View Full Version : The CCP, COVID-19, and continued control of China
I have heard a few pundits surmise that this virus and it's economic fallout there may spell the end of the CCP's lock on power in China. I don't believe it. Those ChiComs would see hundreds of millions of their own die rather than relinquish control.
I listened to a radio interview today on the way home with a Joshua Philipp from the Epoch Times. He apparently did a documentary on the Wuhan biolab a little while back (like when this all first started) and it was very interesting. One of the things he mentioned is that female Chinese doc who worked there and was supposedly playing with lots of things most rational people wouldn't normally fvck with. Ostensibly she even dabbled in synthetic viruses, one of which absolutely obliterated the lungs of mice and there was no cure.
That got me to thinking......if the ChiComs thought they were about to lose power would anyone put it past them to release something like the above as a big FU to their own people and the rest of the world? "If I can't have her, nobody will!"
Here's the Epoch documentary.
https://youtu.be/3bXWGxhd7ic
There is also speculation that China was close to financial collapse. Then the the trade tariffs worsened an already bad situation. The corona virus may have been in retaliation.
There needs to a clear distinction made between China and the CCP. The majority of the Chinese people do not support the CCP. The CCP is the enemy.
Here's the Epoch documentary.
https://youtu.be/3bXWGxhd7ic
Oh hell, didn't realize it was one and the same as WillBrink posted in the closed thread!
This is an excellent documentary on the CCP. All 9 parts are available.
Nine Commentaries Pt 1: What the Communist Party Is
https://youtu.be/7HPghxhe7OE
SomeOtherGuy
04-16-20, 20:18
I listened to a radio interview today on the way home with a Joshua Philipp from the Epoch Times.
The Epoch Times is extreme fringe and owned by members and supporters of the Falun Gong movement. That doesn't make them bad or anything, but be mindful that they have deep hatred for the CCP, with good reason, and that may (does) introduce bias.
Not like there is ANY unbiased news source for China issues these days. ANY.
That got me to thinking......if the ChiComs thought they were about to lose power would anyone put it past them to release something like the above as a big FU to their own people and the rest of the world? "If I can't have her, nobody will!"
I could imagine this, but my working theory is that the Wuhan lab, doing stupid and risky stuff, had an accidental release that they and CCP tried to cover up. CCP quickly realized they had a dangerous yet deniable weapon on their hands, and intentionally took measures to ensure the wide spread of the virus around the world, and particularly to the US. It didn't start as an act of war, but by deliberate failure to slow the spread or provide essential information to the rest of the world, it became one.
I could imagine this, but my working theory is that the Wuhan lab, doing stupid and risky stuff, had an accidental release that they and CCP tried to cover up. CCP quickly realized they had a dangerous yet deniable weapon on their hands, and intentionally took measures to ensure the wide spread of the virus around the world, and particularly to the US. It didn't start as an act of war, but by deliberate failure to slow the spread or provide essential information to the rest of the world, it became one.
It's possible, but there would be a lot of moving parts to ensure something like this spreads, without annihilating your own population. Intentional or accidental, the Peoples Republic of China needs to be cut-off and isolated. Without western money, they can devolve into the 3rd World Country they actually are, complete with their polished facade of shoddy infrastructure - all show, no substance. If not, we will be in a shooting war with that Country, perhaps sooner than later.
Diamondback
04-16-20, 20:52
It's possible, but there would be a lot of moving parts to ensure something like this spreads, without annihilating your own population.
Remember, we ARE talking about a culture that at one time thought for some incomprehensible reason that lining a bunch of people up and ordering them to kill not the enemy but THEMSELVES was a great military tactic... Value of Human Life kinda isn't really a big thing over there.
My theory is this purely incompetence. There is mounting evidence this originated in the Wuhan Biological lab.
Ever wonder why all of these pandemics seem start in China? I label it as pure and utter incompetence at running a biological facility.
Spanish Flu - China 1918
Asian Flu - China 1957
Avian Flu H5N1 - China 1996
SARS - China 2002
Corona Virus - China 2020
This isn't a complete list, but does anyone other than me find it peculiar the more recent pandemics always originate in China?
My theory is this purely incompetence. There is mounting evidence this originated in the Wuhan Biological lab.
Ever wonder why all of these pandemics seem start in China? I label it as pure and utter incompetence at running a biological facility.
