View Full Version : Contact Tracing Partnership Between Apple and Google
Mods if this should be in an existing COVID thread, please move.
If it time to ditch the smartphone for good? I know these things already track us six ways from Sunday and I have had discussions in past with like minded friends that we are going to have to stop carrying them or flat out learn to live without them someday. This Contact Tracking partnership between Apple and Google is pretty brazen/out in the open. Phase One is voluntary. Phase two will be at the operating system level to ensure mass compliance. I know it says the user must opt in but the potential for abuse is gigantic. It is already traceable via the towers and GPS chip. The new feature will be your device pinging every in range device via Bluetooth in real time. Tracks where you are, who you were with or in proximity to (assuming they also have a device which is more likely than not) and for how long.
FAQ from Apple here: https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-FAQv1.1.pdf
a. Can I turn it off?
Yes. The choice to use this technology rests with the user, and he or she can turn it off at any
time by uninstalling the contact tracing application or turning off exposure notification in
Settings.
I am assuming it would be child's play for them to remotely activate this and trip the Bluetooth to ping should they choose to. Maybe someone who is tech savvy could chime in on that one.
I lived more of my life without one of these things than with it and I am sure I will survive without it if I have to. Wondering if that time is swiftly approaching?
Thoughts? One minute I think my tinfoil hat is getting a little too tight and the next minute I wonder if I should have thrown this thing in the trash years ago.
It will likely be added to the next privacy update that no one reads.
Then everyones opted in.
Ive already quit taking my phone everywhere.
will basic burners be put out of existence and smart be the only option ? that is the thing ?
for me a ipad at home is my most used tool these days so it can trace me at home ! knowing who is calling is handy of course but yeah volunteer now and as said in the next update or so ?
I am at the point buy a pre paid cheap burner for daily use when we go out and use that
smartphones are handy but really I do not have FB on it anymore etc... and so much spy crap is going on its insane ! glad to see the AZ AG going after google I wish every state would do this
just remember you are the product these days !
could I have my smart phone and nothing on it use it for the camera and few other things and be happy ? then WHY I would say waste of money but I think so many are blind and sign up and do not go into settings and turn stuff off etc.....
some kinda good stop all outbound traffic hack apps will become more popular
we are going to be in strange times
Guys. This is a framework that is in the system (at least as of now) and requires an App to actually use it. You have to download the app. Various states/governments are responsible for developing their own apps that use the framework. Don't want to participate, don't download the app.
Can they remotely trigger this? Right now, without an app, there is nothing to trigger.
If you are worried about this, you should have ditched your phone long ago (and your computer and any tech) as there could theoretically already be tons of backdoors and triggers to track you etc.
grizzlyblake
05-28-20, 18:56
It’s already happening. If you have a google phone it’s doing it by default. If you have Facebook it’s doing it by default in the app.
Your phone tracks regular movements to certain retailers, restaurants, certain geographic areas, etc. The information is used for advertising and simply grooms advertising that is displayed in apps, browser banners, etc.
My wife and I tested out a google phone she used to have. We had an in person conversation about baby diapers for a while, while her phone was locked and idle on a table in the room, then her Facebook ads were all for diapers.
Anyone who thinks this is some new cutting edge thing is not paying attention.
If you have a google phone it knows everything. Go back door download your data log. Every voice to text recording you’ve ever done is on their servers, every map route you’ve ever punched in, etc.
Life's a Hillary
05-28-20, 19:29
It’s a shame that we can’t trust the government or these tech companies not to abuse this power because having contact tracing to inform people they might have been exposed to someone who tested positive for COVID would be extremely useful.
Of course, if you don’t think the government can’t already trace your every step then you haven’t been paying attention very well.
If we are going to do contact tracing, the Apple/Google way is the way to do it. It all resides on phoen only until someone reports themselves as positive. Then a hash of some sort is uploaded and all those who have had contact with that hash are notified. No identifiable data is sent to any server as I understand it.
May countries have tried to roll their own with centralized servers... Those aren't going anywhere.
