What kind of accuracy to expect from the "FBI Load" 5.56 TBBC?

[ABNAK]

The Federal XM556SBCT3, 62 grain Bonded Softpoint FBI Equivalent Load. I've heard a sniper or Camp Perry round it's not, but what would one reasonably expect accuracy-wise? (MOA)

[gaijin]

We were getting 3 MOA if we worked at it, this with carbines easily capable of 1.5 MOA using proven ammo.
This, and the fact it was difficult to source caused us to go with 64 and 75 gr Gold Dot.

Others may have different results.

[ggammell]

The X are factory second/out of spec for one reason or another. Some of the specific complaints are accuracy. Also that is an SBR spec round and some have report weird pressure issues in longer barrels.

[ABNAK]

The X are factory second/out of spec for one reason or another. Some of the specific complaints are accuracy. Also that is an SBR spec round and some have report weird pressure issues in longer barrels.

Like????

Per the Bone Frog website: 5.56 62GR Federal Tactical Bonded (XM556SBCT3), Federal 62 grain Bonded Softpoint FBI Equivalent Load; per the manufacturer, this is the same round as XM556FBIT3, it was given a different SKU # for non-FBI contracts. This ammo is one of the most advanced designs for personal protection or law enforcement.

Now not saying for sure that it isn't factory seconds, but most reputable places will denote factory seconds in their ads and pics. The pics did not show the factory "Use for training only" warning sticker (I've bought from them before and it didn't have that sticker).

[ggammell]

Like????

Per the Bone Frog website: 5.56 62GR Federal Tactical Bonded (XM556SBCT3), Federal 62 grain Bonded Softpoint FBI Equivalent Load; per the manufacturer, this is the same round as XM556FBIT3, it was given a different SKU # for non-FBI contracts. This ammo is one of the most advanced designs for personal protection or law enforcement.

Now not saying for sure that it isn't factory seconds, but most reputable places will denote factory seconds in their ads and pics. The pics did not show the factory "Use for training only" warning sticker (I've bought from them before and it didn't have that sticker).

I spent all day looking for the exact notes my buddy experienced. So what might be better termed was not to contract spec and hence sent to retail. Molon, of all people, posted his eval of it TODAY on several sites so if you check around you’ll probably find it. Accuracy was not good compared to its retail line and fed tactical cousin. 1.89” from the gun that he can damn near put rounds through the same hole with.

[ruckusjuice]

I wish people would stop saying that the X in the SKU denotes factory seconds or contract rejects. It does not. I know for a fact that the carbine duty ammo of at least one large federal LE agency has an SKU that starts with X.

[ggammell]

I wish people would stop saying that the X in the SKU denotes factory seconds or contract rejects. It does not. I know for a fact that the carbine duty ammo of at least one large federal LE agency has an SKU that starts with X.

Ok. Show us.

[ruckusjuice]

Ok. Show us.
Federal xm223sp1pb is a current issue loading for DHS. Here’s a .gov report available on google that mentions it Link (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc298837/m1/43/)

[ABNAK]

I thought rejects (from Federal at least) had a white sticker on each box that said "For Training Use Only" on them. Like you can't miss it.

[kerplode]

I have a bit of XM556FBIT3M in my stash that I bought a few years back. They function 100%, but the accuracy isn't great. Maybe 3-4 MOA.

They are clearly marked as seconds on the boxes with the comment "ACCY OUT", so it's not all that surprising.
61391

[BillB]

I'm seeing just over 1.5moa to 2+moa out of 3 Noveske 14.5" barrels at 100 yards so I think its capable of the accuracy, not Camp Perry or sniper level like you said, but its capable, at least the lots of it I have and shot. The groups that are closer to 1moa are less frequent than the 2ish moa ones. I've not shot any that produced 3 or more moa. Of course I dont think it's intended to be capable of precision like most of us think of precision is it?

I have over 5000 of the TBBC bullets (guess what I've been doing with my forced time off) and have loaded some decent loads with them using 24.8gr of Vhitavuori N530 (over published max 3048 fps,23ft SD) 25.0gr of WC844 (H335) 24.2gr of WC844 and 23.6gr of 8208xbr. Accuracy is not much better but does seem to be more consistent and those loads are closer to MOA than the factory loads I have (3 different lots).

[Pappabear]

I've never seen factory seconds rounds or boxes. Don't buy a lot of factory, but what does this factory second fodder sale for on the street?

I would hope an FBI load would produce 2 MOA at WORST. Jeez man. Do they have to run sft points or some shite? Black Hills OTM is the goods for factory IMHO.

PB

[ggammell]

I've never seen factory seconds rounds or boxes. Don't buy a lot of factory, but what does this factory second fodder sale for on the street?

I would hope an FBI load would produce 2 MOA at WORST. Jeez man. Do they have to run sft points or some shite? Black Hills OTM is the goods for factory IMHO.

