View Full Version : $1000 maximum budget: duty grade LPVO
For the LPVO’s in the under 1000 range, what would you recommend for a setup that’s meant to be a duty-grade/fighting rifle build? Intended usage would be defense/SHTF, where reliability is paramount? After doing some preliminary research, I do have some models in mind, but wanted another take, and maybe see if there were any advances in optics that would give new options. Thanks in advance.
Mount included? If not, you can find used razors for about $950. That’s about as duty grade as you can get.
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Mount included? If not, you can find used razors for about $950. That’s about as duty grade as you can get.
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A used Razor might be an option. Are there any offerings I’d be able to get new for under a grand?
turnburglar
04-04-20, 22:32
If your optic is gonna be barely shot and never carried, it doesn't really matter? Like do you even know what qualities you want in an optic besides: "end of the world reliability"? Honestly LPVO's are not the most durable optics on the planet. No where near an aim point. However a lot of them are durable enough. I recently did a TON of research on LPVO's before buying my Steiner P4xi. I have a Primary arms 1-8, as well. I shoot a match monthly and prefer the reticle from the Steiner, but the eye box and build quality are a little higher on the foreign made primary arms. The Vortex optic is much more durable and has the best eye box compared to the steiner, and Vortex has the best customer service. But that might not matter in the end of the world?
To answer you question of a top list:
Steiner P4xi and T5i
Vortex PST or maybe a used Razor gen 2
Sig Tango 4 or tango 6.
Primary Arms is always competitive at whatever price point they are in
Straight Shooter
04-05-20, 02:57
Go here in this forum section & read the reviews on the Steiner Pxi 1x4, well within budget it ought to do.
Furbyballer
04-05-20, 13:41
The only 2 I would recommend in that budget is a used NF NXS 1-4 or a used Vortex Razor 1-6.
How about a Trijicon 1-4 Accupoint (not Accupower)?
Andy
ExplorinInTheWoods
04-08-20, 15:59
1-4 Accupoint is one of my favorite optics. I have two. I like the 1-6 Accupoint as well. The 1-8 accupower can be found for under $1000 if you get one get red illumination, they’re daylight bright. Check out opticsplanet/Dvor for good pricing. If you get an Accupoint get a triangle or for either 1-4 or 1-6. The mil dot is also nice. The mil dots are bolder than the moa dots. The steiner 1-4 is a good little optic too. The 1.5-4 Leupold Mark AR is good glass and reticle.
My Steiner P4Xi is on my favorite AR and I love it, but Like the Accupower I don’t consider them duty grade. Desperate times I’ll switch to the 1-4 Accupoint. For about $900 you can get a new one and a Bobro QD mount.
Another vote for a used Razor. There are lots of guys trying to unload them right now to fund the new 1-10; great deals to be had.
Does it have to be an LPVO? Red dot (Aimpoint/Eotech) and a G33 as an option.
Eotech + 5x magnifier?
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monty_d_33
04-09-20, 17:20
Steiner
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everready73
04-10-20, 10:13
Burris XTR 2 are built like a tank. There have been really good sales on them lately as well. Check out Natchez
Eotech + 5x magnifier?
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That is an option I’ve been thinking about.
I picked up a Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 with the Raptor reticle. I wouldn’t have any hesitation about using it on a duty rifle.
That is an option I’ve been thinking about.
I would very seriously consider an EOtech or Aimpoints plus a magnifier for a defensive/shtf rifle.
You are probably not going to engage at the distance where the reticule would matter. And at close range I like an EOtech, or any other red dot over an LPVO.
No eye box, less parallax, it's far easier to shoot from unconventional positions.
Plus if budget is a problem, you could buy the sight now, and magnifier later.
I would also add you can remove the magnifier to save weight.
That said, I like LPVOs too, and wouldn't have a problem with any mentioned so far.
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Also take a look at the Trijicon credo. It’s looks promising. Depends on SFP or FFP. Range from $800 to $1k
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-23-20, 04:54
That is an option I’ve been thinking about.
I own a Razor 1-6, and an Eotech EXPS3/G33 Magnifier combo. The magnifier sits on my patrol rifle behind a T2, the Razor on a gun at home. I find, as a city cop, the 3x Magnifier helps tremendously with barricaded suspects or high risk stops, but moves out of the way quickly for a very good close range optic, which is what I need out of my rifle 9 times out of 10. Were I finding myself in longer engagement distances, an LPVO would be great, but the truth is that I need a red dot far more than I need high magnification.
I went through the same thing recently and settled on the Vortex Viper PST GenII 1-6. It's durable for a patrol rifle or HD rifle, it has a very forgiving eye box like the Razor as well as daylight bright dot. It can be found new for 600-800 bucks and that leaves money for a mount of your choice.
Vudu 1-8 can be had for $875 new. Leaves just enough for a mount.
I’m very pleased with the new Trijicon Credo 1-6x. It’s well within your budget, and you’d have enough left over for a good mount.
