View Full Version : When God Abandons a Nation - WARNING CHRISTIAN MESSAGE BELOW!
I am blessed to be able to continue to work during this crisis because my employer is considered an essential business, and I am further blessed in that I can listen to pretty much whatever I want to while I'm working.
Today, I happened to listen to the message below and it really opened my eyes to the immoral state that our country is in and our lack of a relationship with God. Facts that are made even more evident by events like we are experiencing now.
https://youtu.be/Cz8AA_Oa0EU
listen to him all the time :)
one of the greatest biblical apologist of our time :)
:rolleyes: fairy tales don’t effect real life
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-11-20, 02:12
Volcanoes and airplanes flying into buildings as God's wrath- and I'm out.
So just curious, what did the European jews do wrong in the 1930s and 1940s where apparently god abandoned them wholesale. Men, women, children...good people, bad people, whatever...babies too.
Cause they seemed like a pretty devout group to me. Also this really doesn't help right now. I know I'm not a regular church going guy, but I always thought religion was something meant to bring people together...to help others if they can and things like that. I'm always disappointed in the lower forms of life who bring just a variation of "god hates fags" to explain any recent hardship.
This is a bigger load of horseshit than the pope suggesting it's a result of global warming and nature defending itself from the "bad humans" and all that crap.
If you want to know God as a God who is swift to deliver harsh punishment and judgment on the world and a God who is like a strict step father, then I would turn to John Macarthur. However if you want to know God as a loving father who is slow to anger, full of grace and who loves his children, I would turn to other pastors like Tony Evans. Why "pastors" like Joel Osteen are so popular even though he is completely off base theologically speaking is because he delivers a message of hope that lifts peoples spirit and a feeling that God is approachable.
Nothing against John Macarthur, he has some really great sermons, but I have noticed that he is slightly off center on some topics, mostly because he claims every evangelist other than him is worldly and moved either politicly or motivated by money and while he himself is a calvinist and cessationist apologetic, his doctrine is confusing. MacArthur teaches that if you have certain sins in your life, then you will not go to Heaven, even if you are a believer in Jesus. He also makes many non biblical statements about the relationship between God and man and Jesus and man. He makes statements like "true believers cannot commit sin because they were never believers", and believes in self righteousness and that in order to be saved there are 7 things required for salvation (all are unbiblical),and none of which are mentioned in Peters or Paul's Gospel .
I don't know, he has some powerful messages but you just have to be careful and let the Spirit of the Lord guide you through it.
But, going back to the topic, Im assuming you are referring to the USA as the "nation" in your subject. God has also blessed this nation beyond any other nation in the world. And yet while we have had our moments of sorrow and misery, God has always been faithful and full of grace during those times. He allowed our nation to put a man on the moon during one of our darkest times. We initiated the Marshal Plan when we were almost flat broke. Louisiana Purchase when we were just about flat broke. 9/11 motivated the US to take a bigger role Globally creating more allies and partner nations. Winning a war against Great Britain with militias and farmers. And many other notable hallmarks. God is very much still with us! He is with us during our moments of triumph and he is still with us during our moments of peril.
So just curious, what did the European jews do wrong in the 1930s and 1940s where apparently god abandoned them wholesale. Men, women, children...good people, bad people, whatever...babies too.
Cause they seemed like a pretty devout group to me. Also this really doesn't help right now. I know I'm not a regular church going guy, but I always thought religion was something meant to bring people together...to help others if they can and things like that. I'm always disappointed in the lower forms of life who bring just a variation of "god hates fags" to explain any recent hardship.
This is a bigger load of horseshit than the pope suggesting it's a result of global warming and nature defending itself from the "bad humans" and all that crap.
