PrivateCitizen
06-05-20, 16:20
I am not, topically, a professional. Opinions are my own. Take it the way you want.
I am also *not* a photographer at all so for now this has no images. I will try to get some this weekend. The ones I did take are useless and the only thing anyone ever really cares about is “how bright is it” and photos suck at that.
I recently had the chance to compare the Credo 1-6 BDC, Vudu 1-8 HC3 and P4Xi side by side indoors and outside under a noon spring sun.
My goal was to evaluate a new LPVO with the primary purpose being broad use self-defense and ”scouting” type role.
Here are the notes, not really meant to be an article, just a recap of thoughts. Percentages are relative to the comparison and not verses other optics.
“Day Light” Brightness
Steiner – 100%
Vudu – 90% ~ 60%
Credo – 80-85% (but …)
The one thing everyone seems to care about most. I thought I did too.
Steiner is the base line at 100%. It is *easily* the brightest under direct sunlight on a cloudless sunny day at noon. The .75MOA dot projects light at probably 90-95% of an Aimpoint T1 (the T1 I feel has 2 settings too bright)
Vudu does basically well in brightness indoors and can match up to the Steiner’s ‘8’ setting. The Vudu fiberoptic dot kind of small at .5MOA. It pretty much washes out to a Steiner setting of ‘5’ or ‘6’ under sunlight. It just doesn’t have the output. It is marginally better if you have perfect eyebox position. (As I recall a Razor is still capable even though it is also a .5MOA)
Also, something I did not expect was that a red dot that small, nearly regardless of how bright, is more difficult to maintain visually during target transition. The less bright Credo was actually faster for me.
The Credo also has a very small .5MOA center dot compared to the Steiner. At a setting of ‘10’ is not as bright as the Vudu. The Credo does, however, also have that ‘open reticle’ (doughnut of death). So even though it is not as bright technically it runs faster both indoors (where it is plenty bright and an ‘8’ is fine) *and outdoors at ‘10’. The Credo does get a kind of ‘flat light’ … but as it flattens it almost ‘goes black’ in really bright light. The flick to ‘off’ from 10 and pure black is very easy and give how rare the transition would need to be hardly inconvenient. It also seems most usable moving across varied lighting conditions.
Winner: Steiner (by a mile)
If day light bright is the primary or top factor for you it is the only choice among the 3.
Reticle Usability
http://theprivatecitizen.com/_img/ret-comp.jpg
This is certainly role dependent and subjective so YMMV
Credo – 100%
Steiner – 85-90%
Vudu – 70+%
All of these are BDC or BDC-ish.
Credo is the baseline at 100%
The Credo is most useable over a spectrum for me. It is also the only one that provides any meaningful ranging ability based on the reticle. The segmented circle works in 6MOA breaks and at 18MOA total width makes on the fly distance calculations workable. It is not ACSS usable, but it works fine for a BDC. The doughnut does something the others don’t. I think is the best general purpose/scout-ish of the three.
The Steiner is simple and well designed to draw attention to the center. The reticle can be used to do some ranging (kinda-sorta if you had to), but I’d not call it fast or obvious in the same way the Credo is. Its sub-tensions work and are decreasing in width, and un-numbered, which has its benefits. The Steiner definitely has a close quarters bias. The equal to an RDS with Magnifier as a matter of practice, IMO, with addition of some holdovers.
The Vudu is … I dunno. It’s a ‘sport’ reticle, I guess. It is kind of like the Razor BDC reticle … but even more spartan. Four stadia lines, all equal width … and I suppose that is OK. It is definitely the most uncluttered but also the least useful. Doesn’t make much effort to draw you center (something the Razor does). The red dot is, as above, not as visible as the same .5MOA Razor. No ranging or the like … which seems like a growing requirement on an 8X. All told it does nothing for me.
Winner: Credo/Steiner Tie (app specific)
I was kind of surprised as I thought the brightness would kill it for me. Comes down to role/purpose really.
