AR in Long Range Rifle Course

[Devildawg2531]

Using a BCM 18 inch stainless barrel AR in a local long range rifle course. I know this may not be optimal so checked with the instructor and he OK'd my setup. I was Marine but have had no distance shooting instruction since. Planning to use Barnes 70 grain TSX for the course. Any tips on things to bring that may not be obvious?

Thanks!

[markm]

Atlas Bipod, good shooting mat and rear bag, plenty of 20 round mags (not 30s due to too long in prone shooting), and a dope sheet based on your bullet b.c. and velocity.

[mack7.62]

IMI 77 grain Razor, 70 grain TSX would be a waste.

[Devildawg2531]

IMI 77 grain Razor, 70 grain TSX would be a waste.

Why would 70 grain TSX be a waste? This has been my standard hunting load in 556 for years. Great results and accuracy. Thanks for the explanation.

[mack7.62]

Exactly, it is a most excellent hunting load, a shame to waste it on paper, plus it is quite a bit more expensive than the Razor or some other OTM loads. Just looking at Midway they sell the TSX load for $1.15 a round while the Razor is $0.66-0.75 a round.

[turnburglar]

I also thought TSX was a waste for what you are doing. Just get some 77gr SMK's or best yet 69gr TMK's. An 18" AR15 with 77gr SMK's was the recipe for the SPR program so I think it will do well at distance. I shot a long distance AR match recently and the 'open' division had some guys using 12" barrels out too 650 yards.

[TMS951]

Using a BCM 18 inch stainless barrel AR in a local long range rifle course. I know this may not be optimal so checked with the instructor and he OK'd my setup. I was Marine but have had no distance shooting instruction since. Planning to use Barnes 70 grain TSX for the course. Any tips on things to bring that may not be obvious?

Thanks!

I took a Vtac DMR class. We shot out to 750 yards.

I was whacking steel with a 16” barrel and 10X scope like it was nothing.

I used magtech 77gr otm ammo. My biggest suggestion is to find yourself some much cheaper ammo than what you want to use. The magtech stuff is about 50 cents a round

[Straight Shooter]

Atlas Bipod, good shooting mat and rear bag, plenty of 20 round mags (not 30s due to too long in prone shooting), and a dope sheet based on your bullet b.c. and velocity.

Could you recommend a good rear bag..maybe a couple?
Also- whats your opinion on the Magpul bi-pod?

[ST911]

Using a BCM 18 inch stainless barrel AR in a local long range rifle course. I know this may not be optimal so checked with the instructor and he OK'd my setup. I was Marine but have had no distance shooting instruction since. Planning to use Barnes 70 grain TSX for the course. Any tips on things to bring that may not be obvious? Thanks!

I've taken a 5.56 to several precision rifle courses.

Follow the packing list from your vendor. Depending on the particulars of your course it should contain things like front and rear bags, bipod, mags, good glass, high quality ammo, notebook and pen, kestrel, range finder, spotting scope, ground mat, position adjuncts like sticks/tripod, etc, mags, if you're a clean barrel kind of guy, bring that stuff.

If 70 TSX is the load you normally use there is merit in shooting it to solidify your zero and true your dope. That bullet is not typically a match load or known for best accuracy, so recognize that as you stretch out. You may find that your optic/barrel/shooter combo are better than the bullet - depending on who is loading your ammo and what you're doing with it. If you're handloading it and found a match-like formula, good for you and drive on.

Squeeze bags, Fat Bags, and helpful precision stuff: https://www.armageddongear.com/

Share more info about your class, folks are always looking for places to train.

[Pappabear]

Could you recommend a good rear bag..maybe a couple?
Also- whats your opinion on the Magpul bi-pod?

If you cant afford an Atlas (it is pricey) , the Magpul will work. Black Hills OTM in 69 or 77 grain is outstanding ammo. But any SMK's with decent manufacturer will do. Look for Tri-ad tactical for rear bags, they have a bunch and other accessories.

Choose a bag that has something where you can load the bipod is a plus.

What glass are you running? I took my 16 inch Noveske out to 1,000 yards on sunday, the AR is just fine for long range. Fun to shoot and cheap to shoot.

