View Full Version : Making an M4 winter ready.
In my quest to make my M4 an all around gun, I recently got to thinking about making it more suitable for use in the cold. About the only addition I can think of right now would be to add a magpul enhance trigger guard or use the elarged trigger guard from the large MIAD grip package so it can be shot while wearing gloves. Can anyone else think of anything that might make an M4 better for cold weather.
Lube should be a very "light" oil, nothing heavy- honestly wonder if a synthetic, something like Milltec, might be best.
For real cold, maybe a even a lighter buffer/buffer spring, but that would be pushing it it really cold hypothetical situation.
Keep magwell, dustcover, barrel free from icy/snowy buildups.
The M16 series runs quite well in the cold as is. Just remember as stated to use a light oil, and not a whole lot of it. Kind of the same treatment you'd give one in the desert.
That was one other thing I was thinking about picking up would be some of those plastic shoot off muzzle caps. Do you think mobil 1 5w-20(I think that's what I'm using) is light enough?
That was one other thing I was thinking about picking up would be some of those plastic shoot off muzzle caps. Do you think mobil 1 5w-20(I think that's what I'm using) is light enough?
Mobil 1 is a very good synthetic oil, I have switched to it and am happy with it, many others like it as well. Though choosing a brand of lube will always be a personal choice. Keeping the dust cover closed is always a good idea in the field although I've had my bolt covered with snow and ice before. It was always cleared out with the first shot but it is probably best to reduce the chance of problems by just keeping the cover closed.
Remember too, that cold metal will "Sweat" when brought from the cold into a warm and or moist environment. Which if remaining inside one might want to clean off the moisture? Then if returning to a real cold environment that same moisture could freeze and cause trouble.
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 01:42
For true cold weather use USGI mags or HK mags no P Mags.
Pat
For true cold weather use USGI mags or HK mags no P Mags.
Pat
Why is that?
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 01:51
In cold weather testing in Fairbanks Alaska 2 p mags that were tested failed at -40 below. Feed lips cracked rendering the mag useless. Mag pul is working on it I believe I gave them the person to contact who ran the test.
pat
In cold weather testing in Fairbanks Alaska 2 p mags that were tested failed at -40 below. Feed lips cracked rending the mag useless. Mag pul is working on it I believe I gave them the person to contact who ran the test.
pat
2 out of?
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 02:01
2 out of?
They only tested 2 mags to my knowledge. So 2 of 2. I love P mags and before that I did not know they have a problem. To be fair its only a issue in the extreme cold. For 99% of you out there you have nothing to worry about. Also both of the mags were OD green. A chief I met up there at a leo shoot asked me how my OD green P mags were holding up. I had told him I had only used my black ones. He seemed to think that the color had something to do with it. I did not have time to go into more details with him. So in all I had two people talk to me about issues with P mags up there. One was Sean McGee the Chief of UAF PD and the other was Bill Filiaga the owner of Protec. A black rifle shop up there. Bill is a Master Class shooter in USPSA and a store owner. Great guy.
Pat
In my quest to make my M4 an all around gun, I recently got to thinking about making it more suitable for use in the cold. About the only addition I can think of right now would be to add a magpul enhance trigger guard or use the elarged trigger guard from the large MIAD grip package so it can be shot while wearing gloves. Can anyone else think of anything that might make an M4 better for cold weather.
Or you could just push the detent that allows the stock trigger guard to pivot out of the way.
The people I have seen post up about it state that when it comes to lube, they run the weapon dry and CLEAN. (we all know dry and dirty won't work, but dry and clean does fine until it gets dirty).
In cold weather testing in Fairbanks Alaska 2 p mags that were tested failed at -40 below.
pat
Well, at -40...I'm pretty sure my lips would "fail", too! :D
In cold weather testing in Fairbanks Alaska 2 p mags that were tested failed at -40 below. Feed lips cracked rendering the mag useless.
pat
They only tested 2 mags to my knowledge. So 2 of 2. I love P mags and before that I did not know they have a problem. To be fair its only a issue in the extreme cold. For 99% of you out there you have nothing to worry about.
Pat
No, it's not Fairbanks, AK cold where I live, but it will get -3 or -4 cold. Are pmags safe, or should I be using my C Products mags?
Funny it only gets to -3 or -4 where I live. I live at the 41st parallel on the East side of the Wasatch front in Utah at 5100 feet. I grew up in Northern California at the 41st parallel at about 2500 feet and it would get to -15 in the mornings for a couple weeks during the winter.
