View Full Version : Single stack USPSA
ExplorinInTheWoods
04-12-20, 09:21
If you guys are wanting to get out and run your 1911 sign up for a uspsa match and run the single stack division. It’s for 1911 only. If you’re running a 45 you’re limited to 8 rounds in the mag, 9mm is 10 rounds. But you can start one in the chamber so 8+1. You’ll be slower than other guys because of mag changes but I just ran my first one with a colt combat unit and it was a lot of fun. You’ll be in major power factor for 45 and minor with 9mm. You get a bonus scoring for using the higher caliber if you’re not familiar with USPSA scoring.
If you guys are wanting to get out and run your 1911 sign up for a uspsa match and run the single stack division. It’s for 1911 only. If you’re running a 45 you’re limited to 8 rounds in the mag, 9mm is 10 rounds. But you can start one in the chamber so 8+1. You’ll be slower than other guys because of mag changes but I just ran my first one with a colt combat unit and it was a lot of fun. You’ll be in major power factor for 45 and minor with 9mm. You get a bonus scoring for using the higher caliber if you’re not familiar with USPSA scoring.
Just because you are using a 45 acp dosn't mean you will be in major, you have to meet major power factor. If you go to a major match like the single stack nationals they will have you pull 7 rounds out of your mag. One round they will pull the bullet to check weight and the others to run over the chrony to check velocity and your bullet weight to see if you make major, and if you don't you are scored minor.
Just because you are using a 45 acp dosn't mean you will be in major, you have to meet major power factor. If you go to a major match like the single stack nationals they will have you pull 7 rounds out of your mag. One round they will pull the bullet to check weight and the others to run over the chrony to check velocity and your bullet weight to see if you make major, and if you don't you are scored minor.
I'm thinking he means factory .45 loads which would be major power factor.
My first USPSA match I shot I shot single stack with a 9mm Colt Commander. It was fun and though I got DQ'd I would do it again.
I shot Single Stack Major at Doubletap last year because the majority of the young run and gun shooters are shooting Production and Carry Optics. Not so much competition in C Class with me :) Won my Class last year and got first trophy in USPSA. Will be shooting Single Stack Major if we actually have a match this year too. It's the "Old Guy" division :)
Yes it is very fun, and a thinking mans class on when to do your mag change.
Yes it is very fun, and a thinking mans class on when to do your mag change.
Yes, very akin to revolver shooting with even less tolerance for wasting shots.
The last time I shot the USPSA Nationals in Limted Class I used a .45 1911 with GI Ball ammo and an Ernie Hill Speed holster (in an era when most everyone else was shooting a 9mm or 40 Glock or some kind of hot-rod .38 Stupid).
Once I signed the paperwork one of the match officials asked for five rounds to run over the chronograph (to see whether your scores are in Major or Minor class, determined by bullet weight divided by muzzle velocity. 170 is floor for Major ... multiply bullet weight (in grains) x velocity (in feet per second), then divide by 1000.
The official asked for my pistol and I cleared it and handed it to him (a plain-Jane issued gun with adjustable sights). He did a double-take and asked, "Is that holster made from a cow?"
"Yup."
He loaded a magazine and fired a single round over the chronograph. The bullet knocked the steel mini-popper out of its base.
"193. You won power factor" with the highest recorded for the championships. GI Ball is no joke.
I didn't win, and I wasn't last.
SeriousStudent
04-15-20, 22:22
The last time I shot the USPSA Nationals in Limted Class I used a .45 1911 with GI Ball ammo and an Ernie Hill Speed holster (in an era when most everyone else was shooting a 9mm or 40 Glock or some kind of hot-rod .38 Stupid).
Once I signed the paperwork one of the match officials asked for five rounds to run over the chronograph (to see whether your scores are in Major or Minor class, determined by bullet weight divided by muzzle velocity. 170 is floor for Major ... multiply bullet weight (in grains) x velocity (in feet per second), then divide by 1000.
The official asked for my pistol and I cleared it and handed it to him (a plain-Jane issued gun with adjustable sights). He did a double-take and asked, "Is that holster made from a cow?"
"Yup."
He loaded a magazine and fired a single round over the chronograph. The bullet knocked the steel mini-popper out of its base.
