View Full Version : SCOTUS ABORTS 1ST AMENDMENT.
Straight Shooter
05-30-20, 07:58
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/29/chief-justice-john-roberts-sides-with-liberal-justices-as-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-restrictions-on-religious-services/
Well, here you go. Our Constitution DIED today. Just like the day they ruled "gay marriage" as legal..we've gone even further down the tubes with this ruling-stabbed in the back by a supposed "conservative". There is now NO DOUBT our 2A rights are in BIG trouble. I never thought they could or would touch religious liberty. But hell, the right to assemble, be secure in ones home, and every thing else "protected" has been shit upon..why not freedom of religion. I have said for 25 years or more, we would lose all our rights in the name of "safety" and/or "for the children".
Damn- I was right.
It saddens me but it is not surprising.
The_War_Wagon
05-30-20, 08:16
Has ANYBODY seen Roberts wife and children, since BEFORE the $#!+bamaKare decision?! I'm pretty sure Soros is still holding them hostage, for decisions such as these. :mad:
And good LUCK on ENFORCING this. The Lutherans at least, have been arming for a while... :cool:
http://www.armedlutheran.us/wp-content/uploads/RGC_Widget.jpg
Looters and rioters can gather in the thousands to steal and destroy without fear of arrest. But if a hundred people attend church they will be fined and/or arrested and disbursed. We are definitely in the end times of this great republic.
BoringGuy45
05-30-20, 08:19
Roberts is an absolute coward. This country is coming down FAST!
Right now, though, cops aren't in a position to enforce much of anything.
Disappointing, but not surprising. I've officially given up on a solution being found within the system.
^^
I’ve maintained for some time that we will never change the system by working within the system
It is far too corrupt and broken.
That leaves; ride it out to the bitter end, or “replace it”.
It appears the majority are still to comfortable to take the measures necessary to accomplish the latter.
^^
I’ve maintained for some time that we will never change the system by working within the system
It is far too corrupt and broken.
That leaves; ride it out to the bitter end, or “replace it”.
It appears the majority are still to comfortable to take the measures necessary to accomplish the latter.
^^^THIS
Looters and rioters can gather in the thousands to steal and destroy without fear of arrest. But if a hundred people attend church they will be fined and/or arrested and disbursed. We are definitely in the end times of this great republic.
More like 100 people entering Home Depot just to shop = OK......100 people entering a Church = BAD.
I'm not a real religious person in a social sense, but I am a person of faith. Most of the Christians I know will defy such tyranny, and some have already been doing it. I will happily support them. At some point people will attend their houses of worship armed to the teeth in defiance.
I agree with OH58, getting to be time for church goers to riot although massive civil disobedience would work just as well. I also am a believer but not big on organized religion or going to church but this makes me want to go.
Maybe God is testing His church, refining it. IMO the church has been in a second dark ages, especially concerning theology and practice, for a long long time. God's elect were warned not to trust princes or to receive their validation from governments. The latest persecution of Jesus Christ has been going on in the rest of the world for 10-20 years, it has now come to the U.S.
Straight Shooter
05-30-20, 10:58
Maybe God is testing His church, refining it. IMO the church has been in a second dark ages, especially concerning theology and practice, for a long long time. God's elect were warned not to trust princes or to receive their validation from governments. The latest persecution of Jesus Christ has been going on in the rest of the world for 10-20 years, it has now come to the U.S.
SO true. Theyve been chopping off heads & shooting up church buses, raping Christian women, going into homes and dragging people out, and other atrocities all over the world for a long time now.
Its just hitting here, the beginning. It WILL get worse or the Bible is a lie. I/we have already been armed for a few years now because of church shootings, but only lightly. And fortunately Im in the South and at least as of yet we dont the commie type edicts of Kali or IL or NY.
But the day I look out and see cops taking tag numbers, or they start beating on the church doors, as JUST happened last week in Chicago, well Im gonna do just as old Nehemiah said do in NEH4:14..see my signature below.
SOMEWHERE..SOMEONE MUST TAKE A STAND. We simply MUST make local, state & Federal government fear THE PEOPLE, instead of the other way around.
Maybe..MAYBE...that will be one "good" thing to come out of the ongoing riots. What if God fearing, law abiding gun owners acted like this,all the while fully armed?
Yall think THAT wouldnt wake up some folks? Today..America is different Constitutionally speaking, than yesterday...FOREVER.
SCOTUS has empowered all the little fascists/demonrats with all the legal power they need now.
