View Full Version : AR-15 Trigger....Single Stage or Two Stage
I am in the process of building a mid-priced accuracy build. I am now to the point of deciding on a trigger. I know my first decision is whether to go with a single stage or a two stage trigger and that is what I can't make my mind up about. I want to use the rifle to shoot targets between one hundred and three hundred yards or so (limit of my local shooting range). But I also want to be able to go out and plink with it also from time to time. I would say that my ultimate use would be 50% target shooting and 50% plinking. With this in mind, should I lean toward a single stage or a two stage trigger? If I went with a single stage trigger with a three to three and a half pound trigger pull (Timney Impact, Elf ES, Rise 434, etc.), how much loss of potential accuracy will I loose over a similar style and model two stage trigger. I can get any of these single stage triggers for between $110 and $135 while a comparable two stage trigger will run about $170 to $200 (except for the LaRue MBT-2S for $80 and it has a fantastic reputation of being a good trigger). Given these parameters, should I lean toward the single stage or two stage trigger? Second, does anyone has a recommendation of a single stage trigger under $150 and/or a two stage trigger under $200? The single stage triggers I have in mind are: Timney Impact, Elf ES, Rise 434, and Velocity 3lbs. The two stage triggers I have in mind are: LaRue MBT-2S, Timney AR Targa, Geissele, Rock River Arms National Match. I quess to sum everything up, I realize that the two stage trigger is more aimed at being a precise shooting trigger than the single stage, but I have never had a gun with a two stage trigger. How much difference is this precision between the single and two stage triggers?
I’d look hard at a Geissele ssa/e. They’re pretty great for what you’re describing. Single vs two stage is mostly a personal preference thing, either is good.
You are asking the wrong question, the correct question is Geissele or LaRue.
You are asking the wrong question, the correct question is Geissele or LaRue.
This is mostly the correct answer in a question, particularly if looking at two stage.
If you just want to have a single stage, I have found the Hiperfire EDT2 Heavy Gunner to have a wonderful feel for dry fire (put it in a LaRue trigger chassis to smooth it out and get some trigger pull repetitions). Not sure it’s perfect for precision. I also have a little time behind a LaRue MBT-1S, but not enough to decide if I like it as much as the Heavy Gunner or relative to the outstanding LaRue and Geissele two stage options; mostly subjective, but I shot the MBT-1S offhand pretty well.
Here you go:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/
You are gonna like the way it shoots. I prefer it over the single stage. But, here is the single stage:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-1s-trigger/
Eighty bucks for either of these triggers is a GREAT deal.
What type of underwear should you wear? Boxers? Briefs? Commando? Depends. Trigger type is what you prefer. For a crisp trigger with a very short break, I prefer a two stage. The standard AR trigger is a single stage with a long sear engagement. The long sear engagement is for safety. It prevents the sear from bouncing from rough handling, causing the weapon to fire. Shortening the sear engagement for a crisp break with minimal creep removes that level of safety. Some single stages with shortened sear engagements use a "half cock" notch to catch the hammer if it drops without the trigger being pulled.
Two stage triggers keep the long sear engagement but the first part of the travel is at a lower pull weight. Right before the break, pull weight increases, then breaks cleanly. The hammer of the Geissele trigger contacts the disconnect. The pressure of the disconnect spring gives the pull its final weight.
Try different triggers and get what you like best. Some like a two stage. Some don't. It's all a matter of what underwear you find the most comfortable.
I run G-SSA in all my guns. Nothing wrong with the E version, I just am used to the SSA so that's what I go with. Its in all my AR's except one that has a variant of the E version and I set that trigger off before I mean too because muscle memory. I have one Larue, but I'm a die hard G guy.
PB
Brownells has their Geissele G2S-E two stage and GRF single stage triggers before this Covid-19 buying frenzy yiu could find them in the $120 range.
I have the G2S-E on my DMR and it works well for longer range precision shooting and does well for closer rapid fire engagements.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/ar-15-enhanced-triggers-prod67223.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=GEISSELE%2bAUTOMATICS%2bLLC
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I love my Geissele SSA. I would read up on their whole line of triggers, take your time for research. Different retailers run sales on various versions. I got mine directly from Geissele during a black Friday sale for around $160.00. I've seen some pretty good sales all through the year though at different online sites, you just have to have patience and keep checking. As far as one stage or two stage. I love my two stage but I can be just as happy with a single stage. Honestly, on at least my rifles, I never really had any complaints about my milspec triggers.