[DGB]

Knee pads. I’ve never taken my BCM 16” out to a 1000, it shot 3/4 MOA at 100 and I swapped it for a Wilson. It would, however, easily hit an 8” plate at 500. I love Hornady 75 grain. It shoots the best out of nearly all my 5.56 barrels. Semper Fi.

[ssc]

What scopes are you all using for the long range steel?

Cheers, Steve

[mark5pt56]

Moving over to the Precision section as it's more fitting.

So it's not lost in the thread-my opinion-stick to one type of ammo for the class. No other student cares if you want to sit there as they watch because you want to try something else, re zero, etc. The exception is if you are well organized, have a plan and can gather data at one yard line and have another target to shoot at with the different ammo to see zero shift as the others do their exercise. Clear it with the instructor first and he/she may accommodate you.

Have a small pack and stage equipment you will need, do not bring the kitchen sink, RV lounge mat and mini fridge to the line. depending on the class, you may not have your vehicle nearby and will "ruck it" from line to line.

You do need basic items to assist with shooting drills, etc. I would advise contacting the school to see exactly what the curriculum is. No need to bring positional shooting aids if they aren't doing that. A rear bag is a nice item for prone or a pad if using a barricade, etc to rest the gun on. Shooting sticks are really great for rear support if kneeling, standing etc and front resting on tripod, window, barrier etc.

What scope?

In the end, a solid understanding of repeatable fundamentals, ballistics and reading/applying the wind is the key to success. Pay attention to those potions and you will be a happy camper. Note taking, data collection-take notes, don't let it consume you while shooting. I liked to use a small notepad and transfer it later if appropriate. Note all conditions so you can "repeat" them later. An example would be you are shooting at let's say 700 yards, it's sunny, hot and you ammo is cooking in the sun. You gather data and the next day you are at the same spot, it's cloudy and and you just pulled your ammo from the car which you took to lunch, had the AC cranked and wonder why you have a low hit.
Wind-Science at the muzzle, art in the air

I would go "small/heavy fill" I use it on an AR or the AI, you can us eat flat, sideways or length wise
https://www.tabgear.com/products/rear-bag

small and light
https://www.tabgear.com/collections/shooting-mats

This is great and you can have gun data in it. A chart made from JBM Ballistis is a nice second-along with a manual density altitude chart
https://kestrelmeters.com/products/kestrel-elite-weather-meter-with-applied-ballistics

JBM
https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml

Density Altitude, a good read-you can copy and print that chart-it will get you close. A summary-Density Altitude (DA) is the condition of the air the bullet has to travel through. Once you get it, you will understand and it's easy. JBM allows you to calculate different DA's and print so you have them available, laminate the chart or even retype it in a different format. Do it in 1000 increments. You will find that the DA doesn't change much until past 4-500 yards or so, caliber dependent.
http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/ManualDA/

I made these from JBM, retyped. The .308 ones where green for MOA and tan for Mil, DA for my area -2k-+3k(Virginia) Have to reduce them for Florida, dropping the -2k, maybe -1k. The .308 's has a card for 2500-2650 DA. I would run a simple book as seen and then after look at a premed book like an Impact version.
http://i.imgur.com/1tf1aBp.jpg (https://imgur.com/1tf1aBp)
http://i.imgur.com/4NQInB1.jpg (https://imgur.com/4NQInB1)

[1168]

What are the anticipated engagement ranges and target sizes?

[Straight Shooter]

If you cant afford an Atlas (it is pricey) , the Magpul will work. Black Hills OTM in 69 or 77 grain is outstanding ammo. But any SMK's with decent manufacturer will do. Look for Tri-ad tactical for rear bags, they have a bunch and other accessories.

Choose a bag that has something where you can load the bipod is a plus.

What glass are you running? I took my 16 inch Noveske out to 1,000 yards on sunday, the AR is just fine for long range. Fun to shoot and cheap to shoot.


I've taken a 5.56 to several precision rifle courses.

Follow the packing list from your vendor. Depending on the particulars of your course it should contain things like front and rear bags, bipod, mags, good glass, high quality ammo, notebook and pen, kestrel, range finder, spotting scope, ground mat, position adjuncts like sticks/tripod, etc, mags, if you're a clean barrel kind of guy, bring that stuff.

