View Full Version : Guns in hot cars
So, with the way things are going, I’ve decided to change some things. Most notably, carrying to and from work. However, I’m unable to carry inside the building, and therefore must leave my pistol in the car.
My state sees extreme temperature, and temperature swings, and the inside of a car can get mid triple digits. So, my question is what effect does this have on the cycling of the gun? I’m not worried about ammo “cooking off”, but rather if the cases themselves could expand to the point of causing issues chambering a round.
I know there are tons of people here with real-world “for keeps” experience with this, so if it’s a stupid question, well I guess let me have it. [emoji846]
Also, yes I know having to disarm is BS. I know they make pocket shit I might could get away with. It’s a business decision. I feel the odds are greater that I’d get caught and they’d fire my ass, than the odds of me needing to unscrew a pistol at work.
Search returned nothing for me.
Thanks gents
Change the ammo out once a year, which you should anyway, at a minimum.
Nothing else to worry about. A little more oil will run out.
Keep it out of the sun, obviously. The sun messes up polymers.
Change the ammo out once a year, which you should anyway, at a minimum.
Nothing else to worry about. A little more oil will run out.
Keep it out of the sun, obviously. The sun messes up polymers.
Yeah I’m pretty religious with the ammo, learned my lesson on that in the past. Was just more concerned that the ammo in the mag could possibly expand and cause an issue.
Thanks for the reply.
Keeping it in the right location will keep it cool.
In the center console with a light-colored cloth over the console, and cracked windows will keep the temperature the gun is exposed to very low... like under 130F.
I am in the same position as the OP. I live in the sunny south and have never had an issue with a pistol being left in the glovebox. During the summer I do put a sunshade in the windshield and my windows are tinted so that does help keep the interior temperature a little lower.
Leaveammoforme
04-23-20, 19:15
Well I'm bored so let's do ammo heat science....kind of.
Unprimed once fired Winchester cases. 230 FMJs seated to 1.250". Left and center crimped to .469" (my standard go to). Right crimped to .466". Then install drywall screws for projectile constant pull force rig.
https://i.imgur.com/XBPtULp.jpg
Apply heat to see if projectiles move at a temp high enough to be too hot to handle but not hot enough for a cook off.
https://youtu.be/7iyzQexlX3k
Hard to get a rectal temp but I believe I saw a 268. While the projectiles w/469 crimps didn't pull, I did push them into the cases fairly easy.
466 crimp projectile wouldn't easily push into case. Also passed a "plop" test in a G21 barrel.
Removed projectile with kinetic puller, no visible crimp damage.
https://i.imgur.com/9uWiazN.jpg
Conclusion -
Heat not high enough to cook a round off will have no effect on base measurements given ammo is in spec.
It's all about the crimp and I've been undercrimping my reloads. Measured some Federal HST and Winchester Silvertips. Both were around 467 on the crimp.
Worse ways to waste the afternoon I guess. Yay science.
When I first saw the title of this thread, I kind of figured it would be a discussion of the latest Ghetto Rap song: "Guns in Hot Cars", being belted out by some urban youth with a gold grill, ball cap on sideways and some weird hand gesticulations. I am disappointed.
But to enter the discussion as intended, I rarely leave the sidearm in the vehicle for extended periods of time anyway. The truck is not a storage unit. If I have a pistol with me, it stays with me. Just habit.
When I first saw the title of this thread, I kind of figured it would be a discussion of the latest Ghetto Rap song: "Guns in Hot Cars", being belted out by some urban youth with a gold grill, ball cap on sideways and some weird hand gesticulations. I am disappointed.
But to enter the discussion as intended, I rarely leave the sidearm in the vehicle for extended periods of time anyway. The truck is not a storage unit. If I have a pistol with me, it stays with me. Just habit.
I too had something else in mind. I was picturing photos of old school muscle cars with firearms from corresponding production years. That would be a cool thread!
