View Full Version : Sig to Germany - F You
Sig is shutting down the German factory. What I hear is due to bullshit laws and biased contracting.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/german-sig-plant-closing.4008347/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPTzHtGRUYw
Understand what I am about to write is not a statement as much as a question. Rhetorical if you will. I have a P226, W. German made, that I bought in '85. Maybe '86, I don't recall exactly. I can say it is easily the best semi auto I have owned, among many.
I hear many people saying Sig quality not being what it used to be. I don't know, because I have not owned a newer Sig.
That said, most of what we buy now (of Sigs), are made here in the US.
If the reports of inferior quality compared to the older German made products are true, what does that say about "made in the USA"?
Leonidas24
06-07-20, 16:57
If the reports of inferior quality compared to the older German made products are true, what does that say about "made in the USA"?
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Grand58742
06-07-20, 17:04
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Why not bring your factories where some of your biggest clients are?
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Rainbow patina p238s agree with this statement.
Also the American consumer is a retard. But that’s a separate issue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Leonidas24
06-07-20, 17:42
Rainbow patina p238s agree with this statement.
Also the American consumer is a retard. But that’s a separate issue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I worked gun retail for 7 years from salesman to manager and with that said the P238 wasn't the worst thing ever. It was actually a solid choice for women who wanted a small gun, and they were stupid accurate and easy to shoot too. With that said I've also almost been shot with one when I had an IDIOT customer try to thumb decock one on a loaded chamber and the hammer got away from him. No, I was not witness to him doing this but almost got nailed by the shrapnel bouncing off the floor and into the wall near where I was standing.
No, the biggest thing I hate about Sig are the 7 million different skus they have for past and current sales items. Trying to navigate RSR or Lipseys looking for the X Y or Z model we normally carry, only to find it's been discontinued after being on the market for 7 months and replaced with something else for some unknown reason.
Sig is the devil.
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Saved me some typing.
BoringGuy45
06-07-20, 19:42
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Cohen is the prototypical big businessman: Cut corners in quality, shit on customers, but make a profit so he's popular with shareholders. I was disappointed in my Sig P229, and even more disappointed in dealing with Sig's customer service. I don't plan on spending money on any Sig products at any point in the near future (though, I admit, the P320 is a decent gun, but I'm just not a huge fan of it).
hotrodder636
06-07-20, 20:21
As long as this doesn’t prevent me from getting a new production San-Swiss Sig 553, carry on...
Just bought a sig p365 today :)
Just a reminder, SIG isn't in Germany. JP Sauer is in Germany.
SIG is in Switzerland but their neutrality laws mean they can't make their guns for export, so long ago they partnered up with JP Sauer in Germany to produce SIG handguns that could be exported for sale. Hence, SIG-Sauer.
So the idea that SIG USA would tell SIG Germany to FO is absolutely comical. Basically SIG USA is announcing that they are abandoning the legitimate handgun market in favor of Franklin Mint type special editions and anyone who wants to by a serious business firearm should look to HK, FN, Glock and the like.
German export laws suck. So it’s understandable that Exeter wants to adios all ties with Germany. That means all production in the US (and India). And sadly, the QC/QA from Cohen et al at SiUgh ExeTurd is laughable. I’ll stick to my west German Sig Sauer pistols and Swiss 55x rifles. Exeter won’t get a dime from me ever again.
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Amen.
Rainbow patina p238s agree with this statement.
Also the American consumer is a retard. But that’s a separate issue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Amen.
Just a reminder, SIG isn't in Germany. JP Sauer is in Germany.
SIG is in Switzerland but their neutrality laws mean they can't make their guns for export, so long ago they partnered up with JP Sauer in Germany to produce SIG handguns that could be exported for sale. Hence, SIG-Sauer.
So the idea that SIG USA would tell SIG Germany to FO is absolutely comical. Basically SIG USA is announcing that they are abandoning the legitimate handgun market in favor of Franklin Mint type special editions and anyone who wants to by a serious business firearm should look to HK, FN, Glock and the like.
And Amen.
Sig doesn't care if you buy their crappy products today they are busy milking the .gov cash cow, they definitely bought the right people in Big Army procurement.
Johnny Rico
06-09-20, 08:15
It says that Cohen is a slut for money, and would sacrifice QA/QC to pump out product.
That’s called a whore.
WickedWillis
06-09-20, 11:26
I watched a young, timid, early teens girl drop a P320 in the stall next to me at the indoor range on Saturday because she had a piece of hot brass hit her. Completely inexperienced shooter. I knew what she was shooting, so when she dropped it my heart went into my throat for a second. Dad proceeded to pick her up by both shoulders and toss her to the side and started screaming at her, before remembering that he was in a public place. Girl was hysterical, and of course we were all asking if she was okay. Public ranges, man.
