View Full Version : 40th Anniversary Operation EAGLE CLAW 🇺🇸
40 years! I remember when this happened well. I was 15. That was a win the US needed being post 'Nam, but it was not to be. I also found Beckwith's account of Carter in his book interesting as it was not least bit negative. This is a great summary video from the men who were there. Called "the most successful failure in history" they learned a lot and it lead to major changes and the development of USSOCOM and more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogSMqag2kCg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2ihBYZAOaMJBOWQNvWoLh2HAKTbzIISVtt7Z-uzlbzlGSuE8-Cqg8e6L8
BoringGuy45
04-25-20, 13:18
40 years! I remember when this happened well. I was 15. That was a win the US needed being post 'Nam, but it was not to be. I also found Beckwith's account of Carter in his book interesting as it was not least bit negative. This is a great summary video from the men who were there. Called "the most successful failure in history" they learned a lot and it lead to major changes and the development of USSOCOM and more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogSMqag2kCg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2ihBYZAOaMJBOWQNvWoLh2HAKTbzIISVtt7Z-uzlbzlGSuE8-Cqg8e6L8
Carter really doesn't deserve much blame for Eagle Claw. And honestly, at the time, and throughout most of his post-presidential years, he wasn't too bad. It was only around the time of the Iraq War that he decided to bend over and be the far left's bitch. Eagle Claw was just the cherry on top of a shit sundae that had been building since the end of Vietnam.
Bucky Burruss , Delta XO at the time, is in his 80s now, had a 8-mile speed ruck in commemoration and to raise money for SOWA...
I was a freshman in high school when it happened. I recall the pic of the M3A1 "grease gun" with suppressor attached in the burned-out wreckage of one of the aircraft.
I was a young A1C at Davis-Monthan AFB at the time. We weren't sure if war was imminent or not.
"The Guts To Try", written by the air component commander Jim Kyle, is a decent treatment of the subject.
I was a young A1C at Davis-Monthan AFB at the time. We weren't sure if war was imminent or not.
"The Guts To Try", written by the air component commander Jim Kyle, is a decent treatment of the subject.
Great book.
https://i.imgur.com/KZd3IDA.jpg
Rescue force loading up. Picture courtesy of the Facebook page of Stanislaw Tereznikov.
I was a young A1C at Davis-Monthan AFB at the time. We weren't sure if war was imminent or not.
"The Guts To Try", written by the air component commander Jim Kyle, is a decent treatment of the subject.
I was across town from you at the University of Arizona, @ 21 days before I commissioned. That fiasco was a contributory factor to the build up of SOCOM and my first long term aviation assignment.
I am guessing you weren't at Davis-Monthan in October 1978 when the A7-D crashed on the south side of the U of Arizona campus? I was on the mall in front of the Student Union building when I heard the pop from the pilot ejecting. After that they changed the pattern for landing at Davis-Monthan.
I was 11 at the time, I remember feeling like the US was pretty powerless. The hostage crisis in general, this disaster, pali-rags throwing terror tantrums left and right. Despite the talk of all the vets at the barbershop, it didn't seem like we were much of a power in the world let alone a "superpower".
LMT Shooter
04-25-20, 18:38
Eric Haneys book Inside Delta Force goes into this story a bit. It's a good read overall.
I was across town from you at the University of Arizona, @ 21 days before I commissioned. That fiasco was a contributory factor to the build up of SOCOM and my first long term aviation assignment.
I am guessing you weren't at Davis-Monthan in October 1978 when the A7-D crashed on the south side of the U of Arizona campus? I was on the mall in front of the Student Union building when I heard the pop from the pilot ejecting. After that they changed the pattern for landing at Davis-Monthan.
I was there and I remember that. In fact, I'd only been on base about two months. DM was my first assignment out of Tech School.
I was there and I remember that. In fact, I'd only been on base about two months. DM was my first assignment out of Tech School.
Then you were there when you could take Speedway Blvd all the way east and it would be nothing but Sonoran Desert by the Saguaro Monument East, or head over the Tucson Mountains to the west over Gates Pass, and nothing out there. Now houses all over the place.
I was a poor Army Reservist with a wife (also in school) with a baby son. I was doing one weekend a month at Fort Huachuca and working part-time at KVOA-TV 4 the NBC affiliate. I was an ENG (Electronic New Gathering) photog and tape editor. The wife was working towards her undergrad in Nursing, and I was doing two majors - Management Information Systems and a science major in Archaeology with an emphasis on pre-Columbian culture. My MOS at the time in the Army was Intel Analyst, working Imaging at Huachuca prior to aviation. I liked Tucson back then.