Here you go:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/
You are gonna like the way it shoots. I prefer it over the single stage. But, here is the single stage:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-1s-trigger/
Eighty bucks for either of these triggers is a GREAT deal.
^^This (Larue) hands down^^
titsonritz
04-10-20, 00:53
Here you go:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/
You are gonna like the way it shoots. I prefer it over the single stage. But, here is the single stage:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-1s-trigger/
Eighty bucks for either of these triggers is a GREAT deal.
Dollar for dollar it pretty hard to beat these triggers, but I do love my Geissele SSA/SSA-E triggers.
This may help, or may just help you fall asleep: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220849-Dry-fire-observations-comparison&p=2813540#post2813540
What have you been using up to now?
I'm a fan of the LaRue triggers. I like two stage triggers mostly because they tend to replicate the trigger pull on my Glocks. It's not exact, but I found myself "prepping" the trigger on my AR's with 4# single stages and getting early shots in stressful training. Going to a 2 stage eliminates that issue for me. Your mileage may vary.
ive always used single stage, i guess i should try a 2 stage at some point
grizzlyblake
04-11-20, 08:11
I don't love the Larue MBT 2S. The pull is great but the reset is weird. Difficult to explain, but it's like I have to release further forward than the break point to get the trigger to reset, and then pull through the first stage again to hit the second stage wall. The craftsmanship on the Larue is fantastic and it's a beautiful piece.
I had a Sionics two stage (1005 Tactical) and it had a great short reset right at the second stage wall so very short pull and no unnecessary travel. I preferred the feel of it to the Larue, but ultimately the cheap Nickel Boron coating makes it a no go for me.
I've found that on scoped "precision" guns I like a two stage, but on a little red dotted carbine I like a nicely worn in milspec trigger.
jethroUSMC
04-11-20, 08:54
Full disclosure: I prefer 2 stage triggers in all rifles. Are they necessary? No, many people do fine with single stage triggers.
With that out of the way, for an accuracy build I would choose a 2 stage trigger for more control, and knowing when it's going to break consistently.
The old sayings of "hold your breath" or "the trigger break should surprise you" is hogwash and an anathema to accuracy and precision. You want the trigger to break during natural respiratory pause between inhaling and exhaling, and you want to know exactly when it is going to break, so you can pass on the shot until the next respiratory cycle comes around. Holding your breath depletes your brain and muscles of oxygen, the first two things that happen is concentration and vision begin to be impacted.
Split the difference.
https://triggertech.com/collections/firearms/products/copy-of-competitive-ar-primary-trigger
20% off through this weekend.
OP, you should take a look at Hiperfire Triggers as well. I have a single stage hiperfire trigger in a lower and it is fantastic. It came with 3 different different sets of springs ranging in trigger pull weight from 2.5 - 3.5 lbs. I went with the intermediate or 3 lb weight. Fantastic and in my opinion, as accurate as my two stage Geiselle.
I got my Hiperfire for about $125 when on sale. They can be spendy, but excellent.
This is the one that I have.
https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Hiperfire-AR15-Hipertouch-Elite-Trigger-p/hf-hpte.htm
https://www.hiperfire.com/triggers/pdi-family/
hotrodder636
04-12-20, 12:08
I have SSA-E triggers in my ARs that I have scopes on(with the exception of my KAC, it has a KAC 2 stage). My SBRs have BCM single stages. I will try the LaRue if I put another lower together.
I own a SD-C and a SSA. While I love them both, I will not spend over twice as much on them after buying a Larue MBT.
I own a SD-C and a SSA. While I love them both, I will not spend over twice as much on them after buying a Larue MBT.
Geisseles have absolutely nothing over the LaRue. Even if they were priced identically, I'd buy LaRue.
Next 2 stage I buy for a Recce build I've got going will be a Wilson. This thread convinced me https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220849-Dry-fire-observations-comparison&p=2813540#post2813540
What type of underwear should you wear? Boxers? Briefs? Commando? Depends. Trigger type is what you prefer. For a crisp trigger with a very short break, I prefer a two stage. The standard AR trigger is a single stage with a long sear engagement. The long sear engagement is for safety. It prevents the sear from bouncing from rough handling, causing the weapon to fire. Shortening the sear engagement for a crisp break with minimal creep removes that level of safety. Some single stages with shortened sear engagements use a "half cock" notch to catch the hammer if it drops without the trigger being pulled.