Back on topic though, the made in US P320's are insanely popular in our Country right now. With Mil and .gov contracts, and with civilian shooters of all walks. I think Sig has bounced back from their terrible rainbow and Damascus abortions as of late, as well as the drop issues with the 320 (thankfully for that girl) and are really hitting home with the "Complete weapon systems" of the last few years. They are tryign to become your one stop firearm, suppressor, optic brand. To be honest, I kind of wish other companies would take note on that, and we would see more of that from the industry.
It's pretty damn cool to walk into a Sig elite dealer and go through a shotshow-esque booth of most everything they offer. I've been a huge critic of Sig in the past, but after they took care of me on my legacy MCX issue I have come around a bit. The X5 legion, and the 365 family are awesome too. YMMV
I watched a young, timid, early teens girl drop a P320 in the stall next to me at the indoor range on Saturday because she had a piece of hot brass hit her. Completely inexperienced shooter. I knew what she was shooting, so when she dropped it my heart went into my throat for a second. Dad proceeded to pick her up by both shoulders and toss her to the side and started screaming at her, before remembering that he was in a public place. Girl was hysterical, and of course we were all asking if she was okay. Public ranges, man.
Back on topic though, the made in US P320's are insanely popular in our Country right now. With Mil and .gov contracts, and with civilian shooters of all walks. I think Sig has bounced back from their terrible rainbow and Damascus abortions as of late, as well as the drop issues with the 320 (thankfully for that girl) and are really hitting home with the "Complete weapon systems" of the last few years. They are tryign to become your one stop firearm, suppressor, optic brand. To be honest, I kind of wish other companies would take note on that, and we would see more of that from the industry.
It's pretty damn cool to walk into a Sig elite dealer and go through a shotshow-esque booth of most everything they offer. I've been a huge critic of Sig in the past, but after they took care of me on my legacy MCX issue I have come around a bit. The X5 legion, and the 365 family are awesome too. YMMV
One stop shopping for firearms and optics with parts and/or entire assemblies outsourced to India and China. Their contract wins of late seem to be due to their being the lowest cost bidder. Time will tell how the 320 and their optics hold up to mil use.
Their LMG does look interesting on paper. Again, time will tell if it’s a turd or a good firearm. Their track record with the MPX and MCX are not stellar.
WickedWillis
06-09-20, 13:12
One stop shopping for firearms and optics with parts and/or entire assemblies outsourced to India and China. Their contract wins of late seem to be due to their being the lowest cost bidder. Time will tell how the 320 and their optics hold up to mil use.
Their LMG does look interesting on paper. Again, time will tell if it’s a turd or a good firearm. Their track record with the MPX and MCX are not stellar.
Well that usually is how military contracts are won unfortunately, and also the only reason the 320 beat out Glock's offering. So I completely agree with you.
Maybe they will start making optics here in the US at some point. The optics currently made in the states are only assembled here now anyway.
Leonidas24
06-09-20, 18:06
One stop shopping for firearms and optics with parts and/or entire assemblies outsourced to India and China. Their contract wins of late seem to be due to their being the lowest cost bidder. Time will tell how the 320 and their optics hold up to mil use.
Their LMG does look interesting on paper. Again, time will tell if it’s a turd or a good firearm. Their track record with the MPX and MCX are not stellar.
Sig USA is quickly becoming the Buy-N-Large of the gun world, and unlike the specialty manufacturers no one thing they make is leaps and bounds over anything else on the market.
That’s called a whore.
Whore! Hooker! Prostitute! Shlut for money!
#Beerfest
One stop shopping for firearms and optics with parts and/or entire assemblies outsourced to India and China. Their contract wins of late seem to be due to their being the lowest cost bidder. Time will tell how the 320 and their optics hold up to mil use.
Their LMG does look interesting on paper. Again, time will tell if it’s a turd or a good firearm. Their track record with the MPX and MCX are not stellar.
I have yet to see any SIG optics that impress me, they seem to be Bushnell quality at best. I've seen some real shit grade SIG optics, like Leapers quality junk that has no business being on a firearm.
I think SIG learned their lessons from the XM9 trials and despite having a cheaper handgun than Beretta, the requested military package was more expensive than Beretta so lesson learned and $40 cheaper wins the game. The SIG performed as well as the Beretta so it all came down to "save me a dollah."
