View Full Version : Alan Dershowitz says the state has every right to ‘plunge a needle into your arm’ and
I say let them try.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/alan-dershowitz-says-the-state-has-every-right-to-plunge-a-needle-into-your-arm-and-forcibly-vaccinate-its-citizens
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
"During a recent discussion with Jason Goodman, Dershowitz — who defended President Donald Trump during his Senate impeachment trial — said that the U.S. Constitution permits the government to forcibly vaccinate its citizens in an effort to stop the spread of contagion."
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I sorta wish sometimes the government had the right to forcibly vaccinate people, but they don't.
They should have the right to deny all services to anyone who isn't vaccinated. Dershowitz is a real POS.
I sorta wish sometimes the government had the right to forcibly vaccinate people, but they don't.
They should have the right to deny all services to anyone who isn't vaccinated. Dershowitz is a real POS.
Considering it takes a while for stuff like this to be revealed....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
Due to travel I have been stuck with a lot of different things. I was the happiest person in the world, then yellow fever went from every 10 years to a lifetime hit. Yellow fever the 3 times I have been stuck dropped my like being run over by a truck.
The flu shot also makes me sick.
So if you don't force me to get the flu shot I am pro vaccination. Parents that don't get their children vaccinated need to go to Africa to see victims of polio.
I'm all for encouraging people to do the right thing, but if you think the government should have the ability to force people to do things for the good of the collective, you're living in the wrong country. Britain, Germany, or China are probably better places for you. Americans don't do that.
davidjinks
05-20-20, 16:52
Wow...
I’m glad the government doesn’t have that right. I’m also glad the government doesn’t have the right to deny us our liberty because we CHOOSE not to have something injected in us.
Kinda says a lot about you.
I sorta wish sometimes the government had the right to forcibly vaccinate people, but they don't.
They should have the right to deny all services to anyone who isn't vaccinated. Dershowitz is a real POS.
davidjinks
05-20-20, 16:59
You should read up on all the Africans that have been experimented on with vaccinations. Bill and Melinda gates foundation comes to mind.
Due to travel I have been stuck with a lot of different things. I was the happiest person in the world, then yellow fever went from every 10 years to a lifetime hit. Yellow fever the 3 times I have been stuck dropped my like being run over by a truck.
The flu shot also makes me sick.
So if you don't force me to get the flu shot I am pro vaccination. Parents that don't get their children vaccinated need to go to Africa to see victims of polio.
Averageman
05-20-20, 17:03
Once he has the needle in his hand and lines up to inject, it's going to be difficult to complete with the muzzle of a Glock up his nose.
Anyone named Dershowitz should understand the history of government over reach, tyranny and experimenting on human guinea pigs.
How sad that he's so ignorant of the History of his own people.
Considering it takes a while for stuff like this to be revealed....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
I have no illusions. I knew all about our history of forced sterilization, our fascination with eugenics and the Tuskeegee experiements and worse.
Like I said "sorta wish." It would be nice if people would get their kids inoculated rather than spread diseases that we almost wiped out decades ago because of a very flawed UK study and a former playboy model that became an activist.
It would be nice if everyone who came here from a third world country got inoculated rather than just becoming an incubator for crap that used to only exist in the third world.
It would be nice if everyone was responsible and acted like a grown up. But sadly that will never happen. And while it would be "sorta nice" to make them get inoculated, I'll stop short of that because I don't completely trust the government due to varying levels of both malice and incompetence on the part of government.
Wow...
I’m glad the government doesn’t have that right. I’m also glad the government doesn’t have the right to deny us our liberty because we CHOOSE not to have something injected in us.
Kinda says a lot about you.
Key words there are "sorta wish" which means "don't actually support."
Also said "deny services", never said "deny liberty." Meaning I don't think you should be able to get welfare and not get the same shots we all got as kids.
Wish you'd read a little closer and not put words in my mouth that I never said.
davidjinks
05-20-20, 17:15
I read what you wrote. Spin it however you want.....
Key words there are "sorta wish" which means "don't actually support."
Also said "deny services", never said "deny liberty." Meaning I don't think you should be able to get welfare and not get the same shots we all got as kids.
Wish you'd read a little closer and not put words in my mouth that I never said.
I took the flu shot one & only one time 25 or more years ago & got sick as a dog...haven't had the shot or the flu since. No way am I taking any vaccine that was whipped up in warehouse via courtesy of wuhan!! Pretty sure my crew had the mild case of covid back in March over spring break anyway.
I'm done with this nonsense...both the wife & I are done with masks & she is like one of 2-3 people not wearing while getting groceries. If the establishment says it's necessary to enter, then I respect their policy but not going in. Hell, think I put on my bandana 2x since this shit storm hit. I can see it turning ugly if they prevent renewal of licenses, flying, etc if you don't get the vac.
considering here how many think those that do NOT GET the flu shot are dangerous irresponsible and so on ?
well I reckon many here are in favor of forced needles in arms so no surprise
my times abroad I have had dengue a few times and dysentery and giardia and a few other tropical 3rd world fun things
my doc told me if you get them deal with them in location as that is much better as they often know how to treat them than the poison the docs in the US not used to them put in you to TRY to stop them as none are guaranteed
IMHO same with flu its still a guess and really being in good shape that very few are these days is better then shots all the time
I do feel some child things that are dangerous are fine to get your kid vaccinated for but really quite simple you say NO to a vaccine then no insurance should cover the treatment it would all be out of pocket for the folks
Parents that don't get their children vaccinated need to go to Africa to see victims of polio.
I agree in that Polio, Measels, etc. are all "real" diseases. There's so much lies and propaganda surrounding the election year "Rona".... F@#K NO, would I get an injection for an unknown "virus".
The likelihood of a covid vaccine is doubtful. Theoretically conceivable, but practically, extremely unlikely. There is a company, Moderna Therapeutics, it uses mRNA technology, they can possibly manufacture a vaccine based on the premise that engineered mRNA would instruct the body to produce antibodies rather than the traditional approach of exposing the body to attenuated virus like particles to illicit an immune response. Such a vaccine has never been created to date. Quickest vaccine ever developed that I recall was the mumps and that took about 4 years I believe. Say two years, for covid if you're an optimist. Or maybe never. An HIV vaccine has never been developed and its been, what, about 30 years since its discovery? Most likely treatment for covid/chicom flu would be antiviral therapy, a vaccine is not on the near horizon. Just my humble opinion. So, I wouldn't fret too much about forced vaccination of the populace.
Trouble is, some people can't take the vaccines. Unless you require vaccinations, you don't achieve herd immunity , so those folks are condemned to die on the altar of somebody else's "freedom."
If that were your kid, you might change your tune.