As I said in a recent thread...awhile back we had a "Civil War" thread, asking if people thought we were close to having one. Soooo many laughed and scoffed at the idea of it. Are you laughing & scoffing now, I wonder?
BoringGuy45
05-30-20, 11:32
SO true. Theyve been chopping off heads & shooting up church buses, raping Christian women, going into homes and dragging people out, and other atrocities all over the world for a long time now.
Its just hitting here, the beginning. It WILL get worse or the Bible is a lie. I/we have already been armed for a few years now because of church shootings, but only lightly. And fortunately Im in the South and at least as of yet we dont the commie type edicts of Kali or IL or NY.
But the day I look out and see cops taking tag numbers, or they start beating on the church doors, as JUST happened last week in Chicago, well Im gonna do just as old Nehemiah said do in NEH4:14..see my signature below.
SOMEWHERE..SOMEONE MUST TAKE A STAND. We simply MUST make local, state & Federal government fear THE PEOPLE, instead of the other way around.
Maybe..MAYBE...that will be one "good" thing to come out of the ongoing riots. What if God fearing, law abiding gun owners acted like this,all the while fully armed?
Yall think THAT wouldnt wake up some folks? Today..America is different Constitutionally speaking, than yesterday...FOREVER.
SCOTUS has empowered all the little fascists/demonrats with all the legal power they need now.
As I said in a recent thread...awhile back we had a "Civil War" thread, asking if people thought we were close to having one. Soooo many laughed and scoffed at the idea of it. Are you laughing & scoffing now, I wonder?
While I dread what is to come, I also take comfort in it. There are obviously a lot of different interpretations of the end times, and question of whether or not the current church will even be around to see it (for those who believe in the pretribulation rapture). But it's pretty universally agreed that things are going to get worse than the world has ever seen before things get better.
More like 100 people entering Home Depot just to shop = OK......100 people entering a Church = BAD.
I'm not a real religious person in a social sense, but I am a person of faith. Most of the Christians I know will defy such tyranny, and some have already been doing it. I will happily support them. At some point people will attend their houses of worship armed to the teeth in defiance.
The more LE that enforces this crap or are even just present during such violations, regardless of local, state, or federal, the more selective I am in being a supporter of LE.
LMT Shooter
05-30-20, 12:03
The more LE that enforces this crap or are even just present during such violations, regardless of local, state, or federal, the more selective I am in being a supporter of LE.
I agree with you. Police officers are sometimes referred to as "sworn" officer. Those people to whom this applies need to think long and hard about what the oath they swore means. Many, maybe or maybe not a majority of them, already do, but not all. What is the consensus on Oath Keepers? Are they a good group to join?
And now we have a direct conflict between man's law and God's law. Maybe a rethink of Romans 13 is in order. I know what the reformers of old thought about it, and it's pretty different than what a typical evangelical thinks it means. How many law givers are there anyway?
Persecution has always caused the Church to grow. Always. As Christians we have had it good for a long time in this country. I saw a video once of Christians who were driven out of their home town by ISIS. The reporter was filming several of the families who escaped and all the people kept saying was “Jesus forgive them.” It made me think how good we have it here and how my faith has never been tested as such. But the time may be coming.
It's really clear to me, at least, what the way forward is: PEACEFUL civil disobedience. In ordinary times Christians are exhorted to "submit to the governing authorities" (Rom 13). As we should. But in extraordinary times--like if the authorities are ordering genocide, or telling Christians they can't worship, have Bibles, or talk about God in public--then "We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29).
We should all ignore all such orders blocking worship, and each congregation should check the CDC guidelines for churches and make a plan to meet SAFELY for worship, using a combination of video streaming services for those at risk, and careful distancing, etc., for those who attend.
The most disappointing thing to me is that the vast majority of Christian leaders in our country are just meekly submitting to all this, with barely any noticeable push-back.
The only response to what scotus says is “neat”.
Im getting to the point I really dont care What the “law” says. I know my God-given human rights.
If someone wants to violate those, I’ll deal with it as I deem appropriate.
Once the people in government refuse to acknowledge human rights, they are forcing people to few remaining options.
All the justices know what your rights are, they know what the 1st amendment says and means, they just “rule” otherwise.
Just so I can check the "equality" box off on my thoughts about this: this will apply to mosques also, right?
Right???
Just so I can check the "equality" box off on my thoughts about this: this will apply to mosques also, right?