Spanish Flu - China 1918
Asian Flu - China 1957
Avian Flu H5N1 - China 1996
SARS - China 2002
Corona Virus - China 2020
This isn't a complete list, but does anyone other than me find it peculiar the more recent pandemics always originate in China?
It's very unlikely the Spanish Flu outbreak originated in China. Also in 1918 China had nothing in terms of a biological weapon development capacity. Their military was probably more disorganized than any other at the time.
Asian Flu did originate in China, but again they had almost nothing in terms of a biological weapon development program, they couldn't even feed their population at the time.
Also most flu viruses are a result of domesticated animals where humans are in contact with large numbers of food stock animals and sometimes a virus mutates to the point it can do a species jump. This is why you get bird flu, swine flu and even horse and dog flu. Given that China is a very domestic animals dependent it shouldn't be surprising that a lot of outbreaks occur there.
China also has a huge population, so having it be where some kind of outbreak occurs isn't any more sinister than something that started in Russia. Large numbers of poor people living at or below poverty levels is the real catalyst, not some secret bio lab. Also if China was going to do something like that, the goal would be to have a population that could secure the state and take over territory. This would be like us nuking NY and LA to defeat Russia.
Back in the 80s Russia spread a propaganda program that provided evidence that AIDS began as a US military bioweapon that got "out in the wild" and people believed that shit for years until the wall came down and KGB files were opened.
Diamondback
04-17-20, 01:38
Back in the 80s Russia spread a propaganda program that provided evidence that AIDS began as a US military bioweapon that got "out in the wild" and people believed that shit for years until the wall came down and KGB files were opened.
And there are more than a few intellectually-underendowed sorts out there who still DO believe that... :(
It's very unlikely the Spanish Flu outbreak originated in China. Also in 1918 China had nothing in terms of a biological weapon development capacity. Their military was probably more disorganized than any other at the time.
Thank you! The China theory was largely forgotten before this whole thing started, and now it gets quoted like it is a certain fact. I've heard it mentioned more in the last two months than in the last two decades. The evidence for it is very circumstantial at best and doesn't really explain how and why it spread the way it did. I'm in the Fort Riley/Camp Funston camp, but even the European origin makes more sense in 1917/18 context.
SomeOtherGuy
04-17-20, 10:33
Take this with a grain of salt - but supposedly a Nobel prize winner who discovered HIV says that this virus was created in a lab:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-man-made-virus-hiv-discoverer-says-could-only-have-been-created-lab
He does not seem to claim it's a bioweapon. More of an accidental release of something created within the lab for research purposes.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html
I know it's not about COVID-19 specifically but it is a VERY interesting read, somewhat in the same vein though. They actually recovered the 1918 Influenza from bodies in the permafrost in Alaska and recreated it in the CDC laboratory. Took major, uber precautions but they actually revived an extinct virus....and a VERY bad one at that.
Wonder what they did with the samples once they were done? Probably stored somewhere, what could possibly go wrong? Lovely......
At this point.....anything is possible. IF it is proven that there was an intentional and deliberate action concerning the Corona Virus, think about the recourse for the entire world. Nothing but complete and absolute boycott and or isolation from China. Too many people have died and been infected. IMO, war could certainly be a possibility but how or when is anyone’s guess. Of course, I am sure, we the people, are NOT being told everything.
I have developed a hatred of China, that make my feelings for the palestinians look like a romance.
Only one thing I hate more than China exists in this world.
A part of me wants the USA to borrow every neutron bomb in the world and nuke the hell out of Chinese cities. I am willing to kill hundreds of millions to pay back the leadership. But for good or bad I am not the President of the USA.
So then I calm down and think we need to hurt them economically drop them down to a insignificant third world country.
So then I calm down and remember history. The Treat of Versailles, did just what I want to do to China, to Germany post WW1. Which resulted in Hitler and WW2. We also embargoed Japan prior to WW2, which led to Pearl Harbor and the Asian part of WW2.
So I then I look at how fast Americans gave into a radical change in our lives. I look at the fact that the numbers we use at the Federal level came from a department at University of Washington funded by Gates Foundation.
I am afraid we have been sold a bill of goods on how bad Corona was going to be.
The question is why? Who benefits? Who might be hurt?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html
I know it's not about COVID-19 specifically but it is a VERY interesting read, somewhat in the same vein though. They actually recovered the 1918 Influenza from bodies in the permafrost in Alaska and recreated it in the CDC laboratory. Took major, uber precautions but they actually revived an extinct virus....and a VERY bad one at that.