I also have had dysentery, giardia, and my favorite malaria.
I had my kids get all the shot required and then the military gave them the rest.
If someone has a child that has proven to have negative reaction to one vaccine. I would say a smart parents first question should be can they safely get the rest of the needed shots.
I get a flu shot almost every year now since my daughter was born, as I picked up almost every sickness from her daycare. Now with the flu shot, I rest a couple of days and really don't get sick during the year.
This covid vax push worries me though..
@univibe
What are the specific reasons you are citing here preventing vaccination? Every vaccine is different, you can’t just say I’m allergic to needles. Even if a person does have an allergy to a component of a vaccine, that can be treated.
Averageman
05-20-20, 20:31
I don't know what the quality of the work is on this vaccine, but if we get it next Spring, that's a year.
It just doesn't happen that fast
I think I will keep an eye on the results for a year or two.
I read what you wrote. Spin it however you want.....
Suffice to say you read it but didn't get it. I thought my meaning would be obvious, I guess it wasn't.
I wrote exactly:
"I sorta wish sometimes the government had the right to forcibly vaccinate people, but they don't."
If I didn't want it to actually happen, I would have said "the government should have the right" not "I sorta wish" and then pointed out they actually don't have the right. I can understand how that statement by itself might be misunderstood.
Then I wrote:
"They should have the right to deny all services to anyone who isn't vaccinated."
And this I believe, but again I said services and YOU substituted liberty which is something completely different.
I then ended with:
"Dershowitz is a real POS."
And that should have really cleared things up, because I completely disagree with Dershowitz's opinion. No spin needed, just comprehension. If something wasn't completely clear my very next post should have clarified everything. And you could have simply asked instead of changing words, etc.
I agree in that Polio, Measels, etc. are all "real" diseases. There's so much lies and propaganda surrounding the election year "Rona".... F@#K NO, would I get an injection for an unknown "virus".
That is also an important distinction.
If we are talking about getting vaccinated for known and preventable viruses but some idiot chooses not to because he believes internet conspiracy crap that is one I have a problem with.
But unproven, untested or largely unreliable...that is something else entirely.
https://youtu.be/JSbT7JVNEU4
@univibe
What are the specific reasons you are citing here preventing vaccination? Every vaccine is different, you can’t just say I’m allergic to needles. Even if a person does have an allergy to a component of a vaccine, that can be treated.
There are people with an intolerance to vaccinations, e.g. certain autoimmune syndromes.
We seem to be heading backwards. Smallpox, polio, whooping cough, red measles. These were not annoyances; they used to take a terrible toll on people, particularly the young.
People like Pasteur, Salk and Sabin were hailed as heroes when their vaccines reduced these scourges to bad memories.
Now we fall for whatever Qanon and Hollywood actresses peddle as medical advice.
I don't know what the quality of the work is on this vaccine, but if we get it next Spring, that's a year.
It just doesn't happen that fast
I think I will keep an eye on the results for a year or two.The H1N1 vaccine of 2009 was fast. Early April 09 CDC starts work on vaccine. August 15th FDA announced approval for 4 vaccines. October 5th first doses given in the US. Nov 16th approval for 5th vaccine. Dec 18th first 100 million doses available for ordering
There are people with an intolerance to vaccinations, e.g. certain autoimmune syndromes.
We seem to be heading backwards. Smallpox, polio, whooping cough, red measles. These were not annoyances; they used to take a terrible toll on people, particularly the young.
People like Pasteur, Salk and Sabin were hailed as heroes when their vaccines reduced these scourges to bad memories.
Now we fall for whatever Qanon and Hollywood actresses peddle as medical advice.
And on this we agree.
Fauchi was a hero in the 1988 presidential debate.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/george-hw-bush-trump-anthony-fauci-coronavirus-aids-deep-state-twitter-a9416786.html
https://www.lwv.org/newsroom/press-releases/league-refuses-help-perpetrate-fraud
I understand the necessity for some vaccines, MMR and so on. Having said that, no vaccine should be mandatory past basic inoculations as a child, and even those should be spaced out. My body, my choice, right?
considering here how many think those that do NOT GET the flu shot are dangerous irresponsible and so on ?
well I reckon many here are in favor of forced needles in arms so no surprise
my times abroad I have had dengue a few times and dysentery and giardia and a few other tropical 3rd world fun things
my doc told me if you get them deal with them in location as that is much better as they often know how to treat them than the poison the docs in the US not used to them put in you to TRY to stop them as none are guaranteed
IMHO same with flu its still a guess and really being in good shape that very few are these days is better then shots all the time
I do feel some child things that are dangerous are fine to get your kid vaccinated for but really quite simple you say NO to a vaccine then no insurance should cover the treatment it would all be out of pocket for the folks
I had giardia, but not third world: San Diego. I also had cholera, and I had the vaccine.
I get the flu vaccine because my boss tells me I have to. If my institution did not require it, I probably wouldn't. The whole risk management matrix and all.
Also deciding what vaccines should/should not be mandatory is a slippery slope of power grabbing vs personal/parental authority. My kids have some vaccines, but not all vaccines. They will not get a CV vaccine.
The childhood ones I have no problem with.
That said, I do not get flu shots. My wife is an RN and when she gets a patient admitted for the flu she always asks "Did you get the flu shot?". Every single one answers "Yes". Anecdotal for sure and a sample of one person's inquiries, but enough for me. The biggest reason is that my dad began developing symptoms of what eventually killed him within two weeks of getting a flu shot. He died of CIDP, which is a disease "cousin" to Guillain-Barre (in fact there is a "Guillain-Barre/CIDP Foundation", so they are closely related). GB is what started happening after Swine Flu inoculations were given in the late 70's. There is no proven or unproven genetic link as to whether I have a propensity for it being related to my dad. I'll err on the side of caution. Besides, they swear up and down the flu shot doesn't make you "sick", yet everyone I know says they feel like crap for a day or two when they get one. I'll take my chances thank you very much. Ever wonder why many places of employment want to give them on a Friday? :rolleyes:
Now a COVID vaccine? I'll let it be Beta-tested for quite a while first. I won't be anywhere near the front of the line for sure.
Here's something else to ponder: will the entities forcing this be financially liable if you get GB or CIDP? Can you (or your surviving family) sue the living shit out of ANYONE involved? i.e. the vaccine manufacturer, the distributor, and the employer forcing you to take it? If not then maybe you ought to wonder why that is.....
ABNAK, why do you think the Republicans are pushing for business to be immune from Corona related law suits.Billions of dollars to be made world wide for a Corona vaccine, but getting a class action law suit would ruin your bottom line.
Then you have leaders that want you to get chipped at the same time you get vaccinated.