Or you could just push the detent that allows the stock trigger guard to pivot out of the way.
The people I have seen post up about it state that when it comes to lube, they run the weapon dry and CLEAN. (we all know dry and dirty won't work, but dry and clean does fine until it gets dirty).
That's true about the trigger guard, but this is my grab and go gun, so it would be better to have a trigger guard that already accomodates the gloves without having to fold it out of the way. I can't say that I'm worried about my pmags breaking since it usually doesn't go below -25 or so and that's kind of rare.
If its REAL cold - use arctic mitten over an anti-contact glove -- you flip off the arctic mit and use the glove for weapons manipulation.
the 'Arctic' trigger guard is for morons.
very light oil - sparingly.
militec is like cement at low temp.
Failure2Stop
11-25-08, 11:39
The M16 series runs quite well in the cold as is. Just remember as stated to use a light oil, and not a whole lot of it. Kind of the same treatment you'd give one in the desert.
The only time to be light on lube is in sub-freezing temperatures. Heavy lube in the desert is a good thing.
No, it's not Fairbanks, AK cold where I live, but it will get -3 or -4 cold. Are pmags safe, or should I be using my C Products mags?
PMags are fine for your conditions. Keep Alaskapopo's posts in context. He is describing a problem that has been demonstrated with one color of PMag in extremely adverse temperature conditions, over a sample size of 2. There are lots of people using PMags in very low temperatures- the fact that only a few people from a specific region have encountered the problem should be indicative of how obscure a problem it may be. Only when subjected to extremely low temperatures for extended periods of time do they suffer from potential feed-lip failure, as opposed to just about every other magazine which fail by simply dropping them on their feed-lips or actually using them.
I would rather use a magazine that was a known inducer of ED than use CProducts mags for anything other than barrier testing ammo.
In my quest to make my M4 an all around gun, I recently got to thinking about making it more suitable for use in the cold. About the only addition I can think of right now would be to add a magpul enhance trigger guard or use the elarged trigger guard from the large MIAD grip package so it can be shot while wearing gloves. Can anyone else think of anything that might make an M4 better for cold weather.
Given a high quality carbine, there's nothing special to do for your environment. Changing the trigger guard may or may not be worthwhile.
Lube should be a very "light" oil, nothing heavy- honestly wonder if a synthetic, something like Milltec, might be best. .
For winters in the Dakotas, there's no need to change from standard cleaning and lubrication norms. As always, use a high quality lubricant.
As noted by others, if temps get really low (0 to -), I'd consider lightening up on the lube, but how much so depends on more variables.
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 14:50
No, it's not Fairbanks, AK cold where I live, but it will get -3 or -4 cold. Are pmags safe, or should I be using my C Products mags?
Funny it only gets to -3 or -4 where I live. I live at the 41st parallel on the East side of the Wasatch front in Utah at 5100 feet. I grew up in Northern California at the 41st parallel at about 2500 feet and it would get to -15 in the mornings for a couple weeks during the winter.
I am not sure and I believe more cold weather testing should be done. I plan on doing some this winter. It only gets about -5 or so here at the coldest. I live on the coast.
Pat
Littlelebowski
11-25-08, 15:07
I sincerely doubt the color of the mag has anything to do with the "problem." There is no problem until a real test with more than two mags is used. Of course if any of you have a scientific reason (the dye perhaps?) as to why the lips cracked, I'd love hear it.
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 15:21
I sincerely doubt the color of the mag has anything to do with the "problem." There is no problem until a real test with more than two mags is used. Of course if any of you have a scientific reason (the dye perhaps?) as to why the lips cracked, I'd love hear it.
I agree more tests need to be ran. Until they are though my winter carry mags will not be P Mags.
Pat
For true cold weather use USGI mags or HK mags no P Mags.
Pat
Good God, man. How many threads can you work this comment in to? We've done cold weather function testing, and the PMAG passes just fine. The only failures we've seen were fully loaded drop tests on the feed lips under circumstances that also make aluminum mags fail.
I'm sending you some magazines so you can test for yourself. Post the results. I would be very surprised if you can replicate the failures your friend experienced by simply inserting the magazine into the mag well, but maybe I'll eat my words...who knows.
Littlelebowski
11-25-08, 15:35
It would be nice to see some actual documented testing instead of of "I know this guy and he had two PMags break so I can't recommend them for extreme cold weather" inserted into threads about PMags ad nauseum.