"193. You won power factor" with the highest recorded for the championships. GI Ball is no joke.
I didn't win, and I wasn't last.
Awesome! :)
I still have my Ernie Hill Speed Leather holster, belt and mag pouches. I'll never get rid of them.
I still have my Bianchi holster and mag pouchs from when I started in 85.
It’s kind of funny now that I think of it, I own and shoot Glocks and even have a belt setup to compete with a Glock but have only ever competed with a 1911.
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Gary1911A1
04-16-20, 07:38
I also shoot Single Stack Division almost exclusively. I'm old enough and slow enough that I don't do good on track and field type stages. I have gone from shooting .45 to .40 and now 9MM due to having RA, cost of ammo and finding a lot of stages are set up for Production and being able to shoot a 1911 with 10 round ETM Magazines just makes more sense.
The last time I shot the USPSA Nationals in Limted Class I used a .45 1911 with GI Ball ammo and an Ernie Hill Speed holster (in an era when most everyone else was shooting a 9mm or 40 Glock or some kind of hot-rod .38 Stupid).
Once I signed the paperwork one of the match officials asked for five rounds to run over the chronograph (to see whether your scores are in Major or Minor class, determined by bullet weight divided by muzzle velocity. 170 is floor for Major ... multiply bullet weight (in grains) x velocity (in feet per second), then divide by 1000.
The official asked for my pistol and I cleared it and handed it to him (a plain-Jane issued gun with adjustable sights). He did a double-take and asked, "Is that holster made from a cow?"
"Yup."
He loaded a magazine and fired a single round over the chronograph. The bullet knocked the steel mini-popper out of its base.
"193. You won power factor" with the highest recorded for the championships. GI Ball is no joke.
I didn't win, and I wasn't last.
Same thing happened to me in my last major IDPA match. I was shooting revolver div and I think the PF is 115 for speedloader revos. I won my class and div and a special award for my 136 PF loads.. I was using VV N320 and Federal magnum SSP's just to make sure I made it...
Revolver guys impress me the most.
We had or followed a revolver group. They had Home Depot buckets with plastic inserts around the inside rim with pre-loaded full-moon clips and speed loaders. You could have knocked me over with a feather when we watched a couple of those guys shoot almost as fast as an MP-5, with multiple reloads where they'd hit the ejector plungers and have the next six or seven in the gun before the empties hit the ground.
Like watching (as well as listening to) music or ballet.
Same thing happened to me in my last major IDPA match. I was shooting revolver div and I think the PF is 115 for speedloader revos. I won my class and div and a special award for my 136 PF loads.. I was using VV N320 and Federal magnum SSP's just to make sure I made it...
“Texas Major” was a joke, or badge of honor in the day.
A 200 PF was no joke.
Most achieved this dubious honor by mistake rather than intention.
You guys really have me wanting to shoot single stack again I might use this as an excuse to pick up an STI Staccato R.
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ExplorinInTheWoods
04-18-20, 14:49
I run factory ammo so I’m major. I’m in the process of getting my press set up. I run a 34 for 3gun but I think single stack is fun. It is a thinking man’s game with the reloads but it’s fun.
Single Stack Major is the way...
61816
Single Stack Major is the way...
61816
Can one use a .38 super auto ?
Can one use a .38 super auto ?
You can, but only as MINOR. No MAJOR if it's not a .45 :)
.38 Super Major is only an option for OPEN Division.
Shooting your single stack 1911 in competition is very humbling for sure. Its a learning experince, but valuable.
PB
61860
You can, but only as MINOR. No MAJOR if it's not a .45 :)
.38 Super Major is only an option for OPEN Division.
Not so, plenty of guys using .40 S&W for SS Major. Never seen anyone use .38 Super at a match outside of Open division...but am unaware of it being excluded from any other divisions. It would be scored Minor in SS.
61860
Not so, plenty of guys using .40 S&W for SS Major. Never seen anyone use .38 Super at a match outside of Open division...but am unaware of it being excluded from any other divisions. I would it would be scored Minor in SS.
Sorry you are correct, I haven't seen many .40 SS shooters myself.
Interesting that you can shoot .40 / .357Sig for Major, but you can't shoot .38 Super Major in SS? Don't get that.