Right???
Probably not. In contemporary America, Christians are not an oppressed minority - Islam is. Not my thinking, but I don't make the rules. Social Justice is a weird activity; winners and losers constantly being determined in a process that isn't fair. Life isn't fair.
For the most part, I continue everything I have ever done, despite how laws and social acceptance changes. That makes me a cultural dinosaur.
The_War_Wagon
05-30-20, 14:00
Yes, mohammedans are free to be mohammedans.
https://i.ibb.co/m4WYm86/Ramadan-Bombathon-2020.jpg
John 15:20Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
The Christian community in this country has gotten soft. We treat God as if He were a genie in a bottle instead of the holy, all powerful, and all knowing Creator of the universe. I posted the following video once before and was derided for it. I'm posting it again because I believe it accurately describes our country's standing with our Lord. Why should He bless this nation when we have murdered just as many or more innocent lives as Nazi Germany? We are a country that not only tolerates sin, but celebrates it everywhere.
https://youtu.be/Cz8AA_Oa0EU
Just so I can check the "equality" box off on my thoughts about this: this will apply to mosques also, right?
Right???
Well if you think the U.S. Constitution is the ultimate law in the land, the free exercise clause would apply to them also. I don't think the U.S. Constitution is the ultimate law...I subscribe to a higher law and previous covenants.
John 15:20Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
The Christian community in this country has gotten soft. We treat God as if He were a genie in a bottle instead of the holy, all powerful, and all knowing Creator of the universe. I posted the following video once before and was derided for it. I'm posting it again because I believe it accurately describes our country's standing with our Lord. Why should He bless this nation when we have murdered just as many or more innocent lives as Nazi Germany? We are a country that not only tolerates sin, but celebrates it everywhere.
https://youtu.be/Cz8AA_Oa0EU
The softness can be attributed to many things most of it God's people rejecting their history and listening to schismatics and heirlings that absolutely abound in God's church. As good as MacArthur is on soteriology, he's got HUGE problems related to a multitude of doctrines concerning an almost wholesale rejection of the Reformations, 1st and 2nd. And now Christ's church is rent into a thousand pieces. I wonder what the church's voice would sound like if "pastors" weren't running their little popedoms and we were actually a 100 million united in the actual truth, one voice church....someday maybe.
Probably not. In contemporary America, Christians are not an oppressed minority - Islam is. Not my thinking, but I don't make the rules. Social Justice is a weird activity; winners and losers constantly being determined in a process that isn't fair. Life isn't fair.
For the most part, I continue everything I have ever done, despite how laws and social acceptance changes. That makes me a cultural dinosaur.
Is this tongue in cheek? Muslims oppressed in this country?
The softness can be attributed to many things most of it God's people rejecting their history and listening to schismatics and heirlings that absolutely abound in God's church. As good as MacArthur is on soteriology, he's got HUGE problems related to a multitude of doctrines concerning an almost wholesale rejection of the Reformations, 1st and 2nd. And now Christ's church is rent into a thousand pieces. I wonder what the church's voice would sound like if "pastors" weren't running their little popedoms and we were actually a 100 million united in the actual truth, one voice church....someday maybe.
I don't agree with MacArthur on several beliefs that he holds - Calvinism being one of them - but I do agree with him that God has abandoned our nation. Scripture speaks several times of God abandoning the nation of Israel - His chosen people - because of their shared sin, who are we to think that we are any different? Our national moral bankruptcy and indifference has gotten so bad that I can no longer sing "God Bless America" in good conscience.
I don't agree with MacArthur on several beliefs that he holds - Calvinism being one of them - but I do agree with him that God has abandoned our nation. Scripture speaks several times of God abandoning the nation of Israel - His chosen people - because of their shared sin, who are we to think that we are any different? Our national moral bankruptcy and indifference has gotten so bad that I can no longer sing "God Bless America" in good conscience.
That's the actual set of doctrines I do agree with him. Pretty much every pastor during the reformation was a "Calvinist", including Luther. They were all Ausgustinians. I think God abandoned the U.S. along with England, Ireland and Scotland long before the Constitution came into existence. You speak of national immorality, at the root of every sin, national or personal, is the violation of the first commandment. The free exercise clause is a gross violation of God's commandments. I said evangelicals have rejected out of neglect and ignorance the history of the church. Someday maybe they will go back and see what happen in their political and ecclesiological forefather's history long before the Americas were colonized. Do Christians even think that Caesar owes God absolute obedience in "every" place of his life...doesn't seem so.