I live in AZ and the car gets into the 150's easy. I keep mine in the passenger back seat pocket. Note: mine is easy access in emergency and I have had my car broken into but they missed the gun, not a bad place to stash. I shoot mine every 6 months to a year to cycle through the ammo. But watch out for your holsters, they will cook into shit. And they get hot to drop in your pants when walking into a mall......
PB
Keeping it in the right location will keep it cool.
In the center console with a light-colored cloth over the console, and cracked windows will keep the temperature the gun is exposed to very low... like under 130F.
Thanks. I may try this, but not crazy about keeping the windows cracked.
I am in the same position as the OP. I live in the sunny south and have never had an issue with a pistol being left in the glovebox. During the summer I do put a sunshade in the windshield and my windows are tinted so that does help keep the interior temperature a little lower.
My windows are pretty dark already, but the car itself is black. Hadn’t thought of the sunshade, might just try that route.
Well I'm bored so let's do ammo heat science....kind of.
Unprimed once fired Winchester cases. 230 FMJs seated to 1.250". Left and center crimped to .469" (my standard go to). Right crimped to .466". Then install drywall screws for projectile constant pull force rig.
https://i.imgur.com/XBPtULp.jpg
Apply heat to see if projectiles move at a temp high enough to be too hot to handle but not hot enough for a cook off.
https://youtu.be/7iyzQexlX3k
Hard to get a rectal temp but I believe I saw a 268. While the projectiles w/469 crimps didn't pull, I did push them into the cases fairly easy.
466 crimp projectile wouldn't easily push into case. Also passed a "plop" test in a G21 barrel.
Removed projectile with kinetic puller, no visible crimp damage.
https://i.imgur.com/9uWiazN.jpg
Conclusion -
Heat not high enough to cook a round off will have no effect on base measurements given ammo is in spec.
It's all about the crimp and I've been undercrimping my reloads. Measured some Federal HST and Winchester Silvertips. Both were around 467 on the crimp.
Worse ways to waste the afternoon I guess. Yay science.
Wow, science indeed. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Puts my mind more at ease.
When I first saw the title of this thread, I kind of figured it would be a discussion of the latest Ghetto Rap song: "Guns in Hot Cars", being belted out by some urban youth with a gold grill, ball cap on sideways and some weird hand gesticulations. I am disappointed.
But to enter the discussion as intended, I rarely leave the sidearm in the vehicle for extended periods of time anyway. The truck is not a storage unit. If I have a pistol with me, it stays with me. Just habit.
Your knowledge of contemporary Rap music, combined with the ability to work in the word “gesticulations”, (and from a working ranch in the desert no less) is impressive. It’s also one of the reasons you’re among my favorite posters here.
And, I’m with you on the car/gun storage. It’s why I’ve never had to consider this before. But, like I said in the OP, things are changing and I just want to know what I don’t know, preferably not learning it the hard way.
I too had something else in mind. I was picturing photos of old school muscle cars with firearms from corresponding production years. That would be a cool thread!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/e62c9db4aca5bf1bfffcd1fdd7f89fcc.jpg
Best I can do. Not a classic, but it is a car and like I stated, it does get very hot in summer[emoji846]
I live in AZ and the car gets into the 150's easy. I keep mine in the passenger back seat pocket. Note: mine is easy access in emergency and I have had my car broken into but they missed the gun, not a bad place to stash. I shoot mine every 6 months to a year to cycle through the ammo. But watch out for your holsters, they will cook into shit. And they get hot to drop in your pants when walking into a mall......
PB
You know, I hadn’t considered the kydex holster in the equation. That’s a good point. I’m not crazy about all-leather holsters but may need to be an option on this one. I do have a DeSantis for it.
Thanks for all the replies guys. I appreciate it
It seems a bit silly, but may work. Have you considered using a cheap cooler from Walmart or Target with an ice pack or two in the trunk?
If you put the pistol/ holster inside of a bag or guncase that could mitigate the heat effectively.
P.S. I have the same car and it gets pretty hot inside on a warm Southern California day. I have no problem leaving a Glock, HK, or Smith revolver in the trunk if it's necessary. I seriously doubt the heat should effect the weapon or ammunition.