ExplorinInTheWoods
04-27-20, 22:16
The word on the credo 1-6 is to get the SFP plain since they are confirmed daylight bright. The green FFP apparently is lacking but thatÂ’s not surprising. For whatever reason green FFP doesnÂ’t work that well, my buddy tried to have the Leupold custom shop do a mk6 in green but they said they canÂ’t get it bright enough and the accupower 1-8 wasnÂ’t bright but the red one is.
I have the Credo 1-6 SFP Red segmented circle. It is definitely daylight bright on setting 10. It won’t blow you away like an Aimpoint, but really no LPVO is that bright. The reticle is well designed, and you really don’t need illumination during the day. You can bracket close targets with the segmented circle, but still have the fine center dot and crosshair for small targets/further shots. I can’t comment on the FFP version- but I haven’t used a FFP LPVO that wasn’t dependent on illumination to be able to use it on 1x. With such short battery life on these types of scopes- I don’t like being dependent on illumination to use it. I think anything 6x and below should be a SFP.
I have the Credo 1-6 SFP Red segmented circle. It is definitely daylight bright on setting 10. It won’t blow you away like an Aimpoint, but really no LPVO is that bright.
You obviously have never seen a Razor 1-6 or an NX8 1-8 then.
Because they are BRIGHT.
I’m very pleased with the new Trijicon Credo 1-6x. It’s well within your budget, and you’d have enough left over for a good mount.
I would like to see someone review these new Trijicon offerings, but it's like a black hole when searching online for them.
I had an original Accupower 1-4x24, ran it in a Carbine class without much drama but eventually went to a PST 1-6x. The PST line isn't as bright as the Razor or the NX8, but on 10 its daylight bright. The original Accupowers (in both red and green) were visible at times during the day, but not what one would call daylight bright in common terms. I loved the Trijicon glass but at that price point the PST 1-6x is still hard to beat, especially when you can get them for $525 from DSG Arms with a throw lever.
You obviously have never seen a Razor 1-6 or an NX8 1-8 then.
Because they are BRIGHT.
Yeah I’ve seen both. Sorry no one will give you what you want, or make up your mind for you. You could spend your own money like I did and find out for yourself. Like I said, I like mine and will continue to use it. There are thousands of opinions on optics, so what one person likes, someone else doesn’t. I don’t tend to base my decisions on what somebody says on the internet.
Presscheck consulting has some videos on YouTube for LVPO v dot+ magnifier. They are also linked in the stickied “the one gun solution” thread.
PrivateCitizen
05-05-20, 11:58
@msstate56
Do you own or have recently used a P4Xi or Vortex Razor/PST 1-6?
If so could you qualify in terms of 10/10, 9/10, etc the peak brightness of the Credo?
I currently can’t do a direct comparison between those. As has been mentioned- the Credo will not be as bright as the Razor. It’s still plenty visible on setting 10 in Mississippi sunlight. One thing that keeps getting glossed over is reticle design. With the Razor and Steiner- you have a super bright center dot, but thin crosshairs outside of that. If the illumination goes down, you’re left with a thin, less than desirable crosshair. However, on the segmented circle of the Credo- you have a big bold segmented circle that is easy to find, even without illumination. I’ve been taking the Credo on my walks through the woods lately and I don’t need the illumination turned on to easily acquire the reticle. If the segmented circle went “Aimpoint bright” as some people demand, it would wash out the center of the reticle and whatever target you’re looking at. I find I prefer the segmented circle to bracket close targets- like you would with an EOTech reticle- then use the fine center for more precise aiming when needed. So for the BDC works out to 300 (when using 55 gr Fed on a 16”).
Nevermind. I can’t get pictures to work right.
Nevermind. I can’t get pictures to work right.
That looks great. Basically a 1-6 version of the Accupower 1-4. I had one that I used for a couple seasons of 3gun and loved it. Very fast, huge eye box. I just went back to a TA11 ACOG from an NX8, but I considered the 1-6 Credo and think it might be my second pick to the ACOG.
I like it more and more every time I take it out. I used it yesterday to shoot the heads off of two small cottonmouths near my cabin. You’re looking at a target the size of a dime ��
I guess some people just need a burn your retina out at high noon on a sunny day, dot. Personally, I would rather have a LPV where the illuminated dot was a *little* less bright, than a LPV scope with a tight eye box on 1X and a virtually unusable one on it’s top magnification.
So far in my “roaming the woods” I’ve yet to need to turn the illumination on to make a shot. I like how useable the reticle is w/o illumination. I could take the battery out, and still have a perfectly useful scope. It’s bright enough that I can see the illumination on setting 10 in bright MS sunshine. For the ones that need the dot to “stand out against a snowshoe hare at high noon in a snowstorm” I say the black bold reticle will work just fine. When I am using the illumination on the range, I like that the center (0.5 MOA dot) is not crazy bright. The bold segmented circle helps bracket the target, and if I need a fine aiming point- then I have the center dot. I get that that’s not what some people want. Some want basically a “magnified Aimpoint” which is fine if that’s their preference. That’s just not what I want in this particular scope- which is a good general purpose optic. For CQB range I’d still rather have a red dot, for longer range- a higher power scope and a bigger cartridge, but for 50-300 yards? I’m really digging the 1-6 Credo.
