View Full Version : Advice Wanted: Closet Conservative
Setting boundaries within friendships and/or family are just as important as within personal relationships.
So
Draw a line in the sand and be like look, this shit pisses me off for x1000 reasons and y’all need to be respectful of my personal views, beliefs, etc.
If they’re not or can’t do that then cut them off. Their friendship wasn’t genuine to begin with.
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Business_Casual
06-08-20, 05:37
How is that different from Virginia?
I do the seed thing, I love to see cognitive dissonance.
Dont do it. There is no way I could live like that, watching everything I said, what I wore, what I ate....it would be like a prison but one I had volunteered for. I'd probably kill myself after reflecting on it every day....
SomeOtherGuy
06-08-20, 09:01
Six months ago I would try to offer some ideas for getting by. At this point I don't think it's possible - look at the extreme political positions being taken by rioters and then adopted by elected officials in NY and other all-left locales. Look at the doxxing and effective un-personing of people for the slightest things. I don't think you can survive in that environment as a "closet conservative" - your time is limited and it will be very unpleasant when you're attacked in the near future.
Find a way out of your planned move back to NY.
Living in NYC for over a decade, I tried at first to just be in the closet but found that I am incapable of listening to nonsense in person when it's being preached to me as if it's as factual as the sun in the sky. I have lost contact with some I considered friends over it but I'm at peace with it. It's just not in me to be fake about stuff my principles are based upon; with that being said though, my family is very much on my side of the fence so I can't empathize. I can tell you that my folks are very good at this and keep their circle of friends by not talking politics at all.
I did, and do, try very hard to not put someone down for their opinion but find the conservative points to be extremely easy to defend so putting the ball in someone else's court can actually be an eye opener for some leftists. It's rare but occasionally, having to think it through themselves and not having it spelled out to them by CNN can be a real "ah ha" moment. Example I have used is something like, "I'm not sold on open borders being a good idea; can you give me some examples of where it's been beneficial, which countries have flourished while allowing everyone to come in unchecked." Or how about addressing that not a single country that employs socialism across the board has been able to succeed? Difficult part is being able to put it to your audience so it comes across as genuine inquisitiveness and not as confrontational.
The_War_Wagon
06-08-20, 09:53
[QUOTE=Mozart;2850926]I need some advice from you fine sage fellas.
It’s a very long back-story that I don’t care to delve into, but I’m going to be moving back to New York State...QUOTE]
DON'T.
Live across the border in PA or VT, and commute.
I hafta go to Buffalo a few times a year on business. The best feeling in the world, is getting the hell OUTTA there, and back to PA!
Unfold your wings and fly baby bird.
But seriously, don't expect others to be as accepting of your views as you are of theirs. Unfortunately, we live in a time where people are so intrinsically tied to their political and personal beliefs that it has become dogma in their eyes.
It's been mentioned here a couple of times but if you come out and you wanna keep the peace, you'll find yourself on your heels a lot doing deconfliction to appease your friends. Not gonna lie, that shit gets exhausting my man and bridges will get burned.
I'll leave you with this: I dated a chick that was extremely progressive but lacked serious real world experience and had no idea how things really were. She relayed to me a story about her co-worker, who after the election and learning that her BIL voted for DJT, were in the process of cutting ties and removing child guardianship from said BIL. That shocked me so much that I relayed that story to the president of my company at the time and he saw it as perfectly reasonable.
These are the kind of people you'll deal with and logic does not apply to zealots.
Best of luck.
I need some advice from you fine sage fellas.
It’s a very long back-story that I don’t care to delve into, but I’m going to be moving back to New York State. Terrible decision, particularly with the way things are headed.
All my life-long friends back in NY are varying degrees of left. We get along fine because I never challenge their beliefs. I never try to change their minds, only maybe plant a small seed for them to consider on their own time. But they constantly text me news articles and blather on and on with social media with their shitty received opinions.
It’s not just my close friends; most of my family is evangelical left. They believe in some wildly inaccurate things, which I fight back the urge to correct them on. And ALL, and I mean ALL, of the music I like is written by ignorant bloviating leftists. I started following most of my go-to bands and musicians on social media to keep track of their new releases and tours and such, and it’s a non-stop deluge of political bullshit.