I'm sending you some magazines so you can test for yourself. Post the results. I would be very surprised if you can replicate the failures your friend experienced by simply inserting the magazine into the mag well, but maybe I'll eat my words...who knows.
You know...
I think that in certain Oklahoma weather conditions, such as...um...tornadoes, yeah, during tornadoes Pmag lips fail due to drastic changes in atmospheric pressure. That's right, during tornadic weather events, baroflux renders Pmags useless for reliable defensive purposes. As an engineer living in Tornado Alley, I feel uniquely qualified to test this phenomenon further across the full spectrum of the Fujita Scale of Tornado Intensity. I hypothosize that failure rates will increase exponentially as the intensity increases from F1 to F5. If you'll kindly send me an test sample of adequate size and variety, I'll store them away and wait for a tornado to pop up to provide the appropriate test conditions. On second thought, send two groups, and I'll store one and use the other heavily, to see if degredation over time and use has an effect on the suceptibility of Pmag feed lips to cracking under tornadic baroflux.
;) :p
Littlelebowski
11-25-08, 15:42
My freezer can get down to -40.
My freezer can get down to -40.
Mine too.
I also have a theory that P-mags won't work after being thrown in an oven set on broil.... Care to donate to the cause for testing nick? :D :confused: :cool:
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 15:53
Good God, man. How many threads can you work this comment in to? We've done cold weather function testing, and the PMAG passes just fine. The only failures we've seen were fully loaded drop tests on the feed lips under circumstances that also make aluminum mags fail.
I'm sending you some magazines so you can test for yourself. Post the results. I would be very surprised if you can replicate the failures your friend experienced by simply inserting the magazine into the mag well, but maybe I'll eat my words...who knows.
Thanks I will test them Also don't take this as a hit I love P Mags I am just concerned about this issue. Also this thread was about winter ready M4's so I feel its a valid concern.
pat
Alaskapopo
11-25-08, 15:55
It would be nice to see some actual documented testing instead of of "I know this guy and he had two PMags break so I can't recommend them for extreme cold weather" inserted into threads about PMags ad nauseum.
I saw them with my own eyes and I have given Mag Pull his contact information. Not sure how much more I can do to help them out on correcting this issue other than testing them myself which I will be doing as soon as we get a cold snap.
Pat
I sincerely doubt the color of the mag has anything to do with the "problem." There is no problem until a real test with more than two mags is used. Of course if any of you have a scientific reason (the dye perhaps?) as to why the lips cracked, I'd love hear it.
Well, I have no idea if this applies to PMags or not but color certainly plays a role in durability with Bulgarian waffle AK magazines. The black mags are much much more durable than the clear/smoke magazines. I'm not saying this applies to PMags, not by any stretch but it has applied to other polymer magazines before.
Dr. Quickdraw Mcgraw
11-25-08, 18:11
You know...
I think that in certain Oklahoma weather conditions, such as...um...tornadoes, yeah, during tornadoes Pmag lips fail due to drastic changes in atmospheric pressure. That's right, during tornadic weather events, baroflux renders Pmags useless for reliable defensive purposes. As an engineer living in Tornado Alley, I feel uniquely qualified to test this phenomenon further across the full spectrum of the Fujita Scale of Tornado Intensity. I hypothosize that failure rates will increase exponentially as the intensity increases from F1 to F5. If you'll kindly send me an test sample of adequate size and variety, I'll store them away and wait for a tornado to pop up to provide the appropriate test conditions. On second thought, send two groups, and I'll store one and use the other heavily, to see if degredation over time and use has an effect on the suceptibility of Pmag feed lips to cracking under tornadic baroflux.
;) :p
yes extensive testing is NEEDED!!!! also i hypothesize that flooding can cause problems with both the moe forearm and the moe BUIS. As a responsible manufacture you really should send some one in Iowa at least one of each of these.... perhaps me??
Hey, NickB,
Are you having any trouble finding ANY "MILK MEN" for mag testing?
The only one I know of breaking, is the one I put in a vice and squeezed it at the top, and the back cracked. :eek: I still have to send it in.
In my quest to make my M4 an all around gun, I recently got to thinking about making it more suitable for use in the cold. About the only addition I can think of right now would be to add a magpul enhance trigger guard or use the elarged trigger guard from the large MIAD grip package so it can be shot while wearing gloves. Can anyone else think of anything that might make an M4 better for cold weather.