Imaging/Magnification
Vudu – 100%
Credo – 95%
Steiner – 90-95%
Definitely subjective
On one hand this is just a matter of platform. Each has a different magnification, so they are not directly comparable in that regard.
The edge clarity on all are very good. Distortion is absent as is aberration. Edge clarity is very good. The difference of ‘fidelity’ is noticeable, but I am going to say to a very negligible degree.
The Vudu has the best glass, to me, the best reproduction and brightest. The Credo was very close behind. I’d say it has like at 2-3% shift in color richness. The Steiner was also maybe 2-3% but it did have a slight dulling/browning of earthy colors (reds, yellows, greens).
Winner: Vudu (but only kinda)
The glass on all were excellent and any variations would have *absolutely zero* impact. The differences exist on more photographic lens level than that of an application optic.
Build/Operation /UX/Design
I have no way to qualify durability and design is very subjective, so, there …
Design
If I were shooting for the ‘gram in order of purely design/aesthetic appeal I’d say: Vudu, Steiner, then Trijicon. The Vudu team put purposeful effort into design, the Steiner team didn’t ignore it, the Trijicon team built an optic to work plain and simple (although that does have its own aesthetic value).
Build
All have that ‘duty purpose’ feel in hand and exhibit the tolerances you’d expect for something that is not expected to live an easy life. I’d also not consider any of them built to outlast Armageddon. They all weigh about the same in practice between 18-20oz.
If I had to give one a nod it’d be the Trijicon
Operation/UX
In terms of ‘in use’ Operation, by which I mean actually shooting, they are all equal. Throws are easy with the levers (the Trijicon may be a bit stubby). The higher magnifications have longer though not harder throws. The Trijicon was ‘smoothest’.
All have a throw-lever. The Steiner is a wrap-around, the Vudu and Trijicon are removeable screw-in mounts. The Vudu lever is ‘race’ length and almost excessive. The Trijicon might be a bit stubby. The Trijicon has 2 separate threaded placement options (nice touch)
FOV and Eye relief are all 3.5”-4.0” at 1X and don’t get too squirrelly at magnification. They each have a personality. Blonde, Brunette, Redhead. Eyebox on all was equally not a problem for me. All worked as you’d expect naturally. Downward Dog aiming pose requires morning yoga.
Distance FOV at max is all different, clearly, due to magnification.
Battery life comparisons on LPVOs seem irrelevant to me as none of these are meant to be always on. That said the Vudu and Steiner will last longer than the Trijicon. I suspect that has to do with the needed intensity, available light and area of illumination. I have left my P4Xi’ on and they go about 10 days. Trijicon quotes 68 hours. The Vudu ‘wins’ in that it is auto off.
Wind/elevation adjustments on the Vudu and Trijicon are the same but different, the Steiner is infamously mushy. All are capped. I don’t care much with these really. Set/forget.
In terms of illumination adjustments, the Vudu is an oddity. It uses buttons and not rotary dials for illumination and has an auto-off after 2 hours. The latter is a nice touch as I doubt I am the only one that has left the LPVO on by mistake. Turning it on is just a quick button press. It retains the last setting. Adjusting power/brightness is cumbersome, non-tactile, spongy, and vague. You never really know where you are. It blinks when you hit max but … you have to be down in the reticle to notice and it only blinks for half a second. I thought I’d love it. I just don’t. Gloves? Forget it.
The Trijicon and the Steiner work like every other LPVO while employing non-locking illuminations dials. The Trijicon is more clicky than the Steiner. I find its numbers a better contextual representation than the Steiner’s growing geometric dots for ‘levels’.
The Steiner ‘ends’ at its highest setting, the Trijicon is a ‘continuous’ rotation. It’s a philosophy and I see merit in both.
Winner: N/A (but Trijicon more or less)
No Winner but the Vudu ‘loses’ because of the rubber bubbles brightness settings. It’s gross.
Summary / Sorta TLDR;
Winner: The Trijicon Credo 1-6 SFP
This is the best ‘all around’ to me. While it falls short on ‘day light bright’ it still works and is otherwise more useful on a broader set of circumstances, some of which I think are, in terms of practicality, more important … magnification benefit, reticle benefit, potential durability.
