View Full Version : This is why Colt infuriates people...
Not a rant but I know how many people put so much into roll marks that I thought this was worth showing...
I bought a stripped Colt upper from Geissele during their black Friday sale.
I bought another stripped Colt upper from Primary Arms last week.
Even thought they have the same cage code and square, they are different. Different enough to make me believe they are finished by different companies.
Ignore the FA on both of these. I was in the middle of swapping them out for something else when I noticed all of this.
The bottom one is from Geissele, the top from Primary Arms. Note the different square shape/size and cage code. Geissele's cage code is engraved while PA's is dot matrix printed.
61768
The rail numbers are a different font as well. the camera doesn't pick this up as well, but the Geissele upper (bottom) is thinner and more precise font. its also more of a white while the PA is more yellow.
61769
The M4 markings on the Geissele (left) are a different font and spacing as the PA.
61770
Now to the part that kinda stands out to me; it looks like the PA upper (left) has a thicker layer of dry film lube than the Geissele.
61771
It's also a very slight difference, but the PA is an ever-so-slightly darker shade of black.
Would you doubt either of these to be genuine? If not, what could account for the differences?
Colt has changed their marking and removed some several times in the last few years. What is could be is that the Geissele upper is older stock as I imagine PA sells a lot more Colt Upper receivers than G does. I purchased one from Grant a 18 months ago and it looks like the one from G. The 6920 I purchased in Sept 19 also looks like the G version. Both are definitely roll marked.
Edit...Colt has also been outsourcing a lot of stuff. As long as it’s made to their spec and of proper tolerances I’m ok. It just could be their suppliers markings....if it was indeed outsourced.
I'm guessing different subcontractors.
Not a rant but I know how many people put so much into roll marks that I thought this was worth showing...
They are both genuine.
I don't know why you are "infuriated"?
A simple gunbroker search for LE6920 rifles would have found several factory rifles with the dot matrix CAGE code marking.
Look at picture 9 in this auction:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/865503491
Colt contracts companies like Martin Marietta, Anchor Harvey and Alcoa for their upper receivers. Do you think Colt puts the cage code numbers on themselves or ask manufactures to put them on?
I would think nothing of any of these characteristics. I've been shooting ARs long enough to see many variations that Colt has gone through. Including the Polymer Rifle buffer.
I guess I've just never really noticed/cared before. Looking at the Colt's in the safe I'm now seeing the differences in markings, etc. that I just didn't pay attention to until now.
Maybe it's just cabin fever... been cooped up too long looking at rifles instead of shooting them...
Is the dry film coating an actual mil-spec thing because I'm pretty sure I have receivers that don't have it.
I have to check my Colt SOCOM barrel but I think it might have a dot matrix cage code.
I would think nothing of any of these characteristics. I've been shooting ARs long enough to see many variations that Colt has gone through. Including the Polymer Rifle buffer.
I can remember arfcom clowns lining up to defend those with the cries of, “they are just as good”.
donlapalma
04-16-20, 23:33
Gotta admit. I'm not infuriated.
Looks great!
Please post pics up when they’re built! :D
Gotta admit. I'm not infuriated.
Only thing that infuriates me is the OP being infuriated about something so stupid.
But infuriate isn't the right word, more like 'dude, shoot more and play with yourself less' kind of :rolleyes:
Colt is Colt. They have lots of subs. Some may not scratch your itch every time.
It’s a Colt; I have seen different marking on all my lowers, uppers, barrels, BCG’s, etc. as long as it has the “C” or Cage Code, i am fine.
Only thing that infuriates me is the OP being infuriated about something so stupid.
But infuriate isn't the right word, more like 'dude, shoot more and play with yourself less' kind of :rolleyes:
Colt is Colt. They have lots of subs. Some may not scratch your itch every time.
This is kind of like this discussion:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?221994-BCM-Manufacturer-or-Assembler
Ridiculous to assume that each 'brand name' seller has the desire, or ability to make every little piece.
Cerro forge makes OEM forgings for many brands, the last list I got included Colt M4, CMMG, BCM, S&W, Daniel Defense, DElton, DPMS, Spikes, and Knight's (not the square, though).
Why folks can't understand this is beyond me.
It's just like folks who think company A, who sells 30,000 LPK's a year at a price lower than company B, does so by buying lower quality springs, hammers and triggers. Apparently they were asleep during the lecture on economies of scale.
