View Full Version : Aimpoint PRO or Scope
Want to put some sights on my Armalite AR10 and have a$450.00 budget left, Having a hard time picking which is best out to 300yds.
Tx 5shank
What is the role the firearm is intended to fill? If it is a "battle rifle" role, you would be well served with the Aimpoint or LPVO. If it is a DMR/SPR type, then I'd keep saving on the optic to buy quality.
titsonritz
06-05-20, 15:05
If $450 is the budget, go with the Pro.
Home protection
I don’t think home protection would require any or much magnification so I’d go with some sort of red dot or holographic sight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
RDS, namely an Aimpoint Pro for your price point.
I'd say the Aimpoint PRO.
Tell me about the PRO, Battery life, Shake awake? How good is it at 300 yds? Problems? What do you like and what are the down sides?
Here's a bunch of info for you to absorb.
https://www.aimpoint.com/product/aimpoint-pro/
How well do you do at 300 yards with irons?
Tell me about the PRO, Battery life, Shake awake? How good is it at 300 yds? Problems? What do you like and what are the down sides?
Battery life is good. Even on my older Comp, I usually leave it on and change the battery every 6 months as a precaution. The PRO battery last longer than the older Comp series. This makes shake-awake irrelevant. It's about as tough as you can expect a RDS to be, and if you can see the target at 300, you should be able to hit it. It's the default everyone goes to for a dependable optic, and that's really all there really is to say about it. Inside your budget, it is a slam dunk. I set new shooters up with it and we don't usually revisit the subject because there isn't more to expect from a non-magnified optic inside the 300 yard bubble.
Did a little phone shopping and best price is $409.00, can't seem to do better.
That's not bad. The E&E here often has them used for $325-$375. Being that my original Comp is 12 years old and working fine, it is a good long term investment in terms of actual use.
I still feel my PRO is a good purchase years later. I turn mine off when I am not using it, so really cannot comment on battery use. I would judge it is as capable at long range as iron sights - very vision dependent.
Honestly, the only real negatives are weight and possibly dis-satisfaction with the provided mount. I'm still using the standard QRP2 mount, and have had no issues with it.
Andy
I still feel my PRO is a good purchase years later. I turn mine off when I am not using it, so really cannot comment on battery use. I would judge it is as capable at long range as iron sights - very vision dependent.
Honestly, the only real negatives are weight and possibly dis-satisfaction with the provided mount. I'm still using the standard QRP2 mount, and have had no issues with it.
Andy
Good call. I forgot that everyone seemingly upgrades the mount, myself included. That said, I don't know of any issues with the factory mount. I just always found the knob a bit obtrusive, and most of my purchases came in upgraded mounts.
Lots of vendors like Geissele / Scalarworks / American Defense offer Aimpoint Pros in their mounts for not much more than with the QRP2 mount from Aimpoint.
The OEM mount is completely useable but if you know off the bat you are going to change it, I think it's worth seeing if someone offers it what way.
Mine is a 2012 model and is working fine. It's kind of the 'extra' RDS that gets moved around a good bit and been on various AR15s, SCAR 16/17s, and a 9MM SBR. Currently it's on a Colt CCU upper with an Aimpoint 3X-C.
Boy I might have opened a can of worms for my self? Came across the Trijicon MRO with the LaRue mount and now need to do some home work on them also, anyone care to act as the adult here and set me straight?
Boy I might have opened a can of worms for my self? Came across the Trijicon MRO with the LaRue mount and now need to do some home work on them also, anyone care to act as the adult here and set me straight?
The good:
Much lighter and smaller than an AP PRO, has an off position between 2 and 3 settings so you don't have to crank it up from 0 each time like the PRO, good battery life, 7075 body, made in USA.
The bad:
Early MROs were not true 1x and had a tint, all the MROs are said to suffer from parallax issues. Green dot MRO battery life is much shorter than red.
The aggravating - doesn't come with any sort of lens covers.
I have both a PRO and early red dot MRO and prefer the MRO. The not-1x and tint were news to me when I read it because I never noticed and I shoot the MRO as well (or as poorly) as my other dot sights.