The whole thing is smelling riper than a barn yard in August.
The Army made me get the smallpox vaccine and that was one of the worst sicknesses I've had. They, of course, gave it to us the day before leave...
I never get the flu shot as a civilian and I've never had a terrible flu. I won't get this new vaccine unless my work forces me- I'm DoD civ- and I don't think people should be forced.
The childhood ones I have no problem with.
That said, I do not get flu shots. My wife is an RN and when she gets a patient admitted for the flu she always asks "Did you get the flu shot?". Every single one answers "Yes". Anecdotal for sure and a sample of one person's inquiries, but enough for me. The biggest reason is that my dad began developing symptoms of what eventually killed him within two weeks of getting a flu shot. He died of CIDP, which is a disease "cousin" to Guillain-Barre (in fact there is a "Guillain-Barre/CIDP Foundation", so they are closely related). GB is what started happening after Swine Flu inoculations were given in the late 70's. There is no proven or unproven genetic link as to whether I have a propensity for it being related to my dad. I'll err on the side of caution. Besides, they swear up and down the flu shot doesn't make you "sick", yet everyone I know says they feel like crap for a day or two when they get one. I'll take my chances thank you very much. Ever wonder why many places of employment want to give them on a Friday? :rolleyes:
Now a COVID vaccine? I'll let it be Beta-tested for quite a while first. I won't be anywhere near the front of the line for sure.
Here's something else to ponder: will the entities forcing this be financially liable if you get GB or CIDP? Can you (or your surviving family) sue the living shit out of ANYONE involved? i.e. the vaccine manufacturer, the distributor, and the employer forcing you to take it? If not then maybe you ought to wonder why that is.....
My experience has been the opposite. Nearly every patient I’ve gotten with the flu in the past few years has not gotten the shot. A few have, but most haven’t. In fact, most of my suspected flu cases that had gotten the shot were early this year....
Dr. Bullseye
05-21-20, 11:18
Someone should remind Alan the Constitution is about INDIVIDUAL rights, not group rights. You are never under an obligation to undergo a medical procedure to protect someone else.
ABNAK, why do you think the Republicans are pushing for business to be immune from Corona related law suits.Billions of dollars to be made world wide for a Corona vaccine, but getting a class action law suit would ruin your bottom line.
Then you have leaders that want you to get chipped at the same time you get vaccinated.
The whole thing is smelling riper than a barn yard in August.
I think the intent of that was to prevent someone from suing, say, a concert venue, bar, theater, etc. if you contracted the virus because they didn't "take proper precautions". I think any possible vaccine liabilities were outside the scope of those proposals at the time they were made. Now can they be included in that type of legislation? You betcha.
Diamondback
05-21-20, 11:57
I think the intent of that was to prevent someone from suing, say, a concert venue, bar, theater, etc. if you contracted the virus because they didn't "take proper precautions". I think any possible vaccine liabilities were outside the scope of those proposals at the time they were made. Now can they be included in that type of legislation? You betcha.
OTOH, once a bill becomes law any intent not explicitly stated in its text is considered irrelevant by the courts, like 14th Amdt with anchor-babies.
Unless you require vaccinations, you don't achieve herd immunity....
This is scientifically false, and you probably know that.....or maybe you don't.
Averageman
05-21-20, 13:56
This is scientifically false, and you probably know that.....or maybe you don't.
MMMMMMmmmm Hmmm.
I had giardia, but not third world: San Diego. I also had cholera, and I had the vaccine.
I get the flu vaccine because my boss tells me I have to. If my institution did not require it, I probably wouldn't. The whole risk management matrix and all.
Also deciding what vaccines should/should not be mandatory is a slippery slope of power grabbing vs personal/parental authority. My kids have some vaccines, but not all vaccines. They will not get a CV vaccine.
yeah not fun to get for sure
Maui had a huge problem with Dengue about 15 years ago and also had about 3 or more cases of the flesh eating disease going on so even in our clean 1st world we have stuff :)
The_War_Wagon
05-21-20, 16:09
Alan Dershowitz says...
https://i.imgflip.com/42d0me.jpg
manbearpig
05-21-20, 20:36
In 1976, there was a nationwide vaccination program ordered by President Gerald Ford due to an outbreak of swine flu. Some people who were vaccinated developed Guillain-Barre syndrome and some died. Not a ****ing chance will I allow myself to be vaccinated for covid.
From what I've read about GB it seems you're more likely to get it from a regular flu. The vaccine for the 2009 swine flu coursed less than 2 GB syndrome for every million people vaccinated.
Canada, followed 4.4 million residents vaccinated against the H1N1 "swine flu" in late 2009. Over the next six months, 25 people who received the vaccine developed GBS. Across the Quebec province, however, another 58 people who were not vaccinated also developed GBS.
manbearpig
05-21-20, 22:16
My point is that with new vaccines or drugs, there are always potentially significant risks, even for vaccines/drugs that are tested rigorously in prospective clinical trials. For example, the antiepileptic drug felbamate was tested in clinical trials for years without any major safety issues but it wasn't until the drug reached the broader population were patients killed due to liver toxicity and aplastic anemia. It's even more difficult to assess what the long term side effects of a treatment may be. For example, if someone were to become diagnosed with Guillain-Barre or multiple sclerosis 5 or 10 years after being vaccinated. Setting aside the whole issue of the potential risks of being treated with a new vaccine or drug, it's simply flat out wrong to force treatment upon someone without their proper consent.
Suffice to say you read it but didn't get it. I thought my meaning would be obvious, I guess it wasn't.
No dog in the fight but it didn't read well to me either. Out of character for you. The "sorta" kinda read like "sometimes". I sorta wish, I sometimes wish. Made me think 'what?' Let's just say you have phrased things way better about 99.9999% of the time. Nothing for you guys to go on about. No big deal.
I get what you are saying. It's like we had things pretty much fixed and now all this shit is migrating back in and we have to re-cure it.
If someone comes out with a covid19 vaccine for Christmas, I just want a lump of coal. If they get one in a year from now and run it 6 months and people are not dropping like flies.... I'm not getting any younger. I had a bad reaction to swine Flue shot decades ago. Not as bad as some but never had a flu shot since. I want to see some stats on people my age, fitness level ( ok, lack of fitness level ) etc.. what are my odds type deal.
A COVID-19 vaccine is like a unicorn, it doesn't exist, people write about it, talk about it, but it is not real. It is likely not going to be real either.
I would not count on it coming about any time soon, or really at all. If, and that's a big effin IF it is created it will be several years off and the efficacy probably won't be all that great for the comorbidity and pre-existing condition crowd.