Screw contact tracing. Man, f*** these companies and their desires to track and manipulate people in every way possible. F*** the .gov wanting to do the same.
Privacy is fleeting, it's pretty sad.
Diamondback
05-29-20, 00:35
I've turned off automatic updates on all my Android devices because of this.
I give you iOS 13.5 dude it’s built in now came out couple days ago
Has to be turned on but it’s baked into the os now
sad as apple used to be better then this
Guys. This is a framework that is in the system (at least as of now) and requires an App to actually use it. You have to download the app. Various states/governments are responsible for developing their own apps that use the framework. Don't want to participate, don't download the app.
Can they remotely trigger this? Right now, without an app, there is nothing to trigger.
If you are worried about this, you should have ditched your phone long ago (and your computer and any tech) as there could theoretically already be tons of backdoors and triggers to track you etc.
They are training folks that are going to be calling folks asking questions etc....
So you test positive and you get a call and asked questions (pressured) to share contact list etc....
that is how they will go about it then without your consent if you are a friend of that person all those contacts get put into the database and contacted eventually also and the did you know someone had your info that has it etc...
We know someone that is doing it as she is desperate for work and was told could pay up to to 60k starts lower of course
Looked into it pretty easy to find the .gov job offers for this already from all states
teufelhund1918
05-29-20, 05:15
I'm just a plain old idiot when it comes to technology. Never been interested in learning about it or having those devices. I go to the local library or here at work to use a computer for what I need. I finally caved and bought one of those little $20 flip phones at Walfart. I don't carry it much. I really don't have a use for it other than family issues. But I don't think it is more than just the phones you have to be concerned about. What about the Onstar in your vehicles and other devices? You can check your refrigerator with your phone these days...???? I wonder how all this stuff is connected because it looks like to me that they all are. Do a search for some thing on a computer. Suddenly those things start popping up in ads on all your devices. They already know all the moves you made during your day.
Guys. This is a framework that is in the system (at least as of now) and requires an App to actually use it. You have to download the app. Various states/governments are responsible for developing their own apps that use the framework. Don't want to participate, don't download the app.
Can they remotely trigger this? Right now, without an app, there is nothing to trigger.
If you are worried about this, you should have ditched your phone long ago (and your computer and any tech) as there could theoretically already be tons of backdoors and triggers to track you etc.
Phase II will not be optional. It will part of the OS:
In the second phase, available in the coming months, this capability will be introduced at the
operating system level to help ensure broad adoption, which is vital to the success of contact
tracing.
Phase II will not be optional. It will part of the OS:
It is still "optional" in that you will have to report yourself positive before anything gets uploaded and then it is still anonymously hashed. And I think that you will still need an app. The actual blue tooth pinging will happen automagically but, and I am not sure about this, you will still need an app to run to trigger the use of that data. Whether the app is built in or you use your country's app IDK. But it won't be reporting anything to anyone without you reporting yourself to the app as positive.
I give you iOS 13.5 dude it’s built in now came out couple days ago
Has to be turned on but it’s baked into the os now
sad as apple used to be better then this
See my other comments above. The pinging may be baked in but nothing is reported until you report yourself positive. It still stays on-device until that point.
See my other comments above. The pinging may be baked in but nothing is reported until you report yourself positive. It still stays on-device until that point.
Yeah but they can make it mandatory very easy to be in or contacts won’t work etc....
So the you need to download is off the table etc....
Now it’s do we need to make this a on feature you opt out ?
Then next time you have to have it on ?
To me the baking into os is a bit to far for comfort
The reporting thing won’t be you reporting (some will of course) but is going to be people calling just google .gov contact tracing jobs
Also the testing at hospitals etc... will then put you on a list by default I was told (just got out of hospital yesterday for surgery had my test before surgery was allowed and asked some questions oh negative for covid of course)
See my other comments above. The pinging may be baked in but nothing is reported until you report yourself positive. It still stays on-device until that point.