The holocaust was horrible, but in the end, the Jews returned to there promised land. The old testament concerning the Jews is full of stories of hardships before God acted. They were slaves in the land of Egypt for 450 years while God was silent before he got Moses to lead them out of Egypt. Yes they wondered around the wilderness for 40 years but God was with them the whole time, providing for there needs and gave them the Mosaic Law to live by. Yes when they rebelled against God, God held back his blessings which caused them to return to God and worship Him. They lost their land to Babylon/Assyrians but later got it back after years of captivity and they later lost it to the Romans. They got if back in 1947 and the US has supported them since.
Since the fall of man, Adam and Eve, God has pointed towards Jesus! "Abraham being tested by sacrificing his only son", "Israelites wiping the blood of the lamb on there doors (Passover offering) during the 10th plague -the killing of all first born". Gods people longed for the day of Jesus the Messiah but they did not except him. You want eternal life, go to Jesus. You want a relationship with God, go to Jesus. Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life, No one goes to the father without going through Jesus.
Having said all that, Jesus never promised us an easy life or a life without worry or suffering. He did promise to be there with us during those times. But Jesus really never spoke much of "this life", instead he talked mostly about his "Kingdom" and how to inherit eternal life. That is what he is mostly concerned with. That and our relationship with His father, GOD.
He makes statements like "true believers cannot commit sin because they were never believers", and believes in self righteousness and that in order to be saved there are 7 things required for salvation (all are unbiblical),and none of which are mentioned in Peters or Paul's Gospel .
joel osteen is a false prophet and charlatan big time his followers are deceived big time
as to your statement please show me a link to where he says this ? am curious
was it this ? where he lays out 7 things
Seven conditions that do not prove or disprove genuine saving faith.
https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA145/what-kind-of-things-do-and-do-not-prove-the-genuineness-of-saving-faith
Here is a list of seven conditions that do not prove or disprove the genuineness of saving faith. One can be a Christian and possess these things or one may not be a Christian at all and still possess them. While they don't prove or disprove one's faith, they're important to know and understand so you will not be deceived.
Churches today are filled with people who hold to a faith that does not save. James referred to this as a "dead faith"-meaning a mere empty profession (James 2:17, 20, 26). Paul wrote to the people in the church at Corinth to test or examine themselves to see if they were truly in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). As important as it was in Paul's day, how much more important it is for people in our churches today to put their faith to the test and to make sure they have not been deceived.
joel osteen is a false prophet and charlatan big time his followers are deceived big time
you are 100% correct! I do think Joel has some understanding of the word of God, but he doesn't understand the full context. Either way, his teachings are biblical, but not in a biblical context way. What I mean by that is that he will show you bible versus that add meaning to what he is saying but the bible versus mean something totally different. Similar to Robert Tilton who used bible versus out of context to get his followers to send him money in exchange for God to answer their prayers. Joel Osteen's followers are either desperate for answered prayers or more interested in Hallmark gospel (gospel that sounds good ) like the faith you mentioned below.
as to your statement please show me a link to where he says this ? am curious
was it this ? where he lays out 7 things
Seven conditions that do not prove or disprove genuine saving faith.
https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA145/what-kind-of-things-do-and-do-not-prove-the-genuineness-of-saving-faith
Here is a list of seven conditions that do not prove or disprove the genuineness of saving faith. One can be a Christian and possess these things or one may not be a Christian at all and still possess them. While they don't prove or disprove one's faith, they're important to know and understand so you will not be deceived.
Churches today are filled with people who hold to a faith that does not save. James referred to this as a "dead faith"-meaning a mere empty profession (James 2:17, 20, 26). Paul wrote to the people in the church at Corinth to test or examine themselves to see if they were truly in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). As important as it was in Paul's day, how much more important it is for people in our churches today to put their faith to the test and to make sure they have not been deceived.
You can do a quick google search and find his beliefs on salvation and the requirements other than faith alone. The link you provided is not what I was referring to. Im not saying John is a false prophet or even a bad pastor, im simply saying that there are a few areas of his doctrine that are slightly off center, not completely off base- and there is a big difference.