So I feel pretty isolated. These people are willing to be friends with me, but they also seem to want to “bring me around” to their thinking. I say “their thinking”, but it’s all Received Opinion. They don’t question, they nod their heads at the idiot box every night. I don’t respect them in a way, I feel like they’re ignorant and/or close-minded by choice. At the same time, nor do I feel like trying to red pill them.
What do you do when everyone around you is deluded?
But the thought of having nobody in your life is awful. Just keep your mouth shut and enjoy your friends and family? Is it a matter of core philosophy and beliefs being in conflict? Or is it just dismissible as political nonsense? I’d like to think the latter, good friendships are hard to come by. But I don’t believe some of the friendships would survive if I were to “come out of the closet” as a center-right/ libertarian. All would have a negative opinion of me, and a few would probably call me a fascist racist and sever ties.
Stay in the closet for peace?
Ah, the superficially of life. Sometimes life can be very lonely. I choose to be honest and alone most of the time. I don't talk to my wife about important things of the heart anymore and I don't see my children pretty much ever. I do talk to God a lot. If you choose to be around these people I wouldn't put you down, loneliness sucks.
George Washington once said: "It's better to be alone than in bad company".
That is sage advice that has carried me well through many stages in life.
Superficial connections are better than total isolation, but I'd be seeking out people who shared my values and shift my time and energy to them over time. If your "friends" wonder why you're spending less and less time on them, explain how mentally taxing they can be always pushing politics.
I usually enjoy sparring with people who have different viewpoints and sometimes I can come to a place where I empathize with their position even when I don't agree with it. That has been severely strained during these troubled times, to the point I've tuned out and stepped away. It can get toxic after a point and degrade the quality of your life. Even among like minded people, the constant barrage of political topics can wear thin.
My blood pressure is SO much lower when I'm fishing on my boat. The fish never talk politics, and that's pretty damned nice.
BuzzinSATX
06-08-20, 13:18
Good luck in your move.
If your friends and family won’t let you speak your views, ask them why you should listen to theirs. It’s about mutual respect...if you give it and don’t get it, that is a tough thing to put up with.
You want fellowship and companionship, find a good church or charity group and get involved. It’s not about having to be religious. Low threat Christian groups are generally pretty easy to find if you ask. If they tell you to believe or leave, I’d leave and find another. That’s not how it works.
If you are a veteran, consider joining your local American Legion or other military type organization. They are about service and fellowship.
Bottom line, friends you’ll make in the right group won’t judge you by your opinions, if respectful.
At least that is my experience...
Good luck.
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Avoiding politics at Thanksgiving or being the grey man at work can be prudent, what you describe seems soul crushing.
Thanks for the responses.
I think the best idea is to set up boundaries. Explain that I do not want politics to infect every single moment and aspect of my life, and when we talk or hang out, I’d like that to be a fun activity of decompression and de-stress. So therefore, please try to keep politics off the table. “So you’re a stubborn, close-minded sycophant?” they could respond. To which I would explain, no, not at all. I’m very reasonable and question everything I read and see, and am on constant guard against received opinions. I simply want a break from all the talk of societal / cultural disfunction. I know things are jacked up. Let’s laugh instead. We both need to.
[QUOTE=Mozart;2850926]I need some advice from you fine sage fellas.
It’s a very long back-story that I don’t care to delve into, but I’m going to be moving back to New York State...QUOTE]
DON'T.
Live across the border in PA or VT, and commute.
I hafta go to Buffalo a few times a year on business. The best feeling in the world, is getting the hell OUTTA there, and back to PA!
Had to laugh as this reminded me of Mark Bowden (?) when he was doing research to write "Blackhawk Down" and at the State Department was asking for advice about going to Somalia and the guy's advice was "don't go"...
[QUOTE=The_War_Wagon;2851018]
Had to laugh as this reminded me of Mark Bowden (?) when he was doing research to write "Blackhawk Down" and at the State Department was asking for advice about going to Somalia and the guy's advice was "don't go"...
The parallels are quite striking actually.....
Straight Shooter
06-08-20, 15:54
I just dont know how people on total opposite sides of politics and/or religion and other important things could really be close friends.
Im talking real, true friends. HOW could you be around someone and have lifes most important issues be "off limits" to talk about? I myself- not only do not care to be around or hear anyone, family or "friend", spouting off crap I know to be untrue..if I want that I can literally cut on ANY news channel. Bro- your gonna get up there and be MISERABLE. I wouldnt do it. MAKE...NEW..FRIENDS.
