they can. If that happens to be a Phoenix Arms or Taurus in .25 ACP, most first time gun buyers aren't going to know "maybe we should up caliber to something slightly more effective than a spitwad."
Now, I doubt very seriously many or most are going to start buying ammo by the case. But I think you underestimate how shady some sales people will be in telling first time buyers "oh, it's perfectly fine for defense!" when there's nothing else on the shelves.
I wouldn't go that far necessarily, especially for those on a budget. When the cheap(er), larger caliber pistols like Hi Points and Centuries run out, people will start buying whatever they can. If that happens to be a Phoenix Arms or Taurus in .25 ACP, most first time gun buyers aren't going to know "maybe we should up caliber to something slightly more effective than a spitwad."
Now, I doubt very seriously many or most are going to start buying ammo by the case. But I think you underestimate how shady some sales people will be in telling first time buyers "oh, it's perfectly fine for defense!" when there's nothing else on the shelves.
And there is always inheritance. Not everyone that isn't a shooter runs off to pawn Papaws Baby Browning.
This, this 100 times!
If you didn't decide reloading was the answer to you problems last time, you're just wrong.Never gonna happen. I'd rather pay stupid prices. In fact if it comes l down to either reloading or never having any ammo ever again then you'd see all my stuff for sale. It's one of those things I cannot sit still for. I despise monotonous work especially when it has to be carefully done.
Averageman
03-21-20, 10:18
Never gonna happen. I'd rather pay stupid prices. In fact if it comes l down to either reloading or never having any ammo ever again then you'd see all my stuff for sale. It's one of those things I cannot sit still for. I despise monotonous work especially when it has to be carefully done.
Years of Police Call cured me of that.
Never gonna happen. I'd rather pay stupid prices. In fact if it comes l down to either reloading or never having any ammo ever again then you'd see all my stuff for sale. It's one of those things I cannot sit still for. I despise monotonous work especially when it has to be carefully done.
True for me as well!
It's a whole-nuther hobby that requires alot of time, thought, and even once set up you can't half-ass it while doing anything else.
Still have to acquire and store components.
It really is not for everyone.
Probably best for those who have more time than money, those heavy into competition (50k rounds a year, etc), or precision rifle shooters.
hotrodder636
03-21-20, 10:40
Those are my hopes....get some ammo and guns on discount.
People that have never owned a gun before are the ones buying up all the ammo. I think they have finally came to the realization that in times of trouble your own your own in regards to self defense. I figure once the panic is over and life resumes back to normalcy those folks will probably dump their guns (like idiots) and might be able to pick up some decent deals.
Go to GunBroker and look at how much 9MM Ammo is going for.
Averageman
03-21-20, 10:45
True for me as well!
It's a whole-nuther hobby that requires alot of time, thought, and even once set up you can't half-ass it while doing anything else.
Still have to acquire and store components.
It really is not for everyone.
Probably best for those who have more time than money, those heavy into competition (50k rounds a year, etc), or precision rifle shooters.
Multi tasking for much of it helps.
Brass tumbling doesn't require a lot of attention, depriming, you can watch TV. It's all relative to what else you have to do.
Gunnar da Wolf
03-21-20, 10:47
This, this 100 times!
If you didn't decide reloading was the answer to you problems last time, you're just wrong.
I already reloaded back then. That silliness made me decide that bullet casting was a good idea, along with a side order of cap & ball revolver. However I did not get motivated enough to even think about making my own black powder like some of the guys on one forum...
Yep, if someone had bought just a single box of 5.56 every payday over the last 5 years of they would be sitting on 2600 rounds. At this point my grand kids will be shooting my ammo long after I am gone.
That would work for many of the members here, but some of us actually shoot in addition to posting. My grandkids already shoot enough of my ammo, I have a hard time keeping up, they turn 18, they're on their own. I have a hard enough time keeping up with my usage.
Just because , I went to SG Ammo`s site and they are not accepting any new orders and have taken down pricing . Said they are concentrating on getting orders out and getting inventory in .
Really lucky I beat the rush and received my last order 4 days ago . I`ll be doing a lot more dry fire and less range time .
Looks like everyone is in full panic mode now ...... and I have never seen my neighborhood so quite with no one outside at all .
Never gonna happen. I'd rather pay stupid prices. In fact if it comes l down to either reloading or never having any ammo ever again then you'd see all my stuff for sale. It's one of those things I cannot sit still for. I despise monotonous work especially when it has to be carefully done.
It's a lot more exciting if it's done carelessly.
Andy
Multi tasking for much of it helps.
Brass tumbling doesn't require a lot of attention, depriming, you can watch TV. It's all relative to what else you have to do.
I found that half an hour a day of prep daily and an hour or two as needed for larger batches means I never run out of ammo. The 20-30 minutes daily is good decompression after work, and I'm not going to pay $1/round for precision ammo.
That would work for many of the members here, but some of us actually shoot in addition to posting. My grandkids already shoot enough of my ammo, I have a hard time keeping up, they turn 18, they're on their own. I have a hard enough time keeping up with my usage.
Years ago, when I bought lots of guns but barely ever shot them because I was a doughy loser deserving of scorn, I had way more ammo around than I do now. I shoot often enough now that I have to ration my ammo use and I am constantly replacing depleted stocks.
It's a lot more exciting if it's done carelessly.
AndyThat would be me! I have no patience for anything but shooting. Not cleaning, not reloading, not loading mags, not even zeroing. I have a few rifles that I haven't shot cause they need to be zeroed. Can't be bothered, don't have the slightest interest. Only interested in shooting.
For instance, yesterday I decided to load a bunch of mags just in case. Had a whole plan, an idea of how to what to, where to put what....etc ..What happened was I found 4 loaded mags, loaded one more and that was that! Lost interest! Couldn't care less anymore!!
You should check out Cheap then Dirt! They have 55gr for $900/1000rdsThey increased the price on more then just ammo also. A week ago, I was considering buying a Griffin armament piston for my 9mm can from them because they had it at a lower price. So a week ago they wanted $69 and $8 shipping, now they want $95 and $15 shipping.
I don't see there being a huge increase in demand for a 13.5x1 suppressor piston so they are just ripping people off again.
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I have a philosophy for ammo to eliminate stress during short times. I have "good" (HD/SD) ammo, "SHTF" ammo, and "shooting" ammo.
200 rounds of 5.56/.223 and 100 rounds of 9mm loaded in mags plus the same in boxes along with some 12 gauge buckshot and slugs is my "good" ammo. It gets rotated/replaced regularly.
The "SHTF" ammo stock keeps my wife and I stress free during shortage times - 1500 rounds of 5.56, 500 rounds of 9mm, and a few thousand rounds of .22 LR.
I don't lose any sleep if I use up my "shooting" ammo before restocking or reloading.
Andy
That would be me! I have no patience for anything but shooting. Not cleaning, not reloading, not loading mags, not even zeroing. I have a few rifles that I haven't shot cause they need to be zeroed. Can't be bothered, don't have the slightest interest. Only interested in shooting.
For instance, yesterday I decided to load a bunch of mags just in case. Had a whole plan, an idea of how to what to, where to put what....etc ..What happened was I found 4 loaded mags, loaded one more and that was that! Lost interest! Couldn't care less anymore!!
We really could be friends! 😆
I want enough mags for every gun that I can go to the range, shoot all I want, and not have to stuff them! I have about 6 different Mag Lula's. Still isnt fast enough at the range. Especially when I'm sweating to dehydration in Florida.
I figure how much ammo I'll shoot per visit and I want that much ammo in mags.
For example, I found I fire 100-150 rds from my Beretta .25's a visit. So I have 20 8-shot magazines for them.
Now, sometimes mags are just too expensive for that. I'm probably not going to buy 20 HK mags at $40 a pop! That will keep me from buying such a gun, too.
One of the reasons why I never got an HK94 / Mp5 type weapon.
They increased the price on more then just ammo also. A week ago, I was considering buying a Griffin armament piston for my 9mm can from them because they had it at a lower price. So a week ago they wanted $69 and $8 shipping, now they want $95 and $15 shipping.
I don't see there being a huge increase in demand for a 13.5x1 suppressor piston so they are just ripping people off again.
Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using TapatalkThis is their MO. Every time something kicks off they raise prices 1000%
We really could be friends! [emoji38]
I want enough mags for every gun that I can go to the range, shoot all I want, and not have to stuff them! I have about 6 different Mag Lula's. Still isnt fast enough at the range. Especially when I'm sweating to dehydration in Florida.
I figure how much ammo I'll shoot per visit and I want that much ammo in mags.
For example, I found I fire 100-150 rds from my Beretta .25's a visit. So I have 20 8-shot magazines for them.
Now, sometimes mags are just too expensive for that. I'm probably not going to buy 20 HK mags at $40 a pop! That will keep me from buying such a gun, too.
One of the reasons why I never got an HK94 / Mp5 type weapon.
If I'm going to the range and especially if I'm taking a class I'll load more so that I don't have to do so in class. Instead I just swap out mags. Otherwise I can't be bothered.
I don't mind $40 mags. I'll either look for used, sales or just buy slowly
This is their MO. Every time something kicks off they raise prices 1000%
Also, having the counter say, "14 items left". Oh no! Better order now!
Then it goes "out of stock".
2 hours later, "20 in stock" at an increased price. Rinse and repeat.
Anyone that went through a previous shortage has no excuse........
I used to reload 1000,s of rounds a year, casted , gas checked, even paper patched........never again, the making and loading became more important than shooting.
Now I order 2000 rounds of 5.56 and 2000 9mm every year. That's not counting the stash I have put back.
I have enough 7.62, too much .22 and 12 gauge. No other calibers anymore. Logistics wise it's so much easier.
So no reloading or panicking for me.
BoringGuy45
03-21-20, 17:39
I guarantee that many of the same people responsible for this shortage are the same exact individuals responsible for the shortages after Sandy Hook and Obama's election. I say this because we had idiots who would come into our shop and brag that they had been going shop to shop and just buying every box of .22 or .380 they could find even though they already had thousands of rounds before the panic. They just thought it was awesome that they got to be "that guy" who was making things hard for everyone else. Once we finally got high demand items and started rationing them, they'd get super pissed when we wouldn't make an exception. We'd get told that this was "bad customer service" and they'd tell us about how, unlike us, such and such gun shop had no limits on how many boxes they could buy and it was half the price, and how rationing was some commie bullshit, and all that stuff.
Shortages and panics are in large part the fault of greedy assholes buying things they don't need just to let the rest of the world know that it can suck their dicks.
Anyone that went through a previous shortage has no excuse........
I used to reload 1000,s of rounds a year, casted , gas checked, even paper patched........never again, the making and loading became more important than shooting.
Now I order 2000 rounds of 5.56 and 2000 9mm every year. That's not counting the stash I have put back.
I have enough 7.62, too much .22 and 12 gauge. No other calibers anymore. Logistics wise it's so much easier.
So no reloading or panicking for me.
Agree 100%, have a plan, apparently many do not. We have had many years now of really low ammo prices.
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 18:12
HOLY SHIT am I SICK of people acting "shocked" and/or "amazed" & "cant believe people are doing this, or that".
How many times does it take to make someone not shocked or amazed, that when SHTF..either real or perceived..people go apeshit crazy?
Were you not alive during Sandy Hook? Were you not around for the AWB of '94? Were you here for the Y2K stuff? Or the swine flu or Ebola or what the fvck ever other times people went nuts? Youve not seen theze monkeys literally KILL over a TV on Black Friday?! That happens YEARLY.
Some people just want to come across as soooo"ABOVE IT ALL'. What-fvcking-ever. Pull your head out of your ass.
Warranted OR NOT- SHIT IS HITTING THE FAN. NOTHING is getting better- its getting worse. And God bless our President for trying calm our Nation & really doing a GREAT job, imho...but parts of America & certainly many other parts of the world are just screwed right now.
ME? IM FINE. Ive prepped for decades, mentally, physically..and MOST important- SPIRITUALLY. Im ready to go home NOW...TODAY. Im happier than a fat rat in a corn crib right now. And will be for the forseeable future.
Just STOP the "shocked" act already.
Added: We've had THREE YEARS of the best of the best. Best economy. NEVER better in my 55 years of life to buy guns,ammo, gear and shoot, shoot, shoot.
Some of us are "ants". Some of you are "grasshoppers". Gonna SUCK to be a "grasshopper" soon, if not already. Ive told friends and people I care about for years to make at least SOME preps for hard times..but the "itll never happen HERE" mentality took over and they did exactly SHIT. Oh well. Go play your fiddle now, grasshopper.
There are plenty of people who have started shooting since the last panic. Shooting has grown in leaps and bounds, and many people have simply just gotten old enough to buy. Scorning others in our own community helps no one. I understand wanting to address whiners that knew better, but now everyone has been shooting for an entire decade.
Anyone that went through a previous shortage has no excuse........
I used to reload 1000,s of rounds a year, casted , gas checked, even paper patched........never again, the making and loading became more important than shooting.
Now I order 2000 rounds of 5.56 and 2000 9mm every year. That's not counting the stash I have put back.
I have enough 7.62, too much .22 and 12 gauge. No other calibers anymore. Logistics wise it's so much easier.
So no reloading or panicking for me.
Yeah, pretty much. When times are good I buy by the case and not the box.
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 18:40
There are plenty of people who have started shooting since the last panic. Shooting has grown in leaps and bounds, and many people have simply just gotten old enough to buy. Scorning others in our own community helps no one. I understand wanting to address whiners that knew better, but now everyone has been shooting for an entire decade.
Brother- if you think THAT was the point of what I wrote, well, you missed the point.