If I wanted to save a load of coin and get 90+% of a K16i at half the cost (and use the money for an offset MRDS RMR) this is the choice. The Credo reticle, for me in this 6X range, is more useful than most and def better than the Razor (sorry, true)
Trijicon Credo 1-6 + Offset RMR == better than an RDS+3XMag unless primary role is CQ heavy/door kicking and expected. (I’m selling my NIB EXPS, btw)
Winner: Steiner P4Xi 1-4 SFP
Many have known this for a while, the P4Xi is special. It was my first LPVO and I have owned 2 for a few years.
The P4Xi is the lightweight champ. The Jack. Light, fast, bright, capable. This is the general pick I’d recommend (and I’m no one, really) for hard RDS guys or general patrol LPVO. Fast and bright enough to mimic an RDS, magnification gets you close(r) for that sub 50 yard dead on pressure shot. I’d say this serves the broadest well-armed citizen best in the broadest, most practical way, particularly in tight/urban settings.
Recent price hikes have made it more of a question mark … it’s what initiated this process for me.
Loser: EOTech Vudu 1-8 SFP
Yeah, loser. I wanted to like, even love, this optic. It was supposed to be the EOTech answer to the Razor 1-6 and the non-existent/hypothetical Steiner P6Xi. It really fell flat. Maybe I was expecting it to be something the engineers didn’t. The marketing people had my number though (which sucks because the blurb reads like a J Peterman entry).
I don’t 3gun and I guess that is maybe why I am missing something.
The reticle was lacking, the ‘daylight bright’ promise was there but not in an unusable way … and which I came to question with the Credo’s unexpected performance. In the end made me rethink the entire notion … daylight bright … but why, exactly?
The UI/UX on the Vudu is trying to innovate and I acknowledge that it is hard to do successfully. But the result of their efforts leans so heavily to the sport community I just can’t consider it practically for any other purpose.
In the end EOTech reached for the brass ring and fell right of the merry-go-round. I sent it back.
But it looks cool.
I am also *not* a photographer at all so for now this has no images. I will try to get some this weekend. The ones I did take are useless and the only thing anyone ever really cares about is “how bright is it” and photos suck at that.
I recently had the chance to compare the Credo 1-6 BDC, Vudu 1-8 HC3 and P4Xi side by side indoors and outside under a noon spring sun.
My goal was to evaluate a new LPVO with the primary purpose being broad use self-defense and ”scouting” type role.
Here are the notes, not really meant to be an article, just a recap of thoughts. Percentages are relative to the comparison and not verses other optics.
“Day Light” Brightness
Steiner – 100%
Vudu – 90% ~ 60%
Credo – 80-85% (but …)
The one thing everyone seems to care about most. I thought I did too.
Steiner is the base line at 100%. It is *easily* the brightest under direct sunlight on a cloudless sunny day at noon. The .75MOA dot projects light at probably 90-95% of an Aimpoint T1 (the T1 I feel has 2 settings too bright)
Vudu does basically well in brightness indoors and can match up to the Steiner’s ‘8’ setting. The Vudu fiberoptic dot kind of small at .5MOA. It pretty much washes out to a Steiner setting of ‘5’ or ‘6’ under sunlight. It just doesn’t have the output. It is marginally better if you have perfect eyebox position. (As I recall a Razor is still capable even though it is also a .5MOA)
Also, something I did not expect was that a red dot that small, nearly regardless of how bright, is more difficult to maintain visually during target transition. The less bright Credo was actually faster for me.
The Credo also has a very small .5MOA center dot compared to the Steiner. At a setting of ‘10’ is not as bright as the Vudu. The Credo does, however, also have that ‘open reticle’ (doughnut of death). So even though it is not as bright technically it runs faster both indoors (where it is plenty bright and an ‘8’ is fine) *and outdoors at ‘10’. The Credo does get a kind of ‘flat light’ … but as it flattens it almost ‘goes black’ in really bright light. The flick to ‘off’ from 10 and pure black is very easy and give how rare the transition would need to be hardly inconvenient. It also seems most usable moving across varied lighting conditions.