Andy
P.S. I forgot the MRO uses the common CR2032 battery instead of the weird battery Aimpoint uses. Admittdly, it's not hard to get some batteries online for the PRO and be set for years.
I pretty much always end up saying the same thing on these threads.
I preferred the MRO over the CompM3 (PRO was derived from this). The optical effect of the larger objective lens works for me, and the lighter weight is a bonus. Tint isn’t noticeable. Any new MRO (for years now) will not have the original noticeable magnification. Parallax is apparently a thing, but I’m not operator enough to be shooting upside down or around corners.
The “easy button” is still the PRO, but the MRO is a slightly different, and equal (once everything is considered) choice.
If ya get a decent (doesn't need to be perfect) cheekweld, the parallax of the MRO is a non-issue.
The lighter weight of the MRO is certainly noticeable. Slight tint......you're not photographing something, so why does it matter? If you can identify the target, then you can perforate it.
Functionally, I see no real difference between the PRO, the ML3, and the M4.
The PRO was the last full sized RDS I bought. I bought the MRO after it, then another, so no more PROs for me.
grizzlyblake
06-06-20, 20:42
I love the size and clarity of the MRO but the parallax issue is real. I had one on the factory Trijicon absolute cowitness mount and when flipping up a Magpul MBUS Pro rear and shooting through it I was off a good 3” at 25yds.
I now have two AP PROs. Is there any harm in putting a little thread locker on the screw before tightening?
I love the size and clarity of the MRO but the parallax issue is real. I had one on the factory Trijicon absolute cowitness mount and when flipping up a Magpul MBUS Pro rear and shooting through it I was off a good 3” at 25yds.
Can you better explain this? What were you using as the aiming point in these two situations?
I guess if you never ask you never know and you boy's are teaching a old dog about RDS sights. I've noticed the tint when looking through Red Dots in the store and often wonder if it comes into play at the times of day when to light is waning. In using a lighted cross-bow scope at dark in the woods I've never been impressed and much prefer to keep the scope in the lowest setting or off. It sounds to me that more then a few of you have done your voting with your wallets so I take your opinions seriously and and am fast learning that I don't know @#$% about RDS's or Prism scopes!
I have 2 PRO's, never had any problems. The battery life is years and while odd, batteries aren't prohibitively expensive.
Inside home defense a dot or even irons are fine. When you bumped it to 300 yards, as taekwondopreacher said, if you can see it, you can hit it. That's the catch and where an LPVO shines. If you haven't shot a 2 or 3 gun match with steel out to a couple hundred yards you really should try it. A target not painted to stand out can blend in a lot better than you may think before witnessing it first hand.
If the longer range is a concern I would lean towards an LPVO, prismatic, or the MRO(or other similar size) combined with a magnifier because the PRO plus magnifier starts getting in to some weight/bulk issues I think are best nipped in the bud when looking at current offerings.
I guess if you never ask you never know and you boy's are teaching a old dog about RDS sights. I've noticed the tint when looking through Red Dots in the store and often wonder if it comes into play at the times of day when to light is waning. In using a lighted cross-bow scope at dark in the woods I've never been impressed and much prefer to keep the scope in the lowest setting or off. It sounds to me that more then a few of you have done your voting with your wallets so I take your opinions seriously and and am fast learning that I don't know @#$% about RDS's or Prism scopes!
How old a dog are you Shank? I ask because many of us have issues with astigmatism when we age. The condition makes the dot look distorted. For me RDS aren't practical for long range use. I still use an MRO on my house rifle but there isn't much possibility of needing to make a shot longer than 40-50 yards. The slight parallax isn't an issue unless you just want to make it one.
grizzlyblake
06-07-20, 12:47
Can you better explain this? What were you using as the aiming point in these two situations?
Sionics Patrol 3E. Magpul MBUS Pros. Trijicon MRO (latest generation) on factory Trijicon absolute co-witness mount.