You're wrong. It's not going to work the way you are thinking. State of CA is putting 10,000 people into this effort. 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
I can't go into details here other than to let you know in no uncertain terms that you are wrong. It's not going to be voluntary, self reporting or otherwise. It's morphing quite quickly into a state run Orwellian dream. Or nightmare depending upon your position. I'm already hearing the whispers of "hey, we can use this for other things too!"
You're wrong. It's not going to work the way you are thinking. State of CA is putting 10,000 people into this effort. 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
I can't go into details here other than to let you know in no uncertain terms that you are wrong. It's not going to be voluntary, self reporting or otherwise. It's morphing quite quickly into a state run Orwellian dream. Or nightmare depending upon your position. I'm already hearing the whispers of "hey, we can use this for other things too!"
Well that’s not helping anyone now is it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only thing being baked in AFAIK is the automatic pinging. Right now it needs to be turned on by a framework added after the fact. With it built in the apps don't need to include that framework. You still need to say you are actually sick and at that point is when it uploads the hashed values. Those values do not identify you. They merely allow them to tell others who have seen your beacon to be told they came into contact with someone.
This has nothing to do with your contacts (Apple and Google already have access to your contacts). The Covid tracking, whether "baked in" or as a framework that an app needs to be turned on, does not upload anything until you input that you are actually positive. Then your hashed ID, not linked to any real ID, is uploaded so that the people who have been near you know they were near someone. No one knows actually who that was when they get the report.
Let's take the tinfoil hats off here.
Yeah but they can make it mandatory very easy to be in or contacts won’t work etc....
So the you need to download is off the table etc....
Now it’s do we need to make this a on feature you opt out ?
Then next time you have to have it on ?
To me the baking into os is a bit to far for comfort
The reporting thing won’t be you reporting (some will of course) but is going to be people calling just google .gov contact tracing jobs
Also the testing at hospitals etc... will then put you on a list by default I was told (just got out of hospital yesterday for surgery had my test before surgery was allowed and asked some questions oh negative for covid of course)
You're wrong. It's not going to work the way you are thinking. State of CA is putting 10,000 people into this effort. 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
I can't go into details here other than to let you know in no uncertain terms that you are wrong. It's not going to be voluntary, self reporting or otherwise. It's morphing quite quickly into a state run Orwellian dream. Or nightmare depending upon your position. I'm already hearing the whispers of "hey, we can use this for other things too!"
No I am not wrong. Not with the Apple/Google effort. California may be trying some other method of tracking but the Apple/Google effort works as I've described.
I shot my Samsung with a 22-250 last time we were out prairie dogging.
I figured it would explode in a million pieces, nope !
Just blew a hole through it, still jammed in the split rail fence top.
I agree that this isn't going to be voluntary. It'll all be baked in to our electronic leashes and will be enabled and used at the discretion of the government and the tech companies. You'll "opt in" by continuing to use the device.
There won't be any self-reporting, either. You will be reported automatically by Big Data based on testing results.
And yeah, it's gonna get used for lots of other things too...
Let's take the tinfoil hats off here.
Not only am I keeping the hat, I'm making a matching tinfoil phone case... ;-)
Well a person at the hospital and one who is already training contacts folks have said other things
Could they be lying ? Yeah
Could all the media be covering up the truth ! Yeah %100
Does anyone trust google/apple especially if working with the aclu ! Reckon only some radical lefties
You won’t know but the gov will know is the problem and wait till we see if all the interview phone calls start happening and we come back then :)
No I am not wrong. Not with the Apple/Google effort. California may be trying some other method of tracking but the Apple/Google effort works as I've described.
Yeah, you are. You don't know what you don't know. You know what you've read or been led to believe. What's going on otherwise isn't public yet.
Go ahead and believe what you like, but don't go blowing sunshine up other's backside with bad info. CA is working directly with A & G directly with establishing protocols for this. How do I know you ask? I was in on the conference call just a few days ago.
Yeah, you are. You don't know what you don't know. You know what you've read or been led to believe. What's going on otherwise isn't public yet.
