View Full Version : Deck Oil
It's time for my least favorite semi annual ritual. I need to strip and stain my deck.
I would like to stain it with some type of deck oil. I'm looking for a product that can be reapplied without stripping.
The closest thing I can find locally is Cabot Australian Timber Oil. If anyone has any other recommendations I would greatly appreciate it
Five_Point_Five_Six
05-23-20, 13:22
Ugh, I feel your pain. I solved my problem of having to strip and re-stain my deck every other spring by tearing out the deck and pouring a concrete patio and steps.
I would love to put down some concrete or pavers. Not in the budget this year on
The Southern California sun is relentless and we're freeway close so I get soot and dirt all year. Front and rear redwood deck get a power wash on Saturday morning, dry all day, and reoiled the next day about every other year. I've had good luck with Penofin. The power washer was a little Karcher K1700 for about $125 from Amazon. It's been great for stuff around the house.
I wash it down about every 6 months, but I get about 18~24 months out of it before I decide I'm ready to reapply the oil.
I need to do this if it would just stop raining already.
It's time for my least favorite semi annual ritual. I need to strip and stain my deck.
I would like to stain it with some type of deck oil. I'm looking for a product that can be reapplied without stripping.
The closest thing I can find locally is Cabot Australian Timber Oil. If anyone has any other recommendations I would greatly appreciate it
Well once the deck is properly stained and sealed it will not accept anymore stain. It never wears off equally so if you don’t strip it part of the deck that is worn will accept stain and the rest of it will not and the part that the new stain is put on will peel faster.
Decks are a pain in the ass to keep looking good and properly sealed.
I may give this stuff a try:
Reviews are all positive. It can be reapplied without the dreaded task of stripping.
https://woodrichbrand.com/shop/deep-penetrating-timber-oil-wood-stain-1-gallon/
Just a quick question - do any of you have 2nd story decks? If so do you do the underside each time you re-stain/oil?
Just a quick question - do any of you have 2nd story decks? If so do you do the underside each time you re-stain/oil?
You should NOT stain the underside of a deck.
That essentially creates a seal that traps moisture in and won’t allow it to breath down/out of the wood, that’s a sure fire way to accelerate the life of your joists and rot your joists (unless the tops are properly covered/wrapped with grave vycor tape.
Even if you wrapped the top with vycor tape it is recommended to NOT stain or paint the bottom.
shadowrider
05-23-20, 23:28
If it has an oil based finish on it now an oil based stain will work like your Australian Timber oil which isn't a bad choice for a big box store product. Just a good pressure washing and letting it get totally dry is all you should really need for prep. The suggestion of Penofin is a good choice and may hold up longer. I've not used it but General Finishes' Outdoor Oil I suspect would be good. I've had outstanding luck with some of their other products and their products are almost universally loved in the woodworking community and considered top tier.
Personally I think the oil stains look the best but there are none out there that will last. The more opaque it is the better durability you'll get. Oils are always going to be a 1 to 3 year maintenance requirement. Painting it will last longer but doesn't look as good IMO, I like to see the grain.
I have a small front deck that’s green treated timber, that’s now a year old and presumably dry. I’m stripping my back deck as we speak and will be needing to put a protective finish on it as well when it’s completed and dry.
What’s recommended for noob DIY finisher? What’s the (quick) difference between an oil and a stain?
And does the joist tape work as advertised?
I've been doing battle with the same deck for 20 years. I tried a variety of different stains. None of them last more than two or three years at best. They start to fade after two seasons in the Chicago area weather. The problem has always been reapplication. You can't get new stain through the old stain that remains on the deck. The new stuff will float on top and not stick to the wood.
You need to chemically strip the deck or sand it to remove the existing stain. Then apply the new stuff. This is a time-consuming pain in the ass.
The exception is deck oil. It's much like oiling a gun stock. You don't strip the old stuff when you had a new coat. I'm reluctant to use Cabot Australian timber oil. Evidently the formula has changed. Is it is much thicker now than it was in the past. It doesn't penetrate as deeply into the wood.
I'm going to try the Woodrich brand I linked in my previous post.
I have a small front deck that’s green treated timber, that’s now a year old and presumably dry. I’m stripping my back deck as we speak and will be needing to put a protective finish on it as well when it’s completed and dry.
What’s recommended for noob DIY finisher? What’s the (quick) difference between an oil and a stain?
And does the joist tape work as advertised?
Yes, putting grace vycor tape on top of the joists protects them. It is a vapor barrier that also self seals around screws so water doesn't seep into joists causing rot/damage.