I've done some cold weather testing (-30) with slip 2000. My colts ran fine even when very cold. And I lube very wet.
Next time I go to fairbanks, I'll leave a couple PMags in the truck and bang them around a little to see what happens. Hell, I've broken USGI mags by just stepping on them. I'm not too concerned about PMags failing.
I brake shit. I should be a beta tester!!
Until that day,
Darkop
sixboysdad
11-26-08, 03:52
For true cold weather use USGI mags or HK mags no P Mags.
Pat
For true cold weather, move the hell away to somewhere that is warmer.
Criminently.:p:D;)
ffhounddog
11-26-08, 04:22
If you want winter Ready do not even think about a HK Mag.
Those are the biggest pieces of shit I ahve seen. We had a box of them that was sent back from Afghanistan because they would not work.
The Ammo guy/full time gun nut took out his purchese card bought the same amount of mags from DSG arms (I had to sign it I was in envy that was alot of mags) with magpul followers and they were good to go.
This was before PMAGs were out.
decodeddiesel
11-26-08, 14:30
I would rather use a magazine that was a known inducer of ED than use CProducts mags for anything other than barrier testing ammo.
Well said Sir.
Well, let's hear about the problems with C Products mags. At the end of 2006, it seemed like everybody thought they were great. Remember how they were selling like mad after the Democrats took control of Congress and the Senate? What's changed with C Products in the last two years?
I don't go outside when it's forty below zero. :(
Well, let's hear about the problems with C Products mags. At the end of 2006, it seemed like everybody thought they were great. Remember how they were selling like mad after the Democrats took control of Congress and the Senate? What's changed with C Products in the last two years?
QC went to hell -- 25% failure rate (as in not useable mags) from recent groups I have seen people buy.
QC went to hell -- 25% failure rate (as in not useable mags) from recent groups I have seen people buy.
I picked up ten from Global Tactical in November 2006. I wonder how their QC was then? I remember that was the time when everybody could hardly wait for their teflon coated mags to come out. Mine are the gray ones. I haven't even taken them out of the wrapper yet. Yeah, I know, crazy. I was busy doing other stuff besides shooting my AR-15.
Littlelebowski
01-08-09, 12:29
Thanks I will test them Also don't take this as a hit I love P Mags I am just concerned about this issue. Also this thread was about winter ready M4's so I feel its a valid concern.
pat
So how's that test going?
Or you could just push the detent that allows the stock trigger guard to pivot out of the way.
But that takes away the thrill of an unnecessary aftermarket gadget purchase/install! :eek:
But that takes away the thrill of an unnecessary aftermarket gadget purchase/install! :eek:
Well after having to endure some of the winter, I'm starting to have my doubts about needing the magpul trigger guard. I've been fine using gloves and the factory trigger guard. A bigger problem was getting use to shooting the gun wih heavy gloves.
Another thing I've found is that for my uses is that mobil 1 5W-30 seems to work good. I've gone out rabbit shooting with my m4 in sub-zero days and it functioned fine. I will note though that I wasn't out longer than 45 minutes, because by that time the rabbits were gone, so the gun wasn't really subjected to the cold temps.
So how's that test going?
I haven't sent the mags yet. We did some internal testing recently on the PMAG with a couple minor in-line changes, and I'd like to send the latest and greatest to AK for T&E. Soon...
Alaskapopo
01-08-09, 13:14
I haven't sent the mags yet. We did some internal testing recently on the PMAG with a couple minor in-line changes, and I'd like to send the latest and greatest to AK for T&E. Soon...
Now would be the time to test as we have had a record long cold weather streak.
I did pick up a new AImpoint and sighted my Colt in with it the other day and the temp was 0 with a wind chill of -30.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20rifles/Colt69202.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20rifles/COlt6920.jpg
Now would be the time to test as we have had a record long cold weather streak.
I did pick up a new AImpoint and sighted my Colt in with it the other day and the temp was 0 with a wind chill of -30.
We had a record low of -18F a few weeks back and that made me want to leave the state...I don't know how you do it.
St.Michael
01-08-09, 13:29
I thought you guys already did the "what color pmag is better" thread? LOL. Anyway, It doesn't get too cold here either. We do have negative wind chills, but I don't think that will affect too much.
variablebinary
01-08-09, 13:37
I cant even imagine shooting in subzero temps.