MY best friend is Jesus Christ. Find others who feel the same and VOILA!... a great start to new friends.
NO WAY ill be around people who think & believe opposite of me. Acquaintances...associates..."some guy/girl I know"..yeah, maybe.
But close friend? Nah.
I just dont know how people on total opposite sides of politics and/or religion and other important things could really be close friends.
Im talking real, true friends. HOW could you be around someone and have lifes most important issues be "off limits" to talk about? I myself- not only do not care to be around or hear anyone, family or "friend", spouting off crap I know to be untrue..if I want that I can literally cut on ANY news channel. Bro- your gonna get up there and be MISERABLE. I wouldnt do it. MAKE...NEW..FRIENDS.
MY best friend is Jesus Christ. Find others who feel the same and VOILA!... a great start to new friends.
NO WAY ill be around people who think & believe opposite of me. Acquaintances...associates..."some guy/girl I know"..yeah, maybe.
But close friend? Nah.
I’ve known these people since 3rd grade and 9th grade. I’m 35.
That’s sad to hear, “no way I’ll be around people that think and believe opposite of me”
You can learn something from everyone. We each had our own set of eyes and ears, taking in the experiences. No two are alike. So someone else will always be able to explain their experiences to you and teach you something you didn’t know.
What you said only becomes true for me once there’s an actual civil war and dissolution of the union.
I need some advice from you fine sage fellas.
It’s a very long back-story that I don’t care to delve into, but I’m going to be moving back to New York State. Terrible decision, particularly with the way things are headed.
All my life-long friends back in NY are varying degrees of left. We get along fine because I never challenge their beliefs. I never try to change their minds, only maybe plant a small seed for them to consider on their own time. But they constantly text me news articles and blather on and on with social media with their shitty received opinions.
It’s not just my close friends; most of my family is evangelical left. They believe in some wildly inaccurate things, which I fight back the urge to correct them on. And ALL, and I mean ALL, of the music I like is written by ignorant bloviating leftists. I started following most of my go-to bands and musicians on social media to keep track of their new releases and tours and such, and it’s a non-stop deluge of political bullshit.
So I feel pretty isolated. These people are willing to be friends with me, but they also seem to want to “bring me around” to their thinking. I say “their thinking”, but it’s all Received Opinion. They don’t question, they nod their heads at the idiot box every night. I don’t respect them in a way, I feel like they’re ignorant and/or close-minded by choice. At the same time, nor do I feel like trying to red pill them.
What do you do when everyone around you is deluded?
But the thought of having nobody in your life is awful. Just keep your mouth shut and enjoy your friends and family? Is it a matter of core philosophy and beliefs being in conflict? Or is it just dismissible as political nonsense? I’d like to think the latter, good friendships are hard to come by. But I don’t believe some of the friendships would survive if I were to “come out of the closet” as a center-right/ libertarian. All would have a negative opinion of me, and a few would probably call me a fascist racist and sever ties.
Stay in the closet for peace?
Everyone is different and ymmv, but imo, You gotta come out or it will eat you up.
I have some friends( not super close, but still friends), who I disagree with. We go back and forth, agree to disagree, and move on to something we have in common.
If they dont like you for who you are, youre living a Fairytail, and wasting all the time you spend with them. You have to know your personal value, irrespective of what they think/say. If they cant have a normal discussion like grown-ups, you need to find better people to surround yourself with.
Again, ymmv- some people need human interaction... i never did so take it fwiw.
As for the civil war comment- if you faced these people during one of the current riots and knew where you stood, would they fight for you, of join the crowd in tearing you up?
Straight Shooter
06-08-20, 16:57
I’ve known these people since 3rd grade and 9th grade. I’m 35.
That’s sad to hear, “no way I’ll be around people that think and believe opposite of me”
You can learn something from everyone. We each had our own set of eyes and ears, taking in the experiences. No two are alike. So someone else will always be able to explain their experiences to you and teach you something you didn’t know.
What you said only becomes true for me once there’s an actual civil war and dissolution of the union.
Im against abortion, for example. Im pro-gun for example. HOW could I associate with people who believe in murdering babies? Who believe in partial birth, who think its ok to sell baby body parts?