I zeroed the irons, appx. 1.4" low at 25yd (indoor range, benched). Then zeroed the MRO with the sights flipped down. Then flipped up the rear MBUS Pro to "sharpen the dot." The Trijicon absolute cowitness is not absolute with those sights, it's slightly taller, so looking through the rear MBUS Pro the dot had to come down a bit in relation to the MRO's window. Essentially the dot was slightly below center when aiming through the iron sight. POA was a cross grid zeroing target, so figure 1/2" bullseye area.
POI at same POA shooting the MRO dot through the rear MBUS Pro was appx. 3" off at 25yds. For the life of me I cannot recall if the POI was lower or higher.
I have purchased 14 PRO's for my and family member's rifles. I have recommended them to countless others. The LE agencies I used to work for use them. There has never been an issue with any of them. That says something about the quality and durability.
I change the covers so that both back and front are see-through. It isn't really necessary, but red dot sights aren't either for that matter. Iron sights have worked for centuries. LOL.
I'd rather spend the $14 or whatever it is to be able to look through the PRO rightfriggingnownownow without flipping a cover up, not have the mental disruption of an occluded eye sight I am not used to in an emergency, and still have the lenses protected.
Reasonably competent shooters can employ a 1x RDS for hundreds of yards on B/C steel, or smaller.
LPV's don't let you shoot better, they let you see better. It's helpful if you can dial dope, but not essential.
300 yards isn't far.
The PRO is excellent, all the essentials of it's siblings at a lower price. When you're done with it, there's always something else to put it on or someone else that wants it.
A PRO is substantially more durable than an LPV at or near the same price point.
Irons on rifles aren't really a discussion anymore. With optics like the PRO, fewer folks are even mounting a buis.
I have a couple of MROs that I leave on a medium setting so they’re always ready to go. Battery life isn’t what I’d like it to be but it’s a really nice compact sight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sionics Patrol 3E. Magpul MBUS Pros. Trijicon MRO (latest generation) on factory Trijicon absolute co-witness mount.
I zeroed the irons, appx. 1.4" low at 25yd (indoor range, benched). Then zeroed the MRO with the sights flipped down. Then flipped up the rear MBUS Pro to "sharpen the dot." The Trijicon absolute cowitness is not absolute with those sights, it's slightly taller, so looking through the rear MBUS Pro the dot had to come down a bit in relation to the MRO's window. Essentially the dot was slightly below center when aiming through the iron sight. POA was a cross grid zeroing target, so figure 1/2" bullseye area.
POI at same POA shooting the MRO dot through the rear MBUS Pro was appx. 3" off at 25yds. For the life of me I cannot recall if the POI was lower or higher.
Your absolute co-witness mount not co-witnessing with your irons makes your post make more sense. I took an AR with an MRO on an ADM lower 1/3 mount with me to the range today. I get a roughly 1.5" upward offset at 23 yards when centering the dot in the Troy BUIS aperture.
I agree that the sight exhibits more parallax error than what's ideal. I just read through the product information web page, and I don't see any mention of parallax, which I vaguelly recall reading previously. As I said earlier, if you put the dot into the center of the FOV (not hard when a proper cheekweld is used), there is no parallax. The further the distance to the target (which increases the error), the more time you should have to get it right.
You getting twice the POI offset from a more centered dot is odd.
The PRO is a solid optic, and I'm completely comfortable using one on an HD AR. I've been running my ML3 since 2011, with absolutely no issues so far.
So the question is "How Old" old enough to have 2 fake knees, a rebuilt left shoulder, 3 heart attacks (last one got me 4 way bypass last Nov 1st ) and 15 days in a crappy bed.The list is getting a bit long so I'll just say "I'm Old" The good news is I can still bench press 200 LBS 10 times X 5 sets and Don't for a minute think Old People can't get really pissed! Other then that it's great you young whipper snappers will take the time with the old folks which reminds me it's time for my double Meta Mucil latte .
fingerguns
06-08-20, 01:39
So I have a question about irons with the MRO. I am set up irons only right now but eventually I would like to add a MRO on a lower 3rd mount. I am curious how much the already zeroed irons would shift due to looking through the RDS if any. Is this a thing?
So I have a question about irons with the MRO. I am set up irons only right now but eventually I would like to add a MRO on a lower 3rd mount. I am curious how much the already zeroed irons would shift due to looking through the RDS if any. Is this a thing?