The coldest I've ever experianced on a shoot is about 15 degrees during blizzard like conditions. My 6920 took it in stride. CLP was all I used as usual
Recently I had the LWRC out in 25 degree weather. Also worked well.
Alaskapopo
01-08-09, 15:04
I cant even imagine shooting in subzero temps.
The coldest I've ever experianced on a shoot is about 15 degrees during blizzard like conditions. My 6920 took it in stride. CLP was all I used as usual
Recently I had the LWRC out in 25 degree weather. Also worked well.
The coldest I have ever shot was -30 below. We were shooting a pistol qualification. It was good for the guys as they found out that things don't always work right in the cold. Things like jackets getting caught up in holsters gloves that were too big to shoot with ect.
Pat
Alaskapopo,
Any more testing with the PMAGs in extreme cold? I don't think it is a possibility for me in my present location, but a couple of years ago I was working nights in Montana with -40 temperatures and I might go somewhere cold again. Also, it was mentioned that certain PMAG colors might be more tough than others. Any truth to this?
organdonor
01-25-10, 19:34
I sincerely doubt the color of the mag has anything to do with the "problem." There is no problem until a real test with more than two mags is used. Of course if any of you have a scientific reason (the dye perhaps?) as to why the lips cracked, I'd love hear it.potentially, the same rigidity that keeps the pmag's polymer lips from warping when loaded for long periods of time could be the cause of failure at extremely low temps.
We had a record low of -18F a few weeks back and that made me want to leave the state...I don't know how you do it.
Nick. I am retired LE and have a "Very" flexible schedule. I train weekly myself and still instruct LE training. I have a track record of running equipment hard and have broken my share in the last 25 years, I've even been given a moniker because I break shit. I don't intentionally abuse, but do run gear HARD! If you where to send me P Mags of each color I would be happy to do photo and written documentation of said mags in cold weather testing.
I took Chris and Travis' Dynamic carbine 1&2 last summer here in Alaska, they can vouch for me. (The big guy in the middle, if they remember)
With this said I have run OD, Black and FDE P Mags in sub zero, ejecting them onto cement as well a frozen pit run gravel W/O a failure yet, and some of these are gen 1 mags. I can honestly say that I have bent and broken more USGI mags by dropping and stepping on them than P Mags.
if interested PM me.
Until that day,
Darkop
I only have 2 Pmags, bought them before I went to Iraq the last trip (yes they went with me). Love them and plan on buying many more as soon as $$ frees itself up somewhat. How can you tell what gen they are? And what gen are y'all on now?
To the OP. From shooting my rifle side by side with a buddy's on a cold winter day I can tell you the Magpul trigger guard is definitely a worthwhile upgrade. It gave me just that extra amount of room to shoot comfortably with heavy gloves on.
As far as the pmags in -30 or whatever weather. I feel more than comfortable with my pmags in all situations. If its that cold outside and me, my rifle, and mags are outside in it--well it doesn't really matter if the mags work or not. I'm already dead because I've built a fire that gave away my position and whatever I might shoot has already got the drop on me as I'm in the fetal position shivering by the fire.:D
ETA: Oh and while people are begging for gear to T&E, I'll take one of those swanky Magpul lowers;)
geminidglocker
01-25-10, 21:03
P Mags, Pmags, P mags...... Just go get some Lancers. I've owned P Mags, and honestly had no problems with them whatsoever, but I get so sick of hearing about them. I am running Lancers since last Winter and have had zero issues with them. I just like them more since they have the STEEL REINFORCED lips. I go out to shoot when I feel like it, not when the weather says to. I live out in the sticks, so I shoot at night, rain, sleet, etc: The coldest it got this year hear in Vermont was actually pretty warm for these parts.
Just sayin', Lancers are underrated. Check out some of the tests they ran during the R&D for the Lancers. They have a banner on this forum. Another good thing is that they are inexpensive, so you can buy more of them. Sorry, I guess I have found what works for me, so I'm offering my opinion. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5PGfUVK3Os
Alaskapopo
01-25-10, 21:17
Alaskapopo,
Any more testing with the PMAGs in extreme cold? I don't think it is a possibility for me in my present location, but a couple of years ago I was working nights in Montana with -40 temperatures and I might go somewhere cold again. Also, it was mentioned that certain PMAG colors might be more tough than others. Any truth to this?