Free-willism doesn't just destroy the soverneity of God, it destroys everything.
That's the actual set of doctrines I do agree with him. Pretty much every pastor during the reformation was a "Calvinist", including Luther. They were all Ausgustinians. I think God abandoned the U.S. along with England, Ireland and Scotland long before the Constitution came into existence. You speak of national immorality, at the root of every sin, national or personal, is the violation of the first commandment. The free exercise clause is a gross violation of God's commandments. I said evangelicals have rejected out of neglect and ignorance the history of the church. Someday maybe they will go back and see what happen in their political and ecclesiological forefather's history long before the Americas were colonized. Do Christians even think that Caesar owes God absolute obedience in "every" place of his life...doesn't seem so.
Free-willism doesn't just destroy the soverneity of God, it destroys everything.
I respectfully disagree with you. Free will doesn't destroy the sovereignty of God, it declares it! Who is the real chess master, the one who plays both sides of the board against himself or the one who plays against several other players on several boards at the same time and anticipates and counters their every move?
Love cannot exist where there isn't free will.
I respectfully disagree with you. Free will doesn't destroy the sovereignty of God, it declares it! Who is the real chess master, the one who plays both sides of the board against himself or the one who plays against several other players on several boards at the same time and anticipates and counters their every move?
Love cannot exist where there isn't free will.
Is God sovereign over your will or is it free from God? And I respectfully disagree your analogy that God is a chess master. There's no one even remotely good enough to play chess with him...He's just working all things after the counsel of His own will. Like Luther said, the devil is God's devil.
Your premise about love bears some scrutiny. When you go to heaven, will you ever be able to sin again, will you ever be able to choose to sin again? If so, will your love be then perfected? Jesus could not even choose to sin, but yet was the perfect embodiment of love. Free will and love have nothing to do with each other. The scriptures never define "freedom or liberty" as the ability to choose to sin, but always as the ability to think, speak, and do righteously. Libertarian free will says that freedom is the ability to choose good or evil. What's your best scripture that teaches free will and we'll look at it.
Not saying it's ok but it is CA. Most of your rights don't apply in CA.
Is this tongue in cheek? Muslims oppressed in this country?
Notice the disclaimer: "Not my thinking".
If any religion is considered "oppressed", the media will focus on Muslims. You'll get plenty of sympathy from the mainstream media on the Weegers (Uyghurs) in China, but not a word about Christians murdered worldwide by Islamic Extremists.
Notice the disclaimer: "Not my thinking".
If any religion is considered "oppressed", the media will focus on Muslims. You'll get plenty of sympathy from the mainstream media on the Weegers (Uyghurs) in China, but not a word about Christians murdered worldwide by Islamic Extremists.
Yes, yes Islam is the darling religion of the left. Of course none of the MSM would have step foot in ISIS controlled territory (or did they).
Not saying it's ok but it is CA. Most of your rights don't apply in CA.
Trying to keep things in perspective. It's not like we're NK or PRC...yet. Things were sort of tolerable until the lock down, then they grabbed for the big brass ring. And now SCOTUS, bless their hearts, covered their backs.
ramairthree
05-30-20, 18:30
Roberts is an absolute coward. This country is coming down FAST!
Right now, though, cops aren't in a position to enforce much of anything.
If you are in a church during a church service they will find the time and personnel to come roll your congregation up.
If your form of worship is running around with a new TV and pair of sneakers while setting a fire to a store they will stand by and watch.
If you are in a church during a church service they will find the time and personnel to come roll your congregation up.
If your form of worship is running around with a new TV and pair of sneakers while setting a fire to a store they will stand by and watch.
Whacky world isn't it?
Is God sovereign over your will or is it free from God? And I respectfully disagree your analogy that God is a chess master. There's no one even remotely good enough to play chess with him...He's just working all things after the counsel of His own will. Like Luther said, the devil is God's devil.
Your premise about love bears some scrutiny. When you go to heaven, will you ever be able to sin again, will you ever be able to choose to sin again? If so, will your love be then perfected? Jesus could not even choose to sin, but yet was the perfect embodiment of love. Free will and love have nothing to do with each other. The scriptures never define "freedom or liberty" as the ability to choose to sin, but always as the ability to think, speak, and do righteously. Libertarian free will says that freedom is the ability to choose good or evil. What's your best scripture that teaches free will and we'll look at it.