HOW could I associate with people who want to dis-arm me? Who think IM evil for owning weapons for fun, sport & SD? HOW can you "avoid" these conversations with people who are your "friends"?
Know what? My FRIENDS and I have NO subject we have to avoid to remain friends.
Ive HEARD the others sides arguments for five decades now. Dont need to keep hearing or "learn" anything else from them.
Go and go up into that shithole place & stay from now on. Glad its you & not me.
Business_Casual
06-08-20, 17:01
Im against abortion, for example. Im pro-gun for example. HOW could I associate with people who believe in murdering babies? Who believe in partial birth, who think its ok to sell baby body parts?
HOW could I associate with people who want to dis-arm me? Who think IM evil for owning weapons for fun, sport & SD? HOW can you "avoid" these conversations with people who are your "friends"?
Know what? My FRIENDS and I have NO subject we have to avoid to remain friends.
Ive HEARD the others sides arguments for five decades now. Dont need to keep hearing or "learn" anything else from them.
Go and go up into that shithole place & stay from now on. Glad its you & not me.
And here we have an example of how polarized and weaponized opinions have been made. It’s a mirror image.
Im against abortion, for example. Im pro-gun for example. HOW could I associate with people who believe in murdering babies? Who believe in partial birth, who think its ok to sell baby body parts?
HOW could I associate with people who want to dis-arm me? Who think IM evil for owning weapons for fun, sport & SD? HOW can you "avoid" these conversations with people who are your "friends"?
Know what? My FRIENDS and I have NO subject we have to avoid to remain friends.
Ive HEARD the others sides arguments for five decades now. Dont need to keep hearing or "learn" anything else from them.
Go and go up into that shithole place & stay from now on. Glad its you & not me.
You will probably find that most people don’t believe in murdering babies. That is, for the most part, a straw man argument created by the pro-life side. What they really believe is that a human should have control over their body. In that regard, they aren’t that dissimilar from the anti-forced-vaccination crowd, or the drug legalization crowd: “I will choose what happens to my body.“ I mean, that to me even sounds just like the 2A self-defense crowd. I will choose what happens to my body. There is common ground there if you boil the stances down to their very core mission statement.
Anyway, getting off track. Thank you for providing input. I really think, for me, a mixture of finding new friends that share like-minds, and keep lifelong friends that understand we should keep it lighthearted and avoid worldview conversations, is my best way forward. The trouble may be in finding like-minded people up there.
Averageman
06-08-20, 18:46
I highly recommend drinking heavily and working hard, it doesn't work for everyone, but it has been good to me.
You will probably find that most people don’t believe in murdering babies. That is, for the most part, a straw man argument created by the pro-life side. What they really believe is that a human should have control over their body. In that regard, they aren’t that dissimilar from the anti-forced-vaccination crowd, or the drug legalization crowd: “I will choose what happens to my body.“ I mean, that to me even sounds just like the 2A self-defense crowd. I will choose what happens to my body. There is common ground there if you boil the stances down to their very core mission statement.
Anyway, getting off track. Thank you for providing input. I really think, for me, a mixture of finding new friends that share like-minds, and keep lifelong friends that understand we should keep it lighthearted and avoid worldview conversations, is my best way forward. The trouble may be in finding like-minded people up there.
So instead of driving the conversation into baby killer vs rights-taker... maybe try to come to common acceptance areas that you both find tolorable... maybe when to define life, or stop charging drunks for 2 deaths when they kill a pregnant woman.
(The last part is tounge-in cheek, an example I use to push people in a more pro life direction from their talking points).
Mozart,
You are confronting the behavior of a different tribe than the one you wish to belong to. Unless you have influence over the powers that made them think the way they do (media, education, and government), you won't change their minds without extricating them from their tribe and surrounding them with yours, one at a time. And it takes years.
They will never accept you for who and what you are. They will always feel uncomfortable around you until you are more like them. That's just how we humans work. No way around it.
Adrenaline_6
06-08-20, 19:50
I treat the left thinking, whether it be family or friends the same way I treat and tell newly married guys to treat their wives.
I give an analogy that you are the fish and they are the fishers. They caught you and have set the drag. How tight that drag is individual and different for different "fishermen" but do not think it is not set.
If they do not approve of you doing something or being/acting a certain way and you are willing to give that something up, then say nothing, accept it, and don't bitch about it when the day comes that you are expected not to do that/act that way any longer.