I am going to Fairbanks on February 12 -14th during that time I will do some cold weather testing. The Troopers have had some issues with their tests on P Mags. Mostly feed lips cracking is what I have been told. But I have not seen the actual mags. Just word of mouth from a few friends of mine on SERT team. Magpul has been great to them however and has sent a lot more replacement mags for testing to see what the problem is. I will post my video results sometime after the 15th of February. Now just pray for a a cold day in Fairbanks. I am also going to test a few Lancer mags, an ARC mag and a GI mag as a reference. Any ideas you guys have for abusing these things in the cold will be done. So send me some ideas.
Pat
Any ideas you guys have for abusing these things in the cold will be done. So send me some ideas.
Pat[/QUOTE]
Pat, I don't know if abusing mags is very beneficial, but how about videoing 20-40 each speed reloads for each color? Also use a couple USGI mags as a control. Do it with empty and partial mags, dropping them to cement and frozen dirt or snow depending on what's available in FBX. After the drop test check for damage. Hopefully FBX will will be having a very cold snap while your there. I wouldn't be surprised if the GI mags become damaged before the Pmags.
Good luck
Until that day,
Darkop
geminidglocker
01-26-10, 19:01
Any ideas you guys have for abusing these things in the cold will be done. So send me some ideas.
Pat
How about just reinforcing the feed lips? Seemed to work on the Lancer product. Is Magpul too good for that? After all, even Orlite mags are reinforced. Just don't buy them if they are below series 21.
Carne Frio
01-26-10, 22:04
It's only been down to minus 40 F once, so far, this winter.
I don't think anyone was out shooting. I have lubed my
AR with some G.I. stuff called LAW, then wiped most of it
off. Coldest temp that I shot it was minus 20F. Also, heavy
loose mittens with liner gloves work fine.:D
Alaskapopo
01-26-10, 22:32
It's only been down to minus 40 F once, so far, this winter.
I don't think anyone was out shooting. I have lubed my
AR with some G.I. stuff called LAW, then wiped most of it
off. Coldest temp that I shot it was minus 20F. Also, heavy
loose mittens with liner gloves work fine.:D
When I worked in Bethel I shot a handgun qualificaiton in -30 below weather.
Pat
Hey Pat, did you ever get a chance to finish this test? I did some testing with 20 rounders but it was only -10 up country. experienced no problems dropping onto roadway. I did have 55 grain tap all over hell and back though :-)
Until that day,
Darkop
Alaskapopo
05-17-10, 19:55
When I went to Fairbanks it was in the 20's. I tried but we never had a Cold snap. I will try again this winter. I have been using these mags for everything and abusing them as much as possible and they are still going strong.
Pat
joe-bananas
05-17-10, 23:23
Nick. I am retired LE and have a "Very" flexible schedule. I train weekly myself and still instruct LE training. I have a track record of running equipment hard and have broken my share in the last 25 years, I've even been given a moniker because I break shit. I don't intentionally abuse, but do run gear HARD! If you where to send me P Mags of each color I would be happy to do photo and written documentation of said mags in cold weather testing.
I took Chris and Travis' Dynamic carbine 1&2 last summer here in Alaska, they can vouch for me. (The big guy in the middle, if they remember)
With this said I have run OD, Black and FDE P Mags in sub zero, ejecting them onto cement as well a frozen pit run gravel W/O a failure yet, and some of these are gen 1 mags. I can honestly say that I have bent and broken more USGI mags by dropping and stepping on them than P Mags.
if interested PM me.
Until that day,
Darkop
Yeah, Darkop was the biggest guy there -- and a darned good shot, too.
I've used my PMags at -21 indicated this past winter near Glennallen specifically to see if they would function and break. No issues feeding or dropping free at that temp in either my Bushmaster, Essential Arms or Mega lowers. I flipped the weapon clockwise smartly as Sensei Costa instructed at our July class here in Anchorage. They flew and flew far but did not break as the smacked themselves empty and partially full onto the ice, snow and exposed gravel. I used black, FDE and FG magazines for this test. No OD, sorry.
Another gent from another firearms related forum (Alaska Cajun or perhaps UAF Grad) had posted YouTube videos running the PMags through their paces in Fairtown when the mags were introduced with similar results.
I do wish I'd had the presence of mind to flip the covers off the PMags when running the test. Not that it really matters, but it would be worth knowing. A few mags from each weapon was enough with thin Home Depot work gloves for my fingers at twenty below.
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