Go ahead and believe what you like, but don't go blowing sunshine up other's backside with bad info. CA is working directly with A & G directly with establishing protocols for this. How do I know you ask? I was in on the conference call just a few days ago.
No, I am not wrong. Neither Apple nor Google would risk their business to add in obtrusive tracking as you are describing. Apple already stands up to the govt and says NO to things "bigger" than this. They would not risk their business for any sort of thing you describe.
Is California planning on doing tracking? Could be. But it won't be with the Apple/Google initiative. It is not technically possible. That is not how their system works. Again, their system does not work the way you described.
I would suggest to you "don't go blowing sunshine up other's backside with bad info".
No, I am not wrong. Neither Apple nor Google would risk their business to add in obtrusive tracking as you are describing. Apple already stands up to the govt and says NO to things "bigger" than this. They would not risk their business for any sort of thing you describe.
Is California planning on doing tracking? Could be. But it won't be with the Apple/Google initiative. It is not technically possible. That is not how their system works. Again, their system does not work the way you described.
I would suggest to you "don't go blowing sunshine up other's backside with bad info".
Yeah? You mean like the way they both stand up to the Chinese Communist Party to do exactly this? Laughable.
I will believe exactly what I heard their executives said that they can and are willing to do.
I am out
Agree on apple
google they would and do bad stuff already
But the fact apple put the hook as you say in OS X was why I said sad day for apple but maybe they did it to make sure nobody could get personal info unlike google
And time will tell what way they go ? At this point I hope not think not but who knows anymore they are not what they were and we just don’t know
The contact tracing phone stuff will be curious when it starts how it’s going to go
No, I am not wrong. Neither Apple nor Google would risk their business to add in obtrusive tracking as you are describing. Apple already stands up to the govt and says NO to things "bigger" than this. They would not risk their business for any sort of thing you describe.
Is California planning on doing tracking? Could be. But it won't be with the Apple/Google initiative. It is not technically possible. That is not how their system works. Again, their system does not work the way you described.
I would suggest to you "don't go blowing sunshine up other's backside with bad info".
The contact tracing being voluntary may be true. There is so much bad information out there it is hard to know. The fact that the OS of my phone, no matter what I own is going to have Bluetooth pinging that I can't control baked into the OS from now on is what I have a real problem with. It is consistent across all platforms and Apple and Google worked with .gov to make sure it was easily workable for them. Given everything we have learned in the last 15-20 years regarding .gov and your privacy, I'm sure they won't be tempted to abuse it.
You're wrong. It's not going to work the way you are thinking. State of CA is putting 10,000 people into this effort. 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
I can't go into details here other than to let you know in no uncertain terms that you are wrong. It's not going to be voluntary, self reporting or otherwise. It's morphing quite quickly into a state run Orwellian dream. Or nightmare depending upon your position. I'm already hearing the whispers of "hey, we can use this for other things too!"What's wrong with details here? Black helicopters?
What's wrong with details here? Black helicopters?
Non-disclosure is more likely. I am more and more attracted to the idea of a burn phone and non-Gmail email use. I don't do any social media platforms and have restricted tracking as much as possible on my current Android phone.
Andy
Non-disclosure is more likely. I am more and more attracted to the idea of a burn phone and non-Gmail email use. I don't do any social media platforms and have restricted tracking as much as possible on my current Android phone.
AndyI've never been into social media platforms except this here. And honestly at this point even this is becoming old. Otherwise, my phone is mostly used as a phone and an occasional GPS. I've turned off everything I possibly could
1_click_off
05-30-20, 10:25
So is this something they are doing out of the goodness of their heart? Don’t think this funding has gone anywhere I posted awhile back.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?223211-HR-6666
We'll see what happens. "Baked un" could just mean the frameworks/libraries are pre-installed and each app does not have to include them on its own. You still need an app and need to register with it (based on my job in the industry this is what I am guessing).
It could also mean the phone auto-pings but you need an app to do anything with it. (Less likely)
It could be all out Orwell.
We'll have to see what happens.
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