RULEBOOK:
APPENDIX D5 –Single-Stack Division
1 Minimum power factor for Major 165
2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125
3 Minimum bullet weight No
4 Minimum bullet caliber/cartridge case length .38 cal. / 9x19 mm (0.354” x 0.748”)
5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major .40 cal. / 10mm (0.40”)/ .357 SIG
.357 Sig bullets are typically .355.
.38 Super bullets are typically .356
Should be able to shoot .38 Super Major in SS but you can't. Rules make no sense.
The guys who shoot SS w .40 typically also have / shoot a .40 2011 in Ltd, 1 load = 2 divisions. .38 Super only being scored Minor probably has more to do with magazine capacity than PF. 10mm, .40S&W & .357 Sig all have basically the same size case at the rim and you can only reliably fit 8 in a typical 1911 magazine where .38 Super is basically the same as 9mm and you can get 10 in a a typical magazine. Major is limited to 8 in the magazine at the start and the temptation for stuffing an extra round or two in with .38 Super may be to much for some to resist and hard for an RO to track...so it’s relegated to Minor regardless of PF.
The guys who shoot SS w .40 typically also have / shoot a .40 2011 in Ltd, 1 load = 2 divisions. .38 Super only being scored Minor probably has more to do with magazine capacity than PF. 10mm, .40S&W & .357 Sig all have basically the same size case at the rim and you can only reliably fit 8 in a typical 1911 magazine where .38 Super is basically the same as 9mm and you can get 10 in a a typical magazine. Major is limited to 8 in the magazine at the start and the temptation for stuffing an extra round or two in with .38 Super may be to much for some to resist and hard for an RO to track...so it’s relegated to Minor regardless of PF.
Yes, I believe this is part of the reason. The other part is the inherent risk in loading .38 super major. The open guys/gals build special guns for their division be it .38 super or 9mm major. Supported chambers being the main concern I believe. My Colt does not have a supported chamber and so there is a risk of a blown case head [super face anybody?]. I blew a case head once using a very fast powder in a minor load combined with what I think was a old worn case.
Yes, I believe this is part of the reason. The other part is the inherent risk in loading .38 super major. The open guys/gals build special guns for their division be it .38 super or 9mm major. Supported chambers being the main concern I believe. My Colt does not have a supported chamber and so there is a risk of a blown case head [super face anybody?]. I blew a case head once using a very fast powder in a minor load combined with what I think was a old worn case.
It's easy to make 165PF with .38 Super without excessive pressure and perfectly safe to shoot in standard 1911s.
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/making-major-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/137998
Some factory loads make it too:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/2/6/powerful-and-accurate-geco-38-super-automatic/
But you may ultimately be right - USPSA playing it safe - I get that.
It's easy to make 165PF with .38 Super without excessive pressure and perfectly safe to shoot in standard 1911s.
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/making-major-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/137998
Some factory loads make it too:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/2/6/powerful-and-accurate-geco-38-super-automatic/
But you may ultimately be right - USPSA playing it safe - I get that.
Yes, I have some of the Geco stuff and yes, it is lively ! Even with a slightly heavier recoil spring of #15 empties eject waaay far away.. But I pulled this paragraph from the article :
"My Colt pistol does not have a fully supported chamber since it has a 2-piece feed ramp. Chamber support is good, but some brands of high performance ammunition have sometimes produced excess bulging in the unsupported region. Four of 23 recovered brass had a small amount of excess bulging in the unsupported region near the case head. The remaining brass did not. Shooters with unsupported chambers should watch closely for evidence of excess case bulge, and if present, should discontinue use of any ammunition that does this. This ammunition would be perfectly safe in any chamber that offers full support, such as most ramped barrels."
One could probably go through hundreds if not thousands of this Geco ammo without mishap but all it takes is one weak case. My blown case was the result of a weak/older case and VV N310, a very fast powder that no doubt spiked the pressure very quickly. I felt little stings on my face and arms [I hate to think what would have happened w/o eye pro] and the gun froze solid. I pounded it open and extracted what was left of the case. My Wilson mag was deformed and the plastic follower broken. That was a light charge of fast powder, what would have happened with a compressed charge of slower powder and a weak case?
So yes, I think you are right, USPSA is playing it safe. Wisely so.
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