If it does get created I'm not sure I would take it or not, I guess that depends on how things go over the next year or so. I definitely would not be okay with being forced to take it and wouldn't want others to be forced to take it either.
The Constitution does not grant the power of the state to force me to take medicine without my consent. Period.
That shit is tyranny plain and simple.
Question- why is Thimerosal (Ethyl-Mercury) a component of some vaccines, even after AAP recommended removal of this component in 1999?
I actually hate the vaccine discussion. It's like abortion. Sides are drawn and almost no one will ever concede anything. Very extreme points of view from side to side. Tons of Bullshit.
I am somewhere in the middle. Yes, I am fine with vaccinations for children (Some of them), but not at the timeframe some are scheduled for. I do not believe people should be forced to give them, however.
I cannot get a clear answer on why Thimerosal is still a component of the multi-dose FLU vaccine.
"It's a preservative that prevents vial infection".
Sure, but why not use something else that isn't mercury? Like they do in other vaccines?
Everything has risks and side effects, one must decide for themselves what risk they wish to take. Wether it's with being vaccinated or not, there are risks. It should absolutely be a choice.
I have had the flu shot a few times and every time it makes me sick as shit. I'm healthy without it and have only encountered the flu while getting the vax.
Plus the flu vaccine efficacy is like averaged at what, 27-35% for year to year data? This year it was very ineffective, I believe somewhere in the 17-22% range. But most of those FLU deaths are probably being counted as COVID, so, oh well.
Diamondback
05-21-20, 23:12
Ya know who else thought the State had a right to perform injections etc. as it saw fit? A dude named Mengele... Dersh might wanna think twice, and long and hard, before he re-opens *that* Pandora's Box.
No dog in the fight but it didn't read well to me either. Out of character for you. The "sorta" kinda read like "sometimes". I sorta wish, I sometimes wish. Made me think 'what?' Let's just say you have phrased things way better about 99.9999% of the time. Nothing for you guys to go on about. No big deal.
I get what you are saying. It's like we had things pretty much fixed and now all this shit is migrating back in and we have to re-cure it.
If someone comes out with a covid19 vaccine for Christmas, I just want a lump of coal. If they get one in a year from now and run it 6 months and people are not dropping like flies.... I'm not getting any younger. I had a bad reaction to swine Flue shot decades ago. Not as bad as some but never had a flu shot since. I want to see some stats on people my age, fitness level ( ok, lack of fitness level ) etc.. what are my odds type deal.
That's where I was going with that so I still "sorta wish" but I stop short at agreeing that anyone should be forcibly vaccinated. There is also a giant distinction between vaccinations for "known entities" such as polio, measles and the like and experimental new vaccines for new viruses.
For the former I think the government should do everything in it's power to make sure everyone is protected with the sole exception of people who are going to have a negative result or negative reaction (this should be an obvious exemption) to standard vaccinations.
For the latter, I think it should be completely voluntary until the vaccine is a "known entity." And until we have that, basically isolating society is the only other practical tool left and we have seen first hand that the solution comes with many problems. And I honestly believe had we not done do, C-19 had the potential to be catastrophic.
At any rate I appreciate you "getting me" and if my wording was poor it's because it wasn't a long, thought out idea but more off the cuff.
A COVID-19 vaccine is like a unicorn, it doesn't exist, people write about it, talk about it, but it is not real. It is likely not going to be real either.
I'm not sure about absolutes in either direction. They have a few interesting ideas but we are still at the clinical trials stage last I checked. Lots and lots of work that still needs to be done and either we will have something that works or we won't.
And just because we are coming out of lockdown, doesn't mean there won't be a round two of the same virus next fall.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 07:17
Anti-vax people are a special breed of stupid and I’m at least glad they are in both the Democrat and Republican parties so I don’t have to exclusively side with a bunch of morons. It is sad that the party that is supposed to be about common sense and factual based arguments has so many that falls victim to so many of these moronic anti-vax talking points that have been debunked time after time. It’s like talking to a gun grabber, you can show them the cold hard data and they stick their head in the sand.
Vaccines are an issue like capital punishment. The principle can be soundly reasoned. Yet the problem of injustice in the courts and injustice in the vaccine distribution raises all the red flags. If the side effects of vaccines were as zealously shared as the marketed benefits and if the vaccines were produced locally by small businesses and if half the medical community wasn’t in bed with tyranny, I guarantee we’d see a different debate around it.
SteyrAug, I understood you the first time but then again I’ve been reading your political philosophy on here for years.
Anti-vax people are a special breed of stupid and I’m at least glad they are in both the Democrat and Republican parties so I don’t have to exclusively side with a bunch of morons. It is sad that the party that is supposed to be about common sense and factual based arguments has so many that falls victim to so many of these moronic anti-vax talking points that have been debunked time after time. It’s like talking to a gun grabber, you can show them the cold hard data and they stick their head in the sand.
Define "anti-vax". Is that any needle stuck in you? Just those who don't want their kids to have the basic stuff like we all did? Please elaborate.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 07:42
Define "anti-vax". Is that any needle stuck in you? Just those who don't want their kids to have the basic stuff like we all did? Please elaborate.
Well there are certainly levels to the stupidity. You have the ultimate morons who think it causes autism and are against all vaccines. Then you have the people who think they have evil chemicals in them because they watched a YouTube video. Then there are the types that think they should be spread out more even though it has been studied more than extensively. And at the bottom of the list I’d put the anti flu shot people. I’ve had the flu shot discussion too many times and would rather not repeat it, someone already mentioned the GB syndrome coming from the flu itself and anyone who thinks they can get the flu from the shot is willfully ignorant.
I understand that there is always a risk with something like a vaccine and there are people who truly shouldn’t get them. However, as a whole, the benefit outweighs the risk by an incredible amount. If you realize you are at risk then you should abstain and that’s why it’s important for the rest of us that are not at risk to get vaccinated.
I’m also a bit weary of taking the first COVID vaccine that comes to market since the levels of testing that are normally done might be a bit rushed. For things that we have studied extensively I don’t see any excuse other than for legit medical reasons. The fact that measles outbreaks are happening again is absolutely insanity and the direct cause of some of the dumbest breed of humans we’ve had to deal with.
[Caveat: what I'm about to type does NOT apply to the normal childhood vaccines we've all had]
I heard a guy recently mention something about vaccines from a perspective I've never thought about. He said if you didn't get the flu or COVID (if it ever materializes) vaccine then you are only a threat to those others who have chosen not to do so. I mean, if 80% of people got the flu/COVID vaccine and 20% did not, those 20% are really only a threat to the others in that 20% group 'cause everyone else is "immune" due to taking the vaccine. His point was that you're really only a potential threat to the others who have chosen not to do so. I mulled it over, as I hadn't looked at it that way, and thought "Uh, well, yeah, I guess that's plausible".