There are plenty of people who have started shooting since the last panic. Shooting has grown in leaps and bounds, and many people have simply just gotten old enough to buy. Scorning others in our own community helps no one. I understand wanting to address whiners that knew better, but now everyone has been shooting for an entire decade.
I don't think anyone is picking on anyone who wasn't old enough to buy gun and ammo. We are commenting on those who "could" but "didn't" and more importantly we are also talking about the "why does anyone need a gun? / OMG I need a gun" crowd who realized just now they might be on their own. And it's not just "we've been saying it all along and they didn't listen", in many cases they debated us.
If I had a box of ammo for every person that said "I understand wanting a gun, but why do you need one that holds more than 10 rounds and why do you need more than 100 rounds of ammunition?", I'd have so much ammo I could give it away for free.
There are plenty of people who have started shooting since the last panic. Shooting has grown in leaps and bounds, and many people have simply just gotten old enough to buy. Scorning others in our own community helps no one. I understand wanting to address whiners that knew better, but now everyone has been shooting for an entire decade.
That’s how I was during sandy hook. It got kind of old since I’d literally just gotten into shooting and spent most of my disposable income on the gun itself.
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HOLY SHIT am I SICK of people acting "shocked" and/or "amazed" & "cant believe people are doing this, or that".
How many times does it take to make someone not shocked or amazed, that when SHTF..either real or perceived..people go apeshit crazy?
Were you not alive during Sandy Hook? Were you not around for the AWB of '94? Were you here for the Y2K stuff? Or the swine flu or Ebola or what the fvck ever other times people went nuts? Youve not seen theze monkeys literally KILL over a TV on Black Friday?! That happens YEARLY.
Some people just want to come across as soooo"ABOVE IT ALL'. What-fvcking-ever. Pull your head out of your ass.
Warranted OR NOT- SHIT IS HITTING THE FAN. NOTHING is getting better- its getting worse. And God bless our President for trying calm our Nation & really doing a GREAT job, imho...but parts of America & certainly many other parts of the world are just screwed right now.
ME? IM FINE. Ive prepped for decades, mentally, physically..and MOST important- SPIRITUALLY. Im ready to go home NOW...TODAY. Im happier than a fat rat in a corn crib right now. And will be for the forseeable future.
Just STOP the "shocked" act already.
Added: We've had THREE YEARS of the best of the best. Best economy. NEVER better in my 55 years of life to buy guns,ammo, gear and shoot, shoot, shoot.
Some of us are "ants". Some of you are "grasshoppers". Gonna SUCK to be a "grasshopper" soon, if not already. Ive told friends and people I care about for years to make at least SOME preps for hard times..but the "itll never happen HERE" mentality took over and they did exactly SHIT. Oh well. Go play your fiddle now, grasshopper.
I think the "shock" is coming from the fact that unlike Sandy Hook and the previous panics, this one wasn't caused by threats of an AWB or election. And yes, a lot of the people buying right now are people that previously never considered even touching a gun. A few friends from CA are surprised and don't understand why they can't just buy ammo for their new pistols - the availability is one problem, but the background checks, dealer transfers, and whole process of buying a box of ammo is another headache they have to deal with. They are now looking around and finding ammo to buy on the side - breaking CA law (pretty ironic).
I guarantee that many of the same people responsible for this shortage are the same exact individuals responsible for the shortages after Sandy Hook and Obama's election. I say this because we had idiots who would come into our shop and brag that they had been going shop to shop and just buying every box of .22 or .380 they could find even though they already had thousands of rounds before the panic. They just thought it was awesome that they got to be "that guy" who was making things hard for everyone else. Once we finally got high demand items and started rationing them, they'd get super pissed when we wouldn't make an exception. We'd get told that this was "bad customer service" and they'd tell us about how, unlike us, such and such gun shop had no limits on how many boxes they could buy and it was half the price, and how rationing was some commie bullshit, and all that stuff.
Shortages and panics are in large part the fault of greedy assholes buying things they don't need just to let the rest of the world know that it can suck their dicks.
Did you get an urge to punch them in the face? It would have been hard to suppress that urge.
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 19:14
I think the "shock" is coming from the fact that unlike Sandy Hook and the previous panics, this one wasn't caused by threats of an AWB or election. And yes, a lot of the people buying right now are people that previously never considered even touching a gun. A few friends from CA are surprised and don't understand why they can't just buy ammo for their new pistols - the availability is one problem, but the background checks, dealer transfers, and whole process of buying a box of ammo is another headache they have to deal with. They are now looking around and finding ammo to buy on the side - breaking CA law (pretty ironic).
Know what? GOOD. If they live thru this, maybe itll teach the & others like them a good, hard lesson.
IF possible- could you post a pic or two of that Montgomery Ward ammo? I collect old ammo boxes, and Id love to see it.
MAYBE even buy one box?
Straight Shooter, went in to my ammo "pantry" this evening and pulled out some sealed military ammo cases. My dad had tons of this wrapped up in cardboard boxes sealed up with Duct Tape. Only in recent years did I pull them out and put them in military ammo cans.
I have the Montgomery Wards somewhere in that bunch, but I grabbed three different brands which date from the mid-1970's - in fact probably 1974-1976. The big Sears box of .22 is Ted Williams Brand bricks. That contains 10 boxes of 50 rounds. The small box is Canadian made Mastercraft, made for a retailer called: "Coast to Coast Stores". Finally, a familiar brand of CCI ammo. It has on it a K-Mart Price tag of $1.97 for 100 rounds. A closer look at the price tag shows a date of 9-75 or September 1975:
https://i.imgur.com/LAGCVrDh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UMhb9LYh.jpg
TheAlsatian
03-21-20, 19:23
This is their MO. Every time something kicks off they raise prices 1000%
So, I always wonder why they are still in business. I've refused to buy from them since the first time they tried this crap..
Brother- if you think THAT was the point of what I wrote, well, you missed the point.
I wasn't addressing anyone in particular. It's just what came to mind after reading through the thread.
I have helped about about 10 individuals get set up since 2014, and it was by attracting "more flies with honey". Many of them, myself included, started humbly with low grade equipment. I'm just hoping everyone uses the rough times ahead to grow like minded people to where they wish they could have been when they experienced their first panic. As far as ammo prices, I have enough 22lr to practice with and coach for a while. I intend to invest that in a similar manner as the last decade of shooting I have done, and shoot my better stuff sparingly if it reaches below a certain point.
For instance, yesterday I decided to load a bunch of mags just in case. Had a whole plan, an idea of how to what to, where to put what....etc ..What happened was I found 4 loaded mags, loaded one more and that was that! Lost interest! Couldn't care less anymore!!
You know it is really funny what folks consider drudgery. IIRC you are an architect, correct? I'd find no joy in that, yet you do. I've always felt that I was not well-suited to repetitive work, so I also regarded reloading as a chore until I started to really produce ammo after I retired. Here's my recipe:
1) I sort brass after returning from the range. For example, if I shoot 9mm I use the .40 separator as it lets 9 and .380 fall through. I am a brass hound so I generally come back with more and different types of brass than I shoot. Five minutes, top.
2) 5 gallon bucket of brass, 5 gallon bucket of lizard media, Harbor Freight cement mixer @ 3hours - takes me 15 minutes to set in motion and I start and forget as I have it on a timer = well, I do have to unplug within 24 hours;
3) Separate media from brass in one of those huge Dillon Precision media separators. Takes about ten minutes. Place brass in five gallon bucket and move to floor by reloading bench.
4) I place several hands full of brass on a towel which is draped over a 14x20 baking pan, I run my hands over them until they are all laying flat, spray with Hornady One-Shot, pick up towel by end's forming a hammock, and roll them back and forth. I then drape the towel over them and let them sit. This is usually the last thing I do after each session so I can start loading the next session without this step. Less than 5 minutes.
5) Fill primer tubes, I use five, simply because I want to load 500 rounds each session. This takes me ten minutes or so, probably a little less. I reward myself with a sip of Diet Pepsi after each tube is filled, and walk over to put the tube on the primer tube rack mounted to the loader. Occasionally, if I'm running low on loaded ammo, I'll dump the first tube I load into the primer feed, and then reload it for a 600 round session.
6) I use an RL550 with a case feeder to load. It generally takes me about 70 minutes to run through 500 rounds. This includes several breaks to fill the casefeeder, lube another batch of cases, and a sip of Diet Pepsi after each primer feed refill. I listen to NPR classical while loading.
7) After loading I run each round through a Shockbottle 100 round case gage and place them in Dillon 100 round blue boxes. All told I'm completely done with sorting, loading, gaging and boxing 500 rounds in about two hours total.
I do this often enough to keep a minimum of 1,000 rounds loaded at all times, for both 9mm and .45. Generally 3 times a week during the warm months. The case feeder was a lifesaver as far as boredom goes.
Just my recipe.
Anyone that went through a previous shortage has no excuse........
.
Financial. Other obligations...etc ... There's plenty of reasons
I guarantee that many of the same people responsible for this shortage are the same exact individuals responsible for the shortages after Sandy Hook and Obama's election. I say this because we had idiots who would come into our shop and brag that they had been going shop to shop and just buying every box of .22 or .380 they could find even though they already had thousands of rounds before the panic. They just thought it was awesome that they got to be "that guy" who was making things hard for everyone else. Once we finally got high demand items and started rationing them, they'd get super pissed when we wouldn't make an exception. We'd get told that this was "bad customer service" and they'd tell us about how, unlike us, such and such gun shop had no limits on how many boxes they could buy and it was half the price, and how rationing was some commie bullshit, and all that stuff.
Shortages and panics are in large part the fault of greedy assholes buying things they don't need just to let the rest of the world know that it can suck their dicks.
What he said ^
I did see and hear of new buyers looking for a self defense firearm. But 99% of those in line waiting to buy already had at least a one safe full of guns and a basement full of ammo
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 19:33
I think the "shock" is coming from the fact that unlike Sandy Hook and the previous panics, this one wasn't caused by threats of an AWB or election. And yes, a lot of the people buying right now are people that previously never considered even touching a gun. A few friends from CA are surprised and don't understand why they can't just buy ammo for their new pistols - the availability is one problem, but the background checks, dealer transfers, and whole process of buying a box of ammo is another headache they have to deal with. They are now looking around and finding ammo to buy on the side - breaking CA law (pretty ironic).
Straight Shooter, went in to my ammo "pantry" this evening and pulled out some sealed military ammo cases. My dad had tons of this wrapped up in cardboard boxes sealed up with Duct Tape. Only in recent years did I pull them out and put them in military ammo cans.
I have the Montgomery Wards somewhere in that bunch, but I grabbed three different brands which date from the mid-1970's - in fact probably 1974-1976. The big Sears box of .22 is Ted Williams Brand bricks. That contains 10 boxes of 50 rounds. The small box is Canadian made Mastercraft, made for a retailer called: "Coast to Coast Stores". Finally, a familiar brand of CCI ammo. It has on it a K-Mart Price tag of $1.97 for 100 rounds. A closer look at the price tag shows a date of 9-75 or September 1975:
https://i.imgur.com/LAGCVrDh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UMhb9LYh.jpg
LOVE it! Thank you man, Im saving those pics. Ted Williams, I remember well!
The big Sears box of .22 is Ted Williams Brand bricks.
I had almost forgot how Sears branded all their sporting goods Ted Williams. Brings back some memories.
Straight Shooter, an example of how I have the stuff packed now. I also have a bunch of Remington Mohawk .22 LR from the Mid 1970's. Note the price on one box:
https://i.imgur.com/RoO2T0mh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t8BfzB2h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vIGnID4h.jpg
So, I always wonder why they are still in business. I've refused to buy from them since the first time they tried this crap..
Cheaper than Dirt went to crap years before Sandyhook.
I can't recall my last order with them, but it was prior to fall 2000. I had ordered stuff from them during the 90's with good luck and gave them a thumbs up when a coworker asked about them. I can't recall how many ways they screwed up his order and then failed to make good on it (seems like restocking fees and charging additional shipping to get replacements were involved) but was bad to the point it was an embarrassment to me.
You guys suck! Although I needed it like a hole in the head (I have ammo out the wazoo) I just ordered 500rds of the "FBI Load" XM556SBCT3 from Bone Frog. This, along with the other 300 rounds of it I already have, will go into my SHTF stash of M855A1 (300), Mk318 (1000), and Mk262 (1000).
I inventoried last year and have 8000+ rounds of 5.56, this previously mentioned stuff is in grab-and-go cans.
Straight Shooter, an example of how I have the stuff packed now. I also have a bunch of Remington Mohawk .22 LR from the Mid 1970's. Note the price on one box:
https://i.imgur.com/RoO2T0mh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t8BfzB2h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vIGnID4h.jpg
I saw a brick of the Mohawks at Knob Creek during the shortage for something like $50-60. Kinda figured they were pre-1980.
You guys suck! Although I needed it like a hole in the head (I have ammo out the wazoo) I just ordered 500rds of the "FBI Load" XM556SBCT3 from Bone Frog. This, along with the other 300 rounds of it I already have, will go into my SHTF stash of M855A1 (300), Mk318 (1000), and Mk262 (1000).
I inventoried last year and have 8000+ rounds of 5.56, this previously mentioned stuff is in grab-and-go cans.
I'm in the 45,000 round range, but that's a mix of calibers, including vintage black powder stuff like .45 Schofield, .38 SW, etc. Lots of sealed ammo cans of M855 plus spam cans of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. An intense fire in this place would be hell. We have this walk-in pantry where on the left are racks of ammo in military cans, on the right are racks of the wife's emergency foods.
