View Full Version : What would stoner do....Brownells CS update......FYI
I pre-ordered one of these lowers in January.
Talked to a very helpful Gal who told me these would be at FFLs starting July.
Posting this because information seems unavailable other ways and it may be helpful to those who are interested.
:cool:
Which lowers?
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-kp-15-stripped-lower-receivers-polymer-prod132660.aspx
Redo-improved polymer one piece lower....lite
Moonlight Again
06-06-20, 20:21
Outstanding news!
This will devolve into a bash polymer thread.....
What would Stoner do? Probably roll over in his grave!
This will devolve into a bash polymer thread.....
Some people's budgets don't allow for higher end options. In some cases, not even standard options. Case in point: I sat down with a few young men who were interested in shooting but worked in a factory for about $11/hr. After paying bills, they had $30-50 left over on payday. It took a while, but we were able to find them lower end stuff that worked until they could get jobs that paid better. The lower from the OP could be an option for individuals like I'm referring to.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-07-20, 08:47
I figured the whole WWSD thing would be popular among the reddit crowd but no so much on M4C. While this KE Arms version of the Cav15 lowers is probably the only decent polymer AR lower on the market, you're still left with a fixed stock you can't change and a pistol grip that you can't swap out either. I'm not sure the weight savings is all that significant either, seems like I read somewhere it was only a few ounces but I can't remember exactly.
This will devolve into a bash polymer thread.....
There is no reason why it should. If someone wants to start an intelligent thread about their complaints of polymer lowers, they should start a new thread. This one is dedicated to a product which has supposedly been improved and its even available yet.
I have zero complaints about the A1 stock lengths, after all, that is part of the reason I own a CavArms style lower. I don’t care about the few unique parts, a takedown pin isn’t something that needs replacing anyway, at least not very often. The pistol grip is also a non issue, after all, I knew what it was before I bought it.
On my CaVArms lowers I do wish it had the A1 buffer and spring, instead of carbine buffer and spring. It isn’t a huge deal, and like I said above, I knew it before bought them.
I think I bought 10 of the CavArms poly lowers. I’ve given some away, but of concern to me was that several of them when received new were already split along the front of the mag well. When I say split, I mean split in half (totally). I know that I can fix them, or at least I assume I can, and I bought them when they were dirt cheap, so I’m not worked up about it. Some day I’ll brace and glue it. Lastly, there are a few trigger packs that won’t fit. The interior is very tight. It isn’t the end of the world, but again, I’ll point out that I bought these dirt cheap. Had I bought just one for a review, and it were to have been received damaged and trigger packs not fitting as well as triggers being tight, it would be scathing indeed.
I bring up the above things as items to look out for if and when you purchase one of the new KE Arms lowers. It sounds like they have fixed a bunch of issues, so hopefully it is all well.
I figured the whole WWSD thing would be popular among the reddit crowd but no so much on M4C. While this KE Arms version of the Cav15 lowers is probably the only decent polymer AR lower on the market, you're still left with a fixed stock you can't change and a pistol grip that you can't swap out either. I'm not sure the weight savings is all that significant either, seems like I read somewhere it was only a few ounces but I can't remember exactly.
As the saying goes, ounces is pounds. It’s been a while since I watched any of the WWSD videos but I believe they also talked about using a carbon fiber rail. I don’t know how much weight that will save but it will depend on what it’s compared to.
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MountainRaven
06-07-20, 14:25
As the saying goes, ounces is pounds. It’s been a while since I watched any of the WWSD videos but I believe they also talked about using a carbon fiber rail. I don’t know how much weight that will save but it will depend on what it’s compared to.
Carbon fiber handguard, super-skinny barrel, and the new ones are going to have titanium muzzle devices (because it allows them to get 16" barrels, with muzzle devices, that weigh the same as the WWSD2017 guns' 14.5" barrels with super-skinny pinned flash hiders). I think the WWSD2017 guns ended up weighing in around five pounds unloaded, with an Aimpoint Micro-type optic and mount, light, and sling.
Carbon fiber handguard, super-skinny barrel, and the new ones are going to have titanium muzzle devices (because it allows them to get 16" barrels, with muzzle devices, that weigh the same as the WWSD2017 guns' 14.5" barrels with super-skinny pinned flash hiders). I think the WWSD2017 guns ended up weighing in around five pounds unloaded, with an Aimpoint Micro-type optic and mount, light, and sling.
Hence my interest............minus the carbon fiber handguard and Ti. anything.....$$$$$
Some people's budgets don't allow for higher end options. In some cases, not even standard options. Case in point: I sat down with a few young men who were interested in shooting but worked in a factory for about $11/hr. After paying bills, they had $30-50 left over on payday. It took a while, but we were able to find them lower end stuff that worked until they could get jobs that paid better. The lower from the OP could be an option for individuals like I'm referring to.
Glad to hear it... I wasn't bashing the use of alt aluminum ARs...heck I had a Carbon15 myself
If it gets newbies interested...then good.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-09-20, 11:39
As the saying goes, ounces is pounds.
Yeah, but will the people buying the WWSD rifles/lowers actually benefit from such a lightweight setup or are they just building a Youtube rifle? I mean, if you're walking miles and miles with it on a regular basis or for a person with a disability or limited upper body strength, it makes sense. But at that price point for the complete rifle, I'd go a different route.
If I wanted to know what Stoner would do, I would buy a KAC.
That's my opinion.
There is no reason why it should. If someone wants to start an intelligent thread about their complaints of polymer lowers, they should start a new thread. This one is dedicated to a product which has supposedly been improved and its even available yet.