To be sure, a large enough group choosing to not get vaccinated for X, Y, or Z, probably ensures that X, Y, or Z will not fizzle out as a disease. So yeah, an overwhelming percentage of a population getting vaccinated may help ensure the disease disappears for good so there's that (hence why smallpox was all but eradicated from this planet at one point). It will still be a threat to those not vaccinated, and that would be the consequence for not getting it.
Couple of other clarifications are in order:
No, you don't get the flu from a flu shot. They will, however, make you feel like shit for a day or two for most people. As I mentioned earlier, why do companies that push the flu shot for employees do it quite often on a Friday? Hell, if it's so benign then give it on a Monday. But we both know why, don't we? I'll pass on feeling like shit for a day or two and take my chances.
No, GB and similar diseases are not solely caused by vaccines. Not at all. GB happens spontaneously in society even where a vaccine hasn't been involved. That said, GB can be triggered by a vaccine......the Swine Flu vaccine of the 70's is a perfect example. Yeah, that was nearly 45 years ago, medicine has advanced, blah blah blah. Whatever, I'll take my chances.
If there ever is a COVID vaccine I will at least consider it once many months have passed and the potential side effects are nil.
One more point: it's easy to say "One in every 100,000 [or whatever the figure is] people will have a reaction from this vaccine, it's for the greater good". That's all fine and well until it's YOU or a loved one that becomes that 1 in 100,000 people.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 08:19
.One more point: it's easy to say "One in every 100,000 [or whatever the figure is] people will have a reaction from this vaccine, it's for the greater good". That's all fine and well until it's YOU or a loved one that becomes that 1 in 100,000 people.
You’re making the same argument that people are making for not opening due to COVID. Sure the chances are rare you or a loved one dies but people will die and it’s all find until it’s you or someone you love. Everything we do in life carries risk, you have a better chance of dying in a car accident on the way to work than you do having complications from a vaccine that you didn’t expect.
Also, I’ve never heard of companies pushing flu shots on a Friday, every place I’ve worked that had them did them throughout the week.
You’re making the same argument that people are making for not opening due to COVID. Sure the chances are rare you or a loved one dies but people will die and it’s all find until it’s you or someone you love. Everything we do in life carries risk, you have a better chance of dying in a car accident on the way to work than you do having complications from a vaccine that you didn’t expect.
Also, I’ve never heard of companies pushing flu shots on a Friday, every place I’ve worked that had them did them throughout the week.
Bingo! That includes not taking a flu shot or COVID vaccine. Freedom, just like stupid, can hurt sometimes, but it's still freedom.
Big difference from what I'm saying about certain vaccines and not re-opening society. If you are at-risk and society re-opens, then it is incumbent on you to keep a low profile. With a mandatory vaccine someone else makes it incumbent on me to take it. Lots of people don't like that, myself included. That is up to and including a flu shot, which is pushed really really hard these days and is only going to get worse. Hell, where I work if you don't get the flu shot you're supposed to wear a mask all winter long.....why not just a Star of David badge with "Ein Juden" on it? (because of COVID we have to wear masks until further notice, so right now it's a moot point)
I remember Neal Boortz discussing the HPV vaccine with the 2 largest/most vocal groups in the debate being those wanting it forced on people and those wanting it totally banned altogether.
As he pointed out, 2 wildly different points of view on the same issue with both sides being equally in the wrong.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 09:33
Freedom does increase risk but we have many laws that limit individual freedom because they pose a risk to the rest of the population. You can’t drive as fast as you want because you could endanger others. You should have to get a measles vaccine because if you don’t you put others at risk. Before the question is asked or argument made, it’s because not all vaccines are 100% effective and people have medical issues that prevent them from getting vaccinated. If everyone else gets them though then the at risk population is basically ensured to not get infected.
Obviously there’s a line to be drawn somewhere or we go down the slippery slope argument that gets us nowhere, for proven vaccinations I think they should be required by law to participate in society unless you have a medical exemption. I don’t think the flu shot falls under that category but I think you’re stupid if you don’t get one and don’t have any medical reason not to.
So requiring vaccines is akin to requiring people not to drive 100 mph down the freeway. Oh my aching head.
Freedom does increase risk but we have many laws that limit individual freedom because they pose a risk to the rest of the population. You can’t drive as fast as you want because you could endanger others. You should have to get a measles vaccine because if you don’t you put others at risk. Before the question is asked or argument made, it’s because not all vaccines are 100% effective and people have medical issues that prevent them from getting vaccinated. If everyone else gets them though then the at risk population is basically ensured to not get infected.
Obviously there’s a line to be drawn somewhere or we go down the slippery slope argument that gets us nowhere, for proven vaccinations I think they should be required by law to participate in society unless you have a medical exemption. I don’t think the flu shot falls under that category [Agreed on that part.] but I think you’re stupid if you don’t get one and don’t have any medical reason not to.
Now the second part of that sentence cuts both ways: I see it as lemming-like 'tardedness if you rush out and eagerly get the flu shot, feel "under the weather" for a day or two, and also risk the potential side effects for what, maybe an average 45% (as of Feb. 2020) effectiveness? No thanks, but that's my opinion, you have yours.
Averageman
05-22-20, 11:38
I've not had "The Flu" (whatever that means now) for over twenty years, in that time I have never been vaccinated.
Following the political/scientific drama going along with COVID-19, I don't see the risk versus reward in stepping up to the front of the line for a vaccine that's being rushed through the system.
Honestly, the political climate makes trusting the people wanting me to take a vaccination a little shaky.
When Cuomo gets a pass for filling Old Folks Homes with Corona Virus infected patients and that virus starts burning through the Elderly population in those homes, he's allowed to say "Old People are Going to Die." and nobody in the MSM is going to call him out?
Nope, I think I can wait until 2021, if I need one at all.
Why, then is a consent form required for everything else, if one has "no right to refuse?" Or, is the law bendable based on the politics? The professor? Maybe a collective curtain - "Don't look at the man behind the curtain" just do what he/she/it say.
BTW, I take the flu shot because I want the flu shot. When force is involved or implied, I get suspicious.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 12:14
So requiring vaccines is akin to requiring people not to drive 100 mph down the freeway. Oh my aching head.
It must hurt if you read my post and that was the message you came away with. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 12:21
Now the second part of that sentence cuts both ways: I see it as lemming-like 'tardedness if you rush out and eagerly get the flu shot, feel "under the weather" for a day or two, and also risk the potential side effects for what, maybe an average 45% (as of Feb. 2020) effectiveness? No thanks, but that's my opinion, you have yours.