Wonder what they did with the samples once they were done? Probably stored somewhere, what could possibly go wrong? Lovely......
That was a good read. Here's a direct link to the recreation of the 1918 influenza.. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html
It is (was) an existing virus, further engineered in a lab. The virus itself is naturally occurring. The virus was documented as far back as 2007 as an emerging highly contagious virus on which to keep an eye.
I am afraid we have been sold a bill of goods on how bad Corona was going to be.
Based on what? Chicken Little Syndrome? Models? Evidence? Statistics?
Defined how? Mortality? Hospitalizations?
Medically it's every bit as bad as advertised.
The first models showed 1 to 2.5 million dead if we did nothing. 100k to 225k if we were good little children.
We are around 30k right now and we are talking about being able to start opening up on a State by State basis.
Then I look at Sweden and Denmark, Sweden said we will do nothing and the last I checked they had 900 something dead, Denmark had like 280 dead.
So in 2 States that are a lot alike we see a difference in number of dead 3 times greater not 10 times.
Then I look at Ethiopia, they still have flights from China landing every day and they are in week 3 I think of the lock down there. They are looking at around 90 dead.
So why were the numbers from the USA models so far off?
Do not mistake my criticism of the models and wondering if we over reacted, as a down play of the illness.
Corona is strange, some people get it and have no symptoms and others get it recover and say it was hell.
Others a lot of others have died, so I don't down play the virus. I spend more time and energy on trying to ease human suffering from the virus than I do anything else any more.
But questions must be asked on the numbers projected. Questions must be asked who wins from this and who might lose?
I am seeing some winners and losers starting to emerge.
Based on what? Chicken Little Syndrome? Models? Evidence? Statistics?
Defined how? Mortality? Hospitalizations?
Medically it's every bit as bad as advertised.
That is why I do NOT want to catch it come Hell or high water.
While mathematically you will survive, that shit can turn on a dime medical condition-wise.
My brother lives in Florida. He remarked to me last week that "I wish I'd just go ahead and get it and be done with it". I quickly told him "No you don't, because it can very well be done with YOU".
LET ME BE CLEAR!
Given a choice between getting Corona or going out and slamming my hand in the Jeep door. I am heading to the jeep.
I had a strange illness for a week in February, but do I know it was Corona. Nope
SeriousStudent
04-17-20, 17:16
I'm just going to post this one time.
Keep this thread civil. The first time somebody misbehaves, they are going into quarantine, and they'll wish they had a ventilator.
We had five different mod/staff members issue warnings in the last thread. We were ignored, and we ended up banning a half-dozen people as a result.
Act like adults.
Take this with a grain of salt - but supposedly a Nobel prize winner who discovered HIV says that this virus was created in a lab:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-man-made-virus-hiv-discoverer-says-could-only-have-been-created-lab
He does not seem to claim it's a bioweapon. More of an accidental release of something created within the lab for research purposes.
He really needs to be taken out back and beaten over the head with his Nobel prize, nobody with that level of education should be that stupid. We very much do know where HIV/AIDS came from, hell even Wikipedia has it right.
The first models showed 1 to 2.5 million dead if we did nothing. 100k to 225k if we were good little children.
We are around 30k right now and we are talking about being able to start opening up on a State by State basis.
Then I look at Sweden and Denmark, Sweden said we will do nothing and the last I checked they had 900 something dead, Denmark had like 280 dead.
So in 2 States that are a lot alike we see a difference in number of dead 3 times greater not 10 times.
Then I look at Ethiopia, they still have flights from China landing every day and they are in week 3 I think of the lock down there. They are looking at around 90 dead.
So why were the numbers from the USA models so far off?
Do not mistake my criticism of the models and wondering if we over reacted, as a down play of the illness.
Corona is strange, some people get it and have no symptoms and others get it recover and say it was hell.
Others a lot of others have died, so I don't down play the virus. I spend more time and energy on trying to ease human suffering from the virus than I do anything else any more.
But questions must be asked on the numbers projected. Questions must be asked who wins from this and who might lose?
I am seeing some winners and losers starting to emerge.
Okay, I got you. I agree. I just wasn't quite sure where you're going with it. In some instances, it is every bit as bad as we thought. In other instances, it's a nothing burger.
I know one person that has died from Corona, I wasn't close too him. But he went to a synagogue I pop into from time to time.