If 70 TSX is the load you normally use there is merit in shooting it to solidify your zero and true your dope. That bullet is not typically a match load or known for best accuracy, so recognize that as you stretch out. You may find that your optic/barrel/shooter combo are better than the bullet - depending on who is loading your ammo and what you're doing with it. If you're handloading it and found a match-like formula, good for you and drive on.

Squeeze bags, Fat Bags, and helpful precision stuff: https://www.armageddongear.com/

Share more info about your class, folks are always looking for places to train.

Thanks for the rear bag advice gents!

[ViniVidivici]

Rear bag? Sock full o' rice works for me. Rice goes in ziplock, then in sock, sock knotted closed.

[1168]

Rear bag? Sock full o' rice works for me. Rice goes in ziplock, then in sock, sock knotted closed.

Airsoft BBs in a sock also works.

[markm]

Could you recommend a good rear bag..maybe a couple?
Also- whats your opinion on the Magpul bi-pod?

A sand filled suede is our "target" bag. It's a little heavy. A Triad Tactical is a decent option for faster applications, but it's lighter and not as precision oriented.

Magpul bipods are good bang for the buck. I'd run one in a class. I do like the Atlas better, but Magpul is quite user friendly and functional.

[Devildawg2531]

I also thought TSX was a waste for what you are doing. Just get some 77gr SMK's or best yet 69gr TMK's. An 18" AR15 with 77gr SMK's was the recipe for the SPR program so I think it will do well at distance. I shot a long distance AR match recently and the 'open' division had some guys using 12" barrels out too 650 yards.

Lots of great advice. I ordered a case of the IMI 77 grain Razor from Midway to save my my Barnes TSX. Got some more info from the instructor and he said we will shoot "small targets" out to 600 yards. So very confident the 18" stainless BCM with scope will do fine... heck qualified at 500 with no optics in the Corps lol. Looking at the Atlas Bipod now. Great info from everyone. Thanks!

[Devildawg2531]

If you cant afford an Atlas (it is pricey) , the Magpul will work. Black Hills OTM in 69 or 77 grain is outstanding ammo. But any SMK's with decent manufacturer will do. Look for Tri-ad tactical for rear bags, they have a bunch and other accessories.

Choose a bag that has something where you can load the bipod is a plus.

What glass are you running? I took my 16 inch Noveske out to 1,000 yards on sunday, the AR is just fine for long range. Fun to shoot and cheap to shoot.

My cope is a 3-9 x 42 FFP.

I have an old Harris Bipod and leaning towards using this and learning before I plunk down the $300 plus for the Atlas bipod. Will this work?

[Pappabear]

My cope is a 3-9 x 42 FFP.

I have an old Harris Bipod and leaning towards using this and learning before I plunk down the $300 plus for the Atlas bipod. Will this work?

Yes a Harris will work. Does it have the ability to "cant", those are the better harris versions. Ie can you level the gun on uneven surfaces with bipod?

Either way it will work.

PB

[Devildawg2531]

Yes a Harris will work. Does it have the ability to "cant", those are the better harris versions. Ie can you level the gun on uneven surfaces with bipod?

Either way it will work.

PB
Thanks Poppa Bear. Yes it will cant in each direction and the legs are adjustable. Will roll with the Harris this time and learn what doesn't work well.

[polydeuces]

What glass are you running? I took my 16 inch Noveske out to 1,000 yards on sunday, the AR is just fine for long range. Fun to shoot and cheap to shoot.



PB; what ammo were you feeding the Noveske (Assuming N4 barrel?)- the 'Black Hills you.mentioned?
(it's on my to do list getting 1k hits out of my Noveske just to to make some of the local bench rest chassis paper punchers weep)
Thx

[markm]

PB; what ammo were you feeding the Noveske (Assuming N4 barrel?)- the 'Black Hills you.mentioned?
(it's on my to do list getting 1k hits out of my Noveske just to to make some of the local bench rest chassis paper punchers weep)
Thx

We usually just run 77 gr Nosler OTMs loaded to .223 published max. We've been playing with a hotter load of TMKs too... closer to 5.56 velocity, and slightly over published max.

[Pappabear]

Mark also loaded some hot TMK bullets. BH 77 OTM is a solid LR AR cartridge. Their 69 grain TMK is very flat shooting as well.

PB