Good times :D
When I arrived on DM, the first aircraft I can recall seeing was a pair of F-106 Delta Darts taking off. They looked sharp even considering their age.
Grand58742
04-26-20, 09:39
Good times :D
When I arrived on DM, the first aircraft I can recall seeing was a pair of F-106 Delta Darts taking off. They looked sharp even considering their age.
Sorry for the thread drift, but the first and only time I saw F-106s was during the evacuation for Hurricane Erin back in 1995. They were the QF-106 drones from Tyndall that came up to Dobbins with our birds from Eglin, however, had pilots in the seat for the trip.
Absolutely beautiful aircraft. Though those J75s were LOUD.
Grand58742
04-26-20, 09:45
I was 11 at the time, I remember feeling like the US was pretty powerless. The hostage crisis in general, this disaster, pali-rags throwing terror tantrums left and right. Despite the talk of all the vets at the barbershop, it didn't seem like we were much of a power in the world let alone a "superpower".
I don't think we truly were. We had no way of projecting force back then. Or at least of sustaining it when they did send out troops. I certainly think some of the special ops guys of the time were a bit ahead of the power curve in terms of trying to build more specialized units for that counter terror role as the threats were starting to grow away from nation states. Of course, funding and a significant post-Vietnam funk was not helping matters.
I don't think we truly were. We had no way of projecting force back then. Or at least of sustaining it when they did send out troops. I certainly think some of the special ops guys of the time were a bit ahead of the power curve in terms of trying to build more specialized units for that counter terror role as the threats were starting to grow away from nation states. Of course, funding and a significant post-Vietnam funk was not helping matters.
We were actually behind the curve; Beckwith (and Marcinko) were ahead of the curve in the US. England, France, Germany, certainly Israel, had far better CT/AT resources. You are right on about funding, the entirety of the US military was in a financial funk in the 70s, and it took Eagle Claw to change that (for SOF), and Reagan's presidency to change it in general.
I recall Jim Kyle as saying that, with regard to the helicopter pilots selected for the mission, the USAF had H-53 pilots that had flown long-range special ops missions in Vietnam and who might be more suitable for the role. But rounding them up from across the various MajComs was seen as an unacceptable security risk.
We were actually behind the curve; Beckwith (and Marcinko) were ahead of the curve in the US. England, France, Germany, certainly Israel, had far better CT/AT resources. You are right on about funding, the entirety of the US military was in a financial funk in the 70s, and it took Eagle Claw to change that (for SOF), and Reagan's presidency to change it in general.
And Eagle Claw demonstrated in a fireball and unneeded deaths and international embarrassment the costs of it. Typical of the US, we don't do anything small so when the changes took place, at least they went big and all encompassing to do it, at least how it appeared to the outsider like myself.
ramairthree
04-26-20, 12:16
It’s amazing what a smaller place the world is now compared to then.
We can project massive or surgical force in a matter of hours over vast distances.
Communication virtually anywhere in real time.
Even fifteen years ago I was thinking the roles of forward deployed CIFs and ambassadors were very much just a remnant of the original purpose.
Diamondback
04-26-20, 13:40
When I arrived on DM, the first aircraft I can recall seeing was a pair of F-106 Delta Darts taking off. They looked sharp even considering their age.
Offtopic: The ones still in existence still do--I may be biased though, because my grandfather wrenched 'em (318th FIS, Osan deployment) and the prof I think of as "the dad I never had" flew 'em.
It’s amazing what a smaller place the world is now compared to then.
We can project massive or surgical force in a matter of hours over vast distances.
Communication virtually anywhere in real time.
Even fifteen years ago I was thinking the roles of forward deployed CIFs and ambassadors were very much just a remnant of the original purpose.
Yes..."everything old is new again."
And Eagle Claw demonstrated in a fireball and unneeded deaths and international embarrassment the costs of it. Typical of the US, we don't do anything small so when the changes took place, at least they went big and all encompassing to do it, at least how it appeared to the outsider like myself.
Ironically, the dominoes led directly to Reagan outspending the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. What most people don't know is Carter actually successfully negotiated the end of the hostage crisis, but Reagan got credit for it because the Iranians waited until he was sworn in as a final FU to Carter. Of course the negotiation included the unfreezing of Iranian assets so Carter was among the first to buy off the Iranians, even if it was with their own funds.
But the perception of Carter's dismal failure is a huge part of what got Reagan elected and the debacle of Eagle Claw specifically is what put us on a path to rebuilding our military capacity.