Well Cohen knows how to play that game. Personally I think the whole P320 trigger system into "find a frame" barbie gun is a F'ing joke. When we take that shit into combat and small hands soldier isn't able to pick up and fire big mitts dropped P320 because EVERYONE has a custom tailored side arm it is going to come back to haunt them.
But for now everyone is playing "Oh...new....shiny" and it's going to take a few disasters where people are trying to swap out that trigger group under fire before everyone discovers this is stupid.
I have also seen zero improvement in their formerly reliable guns. Still a lot of MIM parts which are apparently outsourced to places like India.
Trying hard to think of anyone else making something comparable to the once reliable SIG P series. FN, HK and anyone else who produces a DA/SA auto is pretty much all polymer stuff these days. Not that there is anything wrong with polymer frame autos, but I tend to shoot SIGs better and part of the reason is because it isn't feather light.
I watched a young, timid, early teens girl drop a P320 in the stall next to me at the indoor range on Saturday because she had a piece of hot brass hit her. Completely inexperienced shooter. I knew what she was shooting, so when she dropped it my heart went into my throat for a second. Dad proceeded to pick her up by both shoulders and toss her to the side and started screaming at her, before remembering that he was in a public place. Girl was hysterical, and of course we were all asking if she was okay. Public ranges, man.
Did anyone say/do anything to dad?
PracticalRifleman
06-09-20, 20:10
I have yet to see any SIG optics that impress me, they seem to be Bushnell quality at best. I've seen some real shit grade SIG optics, like Leapers quality junk that has no business being on a firearm.
I think SIG learned their lessons from the XM9 trials and despite having a cheaper handgun than Beretta, the requested military package was more expensive than Beretta so lesson learned and $40 cheaper wins the game. The SIG performed as well as the Beretta so it all came down to "save me a dollah."
Well Cohen knows how to play that game. Personally I think the whole P320 trigger system into "find a frame" barbie gun is a F'ing joke. When we take that shit into combat and small hands soldier isn't able to pick up and fire big mitts dropped P320 because EVERYONE has a custom tailored side arm it is going to come back to haunt them.
But for now everyone is playing "Oh...new....shiny" and it's going to take a few disasters where people are trying to swap out that trigger group under fire before everyone discovers this is stupid.
I have also seen zero improvement in their formerly reliable guns. Still a lot of MIM parts which are apparently outsourced to places like India.
Trying hard to think of anyone else making something comparable to the once reliable SIG P series. FN, HK and anyone else who produces a DA/SA auto is pretty much all polymer stuff these days. Not that there is anything wrong with polymer frame autos, but I tend to shoot SIGs better and part of the reason is because it isn't feather light.
You sound like a good candidate for a CZ75 or Beretta LTT.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PracticalRifleman
06-09-20, 20:28
Sig doesn't care if you buy their crappy products today they are busy milking the .gov cash cow, they definitely bought the right people in Big Army procurement.
As I understand it, they made next to nothing from the Army. They rely heavily on consumer purchases.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You sound like a good candidate for a CZ75 or Beretta LTT.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I still have a half dozen Made in W. Germany SIGs. CZs and Beretta's are ok, but I personally don't like their triggers and don't perform as well with them. I can work with a CZ or Beretta if I have to and I'm adequate with them, but for personal carry I try and carry what I work best with.
If there were no SIGs I'd default to my HK USP or a P7 if I had to go very discrete.
As I understand it, they made next to nothing from the Army. They rely heavily on consumer purchases.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But having the military adopt your firearm directly translates into civilian sales. It's what kept the 1911 alive well into the 1990s, it's the reason most people own a Beretta and it will be why most people buy a 320. Otherwise most people would buy XDs, Glocks or HKs. The Beretta is a nice handgun with amazing fit and finish, but I doubt they'd have sold half of what they've sold to the civie market if it didn't become the M9. At the time most LE was using S&W autos and mostly everyone changed over to Glock because Glock catered so hard to the LE market.
The other factor that sells guns besides "what does the Army use" is films. Die Hard and Lethal Weapon both generated a lot of sales for Beretta just like the Dirty Harry films had people buying S&W Model 29s.
PracticalRifleman
06-09-20, 20:49
But having the military adopt your firearm directly translates into civilian sales. It's what kept the 1911 alive well into the 1990s, it's the reason most people own a Beretta and it will be why most people buy a 320. Otherwise most people would buy XDs, Glocks or HKs. The Beretta is a nice handgun with amazing fit and finish, but I doubt they'd have sold half of what they've sold to the civie market if it didn't become the M9. At the time most LE was using S&W autos and mostly everyone changed over to Glock because Glock catered so hard to the LE market.