As far as stripping and resealing a deck goes, some of the stuff I've had the best results is using "restore a deck" 2 part stripping/brightening and then a TWP "Total wood Preservative" Sealant. TWP 1500 is good stuff.
Cabots is good, Sikkens is good. The TWP tends to last a bit longer in my experience in the harsh Colorado environment.
Sealing a deck is a 1-3 year maintenance program. Do it well with the right product and you can do it every 3 years with ease.
Thanks for the input on my questions as well fellas.
Is a deck oil different than a stain or varnish? Or is it similar to the difference between latex and oil paint? Sorry, that part I’m not picking up on...
Thanks for the input on my questions as well fellas.
Is a deck oil different than a stain or varnish? Or is it similar to the difference between latex and oil paint? Sorry, that part I’m not picking up on...
Basically it’s the difference in what the product is derived from what they do and how they are used.
Oil borne, water borne or advanced waterbased oil alkyds. You also have solvent based and oil/resin based products.
Varnish and lacquer are used as top coats after staining.
Most stains these days are waterborne or advanced waterborne alkyds.
Very few true oil based products are left.
Both have pros and cons.
Oil will penetrate deeper in most cases, and don’t require a top coat- but wear faster on the surface, waterborne stain products will not penetrate as deep but can provide better surface protectant with a proper top coat. Advanced water based alkyds try to do both well.
Stains are mainly pigment with stuff to aid application that evaporates after being applied leaving even pigment behind, then a top coat sealer is required. Some stains are pigment and sealer in one.
It really comes down to the quality of the product, however.
“Thompson’s” anything is total crap.
PPG proprietary products are pretty lame, but they acquired some boutique companies that are very high end and good quality.
Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore products tend to be medium to high grade, Cabbots is medium high grade, penofin is medium high grade, sikkens is high grade, the TWP is high grade, etc.
Lots of poor products out there at low to medium price points, a couple of poor products at high price points and a couple of quality products at high to very high price points.
What may work well in Florida likely won’t perform so well in Colorado. So some shine in different climate regions.
Same with different types of wood. Cedar versus redwood versus pine, etc.
Proper maintenance schedule over time is key. Do it more often than it’s needed and you will maximize the lifecycle and aesthetic of your deck.
If you want a deck that’s close to maintenance free get heat treated ash or Brazilian Ipe (pronounces Epay) You’ll pay for it up front, but both require very minimal top coat oil based sealants every 5 years or so. Very hard wood to work with from a construction standpoint.
The composites are the same, lots of shit and some good stuff, but it all requires replacement and repair over time.
The best composite out there is TimberTek. I’d not even look at anything else.
Lots of great info THCDDM4, thanks for dropping it on a new deck guy. I grew up swinging a hammer with dad and can frame a house and build a deck, but the finer points of woodworking are still works in progress.
I just have a green-treated deck, nothing fancy, and would like to do something to treat it to keep it in decent shape for the next 3-5 years until we move.
Adrenaline_6
05-26-20, 09:38
What about new wood outdoor furniture and a new cedar framed gazebo? Lots of products out there. I was looking at Thompsons crap because I don't know any better...now looking at the TWP and Sikkens stuff, the options have grown. Recommended surface prep on otherwise new furniture for these products looks like a pita also.
Averageman
05-26-20, 12:10
I rebuilding a Cedar and Pressure treated lumber fence and would feel a lot better if when completed I could treat it with a product that will help it last a little longer.
Any ideas?
I rebuilding a Cedar and Pressure treated lumber fence and would feel a lot better if when completed I could treat it with a product that will help it last a little longer.
Any ideas?
THCDDM4 pretty well covered it in his posts.
What about new wood outdoor furniture and a new cedar framed gazebo? Lots of products out there. I was looking at Thompsons crap because I don't know any better...now looking at the TWP and Sikkens stuff, the options have grown. Recommended surface prep on otherwise new furniture for these products looks like a pita also.
This is where the general finishes outdoor oil shines, on outdoor furniture. It is good on decks as well, but a little pricey for not being too much ahead of the TWP and other offerings.
For furniture it is really an awesome product that can't be beat, and you don't need gallons of it (Unless you got a ton of furniture) so it doesn't break the bank too much.
It's all in the prep. Follow instructions and test it out once or twice on something other than your expensive patio furniture first so you know how to work with the product and can get the hang of it before causing yourself more work.
I highly recommend staying away from Thompsons. It performs very poorly across the board.
What about new wood outdoor furniture and a new cedar framed gazebo? Lots of products out there. I was looking at Thompsons crap because I don't know any better...now looking at the TWP and Sikkens stuff, the options have grown. Recommended surface prep on otherwise new furniture for these products looks like a pita also.