He was 55 years old, no preconditions, but he is dead.
I have heard a few pundits surmise that this virus and it's economic fallout there may spell the end of the CCP's lock on power in China. I don't believe it. Those ChiComs would see hundreds of millions of their own die rather than relinquish control.
I listened to a radio interview today on the way home with a Joshua Philipp from the Epoch Times. He apparently did a documentary on the Wuhan biolab a little while back (like when this all first started) and it was very interesting. One of the things he mentioned is that female Chinese doc who worked there and was supposedly playing with lots of things most rational people wouldn't normally fvck with. Ostensibly she even dabbled in synthetic viruses, one of which absolutely obliterated the lungs of mice and there was no cure.
That got me to thinking......if the ChiComs thought they were about to lose power would anyone put it past them to release something like the above as a big FU to their own people and the rest of the world? "If I can't have her, nobody will!"
Not a chance. There may be some big shake ups within the CCP over this, but those commies will never give up power unless a military coup took place, and I just don't see it happening any time soon.
Not a chance. There may be some big shake ups within the CCP over this, but those commies will never give up power unless a military coup took place, and I just don't see it happening any time soon.
I don't even think there will be big shake ups. Maybe the removal of some low-level authorities for window dressing and public consumption, but NEVER even coming close to Xi's level or his cohorts in Beijing.
I know one person that has died from Corona, I wasn't close too him. But he went to a synagogue I pop into from time to time.
He was 55 years old, no preconditions, but he is dead.
I think when all is said and done, the actual numbers for places like Africa will be a LOT higher.
I think there was genuine, significant risk with this one, especially in places like NY, LA and DC for obvious reasons. But I also think a big part of this was a social experiment, not in a sinister conspiracy way but something more than a 1960s "nuclear attacK" preparedness drill.
This may not have been "the big one" but now we have some idea of our capability should "the big one" ever happen. This is a best case scenario of what a true national disaster would look like. Lots of people both government and private citizens simply weren't prepared at all and we saw an indication of what the "panic" might look like.
Of course it doesn't matter that we are still deep into the "stay at home" recommendations, but as soon as everyone got their corona check yesterday they swamped Wal Mart and I shit you not...bought every big screen TV they had in inventory. When I first went there, the parking lot was so full I thought there must be some kind of "free giveaway" going on. And then I noticed every shopping cart had a big screen TV on it.
SomeOtherGuy
04-17-20, 20:21
He really needs to be taken out back and beaten over the head with his Nobel prize, nobody with that level of education should be that stupid. We very much do know where HIV/AIDS came from, hell even Wikipedia has it right.
He's not claiming that HIV came from a lab, he's claiming that nCov-19 came from a lab.
The story could still be wrong, but just wanted to clear that up.
Averageman
04-17-20, 20:22
I could imagine this, but my working theory is that the Wuhan lab, doing stupid and risky stuff, had an accidental release that they and CCP tried to cover up. CCP quickly realized they had a dangerous yet deniable weapon on their hands, and intentionally took measures to ensure the wide spread of the virus around the world, and particularly to the US. It didn't start as an act of war, but by deliberate failure to slow the spread or provide essential information to the rest of the world, it became one.
I believe this to me the end truth on this event.
It may not have been an intentional release, but it happened, then it gained speed. I believe the Chinese were on to it and decided to use this as a way to gain ground in an economic losing battle.
As a strategy, it's irresponsible and borders on insane, but to have this dropped in your lap as a leader and still come out better is brilliant.
I think when all is said and done, the actual numbers for places like Africa will be a LOT higher.
I think there was genuine, significant risk with this one, especially in places like NY, LA and DC for obvious reasons. But I also think a big part of this was a social experiment, not in a sinister conspiracy way but something more than a 1960s "nuclear attacK" preparedness drill.
This may not have been "the big one" but now we have some idea of our capability should "the big one" ever happen. This is a best case scenario of what a true national disaster would look like. Lots of people both government and private citizens simply weren't prepared at all and we saw an indication of what the "panic" might look like.
Of course it doesn't matter that we are still deep into the "stay at home" recommendations, but as soon as everyone got their corona check yesterday they swamped Wal Mart and I shit you not...bought every big screen TV they had in inventory. When I first went there, the parking lot was so full I thought there must be some kind of "free giveaway" going on. And then I noticed every shopping cart had a big screen TV on it.