I’ve literally never had a side effect other than the actual poke in the arm from the flu shot and Target gives me $5 to get it done. I’ve had the flu and that’s miserable so I’ll take getting paid to lessen my chance of getting the flu even if it’s not fully effective.
However, I see that wildly different from vaccines like measles. If you don’t think people should get those then you’re a special kind of stupid.
As far as requiring the COVID vaccine, I would not support that for multiple reasons but if it went through all the rigors that a vaccine should I would not oppose getting it. But I’m also not concerned about being microchipped and think we are in a police state ruled by an evil child sacrificing cabal that meets in the basement of a pizza place.
Regardless of the efficacy or effectiveness of the flu shot or any other vaccine for that matter, people should not be forced to take them by the state. Period. That goes so opposite of the idea of Liberty, individual rights and what this country "stood" for, should be "stands" for...
Sure, anti-vaxers are typically drooling tin foil hatters, but I don't want them to be forced to take vaccines if they do not consent to.
I am MUCH more concerned with folks who want the State to force others to do things against their will without their consent than I am a bunch of silly people that don't want and fear vaccines. Most of the anti-vaxxers live in Portland Oregon and California anyways, so who cares, most of the illegals in CALI don't have their vaccines anyways.
Not everyone who doesn't want vaccinations is worried about the "child sacrificing pizza cabal". Some of them do it for religious reasons, some are truly afraid of the vaccines based on misinformation, some people just don't want to take them.
It's unconstitutional, and very wrong to force people to be vaccinated without their consent.
Are we in a total police state, no. But when a dude on his surf board out into e ocean alone on an empty beach is arrested and taken to jail for disobeying a dictate of a governor, or when a restaurant gets their license pulled for opening up against the will of a governor; not for breaking laws, just for not following orders from politicians- I can't say we are NOT in some type of soft police state.
Regardless of the efficacy or effectiveness of the flu shot or any other vaccine for that matter, people should not be forced to take them by the state. Period. That goes so opposite of the idea of Liberty, individual rights and what this country "stood" for, should be "stands" for...
Sure, anti-vaxers are typically drooling tin foil hatters, but I don't want them to be forced to take vaccines if they do not consent to.
I am MUCH more concerned with folks who want the State to force others to do things against their will without their consent than I am a bunch of silly people that don't want and fear vaccines. Most of the anti-vaxxers live in Portland Oregon and California anyways, so who cares, most of the illegals in CALI don't have their vaccines anyways.
Not everyone who doesn't want vaccinations is worried about the "child sacrificing pizza cabal". Some of them do it for religious reasons, some are truly afraid of the vaccines based on misinformation, some people just don't want to take them.
It's unconstitutional, and very wrong to force people to be vaccinated without their consent.
Are we in a total police state, no. But when a dude on his surf board out into e ocean alone on an empty beach is arrested and taken to jail for disobeying a dictate of a governor, or when a restaurant gets their license pulled for opening up against the will of a governor; not for breaking laws, just for not following orders from politicians- I can't say we are NOT in some type of soft police state.
Agreed. While you can argue that some vaccines are more important than others, you cannot mandate that someone should have any. To say 'I think this one should be mandatory, but it's OK to refuse that one' misses the entire point by miles.
I’ve literally never had a side effect other than the actual poke in the arm from the flu shot and Target gives me $5 to get it done. I’ve had the flu and that’s miserable so I’ll take getting paid to lessen my chance of getting the flu even if it’s not fully effective.
However, I see that wildly different from vaccines like measles. If you don’t think people should get those then you’re a special kind of stupid.
As far as requiring the COVID vaccine, I would not support that for multiple reasons but if it went through all the rigors that a vaccine should I would not oppose getting it. But I’m also not concerned about being microchipped and think we are in a police state ruled by an evil child sacrificing cabal that meets in the basement of a pizza place.
Agreed on that for sure.
What is it, measles/mumps/rubella, polio, and smallpox? I have the little circle scar on the back of my arm from the smallpox one (born in '65 so they were still doing it then). I'm not sure if mumps was given then or not because I had the mumps as a child, on "both sides" as they used to say.
I remember after 9-11 when there was talk of smallpox possibly being used as a bio-weapon. At the time there was some speculation as to whether the smallpox vaccines given decades before (like me) were still offering protection or not after all that time.
Anti-vax people are a special breed of stupid and I’m at least glad they are in both the Democrat and Republican parties so I don’t have to exclusively side with a bunch of morons. It is sad that the party that is supposed to be about common sense and factual based arguments has so many that falls victim to so many of these moronic anti-vax talking points that have been debunked time after time. It’s like talking to a gun grabber, you can show them the cold hard data and they stick their head in the sand.
Interestingly, the medical-industrial complex labels anyone who deviates from any vaccination or vax schedule as "anti-" and "non-compliant." This includes people who don't take them for medical reasons, religious reasons, because thermosol-gives-you-brain-tumor reasons, even if you want to break up the bundling for your children so they don't get them all at once.
FWIW, my kids have had most but not all, for a couple different reasons. Our pediatrician is OK with it.
Interestingly, the medical-industrial complex labels anyone who deviates from any vaccination or vax schedule as "anti-" and "non-compliant." This includes people who don't take them for medical reasons, religious reasons, because thermosol-gives-you-brain-tumor reasons, even if you want to break up the bundling for your children so they don't get them all at once.
FWIW, my kids have had most but not all, for a couple different reasons. Our pediatrician is OK with it.
Oh I like that one! New spin on an old favorite!
It must hurt if you read my post and that was the message you came away with. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Hurt? What are you talking about. I noticed you didn't actually deny the truth of what I said, but be that as it may, what I have gotten out of your various posts is the idea that you're pretty much on board with a heavy handed, most highly likely, non-constitutional approach to this whole lock down scheme, driven by various scientific "experts" that along with the MSM, spread about as much FUD as humanly possible. Are you actually in agreement with the savior Demo's like Whitmer, and those of like mind? You sound like an arrogant statist with all your "these people are stupid morons" talk concerning people that aren't 100% on board with the scientific party line....vaccinate or face doom and a pissed off bunch of tyrants. Just to be clear, I'm not an anti-vaxer, although I know a few. I've had plenty of vaccinations in my life beginning in childhood, through the military, and most recently taking the shingles vaccine. I take them or not depending on the info I can gather about their safety and effectiveness. I forgo the flu vaccines simply because I consider them not particularly effective. I will do the same for the Covid vaccine, if and when it shows up. I also believe a legitimate gov't has the authority to quarantine SICK people, not healthy people. After reading the laws in Calif. I have found no authority to quarantine healthy people, and now they have set a precedent for future abuses. God help us if more radical Dem's get in power, especially at the national level. Will they and their "scientists/doctors" declare "climate change" a real existential and humanity affecting crisis and really go to work saving us at any cost? I wouldn't put it past them for a minute.