In 1981 (IIRC) the military got a pretty substantial pay raise. We all subscribed that to Reagan's pro-military attitude.
Larry Vickers
04-27-20, 19:31
In 1981 (IIRC) the military got a pretty substantial pay raise. We all subscribed that to Reagan's pro-military attitude.
I joined in 1981 and after long careful reflection I think Reagan as President and the emphasis he put on the military and in returning pride to this country is the most significant event post WWII. For those who did not live thru it it is hard to explain the attitude of the country during the Carter years and what Reagan did when he took office. The effect it had on those who joined the military and the benefits that has had up to today is immeasurable. Ending the Cold War is one piece of it; setting the military up for success with quality people who joined for the right reasons has literally changed the world we live in. Words can’t describe the significance of this.
amen
I was born in the late 60's...if members haven't seen the documentaries on the 80's I think on the History channel, it is well worth your time as they start off with the end of the Carter years & how The Miracle on Ice / Reagan spring boarded our entire outlook as Americans in general. Proud Gen X'r here & kinda surprised how forgotten the said significance seems to be on how the actual tide turned on our general inward pride as Americans. We are somewhat a forgotten generation in many aspects to those behind & in front.
the 1983 Grenada and 1989 Panama operations, although they certainly had their share of snafus, helped the US military shake off some of the Vietnam and Eagle Claw vapors. Public confidence in the military started to return. Desert Storm in 1990/1991 cemented that confidence.
I joined in 1981 and after long careful reflection I think Reagan as President and the emphasis he put on the military and in returning pride to this country is the most significant event post WWII. For those who did not live thru it it is hard to explain the attitude of the country during the Carter years and what Reagan did when he took office. The effect it had on those who joined the military and the benefits that has had up to today is immeasurable. Ending the Cold War is one piece of it; setting the military up for success with quality people who joined for the right reasons has literally changed the world we live in. Words can’t describe the significance of this.
I watched it in many people. We went from military service being something that happened to you like getting arrested and many people believed a draft existed until the late 70s to the military becoming an opportunity "to serve."
Part of the blame was Jane Fonda and the John Kerry crew with their world view that veterans are sad sack losers on par with those who scrub toilets for a living and at best were drug addicted victims of war that needed to be pitied but only if they denounced how evil the US military was.
And while it is still Hollywood with their own perspective, you even saw it in films which went from things like "The Deer Hunter" to "Stripes", "Top Gun" and even "Red Dawn." Even if you weren't in the military, Reagan changed the way most viewed the military.
I was a Reagan supporter before I could vote. I worked his 1976 campaign and even ate dinner with him in a private home here in New Mexico. I signed my college ROTC contract 16 months later. I didn't want to be an Army Officer for altruistic reasons - I just wanted Out. I saw too many of my peers in rural New Mexico who just vegetated during and after high school, and I didn't want that same fate. I had to see the world, let the DOD pay for college and do neat stuff.
After flight and air frame schools, my first long term assignment was at Fort Campbell. When I arrived in June 1983, I found my aviation unit to be in a building phase, but still rocked by several accidents and deaths. I got the feeling that Special Operations Command was still figuring things out, and was in a trial and error period. Certain units were well funded - other units were under funded. Even 8 years after the Vietnam War ended, the concept of providing small arms to pilots was overlooked. I have mentioned before that for Operation Urgent Fury, we were provided S&W .38 revolvers, and there wasn't enough for everyone. Instead of aviation sectionals for aviators, we were given civilian tourist maps of Grenada.
Reagan did a good job, but things always moved slow in big Army, and I think it still does.
I joined in 1981 and after long careful reflection I think Reagan as President and the emphasis he put on the military and in returning pride to this country is the most significant event post WWII. For those who did not live thru it it is hard to explain the attitude of the country during the Carter years and what Reagan did when he took office. The effect it had on those who joined the military and the benefits that has had up to today is immeasurable. Ending the Cold War is one piece of it; setting the military up for success with quality people who joined for the right reasons has literally changed the world we live in. Words can’t describe the significance of this.
Grand58742
04-28-20, 08:13
Instead of aviation sectionals for aviators, we were given civilian tourist maps of Grenada.
Well, did you at least know where the nice beaches were once everything was all said and done?
Grand58742
04-28-20, 08:45
I watched it in many people. We went from military service being something that happened to you like getting arrested and many people believed a draft existed until the late 70s to the military becoming an opportunity "to serve."