Confirming iron sight POI while zeroing the MRO is the simplest way to answer that question.
Andy
grizzlyblake
06-08-20, 07:13
So I have a question about irons with the MRO. I am set up irons only right now but eventually I would like to add a MRO on a lower 3rd mount. I am curious how much the already zeroed irons would shift due to looking through the RDS if any. Is this a thing?
I don't know about the MRO, but I know the Aimpoint T2 does skew the image enough that POI is different when shooting the irons through the T2 when it's off.
If you are not using a QD mount and your plan is to shoot irons through the dead MRO you need to re-zero your irons that way.
grizzlyblake
06-08-20, 07:15
Your absolute co-witness mount not co-witnessing with your irons makes your post make more sense. I took an AR with an MRO on an ADM lower 1/3 mount with me to the range today. I get a roughly 1.5" upward offset at 23 yards when centering the dot in the Troy BUIS aperture.
I agree that the sight exhibits more parallax error than what's ideal. I just read through the product information web page, and I don't see any mention of parallax, which I vaguelly recall reading previously. As I said earlier, if you put the dot into the center of the FOV (not hard when a proper cheekweld is used), there is no parallax. The further the distance to the target (which increases the error), the more time you should have to get it right.
You getting twice the POI offset from a more centered dot is odd.
The PRO is a solid optic, and I'm completely comfortable using one on an HD AR. I've been running my ML3 since 2011, with absolutely no issues so far.
I'm guessing the Trijicon absolute mount is slightly taller than your ADM absolute mount.
Either way, to me having that much POI change from such slight "misalignment" of the red dot is not acceptable. It's a shame because I really like the MRO otherwise.
I have purchased 14 PRO's for my and family member's rifles. I have recommended them to countless others. The LE agencies I used to work for use them. There has never been an issue with any of them. That says something about the quality and durability.
I change the covers so that both back and front are see-through. It isn't really necessary, but red dot sights aren't either for that matter. Iron sights have worked for centuries. LOL.
I'd rather spend the $14 or whatever it is to be able to look through the PRO rightfriggingnownownow without flipping a cover up, not have the mental disruption of an occluded eye sight I am not used to in an emergency, and still have the lenses protected.
You don't need a see through front cover to use a RDS. I actually train people to use dot sights with the front covered. If it doesn't have a solid front cover I put a couple of pieces of electrical tape over it.
RKB Armory
06-11-20, 08:27
As of writing this, we have a like new in box Aimpoint Pro for $341.00. It won't last long at that price.
Want to put some sights on my Armalite AR10 and have a$450.00 budget left, Having a hard time picking which is best out to 300yds.
Tx 5shank
So the question is "How Old" old enough to have 2 fake knees, a rebuilt left shoulder, 3 heart attacks (last one got me 4 way bypass last Nov 1st ) and 15 days in a crappy bed.The list is getting a bit long so I'll just say "I'm Old" The good news is I can still bench press 200 LBS 10 times X 5 sets and Don't for a minute think Old People can't get really pissed! Other then that it's great you young whipper snappers will take the time with the old folks which reminds me it's time for my double Meta Mucil latte .
I would make a Clint-ism joke about using an AR10 for home defense, but I'm guessing hearing loss will not be an issue for you. :jester:
Old-people jokes aside, for 300 yards and in, your biological eyesight is going to be more of a factor than the optic. Any reasonable quality RDS, Prism, or LPVO you could get for your budget range will more than get the job done within that distance.
So, the question here is, how good are your eyes? Do you have an astigmatism? Can you see a target at 300m with your naked eye?
If you have an astigmatism, an RDS will NOT be your friend, but prisms and scopes will be fine.
If you can't see a target out to 300 without mag, than ANY fixed 1x/0x will not be your friend, and you'll need an LPVO.
For your budget, you may want to check out the Primary Arms SFP LPVOs. IF you can find any in stock; Plus they're going for crazy prices on Ebay right now used.
If you think a RDS will work, you probably can't beat that PRO price from RKB.
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