PB

It’s not cheap. Especially for stuff that doesn’t make the cut. FBI has a contract for a stated accuracy level. Those lots that don’t make the cut are put on the commercial market.

And JSP are the go to for human threats, it’s not all precision marksmanship.

[Safton]

I've never seen factory seconds rounds or boxes. Don't buy a lot of factory, but what does this factory second fodder sale for on the street?

I would hope an FBI load would produce 2 MOA at WORST. Jeez man. Do they have to run sft points or some shite? Black Hills OTM is the goods for factory IMHO.

PB


Why would they want Black Hills OTM? The FBI has stressed barrier-blind performance in their ammunition -- pistol and rifle -- for decades now. Heavy OTMs for all their benefits have their performance severely degraded by intermediate barriers.

JSPs are great rounds for the niche and uses the FBI finds themselves in.

[Coal Dragger]

I've never seen factory seconds rounds or boxes. Don't buy a lot of factory, but what does this factory second fodder sale for on the street?

I would hope an FBI load would produce 2 MOA at WORST. Jeez man. Do they have to run sft points or some shite? Black Hills OTM is the goods for factory IMHO.

PB

About the only thing OTM bullets are good for is punching paper or steel. There’s a reason end users looking for on target performance that can choose their projectile usually choose something else.

[ggammell]

7 rounds (from the same box of 20) of the XM556FBIT3 with a 77gr IMI SMK for reference. These were case gauged after the brand new gun with in spec chamber failed to chamber them. Note the dents at the neck from the force of the BCG trying to close on the out of spec case. The X. It means something. Source is the proverbial internet friend of a friend. They have the job and certs to back up the claim.

61745

61746

[Coal Dragger]

I’d be tempted to pull the bullets dump the powder, and resize the cases and reload them.

Or just use the bullets as component bullets if the price was low enough.

[SBRSarge]

I’ve bought thousands of XM loads from Federal over my time as range sergeant. They have all been regular production, not seconds.

As for the original question. No, the 62gr Federal bonded loads (whether the 5.56 specifically mentioned or the LE223T3 loads) are not tack drivers. In my good rifles, I see 5 shot groups at 100yds going from the occasional 1” to the more common 2.5“ to 3”. This is fine for most all of the police engagements that will occur, especially with patrol officers using red dots. Were I wanting more precision, I would look at some of the Black Hills loads, especially with the Barnes TSX bullets. I like the Black Hills 62gr TSX round for personal use. But am using the LE223Ts round for duty as it is department issued.

I have also tried the Ranger 64gr and found it to be on par for accuracy with the Federal bonded loads.

As a bonus, the LE223T3 loads have a nickel case so I can immediately know whether the magazine is filled with range fodder or carry ammo.

The emphasis on these rounds (both Federal and Ranger) is on what they do when they hit the ‘combat scoring’ zone on a bad guy. They are both excellent in that regard, both with and without barriers.



In the end, we tend to over think this. Here is a simple 4 step process...

1) Buy samples of a few rounds that perform well when they hit the target (Refer to FBI tests as a good resource, available on letter head from Quantico, or study Molon’s posts).

2) Shoot these sample loads to see which ones are acceptable through your rifle as far as grouping.

3) Buy more of those.

4) Buy similar weight FMJ rounds and practice.

Number 4 is far and away the most important.

[Tokarev]

I have...loaded some decent loads...using 25.0gr of WC844 (H335) 24.2gr of WC844...

Can you confirm you're loading 24.2 and 25.0 grains of 844 or is the second 844 load a typo? 842 maybe? Thanks.


Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[Furbyballer]

They have have been 1.5-2.25 moa for me and my guns. I would recommend the gold dot offering in 62/64 grain and the 75 grain if accurate barrier blind ammo is the goal and you can take a slight velocity hit.

[MarshallDodge]

I recently loaded up what I believe are some of these 62 grain bonded bullets from pulled down ammunition. One 5-shot group in my first test is showing just shy of 2" at 100 yards.

N133 was the powder used which is fairly close to 844. Next is 8208XBR to see if a touch slower powder, and some added velocity, will give an improvement.

[aklaunch]

Some bullets just don't shoot well in NATO chambers. Its not the rifle!!!! Its not the bullet!

Put them in a Wylde chamber and groups can be cut in half. Its just the way it goes.

Try AR-Comp with the low 60 grain weights. Usually you can find accuracy in the low 2800's, then again around 2900 fps or so from a 16 inch barrel.

[BobinNC]

It's been my experience that TBBC component bullet don't shoot well in any 223/5.56 chamber. By not well I mean not as accurate like 69 SMK's can be.

In this case it's the bullet....IMHO and YMMV

[MarshallDodge]

It's been my experience that TBBC component bullet don't shoot well in any 223/5.56 chamber. By not well I mean not as accurate like 69 SMK's can be.