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 20:07
I saw a brick of the Mohawks at Knob Creek during the shortage for something like $50-60. Kinda figured they were pre-1980.
Brother- you are giving me a MUCH needed trip down memory lane- I thank you so very much!!
If I had a dollar for every red box of Federal .22's I bought .75 cents or so..Id be rich!
I had almost forgot how Sears branded all their sporting goods Ted Williams. Brings back some memories.
J. C. Higgins too, have one of their scopes that is actually a Weaver K2.5 with fine cross hairs. Don't recall reading how each brand got determined though, time frame, grade, or random.
Regret passing on a J.C. Higgins Model 51 with commercial FN model 98 action(and not known to me at the time High Standard chrome lined barrel) because it was .270 Winchester during they hey day of super cheap 7.62x51 surplus.
Slight side show, does anyone have an idea of the age of these CCI and Hodgdon primers? And sorry for the 90/180 rotation. Don't recall them being that way when posted.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220063-Hodgdon-amp-CCI-primers
I'm in the 45,000 round range, but that's a mix of calibers, including vintage black powder stuff like .45 Schofield, .38 SW, etc. Lots of sealed ammo cans of M855 plus spam cans of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. An intense fire in this place would be hell. We have this walk-in pantry where on the left are racks of ammo in military cans, on the right are racks of the wife's emergency foods.
You da man! Impressive. :neo:
I only counted 5.56 ammo, but if I added in 9mm, .40, 357Sig, .357 Mag, .38Spl, .380, .45, 30-06, .308 (7.62 NATO), 7.62x39, .30 Carbine, .22LR, .22 Mag, and 12 gauge I would be around 11,000+ or so.
***Mind you that for some of the ammo listed above I don't even have a firearm that shoots them anymore! LOL
I always tell my wife, God forbid there's ever a fire here but if the firemen go rushing into it to "save the day" just scream "NOOOO!!!"
I'm in the 45,000 round range, but that's a mix of calibers,
Impressive! I thought I was getting a bit excessive at 15,000+.
I will be honest, the drastic run on guns and ammo surprises me. I knew some people would buy a few guns, but I didn't think people would clean out the gun and ammo supply so quickly. I did stop by a local gun store today and they are cleaned out of 5.56 and running low on .223. They still had some ARs, I think (didn't look around too much), but they said the NCIS is badly overwhelmed and a lot of folks are getting delayed. I got a couple boxes of 9mm Gold Dots and a box of .45 ACP hollow points for my son because the price was good. They also have purchase limits on ammo but they were not too restrictive and I think they are just trying to head off the scalpers. It was pretty obvious folks were buying their first guns or not used to buying ammo. I helped one young man looking for .223 when it was literally in front of him.
I'm more than set, learned my lesson well after Sandy Hook, so I'm not inconvenienced. I just wonder what the hell folks are so afraid of. It's not just the flu, but the world isn't ending by a long shot.
Andy
Impressive! I thought I was getting a bit excessive at 15,000+.
You guys are whack! Fightin Joe said no one even needs 100 rounds.
I'm in the 45,000 round range, but that's a mix of calibers, including vintage black powder stuff like .45 Schofield, .38 SW, etc. Lots of sealed ammo cans of M855 plus spam cans of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. An intense fire in this place would be hell. We have this walk-in pantry where on the left are racks of ammo in military cans, on the right are racks of the wife's emergency foods.
Life goals. My stash is super weak in comparison to most of you guys, but I've got enough to not be freaking out at the moment. Super glad I didn't ignore the signs and got a little more about a week and a half ago. This is officially more ammo then I've ever had on hand. Now I'm just scared to shoot it in case it takes like six years to come back again.
Straight Shooter
03-21-20, 21:17
Slight side show, does anyone have an idea of the age of these CCI and Hodgdon primers? And sorry for the 90/180 rotation. Don't recall them being that way when posted.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220063-Hodgdon-amp-CCI-primers
IF Im not mistaken...those are mid.late 70's...early 80's. I remember them.
So, I always wonder why they are still in business. I've refused to buy from them since the first time they tried this crap..Because gun owners don't give a shit. Soon as they have a sale every redneck and neck beard will be on it like flies on shit
You know it is really funny what folks consider drudgery. IIRC you are an architect, correct? I'd find no joy in that, yet you do. I've always felt that I was not well-suited to repetitive work, so I also regarded reloading as a chore until I started to really produce ammo after I retired. Here's my recipe:
1) I sort brass after returning from the range. For example, if I shoot 9mm I use the .40 separator as it lets 9 and .380 fall through. I am a brass hound so I generally come back with more and different types of brass than I shoot. Five minutes, top.
2) 5 gallon bucket of brass, 5 gallon bucket of lizard media, Harbor Freight cement mixer @ 3hours - takes me 15 minutes to set in motion and I start and forget as I have it on a timer = well, I do have to unplug within 24 hours;
3) Separate media from brass in one of those huge Dillon Precision media separators. Takes about ten minutes. Place brass in five gallon bucket and move to floor by reloading bench.
4) I place several hands full of brass on a towel which is draped over a 14x20 baking pan, I run my hands over them until they are all laying flat, spray with Hornady One-Shot, pick up towel by end's forming a hammock, and roll them back and forth. I then drape the towel over them and let them sit. This is usually the last thing I do after each session so I can start loading the next session without this step. Less than 5 minutes.
5) Fill primer tubes, I use five, simply because I want to load 500 rounds each session. This takes me ten minutes or so, probably a little less. I reward myself with a sip of Diet Pepsi after each tube is filled, and walk over to put the tube on the primer tube rack mounted to the loader. Occasionally, if I'm running low on loaded ammo, I'll dump the first tube I load into the primer feed, and then reload it for a 600 round session.
6) I use an RL550 with a case feeder to load. It generally takes me about 70 minutes to run through 500 rounds. This includes several breaks to fill the casefeeder, lube another batch of cases, and a sip of Diet Pepsi after each primer feed refill. I listen to NPR classical while loading.
7) After loading I run each round through a Shockbottle 100 round case gage and place them in Dillon 100 round blue boxes. All told I'm completely done with sorting, loading, gaging and boxing 500 rounds in about two hours total.
I do this often enough to keep a minimum of 1,000 rounds loaded at all times, for both 9mm and .45. Generally 3 times a week during the warm months. The case feeder was a lifesaver as far as boredom goes.
Just my recipe.No, Alex is the architect. I can kinda doodle on an echaskech thought!
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-21-20, 21:53
What he said ^
I did see and hear of new buyers looking for a self defense firearm. But 99% of those in line waiting to buy already had at least a one safe full of guns and a basement full of ammo
The number of guns goes up far slower than the number of gun owners....
You guys are whack! Fightin Joe said no one even needs 100 rounds.
He’d probably be less concerned once I owned up to the nearly 10,000 rounds of .22LR.
I have plenty (for me) of quality 5.56/.223, but I did not stock up to where I wanted to be with 9mm, though there is enough if it were truly ever “needed.” Honestly, though, I don’t think there will be another long term shortage.
You know it is really funny what folks consider drudgery. IIRC you are an architect, correct? I'd find no joy in that, yet you do. I've always felt that I was not well-suited to repetitive work, so I also regarded reloading as a chore until I started to really produce ammo after I retired. Here's my recipe:
1) I sort brass after returning from the range. For example, if I shoot 9mm I use the .40 separator as it lets 9 and .380 fall through. I am a brass hound so I generally come back with more and different types of brass than I shoot. Five minutes, top.
2) 5 gallon bucket of brass, 5 gallon bucket of lizard media, Harbor Freight cement mixer @ 3hours - takes me 15 minutes to set in motion and I start and forget as I have it on a timer = well, I do have to unplug within 24 hours;
3) Separate media from brass in one of those huge Dillon Precision media separators. Takes about ten minutes. Place brass in five gallon bucket and move to floor by reloading bench.
4) I place several hands full of brass on a towel which is draped over a 14x20 baking pan, I run my hands over them until they are all laying flat, spray with Hornady One-Shot, pick up towel by end's forming a hammock, and roll them back and forth. I then drape the towel over them and let them sit. This is usually the last thing I do after each session so I can start loading the next session without this step. Less than 5 minutes.
5) Fill primer tubes, I use five, simply because I want to load 500 rounds each session. This takes me ten minutes or so, probably a little less. I reward myself with a sip of Diet Pepsi after each tube is filled, and walk over to put the tube on the primer tube rack mounted to the loader. Occasionally, if I'm running low on loaded ammo, I'll dump the first tube I load into the primer feed, and then reload it for a 600 round session.
6) I use an RL550 with a case feeder to load. It generally takes me about 70 minutes to run through 500 rounds. This includes several breaks to fill the casefeeder, lube another batch of cases, and a sip of Diet Pepsi after each primer feed refill. I listen to NPR classical while loading.
7) After loading I run each round through a Shockbottle 100 round case gage and place them in Dillon 100 round blue boxes. All told I'm completely done with sorting, loading, gaging and boxing 500 rounds in about two hours total.
I do this often enough to keep a minimum of 1,000 rounds loaded at all times, for both 9mm and .45. Generally 3 times a week during the warm months. The case feeder was a lifesaver as far as boredom goes.
Just my recipe.
Just reading your post was putting me to sleep. Ugh...
I reloaded in years past when I had lots of time, and very little money. When I bought my first .308 I spent 6 months working up the perfect load with all match grade components. I could never get better groups than I could with Federal Gold Medal Match right out of the box. 168 grain Sierra match kings at 100 yards, 175 grains for 300+ yards. I used to re-load custom .38 blanks for dog training too. Buckets of 9mm and .45.
Nothing against you man. I'm just done with reloading. Still have all the stuff collecting dust in my garage should it become a necessity, but right now it is not a necessity for me. Gad I did it. Glad I know how to do it, but not interested. I was buying cases all through the Obummer years, and when prices dropped and supply went up 3 years ago, I stepped up the buying accordingly.
Anyone that wants to re-load, my hat is off to you. Enjoy. I'll be at the range emptying those cartridges. You are welcome to my spent brass if you want it.
I'm in the 45,000 round range, but that's a mix of calibers, including vintage black powder stuff like .45 Schofield, .38 SW, etc. Lots of sealed ammo cans of M855 plus spam cans of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. An intense fire in this place would be hell. We have this walk-in pantry where on the left are racks of ammo in military cans, on the right are racks of the wife's emergency foods.
I've just been pushing cases anywhere they can fit for years. You guys are inspiring me to go do an inventory. That will be my project for tomorrow since I won't be going to work anytime soon, and I really really don't want to clean the pool.
You da man! Impressive. :neo:
I only counted 5.56 ammo, but if I added in 9mm, .40, 357Sig, .357 Mag, .38Spl, .380, .45, 30-06, .308 (7.62 NATO), 7.62x39, .30 Carbine, .22LR, .22 Mag, and 12 gauge I would be around 11,000+ or so.
***Mind you that for some of the ammo listed above I don't even have a firearm that shoots them anymore! LOL
I always tell my wife, God forbid there's ever a fire here but if the firemen go rushing into it to "save the day" just scream "NOOOO!!!"
I'm not that impressive. This has taken years to build up. My problem is I don't rotate the stuff and just stash it away. I end up shooting a little then replacing with more. Most of my ammo stash has been built up since early 2000, when I entered the civilian world. You buy when you have money, then you go for a while when you buy nothing.
The advantage of my local is this stuff is kept cool and dry, with little temperature extremes. It will last under these conditions. I don't think it would work as well if I was in a humid climate.
Financial. Other obligations...etc ... There's plenty of reasons
Honestly, I drove shit cars for years and ate lots of home lunches to buy some of my shit. I understand family and finances first, but plenty of people wearing premium watches and driving $60k+ vehicles getting caught with their pants down.
It's priorities. I learned living in Florida that there will be dozens of hurricanes every year and you probably WON'T get hit, but I also learned to have a plan in place because if you do get hit, you are gonna need everything you planned and learn all the things you didn't think to plan for. Everyone else was spending their spare cash on luxuries rather than a hurricane plan and then expected somebody to show up and save their bacon when a hurricane did hit.
I actually had one jackass who asked me not to sell a gun to his college age kid because he didn't think he was old enough to carry a gun, despite the fact that his kid got a carry permit, then the same jackass came to my house the day AFTER we took a Cat 3 hit wanting to "borrow a gun", I told him I didn't think he was old enough to have a gun.
The advantage of my local is this stuff is kept cool and dry, with little temperature extremes. It will last under these conditions. I don't think it would work as well if I was in a humid climate.
I'm in a dry climate too. Something that was never a concern when I was young and poor was ammo shelf life. It never sat on the shelf for very long back then. So what is the typical shelf life for ammo in a dry climate with temperatures going from 55 in winter to 80 in summer. I have some stuff from the mid 90's. I still have an unopened wooden case of that Russian 7.62x39 from the early 90s. I think I paid $150 for it back then. My dad gave me some 30.06 hunting ammo from the 60s. I still have it somewhere locked in a safe.
Impressive! I thought I was getting a bit excessive at 15,000+.
Before the Obama election double and then tripled ammo prices, I was maintaining 20k+ rounds of every major caliber 5.56, 7.62x51, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, 9mm, .45, more .22 than I could begin to count and around 5k round of 12 ga.
That didn't include loaded mags for which I had 20 AR, 20AK, 20 AUG and 20 SIG mags.
No, Alex is the architect. I can kinda doodle on an echaskech thought!
I stand corrected, LOL.
Many of the people panic-buying are using the bank’s money (CC) because they don’t have any.
As the meltdown in equity markets ripples across the country, the ensuing pink slips will mean that a great deal of what’s being hoarded today will turn up for sale, later, when the rent can’t be paid. Give it 18 months.