Part of the blame was Jane Fonda and the John Kerry crew with their world view that veterans are sad sack losers on par with those who scrub toilets for a living and at best were drug addicted victims of war that needed to be pitied but only if they denounced how evil the US military was.
And while it is still Hollywood with their own perspective, you even saw it in films which went from things like "The Deer Hunter" to "Stripes", "Top Gun" and even "Red Dawn." Even if you weren't in the military, Reagan changed the way most viewed the military.
On the same aspect of the Jane Fonda and John Kerry generation. By the time Desert Storm rolled around, I think you had millions of American parents that served in Vietnam that weren't going to allow their children to act the fool like they saw upon their return. As well as millions more that had seen what their brothers had undergone upon their return and weren't going to stand for it. They weren't going to allow their children to treat veterans like the generation before had been treated. I think that's when people really started to realize they can object to the war, but leave the warrior out of it.
You still have plenty of people that believe that nothing but talk can solve the world's problems, however, they go well short of spitting on military members or calling them baby killers. I think the Boomer generation had a lot to do with that as well by educating the Gen X like you and I to respect those who choose to serve. It's something we've passed along to our children too. We can disagree with the war, but we choose to celebrate those who serve.
The 60s were a turbulent time for American society across the board which started with the Cuban Missile Crisis and ending in the 1968 election riots. Toss in how society was rapidly changing with the implementation of the Civil Rights Act and you have a recipe for tearing a country apart. I think we entered the funk of the 70s because we were just weary as a nation. Weary of war, weary of fighting each other, weary of fighting the changing society and our nation really didn't have a path forward. We won the Space Race, the only national action of the 1960s that truly brought people together, and then said "okay, now what?" Nixon didn't have a path forward, Ford wasn't around long enough to chart a path and Carter, while a good man, had no idea where the nation should be focused and never made grand plans. He really was unsuited for the office, though again, a good man. Eagle Claw was just the culmination of a nation "wandering in the desert" for nearly a decade.
Enter Reagan who decided to refocus us on the Soviet threat and reestablished a national identity of a strong America. We remembered we were the America that had kicked the hell out of the Germans and Japanese, gone to the moon and done great things in the not so distant past. As a nation, we rolled up our sleeves and starting pushing forward towards that "shining city on a hill" we knew we should be.
Reagan would have won even without the polarity of Iran/Eagle Claw, and his focus would have remained on the USSR. Eagle Claw was a watershed event that paved the way to an extraordinary boom in unified SOF operations, training, and money. But Kyle's book and Beckwith's book really did show a lot of fundamental weaknesses in not only the SOF at the time but also the bigger military as well. I wonder had Eagle Claw not happened, what would that seminal event have been? Would there have been one? Grenada? I think the unification and separate command would have happened eventually.
I was...11 1/2 when this happened, and although I was destined to serve (what with my dad having been in the Marines, both grandfathers and great-grandfathers having served, too), it was Eagle Claw, followed by Grenada, Beirut, Panama, and the Banana Wars in El Salvador that cemented my desire to serve.
If Eagle Claw hadn't happened, wonder how much longer Delta could have remained anonymous?
If Eagle Claw hadn't happened, wonder how much longer Delta could have remained anonymous?
Great question. Maybe if LAV comes back on this thread he can opine. I think back then without the 24/7 news cycle and electronic media it was easier to remain in the shadows. SEALs and SF were still hush-hush.
The invasion of Greneda was in 1983 and Panama in 1989. The Army and Naval Special Ops units were highly prominent in both of those conflicts. I guess the genie would have been out of the bottle in those situations had Desert One didn't happen.
The invasion of Greneda was in 1983 and Panama in 1989. The Army and Naval Special Ops units were highly prominent in both of those conflicts. I guess the genie would have been out of the bottle in those situations had Desert One didn't happen.
For Urgent Fury in October of '83, it was classified that we used Navy ships for landing, refueling and dropping off of casualties. Just utilizing Navy ships as repeaters for comms was classified as well. For me it was the first time I'd ever flown over open ocean.
For Urgent Fury in October of '83, it was classified that we used Navy ships for landing, refueling and dropping off of casualties. Just utilizing Navy ships as repeaters for comms was classified as well. For me it was the first time I'd ever flown over open ocean.
And IIRC Urgent Fury showed still more that needed to be done to synch SOCOM into harmony. Panama went a little smoother.
I believe it was during Urgent Fury that a Navy A-7E strafed elements of the 82nd Airborne, resulting in several dead and wounded.