If you are not willing to give up that something or give up acting/being a certain way. You fight for every inch...all the time...because every inch you give up will most certainly be reeled in and getting it back will be a lot harder than if you had fought for it from the get go. Every hill is worth dying on if that hill means something to you. Your choice.
The far left functions the same way.
BoringGuy45
06-08-20, 20:07
I'm in the midst of earning my Master's in Social Work. Now, believe it or not, my professors and classmates are a LOT less volatile than one may think, and they've actually been very welcoming of me, even knowing my background in police/corrections. Most of them honestly want to learn from me what law enforcement is really like, and all have been accepting of my honest answers (I tell them the good and the bad). That being said, they are mostly hyper leftist. I'm on good terms with them by remaining silent in areas where I know we will never agree. Most don't know that I hold mostly conservative views; there's no point in arguing, so I'll save myself the grief. I find common ground with them on the areas where I am more moderate to liberal (such as my hatred for big pharma and health insurance companies). I just need my degree so I can apply for the jobs I want.
telecustom
06-08-20, 20:09
I treat the left thinking, whether it be family or friends the same way I treat and tell newly married guys to treat their wives.
I give an analogy that you are the fish and they are the fishers. They caught you and have set the drag. How tight that drag is individual and different for different "fishermen" but do not think it is not set.
If they do not approve of you doing something or being/acting a certain way and you are willing to give that something up, then say nothing, accept it, and don't bitch about it when the day comes that you are expected not to do that/act that way any longer.
If you are not willing to give up that something or give up acting/being a certain way. You fight for every inch...all the time...because every inch you give up will most certainly be reeled in and getting it back will be a lot harder than if you had fought for it from the get go. Every hill is worth dying on if that hill means something to you. Your choice.
The far left functions the same way.
That was perfect advice!
Straight Shooter
06-08-20, 20:27
I'm in the midst of earning my Master's in Social Work. Now, believe it or not, my professors and classmates are a LOT less volatile than one may think, and they've actually been very welcoming of me, even knowing my background in police/corrections. Most of them honestly want to learn from me what law enforcement is really like, and all have been accepting of my honest answers (I tell them the good and the bad). That being said, they are mostly hyper leftist. I'm on good terms with them by remaining silent in areas where I know we will never agree. Most don't know that I hold mostly conservative views; there's no point in arguing, so I'll save myself the grief. I find common ground with them on the areas where I am more moderate to liberal (such as my hatred for big pharma and health insurance companies). I just need my degree so I can apply for the jobs I want.
So, outside of doing what you must to earn your degree, which I agree, would you bring them into your personal inner circle, as friends & confidantes, if you STILL had to "remain silent" & not "argue"? I cannot see that as being friends. NO ONE that knows me would be shocked that I carried or used a gun in self defense, they'd be shocked if I didnt,actually.
I used two examples of my beliefs to make a point-not to turn this into a thread about abortion,which Ill never condone, but you saying its a "straw man argument" and "most people dont believe in murdering babies"...YES, THEY DO. About half of the country, or more do.
So, right there, I wouldnt/couldnt bring someone in as a close friend, certainly someone I thought I needed to move back to the wasteland called New York.
Adrenaline 6 is 100% correct- they day you need help, or try to defend yourself, and they are shocked/angered/pissed over the fact that you own a gun and plan to use it, and they narc you out for it, dont act all surprised. This is EXACTLY whats happened with Red Flag laws, so dont poo poo it out of hand.
I guess my definition of friend is much different than yours or others here. Almost ALL of my circle have been in my life well over 40 years. Some over 45. We've been thru deaths, births, divorces, marriages, ups, downs, lefts & rights. There is NOTHING I dont know about them or their feelings about any subject, and they feel the same about me. Would I move somewhere to get back to these people? In a heartbeat.
And without ANY doubt, I know how they will be come hell or high water- and they know what Ill do too. An we dont have to avoid anything, and no one has to remain silent about jack shit.
Straight Shooter
06-08-20, 20:33
And here we have an example of how polarized and weaponized opinions have been made. It’s a mirror image.
So,just asking as I exit to go to work...you have people you call friends who believe different than your core beliefs?
And, Im not understanding the weaponized aspect of your comment, if could explain that Id appreciate it.