Fences require a little less maintenance (Sometimes) than decks, but it is still wise to retreat them every 3-6 years depending on wear. If you have a top/horizontal rail like a 2X6, treat that yearly.
Pressure wash and choose a good stain with a top coat to protect. If needed use a cleaner and brightener to bring some life back into it prior to staining and top coating.
Adrenaline_6
05-26-20, 19:43
This is where the general finishes outdoor oil shines, on outdoor furniture. It is good on decks as well, but a little pricey for not being too much ahead of the TWP and other offerings.
For furniture it is really an awesome product that can't be beat, and you don't need gallons of it (Unless you got a ton of furniture) so it doesn't break the bank too much.
It's all in the prep. Follow instructions and test it out once or twice on something other than your expensive patio furniture first so you know how to work with the product and can get the hang of it before causing yourself more work.
I highly recommend staying away from Thompsons. It performs very poorly across the board.
I was thinking oil as well. Little prep and just clean and reapply when it's time to re-treat. What do you recommend? I saw the Sikkens Cetol SF 733. I also saw the Penofin Red and Blue label oils. The wood furniture isn't that expensive. Right now...2 $150 rocking chairs. The gazebo hasn't arrived yet...will be here this week and I have to put it together. It is a small 8' x 8' cedar framed gazebo with a vented steel roof.
The Florida sun is the force the wood will be facing.
I was thinking oil as well. Little prep and just clean and reapply when it's time to re-treat. What do you recommend? I saw the Sikkens Cetol SF 733. I also saw the Penofin Red and Blue label oils. The wood furniture isn't that expensive. Right now...2 $150 rocking chairs. The gazebo hasn't arrived yet...will be here this week and I have to put it together. It is a small 8' x 8' cedar framed gazebo with a vented steel roof.
The Florida sun is the force the wood will be facing.
I believe the 733 is the semi-gloss. I’m stick to a satin finish. The semi gloss tends to protect well, but the sheen breaks down faster and peels pretty bad in direct sunlight. Satin needs a bit more maintenance but won’t have the sheen breakdown/peeling like semi gloss will.
The general finishes outdoor oil in satin or sikkens cetol in satin finish would be my suggestion.
I prefer to use a cloth and apply until the wood is fully saturated and won’t accept any more oil. Don’t drench it, apply slowly and evenly over and over until you get full saturation.
Adrenaline_6
05-26-20, 20:55
I believe the 733 is the semi-gloss. I’m stick to a satin finish. The semi gloss tends to protect well, but the sheen breaks down faster and peels pretty bad in direct sunlight. Satin needs a bit more maintenance but won’t have the sheen breakdown/peeling like semi gloss will.
The general finishes outdoor oil in satin or sikkens cetol in satin finish would be my suggestion.
I prefer to use a cloth and apply until the wood is fully saturated and won’t accept any more oil. Don’t drench it, apply slowly and evenly over and over until you get full saturation.
Awesome...thanks for the help and suggestions. The Cetol oil came only in that one style for brushing and rag application so that makes General Finishes the easy pick. Not too bad price wise...a gallon is a little over $20 although the shipping is probably high. I will try and find it locally first.
Edit: $20 was for a quart. $67/gallon on Amazon..free,shipping. Still can't complain.
Ok, I have a very similar issue. The siding of my house is cedar and the previous owners have been using Sikkens Cetol SRD every two years to protect it.
Is that still what I want to be using? Is there something better? Is there something a little more idiot proof? For example can I use the Woodrich Timber Oil Deep Penetrating Wood Stain mentioned on page one or is that a bad idea.
Ok, I have a very similar issue. The siding of my house is cedar and the previous owners have been using Sikkens Cetol SRD every two years to protect it.
Is that still what I want to be using? Is there something better? Is there something a little more idiot proof? For example can I use the Woodrich Timber Oil Deep Penetrating Wood Stain mentioned on page one or is that a bad idea.
Sikkens Cetol SRD is good quality stuff for cedar siding. They key is getting full saturation. Applying evenly and slowly until the wood will not accept any more product. Don't drench the wood, just apply smoothly and slowly/multiple runs. If you get an airless sprayer, go with very low pressure and multiple wet runs/applications.
I prefer to have this applied with an airless sprayer and then backrolled with a thick nap roller. Helps to push the stain into the cedar. The rougher the cedar the more important the backroll is when applying.
I'm not a huge fan of brushes, it gets the job done, but takes forever and has no added benefit except brushes are fairly cheap compared to an airless sprayer. Especially if DIY.
Most painting companies just don't stain to full saturation, unfortunately, and some people who DIY don't do it out of not knowing to do so.