On the same aspect of the Jane Fonda and John Kerry generation. By the time Desert Storm rolled around, I think you had millions of American parents that served in Vietnam that weren't going to allow their children to act the fool like they saw upon their return. As well as millions more that had seen what their brothers had undergone upon their return and weren't going to stand for it. They weren't going to allow their children to treat veterans like the generation before had been treated. I think that's when people really started to realize they can object to the war, but leave the warrior out of it.
Absolutely, I think that is really where "thanks for your service" became a common thing.
I believe it was during Urgent Fury that a Navy A-7E strafed elements of the 82nd Airborne, resulting in several dead and wounded.
That was an 82nd tactical operations center with some Marines embedded, and the latter relayed some bad info to the Navy pilots. I was thinking it was only 1 killed with several wounded.
That was an 82nd tactical operations center with some Marines embedded, and the later relayed some bad info to the Navy pilots. I was thinking it was only 1 killed with several wounded.
I think you're right. The A-7's also hit a mental institution and killed 18 (?) patients. Those boys were busy.
m1a_scoutguy
04-28-20, 18:55
Great book.
WOW,I left DMAFB in June of 79 ! 355 Civil Engineering Squadron. I'll look for the book myself.
From the Army's official history of the Grenada action, which is (somewhat surprisingly) only 40 pages:
"Perhaps the most serious military lapse in the early planning efforts centered on intelligence: the failure to identify more than one campus at the medical school and to discover that a large number of Americans lived off campus. Again, excessive compartmentalization for security reasons and compressed planning appear to have severely hampered not only the flow of information within intelligence circles, but also the collection of additional, readily available information from open sources.
Next to the intelligence failure, Atlantic Command’s inability to coordinate planning by all the disparate ground force elements involved in the operation was the most striking flaw. The compressed planning time was only part of the explanation. The failure to design an adequate concept of a joint operation at an early stage indicated that the joint headquarters in question, Atlantic Command, was neither trained nor manned to mount a complicated ground force operation in the time allotted, whatever the size. Atlantic Command was geared to transport massive reinforcements and supplies safely to Europe in the event of a Soviet attack, but in October 1983 it was unprepared for the complexities of its joint task force responsibilities."
"Excessive compartmentalization" was a theme which was also common to the Holloway Report on the failure of Eagle Claw. OPSEC is critical, so I would think that any decision would tend to lean on the "more security" side. Maybe there's a happy medium somewhere?
https://history.army.mil/html/books/grenada/urgent_fury.pdf
From the Army's official history of the Grenada action, which is (somewhat surprisingly) only 40 pages:
"Perhaps the most serious military lapse in the early planning efforts centered on intelligence: the failure to identify more than one campus at the medical school and to discover that a large number of Americans lived off campus. Again, excessive compartmentalization for security reasons and compressed planning appear to have severely hampered not only the flow of information within intelligence circles, but also the collection of additional, readily available information from open sources.
Next to the intelligence failure, Atlantic Command’s inability to coordinate planning by all the disparate ground force elements involved in the operation was the most striking flaw. The compressed planning time was only part of the explanation. The failure to design an adequate concept of a joint operation at an early stage indicated that the joint headquarters in question, Atlantic Command, was neither trained nor manned to mount a complicated ground force operation in the time allotted, whatever the size. Atlantic Command was geared to transport massive reinforcements and supplies safely to Europe in the event of a Soviet attack, but in October 1983 it was unprepared for the complexities of its joint task force responsibilities."
"Excessive compartmentalization" was a theme which was also common to the Holloway Report on the failure of Eagle Claw. OPSEC is critical, so I would think that any decision would tend to lean on the "more security" side. Maybe there's a happy medium somewhere?
https://history.army.mil/html/books/grenada/urgent_fury.pdf
It was a great mission concept for the Marines, but everyone wanted their piece of the pie and at the time we did not have the rapid-deployment joint capability packages we have since developed. That it went off as well as it did is nothing less than a miracle.
For many units, it seemed to be a last minute, jump-through-your-ass affair upon notification.
For many units, it seemed to be a last minute, jump-through-your-ass affair upon notification.
That's because it was no?
That's because it was no?
True that.
For many units, it seemed to be a last minute, jump-through-your-ass affair upon notification.
The 22 MAU had worked up for Beirut and was given the mission last-minute as an add-on. They went to Beirut in early November, straight from the Caribbean. But the MAGTF concept worked extremely well.
Edited to add, I went to a lecture in college (87? Maybe 88) given by one of the S3s who had planned the Marines' ops for Grenada.
The 22 MAU had worked up for Beirut and was given the mission last-minute as an add-on. They went to Beirut in early November, straight from the Caribbean. But the MAGTF concept worked extremely well.