Salvation is something to hard to understand for a lot of people, especially because its free and offered to everyone and given to those who simply believe that Jesus death was sufficient payment for our sins before God the father. God excepted his sons death as payment for our sins instead of us having to die for them. We live in a world where we get promotions, bonuses, recognition and raises for works and a lot of people simply cannot believe that eternal life is free without some other kind of requirements like full repentance, or turning completely away from sin, denial of self, full submission to Christ etc. ( if that was the case, then Jesus's death would not be sufficient alone) Those are some of the things John Macarthur believes and has suggested as a requirement for salvation. Now, once we have excepted Jesus, we are a new creation and we should want to be Christlike. But understand that we simply cannot do it ourselves and that's why Jesus in so important- because He is the way, not us!
BoringGuy45
04-11-20, 08:22
We live in a fallen world. God does not promise us success and prosperity for following him. The rewards for obedience will be given in the age to come. As for now, even Solomon recognized that the rain fell on both the righteous and the wicked. As SteyrAUG said, what were the Jews doing in the 30s and 40s that God punished them with genocide? The idea that times of turmoil are caused by an angry, but silent God are of ancient days. God is not like a psycho woman; that is, he doesn't inflict punishment, and when people cry out and ask why, he says "If you don't know, then I'm not going to tell you." If you look at the Bible, in every punishment God doled out, he told the kings and/or prophets exactly why he was doing it.
We don't know why things happen. I don't even go so far as to say that everything is part of "God's plan". To me, that's a false comfort. The reason for pain is that this is a fallen, sinful world.
BuzzinSATX
04-11-20, 08:22
Elephant,
Thank you for your excellent posts on this thread. You express the way I’ve come to believe in the Lord and His Son perfectly.
Elephant,
Thank you for your excellent posts on this thread. You express the way I’ve come to believe in the Lord and His Son perfectly.
I am not deeply religious, but I agree Elephant's posts are excellent.
For what it is worth, I disagree with the concept God can abandon a nation. You reap what you sow and it is our nation that has abandoned God.
Andy
This is what happens when irrelevant old men try and shoehorn an irrelevant belief system into incredibly complex times and shake their fists in frustration when it not only doesn't fit, but society increasingly makes it obvious that their opinion isn't welcome or wanted.
Life's a Hillary
04-11-20, 09:54
So God is punishing the immoral United States but just sits idly by when North Korea is running literal concentration camps and executing members of its own populace in absolutely horrific ways and sits idly by when there are actual slave trades going on in Africa? But letting gay people get married is worthy of the wrath of God? The twisted logic people have to work themselves into is astounding.
Instead of sending cryptic messages for some old man to interpret for us via a virus that is completely natural why doesn’t he just come on down to earth and tell us? I guess that would be too easy.
I have my own beliefs and understanding as to what is a Supreme Being in the universe. Every religion has pre-packaged God and tried selling it to the masses - each one says:
"We have the True God over here...come join us".
Even Climate Change has become a religion. Just like the Roman Catholic Church was selling indulgences in 1550 to buy your dead relative out of Hell, the High Priests of Climate Change sell carbon credits or offsets to mitigate your evil carbon footprint - salvation with handing over cash.
I have my doubts about TV Preachers. When I was a student at the University of Arizona, and Army Reservist, I made extra income with a paid internship at a local NBC affiliate. I worked with a guy who had been a cameraman previously for a nationwide religious program. He gave me a line which I remember to this day:
"There's a lot of money to be made in non-profit Christian broadcasting"
:rolleyes: fairy tales don’t effect real life
Romans 1:19-20 19)because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20)For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Volcanoes and airplanes flying into buildings as God's wrath- and I'm out.
So do you expect God's wrath to be unicorns and puppy dogs?
So just curious, what did the European jews do wrong in the 1930s and 1940s where apparently god abandoned them wholesale. Men, women, children...good people, bad people, whatever...babies too.