Well there actually was a "free giveaway" called TrumpBux!
Yes, this will give us a good indicator of what to expect with massive problems. However, it has to be accepted that a Big One (comet, nuclear war, "Captain Trips", downers like that) would be magnitudes greater than this current crisis (which means we're all screwed!).
Even in 2020 something like this can shake the foundations. Differences from the 1918 pandemic? Obviously the number of lives lost, and the difference in science/medicine since then. But an astronomically larger economy is the big difference and results in a bigger hit nowadays.
While I'm not convinced China purposely released this beast, their known incompetence and subsequent coverup of what was going on did release it and allowed it to spread. Kind of like Chernobyl, or manslaughter for fatal drunk driving crashes, but in a virological kind of way.
Once the dust settles with this scourge we will need to deal with the CCP harshly. Break their economy with a world stranglehold on it (I'm not holding my breath on that). Be prepared for them to get stupid and if they realize a bug like this can nearly cripple the greatest economy in the world they'll do it to save face and throw a big bird at the West, especially us.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-17-20, 20:34
I am afraid we have been sold a bill of goods on how bad Corona was going to be.
It's still still a bit early in the game. Just two weeks ago there was about 5,000 corona-related deaths reported. A couple weeks later now there's 37,000 reported dead. 30,000 dead in two weeks. Another 2,500 dead today. And this is in the context of much of the country in lockdown for the past month.
What would the death toll be if this had continued?
https://i.imgur.com/DqqxQu5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JftPXwM.jpg
It's still still a bit early in the game. Just two weeks ago there was about 5,000 corona-related deaths reported. A couple weeks later now there's 37,000 reported dead. 30,000 dead in two weeks. Another 2,500 dead today. And this is in the context of much of the country in lockdown for the past month.
What would the death toll be if this had continued?
In metropolis areas it will spread like wildfire. Look at NYC compared to some podunk county in TN percentage-wise. When people are stacked on one another the spread will be rampant.
The surprisingly admitted-to resurgence in China is concerning, if it ever went away in the first place.
Well there actually was a "free giveaway" called TrumpBux!
Yes, this will give us a good indicator of what to expect with massive problems. However, it has to accepted that a Big One (comet, nuclear war, "Captain Trips", downers like that) would be magnitudes greater than this current crisis (which means we're all screwed!).
Even in 2020 something like this can shake the foundations. Differences from the 1918 pandemic? Obviously the number of lives lost, and the difference in science/medicine since then. But an astronomically larger economy is the big difference and results in a bigger hit nowadays.
While I'm not convinced China purposely released this beast, their known incompetence and subsequent coverup of what was going on did release it and allowed it to spread. Kind of like Chernobyl, or manslaughter for fatal drunk driving crashes, but in a virological kind of way.
Once the dust settles with this scourge we will need to deal with the CCP harshly. Break their economy with a world stranglehold on it (I'm not holding my breath on that). Be prepared for them to get stupid and if they realize a bug like this can nearly cripple the greatest economy in the world they'll do it to save face and throw a big bird at the West, especially us.
Well you got me on the giveaway, that said, it was appreciated because being in "duck and cover" mode has cost me quite a bit more than $1,200.
If there is an asteroid or super volcano, that isn't "the big one", that is "the last one." If we get a "big one", I might have to dust off my "people to shoot first" list. Big one basically means "emergency responders" and "emergency services" are yesterday.
China also has to be careful with their economic war as we are not only their primary rival, but also their primary consumer. If they break the apple cart Russia isn't going to be stepping in to take up our slack and I don't see the Japanese suddenly deciding to be dependent on Chinese made goods. Basically if they tank our economy they tank their own and everyone returns to being a rice paddy farmer like in the Pearl Buck novels.
He's not claiming that HIV came from a lab, he's claiming that nCov-19 came from a lab.
The story could still be wrong, but just wanted to clear that up.
Oh, that's different. And that remains to be seen. Since it's a relative of things we've seen before, my money is on yet another natural mutation. Now if the outbreak began in say...Taiwan, I'd be open to more critical evaluation.
In metropolis areas it will spread like wildfire. Look at NYC compared to some podunk county in TN percentage-wise. When people are stacked on one another the spread will be rampant.
The surprisingly admitted-to resurgence in China is concerning, if it ever went away in the first place.