So, outside of doing what you must to earn your degree, which I agree, would you bring them into your personal inner circle, as friends & confidantes, if you STILL had to "remain silent" & not "argue"? I cannot see that as being friends. NO ONE that knows me would be shocked that I carried or used a gun in self defense, they'd be shocked if I didnt,actually.
I used two examples of my beliefs to make a point-not to turn this into a thread about abortion,which Ill never condone, but you saying its a "straw man argument" and "most people dont believe in murdering babies"...YES, THEY DO. About half of the country, or more do.
So, right there, I wouldnt/couldnt bring someone in as a close friend, certainly someone I thought I needed to move back to the wasteland called New York.
Adrenaline 6 is 100% correct- they day you need help, or try to defend yourself, and they are shocked/angered/pissed over the fact that you own a gun and plan to use it, and they narc you out for it, dont act all surprised. This is EXACTLY whats happened with Red Flag laws, so dont poo poo it out of hand.
I guess my definition of friend is much different than yours or others here. Almost ALL of my circle have been in my life well over 40 years. Some over 45. We've been thru deaths, births, divorces, marriages, ups, downs, lefts & rights. There is NOTHING I dont know about them or their feelings about any subject, and they feel the same about me. Would I move somewhere to get back to these people? In a heartbeat.
And without ANY doubt, I know how they will be come hell or high water- and they know what Ill do too. An we dont have to avoid anything, and no one has to remain silent about jack shit.
I'm pretty careful about who I call friend also, I got this concept from a Jewish man who only called some guys his friends once and that's after talking to thousands.
Just between me and you, the sad part is that half the church in American thinks abortion is ok.
m1a_scoutguy
06-08-20, 20:49
I need some advice from you fine sage fellas.
It’s a very long back-story that I don’t care to delve into, but I’m going to be moving back to New York State. Terrible decision, particularly with the way things are headed.
All my life-long friends back in NY are varying degrees of left. We get along fine because I never challenge their beliefs. I never try to change their minds, only maybe plant a small seed for them to consider on their own time. But they constantly text me news articles and blather on and on with social media with their shitty received opinions.
It’s not just my close friends; most of my family is evangelical left. They believe in some wildly inaccurate things, which I fight back the urge to correct them on. And ALL, and I mean ALL, of the music I like is written by ignorant bloviating leftists. I started following most of my go-to bands and musicians on social media to keep track of their new releases and tours and such, and it’s a non-stop deluge of political bullshit.
So I feel pretty isolated. These people are willing to be friends with me, but they also seem to want to “bring me around” to their thinking. I say “their thinking”, but it’s all Received Opinion. They don’t question, they nod their heads at the idiot box every night. I don’t respect them in a way, I feel like they’re ignorant and/or close-minded by choice. At the same time, nor do I feel like trying to red pill them.
What do you do when everyone around you is deluded?
But the thought of having nobody in your life is awful. Just keep your mouth shut and enjoy your friends and family? Is it a matter of core philosophy and beliefs being in conflict? Or is it just dismissible as political nonsense? I’d like to think the latter, good friendships are hard to come by. But I don’t believe some of the friendships would survive if I were to “come out of the closet” as a center-right/ libertarian. All would have a negative opinion of me, and a few would probably call me a fascist racist and sever ties.
Stay in the closet for peace?
You say NYS,,sooo does that mean the City or someplace else ? Sounds like your heading straight into the hubs of hell,,LOL Anyways I'm Upstate/Central NY and its reasonable up this way. I'm an Old fart but if your within an hour or so I'll be your range bud and help ya get through the shit. There is no shortage of dumb-asss's up this way but more good than bad for sure. I have plenty of Family that is not in-tune but plenty that are,for the ones that aren't I just keep quiet "unless" they say something stupid and then I quietly hit back,LOL Pic your battles,keep to yourself and don't let it get ya down,lifes to short to let politics screw up your everyday life. Let me know where your gonna settle,maybe I can help,LOL
I only have two friends. Everyone else I consider just people im on friendly terms with. I'm probably the most conservative of the 3 but they're not exactly far left either. Not all of us believe in religion or look at social issues the same way or finance. And we've had debates. But one thing we all understand is that it a difference of opinion isnt personal. It's not an attack on. We enjoy each other's company and our debates.