TexasAggie2005
04-17-20, 13:00
A consistent aspect of Colt is that they are inconsistent with cosmetics (markings, color, "fit & finish", etc).
And just an observation of mine;
Forums are full of threads of people asking/complaining about Colt's inconsistent cosmetics. In an order of magnitude more than threads of people complaining their Colt broke or isn't reliable.
Some of y’all would have a seizure if you were issued a M4.
Some of y’all would have a seizure if you were issued a M4.
LOL! Checking for teflon, etc. :haha:
A year ago (maybe two?) Stag Arms started a ruckus when it was alleged that they used some Chinese-made "enhanced" charging handles in some of their guns. They issued refunds or replacements to everyone that wanted one. IIRC, their response was that a vendor had been less than honest with them.
EBay, Amazon, and many vendors sell various Chinese-made AR accessories. I wouldn't be surprised if they're starting to creep into the supply chain.
A year ago (maybe two?) Stag Arms started a ruckus when it was alleged that they used some Chinese-made "enhanced" charging handles in some of their guns. They issued refunds or replacements to everyone that wanted one. IIRC, their response was that a vendor had been less than honest with them.
EBay, Amazon, and many vendors sell various Chinese-made AR accessories. I wouldn't be surprised if they're starting to creep into the supply chain.
As long as it's indicated as such...I just purchased a Eotech G33 off amazon...it better be legit...
As long as it's indicated as such...I just purchased a Eotech G33 off amazon...it better be legit...
A bit of thread drift, but this is EOTech's "How To Recognize A Counterfeit" sheet. I think it's probably a few years old now:
https://www.eotechinc.com/sites/default/files/client/recognizing-counterfeit-sights_0.pdf
Gotta admit. I'm not infuriated.
Motherfker Im not either. I'm so not pissed. I've bought complete Colts with uppers and lowers that looked different and blotchy as hell. They shot just fine. That is the hallmark of Colt, kinda.
PB
Serious question. What's with the roll marks? I've never noticed them till I started reading some posts here. Is there a reason it's a thing?
SeriousStudent
04-18-20, 09:30
Some of y’all would have a seizure if you were issued a M4.
I'd love that to happen. I'd disassemble it, and sell everything but the receiver on the EE. Probably make about three grand parting it out. :cool:
Eurodriver
04-18-20, 09:38
Some of y’all would have a seizure if you were issued a M4.
"WHY ARE THERE BRASS MARKS ON MY SHELL DEFLECTOR AND WHAT IS THIS PAINT PEN MARKING THE ARMORY PUT ON IT?" - OP if he enlisted, probably.
Ugh. I'm never living this one down...
My point with this listing is not that I'M infuriated, it's to show why people could understandably be.
My only personal concern is the difference in the dry film lube.
I understand differences in marking methods and finishes when working with different suppliers. What struck me is the dry film lube and how one was so much thicker and applied more consistently than the other. When issuing specs to your supplier you would assume this important part would have better QA.
Now, if it makes you feel better, please proceed flaming. I'm not getting butthurt.
My point with this listing is not that I'M infuriated, it's to show why people could understandably be.
MMmmkay. :p
"WHY ARE THERE BRASS MARKS ON MY SHELL DEFLECTOR AND WHAT IS THIS PAINT PEN MARKING THE ARMORY PUT ON IT?" - OP if he enlisted, probably.
Draft dodgers, all of them!
(waiting for someone to reply/ask 'but, but,ait, we haven't had the draft for 40 years')
ChattanoogaPhil
04-18-20, 12:17
My point with this listing is not that I'M infuriated, it's to show why people could understandably be.
I think I understand your argument. If the things folks can easily examine are obviously inconsistent then it can put a question in their mind about the things that aren't so easily examined. Kinda like... Built to Colt specs... hardly a convincing mantra when they can't even spec T-marks. That's what goes through some folk's heads.
That's about all the time I wish to spend on what might be swimming around in the heads of others.
Cheers
I don't think anyone has addressed this, but doesn't dry film lube wear away in the first mag or 2 anyway? Who cares if there's DFL in the upper?
Op,
You’ve been here for 8 years. You had to know that butt hurt and flaming were in your future when you hit post.
Next time have a cup of coffee first and confirm that you are longed into TOS before you hit post
I’m glad you have accepted your fate. :-)
Seriously, it’s probably the covid lockdown that is agitating you.
Stay safe and have a nice weekend.
I just realized that my 2020 Taco's grill looks different than the 06, dang it!