Cause they seemed like a pretty devout group to me.
“Sometimes God allows what He hates in order to accomplish what He loves." As tragic and evil as the Holocaust was, how else was God going to unite and motivate the Jews to reclaim the Promised Land?
The times we live in now are the best humans have ever seen. We have the best of everything, and the least war, suffering and death. Those things still exist, of course, but nowhere near the concentration they have in the past. We have the best education, the best communication, the best medicine. Food is the most plentiful and cheapest to produce it's ever been. We live the longest and have the most luxury of any time in earth's history. We hate less, we're less afraid of people who don't look like us, and we accept that people can be different without being a threat.
Yet these foolish old men stand behind pulpits and glower down and scream that the end is near and that god has abandoned us because of the sin they see everywhere when what they really mean is, the world has moved on and left them behind.
They scream about how we need to fear again, how we need to retreat from the progress we've made and collapse back into superstition, and that our accomplishments aren't the prizes we think, just because they make us less reliant on old foolish stories. In reality society is improving. Our lives grow better and longer. The only difference is, and what drives these irrelevant old codgers crazy is that every day we have less and less need of a god. We simply understand too much about ourselves and the world to need to huddle around a fire being told scary stories about what's beyond its glow.
Romans 1:19-20 19)because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20)For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
So do you expect God's wrath to be unicorns and puppy dogs?
“Sometimes God allows what He hates in order to accomplish what He loves." As tragic and evil as the Holocaust was, how else was God going to unite and motivate the Jews to reclaim the Promised Land?
So is God a sociopathic control freak or does He just have a really incompetent PR department?
That’s like saying “That teenage runaway being gang raped behind an Arby’s was tragic, but hey, it motivated her to go back home, so all that non-consensual sodomy served the greater good.”
Elephant and BoringGuy45: Thank you!
God has nothing to do with any of this nonsense.........Feel free to believe what you want. I went no.
The holocaust was horrible, but in the end, the Jews returned to there promised land.
Six million didn't. And if that was gods plan for getting jews a homeland, I'm sure many would have preferred to save their children even if it meant they had to live in Jersey.
“Sometimes God allows what He hates in order to accomplish what He loves." As tragic and evil as the Holocaust was, how else was God going to unite and motivate the Jews to reclaim the Promised Land?
Memo, fax, voicemail, telegram, email, executive order.
People keep saying god needs to make evil happen in order to accomplish his goals. Isn't that basically the same excuse the nazis used? Needed a homeland. Had to get rid of the pesky people currently in the designated homeland, even if that means killing innocent women and children. The later generations will thank us even though that didn't exactly prove to be true.
you are 100% correct! I do think Joel has some understanding of the word of God, but he doesn't understand the full context. Either way, his teachings are biblical, but not in a biblical context way. What I mean by that is that he will show you bible versus that add meaning to what he is saying but the bible versus mean something totally different. Similar to Robert Tilton who used bible versus out of context to get his followers to send him money in exchange for God to answer their prayers. Joel Osteen's followers are either desperate for answered prayers or more interested in Hallmark gospel (gospel that sounds good ) like the faith you mentioned below.
You can do a quick google search and find his beliefs on salvation and the requirements other than faith alone. The link you provided is not what I was referring to. Im not saying John is a false prophet or even a bad pastor, im simply saying that there are a few areas of his doctrine that are slightly off center, not completely off base- and there is a big difference.
Salvation is something to hard to understand for a lot of people, especially because its free and offered to everyone and given to those who simply believe that Jesus death was sufficient payment for our sins before God the father. God excepted his sons death as payment for our sins instead of us having to die for them. We live in a world where we get promotions, bonuses, recognition and raises for works and a lot of people simply cannot believe that eternal life is free without some other kind of requirements like full repentance, or turning completely away from sin, denial of self, full submission to Christ etc. ( if that was the case, then Jesus's death would not be sufficient alone) Those are some of the things John Macarthur believes and has suggested as a requirement for salvation. Now, once we have excepted Jesus, we are a new creation and we should want to be Christlike. But understand that we simply cannot do it ourselves and that's why Jesus in so important- because He is the way, not us!