I have zero complaints about the A1 stock lengths, after all, that is part of the reason I own a CavArms style lower. I don’t care about the few unique parts, a takedown pin isn’t something that needs replacing anyway, at least not very often. The pistol grip is also a non issue, after all, I knew what it was before I bought it.
On my CaVArms lowers I do wish it had the A1 buffer and spring, instead of carbine buffer and spring. It isn’t a huge deal, and like I said above, I knew it before bought them.
I think I bought 10 of the CavArms poly lowers. I’ve given some away, but of concern to me was that several of them when received new were already split along the front of the mag well. When I say split, I mean split in half (totally). I know that I can fix them, or at least I assume I can, and I bought them when they were dirt cheap, so I’m not worked up about it. Some day I’ll brace and glue it. Lastly, there are a few trigger packs that won’t fit. The interior is very tight. It isn’t the end of the world, but again, I’ll point out that I bought these dirt cheap. Had I bought just one for a review, and it were to have been received damaged and trigger packs not fitting as well as triggers being tight, it would be scathing indeed.
I bring up the above things as items to look out for if and when you purchase one of the new KE Arms lowers. It sounds like they have fixed a bunch of issues, so hopefully it is all well.
I think I have read the splitting issue was a bad batch and not an inherent design issue.
No idea if this warranty still stands, but may be worth looking in to.
http://www.gwacsarmory.com/tech-support/
And a 2nd on the A1 length. I set all my collapsibles that length anyway.
I think I have read the splitting issue was a bad batch and not an inherent design issue.
No idea if this warranty still stands, but may be worth looking in to.
http://www.gwacsarmory.com/tech-support/
And a 2nd on the A1 length. I set all my collapsibles that length anyway.
Thanks, I'll have to see how many I have that are defective/ split. I would rather repair them myself if that is an option versus paying money under warranty. I figure $30 to ship it, $35 for frame replacement (according to their policy), and $25 for a new transfer fee and I'm closing in on the hundred dollar mark for something that was defective out of the box.
Thanks, I'll have to see how many I have that are defective/ split. I would rather repair them myself if that is an option versus paying money under warranty. I figure $30 to ship it, $35 for frame replacement (according to their policy), and $25 for a new transfer fee and I'm closing in on the hundred dollar mark for something that was defective out of the box.Yeah that would put a big screw in the cost vs. benefit.
Seems like Inrange Karl mentioned it was fixable with a soldering iron in one of the videos they were doing on the Cav lowers prior to the KE Arms/Brownells venture.
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I dig the concept, interested to see how the new generation lowers work out as well as how the complete rifles turn out.
If I wanted to know what Stoner would do, I would buy a KAC.
That's my opinion.
That’s not the premise of the WWSD project. Have you watched any of the videos?
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That’s not the premise of the WWSD project. Have you watched any of the videos?
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I have watched the videos. I disagree with a large portion of their reasoning.
I'm not meaning to attack their character or saying they are ignorant. I just disagree with them.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-09-20, 15:11
That’s not the premise of the WWSD project. Have you watched any of the videos?
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I watched all the WWSD videos back in 2017, and at least most of them for 2020. The premise was to build the lightest rifle possible using more modern materials than plastic and aluminum, not necessarily to build the best rifle. That meant using a polymer lower, carbon fiber handguard, no BUIS, a Faxon barrel, and a Holosun. Not really my thing, but it's their project. Of those choices, the only one that I was intrigued by was the carbon fiber free float rail. I worked in a plant back in 1999-2000 working with carbon fiber and I was always blown away how light the parts were that we made in comparison to the aluminum or steel versions. It was a T&E facility, and I never really knew what we were making, I was a shop assistant and did a lot of the grunt work like mixing resins, cleaning molds, and trimming parts etc.
The WWSD project is Karl, Ian, and now Russell Phagan's project and is their version of WWSD based on their opinions of what Eugene Stoner would design today. Chad gave his opinion on what that would be. Mine would be something along the lines of the LMT MARS-L and MRP upper. Again, just individual opinions of what Stoner would do.
HardToHandle
06-09-20, 20:15
Cool premise for an intellectual exercise but the WWSD results just seem extreme, esp. towards low weight.
Stoner also took modularity to extremes with the 63s and towards cheap manufacturing with the AR-18.
Many hands in the Stoner design have created a pretty impressive outcome regardless.
62795
I do think Brownells deserves some recognition for the sponsorship. The WWSD concept fits with their Retro line and is a neat gamble. They also created the AR-18 upper concept which is just plain cool.
I may end up with a WWSD lower just as a moral supporter.
I think it's commendable of them to bring at least the lower to the market. IMO it's an interesting product, might not fit everyone's taste, but definitely something unique and different.
I wish they would do a cold-weather testing/comparison vs a standard AR lower and handguard.
I’m kinda surprised with this latest incarnation of the lower that they didn’t design the grip to accommodate different back straps and side panels in the vein of, say an HK VP9 or something.
Maybe it doesn’t add enough functionality to justify the extra expense and manufacturing complexity.
titsonritz
06-11-20, 13:47
I’m kinda surprised with this latest incarnation of the lower that they didn’t design the grip to accommodate different back straps and side panels in the vein of, say an HK VP9 or something.
Maybe it doesn’t add enough functionality to justify the extra expense and manufacturing complexity.
Or at minimum, a grip with a reduced angle.
I'll probably still buy one, I was looking for a CavArms lower a while back but gave up.
Mike Miller
06-11-20, 14:03
This lower does have a reduced grip angle compared to the Cav Arms lowers
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