Things the YouTube stars all fail to mention.
and around 5k round of 12 ga
A while back I got myself into trap shooting and 12 gauge became another caliber I had to stock. Glad that I treated it like everything else I shoot. Bought up the entire 2020 anticipated season's worth of ammo during the winter when it was too cold to spend much time at the range anyway. The panic buying may have wiped out my usual sources, but I bought all I need months ago. When things die down, inventory will return, I'll be about halfway through my supply and begin to plan 2021.
12G, like 22lr, for me......3 bullets can last 40 years
12G, like 22lr, for me......3 bullets can last 40 years
Same here but it's not eating much
Just reading your post was putting me to sleep. Ugh...
I reloaded in years past when I had lots of time, and very little money. When I bought my first .308 I spent 6 months working up the perfect load with all match grade components. I could never get better groups than I could with Federal Gold Medal Match right out of the box. 168 grain Sierra match kings at 100 yards, 175 grains for 300+ yards. I used to re-load custom .38 blanks for dog training too. Buckets of 9mm and .45.
Nothing against you man. I'm just done with reloading. Still have all the stuff collecting dust in my garage should it become a necessity, but right now it is not a necessity for me. Gad I did it. Glad I know how to do it, but not interested. I was buying cases all through the Obummer years, and when prices dropped and supply went up 3 years ago, I stepped up the buying accordingly.
Anyone that wants to re-load, my hat is off to you. Enjoy. I'll be at the range emptying those cartridges. You are welcome to my spent brass if you want it.
I definitely understand this. Reloading is largely a price control for me.
Doing inventory is good. Well worth everyone's time.
I have been getting organized for the last week and i'm happy with where i'm at. Only thing I was short on was 308 hunting ammo which has been rectified. 22lr is gone after this last batch of deliveries coming this week. After that I bet it's at least 2 to 3 years before we see it again.
Grand58742
03-22-20, 09:15
So, I always wonder why they are still in business. I've refused to buy from them since the first time they tried this crap..
Because there's always someone more desperate than you are that'll pay whatever they ask.
Eff 'em in my opinion.
Grand58742
03-22-20, 09:29
Remember this?
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/cheaper_than_dirt_ar15_price_gouging_2013-02-12.290/full&d=1477533078
SeriousStudent
03-22-20, 13:13
There is a reason everyone in Texas calls them Cheaters and Turds.
I remember them charging a hundred bucks per PMags. I also remember hearing someone say they would not urinate on them if they were on fire.
Oh wait, I was the one that said that.
ramairthree
03-22-20, 15:35
Did gun stores just empty out where you are?
I have not been in one since last Saturday.
I picked up a rare variant of a classic old DA/SA metal gun that had been traded in.
It was total business as usual.
I am hearing reports these places are empty now.
It blows my mind people have lived through the 94-04 ban, Obama, sandy hook, etc. and are out panic buying and we have shut down and ruined an economy and countless businesses and jobs over a virus that absolute worst case would have killed 120- 650 thousand of the exact same 3 million people that were going to die of heart, respiratory, stroke, infections, etc. this year even without the virus.
Anyway,
Without opening safes or getting into stuff, I shall sit and stare at some walls while shaking my head over the madness,
https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/70388FB5-C8CE-4C4B-8F22-49E9C548BD3B_zpsqwo744sv.jpeg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/70388FB5-C8CE-4C4B-8F22-49E9C548BD3B_zpsqwo744sv.jpeg.html)
https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/IMG_0253_zpswz65ld0v.jpg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/IMG_0253_zpswz65ld0v.jpg.html)
https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/photo38_zps56cf7009.jpg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/photo38_zps56cf7009.jpg.html)
12G, like 22lr, for me......3 bullets can last 40 years
I have a bunch of suppressed 10/22s so I go through a little bit of that. I don't think I've shot any 12 gauge in the last 3 years, I just have it.
There are people known as democrats. They recognize the need, but their pride and holier-than-thou, true-believer attitude prevents them from the uncivilized act of owning a firearm. Suddenly, their high horse is tired and thirsty and they can’t mount it.
I’ve got all the guns I’ll ever need.
The stores around here are suddenly low on budget-friendly defensive carbines, bulk ammo, and such. Hunting rifles, high-end ARs and shotguns, and expensive metal-framed handguns are still there. You can still find self-defense ammo as well. The surprising thing is that magazines are in abdundance.
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My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
Anybody else thinking about when to sell off a few extras?
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
Here the lowers doubled in price and only goofy ones are still in stock.
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The surprising thing is that magazines are in abdundance.
All gone around here.
I just sold 20 Gen 2 PMAGs.
Lifelong buddy of mine contacted me last nite & asked if had or could find him a tactical scatter...I asked why, is Houston out & he said yes along with ammo. I told him Dad would be glad to sell him an AR but declined?? I didn't get it either.
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
Coal Dragger
03-22-20, 16:56
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
They’re Democrats, they want shotguns to fire off in the air Joe Biden style to scare off the other Democrats who will be looting.
1_click_off
03-22-20, 16:59
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
These are the same folks hoarding toilet paper...
Averageman
03-22-20, 17:19
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
That's very 1970s of them.
The_War_Wagon
03-22-20, 18:04
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
They’re Democrats, they want shotguns to fire off in the air Joe Biden style to scare off the other Democrats who will be looting.
http://youtu.be/ooPzr1vzmGY :rolleyes:
TheAlsatian
03-22-20, 18:09
some of my vintage 22LR ammo, all the boxes are full:
https://i.imgur.com/Af3dU88.jpg
So last March was California freedom week that cleared out national inventory of standard capacity mags (at least is was by pro2A freedom deprived Californians). ..wonder what will be March2021 shortage caused by?
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Anybody else thinking about when to sell off a few extras?
Not in my opinion, I've considered it but choose not to. Anytime that's we need to sale a few off probably means we can't replace them, so no. Ifit comes to that we need to keep them all.
[QUOTE=TheAlsatian;2825870]some of my vintage 22LR ammo, all the boxes are full:
Nice!! I was on rimfirecentral & they had a thread about quality ammo from the 70's & 80's & went through my stash...I'm gonna use this shut down to play with my 50yd obsession.
61380
ramairthree
03-22-20, 21:02
I am not looking to sell off extra.
I am a hoarding MFer.
Grew up poor.
Like weekends at my grandparents in the early 70s with an outhouse, hand pump water, tub in shed for baths, hot water from pans on wood stove, outhouse until I was five or six poor while my mom waited on tables on the weekends for extra money poor.
Father died in an accident before I was a teenager poor.
With grandparents that were logging camp, slate mine, granite mining, farming poor depression era.
Work, be honest, take no handouts that made America strong poor.
I may have lost millions in potential income while staying in the military during a war for a dozen years.
But I am in the five bucks a minute zone kind of affluence now.
Every damn time I tried to stop hoarding, it bit me in the ass.
That shoelace I had extra for 22 years. needed it within a month after I threw it out.
That pair of boots extra I had in the back of the truck for a decade? Blew out a shoe at work a week later and could have used them.
The scope covers i had for thirty years and threw out? Would have been a perfect match for the ones I lost 11 days later.
Those original metal baseplates for trashed beretta mags? Came in perfect for replacing the crappy new breaking plastic ones.
That old carry handle mount and 30$ service merchandise bushnell 3x9 scope I bought in 1990?
Handed it to a guy that inherited an SP1 and was between jobs.
Those old seikos I picked up for like 100 bucks each on seiko from ebay 20 years ago trying to find my first one I lost that were a good deal?
Selling for five or ten times as much now.
I am using the word hoarding wrong.
That Gerber MKII or BMF you replaced with a better knife but never got rid of? It's not like a pile of mouldy old newspapers or beanie babies that have been pissed on by a tomcat. They are a functional item that can still be used, gifted to someone that needs a knife, or sold to a collector.
Anyone looking for a 1980s Al Mar SERE Attack folder or HP15C?
Did gun stores just empty out where you are?
I have not been in one since last Saturday.
I picked up a rare variant of a classic old DA/SA metal gun that had been traded in.
It was total business as usual.
I am hearing reports these places are empty now.
It blows my mind people have lived through the 94-04 ban, Obama, sandy hook, etc. and are out panic buying and we have shut down and ruined an economy and countless businesses and jobs over a virus that absolute worst case would have killed 120- 650 thousand of the exact same 3 million people that were going to die of heart, respiratory, stroke, infections, etc. this year even without the virus.
Anyway,
Without opening safes or getting into stuff, I shall sit and stare at some walls while shaking my head over the madness,
There's a whole population of people that didn't live through that or were too young to remember it. For example, my one cousin was born in 00 and the other one in 04. Both are old enough to own guns..... barely. These people can't just all of a sudden own stack of guns and crates of ammo.
IF possible- could you post a pic or two of that Montgomery Ward ammo? I collect old ammo boxes, and Id love to see it.
MAYBE even buy one box?
I have some antique shit in storage. If I can find it, Ill send it to you. Hit me with a PM with your email, and Ill send a pick and confirm its of interest before I send it.
PB
I don't understand the shotgun issue. Not everyone is into guns or follows the latest mods and innovations. Some people just want something that defends their home.
ramairthree
03-22-20, 22:05
thirty years ago I had a Mossberg 500 loaded with buckshot under the bed for home defense.
I may now have a laser, WML 20 round mag 9mm and SBR 40 round mag SBR with suppressor both with top of the line ammo ready to go for HD. But old habits die hard. There is still a Mossberg 500 with buckshot and now with WML with them.
Straight Shooter
03-22-20, 22:35
some of my vintage 22LR ammo, all the boxes are full:
https://i.imgur.com/Af3dU88.jpg
[QUOTE=TheAlsatian;2825870]some of my vintage 22LR ammo, all the boxes are full:
Nice!! I was on rimfirecentral & they had a thread about quality ammo from the 70's & 80's & went through my stash...I'm gonna use this shut down to play with my 50yd obsession.
61380
Nice pics...havent seen the Mastercraft brand before.
Artos- those Gold Medal .22's were freakin unreal accurate out of my old Marlin 2000 match gun.
Nice pics...havent seen the Mastercraft brand before.
As you saw in my pics, I have Mastercraft as well. They were sold in Coast to Coast Stores, which was a budget chain connected with TruValue Hardware. The Mastercraft ammo was budget .22 LR made in Canada. I don't remember how well it shot back when I was a teenager, because I shot anything I could get my hands on, and it was readily available.
The surprising thing is that magazines are in abdundance.
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
Completely different crowd than 2008. These are not savvy gun folks. Or worried about AW bans.
They are worried about something far more immediate.
Pacific5th
03-22-20, 23:51
I don't understand the shotgun issue. Not everyone is into guns or follows the latest mods and innovations. Some people just want something that defends their home.
At least in Washington State Shotguns and bolt/lever/hunting rifles are the only things you can get same day now. Even with a CPL you have to wait to pick up cause the state pissed of the FBI and the same day check system. I-1639 killed same day semi-auto long gun sales. Now I’m seeing posts by gun stores talking about people coming in and complaining they have to wait.
[QUOTE=Artos;2825918]
Nice pics...havent seen the Mastercraft brand before.
Artos- those Gold Medal .22's were freakin unreal accurate out of my old Marlin 2000 match gun.
I'm an admitted 22 snob & shot some 50yd benchrest back in the 90's & early 2000 with tuners and the whole 9 yards...I have 2 bricks of that Fed but it's the REALLY good 900 series & not the top shelf GM Match that competed with Tenex & Benchrest Gold back in the day. Not sure why we dumped the tooling to compete with the brits in the rf game, but oh well?? I'm gonna use this down time to play with the little guns again & have a 40x repeater, a 40x KS sporter, an Anshutz FWT & Kimber Custom Match I've never wrung out. It may be a while but will be fun to see which bug holes the best. Finding good days may be a challenge this time of year in deep s. tx.
[QUOTE=Artos;2825918]
Nice pics...havent seen the Mastercraft brand before.
Artos- those Gold Medal .22's were freakin unreal accurate out of my old Marlin 2000 match gun.
I'm an admitted 22 snob & shot some 50yd benchrest back in the 90's & early 2000 with tuners and the whole 9 yards...I have 2 bricks of that Fed but it's the REALLY good 900 series & not the top shelf GM Match that competed with Tenex & Benchrest Gold back in the day. Not sure why we dumped the tooling to compete with the brits in the rf game, but oh well?? I'm gonna use this down time to play with the little guns again & have a 40x repeater, a 40x KS sporter, an Anshutz FWT & Kimber Custom Match I've never wrung out. It may be a while but will be fun to see which bug holes the best. Finding good days may be a challenge this time of year in deep s. tx.
Straight Shooter
03-23-20, 05:19
[QUOTE=Straight Shooter;2825962]
I'm an admitted 22 snob & shot some 50yd benchrest back in the 90's & early 2000 with tuners and the whole 9 yards...I have 2 bricks of that Fed but it's the REALLY good 900 series & not the top shelf GM Match that competed with Tenex & Benchrest Gold back in the day. Not sure why we dumped the tooling to compete with the brits in the rf game, but oh well?? I'm gonna use this down time to play with the little guns again & have a 40x repeater, a 40x KS sporter, an Anshutz FWT & Kimber Custom Match I've never wrung out. It may be a while but will be fun to see which bug holes the best. Finding good days may be a challenge this time of year in deep s. tx.
Dang man, post some pics of those rifles, and groups if youve a mind to.