Then you have leaders that want you to get chipped at the same time you get vaccinated.
Just curious, I keep seeing memes on this, but reference?
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 18:33
Hurt? What are you talking about. I noticed you didn't actually deny the truth of what I said, but be that as it may, what I have gotten out of your various posts is the idea that you're pretty much on board with a heavy handed, most highly likely, non-constitutional approach to this whole lock down scheme, driven by various scientific "experts" that along with the MSM, spread about as much FUD as humanly possible. Are you actually in agreement with the savior Demo's like Whitmer, and those of like mind? You sound like an arrogant statist with all your "these people are stupid morons" talk concerning people that aren't 100% on board with the scientific party line....vaccinate or face doom and a pissed off bunch of tyrants. Just to be clear, I'm not an anti-vaxer, although I know a few. I've had plenty of vaccinations in my life beginning in childhood, through the military, and most recently taking the shingles vaccine. I take them or not depending on the info I can gather about their safety and effectiveness. I forgo the flu vaccines simply because I consider them not particularly effective. I will do the same for the Covid vaccine, if and when it shows up. I also believe a legitimate gov't has the authority to quarantine SICK people, not healthy people. After reading the laws in Calif. I have found no authority to quarantine healthy people, and now they have set a precedent for future abuses. God help us if more radical Dem's get in power, especially at the national level. Will they and their "scientists/doctors" declare "climate change" a real existential and humanity affecting crisis and really go to work saving us at any cost? I wouldn't put it past them for a minute.
You sound angry Tom and that anger seems to concoct all sorts of straw men you want to argue against. I didn’t deny what you said because I don’t see discussions with you as a productive use of my time. If you weren’t so busy wanting to find reasons to argue with me you might realize your views of me are incorrect and something you created in your mind because for whatever reason you seem to seek out feeling persecuted.
If you actually want to discuss any of these various topics I’d be glad to but not when every response from you carries the same feeling of having a persecution complex.
Also, I don’t care nor admire anyone running your backwards state. I moved somewhere that I wouldn’t have to be subjected to such buffoonery and is one reason I am able to go out in public and businesses are able to operate.
You sound angry Tom and that anger seems to concoct all sorts of straw men you want to argue against. I didn’t deny what you said because I don’t see discussions with you as a productive use of my time. If you weren’t so busy wanting to find reasons to argue with me you might realize your views of me are incorrect and something you created in your mind because for whatever reason you seem to seek out feeling persecuted.
If you actually want to discuss any of these various topics I’d be glad to but not when every response from you carries the same feeling of having a persecution complex.
Also, I don’t care nor admire anyone running your backwards state. I moved somewhere that I wouldn’t have to be subjected to such buffoonery and is one reason I am able to go out in public and businesses are able to operate.
More ridiculous babble...I make one small comment about you using "vehicle laws" as a pretext to force people to "get vaccinated" and now you're babbling about me being angry and suffering from a persecution complex. The truth of the matter is even though you probably think guns are cool and all you have shown a propensity for "big state" rolling over us for "our safety", forget about your inalienable rights fellas'. What's next in your amateur psychoanalysis...I've got mommy issues? Are you really a Democrat that just likes guns?
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 19:03
More ridiculous babble...I make one small comment about you using "vehicle laws" as a pretext to force people to "get vaccinated" and now you're babbling about me being angry and suffering from a persecution complex. The truth of the matter is even though you probably think guns are cool and all you have shown a propensity for "big state" rolling over us for "our safety", forget about your inalienable rights fellas'. What's next in your amateur psychoanalysis...I've got mommy issues? Are you really a Democrat that just likes guns?
Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice weekend Tom.
Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice weekend Tom.
You've been trying to prove your point for a while, I'm just not buying it, sounds like a few other guys aren't buying it either.
I will have a nice weekend hopefully. I'm shooting a USPSA match tomorrow with my other non-locked down buddies and Memorial day I'm going to a range in the mountains to shoot some more. Are you staying locked down?
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 19:30
You've been trying to prove your point for a while, I'm just not buying it, sounds like a few other guys aren't buying it either.
I will have a nice weekend hopefully. I'm shooting a USPSA match tomorrow with my other non-locked down buddies and Memorial day I'm going to a range in the mountains to shoot some more. Are you staying locked down?
I dunno, I believe ABNAK and I had a decent conversation and understood each other well.
I will be out in the country with family this weekend enjoying some shooting, good eating, and great company. We’d probably go out since restaurants are allowed to be at 50% capacity here but going into town is already a hassle as is so we’ll likely just enjoy the fresh air and relaxing atmosphere.
I dunno, I believe ABNAK and I had a decent conversation and understood each other well.
I will be out in the country with family this weekend enjoying some shooting, good eating, and great company. We’d probably go out since restaurants are allowed to be at 50% capacity here but going into town is already a hassle as is so we’ll likely just enjoy the fresh air and relaxing atmosphere.
That sounds really nice, enjoy it all.
You continue to have a profitable conversation with ABNAK. I'm really not that involved with this conversation other than I read posts from time to time and have made one comment. We just really disagree about certain things concerning this last 2 months and there really isn't much that can be done about it...it's just the way we are and how we think.
That sounds really nice, enjoy it all.
You continue to have a profitable conversation with ABNAK :blink: . I'm really not that involved with this conversation other than I read posts from time to time and have made one comment. We just really disagree about certain things concerning this last 2 months and there really isn't much that can be done about it...it's just the way we are and how we think.
Hell's Bells, we're gettin' paid for this? Can this post count? :p You guys have a pleasant Memorial Day weekend. :D I think a little barrel-heating-up is in order too.
Life's a Hillary
05-22-20, 20:31
That sounds really nice, enjoy it all.
You continue to have a profitable conversation with ABNAK. I'm really not that involved with this conversation other than I read posts from time to time and have made one comment. We just really disagree about certain things concerning this last 2 months and there really isn't much that can be done about it...it's just the way we are and how we think.
I think we disagree less than you think. I do not think the government should be able to tell someone they have to shut down their business, certainly not without compensating them fairly (though I am also fiscally conservative so I don’t like the idea of firing up the printers more than we have).
I also want things to open up as fast as possible and if the price we have to pay for that is simply wearing masks I’m okay with that trade off. I’d rather be inconvenienced by wearing a basic mask than have others lose their livelihood because they cannot go to work. Obviously I would prefer to not have to wear the mask but if it is actually effective, which it seems to be when an infected person is wearing one, then I think it’s worth it. However, I think it should be up to the business owners to determine if said masks should be required, not the governments. I also think that people should respect the rules of a business if they decide to require masks or not and they can choose to shop elsewhere if they disagree with the business’s choice either way.