Winner: Steiner (by a mile)
If day light bright is the primary or top factor for you it is the only choice among the 3.
Reticle Usability
http://theprivatecitizen.com/_img/ret-comp.jpg
This is certainly role dependent and subjective so YMMV
Credo – 100%
Steiner – 85-90%
Vudu – 70+%
All of these are BDC or BDC-ish.
Credo is the baseline at 100%
The Credo is most useable over a spectrum for me. It is also the only one that provides any meaningful ranging ability based on the reticle. The segmented circle works in 6MOA breaks and at 18MOA total width makes on the fly distance calculations workable. It is not ACSS usable, but it works fine for a BDC. The doughnut does something the others don’t. I think is the best general purpose/scout-ish of the three.
The Steiner is simple and well designed to draw attention to the center. The reticle can be used to do some ranging (kinda-sorta if you had to), but I’d not call it fast or obvious in the same way the Credo is. Its sub-tensions work and are decreasing in width, and un-numbered, which has its benefits. The Steiner definitely has a close quarters bias. The equal to an RDS with Magnifier as a matter of practice, IMO, with addition of some holdovers.
The Vudu is … I dunno. It’s a ‘sport’ reticle, I guess. It is kind of like the Razor BDC reticle … but even more spartan. Four stadia lines, all equal width … and I suppose that is OK. It is definitely the most uncluttered but also the least useful. Doesn’t make much effort to draw you center (something the Razor does). The red dot is, as above, not as visible as the same .5MOA Razor. No ranging or the like … which seems like a growing requirement on an 8X. All told it does nothing for me.
Winner: Credo/Steiner Tie (app specific)
I was kind of surprised as I thought the brightness would kill it for me. Comes down to role/purpose really.
Imaging/Magnification
Vudu – 100%
Credo – 95%
Steiner – 90-95%
Definitely subjective
On one hand this is just a matter of platform. Each has a different magnification, so they are not directly comparable in that regard.
The edge clarity on all are very good. Distortion is absent as is aberration. Edge clarity is very good. The difference of ‘fidelity’ is noticeable, but I am going to say to a very negligible degree.
The Vudu has the best glass, to me, the best reproduction and brightest. The Credo was very close behind. I’d say it has like at 2-3% shift in color richness. The Steiner was also maybe 2-3% but it did have a slight dulling/browning of earthy colors (reds, yellows, greens).
Winner: Vudu (but only kinda)
The glass on all were excellent and any variations would have *absolutely zero* impact. The differences exist on more photographic lens level than that of an application optic.
Build/Operation /UX/Design
I have no way to qualify durability and design is very subjective, so, there …
Design
If I were shooting for the ‘gram in order of purely design/aesthetic appeal I’d say: Vudu, Steiner, then Trijicon. The Vudu team put purposeful effort into design, the Steiner team didn’t ignore it, the Trijicon team built an optic to work plain and simple (although that does have its own aesthetic value).
Build
All have that ‘duty purpose’ feel in hand and exhibit the tolerances you’d expect for something that is not expected to live an easy life. I’d also not consider any of them built to outlast Armageddon. They all weigh about the same in practice between 18-20oz.
If I had to give one a nod it’d be the Trijicon
Operation/UX
In terms of ‘in use’ Operation, by which I mean actually shooting, they are all equal. Throws are easy with the levers (the Trijicon may be a bit stubby). The higher magnifications have longer though not harder throws. The Trijicon was ‘smoothest’.
All have a throw-lever. The Steiner is a wrap-around, the Vudu and Trijicon are removeable screw-in mounts. The Vudu lever is ‘race’ length and almost excessive. The Trijicon might be a bit stubby. The Trijicon has 2 separate threaded placement options (nice touch)
FOV and Eye relief are all 3.5”-4.0” at 1X and don’t get too squirrelly at magnification. They each have a personality. Blonde, Brunette, Redhead. Eyebox on all was equally not a problem for me. All worked as you’d expect naturally. Downward Dog aiming pose requires morning yoga.