Not sure how widespread this is, but recall a girlfriends family coming in from New York and doing the kiss greeting.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/325579/
https://www.timeout.com/newyork/blog/new-yorkers-need-to-stop-hugging-each-other-all-the-time-011117/amp
http://www.city-data.com/forum/long-island/551506-kiss-hello.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/social-kissing-rules
ChattanoogaPhil
04-18-20, 09:10
In metropolis areas it will spread like wildfire. Look at NYC compared to some podunk county in TN percentage-wise. When people are stacked on one another the spread will be rampant.
Agree.
Difficult to imagine how NYC and surrounding areas get back to work anytime soon without crowded public transport. 'Social distancing' doesn't seem like a solution in New York's subway system. Even in less crowded areas of the country there's working conditions where people are close together such as meat processing operations that have shut down due to corona illnesses. 'Telecommuting' isn't a solution for everyone.
Business_Casual
04-18-20, 13:03
China could be in for a big problem. I doubt that even they know the scale of the problem they have caused for themselves. All debts are paid.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Xi-fears-Japan-led-manufacturing-exodus-from-China?fbclid=IwAR1SGa-VJGR-fUY8t04cnXSTaxQbUv9u_SCsUIYiQDEGRZkxvB1uiragWoA
China could be in for a big problem. I doubt that even they know the scale of the problem they have caused for themselves. All debts are paid.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Xi-fears-Japan-led-manufacturing-exodus-from-China?fbclid=IwAR1SGa-VJGR-fUY8t04cnXSTaxQbUv9u_SCsUIYiQDEGRZkxvB1uiragWoA
The big question will be whether China lashes out in anger and frustration as they watch their economy and World standing crumble.
Business_Casual
04-18-20, 14:08
The big question will be whether China lashes out in anger and frustration as they watch their economy and World standing crumble.
Sadam Hussein has the world’s second largest army but they couldn’t maneuver above the battalion level. They were done in 100 hours. I take your point, but what major theatre have the Chinese operated in that was hot? I’m not diminishing the threat, I’m questioning what their actual capabilities are. A missle strike on Taiwan? Are their ICBMs accurate now? I don’t know.
In metropolis areas it will spread like wildfire. Look at NYC compared to some podunk county in TN percentage-wise. When people are stacked on one another the spread will be rampant.
The surprisingly admitted-to resurgence in China is concerning, if it ever went away in the first place.
Since Wuhan is bigger and more dense than NYC, is a major international and domestic travel hub, I still can't help but wonder what the real numbers are for China. Their cities combined with their cultural attributes kind of make them a perfect breeding ground for disease to spread like wildfire. It has happened regularly throughout history, except apparently for this once. I'm not buying it.
Since Wuhan is bigger and more dense than NYC, is a major international and domestic travel hub, I still can't help but wonder what the real numbers are for China. Their cities combined with their cultural attributes kind of make them a perfect breeding ground for disease to spread like wildfire. It has happened regularly throughout history, except apparently for this once. I'm not buying it.
According to this vid it could be in the millions. Skip to 3:19 to avoid the ads
https://youtu.be/z9jHI411K9s?t=199
ChattanoogaPhil
04-18-20, 16:03
I doubt there's going to be a Rocky IV moment where the Chinese Politburo stands and applauds Trump for knocking out COVID-19.
Since Wuhan is bigger and more dense than NYC, is a major international and domestic travel hub, I still can't help but wonder what the real numbers are for China. Their cities combined with their cultural attributes kind of make them a perfect breeding ground for disease to spread like wildfire. It has happened regularly throughout history, except apparently for this once. I'm not buying it.
VERY good points! I laugh because Wuhan is a "medium sized" Chinese city with 11 million people. Our largest city is NYC with 8.1 million! With the way NYC has been ate up with this I can't imagine the ChiCom numbers are anywhere near true.
According to this vid it could be in the millions.
I don't know if I'd say millions, but certainly several hundred thousand, maybe approaching one million. Millions of deaths from this virus would be hard for even a closed society like China to hide. In the 1950's or 1960's, sure, they'd get away with it. But in 2020 with the communication technology on Earth now? Doubt it.
I don't know if I'd say millions, but certainly several hundred thousand, maybe approaching one million. Millions of deaths from this virus would be hard for even a closed society like China to hide. In the 1950's or 1960's, sure, they'd get away with it. But in 2020 with the communication technology on Earth now? Doubt it.