Edited to add, I went to a lecture in college (87? Maybe 88) given by one of the S3s who had planned the Marines' ops for Grenada.
The tragedy in Beirut took place only two days prior to Urgent Fury, so Lebanon was where all eyes were focused. I had a guy in my platoon in Panama who had been in the 82nd when that all happened. They got the warning order to go and everyone thought it was to Beirut. When they got to lockdown and got the briefing as to where they were really going it was like "Where the fvck is Grenada?"
The tragedy in Beirut took place only two days prior to Urgent Fury, so Lebanon was where all eyes were focused. I had a guy in my platoon in Panama who had been in the 82nd when that all happened. They got the warning order to go and everyone thought it was to Beirut. When they got to lockdown and got the briefing as to where they were really going it was like "Where the fvck is Grenada?"
That's right. The Marines were out for blood. They were ready to nuke (metaphorically speaking) Grenada and get on to Lebanon.
My dad had been retired from the Marines just a few years in 83, so we knew some Marines who did not come back from Beirut.
For many units, it seemed to be a last minute, jump-through-your-ass affair upon notification.
This is an understatement. We were called up at the last minute at Fort Campbell, and a lot of the pilots were off duty and off base. Those of us available were told where we were flying to Pope AAF but no other details. They handed out .38 Smith & Wesson revolvers, but they didn't have enough to go around. I volunteered my S&W Model 66 from home and was approved by the Colonel. We gassed up and flew to the Ashville, NC airport and topped off the tank, then on to Fort Bragg where the fuel off load and breakdown of the aircraft started happening prior to loading on the transport planes. Normally two pilots in the choppers but since all hadn't been located, some of the choppers flew there with just one.
The pilots back at Fort Campbell were found, and cars were rented for them to make the drive to Fort Bragg. We got to spend time in a hanger and listen to Pentagon Intel folks describe the mission, and they reported that the news media found out the Independence Carrier group was en-route to the Caribbean so any OPSEC was lost.
One memorable thing that still sticks with me was a Black Air-Force load master interacted with me and said the heat in the plane I was going to Barbados in was broken- no heat in the back. He asked me if I had a warm jacket. I told him I only had my flight suit. He disappeared for a few minutes then returned with an Air Force heavy duty cold weather lined jacket. He was going to write my name in the collar but my name was too long so he only put LT and C for my last name. I still have that jacket.
From the official history, regarding the 82nd's preparations:
"The men drew double basic loads of M16 ammunition, but most individuals were not issued grenades because of concerns of having grenades on board the flight to Grenada."
Out of curiosity, is this still policy as pertains to frags and inflight safety?
This is an understatement. We were called up at the last minute at Fort Campbell, and a lot of the pilots were off duty and off base. Those of us available were told where we were flying to Pope AAF but no other details. They handed out .38 Smith & Wesson revolvers, but they didn't have enough to go around. I volunteered my S&W Model 66 from home and was approved by the Colonel. We gassed up and flew to the Ashville, NC airport and topped off the tank, then on to Fort Bragg where the fuel off load and breakdown of the aircraft started happening prior to loading on the transport planes. Normally two pilots in the choppers but since all hadn't been located, some of the choppers flew there with just one.
The pilots back at Fort Campbell were found, and cars were rented for them to make the drive to Fort Bragg. We got to spend time in a hanger and listen to Pentagon Intel folks describe the mission, and they reported that the news media found out the Independence Carrier group was en-route to the Caribbean so any OPSEC was lost.
One memorable thing that still sticks with me was a Black Air-Force load master interacted with me and said the heat in the plane I was going to Barbados in was broken- no heat in the back. He asked me if I had a warm jacket. I told him I only had my flight suit. He disappeared for a few minutes then returned with an Air Force heavy duty cold weather lined jacket. He was going to write my name in the collar but my name was too long so he only put LT and C for my last name. I still have that jacket.
Thanks for sharing. You have a very unique insight into that op and I love reading your perspectives.
Thanks for sharing. You have a very unique insight into that op and I love reading your perspectives.
Whenever I discuss Urgent Fury, I have to always relate the loss of a close friend and fellow pilot, CPT Keith Lucas. My first aviation assignment out of air frame school was Fort Huachuca. I was flying the OH-6 at the time with classified radar jamming gear from Libby AAF to Laguna AAF at Yuma Proving Grounds, doing various routes and patterns testing the effectiveness of the equipment. They were also testing it in different air frames.