It seems a bit silly, but may work. Have you considered using a cheap cooler from Walmart or Target with an ice pack or two in the trunk?
If you put the pistol/ holster inside of a bag or guncase that could mitigate the heat effectively.
P.S. I have the same car and it gets pretty hot inside on a warm Southern California day. I have no problem leaving a Glock, HK, or Smith revolver in the trunk if it's necessary. I seriously doubt the heat should effect the weapon or ammunition.
I had read somewhere that some people use coolers. Not for the ammo issue, but rather for temperature swings and humidity rusting the gun IIRC. I don’t think ice was used though.
Non-issue. Rotate your ammo every ~6mo.
I would be careful about leaving a handgun in a Kydex holster in a hot car for extended periods of time. A pistol rug might be the way to go when storing the handgun.
If the handgun gets three digit hot, I'll bet it's no fun to handle when you pick up the handgun to holster before the drive home from work. Inside the belt carry might be a little uncomfortable.
Just like anyone else, I have polymer framed weapons, and polymer bodied magazines. I am guessing there have been studies which examine extreme heat for extended periods of time on these polymers, and does it reduce the life or integrity of those materials? If the vehicle is cooking on the inside at 150 degrees for days or months, what's the effect on polymer?
I am not sure how much of an issue it really is but I like the idea of a cooler with some blue ice blocks in it if your really worried.
I have never had a heat issue with guns, and I have been in some hot places.
sundance435
04-24-20, 09:34
I suspect a lot of LE duty ammo is subjected to the same extremes or more without getting switched out regularly and even though the manufacturer won't warrant it to function in those situations, it's expected that it will. That said, shooting the loaded ammo once or twice a year is cheap insurance. When I was in LE guys were carrying duty ammo that was years old because they were too cheap to buy new stuff. Anecdotally, rangemasters would say to shoot through your duty ammo once a year, but they'd never really seen problems with guys who went longer than that. I've seen, on several occasions, duty ammo that had turned green with gunk and corrosion that still fired reliably.
I live somewhere with extremes both ways in temperatures and I've always had a polymer gun in my vehicle, usually in leather, but sometimes in kydex. I just try to shoot the loaded ammo at least once a year. Never had any misfires or anything going that route. I've gone even longer than that in the past and didn't have any issues. We had -10-20 degree days for weeks in a row and I requal'd for CCW during that time. I don't recall how long the ammo had been in there before that, but definitely at least 1 really hot summer. No issues at all. For heat extremes, I do at least try to park in shade or partial shade when possible on hot summer days, though, just for peace of mind.
While the kydex may be more susceptible to warping, I think the grade of polymer used for the guns we're carrying would have to be exposed to temps far higher than 150 for extended periods. The polymer near the barrel and rails gets far hotter than that when shooting, anyway.
P2Vaircrewman
04-24-20, 10:08
I don't keep guns in the car but I do keep loaded practice AR and Glock 19 mags, both OEM and Magpul in my Suburban 24/7 365. I have a private range about 3 miles from the house so I keep the mags in the car with my other gear if I get the urge to go shoot. I live in south Louisiana so it is hot. Been doing this for years and have not had any mag or ammo issues. Ammo gets used up every one to two months. Carry ammo is either on me or in the house.
Thanks guys.
I think my main takeaway is the kydex holster. Not sure why I didn’t lock in on that, forest for the trees I guess.
As far as the polymer gun itself, I don’t know how long it will last, but these types of weapons have been around forever so I’d assume it’ll be ok or I’d have read something to the contrary by now...at least regular anecdotes?
Anyway, not too concerned about the gun itself, I exercise it and keep it lubed. If I see anything going south on it, well it’s a shield. Not exactly hard to come by another.
Again, thanks for the replies.
Maybe time for another acronym.... CICF
ramairthree
04-26-20, 12:33
Despite being of the cold, mountainous regions where real men come from,
Over half my life has been stationed or deployed where it can be even colder or way, way hotter.