The other factor that sells guns besides "what does the Army use" is films. Die Hard and Lethal Weapon both generated a lot of sales for Beretta just like the Dirty Harry films had people buying S&W Model 29s.
You’re not wrong. I was simply pointing out the Army contract isn’t making them money, but it will drift civilian sales. I know several guys that bought them because of the contract.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You’re not wrong. I was simply pointing out the Army contract isn’t making them money, but it will drift civilian sales. I know several guys that bought them because of the contract.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agreed. You have to think of the Army contract as advertising. Nobody knew they wanted / needed an MP5 until the SAS hit Princess Gate in 1980. Then suddenly EVERYONE absolutely needed an MP5, Uzi's quickly became antiquated relics and every SWAT team in the world was ready to dump those M16A1s in favor of the new uber gun.
Had we been successful with Eagle Claw, Delta HBars would have ruled the day for 20 years.
WickedWillis
06-10-20, 15:12
Did anyone say/do anything to dad?
No. He was pretty snappy towards everyone that asked if she was okay. Range was slammed that day and I only saw one RO in the 3+hours I was there. I saw the girl in the lobby about an hour after the incident and personally asked her if she was okay, and she just said "yeah, I guess so".
They did not speak at all when he got out of the range to pay and leave. I'm sure it's an awesome relationship they have. My view of it, she didn't want to be there in the first place at all, he had to drag her to do anything he wanted her to. She got super excited and grinny when she made a bullseye hit with his Sig before the whole incident.
I had a bunch of observing time because I was helping my coworker rent, shoot and buy her first handgun.
(Sorry) Back on topic
No. He was pretty snappy towards everyone that asked if she was okay. Range was slammed that day and I only saw one RO in the 3+hours I was there. I saw the girl in the lobby about an hour after the incident and personally asked her if she was okay, and she just said "yeah, I guess so".
They did not speak at all when he got out of the range to pay and leave. I'm sure it's an awesome relationship they have. My view of it, she didn't want to be there in the first place at all, he had to drag her to do anything he wanted her to. She got super excited and grinny when she made a bullseye hit with his Sig before the whole incident.
I had a bunch of observing time because I was helping my coworker rent, shoot and buy her first handgun.
(Sorry) Back on topic
Yes, from what you described life at home must be sweeeeet.
I have to remind myself from time to time that unless it is something the parents can be arrested for, anything you say to dad, is likely to result in an over reaction on dad's part, or else make it worse for the kiddo later.
Yes, from what you described life at home must be sweeeeet.
I have to remind myself from time to time that unless it is something the parents can be arrested for, anything you say to dad, is likely to result in an over reaction on dad's part, or else make it worse for the kiddo later.
Usually. Really hard for me to sit on my hands and shut the F up sometimes, but hard experience has taught me that about the only thing I might accomplish is to make it worse.
And having grown up in the stupid capitol of the world, South Florida, every time I see kids brought to the range I cringe a little bit. I've seen more anti gunners created by dipshit parents teaching their kids "about guns" than by parents who are actually anti gun.
No. He was pretty snappy towards everyone that asked if she was okay. Range was slammed that day and I only saw one RO in the 3+hours I was there. I saw the girl in the lobby about an hour after the incident and personally asked her if she was okay, and she just said "yeah, I guess so".
They did not speak at all when he got out of the range to pay and leave. I'm sure it's an awesome relationship they have. My view of it, she didn't want to be there in the first place at all, he had to drag her to do anything he wanted her to. She got super excited and grinny when she made a bullseye hit with his Sig before the whole incident.
I had a bunch of observing time because I was helping my coworker rent, shoot and buy her first handgun.
(Sorry) Back on topic
I don't go to public ranges.
I can barely tolerate being at my private gun club.
I also don't take anyone to the range anymore. Too much drama and bullshit.
WickedWillis
06-11-20, 12:54
I don't go to public ranges.
I can barely tolerate being at my private gun club.
I also don't take anyone to the range anymore. Too much drama and bullshit.
My truck is getting repaired, so I can't make it in my GF's car to my usual range. Plus co-worker wanted to rent a few guns other than my Glocks and HK I brought for her. I usually avoid public ranges too.
I'm a slut for German built SIGs, might have a few.
SIG was CTD right before Cohen showed up, he saved the company but ruined the brand.
Cohen is/was on the hook for violating German export laws, some guns showed up somewhere they shouldn't have been.
Diamond plate SIGs were the most dumb of all.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.