At least in Washington State Shotguns and bolt/lever/hunting rifles are the only things you can get same day now. Even with a CPL you have to wait to pick up cause the state pissed of the FBI and the same day check system. I-1639 killed same day semi-auto long gun sales. Now I’m seeing posts by gun stores talking about people coming in and complaining they have to wait.Same here. One LGS even made a FB post on Thursday about still having plenty of home defense shotguns.
StovePipe_Jammer
03-23-20, 08:47
What's striking to me is the completely empty shelves of 12g field loads. I don't know if people are expecting the virus to mutate and turn pheasants into zombies but I'm guessing it's a bunch of newbies buying it up not knowing any better.
What's striking to me is the completely empty shelves of 12g field loads. I don't know if people are expecting the virus to mutate and turn pheasants into zombies but I'm guessing it's a bunch of newbies buying it up not knowing any better.
Because ammo is ammo when you want someone to stop doing what they're doing and go away
What's striking to me is the completely empty shelves of 12g field loads. I don't know if people are expecting the virus to mutate and turn pheasants into zombies but I'm guessing it's a bunch of newbies buying it up not knowing any better.
What Arik said, plus that's what the gunstore commandos are pushing and because the buyers simply don't know and 25 rounds of #6 for $6 beats 10 rounds of 00 for $10 (ok, I don't buy much shottie ammo, but my point is valid).
Anyone willing to recommend a pistol gripped 12 gauge to an inexperienced shooter (saw it this weekend) is the sort to tell them about anything.
Andy
If you’re looking for 12ga field loads, check your feed and seed store. “First Gun Yuppies” mostly don’t know those exist.
I stopped by one today (not for gun stuff), and he even had 200 of 9mm behind the counter. I asked if anyone had been buying it and he said, nope.
Grand58742
03-23-20, 12:26
If you’re looking for 12ga field loads, check your feed and seed store. “First Gun Yuppies” mostly don’t know those exist.
I stopped by one today (not for gun stuff), and he even had 200 of 9mm behind the counter. I asked if anyone had been buying it and he said, nope.
My local one has .223 as well. Mainly 45-60 grain varmint style loads, but sometimes you find some heavier stuff.
Evidently word caught in at the local feed/seed store. They have always been well stocked for ammo, but are limiting purchases to five boxes per person.
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What's striking to me is the completely empty shelves of 12g field loads. I don't know if people are expecting the virus to mutate and turn pheasants into zombies but I'm guessing it's a bunch of newbies buying it up not knowing any better.
Obviously they have not seen the Dave Chapel PSA on this.
tmwtrfwler
03-23-20, 17:38
My local store that I have good friends at said that everyone wanted shotguns. If they had 500 shotguns they could have sold them all.
WTF? Shotguns?
As of mid week still had handguns other than glocks and some ARs. They said noone is buying stripped lowers or AR parts. All new gun owners that are totally clueless.
Monk.... where in Va? That’s interesting to read. I’ve somewhat enjoyed watching a few libs I know break down and ask about guns. Glad they’ve finally seen the light and now they’ve had a tough time finding stuff
Monk.... where in Va? That’s interesting to read. I’ve somewhat enjoyed watching a few libs I know break down and ask about guns. Glad they’ve finally seen the light and now they’ve had a tough time finding stuff
Chantilly.
tmwtrfwler
03-23-20, 19:08
My old stomping grounds. Grew up between there and Herndon. Good area .... at least used to be. Lots of anti gun folks there but plenty of pro as well.
tacticaldesire
03-25-20, 07:47
You know it is really funny what folks consider drudgery. IIRC you are an architect, correct? I'd find no joy in that, yet you do. I've always felt that I was not well-suited to repetitive work, so I also regarded reloading as a chore until I started to really produce ammo after I retired. Here's my recipe:
1) I sort brass after returning from the range. For example, if I shoot 9mm I use the .40 separator as it lets 9 and .380 fall through. I am a brass hound so I generally come back with more and different types of brass than I shoot. Five minutes, top.
2) 5 gallon bucket of brass, 5 gallon bucket of lizard media, Harbor Freight cement mixer @ 3hours - takes me 15 minutes to set in motion and I start and forget as I have it on a timer = well, I do have to unplug within 24 hours;
3) Separate media from brass in one of those huge Dillon Precision media separators. Takes about ten minutes. Place brass in five gallon bucket and move to floor by reloading bench.
4) I place several hands full of brass on a towel which is draped over a 14x20 baking pan, I run my hands over them until they are all laying flat, spray with Hornady One-Shot, pick up towel by end's forming a hammock, and roll them back and forth. I then drape the towel over them and let them sit. This is usually the last thing I do after each session so I can start loading the next session without this step. Less than 5 minutes.
5) Fill primer tubes, I use five, simply because I want to load 500 rounds each session. This takes me ten minutes or so, probably a little less. I reward myself with a sip of Diet Pepsi after each tube is filled, and walk over to put the tube on the primer tube rack mounted to the loader. Occasionally, if I'm running low on loaded ammo, I'll dump the first tube I load into the primer feed, and then reload it for a 600 round session.
6) I use an RL550 with a case feeder to load. It generally takes me about 70 minutes to run through 500 rounds. This includes several breaks to fill the casefeeder, lube another batch of cases, and a sip of Diet Pepsi after each primer feed refill. I listen to NPR classical while loading.
7) After loading I run each round through a Shockbottle 100 round case gage and place them in Dillon 100 round blue boxes. All told I'm completely done with sorting, loading, gaging and boxing 500 rounds in about two hours total.
I do this often enough to keep a minimum of 1,000 rounds loaded at all times, for both 9mm and .45. Generally 3 times a week during the warm months. The case feeder was a lifesaver as far as boredom goes.
Just my recipe.
I would rather put a toothpick under my toenail and kick a wall.
teufelhund1918
03-25-20, 07:58
deleted...
One shot, the target gets hit with 9 00 pellets out of a 12 gauge. That'll take the fight out of someone quick. Good for confined spaces depending on which one you get. Smaller loads, you can go down to the local park and whack some of the millions of squirrels that have over populated the place if you have to. So basically, they are pretty versatile.
Wow man. Thanks for all that helpful info
teufelhund1918
03-25-20, 08:15
deleted...
tacticaldesire
03-25-20, 08:23
Come to think of it, bird shot will kill just as dead as 00 buck too. Just saw an episode of the First 48 the other day. Fella was killed with bird shot from a 20 gauge. They showed the x-ray. it was all through his chest and into his heart.
You can get a variety of different loads, bird shot, turkey loads, buck shot, slugs, etc.... fun s$!t like dragon's breath and some other crazy things from somewhere my buddy's son gets it.... so if you go to the store, you're really on limited by the what gauge the gun is. Not like having to find 5.56 or .22 , etc.
This is some Grade A boomer level trolling.
Thanks for the laugh in these uncertain times.
This is some Grade A boomer level trolling.
Thanks for the laugh in these uncertain times.
I work in a trauma unit intensive care unit. I’ve seen lots of people shot by bird shot that were relatively fine. You know what I’ve never seen? Somebody shot by 00....they don’t live long enough to make it to the unit.
I just wish the .22lr/birdshot being adequate would myths would just die. Anecdotally there are cases but the vast majority of the time, they fail to stop the threat.
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BoringGuy45
03-25-20, 08:41
I work in a trauma unit intensive care unit. I’ve seen lots of people shot by bird shot that were relatively fine. You know what I’ve never seen? Somebody shot by 00....they don’t live long enough to make it to the unit.
I just wish the .22lr/birdshot being adequate would myths would just die. Anecdotally there are cases but the vast majority of the time, they fail to stop the threat.
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People like to be hard line about the whole "shot placement is everything" doctrine to the point where they say it's the ONLY thing that matters. "A hit with a .22 LR is better than a miss with a .44 Mag" may be true, but that doesn't mean that a .22 LR is still adequate just because it's potentially lethal. If that were the case, the conventional wisdom among everyone would be to carry a 22. The saying should go, "shot placement is most important, but an adequate defense caliber is also important."
People like to be hard line about the whole "shot placement is everything" doctrine to the point where they say it's the ONLY thing that matters. "A hit with a .22 LR is better than a miss with a .44 Mag" may be true, but that doesn't mean that a .22 LR is still adequate just because it's potentially lethal. If that were the case, the conventional wisdom among everyone would be to carry a 22. The saying should go, "shot placement is most important, but an adequate defense caliber is also important."
Heh, I saw a guy shot in the heart with a .22lr once. He had a bad time but it didn’t immediately make him stop what he was doing.
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Come to think of it, bird shot will kill just as dead as 00 buck too.
Please stop. Bullshit like that is frowned upon here.
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Grand58742
03-25-20, 09:00
Please stop. Bullshit like that is frowned upon here.
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I think he was being sarcastic.
teufelhund1918
03-25-20, 09:11
Sorry, I'm not trolling anyone or a boomer and I have no intent to cause any controversy.
Grand58742
03-25-20, 09:25
Or maybe not...
I think most experts would tell you any shotgun round outside of slugs best have "buck" in the name or isn't to be used. Will birdshot kill? It's possible under ideal circumstances like if you're five feet away and have a low shot number. But I'd tend to think possible only exists in sappy love movies. As others have stated, the same goes for anything less than a .35 caliber handgun. Will a .25 ACP kill? Maybe given perfect circumstances. Not anyone's first choice though.
Active Self Protection will often share stories of birdshot failing. It looks like it’d suck, but is rarely fatal.
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As of today (25 March), any sign that this is starting to taper off or is it still in full swing?
teufelhund1918
03-25-20, 10:08
Not that I'm some sort of expert or anything, but I guess my past experiences are different than most people's. As far as the bird shot kill on the First 48 show, the shot was probably within 10 feet judging by the spread of the pattern and I believe they found the cup inside the chest cavity from what I remember. Another thing that I know of that happened around here a few years ago was some men were gambling at a local home. One was found to be cheating. Another pulled out a .25 revolver. The cheater ask what he was going to do with that little thing. He found out. One shot to the chest and he was dead. On the other end of the spectrum, I can think of two "people" that are here now where I work that took 12+ shots from LE while being taken into custody who are still walking around like it was nothing. No body armor and they have the scars to prove it. I know there are others that I've talked to over the years that have been shot numerous times and still are walking around. Stabbings??? I've seen everything from being killed by one stab to one that happened just 2 weeks ago where he was stabbed 50+ times and not going to survive. He was back at the institution from the hospital in 4 days. Been told that I would probably never encounter a sucking chest wound in my life. I can probably guesstimate that there have been at least 3-4 so far this year.
If I sat down and thought about it, I could go on for hours about these kind of things I've seen. So lesson learned over my experience, nothing is black and white and written in stone. When you say "X" can never happen. Get ready because it will....
Don't mean to sound like I'm on a rant and I'm not trolling, etc... just saying.
So just to clarify for the thousands of people that will come across this thread and read some of terrible advice being spewed.
If you are going to use a shotgun in a self defense situation DO NOT USE BIRD SHOT. Its not going to kill anyone no matter what you think. This picture (see picture attached) is someone shot in the chest with bird shot at close range. Its going to hurt like hell but if you think someone jacked up on drugs or pissed off breaking into your home is not going to laugh this off with adrenaline, you fooling yourself.
If you’re going to use a shotgun use buckshot. Don’t use slugs. Slugs will go though several walls and have been know to leave peoples houses and end up inside their neighbors house. You are responsible for every bullet and where it lands.
https://i.imgur.com/IAjodgml.jpg
Only slowing down is some states, due to gun shops closing.
It will go away soon, and everything with be back to normal in a month or 2.
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I'm not so sure we will ever be going back to normal. I think this is/was a big step in a well thought out plan that we are in the middle of. Hold on. Our ride just took a big turn.
Couldn’t tell you. I know a lot of these people are first time buyers it appears.
But if anyone has been in the know for a while and still hadn’t acquired what they needed before this, well ..... something about a paddle and a brown creek comes to mind.
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So just to clarify for the thousands of people that will come across this thread and read some of terrible advice being spewed.
If you are going to use a shotgun in a self defense situation DO NOT USE BIRD SHOT. Its not going to kill anyone no matter what you think. This picture (see picture attached) is someone shot in the chest with bird shot at close range. Its going to hurt like hell but if you think someone jacked up on drugs or pissed off breaking into your home is not going to laugh this off with adrenaline, you fooling yourself.
If you’re going to use a shotgun use buckshot. Don’t use slugs. Slugs will go though several walls and have been know to leave peoples houses and end up inside their neighbors house. You are responsible for every bullet and where it lands.
https://i.imgur.com/IAjodgml.jpg
What will kill him is digging that shit out, ouch . That would suck, but yes, 00 is the medicine for shotguns. Preferably the Federal 12g with Flitecontrol. I have a couple cases of this stuff and it keeps the groups pretty tight. That pic above would hold a group about the size of a plate with Flitecontrol. Great stuff IMHO.
PB
Grand58742
03-25-20, 11:19
I'm not sure about "panic" buying, but it seems to have brought out the a-holes in the world that should have bought a long time ago but get miffed when you decline them.
I'm selling a pistol at the moment (just taking up extra space) and have had a few offers. I tend to rack and stack the offers in the order they come in instead of just taking the highest offer first. Obviously, low ball offers will get moved to the bottom of the pile. Anyway, one dude sends me a message about how he "really wants" the pistol and will offer $100 above and beyond what others have offered. I have two other requests in before his that met my price, so I inform him they have the option of waiting to see if they may drop out or moving on. I'm principled like that.
Said potential buyer goes on a rant about how I'm "misrepresenting" my business, he's going to call the police since I am obviously a "crooked" dealer, he offered a price to an item I was selling, hence, I have to take his offer, so on and so forth. So, I send him the number for my local PD and Sheriff and tell him to have a nice day.