Keith Lucas was a pilot there and him and his wife and me and my wife hung out a lot. We were in the same building of base housing at Huachuca. Keith got assigned to TF 160 before me and he put in a word to the commander, Col. Terrence Henry, that he knew of a pilot would would be good for their Regiment. Col. Henry flew to Huachuca to interview me, then we went on a 45 minute or so flight around the Huachuca Mountains, asking me to demonstrate some of my flight skills. After returning to base, he asked if I wanted to join the 160th, and I was transferred a month later in June of 1983.
CPT. Keith Lucas was the only TF 160 pilot killed in Grenada. My wife and I are still in contact with his wife and two daughters.
Whenever I discuss Urgent Fury, I have to always relate the loss of a close friend and fellow pilot, CPT Keith Lucas. My first aviation assignment out of air frame school was Fort Huachuca. I was flying the OH-6 at the time with classified radar jamming gear from Libby AAF to Laguna AAF at Yuma Proving Grounds, doing various routes and patterns testing the effectiveness of the equipment. They were also testing it in different air frames.
Keith Lucas was a pilot there and him and his wife and me and my wife hung out a lot. We were in the same building of base housing at Huachuca. Keith got assigned to TF 160 before me and he put in a word to the commander, Col. Terrence Henry, that he knew of a pilot would would be good for their Regiment. Col. Henry flew to Huachuca to interview me, then we went on a 45 minute or so flight around the Huachuca Mountains, asking me to demonstrate some of my flight skills. After returning to base, he asked if I wanted to join the 160th, and I was transferred a month later in June of 1983.
CPT. Keith Lucas was the only TF 160 pilot killed in Grenada. My wife and I are still in contact with his wife and two daughters.
Are you at liberty to say what happened?
Are you at liberty to say what happened?
It's a part of the public record now, but he was shot by Cuban manned AA, maintaining control until the operators were totally free of the aircraft before succumbing. His co-pilot, Warrant Officer Paul Price was also hit, but managed to fly the UH-60 to an adjacent ridge before taking more AA and the aircraft went down. They had been supporting Delta fast rope insertions. Price retired some years back as a CW5.
I have not been back to Grenada, but there is a monument there which was made out of his main rotor mast. His wife and daughters have visited the site. Keith is buried at the Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery.
It's a part of the public record now, but he was shot by Cuban manned AA. His co-pilot, Warrant Officer Paul Price was also hit, but managed to fly the UH-60 to an adjacent ridge before taking more AA and the aircraft went down. They had been supporting Delta fast rope insertions. Price retired some years back as a CW5.
I have not been back to Grenada, but there is a monument there which was made out of his main rotor mast. His wife and daughters have visited the site. Keith is buried at the Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery.
I hope the AA and its operators were converted to pink mist shortly there after.
Guy from another company in my battalion in Panama, SGT Pack, was in the first wave of Ranger jumpers at Point Salines airport. Dude was really cool and laid back, given that he was an E-5 from Ranger Batt, tabbed, mustard stain on the jump wings, CIB, etc.
SGT Pack said the first pass he was in was cut short, but not before he and a number of other guys jumped out. The aircraft abruptly banked and turned away, the sky not filled with the usual hundreds of chutes he was used to seeing on a mass-tac jump. He looked around and thought "WTF? Did they just friggin' leave us???" Turns out the first pass came in just high enough that the 23mm guns on the hillside above the airport could shoot right at them; subsequent passes went in even lower below the level which the gunners could depress their barrels. Affable guy that he was he made the story sound funny, yet I'll bet it was anything but funny at the time!
I hope the AA and its operators were converted to pink mist shortly there after.
I saw the aftermath - The Rangers took care of that particular location.
CPT Lucas received the Distinguished Flying Cross posthumously for keeping his UH-60 stable to offload his operator group despite him being hit 5 times. Co-Pilot Price was shot in the head but was able to put the damaged aircraft down, even though it rolled. I was a 23 year old 1LT flying an OH-6 and was co-pilot in the left seat with a CW-4 pilot and 'Nam vet.
Seems like the topic of this thread vered off a bit of the original intent.
I had first gotten to Hurlburt Field in 1979 (dating myself) and was still there at the time of the operation. We lost several good men during the rescue attempt. Sad situation for the entire base as many people were involved and directly affected. Also those of us that were subsequently preparing for the second attempt, were training at a high tempo. The second attempt, which of course was cancelled due to the captives release, was in planning almost immediately following the disaster.