For some reason it feels that we have to be on one side of the extremes with this situation. I think that both of those sides are wrong, we can take common sense measures that will drastically help prevent further spread so we should while also not making our economy grind to a halt causing many people to be destroyed financially.
Hell's Bells, we're gettin' paid for this? Can this post count? :p You guys have a pleasant Memorial Day weekend. :D I think a little barrel-heating-up is in order too.
Well, being profited isn't always about money....the enriched mind, Aaahhhh the enriched mind. LOL. Everyone should definitely try and shoot stuff tomorrow!
I think we disagree less than you think. I do not think the government should be able to tell someone they have to shut down their business, certainly not without compensating them fairly (though I am also fiscally conservative so I don’t like the idea of firing up the printers more than we have).
I also want things to open up as fast as possible and if the price we have to pay for that is simply wearing masks I’m okay with that trade off. I’d rather be inconvenienced by wearing a basic mask than have others lose their livelihood because they cannot go to work. Obviously I would prefer to not have to wear the mask but if it is actually effective, which it seems to be when an infected person is wearing one, then I think it’s worth it. However, I think it should be up to the business owners to determine if said masks should be required, not the governments. I also think that people should respect the rules of a business if they decide to require masks or not and they can choose to shop elsewhere if they disagree with the business’s choice either way.
For some reason it feels that we have to be on one side of the extremes with this situation. I think that both of those sides are wrong, we can take common sense measures that will drastically help prevent further spread so we should while also not making our economy grind to a halt causing many people to be destroyed financially.
I think I can agree with what you have written, sounds very reasonable and respectful of rights.
At any rate I appreciate you "getting me" and if my wording was poor it's because it wasn't a long, thought out idea but more off the cuff.
100% ...
Key words there are "sorta wish" which means "don't actually support."
Also said "deny services", never said "deny liberty." Meaning I don't think you should be able to get welfare and not get the same shots we all got as kids.
Wish you'd read a little closer and not put words in my mouth that I never said.
Sure sounded pretty socialist to me: sounds like you're back tracking?
If you think any citizen should be forced to do anything to their bodies you are as un-American as it gets. Welfare recipients are citizens with the same constitutional rights, no one has the right to tell them what they can and cannot consume. IF you have a problem with that vote no on welfare, but don't cry when your retired and broke and can't afford food because your medical bills have cleaned out all your assets. If you would prefer not to pay taxes, I suppose you would stop using the roads and highways? I suppose you would stop using the internet which was tax funded? Nearly everything is subsidized, so that makes us all welfare recipients.. My forefathers would be appalled by the herd of ignorant fools sucking up the half truths demanding others do as they do in our trend based, socially engineered society today. I agree with you hatred towards taxation without representation, but lets not blame the most vulnerable people in our society for a system that we all benefit from.
Do you think that IF the vaccines were harmless they would have to lobby and bribe every legislator and judge in the nation to force our children to be vaccinated? And engage in a massive PR campaign? Bill Gates for example is heavily invested in vaccines, and has been pushing them for years: he's a slime ball.
Too many American's have lost the ability to think for themselves and want to be ruled as subjects in some sort of fascist police state. <-- Democrats. It's damn sad and very un-American.
Sure sounded pretty socialist to me: sounds like you're back tracking?
If you think any citizen should be forced to do anything to their bodies you are as un-American as it gets. Welfare recipients are citizens with the same constitutional rights, no one has the right to tell them what they can and cannot consume. IF you have a problem with that vote no on welfare, but don't cry when your retired and broke and can't afford food because your medical bills have cleaned out all your assets. If you would prefer not to pay taxes, I suppose you would stop using the roads and highways? I suppose you would stop using the internet which was tax funded? Nearly everything is subsidized, so that makes us all welfare recipients.. My forefathers would be appalled by the herd of ignorant fools sucking up the half truths demanding others do as they do in our trend based, socially engineered society today. I agree with you hatred towards taxation without representation, but lets not blame the most vulnerable people in our society for a system that we all benefit from.
Do you think that IF the vaccines were harmless they would have to lobby and bribe every legislator and judge in the nation to force our children to be vaccinated? And engage in a massive PR campaign? Bill Gates for example is heavily invested in vaccines, and has been pushing them for years: he's a slime ball.
Too many American's have lost the ability to think for themselves and want to be ruled as subjects in some sort of fascist police state. <-- Democrats. It's damn sad and very un-American.
I think I'm too bored to even address your pointless accusations and absurd ideas.
Yep, pretty sure if you really think after reading everything in this thread that I'm a back tracking socialist that it just isn't worth my time to try and explain anything to you.
Oh look, TCM is showing war movies.
Yep, it's definite. I simply don't care enough what you think.
I think I'm too bored to even address your pointless accusations and absurd ideas.
Yep, pretty sure if you really think after reading everything in this thread that I'm a back tracking socialist that it just isn't worth my time to try and explain anything to you.
Oh look, TCM is showing war movies.
Yep, it's definite. I simply don't care enough what you think.
That's cool. You did boldly throw it out there for the world to opine. I just had to spout my two cents, for a number of decades too many freedom minded Americans have watched in silence as the Left have spun wildly out of control. They actually believe socialism and communism has a chance of taking over our courts: it's not going to happen. We have sat silently long enough, it's time for constitutional freedoms to make a re-appearance in our pop culture. The hippies of the 1960's and 70's had the same idea and in many ways their ideology was more sustainable, yet a failed trend.
I have seen the web of decay socialism has spun in a number of failed nation states: I don't know of a single vocal socialist enjoying the freedoms in the US that would trade what they have now for the systemic decay of a socialist system. I am open to a hybrid system that's sustainable, which is in many ways what we have, yet in order for it to work we need strict adherence to Article VI within the US Constitution in addition to wise representation of tax dollars. We have to be careful to how much we tolerate, because ideology gains momentum when it has a hive minded herd to perpetuate it. We all share the same Human desires, but the hive mind does not account for the individual, and the two cannot coexist in harmony. We cannot have individual freedoms and play with the idea that the greater good must weave the fabric of the whole without creating a fascist police state. Nazi Germany, Stalin, Mao...what we have to lose is everything. Worse than our lives is the very humanity that drives our spirit, the thing that makes us human.
I'm not going to pigeon hole you, I don't know you. But you know where I stand on freedoms. Enjoy your programs.
SeriousStudent
05-26-20, 14:45
And now that everyone is finished bitching at each other, this is a great place to close the thread.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.