He replies about how crooked I am once again and threatens to report me to the BBB. Again, I send them their contact information and tell him the deal's off with him in particular.
So, panic might not be widespread, but rude behavior sure is.
ETA: I'm not a dealer, just a P2P sale on Armslist for clarification.
Are we talking gun stuff or Toilet paper?
I stopped at a Walmart on the way into work Monday, and the store was less crowded. There was a little TP on the shelves and some paper towels. It seemed like it was getting better, but it was a sample of one day.
Dirk Williams
03-25-20, 11:52
while I certainly agree, I have investigated birdshot kills. All accidental, most were hunting dogs, entering exiting duck boats, or blinds. The hunters had sat their SG's down saftey off. Tragic. But they were effective. All upper body, neck or head shots. All very tight groups which indicated close proximity.
Not supporting birdshot for defense work. Just pointing out the obvious.
Dirk
There's an ongoing thread on P-F about the merits of #1 over 00 that's very interesting.
BoringGuy45
03-25-20, 12:27
In an M. Night Shyamalan twist, my anti-gun, deep blue state designated gun shops to be essential businesses, and they're staying open for now. Go figure.
sundance435
03-25-20, 12:37
In an M. Night Shyamalan twist, my anti-gun, deep blue state designated gun shops to be essential businesses, and they're staying open for now. Go figure.
Ha! I'm with you - it is pretty surreal, isn't it? My closest gun shop is actually in another state that is more gun friendly. It was already going out of business, so it's hard to gauge how much of it was panic buying. I was in there a few weeks ago and there were hundreds, if not thousands, of guns left. Went in the other day because he still had 5.56 and everything gun-wise was picked over. The owner looked pretty shell shocked by it all. Prices for 9mm were basically a $1 or $2 above normal retail, but 5.56 was up to $0.50/round for M193 (still not crazy, IMO, with everything going on). Only picked up a bit to top off some new mags without dipping into the horde. The in-state dealer I usually buy firearms from said a week ago that it was crazy and ammo was limited. I ordered some defense ammo from Target Sports and their site said it's a minimum 15 day wait for shipping.
Overall, I think it's just a steadier higher volume than normal right now vs. panic buying last week and weekend. I also think we're in the eye of the hurricane with this and we haven't yet seen the worst.
I still have people, first time buyers mostly, coming to me asking if I know where they can still get a gun or ammo.
Straight Shooter
03-25-20, 13:14
FULL SWING here in my city.
Ya had THREE YEARS of the best gun/ammo/gear buyin time ever. If you didnt get it then...no pity.
sundance435
03-25-20, 13:27
I'm not seeing that. So far all the new owners have bought nothing but a few boxes. On the other hand, guys who have basements full of ammo are/were buying cases at a time.
My logic has always been I have what I have. I don't panic buy, I don't run out and wait in lines all day, I'm not maxing out credit cards or just spending more money. It is what it is.
That jibes with what I've seen. The new gun owners really don't know any different than to buy a few boxes - that goes with their mindset of buying it in the first place, to have it just in case. The panic buying of ammo is coming from existing gun owners. I've only bought a few hundred rounds to top off new mags without dipping into what I've accumulated. I'm resigned to "what I have is what I have". No sense in paying double or triple to add any meaningful amount at this point. If I could find 1000 rounds of decent 5.56 for $300, I'd buy it, but I'm definitely not going to pay $400-600, or even $350, to add to what I have. I did order some more HSTs and bonded 5.56 at normal prices - A) it's all that was in stock, and B) I actually needed more of it after slowly shooting it up.
Los Angeles just allowed the Gun Shops to reopen. Seems the County Counsel told the Sheriff he couldn't close them. A very small win for 2A.
https://www.foxla.com/news/la-county-sheriff-halts-efforts-to-close-gun-stores-after-county-counsel-intervention.amp
titsonritz
03-25-20, 13:32
while I certainly agree, I have investigated birdshot kills. All accidental, most were hunting dogs, entering exiting duck boats, or blinds. The hunters had sat their SG's down saftey off. Tragic. But they were effective. All upper body, neck or head shots. All very tight groups which indicated close proximity.
Not supporting birdshot for defense work. Just pointing out the obvious.
Dirk
Still doesn't make .22 Long a viable SD round...
https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bella-twin-the-22-used-to-take-the-1953-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz6Hj8Xy42Z
I have such a large stock now that for a brief few seconds I actually thought about selling some of mine. But then I had a sip of coffee and that killed the idea. lol
I have such a large stock now that for a brief few seconds I actually thought about selling some of mine. But then I had a sip of coffee and that killed the idea. lol
Right there with you. No sense getting rid of it. I could easily take 3-4 high round count classes and then be kicking myself because I need to buy more ammo.
I'm not talking about turning my go to into cash. Nor my backups.
But if I can cash out my last Glock Gen3 for enough to buy a Gen5 after the panic, why not? An extra case of M193 into a case of gold dot later? This could be a great time to update some gear, if you can get past the panic and use your head.
How many gunfights that need all your extra guns and cases of M193 do you expect to survive?
titsonritz
03-25-20, 15:39
How many gunfights that need all your extra guns and cases of M193 do you expect to survive?
I'll be tickled pink if I expend all my ammo and am still alive.
sundance435
03-25-20, 15:47
I'll be tickled pink if I expend all my ammo and am still alive.
I'd settle for expending it all before I'm dead. It'd be a hell of a few of hours.
Problem is not being prepared & all the good stuff goes first...my bud in H-town is stuck with a citori & a half flat of field load #8 for home protection. I found him a FN Mk1 from a CBP buddy & waiting for him to call back. In the meantime I just recommended calling any hunting buddies & try to at least get some high brass / turkey loads with larger lead if they don't have 00 or slugs. Hopefully he has found something more sufficient & a hard lesson I'm sure.
I have such a large stock now that for a brief few seconds I actually thought about selling some of mine. But then I had a sip of coffee and that killed the idea. lol
I'd never sell to a rando, especially right now as the guys buying up all the ammo and guns are probably the same people who bought up all the TP. But I did hook up a good friend of mine today with a few hundred rounds, didn't think twice about it either.
FULL SWING here in my city.
Ya had THREE YEARS of the best gun/ammo/gear buyin time ever. If you didnt get it then...no pity.
How about for the kid that just turned 18 last week? Or in the states where you must be 21, just turned 21? How about for the guy that just got back from deployment? So on and so forth.
It sucks for them. Not everybody can have things as perfectly put together as others.
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PatrioticDisorder
03-25-20, 18:38
I'm not so sure we will ever be going back to normal. I think this is/was a big step in a well thought out plan that we are in the middle of. Hold on. Our ride just took a big turn.
1. Many more “first time gun buyers” will mean much stronger support for RKBA, many have now has their RKBA “eureka” moment.
2. Many more have also had their “eureka” moment on why this nation needs to control it’s borders.
3. Many more have also had their “eureka” moment on why it’s important to have our manufacturing base here in the USA (not only for jobs but national security)
1. Many more “first time gun buyers” will mean much stronger support for RKBA, many have now has their RKBA “eureka” moment.
2. Many more have also had their “eureka” moment on why this nation needs to control it’s borders.
3. Many more have also had their “eureka” moment on why it’s important to have our manufacturing base here in the USA (not only for jobs but national security)
Absolutely. People like us need to reinforce their new found knowledge with patient, polite, persistence at every opportunity.
In an M. Night Shyamalan twist, my anti-gun, deep blue state designated gun shops to be essential businesses, and they're staying open for now. Go figure.
In VA... education for children is closed for the year. The State run ABC stores are open and essential. Indoor gun ranges are closed but the sales facilities inside the same building is open.
If it were not so serious if would be comical. Mealy mouth Northam gets on TV and says.... There are going to more domestic violences situations, more abuse, more alcoholism, so today I am closing all schools for the year and the ABC stores will be open seven days a week. sounds like a plan Ralphie. Maybe this is part of his new live birth abortion deal. The under six abortion by alcoholic.
As to guns Cabellas here is apparently bringing items to the door for you if you bought it online but guns they can let 10 people in at a time. So basically it's closed for all but guns.
I got a message from a friend the other day that the outdoor range phone was busy all day. I expect that means it's closed.
I don't know what to think about the future. I think a lot of people are realizing "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" may not work out just like they had imagined.
1. Many more “first time gun buyers” will mean much stronger support for RKBA, many have now has their RKBA “eureka” moment.
2. Many more have also had their “eureka” moment on why this nation needs to control it’s borders.
3. Many more have also had their “eureka” moment on why it’s important to have our manufacturing base here in the USA (not only for jobs but national security)
Let's hope so. How many will fall into the "how soon they forget" camp though. All those people also want things to be "like they were".
Not to mention even if they do back RKBA they will also very likely be the type to say AWB ok, don't need 10 boxes of ammo, etc, etc,... basically all the Lib talking points. Which I guess means we are no worse off than we were and maybe we will pick up a few.
Or maybe not...
I think most experts would tell you any shotgun round outside of slugs best have "buck" in the name or isn't to be used. Will birdshot kill? It's possible under ideal circumstances like if you're five feet away and have a low shot number. But I'd tend to think possible only exists in sappy love movies. As others have stated, the same goes for anything less than a .35 caliber handgun. Will a .25 ACP kill? Maybe given perfect circumstances. Not anyone's first choice though.
I know this is some neck beard talk, but I have on more than one occasion, rolled a coyote dead while pheasant hunting with a 1oz load of #6(20g) at about 15yds.
It is going to have to be someone hopped up, that is taking a load of lead hunting loads and still coming for more. At 5-10ft? Dunno, but if it is rolling late winter fur yotes at 15-20 yds. I think it will deter even the most hardend intruder. If not outright put them out of the game.
With that said, I roll #4 buck in my scatter guns.
I wish I had a video of this shooting, 6'x6' entry way, two dudes fighting, 9 rounds out from a 12 ga, all bird, 2 hits. Calf and shoulder, rendered both useless. If they hit the neck or maybe inner thigh, potentially face, lights out. Otherwise, guy recovered, no loss of limb with plenty of future lead pimples.
Straight Shooter
03-25-20, 21:23
How about for the kid that just turned 18 last week? Or in the states where you must be 21, just turned 21? How about for the guy that just got back from deployment? So on and so forth.
It sucks for them. Not everybody can have things as perfectly put together as others.
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I cant really imagine, predict or cover every scenario brother- but if youve been of age, able, here at home and otherwise fully able to buy and stock up, and didnt..THATS the schmucks Im talking about.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-25-20, 21:53
I'm not so sure we will ever be going back to normal. I think this is/was a big step in a well thought out plan that we are in the middle of. Hold on. Our ride just took a big turn.
I thought after the great financial crisis in 2008 that we were going to see a Sea change in how people operated their finances and how our economies were running. And nothing happened at all.
I thought I saw a YouTube video about cutting a shotgun shell case above the brass and it then acting like a slug?
Not that A slug is the optimal shotgun load come on but if all you have is number nine shotshells it’s better to have some thing that can reach out further than you can throw a knife. Did I really see that?
I thought after the great financial crisis in 2008 that we were going to see a Sea change in how people operated their finances and how our economies were running. And nothing happened at all.
I thought I saw a YouTube video about cutting a shotgun shell case above the brass and it then acting like a slug?
Not that A slug is the optimal shotgun load come on but if all you have is number nine shotshells it’s better to have some thing that can reach out further than you can throw a knife. Did I really see that?
We’ve always called it “ringing a shell”, good for blowing out squirrel nests, killed a few deer with them. Cut it about middle of the wad, shove the shot section in the chamber then the lower half in behind it.
How about for the kid that just turned 18 last week? Or in the states where you must be 21, just turned 21? How about for the guy that just got back from deployment? So on and so forth.
It sucks for them. Not everybody can have things as perfectly put together as others.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOr simply people who have just recently gotten into this. Not everyone was born owning, shooting and understanding firearms. I never understood the ....if you hadn't by now then FU
In VA... education for children is closed for the year. The State run ABC stores are open and essential. Indoor gun ranges are closed but the sales facilities inside the same building is open.
If it were not so serious if would be comical. Mealy mouth Northam gets on TV and says.... There are going to more domestic violences situations, more abuse, more alcoholism, so today I am closing all schools for the year and the ABC stores will be open seven days a week. sounds like a plan Ralphie. Maybe this is part of his new live birth abortion deal. The under six abortion by alcoholic.
As to guns Cabellas here is apparently bringing items to the door for you if you bought it online but guns they can let 10 people in at a time. So basically it's closed for all but guns.
I got a message from a friend the other day that the outdoor range phone was busy all day. I expect that means it's closed.
I don't know what to think about the future. I think a lot of people are realizing "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" may not work out just like they had imagined.Gov Wolf said Pa gun stores are essential but need to limit the amount of people and work by appointment. So one store is staying closed for now, another is allowing 2 people at a time for 1/2 hour each and sent up an email for ammo purchases. For ammo you pull up, call, give your order number. Someone comes out and puts it in your car. For gun purchases you pull up for your appointment and call. Soon as there's only one person in the store they'll call you to come in. No one comes in without an appointment
Straight Shooter
03-26-20, 05:29
Or simply people who have just recently gotten into this. Not everyone was born owning, shooting and understanding firearms. I never understood the ....if you hadn't by now then FU
NEVER said FU. Do not mis-quote me. I said "no pity", & I dont. Again, if youve been able for the last THREE YEARS to own weapons, not only just THIS YEAR, & especially the last 60 days, started caring about guns, or just now feel the "need" to own guns...then youve pissed away the best time ever to be a gun owner/shooter. Same for food. If you just recently decided you might need more than a 2 liter of MTN DEW & some chips in the house...no pity.
teufelhund1918
03-26-20, 05:30
So just to clarify for the thousands of people that will come across this thread and read some of terrible advice being spewed.