I will have to restate what Mr. Larry Vickers mentioned....the entire Special operations community got a huge increae in exposure and funding due to the results of the attempt. Almost instantly our operations budget was greatly increased along with equipment. I think America was finally waking up! I don't post much, but certain posts cause me to reflect on the past and give thanks to those that sacrificed all. RIP brothers.
Seems like the topic of this thread vered off a bit of the original intent.
I had first gotten to Hurlburt Field in 1979 (dating myself) and was still there at the time of the operation. We lost several good men during the rescue attempt. Sad situation for the entire base as many people were involved and directly affected. Also those of us that were subsequently preparing for the second attempt, were training at a high tempo. The second attempt, which of course was cancelled due to the captives release, was in planning almost immediately following the disaster.
I will have to restate what Mr. Larry Vickers mentioned....the entire Special operations community got a huge increae in exposure and funding due to the results of the attempt. Almost instantly our operations budget was greatly increased along with equipment. I think America was finally waking up! I don't post much, but certain posts cause me to reflect on the past and give thanks to those that sacrificed all. RIP brothers.
When I joined TF 160 in June 1983, they were still in a building phase, years after Eagle Claw. The whole Special Operations community was still in a building phase, with various levels of success. Without going into too many details, in the early to mid 1980's, the Special Operations Community had issues with funding, cross-branch coordination, communications and command and control. That extended to the Intel community as well - everything was compartmentalized. By the late 90's when I retired, it had gotten better, but not perfect. Even 9/11 was a result of a compartmentalized Intel community not sharing information.
Seems like the topic of this thread vered off a bit of the original intent.
I had first gotten to Hurlburt Field in 1979 (dating myself) and was still there at the time of the operation. We lost several good men during the rescue attempt. Sad situation for the entire base as many people were involved and directly affected. Also those of us that were subsequently preparing for the second attempt, were training at a high tempo. The second attempt, which of course was cancelled due to the captives release, was in planning almost immediately following the disaster.
I wonder though, after the heads-up the first attempt gave the Iranians, how successful would a second mission have been? I mean any element of surprise (not exact time-wise, but the fact it was coming sometime) was blown by the first attempt. They had to know we'd try again.
I wonder though, after the heads-up the first attempt gave the Iranians, how successful would a second mission have been? I mean any element of surprise (not exact time-wise, but the fact it was coming sometime) was blown by the first attempt. They had to know we'd try again.
My understanding was the Iranians immediately scattered the hostages to various locations making a second attempt impossible. Anyone confirm/deny that?
As far as I can recall, a second mission was being planned and possibly trained for. The name "Honey Badger" is associated with this (rightly or wrongly).
I joined in 1981 and after long careful reflection I think Reagan as President and the emphasis he put on the military and in returning pride to this country is the most significant event post WWII. For those who did not live thru it it is hard to explain the attitude of the country during the Carter years and what Reagan did when he took office. The effect it had on those who joined the military and the benefits that has had up to today is immeasurable. Ending the Cold War is one piece of it; setting the military up for success with quality people who joined for the right reasons has literally changed the world we live in. Words can’t describe the significance of this.
I agree. I served 1978-1985 under both Carter and President Reagan. We started to see a difference right after President Reagan was inaugurated in January 1981.
I was on the protection detail for Mikhail Gorbachev in March of 2009 when he visited the Midwest. I heard part of his speech when he spoke at Eureka College and he had some very good things to say about President Reagan's strength and character.
A strong leader with character makes a tremendous difference.
ramairthree
05-10-20, 20:32
I joined in 1981 and after long careful reflection I think Reagan as President and the emphasis he put on the military and in returning pride to this country is the most significant event post WWII. For those who did not live thru it it is hard to explain the attitude of the country during the Carter years and what Reagan did when he took office. The effect it had on those who joined the military and the benefits that has had up to today is immeasurable. Ending the Cold War is one piece of it; setting the military up for success with quality people who joined for the right reasons has literally changed the world we live in. Words can’t describe the significance of this.
It was glorious. I was too young to enlist in 1981 but did when I turned 17 a few years later.
Younger Boomers and Gen Xers had had their damn fill of their hippy leftist teachers and the US being a punching bag.
The bad parts of the 1970s and 60s vibe ended when the the glorious 1980s began. It’s not entirely chronological. The 1980s began when RR stepped into office. They officially ended when BC stepped into office.
The effect Of RR and the reinvigoration of America was so strong guys that used to brag about their draft dodging stories or ran away to other countries to dodge the draft were now making and starring in movies about heroic Vietnam veterans, having their anti war songs backfire into popular patriotic hits, or reinventing themselves as conservative pro-Amercians.
It was awesome.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.