I have not had issues with ammo or firearms in extremely hot, like hot enough to explode windows on occasion in a parked vehicles hot.
Some members here have probably experienced that as well.
In very hot, super humid environments, I have had stuff corrode faster than normal but still function fine.
I have similar questions about polymers long term.
I have seen cars with the same parts and same conditions end up fine, but others have meaty, sticky plastic parts, and others have normal, and others have dry, and crumbling.
Like literally the same models next to each other in a junkyard for 40 years.
My oldest polymer gun is a G19 I bought about 27 years ago.
In 20 more years will it be the same, sticky mushy, or dry crumbly?
Despite being of the cold, mountainous regions where real men come from,
Over half my life has been stationed or deployed where it can be even colder or way, way hotter.
I have not had issues with ammo or firearms in extremely hot, like hot enough to explode windows on occasion in a parked vehicles hot.
Some members here have probably experienced that as well.
In very hot, super humid environments, I have had stuff corrode faster than normal but still function fine.
I have similar questions about polymers long term.
I have seen cars with the same parts and same conditions end up fine, but others have meaty, sticky plastic parts, and others have normal, and others have dry, and crumbling.
Like literally the same models next to each other in a junkyard for 40 years.
My oldest polymer gun is a G19 I bought about 27 years ago.
In 20 more years will it be the same, sticky mushy, or dry crumbly?
If you left it in direct sunlight alot, yes. Sunlight kills polymers, eventually.
ThirdWatcher
04-27-20, 06:49
Long guns are left in Police cars loaded with no ill effect (that I’ve ever seen). Not a bad idea to replace your ammo routinely anyway.
sundance435
04-27-20, 09:24
Long guns are left in Police cars loaded with no ill effect (that I’ve ever seen). Not a bad idea to replace your ammo routinely anyway.
Back when we had mostly shotguns, I don’t recall those things ever coming out of the car, even for qual. I bought an old 870 from an area PD about 10 years ago. Wood was beat to shit, but I doubt it had more than 50 rounds through it judging from the inside. I’ve shot 50 year old shotgun shells, stored god knows where, with no problems, both paper and plastic.
Edit to add: If you’re really worried about ammo, the East Bloc corrosive surplus is about as long-term as you can find for rifles. They’ll be shooting 1945 vintage x54R in 2045 that I’d bet would still go bang.
1_click_off
04-29-20, 06:52
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Automotive-Window-Film-Crystalline-Series/?N=5002385+3290229310&rt=rud
This stuff is no joke. Biggest advantage of it is you can get clear and place it on the windshield.
Another simple trick is to get stuff lower. You would be amazed at how cool something will stay if you place in on the rear floor board with a decent jacket over it.
I have kept a G19 in a kydex holster daily locked under my seat for years in SoCA with no issues. Spare Kydex left for years in covered rear SUV storage also show no issues. Spare Magpul AR mags also seem fine and ammo shot for groups and mag dumps after years were all good.
On a side note MREs kept for 2+ years in rear covered storage tasted fine too!
That said my SUV is white and I would recommend switching ammo and MREs at least yearly [emoji6]
I did read a Pat Rogers story once about NYPD ESU Mini 14s that literally banged around in their trucks metal drawers for years that affected both the weapon zero and the ammo which led me to test my stored AR ammo for groups. I would guess being well secured is a good thing for your important equipment.
Dennis.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Automotive-Window-Film-Crystalline-Series/?N=5002385+3290229310&rt=rud
This stuff is no joke. Biggest advantage of it is you can get clear and place it on the windshield.
Another simple trick is to get stuff lower. You would be amazed at how cool something will stay if you place in on the rear floor board with a decent jacket over it.
Well that’s some interesting stuff. I was preparing to get rid of the mustang for a vette right before the COVID stuff...which is still the plan once things get back to normal. I’ll check out the cost of the 3m film. I think it would be worth it if I have to keep the mustang longer term due to this mess. Definitely on the list for a new car though.