I think the later what you said about Joel followers they want the its OK I feel good I go to church on sundays I am saved feeling and they can go sin all week ask for forgiveness and repeat
Ray Comfort I think it was says the false preachers who say God has a great plan for you, life is great can you imagine telling that to all the people in the twin towers the morning of 9/11 !
the Joel followers want this money is good God has a plan for you to be successful etc...
on John M I have looked and I listen to him along with others never heard or found him say anything non biblical about being saved so truly cant find it ?
he is purely biblical and knows it very well and is known for this so wonder if its still something else ?
Memo, fax, voicemail, telegram, email, executive order.
People keep saying god needs to make evil happen in order to accomplish his goals. Isn't that basically the same excuse the nazis used? Needed a homeland. Had to get rid of the pesky people currently in the designated homeland, even if that means killing innocent women and children. The later generations will thank us even though that didn't exactly prove to be true.
great vid for ya better than I can say it :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eUhVJEJqoQ
Six million didn't. And if that was gods plan for getting jews a homeland, I'm sure many would have preferred to save their children even if it meant they had to live in Jersey.
Well, out of all the Israelites who were brought out of the land of Egypt, none of those people entered the promise land, not even Moses! God let that generation die in the wilderness.
One thing people have to do is to stop thinking because the world is a horrible mess that its God's fault or His doing. God is sovereign and yet we have free will. So many people this day and age think God is not real or God is angry because the shape the world is in. The world is a fallen world full of sin.
Just to give you a rough history lesson on the Jews:
God called a man named Abram, changed his name to Abraham and told him to leave everything behind and go to the land God showed him and he would make him the father of a great nation and his descendants would be as numerous as the stars (that is a reference to Jesus). He was obedient. God promised Abraham land for his people. Abraham had a son (Isaac) who had a son (Jacob) who later changed his name to Israel which literally translates to "Wrestles with God". Jacob (Israel) had 12 sons named for the 12 tribes. One of the 12 sons was sold into slavery by his older brothers and was in jail in Egypt. God was with him and gave him wisdom that eventually the Egyptians gave him a position in the Kingdom- 2nd highest in command. After many years the Israelites suffered famine and went to Egypt for food and found their brother who helped them. Over the years the Israelites left there land and lived in Egypt where the grew in numbers until Pharaoh was concerned and so he made them all slaves. (yes they left there land God gave them in favor for Egypt).
450 years went by and the Israelites were slaves in Egypt.
During that 450 years one of the Israelites had a son and his mother placed him in a basket and put into the Nile because Pharaoh wanted to kill all babies out of fear than they were growing as a community too fast. Pharaoh's daughter was bathing and found the baby and kept him as her own. She named him Moses which means to draw from water. Moses lived in Egypt as a royal family member until he stuck up for one of the slaves and killed an Egyptian and then the Israelites chastised him for it. Years later while attending his father in laws sheep, God called him from a burning bush to save His people and lead them out of Egypt. Moses appeared before Pharaoh and God hardened his heart and brought 10 plagues to Egypt- the last one killing all first born (another reference to Jesus).
They left Egypt and God performed many miracles along the way and on the other side of the Red Sea, the Israelites built a golden calf and started worshiping it. God was furious. He brought them into the land of Canaan and told them to take it but they were scared so God made them wonder around the wilderness for 40 years, one year for each day they had spies going around the land.