Two stage triggers keep the long sear engagement but the first part of the travel is at a lower pull weight. Right before the break, pull weight increases, then breaks cleanly. The hammer of the Geissele trigger contacts the disconnect. The pressure of the disconnect spring gives the pull its final weight.
Try different triggers and get what you like best. Some like a two stage. Some don't. It's all a matter of what underwear you find the most comfortable.
About to say the same thing, but you beat me to it.
No love for KAC 2-stage ..? :meeting:
Colt Carson
04-12-20, 18:20
Concerning rifles... I prefer a single stage trigger on a combat weapon I might shoot on the move. Two stage would be acceptable on a rifle I would shoot primarily from a rest.
No love for KAC 2-stage ..? :meeting:
I like the KAC 2 stage. It feels like a good Garand or M14 trigger which reset just after the second stage. The G trigger resets all the way back to the beginning of the first stage. However, the KAC doesn't break as clean as a G trigger and retails for more money. Mine came with a Colt lower I bought and for the money, th4 trigger was almost free.
js8588, you might wanna re-think that Wilson TTU. A popped primer getting down in the works will be a major PITA to dig out.
Concerning rifles... I prefer a single stage trigger on a combat weapon I might shoot on the move. Two stage would be acceptable on a rifle I would shoot primarily from a rest.
Why wouldn't you use a two stage on a combat rifle? They used two stage triggers on '03s, 03-A3s, Mausers, SMLEs, Garands, M-14s and other infantry rifles. The two stage was designed for hard combat use
js8588, you might wanna re-think that Wilson TTU. A popped primer getting down in the works will be a major PITA to dig out.
Could get a popped primer stuck in my gas key too. I still don't keep an extra BCG in my stock.
If I'm ever operating operationally (something horrible has happened at that point. I'm a suburban mattress store manager) & my rifle goes down, I'll switch over to my sidearm. If I survive long enough, I'll clean out my fcg at my leisure.
Could get a popped primer stuck in my gas key too. I still don't keep an extra BCG in my stock.
If I'm ever operating operationally (something horrible has happened at that point. I'm a suburban mattress store manager) & my rifle goes down, I'll switch over to my sidearm. If I survive long enough, I'll clean out my fcg at my leisure.
This made me chuckle.
Could get a popped primer stuck in my gas key too. I still don't keep an extra BCG in my stock.
If I'm ever operating operationally (something horrible has happened at that point. I'm a suburban mattress store manager) & my rifle goes down, I'll switch over to my sidearm. If I survive long enough, I'll clean out my fcg at my leisure.
I also LOL'd
What type of underwear should you wear? Boxers? Briefs? Commando? Depends. Trigger type is what you prefer. For a crisp trigger with a very short break, I prefer a two stage. The standard AR trigger is a single stage with a long sear engagement. The long sear engagement is for safety. It prevents the sear from bouncing from rough handling, causing the weapon to fire. Shortening the sear engagement for a crisp break with minimal creep removes that level of safety. Some single stages with shortened sear engagements use a "half cock" notch to catch the hammer if it drops without the trigger being pulled.
Two stage triggers keep the long sear engagement but the first part of the travel is at a lower pull weight. Right before the break, pull weight increases, then breaks cleanly. The hammer of the Geissele trigger contacts the disconnect. The pressure of the disconnect spring gives the pull its final weight.
Try different triggers and get what you like best. Some like a two stage. Some don't. It's all a matter of what underwear you find the most comfortable.
Great explanation.
Thank you.
No love for KAC 2-stage ..? :meeting:
I run G SSA's on all my guns, however I didn't change out my KAC 2 stage from my SR15. Feels similar enough to my SSA's that I still love it.
PB
ExplorinInTheWoods
04-14-20, 12:19
If you want a SPR or accuracy type rig go with a 2 stage, the geissele SSA-E is my recommendation. If you want to run it fast for 3gun/ 2gun type stuff I say go for a single stage like a CMC or a timney. The geissele SD3G is a hybrid, it’s a single stage but has a rolling break. The geissele SSP my buddy has is great, he has a gen 1 trigger. I heard the new ones have a bit of movement before hand.
@Pappabear @MistWolf
I appreciate the feedback, thanks much.
@Pappabear @MistWolf
I appreciate the feedback, thanks much.
No Prob, good luck.
goaltendah1
04-14-20, 18:57
Single Stage vs 2 Stage. Honestly I think it all comes down to what your preference is. Obviously as posted above, people all have their different flavors, brands, likes and dislikes. One of the hardest things to convey is the "feel" of a trigger. I always laugh when I watch a video and someone is explaining how awesome a trigger is, or how it feels to them. Unless you actually have used a trigger, its hard to have some sort of frame of reference.
