Pepper spray / bear spray

[Devildawg2531]

I'm looking for whats the best pepper spray / OC that my 16 year old daughter can carry on her key chain. I have no experience with this stuff other than gas in the Marine's... recommendations on type / brand?

Thanks!

[signal4l]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008VOS824?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I purchased this stuff for family members. Very potent. Contains green dye. Makes it easier for cops to identify the offender.

Make sure she replaces the can annually. This one might be a bit big for keychain carry. The Fox brand was popular with LE agencies back in the pre Taser days.

[WillBrink]

I'm looking for whats the best pepper spray / OC that my 16 year old daughter can carry on her key chain. I have no experience with this stuff other than gas in the Marine's... recommendations on type / brand?

Thanks!

Far as I know, two trusted brands used by LE etc, are still Fix Labs and Saber Red. I suspect Fox has the edge ...

[Wake27]

I like POM. Its the only one I've been able to get my wife to carry and it looks very discreet. Plus it has a better safety than many of the others I've seen.

[signal4l]

I like POM. Its the only one I've been able to get my wife to carry and it looks very discreet. Plus it has a better safety than many of the others I've seen.

Having a can with a good safety is important. You need to be careful with the Fox Lab canisters. If a key, coin or other item gets wedged under the button it can discharge.

[26 Inf]

I'm looking for whats the best pepper spray / OC that my 16 year old daughter can carry on her key chain. I have no experience with this stuff other than gas in the Marine's... recommendations on type / brand?

Thanks!

Former OC/Chem Agents instructor here. There are numerous things to consider when choosing an OC projector.

The first, IMO. is spray pattern. The three types are 1) streamers - just like it says - the OC comes out in a steady stream, generally the range is 12 to 15 feet; 2) mist/fog pattern - a cone shaped mist pattern, generally range is 6 to 8 feet; 3) foam - the oc is contained in a foam that adheres to the face/area struck.

OC is a solid particulate that is suspended in a solvent/carrier, generally either oil or alcohol. For OC to work effectively, particles must have direct contact with the eyes or respiratory tract - OC doesn't vaporize and drift through the air as a chemical agent does - the particles have to have direct contact.

Based on that description, it would seem that the fog/mist would be a good choice. However, the problem with the cone shaped pattern is two-fold 1) there is a better chance of the user or bystanders getting contaminated; 2) the fog/mist are more disrupted by wind, lessening effectiveness.

(I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT AT THE SHOP - FINISH LATER)

Generally, I would go with a streamer versus a cone.

The next consideration, IMO is size. OC deployment is not a little 'pssst' and done. Once again, you need the OC to contact the eyes and the respiratory tract. You will need to spray the person for several seconds in order to assure a reasonable degree of incapacitation.

Realistically, a key chain device is not going to be small enough for pocket carry, it is a purse deal.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/3-1-key-case-pepper-spray-quick-release-key-ring

Folks need to practice, so hit the practice spray button when you order.

Actually the training videos on that sight are okay - things I would consider deviating from 1) 2 to 3 seconds on target; 2) Sneak attack - do not display spray - with the sabre product, this means you have to practice moving the lever 'off safe' to the 'fire' position while concealed alongside your leg, in a purse, etc. Do not let the offender see the canister before you spray, they will often close eyes, duck head and charge. Surprise them. The best results are to get them while they are talking so there is a better chance of respiratory effects. This, of course, may mean being able to articulate why you felt it was necessary to use force w/o a warning.

In one snippet the guy compared the offender to a train coming at you and you need to get off the tracks - move after you spray. Ideally unass the area. If the assault took place in a parking garage either get into the car and leave (may not be possible - guy may be mobile) or run to a place of safety. Most folks don't curl up in a little ball and cry for mommy when they've been sprayed, you've merely temporarily degraded their vision, don't hang around until they've figured out they can open their eyes. Get out of Dodge.

[Smash]

I keep a fox labs fog grenade in the truck. I put it in there when the "road block protests" were getting big around DFW.

As far as the key chain carry, a can the size of a tylenol bottle actually has quite a bit of volume.

I would say with OC from experience; When you use it, everyone is likely to get some residual. Wouldnt be a bad idea to get some on a paper towel and rub on the skin at a minimum to show what the pain/irritation would be.

Sprays have more distance and splash than the foam. Splash and running down because of sweat isn't the worst. If you're worried about bystanders, I would ask why are they so close to the target if they're not involved or why are they not helping her or running away as well.