Thanks for the link.
When I lived in Miami, my carry gun lived under my seat when I was going somewhere that prohibited carry. No ill effects.
When I lived in Miami, my carry gun lived under my seat when I was going somewhere that prohibited carry. No ill effects.
Thanks for the reply man. I’m beginning to think I worry too much.
ramairthree
04-30-20, 17:04
I have kept a G19 in a kydex holster daily locked under my seat for years in SoCA with no issues. Spare Kydex left for years in covered rear SUV storage also show no issues. Spare Magpul AR mags also seem fine and ammo shot for groups and mag dumps after years were all good.
On a side note MREs kept for 2+ years in rear covered storage tasted fine too!
That said my SUV is white and I would recommend switching ammo and MREs at least yearly [emoji6]
I did read a Pat Rogers story once about NYPD ESU Mini 14s that literally banged around in their trucks metal drawers for years that affected both the weapon zero and the ammo which led me to test my stored AR ammo for groups. I would guess being well secured is a good thing for your important equipment.
Dennis.
I did just test zero on a couple of truck guns yesterday. One was a few inches right at a hundred, another was an inch off to the left.
Bounced around enough to actually affect zero vs red dots have progressed from a perfect dot, to a tiny blip of stem on a cherry, to a hint of an 8, to an 8 on me over the past several years?
I plan on testing the bounced around prism and LPVS guns tomorrow and see if they are off or it’s me.
I did just test zero on a couple of truck guns yesterday. One was a few inches right at a hundred, another was an inch off to the left.
Bounced around enough to actually affect zero vs red dots have progressed from a perfect dot, to a tiny blip of stem on a cherry, to a hint of an 8, to an 8 on me over the past several years?
I plan on testing the bounced around prism and LPVS guns tomorrow and see if they are off or it’s me.Haha I keep mine somewhat padded and wedged in for minimal movement, but I am sure there is some.
I hear you on the red dots. When I qualify I turn them down as much as possible to get the clearest dot like object. Also why I bought a cheap 4-16 Vortex to verify that my RDS guns are patterning well.
Dennis.
I did just test zero on a couple of truck guns yesterday. One was a few inches right at a hundred, another was an inch off to the left.
Bounced around enough to actually affect zero vs red dots have progressed from a perfect dot, to a tiny blip of stem on a cherry, to a hint of an 8, to an 8 on me over the past several years?
I plan on testing the bounced around prism and LPVS guns tomorrow and see if they are off or it’s me.
Welcome to old age! It's called astigmatism. My RDS (all Aimpoints except for one EOTech) all have a little "tail" on them, for me it's at about 5 o'clock. I try to focus on the main dot and ignore the tail, but it makes fairly precise zeroing a bit more difficult than in the past.
Saw a video once on how to tell if it's your RDS or you (i.e. astigmatism). Look at the dot as you slowly rotate the rifle; if the "tail" stays in the same place (like 5 o'clock for me) then it's definitely you and not the sight.
davidjinks
04-30-20, 17:52
My main concern would be the thermal stability of the powder being used. Not all powders are created equal.
In the grand scheme of things, check your ammo every now and then and don’t forget to rotate it every 6 months or so.
So, with the way things are going, I’ve decided to change some things. Most notably, carrying to and from work. However, I’m unable to carry inside the building, and therefore must leave my pistol in the car.
My state sees extreme temperature, and temperature swings, and the inside of a car can get mid triple digits. So, my question is what effect does this have on the cycling of the gun? I’m not worried about ammo “cooking off”, but rather if the cases themselves could expand to the point of causing issues chambering a round.
I know there are tons of people here with real-world “for keeps” experience with this, so if it’s a stupid question, well I guess let me have it. [emoji846]
Also, yes I know having to disarm is BS. I know they make pocket shit I might could get away with. It’s a business decision. I feel the odds are greater that I’d get caught and they’d fire my ass, than the odds of me needing to unscrew a pistol at work.
Search returned nothing for me.
Thanks gents
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