I will leave the Calvinism vs Traditionalism debate to better men than either you or I. We both appear pretty entrenched in our different views, so debating the issue would be unfruitful. Therefore, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you at this time.
I will leave the Calvinism vs Traditionalism debate to better men than either you or I. We both appear pretty entrenched in our different views, so debating the issue would be unfruitful. Therefore, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you at this time.
As you wish.
But keep in mind men and women had to die to believe and proclaim the doctrines of grace. And this and other differences are why the church is rent into pieces and oh so weak. Schism is never a good thing and it's, IMO, one of the reasons the more strident unbelievers couldn't care less what we want or proclaim. To SCOTUS, we're just a bunch of sectarian yahoos that can't agree on much of anything. Somebody is in sin that's for sure.
Trying to keep things in perspective. It's not like we're NK or PRC...yet. Things were sort of tolerable until the lock down, then they grabbed for the big brass ring. And now SCOTUS, bless their hearts, covered their backs.
Same thing happened after 9-11 with the Patriot Act and a few other things. Still this isn't near as bad as the SCOTUS ruling on Eminent Domain for private use, that now applies to every state in the union and probably is the most blatant violation of the Constitution given the specific wording.
But this is nothing new. Racists shot MLK and a radical Muslim shot Bobby Kennedy for his policies related to Israel and Johnson gave us the Gun Control Act of 1968. Did absolutely nothing to stop racially motivated murder or murder by muslim radicals but it's still with us.
Factor in that the CA law is mostly born from Covid safety issues and nobody should be surprised that wagon loads of stupid came along with it and stupid always brings further restrictions on freedom because people can't manage freedom AND responsibility very well.
Lol California
Why do you say this?
Coal Dragger
05-30-20, 23:49
If you are in a church during a church service they will find the time and personnel to come roll your congregation up.
If your form of worship is running around with a new TV and pair of sneakers while setting a fire to a store they will stand by and watch.
This is usually a good sign that it’s time to start killing them for being tyrants.
Just for fun somebody should start a candlelight vigil for AIDS victims and LGBT awareness at a local church and see what happens.
And now we have a direct conflict between man's law and God's law.
Do we though? I did not know that there was anything in the Bible requiring Christians to gather in specific locations. Can you point me to the chapter or verse?
I’m not trying to be inflammatory, just seeking to better understand religion. Christianity seems to be more lax than most religions on the how and where one must worship.
Phillygunguy
05-31-20, 05:43
Roberts is just another liberal left wing kook
I hope RBG dies and is replaced by a real right wing pro 2A conservative before they decide on any future 2A decisions otherwise we're screwed
Phillygunguy
05-31-20, 05:47
SO true. Theyve been chopping off heads & shooting up church buses, raping Christian women, going into homes and dragging people out, and other atrocities all over the world for a long time now.
Its just hitting here, the beginning. It WILL get worse or the Bible is a lie. I/we have already been armed for a few years now because of church shootings, but only lightly. And fortunately Im in the South and at least as of yet we dont the commie type edicts of Kali or IL or NY.
But the day I look out and see cops taking tag numbers, or they start beating on the church doors, as JUST happened last week in Chicago, well Im gonna do just as old Nehemiah said do in NEH4:14..see my signature below.
SOMEWHERE..SOMEONE MUST TAKE A STAND. We simply MUST make local, state & Federal government fear THE PEOPLE, instead of the other way around.
Maybe..MAYBE...that will be one "good" thing to come out of the ongoing riots. What if God fearing, law abiding gun owners acted like this,all the while fully armed?
Yall think THAT wouldnt wake up some folks? Today..America is different Constitutionally speaking, than yesterday...FOREVER.
SCOTUS has empowered all the little fascists/demonrats with all the legal power they need now.
As I said in a recent thread...awhile back we had a "Civil War" thread, asking if people thought we were close to having one. Soooo many laughed and scoffed at the idea of it. Are you laughing & scoffing now, I wonder?
We are having a civil war now. It's government run by radical leftist, those who voted for them, the media including social media.vs the rest of us who believe in the Constitution and we're outnumbered and loosing.
Straight Shooter
05-31-20, 06:29
We are having a civil war now. It's government run by radical leftist, those who voted for them, the media including social media.vs the rest of us who believe in the Constitution and we're outnumbered and loosing.
Agree 100%.
BUT....we aint went full 1776 yet, either. Not even a little.