They entered the promised land at Jericho and settled in there new land and God raised up judges, temporary military leaders like Gideon, Deborah, Samson to defeat the like of Philistines, Amorites, Hittites, Moabites etc. Eventually the Israelites rejected God and His prophets and wanted a man to be there leader. They got Saul, then David and finally Solomon. Things were good at first but them quickly fell apart. The kingdom was divided and eventually both northern and southern kingdoms were taken by Assyria and Babylon. During that time God used men like Daniel. God allowed the Israelites to return home where they rebuilt and God sent prophets after prophets to warn them to turn back to God. They rejected these men as well as God. And finally, God was silent for another 450 years until the birth of Christ. Jesus came here to give live but his people rejected him. After some time.
The Jews are no stranger to suffering. They literally have wrestled with God from the very beginning. God chose them as the nation that would bring forth the Messiah (Jesus) and for many years tried to cultivate them into a powerful nation that would set the example but they turned away from him.
Moral of the story is that, when you turn away from God, He is silent but not distant. He is still approachable and will welcome you back with open arms (prodigal Son). He will let you go about your life your way living however you want. You can chose to sin, but you cannot chose the consequence. God will allow you to suffer weather it be from famine, slavery, war or just about anything else if you turn away from him. Nazi Germany, Egypt, Philistines, Moabites, Amorites, Amalekites, Canaanites and Hittites are all the same and have been hell bent of wiping the Jews off the map, but God has always been faithful to his people.
Sure, 6 million Jews died during the holocaust, yeah, but God has promises to keep with his people. And he kept them! The Jews returned to there promised land and God has gave them power and strength.
Yet these foolish old men stand behind pulpits and glower down and scream that the end is near and that god has abandoned us because of the sin they see everywhere when what they really mean is, the world has moved on and left them behind.
They scream about how we need to fear again, how we need to retreat from the progress we've made and collapse back into superstition, and that our accomplishments aren't the prizes we think, just because they make us less reliant on old foolish stories.
You must of gone to a different kind of church than most of us.
One thing people have to do is to stop thinking because the world is a horrible mess that its God's fault or His doing. God is sovereign and yet we have free will. So many people this day and age think God is not real or God is angry because the shape the world is in. The world is a fallen world full of sin.
Since this is likely going to be the only area of agreement between us, I'm gonna leave it there. I also don't think we need a god or a devil for the world to be a mess, I think we are quite capable of incredible damage all by ourselves and it isn't because anyone ate an apple. All the good in the world is the result of our better intentions and all the bad in the world is also the result of our worst intentions.
Or at least that is what I believe and find most likely. I'm also going to be mindful that the person who provided this forum believes differently and that I'm a guest in his online house, so I'm not going to get any deeper into this discussion.
Since this is likely going to be the only area of agreement between us, I'm gonna leave it there. I also don't think we need a god or a devil for the world to be a mess, I think we are quite capable of incredible damage all by ourselves and it isn't because anyone ate an apple. All the good in the world is the result of our better intentions and all the bad in the world is also the result of our worst intentions.
Or at least that is what I believe and find most likely. I'm also going to be mindful that the person who provided this forum believes differently and that I'm a guest in his online house, so I'm not going to get any deeper into this discussion.
This, my friend, is exactly what her hotness Gal Gadot found out in the movie, Wonder Woman. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My first thought this Easter Morning: God Bless America.
My second thought amid all this COVID-19 mess: We are supposed to Praise God in All Things - probably the hardest thing to do when people face hard times and disasters.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-12-20, 11:10
Does God have Free Will?
Does God have Free Will?
God can go about as he pleases, but understand that God is HOLY. That's something a lot of people forget. That's once thing I actually like about John Macarthur, he reminds people that God is Holy and us followers of Christ cannot go about living a sinful life and expect God to continue to pour out his blessings on us.
Image watching a movie, you watch it frame by frame, scene by scene. God sees the entire movie in one image. He is omnipresent(everywhere at the same time), omnipotent(unlimited), omniscient( all knowing). He knows the results of your every action before it was a thought. Gods laws were not suppose to be a hinder to a good life, they were supposed to protect us from ramifications father down the road.
A Gospel message for Easter Sunday, 2020...
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=0295
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