[SeriousStudent]

I keep a fox labs fog grenade in the truck. ........

Those. Are. Awesome.

The two ounce and five ounce ones are really nice. Nothing says "Git offa my lawn!" like a cloud of liquid hatred.

They are about 30 bucks a pop, but very useful when you need to do a Reebok Retreat. :cool:

[26 Inf]

Sprays have more distance and splash than the foam. Splash and running down because of sweat isn't the worst. If you're worried about bystanders, I would ask why are they so close to the target if they're not involved or why are they not helping her or running away as well.

Not sure what you meant by the bolded.

With foam if the dude is wearing glasses you may not get any eye contamination. Or, if you don't put some foam in the eye he may be able to wipe it away quick.

With a streamer, just drench their forehead until it runs down into their eyes.

[Devildawg2531]

Former OC/Chem Agents instructor here. There are numerous things to consider when choosing an OC projector.

The first, IMO. is spray pattern. The three types are 1) streamers - just like it says - the OC comes out in a steady stream, generally the range is 12 to 15 feet; 2) mist/fog pattern - a cone shaped mist pattern, generally range is 6 to 8 feet; 3) foam - the oc is contained in a foam that adheres to the face/area struck.

OC is a solid particulate that is suspended in a solvent/carrier, generally either oil or alcohol. For OC to work effectively, particles must have direct contact with the eyes or respiratory tract - OC doesn't vaporize and drift through the air as a chemical agent does - the particles have to have direct contact.

Based on that description, it would seem that the fog/mist would be a good choice. However, the problem with the cone shaped pattern is two-fold 1) there is a better chance of the user or bystanders getting contaminated; 2) the fog/mist are more disrupted by wind, lessening effectiveness.

(I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT AT THE SHOP - FINISH LATER)

Generally, I would go with a streamer versus a cone.

The next consideration, IMO is size. OC deployment is not a little 'pssst' and done. Once again, you need the OC to contact the eyes and the respiratory tract. You will need to spray the person for several seconds in order to assure a reasonable degree of incapacitation.

Realistically, a key chain device is not going to be small enough for pocket carry, it is a purse deal.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/3-1-key-case-pepper-spray-quick-release-key-ring

Folks need to practice, so hit the practice spray button when you order.

Actually the training videos on that sight are okay - things I would consider deviating from 1) 2 to 3 seconds on target; 2) Sneak attack - do not display spray - with the sabre product, this means you have to practice moving the lever 'off safe' to the 'fire' position while concealed alongside your leg, in a purse, etc. Do not let the offender see the canister before you spray, they will often close eyes, duck head and charge. Surprise them. The best results are to get them while they are talking so there is a better chance of respiratory effects. This, of course, may mean being able to articulate why you felt it was necessary to use force w/o a warning.

In one snippet the guy compared the offender to a train coming at you and you need to get off the tracks - move after you spray. Ideally unass the area. If the assault took place in a parking garage either get into the car and leave (may not be possible - guy may be mobile) or run to a place of safety. Most folks don't curl up in a little ball and cry for mommy when they've been sprayed, you've merely temporarily degraded their vision, don't hang around until they've figured out they can open their eyes. Get out of Dodge.

Tons of great info here. Very much appreciated.

[Smash]

Not sure what you meant by the bolded.

With foam if the dude is wearing glasses you may not get any eye contamination. Or, if you don't put some foam in the eye he may be able to wipe it away quick.

With a streamer, just drench their forehead until it runs down into their eyes.

Basically, saying that the sprays mixing with sweat help achieve what you're talking about in your bolded line above. I am saying the sprays are advantageous over the foam in my opinion.

[26 Inf]

Thanks, Smash. Sorry I didn't understand what you meant.

[JediGuy]

Pardon a slight threadjack, but does anyone know if the Fox Labs fog grenades fit within say a BFG frag pouch?

[Smash]

Pardon a slight threadjack, but does anyone know if the Fox Labs fog grenades fit within say a BFG frag pouch?

I dont have a BFG Frag pouch. I have a First Spear Bang pouch which also fits 40mm gas and less lethal rounds and the Fox Grenade fits the FS Pouch. I could post measurements or a comparison photo with another item if needed.