The_War_Wagon
05-31-20, 06:40
That's the actual set of doctrines I do agree with him. Pretty much every pastor during the reformation was a "Calvinist", including Luther.
:sarcastic::lol::haha:
Drop me a line sometime. I will quickly dissuade you of that mistaken notion. ;)
Phillygunguy
05-31-20, 08:43
Agree 100%.
BUT....we aint went full 1776 yet, either. Not even a little.
But we should be 1860
morbidbattlecry
05-31-20, 09:08
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/29/chief-justice-john-roberts-sides-with-liberal-justices-as-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-restrictions-on-religious-services/
Well, here you go. Our Constitution DIED today. Just like the day they ruled "gay marriage" as legal..we've gone even further down the tubes with this ruling-stabbed in the back by a supposed "conservative". There is now NO DOUBT our 2A rights are in BIG trouble. I never thought they could or would touch religious liberty. But hell, the right to assemble, be secure in ones home, and every thing else "protected" has been shit upon..why not freedom of religion. I have said for 25 years or more, we would lose all our rights in the name of "safety" and/or "for the children".
Damn- I was right.
Our constitution died when the Patriot Act passed.
:sarcastic::lol::haha:
Drop me a line sometime. I will quickly dissuade you of that mistaken notion. ;)
No need...I've read "Bondage of the Will", it's about as Calvinistic as it gets. Generally speaking modern people tend to use "Calvinism" to describe the doctrines of grace in a generic way. In the days of Luther and Calvin themselves, they didn't really use these terms. Even though Calvin and Luther were maybe a generation apart, their doctrine on the inability of men to "choose" to be saved were quite similar.
Do we though? I did not know that there was anything in the Bible requiring Christians to gather in specific locations. Can you point me to the chapter or verse?
I’m not trying to be inflammatory, just seeking to better understand religion. Christianity seems to be more lax than most religions on the how and where one must worship.
Besides the huge issue of the "free exercise clause" of the 1st amendment of the Constitution being a direct violation of the 1st and 2nd Commandment of God, the denial of the various governments to allow Christians to gather in even small groups would violate scriptures like Hebrews 10-24-25, "24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." There are other scriptures like in Acts that talk about "When you gather to break bread on the first day of the week" indicating an assumption that the brethren met on the 1st day of the week (Sunday) to worship. It's true that the NT doesn't teach that the brethren are to meet in a specific place, church buildings being a convenient place to meet, sometimes in the past the brethren met in fields because the government of the day took away their churches and was trying to kill them. Nevertheless they were to meet together by the command of God. There is also a direct conflict because our governments denying the ability of the churches to do the Lord's supper.
The_War_Wagon
05-31-20, 12:22
No need...I've read "Bondage of the Will", it's about as Calvinistic as it gets. Generally speaking modern people tend to use "Calvinism" to describe the doctrines of grace in a generic way. In the days of Luther and Calvin themselves, they didn't really use these terms. Even though Calvin and Luther were maybe a generation apart, their doctrine on the inability of men to "choose" to be saved were quite similar.
Calvinists are becoming MORE Lutheran?! Maybe there's hope for you YET... ;)
Calvinists are becoming MORE Lutheran?! Maybe there's hope for you YET... ;)
I don't think Calvin and Luther differed that much on soteriology back then. So, if you want to say the Reformed of the day were more like Luther, I'm OK with that. They did have a huge difference concerning the Lord's supper though. Luther didn't consider Zwingli (who predated Calvin) to be a brother over the issue. Having read the Lutheran (MS) confession of faith, I would have to say that we in the Reformed camp would have a serious disagreement with their soteriology today. We don't believe you can lose your salvation. I personally think that part of the MS doctrine is incoherent and not much different than Arminianism.
Evel Baldgui
05-31-20, 13:31
I went to services just because the .gov said I couldn't, we had a nice small service of about 15 people. No bother from LE. Then again, it wasn't a 100+ megachurch service either.
Decisions like this just further push the court into irreverence. It’s the same rationale that permits 2A infringement as a public safety issue.
As such, ignore it and live your lives.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Michigan was apparently ok with the gay sex club being open until the exposure of the duplicity started stacking up about a week ago.
https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/authorities-closes-south-lansing-sex-club-over-alleged-shutdown-violations,14460
Our constitution died when the Patriot Act passed.
Oh, probably long before that. And as unnecessary as the Patriot Act is I'm not 100% certain it violates the Constitution. It probably is a 4th amendment violation but I'd have to look at it closer to be sure.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.