I dunno, they pretty well blacked out the entire world during Tienanmen Square. They have a virtual stranglehold on communications technology and you won't find many "whistle blowers" in China. They are all too busy making iphones and nikes at political reeducation camps.
I believe this to me the end truth on this event.
It may not have been an intentional release, but it happened, then it gained speed. I believe the Chinese were on to it and decided to use this as a way to gain ground in an economic losing battle.
As a strategy, it's irresponsible and borders on insane, but to have this dropped in your lap as a leader and still come out better is brilliant.
Mentally I've been trying to determine how much this situation would be different if it -had- been a bio-weapon attack.
Assume the prospective weapon was a pathogen that: spread readily, showed indefinite symptoms (only after the carrier was contagious), produced a (relatively) high mortality rate, and for which we currently had no remedy.
I'm not clear how the US would have improved its response to the situation: shut down travel and keep people from mingling while identifying the pathogen. What would we have done differently?
One major difference would be how the pathogen would be delivered to the target. Patient-zero wouldn't be halfway across the world, it (actually they) would be sent here and probably create several 'spontaneous' outbreaks in our major cities. It would have spread geometrically until we recognized what we were dealing with. I'd speculate that the number of cases would be worse than what we are facing today.
Also we had some warning that the bug was loose and, even though the information was delayed and incomplete, Chinese scientists did publish some important details before the CCP started shutting down communication. If it were a deliberate attack I don't think we would have even that. One thing the Chinese do value is their reputation and I'm not surprised that they tried to cover up another potential epidemic that would be attributed to their country. Probably more out of saving face than an intricately planned out economic collapse that it became.
So, just speculating, but for me it suggests this was not a deliberate, competent attack by China. I think it would have played out differently
The problem is much bigger than Mainland China.
CCP owns multiples of US lawmakers, both at the state and federal level. They are furiously anti-American and anti-2A.
Among these wolves in sheep’s clothing in CA, are:
Judy Chu
Ted Lieu
Phil Ting
Leland Yee (now in Federal prison)
The list goes on and on.
CA is increasingly under the thumb of CCP.
But believe whatever you want.
ChiComs are the biggest danger to the future of the world.
They are everywhere, in Africa they buy off the political leadership and then bury the country in debit welcome to colonialism 2020.
Business_Casual
04-19-20, 06:36
ChiComs are the biggest danger to the future of the world.
They are everywhere, in Africa they buy off the political leadership and then bury the country in debit welcome to colonialism 2020.
Belt and Road.
I dunno, they pretty well blacked out the entire world during Tienanmen Square. They have a virtual stranglehold on communications technology and you won't find many "whistle blowers" in China. They are all too busy making iphones and nikes at political reeducation camps.
To be fair that was 31 years ago. Cell phones didn't even exist. You really think they could cover up millions of deaths? I think that in 2020 that would be a tall order for even the ChiComs.
hotrodder636
04-19-20, 09:33
I find it funny that we (the collective, not necessarily those on this forum) have come back around to this being an engineered virus.
I am most curious about Sweden and Denmark. Are they the cases showing us that the response in much of the world was an over reaction?
Averageman
04-19-20, 10:16
To be fair that was 31 years ago. Cell phones didn't even exist. You really think they could cover up millions of deaths? I think that in 2020 that would be a tall order for even the ChiComs.
I believe that I have read 3 million cell phones went dead, accounts no longer active during this event in China.
So, why would 3 million accounts drop in the middle of a medical emergency of this magnitude?
I believe that I have read 3 million cell phones went dead, accounts no longer active during this event in China.
So, why would 3 million accounts drop in the middle of a medical emergency of this magnitude?
Maybe the ChiComs shut them off in quarantined areas to control information coming out of there? I dunno. The flip side is that if those are all dead people now then ultimately it couldn't be totally hidden, i.e. there is a techno footprint of sorts.
The number of deaths as of today in Sweden is 1,540.
The number of deaths as of today in Denmark is 355.
Number of cases in Sweden is 14,385.
Number of cases in Denmark is 7,384.
So it appears that Sweden is getting hammered compared to Denmark
The number of deaths as of today in Sweden is 1,540.
The number of deaths as of today in Denmark is 355.
Number of cases in Sweden is 14,385.
Number of cases in Denmark is 7,384.
So it appears that Sweden is getting hammered compared to Denmark
Do you have a number of how many were tested? That's the issue with these statistics, there needs to be some uniformity of data collection. It is interesting, however, how this whole thing kills a higher percentage in some geographical areas vs. others.