If you are going to use a shotgun in a self defense situation DO NOT USE BIRD SHOT. Its not going to kill anyone no matter what you think. This picture (see picture attached) is someone shot in the chest with bird shot at close range. Its going to hurt like hell but if you think someone jacked up on drugs or pissed off breaking into your home is not going to laugh this off with adrenaline, you fooling yourself.
If you’re going to use a shotgun use buckshot. Don’t use slugs. Slugs will go though several walls and have been know to leave peoples houses and end up inside their neighbors house. You are responsible for every bullet and where it lands.
https://i.imgur.com/IAjodgml.jpg
Feel like I need to respond to this post. First and foremost, there was no advice offered...at least by me... as to what a person should use for self defense. I am not an "expert" on the subject, but if asked I would say for someone to take the time to do the research and pick the type of weapon and ammo they think is best suited to them for their situation. I'm new here to this forum and if this has been a touchy subject for folks in the past, I wouldn't know. Sorry, I'm not trying to be controversial. My point about my posts were that people were probably picking up shotguns because of their versatility. The end.
Second, there is an uninformed statement that bird shot will not kill a person when contrary to that, many people are killed by bird shot and small caliber weapons every year whether by accident or on purpose. No matter what you think, every round in a loaded weapon is potentially lethal in the right situation. I don't care if it is a BB or pellet gun. To suggest that it takes a miracle shot to kill someone with bird shot, .22 or some other round smaller than .35 cal. is somewhat irresponsible. Proven fact that the majority of self defense situations where lethal force was used occurred inside 7 yards. Which is why the majority of rounds shot by LE during qualifications are at the 7 yard line or less. I was reminded of a situation by my buddy who worked the shooting. Near Hansonville, Va a few years back, a man was shot 6 times with a .44 mag by another person at close range. Despite being shot like that, he was still able to reach into his truck and retrieve a shotgun which he used to kill his assailant.... one shot at close range... with #8 shot. He said it blew a hole clear through the assailant's chest that you could put your fist through. Granted, the person shot with .44 is to this day paralyzed from the waist down, but survived 6 shots with a .44 at close range and killed his assailant at close range with #8 shot. As far as someone jacked up on drugs these days, I can say from dealing with people that have been high on anything that has fentanyl in it, it is like dealing with someone on cranked up PCP. You could hit them with a Mack truck or a .50BMG and they would shake it off and keep coming.
I thought after the great financial crisis in 2008 that we were going to see a Sea change in how people operated their finances and how our economies were running. And nothing happened at all.
I thought I saw a YouTube video about cutting a shotgun shell case above the brass and it then acting like a slug?
Not that A slug is the optimal shotgun load come on but if all you have is number nine shotshells it’s better to have some thing that can reach out further than you can throw a knife. Did I really see that?
I didn't think I would see a discussion about the relative merits of birdshot for self defense and never would expect cut shells to be mentioned on M4C, but here we are :)
We’ve always called it “ringing a shell”, good for blowing out squirrel nests, killed a few deer with them. Cut it about middle of the wad, shove the shot section in the chamber then the lower half in behind it.
I’ve read that this is a dangerous practice because you’re launching the whole front of the shell, which is a larger diameter than the shot column that the forcing cone/bore/choke are made for, so it produces higher pressure. Never tried it myself; I just use the correct ammo for the critter I’m trying to kill.
I’ve read that this is a dangerous practice because you’re launching the whole front of the shell, which is a larger diameter than the shot column that the forcing cone/bore/choke are made for, so it produces higher pressure. Never tried it myself; I just use the correct ammo for the critter I’m trying to kill.
I hope you always have the correct ammo at hand, I am more of an opportunist. I’ve shot hundreds (if not thousands) of rung shells, thru everything from old H&R crack barrels to my Benelli, never had an issue. I doubt the people using rung shells to knock 3 squirrels out of a nest are writing many books, articles, blog entries or infomercials on the practice...
I didn't think I would see a discussion about the relative merits of birdshot for self defense and never would expect cut shells to be mentioned on M4C, but here we are :)
Yeah, this thread is just full of bad advice.
If it’s all you got you use it, and be glad you got it.
A load of 3 dram #7.5s at 50 yards might not even make it thru a heavy shirt, but a take that same shell, ring it, and hit your target at 50 and said target is in for a bad day.
I’m not an elitist cuck that was raised with a silver spoon, we ate what my daddy killed or caught most of the time and I can see my time at M4C is dwindling down to the short rows.
MA2_Navy_Veteran
03-26-20, 10:11
Wow, thank God I bought mine cheap & stacked it deep years ago. Haven't seen the online sources this scarce since the early Obama days. Tards are going to tard I suppose.
Grand58742
03-26-20, 10:19
My boss asked my if I had "any extra ammo" this morning for the AR I built him some years ago. I told him I did and asked how much he needed.
Apparently, he just needs enough for the one magazine he still has for it that I provided...
MA2_Navy_Veteran
03-26-20, 10:26
Look on the bright side - When all the ammo does eventually start to come back into supply, at least you'll know it's freshly made. :p
Averageman
03-26-20, 10:33
I set Five K of 5.56 and 9mm as the minimum that I will keep on hand.
I just rotate the range use stock and buy when I see a deal.
Outside of CV, you can actually plan your purchases around election years
Here a video message from Freedom Munitions.
Telling everyone to stay calm they are working on your order., they are about 7500 orders behind.
https://youtu.be/FQFrLOwbWQA
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When this first started, ammo never crossed my mind. Maybe cause I planned a head and have plenty.
I still trying to figure out why everyone is freaking out so much. None of the other stuff we had over the years , nobody freaked out about.
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teufelhund1918
03-26-20, 11:06
Local gun shop has an order in for 40,000 rounds of 5.56 that they have not received yet. They let people reserve it for purchase starting Tuesday. They were down to 8,000 left for purchase yesterday. I live in a rural area. I was shocked at how fast the news traveled.
When this first started, ammo never crossed my mind. Maybe cause I planned a head and have plenty.
I still trying to figure out why everyone is freaking out so much. None of the other stuff we had over the years , nobody freaked out about.
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Because of the 24/7 news coverage that the end of the world is upon us.
Straight Shooter
03-26-20, 11:22
One thing, too about guns & ammo being made now...I would bet the farm that QC levels have dropped dramatically. Especially lower tier stuff that had the most problems anyway.
Were I buying something in the next little while made recently, Id give it a most thorough going before leave the store.
If it’s all you got you use it, and be glad you got it.
A load of 3 dram #7.5s at 50 yards might not even make it thru a heavy shirt, but a take that same shell, ring it, and hit your target at 50 and said target is in for a bad day.
I’m not an elitist cuck that was raised with a silver spoon, we ate what my daddy killed or caught most of the time and I can see my time at M4C is dwindling down to the short rows.
Ryan, I did some experimenting with cut shells but only out of 18" cylinder or improved cylinder barrels on our training shotguns. Haven't shot any through a barrel with screw in choke tubes. What chokes have you shot them through?
At work we had a book on gun shoot wound characteristics by a pathologist who had performed over a 1,000 gunshot wound PM's. There were several examples of the results of what he called 'Hillbilly Slugs' - pretty effective. That's what led me to fool around with some cut 71/2 shot shells.
I could hit metal torsos at 25yds, but all over; at 10 yards precision was much better; I don't know that I would have been hitting at 50 yards. I was just fooling around so didn't really document.
As an interesting note, the pathologist who wrote the text I mentioned earlier also stated that he had never seen a case of secondary injury due to over-penetration from either the standard or 'Hillbilly Slugs.' That's not to say that a slug couldn't go through and through, just that he hadn't seen any cases where there were injuries to others as a result.
sundance435
03-26-20, 13:15
One thing, too about guns & ammo being made now...I would bet the farm that QC levels have dropped dramatically. Especially lower tier stuff that had the most problems anyway.
Were I buying something in the next little while made recently, Id give it a most thorough going before leave the store.
It's been studied across all kinds of product categories. You'd probably lose that bet. It's just access to information, generally anecdotal, at your fingertips creating that impression. You can absolutely still find garbage products if you look, but the mean is much higher and it's much easier to buy quality without putting in a lot of work - guns, ammo, toasters, etc.
Ryan, I did some experimenting with cut shells but only out of 18" cylinder or improved cylinder barrels on our training shotguns. Haven't shot any through a barrel with screw in choke tubes. What chokes have you shot them through?
At work we had a book on gun shoot wound characteristics by a pathologist who had performed over a 1,000 gunshot wound PM's. There were several examples of the results of what he called 'Hillbilly Slugs' - pretty effective. That's what led me to fool around with some cut 71/2 shot shells.
I could hit metal torsos at 25yds, but all over; at 10 yards precision was much better; I don't know that I would have been hitting at 50 yards. I was just fooling around so didn't really document.
As an interesting note, the pathologist who wrote the text I mentioned earlier also stated that he had never seen a case of secondary injury due to over-penetration from either the standard or 'Hillbilly Slugs.' That's not to say that a slug couldn't go through and through, just that he hadn't seen any cases where there were injuries to others as a result.
50 yards is extreme, all deer were killed 25 yards and in. Yes I know it wasn’t proper or probably legal, but then again neither was poaching the kings deer in early October on the national forest... None of the “slugs” exited with the the plastic hull just penetrating the rib cage and the shot perforating the lungs. I don’t remember having to blood trail them far. 28” barrels and modified chokes mostly although I’m sure there were full chokes involved, nothing tactical just meat guns. We never really paid attention to that back then as all we had was the choke in the barrel. It’s a one shot affair, nothing you could reload fast if your life depended on it. I haven’t killed a deer with one in a long time but I won’t hesitate to use one as a nest remover if my cur dog says there’s a squirrel in it.
Straight Shooter
03-26-20, 14:26
It's been studied across all kinds of product categories. You'd probably lose that bet. It's just access to information, generally anecdotal, at your fingertips creating that impression. You can absolutely still find garbage products if you look, but the mean is much higher and it's much easier to buy quality without putting in a lot of work - guns, ammo, toasters, etc.
Could you provide me a couple of those studies? Id love to read them.
Truthfully- Ive already seen it before, Sandy Hook comes to mind. A LOT of bad stuff sold during that era- you can go back on this very forum & read for yourself, along with my & other friends personal instances.
Again- as I said- lower tier stuff is usually the ones who suffer most. As of now, a lot of old stock from last year is still being sold. As it transitions into things made, say from mid-Feb to to later, lets watch & see what happens. In a mad rush to put product out the door, happens every time. Ive been in manufacturing in one way or another for decades- Ive seen it too many times.
Business_Casual
03-26-20, 14:43
It's been studied across all kinds of product categories. You'd probably lose that bet. It's just access to information, generally anecdotal, at your fingertips creating that impression. You can absolutely still find garbage products if you look, but the mean is much higher and it's much easier to buy quality without putting in a lot of work - guns, ammo, toasters, etc.
Yeah, why ruin your business with warranty work six months later.
Happened to me with two BCM BCGs sold during that time. One in a upper and one stand alone. So it can happen to the big boys also. I agree with Sundance, I would not buy anything new for a while.
MA2_Navy_Veteran
03-26-20, 14:47
Could you provide me a couple of those studies? Id love to read them.
Truthfully- Ive already seen it before, Sandy Hook comes to mind. A LOT of bad stuff sold during that era- you can go back on this very forum & read for yourself, along with my & other friends personal instances.
Again- as I said- lower tier stuff is usually the ones who suffer most. As of now, a lot of old stock from last year is still being sold. As it transitions into things made, say from mid-Feb to to later, lets watch & see what happens. In a mad rush to put product out the door, happens every time. Ive been in manufacturing in one way or another for decades- Ive seen it too many times.
Yes, except the mainstream ammunition manufacturers have never (ever) been in a rush to get out ammunition for civilian sales, their main focus is on government contracts, which pretty much plug along at a fixed rate, which as a result leads to a pretty fixed rate of surplus ammunition, with a quality that is determined by computer inspection... so the end result is that newly manufactured ammo has virtually the exact same quality as previously manufactured ammo regardless of the times we're in.
The only thing that really changes (short of being on a war-time footing) is the demand, which currently is running at tremendously stupid-high levels.
Grand58742
03-26-20, 14:48
Ammo seemed to be the issue for me last time. I bought some Blazer brass .45 ACP that I found out later hadn't been crimped at all. I had several bullet setbacks in the first few mags.
So while I'm not technically staying with the direction this thread is going. I did order 1.5k rounds on the 10th, before I even realized a frenzy had started and that apparently just shipped. So just over 2 weeks for 55gr to ship.
I’ve read that this is a dangerous practice because you’re launching the whole front of the shell, which is a larger diameter than the shot column that the forcing cone/bore/choke are made for, so it produces higher pressure. Never tried it myself; I just use the correct ammo for the critter I’m trying to kill.
I have heard the biggest issue is a part of the "projectile" getting stuck in the barrel which is why break actions are usually "recommended" so it is easier to verify clear between shots.
Not the best option, but if it is the only ad hoc option it is like anything else in being good to know.
I have heard the biggest issue is a part of the "projectile" getting stuck in the barrel which is why break actions are usually "recommended" so it is easier to verify clear between shots.
Not the best option, but if it is the only ad hoc option it is like anything else in being good to know.
What I’ve seen is that the cut’s are ineffective and the round fires as normal, then during extraction the round is ripped in half, leaving the cut portion in the chamber and making the gun inoperable.