I guess some people just need a burn your retina out at high noon on a sunny day, dot. Personally, I would rather have a LPV where the illuminated dot was a *little* less bright, than a LPV scope with a tight eye box on 1X and a virtually unusable one on it’s top magnification.
Which optic are you referring to?
than a LPV scope with a tight eye box on 1X and a virtually unusable one on it’s top magnification.
Funny how lazy people have become, or maybe how bad their technique is I guess.
I would guess he's referring to the NX-8 1-8x, which chirrins raised on the Razor 1-6 take issue with, because they were taught as long as your head is somewhere behind the optic you should get your full FOV without trying. :p
Honestly, if anyone can't use an NX-8 at 8x, they should quit the game. Period, Dot. Just quit.
Just saw the Sig Tango 6T in person. It’s pretty nice scope. Clear glass, great illumination, I was in door but appears to be daylight bright, and it comes with NV setting. I like the reticle...sort of like the Leupold CMRW. At 1x the image is “flat”
Downside it’s little on the heavier side...probably 20-22 ozs. Street price it’s about $1300...when it’s on sale, you can probably get it close to 1k. For a FFP, hard to best that price.
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Funny how lazy people have become, or maybe how bad their technique is I guess.
I would guess he's referring to the NX-8 1-8x, which chirrins raised on the Razor 1-6 take issue with, because they were taught as long as your head is somewhere behind the optic you should get your full FOV without trying. :p
Honestly, if anyone can't use an NX-8 at 8x, they should quit the game. Period, Dot. Just quit.
This ^^^^^ 100%. I’m not saying that everyone needs to love the NX-8 but come on. I don’t have any problems using the NX-8 strong side or support side from a variety of positions throughout the magnification range. It’s not a SFP (which have their advantages and I really like the P4Xi) but for it’s size and weight, the NX-8 offers a lot of capability.
That looks great. Basically a 1-6 version of the Accupower 1-4. I had one that I used for a couple seasons of 3gun and loved it. Very fast, huge eye box. I just went back to a TA11 ACOG from an NX8, but I considered the 1-6 Credo and think it might be my second pick to the ACOG.
Interesting info here. Because I am looking at the Credo 1-6 as a possible replacement for the ACOG 3.5-35 LCD. I keep thinking the ACOG is perfect for my needs which is DMR function out to maybe 600 yds max if needed. The ACOG can do that and the battery life is way better than the Credo. I am always amazed at the clarity and resolution of the ACOG. I would like to know if there is any advantage to the Credo as far as seeing long distance targets.
Chiming in to throw in an additional option, SWFA SS HD 1-6. However, it may not be superior to razor or nightforce overall but I would want to compare glass quality between them. I don't expect average LPVO use to require much turrent dailing so the importance of turrent is less for LPVO, I would put more weight on reticle and glass quality than turrent for LPVO. From researching I found that nightforce NXS glass is disappointing grey low contrast looking compared to razor, probably because nightforce used majority of budget to ensure the turrent is best it can be. But I can say the glass on NXS is way more than good enough for duty use. I can't say how SWFA 1-6 compares to razor or nightforce but I can almost bet SWFA would have better glass than NXS but I don't know about razor. Wouldnt it be interesting to see which of those maintain the visibility longest after the sun sets. Myself, the price of $1000 is almost enough for me to purchase multiple LPVO and compare them all then returning all to keep one which I like best. (I know that's a dick move to the businesses taking the returns.) I wouldn't mount them without ensuring they would get zero marking on the body like wrapping strip of cotton from old shirt so the ring never touches the body and only barely tightening it down. Then look through them all during the same time of the same day in noon and low light. Have a score sheet ready to score their glass(multiple aspects to this like contrast, clarity, brightness, etc), turrent, illuminate, reticle, etc.) Write down your observation of how each scope compares to each other and arrive at your final decision. I would be interested in hearing about your observation. You could also ask each brand for a loaner example-this sound like something forum top member should do. Other forum members could even loan our credit card so the massives charges of many scopes wouldn't tie up the reviewer's finances. I'll stop babbling now.
Grendelshooter
05-27-20, 16:58
Vudu 1-8 can be had for $875 new. Leaves just enough for a mount.
Post a link, that sounds too good to be true. Street price looks like $1299.
everready73
05-28-20, 09:25
Post a link, that sounds too good to be true. Street price looks like $1299.
If you are signed in at Botach it is $899. Yea i know they dont have the best rep, but you asked for a link.. I have ordered form them without issue, but def some not so great feedback on them as a vendor FYI
https://botach.com/eotech-vudu-1-8x24-sfp-riflescopes/
I remember seeing them around the same price when they pop up on Dvor also.
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Grendelshooter
05-28-20, 21:54
If you are signed in at Botach it is $899. Yea i know they dont have the best rep, but you asked for a link.. I have ordered form them without issue, but def some not so great feedback on them as a vendor FYI
https://botach.com/eotech-vudu-1-8x24-sfp-riflescopes/
For that much of a discount...I may take a chance lol
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