Just did a little of my own research. First, Sweden is far behind Denmark in testing per 100,000 people AND Sweden includes ANY death that tested positive for Covid 19 as a Covid 19 death. That really skews the numbers and makes it way more difficult to compare two countries.
To be fair that was 31 years ago. Cell phones didn't even exist. You really think they could cover up millions of deaths? I think that in 2020 that would be a tall order for even the ChiComs.
Not when they control the cell towers and the entire cell phone infrastructure.
Not when they control the cell towers and the entire cell phone infrastructure.
Precisely. Only two companies control ALL the internet and cell service in my area. Plenty of places like that in the U.S. Shutting down communications in this country would be simple, even more so in totalitarian regimes.
Precisely. Only two companies control ALL the internet and cell service in my area. Plenty of places like that in the U.S. Shutting down communications in this country would be simple, even more so in totalitarian regimes.
Yep, even if people had Sat phones, I'm sure China has adequate technology to block the signal. The government of China is basically up on every single phone in China and they have been for probably a decade. It will be a government service provider that activates (and monitors) your phone in China and rogue phones will ping their radar instantly.
People think the UK is a surveillance state, England has nothing on China.
They are everywhere, in Africa they buy off the political leadership and then bury the country in debit welcome to colonialism 2020.
You’re right on...
...but had to read it twice to focus on the ChiCom part and not think about what’s happening here with farmers and Big Chicken (Tyson, etc.) lol.
teufelhund1918
04-20-20, 06:09
ChiComs are the biggest danger to the future of the world.
They are everywhere, in Africa they buy off the political leadership and then bury the country in debit welcome to colonialism 2020.
And they are working their way into South and Central America through controlling interests in the port cities and I believe they have some sort of controlling interest in the Panama Canal don't they? I believe there is a lot of dissent in China with their government, but any dissent is quickly quashed and the people "disappeared" into the prison system. I despise the chinese government because of their treatment of their citizens. There should have been a stance against them along time ago based on this, but the world has turned a blind eye to them for some reason... I think for their cheap goods. Real case of profit over people. I would like to see how many of our politicians besides Biden have done dirty deals with the chinese. We have been sold out by our politicians too. It is a shame. The debt that our country... and others.. have incurred with china buying it has made our politicians slaves to their will. We are at the point now that china needs dealt with harshly for their actions or we will be under their thumb totally in the future.
OK I went out and stocked up on beef and chicken.
But if the country runs out, and I run out in about a month, with packing plants being shut down due to Corona.
I will only vote for the person that I think will nuke the hell out of china.
OK I went out and stocked up on beef and chicken.
But if the country runs out, and I run out in about a month, with packing plants being shut down due to Corona.
I will only vote for the person that I think will nuke the hell out of china.
There have been comments from packing plants that they have several months of supply in freezers already. The closing of restaurants in much of the country produced a glut of meat that had to go somewhere. We certainly will see. I have enough meat in my freezer to last a year due to being in great state with many fishing and hunting opportunities.
There have been comments from packing plants that they have several months of supply in freezers already. The closing of restaurants in much of the country produced a glut of meat that had to go somewhere. We certainly will see. I have enough meat in my freezer to last a year due to being in great state with many fishing and hunting opportunities.
I've got plenty of beef and game meat in the freezer. More on the hoof if I need it, ain't worth selling cattle at current prices. Only half decent money right now is selling wholes or halves to locals and hooking them up with a local cutter. If anyone gets worried about meat hook up with someone local to you and do it that way, even if you gave to split up a halve with friends/neighbors.
So if all is good on the meat front, I will not have to buy any meat or chicken for 2 months. No big deal.
I've got plenty of beef and game meat in the freezer. More on the hoof if I need it, ain't worth selling cattle at current prices. Only half decent money right now is selling wholes or halves to locals and hooking them up with a local cutter. If anyone gets worried about meat hook up with someone local to you and do it that way, even if you gave to split up a halve with friends/neighbors.
We split a half with a friend last year. The meat is great and the only thing that we will do differently this year is some of the packaging. We should have done this when our kids were still at home.
Costco yesterday was completely out of pork and chicken was 1 per customer but you had to ask for it. Oddly enough also out of fish.
Local supermarket had chicken breasts value pack but only 2 packs per customer. But there was whole chicken and turkey.
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