[JediGuy]

Thanks, Smash. Eyeballing it, it looks like the frag pouch would be small, but knowing a bang pouch holds 40mm and the fog grenade both is probably enough. I may play around with some stuff. Thanks for the info.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Based on the suggestion of a friend of mine much more versed on the topic, I'm looking into Fox Labs Mean Green

[teufelhund1918]

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/sabre-red-133-mc-39-oz-phantom-evaporating-fog-delivery-mk-4

I can speak from several first hand experiences that this $#!t is evil when compared to other OC sprays I've been in. When we first started using it, it was like hitting a literal wall. Immediate throat clench, eye shutting, panic reaction, etc. Even after you get out of it, it continues to burn. I've had it bad enough that I had skin burn for a couple days afterwards.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/tactical-pepper-gel-flip-top-belt-holster

Personally, I prefer a gel spray. Less chance of it blowing back into your face than a fog. I've seen that happen on a few occasions when officers sprayed outside and it blew back into their faces. It also sticks to a purp's face making it difficult/impossible to get out of it and giving you more of a chance to escape/defend yourself other ways.

You don't have to hit directly in the facial area for any pepper spray/foam/gel to work. If you get them on the chest area, it is still going to be effective.

[El Vaquero]

Interesting. We use Sabre Red Gel at work and about a year ago while fighting a guy my partner sprayed me dead in the face...twice. It hurt and I stopped fighting but it wore off fairly quickly (10 minutes) and I was good to go again. I’ve always considered myself fairly sensitive to OC.

I remember even thinking at the time, I felt I could fight on if I needed to immediately after getting sprayed. I’ve never been a fan of OC on the job because; 1) you usually spray everyone else and 2) It’s not very effective on drunk and high people who are generally the ones that fight.

Having said all that, OC works differently on folks and at the end of the day I’d rather have it than have nothing at all.

Several years back I purchased for my wife some OC made by ASP that was made for key rings. I did purchase the inert inserts to use for training. Good idea to get the training companion inserts.

For awhile we used some by Fox and that was some good shit. One recruit in the academy had to go to the hospital it made his eyes and face swell up so bad.

[26 Inf]

You don't have to hit directly in the facial area for any pepper spray/foam/gel to work. If you get them on the chest area, it is still going to be effective.

You are mistaken. Compared to particles of CN and CS (chemical agents) the organic OC particles are huge. They drop quickly and tend to stay in place. Unless you have direct contact with the particles in the eyes or respiratory tract - as in walking through a fog, or being sprayed in those areas, the OC will have little or no effect.

Unless you are using OC with a CN or CS kicker, the spray on the chest isn't going to do much of anything at all - I used to glove up, spray OC into the gloves and rub OC up and down my arms in front of classes and deliver the chemical agent lecture - to emphasize this fact.

ETA: For skin symptoms - milk and heavy cream seem to work, I've had students who dumped whole gallons of milk into their eyes.

[teufelhund1918]

You are mistaken. Compared to particles of CN and CS (chemical agents) the organic OC particles are huge. They drop quickly and tend to stay in place. Unless you have direct contact with the particles in the eyes or respiratory tract - as in walking through a fog, or being sprayed in those areas, the OC will have little or no effect.

Unless you are using OC with a CN or CS kicker, the spray on the chest isn't going to do much of anything at all - I used to glove up, spray OC into the gloves and rub OC up and down my arms in front of classes and deliver the chemical agent lecture - to emphasize this fact.

ETA: For skin symptoms - milk and heavy cream seem to work, I've had students who dumped whole gallons of milk into their eyes.

I'm sorry, I'm not mistaken and yes, you are correct about having to have contact with the particles to be effective. Speaking from several years of experience with it in pepper ball form and spray/fog from several different dispensers types. You don't always have a direct shot into someone's face. An indirect shot onto the torso is effective. Particulates become airborne from their clothing from movement. Indirect shots can also work on barricaded individuals by hitting objects or walls. Once it is dispensed, some of it remains airborne. You can still tell that CS was used in that area for hours afterwards. Escorting people who have it on them also affects the people doing the escort. People have tried the milk and some wipes that the vendors sell that is suppose to neutralized it along with flushing with water, but the only thing that really works for decontamination is time.

[26 Inf]

I'm sorry, I'm not mistaken and yes, you are correct about having to have contact with the particles to be effective.

Point being, telling someone that spraying an assailant on the shirt/chest with a personal aerosol irritant projector containing OC will lead to rapid incapacitation is irresponsible in the majority of cases.