As long as a high quality product has been used in the past, it's good to keep with the same stuff, it's not scientific by any means, just experience, but wood prefers the same treatment. Again as long as a high quality product is being used, it just doesn't make sense to change unless there is an issue that needs solved with another product.
In Iowa you should be getting closer to 3-5 years out of that treatment when applied properly, but doing it every 2 years is a good maintenance approach. Especially in areas that get lots of sun exposure and horizontal surfaces that have to deal with moisture build up.
I would not hesitate to use the timber oil product, but if it were my home I'd stick to the Cetol unless it wasn't working/an issue needs solving with another product.
I will qualify that I hate that PPG bought out Sikkens. PPG is a shite company and likely will change the Sikkens formulas in the future to cut cost. They will also likely offshore the production to China eventually. That's the PPG way.
It's tough to beat Cetol SRD as far as overall value goes, in an oil/stain product for cedar siding.
Ok, so I just discovered that the Sikkens is what they used on the back deck and for the siding they've been using something from The Flood Company – CWF-UV (the oil based version). I'm assuming I want to stay with that?
Or would Sikkens or Woodrich Timber Oil Deep Penetrating Wood Stain get me longer lasting / better protection? If I can get something that will hold up 3-5 years rather than 2, I want to go with that.
Ok, so I just discovered that the Sikkens is what they used on the back deck and for the siding they've been using something from The Flood Company – CWF-UV (the oil based version). I'm assuming I want to stay with that?
Or would Sikkens or Woodrich Timber Oil Deep Penetrating Wood Stain get me longer lasting / better protection? If I can get something that will hold up 3-5 years rather than 2, I want to go with that.
Flood is a PPG product as well. It was great in its heyday, before PPG bought it out and changed up the formulation every few years- and offshored production to China...
It has undergone some positive formulation changes recently, but It’s not a product I would recommend when better products are out there.
It’s one the medium/low spectrum of what’s available.
Next time you treat your siding go with the sikkens Cetol- would be my suggestion.
Timely thread as I put down new deck boards last summer. I just used regular pressure treated deck boards, nothing fancy, but now want to do something to seal them and prolong the life. Any recommendations for pressure treated? I prefer a clear finish, not looking to change the color like a stain might, just want soemthing to seal it and protect from the elements. I appreciate it!
Timely thread as I put down new deck boards last summer. I just used regular pressure treated deck boards, nothing fancy, but now want to do something to seal them and prolong the life. Any recommendations for pressure treated? I prefer a clear finish, not looking to change the color like a stain might, just want soemthing to seal it and protect from the elements. I appreciate it!
Contact the customer service line at Woodrich. They were very helpful. Answered all of my questions.
I would strongly recommend you get a product that does not have to be stripped before re application. Look at the various types of timber oils.
Flood is a PPG product as well. It was great in its heyday, before PPG bought it out and changed up the formulation every few years- and offshored production to China...
It has undergone some positive formulation changes recently, but It’s not a product I would recommend when better products are out there.
It’s one the medium/low spectrum of what’s available.
Next time you treat your siding go with the sikkens Cetol- would be my suggestion.
That is everything I need to know.
Thanks for taking the time with all the newbie questions.
There's been a lot of good information in this thread. I am no expert on this kind of thing, but here in New Mexico we have a lot of UV damage to wood due to higher altitude and dry conditions. That turquoise blue sky is because of little moisture in the atmosphere. Unprotected wood will dry out and crack.
One thing I have used is something to be found on marine decking on boats - Spar Urethane. Use whatever stain you want, then put a finishing coat or two of spar urethane on and it wears well, and seems to be resistant to heavy UV exposure.
There's been a lot of good information in this thread. I am no expert on this kind of thing, but here in New Mexico we have a lot of UV damage to wood due to higher altitude and dry conditions. That turquoise blue sky is because of little moisture in the atmosphere. Unprotected wood will dry out and crack.
One thing I have used is something to be found on marine decking on boats - Spar Urethane. Use whatever stain you want, then put a finishing coat or two of spar urethane on and it wears well, and seems to be resistant to heavy UV exposure.
Marine Spar Urethane Varnish is an excellent top coat and protectant. I use it on old late 1800's and early 1900's Victorian homes in Denver, it's perfect for the 100+ year old Oak front doors and it gives a lovely amber hue.
Spar vanish is nice, gives great protection, and looks nice. It's also labor intensive to apply properly. If left too long and allowed chip/crack/peel, it usually requires stripped and sanding to prep for reapplication and in a high wear/traffic area like a deck, that will be much more often than say a door, a door threshold, railings, etc. The other issue is that is very slippery when wet which is usually not a good thing on a deck.
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