Realisticly, any way you look at it, the “hillbilly slug” is just a bad idea.
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What I’ve seen is that the cut’s are ineffective and the round fires as normal, then during extraction the round is ripped in half, leaving the cut portion in the chamber and making the gun inoperable.
Realisticly, any way you look at it, the “hillbilly slug” is just a bad idea.
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I don't disagree and would never advocate for something so hillbilly, however I've seen many whitetail taken with them over the years, especially in the 80's and 90's.
What I’ve seen is that the cut’s are ineffective and the round fires as normal, then during extraction the round is ripped in half, leaving the cut portion in the chamber and making the gun inoperable.
Realisticly, any way you look at it, the “hillbilly slug” is just a bad idea.
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Cut it all the way thru, insert upper half first then insert brass half.
https://youtu.be/YYk8fez2d0w
Dirk Williams
03-27-20, 12:55
I called my bullet guy asked him to look into three thousand 308 NATO. Called back last night said zero problems sourcing it, but it was 67 cents a round. Wanted 2300.00 for it. I'm have lots and lots of ammo, so it's not needed. Just thought I'd inquire.
We recently did some trading, I ponied up one of my AR180s," Costa Mesa" for one of his BM59s. " origional" we're both happy. Found a deal on 20 BM mags, snapped em up.
I've gone back to carrying battle rifles, recently changed out my truck gun, for a chopped FNFAL. High plains here, 4200 ft.
Several months ago started building m4s again. What was the best kit 10 years ago, now seems to have a lot of competition.
Three on the bench, awaiting A-5 vltor recoil systems. I'm having a tough time sourcing good parts. Ever body must be building.
Paul Harrell has some videos up on the effects of various shot loads(and rifle/pistol) on residential walls. He isn't making recommendations, just demonstrating effects so folks can make a better informed decision.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6QH13V2o68zynSa0hZy9uQ
I’m not an elitist cuck that was raised with a silver spoon, we ate what my daddy killed or caught most of the time and I can see my time at M4C is dwindling down to the short rows.
You aren’t the only one who grew up dirt poor, and I can understand what you mean. HOWEVER..... insinuating that everyone else is a silver spooned cuck, is no better than “hillbilly” comments.
You aren’t the only one who grew up dirt poor, and I can understand what you mean. HOWEVER..... insinuating that everyone else is a silver spooned cuck, is no better than “hillbilly” comments.
I was pointing that at a specific couple, wasn’t aiming at everyone. However, with the utmost respect for you sir, you may take it how you want it.
I always thought M4C was the cream of the crop, never been to any other forum until recently. The uber elitist thing chaps me and I’m not an as good as guy either...
My well worn main BCM is wearing its aimpoint between fixed irons with a surefire @ 12:00 just like Mr Vickers approves of and nothing else but my old beat to shit 870 has the old shell bag still hanging on it full of #6s, a squirrel call and a uncle Henry in there just for ringin’ shells. It ain’t dangerous, stupid or bad, it does however flat work when needed.
Shotshells are the best all around food getters to stock. Bought 5 more cases day before yesterday at academy, even 2 cases of 3 1/8 dram #6s.
I have a feeling some of the old ways are gonna make a come back in the next years for those who survive the beer flu, hopefully I’m wrong and y’all don’t have to learn that the squirrel back is the best part.
I was pointing that at a specific couple, wasn’t aiming at everyone. However, with the utmost respect for you sir, you may take it how you want it.
I always thought M4C was the cream of the crop, never been to any other forum until recently. The uber elitist thing chaps me and I’m not an as good as guy either...
My well worn main BCM is wearing its aimpoint between fixed irons with a surefire @ 12:00 just like Mr Vickers approves of and nothing else but my old beat to shit 870 has the old shell bag still hanging on it full of #6s, a squirrel call and a uncle Henry in there just for ringin’ shells. It ain’t dangerous, stupid or bad, it does however flat work when needed.
Shotshells are the best all around food getters to stock. Bought 5 more cases day before yesterday at academy, even 2 cases of 3 1/8 dram #6s.
I have a feeling some of the old ways are gonna make a come back in the next years for those who survive the beer flu, hopefully I’m wrong and y’all don’t have to learn that the squirrel back is the best part.
You keep mentioning squirrels when you talk about cut shells, which has me a little confused. Could you elaborate on that association?
You keep mentioning squirrels when you talk about cut shells, which has me a little confused. Could you elaborate on that association?
Shoot a nest with bird shot first then knock it out with a cut shell.
SeriousStudent
03-28-20, 11:11
I was pointing that at a specific couple, wasn’t aiming at everyone. However, with the utmost respect for you sir, you may take it how you want it.
I always thought M4C was the cream of the crop, never been to any other forum until recently. The uber elitist thing chaps me and I’m not an as good as guy either...
My well worn main BCM is wearing its aimpoint between fixed irons with a surefire @ 12:00 just like Mr Vickers approves of and nothing else but my old beat to shit 870 has the old shell bag still hanging on it full of #6s, a squirrel call and a uncle Henry in there just for ringin’ shells. It ain’t dangerous, stupid or bad, it does however flat work when needed.
Shotshells are the best all around food getters to stock. Bought 5 more cases day before yesterday at academy, even 2 cases of 3 1/8 dram #6s.
I have a feeling some of the old ways are gonna make a come back in the next years for those who survive the beer flu, hopefully I’m wrong and y’all don’t have to learn that the squirrel back is the best part.
Ryan, if you have an issue with someone here, take it to PM or contact a mod/staff member. Or use the Report Post button, that has always worked.
You will find that most members here don't like being referred to as uber elitists, hillbillys or cucks.
So how about we dial back the rhetoric, and go back to polite conversations about ammo?
Ryan, if you have an issue with someone here, take it to PM or contact a mod/staff member. Or use the Report Post button, that has always worked.
You will find that most members here don't like being referred to as uber elitists, hillbillys or cucks.
So how about we dial back the rhetoric, and go back to polite conversations about ammo?
Will do.
Grand58742
03-28-20, 11:26
SGAmmo has apparently opened back up from the backorders. However, this was posted on their site:
Due to the danger from the Coronavirus, SGAmmo has sent all employees who have been deemed to be at higher risk on 2 weeks paid leave, leaving us with approximately 25% of our normal work force. We will be running a skeleton crew for the immediate future, however this greatly reduces our capacity to pick, pack and ship orders and we will only be listing very limited selections of ammo for sale until things return to normal. There will be times when no products are listed, but options will come and go as capacity allows. Orders placed at this time are expected to ship Monday the 30th, Tuesday the 31st or Wednesday the 1st.
Limited supplies of 5.56, 9mm and .45 ACP minly premium stuff and some bulk 7.62x39 ammo.
Ammo2Go seems to have decent stocks back in, though a few are priced higher than normal. Same thing with Ammoman. J&G Sales seems to have fairly normal prices, though shipping it delayed by a week and they are wiped out of .45 ACP.
Just for giggles, Cheaper than Dirt has some bulk ammo back in. WWB 55 grain .223, $399 for a thousand. Seems like they brought their prices back down again. Still won't buy from them.
SGAmmo has apparently opened back up from the backorders. However, this was posted on their site:
Limited supplies of 5.56, 9mm and .45 ACP minly premium stuff and some bulk 7.62x39 ammo.
Ammo2Go seems to have decent stocks back in, though a few are priced higher than normal. Same thing with Ammoman. J&G Sales seems to have fairly normal prices, though shipping it delayed by a week and they are wiped out of .45 ACP.
Just for giggles, Cheaper than Dirt has some bulk ammo back in. WWB 55 grain .223, $399 for a thousand. Seems like they brought their prices back down again. Still won't buy from them.Wow I'm actually shocked at CTD. Only $400!?! For them that's like giving away for free
Shoot a nest with bird shot first then knock it out with a cut shell.
Thank you for clarification. Personally, I tend to put rodents on the table via 22lr.
Grand58742
03-28-20, 16:21
Wow I'm actually shocked at CTD. Only $400!?! For them that's like giving away for free
Far better than the buck a round they were asking for the green tip last week.
Still wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
SeriousStudent
03-28-20, 19:15
Far better than the buck a round they were asking for the green tip last week.
Still wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
Somewhere on an old cell phone I have a pic from their McKinney Texas store with PMAG's stamped at the low everyday price of $99.99 each.
"No, we do not charge a hundred bucks a magazine..."
I've never been put-off around here by folks with lots of tactical and law enforcement experience. This place has never come across as being elitist.
As far as my pre-Army background, I was rural middle class who needed an Army Scholarship to pay for college. My family were common as dirt, but with the notoriety as being one of New Mexico's first families. I have more in common with salt-of-the-earth folks than high dollar people, but I can operate in all social circles. One of my best country associates from my Army days was a First Sergeant from Appalachia. He always talked about eating Boiled Hoot Owl. Never got the chance to sample that delicacy, but I'd eat it if that was on the table at his home.
Speaking of ammo, I need another 1000 rounds of Lake City XM193.....
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-29-20, 03:32
I've never been put-off around here by folks with lots of tactical and law enforcement experience. This place has never come across as being elitist.
As far as my pre-Army background, I was rural middle class who needed an Army Scholarship to pay for college. My family were common as dirt, but with the notoriety as being one of New Mexico's first families. I have more in common with salt-of-the-earth folks than high dollar people, but I can operate in all social circles. One of my best country associates from my Army days was a First Sergeant from Appalachia. He always talked about eating Boiled Hoot Owl. Never got the chance to sample that delicacy, but I'd eat it if that was on the table at his home.
Speaking of ammo, I need another 1000 rounds of Lake City XM193.....
It's not like I have a minigun or anything, but 1000 rounds, especially if you have a couple of adults around, can be a nice range day. 10 mags each? Not crazy.
I order in threes, and I'm sure some might think "Why bother" even at that level.
sundance435
03-30-20, 11:41
Wow I'm actually shocked at CTD. Only $400!?! For them that's like giving away for free
As I was going out for a quick range trip Saturday, I noticed I was getting low on 9mm JHP (apparently I burned through a lot of the HSTs I had). I have an order for HSTs outstanding from Target Sports, but they're saying 15 days to ship. I happened to find Win Ranger Bonded at CTD, saying "in stock", and they were only $24/50. No idea why it's priced pretty attractively, but I ordered 4 boxes. We'll see if I get it. It might end up being the "Z" stuff that SGAmmo has, which I haven't had any problems with, but it's not advertised as such.
The only 5.56 they had was belted Magtech at like $700 for 900 rounds.
Every year I order 5,000 rounds of 9mm and 5,000 rounds of 5.56 as a baseline. I put this ammo in cans and label them by date purchased, type and cost- just for grins... If there are really good deals etc- as there have been for the last 3 years...I order more...
Had a class two weekends ago. Went to my ammo locker. Pulled out a .30 cal can of 9mm- 1,250 rounds.... Remington UMC, purchased from Walmart in 2006. $7/50. I have at least a 14 year supply of ammo at current consumption rates....
tmwtrfwler
04-03-20, 14:33
crazy times. Target Sports had speer in stock this morning for the first time since this all started. it was all gone by lunchtime. duty ammo remained. clearly people don't plan. I don't suspect a ton of new gun owners are buying by the case either. they're probably buying a box or two as allowed at the time of their new gun purchase.
my father always taught us the P's. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. others need to learn it i guess.
crazy times. Target Sports had speer in stock this morning for the first time since this all started. it was all gone by lunchtime. duty ammo remained. clearly people don't plan. I don't suspect a ton of new gun owners are buying by the case either. they're probably buying a box or two as allowed at the time of their new gun purchase.
my father always taught us the P's. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. others need to learn it i guess.
I actually had an order with them (Target Sports) on March 4th that they cancelled and reimbursed me for. I used to get Armscor 62gr and PPU 308 for cheap through them. At the time I didn't even realize there was a buying panic until a week or so later.
tmwtrfwler
04-03-20, 15:02
I actually had an order with them (Target Sports) on March 4th that they cancelled and reimbursed me for. I used to get Armscor 62gr and PPU 308 for cheap through them. At the time I didn't even realize there was a buying panic until a week or so later.
why did they cancel?
I’ve seen an increase in dealer cost on ammo across the board, some of it is substantial. We used to sell S&B 9mm 115gr for 8.49. Box, I can’t even buy it at that price anymore.
sundance435
04-03-20, 15:08
why did they cancel?
That is odd, since I'm pretty sure they have real-time inventory tracking. I've lost count of the times they've had Ranger in stock and it's gone before I can even check out. I haven't really noticed their prices being higher, so I doubt it was that.
why did they cancel?
My exact email from them.
Dear *****,
We are very sorry to inform you that your order ****** has been voided and full refund has been issued back to the Credit Card you've used to make the purchase.
If you have any further questions, please call us at 1-860-426-9886
Monday-Friday 9:00am-5:00pm
Thank you for your support
Team Target Sports USA
Grand58742
04-03-20, 15:34
why did they cancel?
I'm wondering if imports might be slowing down at the moment because of the virus?
crazy times. Target Sports had speer in stock this morning for the first time since this all started. it was all gone by lunchtime. duty ammo remained. clearly people don't plan. I don't suspect a ton of new gun owners are buying by the case either. they're probably buying a box or two as allowed at the time of their new gun purchase.
my father always taught us the P's. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. others need to learn it i guess.
This is actually at least the third time they’ve had it in stock since the beginning. I used to order it for around $180-185 I think, then it jumped to $220ish. Today it was listed over $250.
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That's what companies do.
If they think they can get more for it theyll cancel existing orders then raise the price.
Or have the product show low numbers then out of stock to encourage buying. Over and over as the price climbs.
Both work.
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