Distance FOV at max is all different, clearly, due to magnification.
Battery life comparisons on LPVOs seem irrelevant to me as none of these are meant to be always on. That said the Vudu and Steiner will last longer than the Trijicon. I suspect that has to do with the needed intensity, available light and area of illumination. I have left my P4Xi’ on and they go about 10 days. Trijicon quotes 68 hours. The Vudu ‘wins’ in that it is auto off.
Wind/elevation adjustments on the Vudu and Trijicon are the same but different, the Steiner is infamously mushy. All are capped. I don’t care much with these really. Set/forget.
In terms of illumination adjustments, the Vudu is an oddity. It uses buttons and not rotary dials for illumination and has an auto-off after 2 hours. The latter is a nice touch as I doubt I am the only one that has left the LPVO on by mistake. Turning it on is just a quick button press. It retains the last setting. Adjusting power/brightness is cumbersome, non-tactile, spongy, and vague. You never really know where you are. It blinks when you hit max but … you have to be down in the reticle to notice and it only blinks for half a second. I thought I’d love it. I just don’t. Gloves? Forget it.
The Trijicon and the Steiner work like every other LPVO while employing non-locking illuminations dials. The Trijicon is more clicky than the Steiner. I find its numbers a better contextual representation than the Steiner’s growing geometric dots for ‘levels’.
The Steiner ‘ends’ at its highest setting, the Trijicon is a ‘continuous’ rotation. It’s a philosophy and I see merit in both.
Winner: N/A (but Trijicon more or less)
No Winner but the Vudu ‘loses’ because of the rubber bubbles brightness settings. It’s gross.
Summary / Sorta TLDR;
Winner: The Trijicon Credo 1-6 SFP
This is the best ‘all around’ to me. While it falls short on ‘day light bright’ it still works and is otherwise more useful on a broader set of circumstances, some of which I think are, in terms of practicality, more important … magnification benefit, reticle benefit, potential durability.
If I wanted to save a load of coin and get 90+% of a K16i at half the cost (and use the money for an offset MRDS RMR) this is the choice. The Credo reticle, for me in this 6X range, is more useful than most and def better than the Razor (sorry, true)
Trijicon Credo 1-6 + Offset RMR == better than an RDS+3XMag unless primary role is CQ heavy/door kicking and expected. (I’m selling my NIB EXPS, btw)
Winner: Steiner P4Xi 1-4 SFP
Many have known this for a while, the P4Xi is special. It was my first LPVO and I have owned 2 for a few years.
The P4Xi is the lightweight champ. The Jack. Light, fast, bright, capable. This is the general pick I’d recommend (and I’m no one, really) for hard RDS guys or general patrol LPVO. Fast and bright enough to mimic an RDS, magnification gets you close(r) for that sub 50 yard dead on pressure shot. I’d say this serves the broadest well-armed citizen best in the broadest, most practical way, particularly in tight/urban settings.
Recent price hikes have made it more of a question mark … it’s what initiated this process for me.
Loser: EOTech Vudu 1-8 SFP
Yeah, loser. I wanted to like, even love, this optic. It was supposed to be the EOTech answer to the Razor 1-6 and the non-existent/hypothetical Steiner P6Xi. It really fell flat. Maybe I was expecting it to be something the engineers didn’t. The marketing people had my number though (which sucks because the blurb reads like a J Peterman entry).
I don’t 3gun and I guess that is maybe why I am missing something.
The reticle was lacking, the ‘daylight bright’ promise was there but not in an unusable way … and which I came to question with the Credo’s unexpected performance. In the end made me rethink the entire notion … daylight bright … but why, exactly?
The UI/UX on the Vudu is trying to innovate and I acknowledge that it is hard to do successfully. But the result of their efforts leans so heavily to the sport community I just can’t consider it practically for any other purpose.
In the end EOTech reached for the brass ring and fell right of the merry-go-round. I sent it back.
But it looks cool.