My OPINION is that, if you can, either meet people at the range or if there is some one on the forum that lives close to you, and they have a different trigger, ask them if you can at least try the trigger out via dry fire to see what the pull is like. The only way you are going to understand the difference in any trigger is through testing it out. A lot of good quality triggers cost a little bit of coin. It can be a tough pill to swallow to go out and dump over $200 on a Geissele. Larue isn't as expensive, but what if you don't like it? If you can, find someone close to your location that may have a trigger that you are interested in and see if you can at least dry fire it.
My trigger collection consists of both single and 2 stage triggers. I have some Geissele SSA and SSA-E triggers for my 2 stage. I use the SSA-E's for my "precision" guns, and my SSA's for my go to guns. I also have single stage triggers by BCM, Sionics, and LMT. I used to have a few Colt USGI triggers. The Colt's were my least favorite out of the box. They were gritty on the trigger pull. The BCM's, Sionics, and LMT triggers that I have all pull without any gritty feeling, and have a nice crisp break. So with all of that said, I can't convey how those will feel to you. I could say that you wouldn't be disappointed in any of those triggers, but I don't know how you would feel about those triggers. I do enjoy the 2 stage trigger because its easier to predict when they will break and its much easier to take a precision shot without disturbing point of aim.
Good luck on finding the right trigger. I am probably going to pick up a Larue MBT-2 to give it a whirl and see how good they are.
Be warned - buying your first decent trigger is more expensive than you may think. Sure, a few hundred dollars won't break the bank and a good trigger will give you years of service.
The real expense shows its head after you become accustomed to the relatively light, creep free, predictable trigger pull on one rifle. Before you know it, you will find yourself convinced that a $75 trigger upgrade for a $200 10-22 is not something that would be nice to have - it is an absolute necessity. Lord help you if you own a Ruger M77 - you will be amazed you can even keep a few rounds on a paper target before you buy the Timney or Rifle Basic replacement.
Now that you've been warned - I own and use 2 LaRue 2 stage triggers, a Gisele G2S, a BCM PNT, and a PSA EPT.
The BCM enhanced, polished and plated trigger is very smooth and consistent, but a tad heavy, the PSA enhanced is very good and a bit cheaper. I would expect any of the polished and plated single stage triggers, including the original ALG ACT, the Sionics, etc. to be similar and a good trigger for the cost. The PSA triggers are the least expensive, but may have more trigger-to-trigger variation and potential for spring/pin problems than the others.
I am happy enough with the G2S, but it used a different hammer pin retention system I am not fond of and was twice the price of the LaRue trigger. I will only buy the LaRue trigger or an enhanced/polished/plated trigger for my purposes, I just don't feel the value is there with a $100+ AR trigger.
Andy
I love a single tuned precision trigger that is crisp and breaks clean in a precision rifle or 1911. But went with a two stage geissle in my ar and have been very happy with it. Best choice I could have made.
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Ijs8588, you might wanna re-think that Wilson TTU. A popped primer getting down in the works will be a major PITA to dig out.
So, for posterity, I got the TTU in today. I played around with it a bit before installing. The whole thing is held together with 2 bushings. 1 for the trigger & 1 for the hammer. It's easy to pop apart & disassemble, then reassemble. I did it without issue. If you're concerned about cleaning it out due to debris like a popped primer, don't be.
It has a very short first stage that I found a bit spongy, an ultra crisp break, and an excellent reset. I'm sure that first stage will smooth out with use.
Just wanted to follow up on this.
Thanks for the update. Which model of TTU did you go with?
Thanks for the update. Which model of TTU did you go with?
TTU-M2 4-ish pound 2 stage.
So, for posterity, I got the TTU in today. I played around with it a bit before installing. The whole thing is held together with 2 bushings. 1 for the trigger & 1 for the hammer. It's easy to pop apart & disassemble, then reassemble. I did it without issue. If you're concerned about cleaning it out due to debris like a popped primer, don't be.
It has a very short first stage that I found a bit spongy, an ultra crisp break, and an excellent reset. I'm sure that first stage will smooth out with use.
Just wanted to follow up on this.
Guess it's too late to suggest a JP adjustable then. LOL!
Pull weight, engagement, over travel, disconector timing... Everything is adjustable! :)
https://i.imgur.com/3x0OP9C.jpg
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