Just joking OP!
I'm certain, one could compare for instance a BCM UR and see subtle changes or barrel markings.
Don't worry, OP. I recently picked up this. A RRA Plain-Jane A2 HBAR for range/target/general plinking use. A hopelessly obsolete configuration that no decent American should concern himself with (OK, at least nobody under the age of 50).
https://i.imgur.com/Yv6BrD0l.jpg
Don't worry, OP. I recently picked up this. A RRA Plain-Jane A2 HBAR for range/target/general plinking use. A hopelessly obsolete configuration that no decent American should concern himself with (OK, at least nobody under the age of 50).
https://i.imgur.com/Yv6BrD0l.jpg
My kind of rifle! Cool!
How long before some young whippersnapper makes the obligatory 'boomer gun' drive-by?
Don't worry, OP. I recently picked up this. A RRA Plain-Jane A2 HBAR for range/target/general plinking use. A hopelessly obsolete configuration that no decent American should concern himself with (OK, at least nobody under the age of 50).
https://i.imgur.com/Yv6BrD0l.jpgI want a "musket" now, regret not getting one earlier.
RetroRevolver77
04-18-20, 22:50
Delete.
How long before some young whippersnapper makes the obligatory 'boomer gun' drive-by?
Ok Boomer.
Just kidding; the classics are fun to shoot.
Draft dodgers, all of them!
(waiting for someone to reply/ask 'but, but,ait, we haven't had the draft for 40 years')
https://youtu.be/lYodLUtySHk
Heck, I might just get a 4x carry handle scope for that A2. That should confuse/confound the Millennials :D
hotrodder636
04-19-20, 09:15
FWIW, I have 3 Colts, the fit and finish is worse than my LMT, KAC and Aeros. That said, they shoot and they shoot just fine. It has been said before “Colt makes warhorses, not show ponies”.
rooster2412
04-19-20, 11:40
Thank you for posting this thread. I bought several flat top uppers from 3 vendors in the last couple of weeks, who ever had them in stock at the time, Primary Arms, DOA Arms, and Charlie's Custom so when I get home I'll look for the differences....
I think your “infuriation” is directed at the wrong party in this scenario. If I received the upper you did and was worried about the markings I would be more concerned about it being a fake and mad at the vendor. If I had no reason to believe it was a fake then I wouldn’t be upset with Colt.
Ugh. I'm never living this one down...
My point with this listing is not that I'M infuriated, it's to show why people could understandably be.
My only personal concern is the difference in the dry film lube.
I understand differences in marking methods and finishes when working with different suppliers. What struck me is the dry film lube and how one was so much thicker and applied more consistently than the other. When issuing specs to your supplier you would assume this important part would have better QA.
Now, if it makes you feel better, please proceed flaming. I'm not getting butthurt.
So it was a preemptive noting of potential offense, for those who might take offense, but it certainly wasn't you? Got it.
The only issue I have had with a Colt was a complete lower from a LARGE online and actual walk in business. Upon arrival at my ffl the pistol grip was loose. I accepted it and went home. In attempting to tighten the screw, it refused to turn in clockwise. It would loosen but not go any further tight.
Contacted the seller and they replaced it no issues. A 1 off problem, probably, just like any other company. I get mad, nope. Just disheartened. Waiting a short wait.
Now if I my Colt purchase had arrived and had I.O. Inc. stamped in it I would have pitched a walleyed fit.
It actually was my first Colt rifle purchase, 1911's Oh Yes.
Ugh. I'm never living this one down...
My point with this listing is not that I'M infuriated, it's to show why people could understandably be.
My only personal concern is the difference in the dry film lube.
I understand differences in marking methods and finishes when working with different suppliers. What struck me is the dry film lube and how one was so much thicker and applied more consistently than the other. When issuing specs to your supplier you would assume this important part would have better QA.
Now, if it makes you feel better, please proceed flaming. I'm not getting butthurt.
I can take 100 uppers from 1959 to present and some of them have dry film lube applied in a more sloppy manner than others.
These things you are seeing are nothing new.
I get constant emails daily from potential buyers on gunbroker about issues like this; from supposed experts who claim they have never seen these cosmetic issues until recently.
These are military weapons which do not have a strict cosmetic standard criteria like a fine sporting arm. These parts and guns are piled on top of each other at the factory with no padding in-between them during manufacturing.
Go look at an M1903, M1, or M14. They have the same rough finishes and machining (if not worse).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.