In this case it's the bullet....IMHO and YMMV
I agree.

In my recent test that yielded a 2" group, I was shooting them out of a standard 223 Remington chamber, bolt action, with a 1:7 twist. It will typically put the 69 SMK into a 1/2" group.

[BobinNC]

I agree.

In my recent test that yielded a 2" group, I was shooting them out of a standard 223 Remington chamber, bolt action, with a 1:7 twist. It will typically put the 69 SMK into a 1/2" group.

Don't get me wrong. The .224 TBBC bullets are superb as barrier blind projectiles. They are just not accurate. And not being match projectiles I was willing to grant them allowances. But constant 1 3/4" to 2 1/2" groups are unacceptable
for my handloaded ammo. I stopped using them when they ran out.

For I while I shot Nosler's 64 grain solid base bonded that I had on hand in some quantity, which shot better even though they are as aerodynamic as a cinder block, until they became mostly unobtainable.

I now rely on Speer's 62 grain Gold Dot, which shoots well to just over 1 to 1 1/4 MOA (for 5 shots) with 25.2 grains of TAC, in LC brass and CCI 450 Primer, @ 2.250" COAL, in my 16" 1-8 twist barrel. And they fly a bit better than the Noslers.

I have about 1,000 of these component bullets on hand, and they have been widely available in spurts lately.

I would prefer to use the 75 grain Gold Dot component bullet, but those have been unobtainable anywhere for near 3 years.

[MegademiC]

Ive had consistent 1.3" groups from fusion 62gr. Imo best value of price/performane/accuracy. Ive taken them to past 500yds.

Imo a well rounded load should be ... well-rounded and predictable.

[MarshallDodge]

Don't get me wrong. The .224 TBBC bullets are superb as barrier blind projectiles. They are just not accurate. And not being match projectiles I was willing to grant them allowances. But constant 1 3/4" to 2 1/2" groups are unacceptable
for my handloaded ammo. I stopped using them when they ran out.

For I while I shot Nosler's 64 grain solid base bonded that I had on hand in some quantity, which shot better even though they are as aerodynamic as a cinder block, until they became mostly unobtainable.

I now rely on Speer's 62 grain Gold Dot, which shoots well to just over 1 to 1 1/4 MOA (for 5 shots) with 25.2 grains of TAC, in LC brass and CCI 450 Primer, @ 2.250" COAL, in my 16" 1-8 twist barrel. And they fly a bit better than the Noslers.

I have about 1,000 of these component bullets on hand, and they have been widely available in spurts lately.

I would prefer to use the 75 grain Gold Dot component bullet, but those have been unobtainable anywhere for near 3 years.

I'm not getting you wrong 😎

These 62 TBBC bullets that I have were about the same price as a Hornady 55 FMJ when I purchased them. I'll load them up and keep some around for the role they were intended, inside of 100 yards.

My defense load is the 75 Gold Dot and wrote about it on here when they first came out. Accuracy was very good for a defense/hunting bullet.

[Molon]

Factory loads topped with the 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw


Federal Tactical 62 grain Bonded SP LE223T3

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/federal_bonded_62_sp_group_02-1985399-3120521.jpg



Federal XM556FBIT3

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/federal_xm556fbit3_10_shot_group_measure-3120522.jpg



Federal XM556SBCT3 62 Grain TBBC

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/federal_xm556sbct3_10_shot_group_measure-3120523.jpg



To show what premium 62-64 grain bonded bullets are capable of . . .

Hand-loaded 62 grain Gold Dot . . .

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/speer_62_grain_gold_dot_handload_001-3120525.jpg



Hand-loaded 64 grain Nosler BSB . . .

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/nosler_64_grain_bsb_10_shot_group_at_100-3120524.jpg


…..

[MarshallDodge]

Thanks for posting @Molon I thought I had seen all of your tests but not those.

As I mentioned earlier, I picked up the 64 TBBC on clearance and am going to use them for close work. Over the weekend, I loaded some 62 Gold Dots. If they are anything like the 75s, I expect them to shoot well.

I have never tried the Nosler 64 BSB but I do have some Winchester 64 PSP. Has anyone tried testing them for accuracy? DocGKR said that they have a good track record for stopping threats.

[triggerjerk]

Loaded some Win 64gr power point some years ago with 335. No chrono. Best I remember, <1.5 at 100 in a poverty pony. Killed 3 whitetail with em but can't describe performance other than neck shots kill.....

[ABNAK]

From looking at them the TBBC bullets are kind of "sloppy" from an aerodynamic POV as compared to, say, a 62gr Fusion or 64gr Gold Dot. The TBBC has the lead kind of "splat" in there; the Gold Dot and Fusion are more "trimmed" and streamlined for flight. Of course that big-ass soft-point on the TBBC is probably why it has it's reputation for terminal ballistics.