As for family......blood is thicker than everything. Most of my family is more or less conservative but I do have one ultra liberal relative. We don't agree on anything but at family get togethers were friendly to each other and at the end of the day family is family. If she called and asked for help I'd be there and wouldn't think twice.
I actually enjoy being alone. I enjoy friends and family too but as something that just breaks up the week to week. Otherwise I prefer just my dog and I.
Business_Casual
06-08-20, 21:03
So,just asking as I exit to go to work...you have people you call friends who believe different than your core beliefs?
And, Im not understanding the weaponized aspect of your comment, if could explain that Id appreciate it.
Yes. I have friends that have a range of opinions and I try to red pill them from any topic I can - Glock to the Latin Mass. You all have no idea how wrong you are... (just a joke people)
People have opinions man, shake the dust from your feet and move on.
Ideas are weapons used by the media - how else do you explain stupid virtue signals such as happens on social media?
BoringGuy45
06-08-20, 21:07
So, outside of doing what you must to earn your degree, which I agree, would you bring them into your personal inner circle, as friends & confidantes, if you STILL had to "remain silent" & not "argue"? I cannot see that as being friends. NO ONE that knows me would be shocked that I carried or used a gun in self defense, they'd be shocked if I didnt,actually.
No, there are very few that I would bring into my inner circle. One of my classmates, who deduced my views, "came out" to me...as a fellow moderate/conservative who was biting his tongue. Another woman in my class, who is left of center, I believe holds some shared views with me, particularly regarding abortion. Other than that, I likely would not invest in any deep friendships with any of my other classmates; I'll stick to just being cordial in class.
That said, most of my closest friends share my views. My best friend, with whom I went through the police academy and worked alongside as a correctional officer, is a pro-life, pro-gun, unapologetic conservative, as is his wife. It's refreshing to be able to say whatever the hell I want around them and my other like minded friends.
My family...that's another story. My wife and my parents and I are all on the same page, and my in-laws are super conservative (more so than my wife and I). But my brothers are both very liberal (though my middle brother is slowly drifting to the center a little bit), as is everyone on my dad's side of the family, and my wife's brother and sister-in-law.
Diamondback
06-08-20, 23:11
I'll just say, if someone can't quit talking politics and set the differences aside long enough to break bread and share a meal, THEY'RE the problem.
I do all the cooking for my folks's holiday dinners when we don't cheat with premade from Denny's or Black Bear, and since *I* run the kitchen I maintain a strictly-enforced rule: "MY dinner table is a No Politics Zone and there will be NO 'holiday hostage-taking' here, if you don't like it No Food For You and you know where the door is." Doesn't matter if the violator's positions agree with mine or not, holiday meals are "forced proximity" and I won't stand for MY food being used to hold a captive audience for haranguing. By all means go for it either before or after Mess when people can walk away, but not during.
Straight Shooter
06-09-20, 00:24
I'll just say, if someone can't quit talking politics and set the differences aside long enough to break bread and share a meal, THEY'RE the problem.
I do all the cooking for my folks's holiday dinners when we don't cheat with premade from Denny's or Black Bear, and since *I* run the kitchen I maintain a strictly-enforced rule: "MY dinner table is a No Politics Zone and there will be NO 'holiday hostage-taking' here, if you don't like it No Food For You and you know where the door is." Doesn't matter if the violator's positions agree with mine or not, holiday meals are "forced proximity" and I won't stand for MY food being used to hold a captive audience for haranguing. By all means go for it either before or after Mess when people can walk away, but not during.
Brother, you are talking about two different things..being civil, cordial, friendly, helpful, kind, loving..HUMAN...to people..which is what Im COMMANDED to do by my Lord & Savior Christ Jesus..VS...having people in my personal close circle that I TRUST, I KNOW how & what theyll do in most any situation, I can count on them, and them me, and we have shared core beliefs, values, loves, likes & passions.
When I go out into this world armed..everyday...I am FULLY ready to defend not only myself, but EVERYONE AROUND ME. I wont stop & ask political or religious beliefs, Im just gonna stop whatever the threat is..OR DIE TRYING.
I can, will, have & do break bread with so many various folks. Not a problem. The OP was talking about "friends" specifically, and so am I.
And, Ive never agreed & never will, with this insanity.."well, theyre family". BULLSHIT. Ole Unle Joe the child molester, he's family, Im supposed to act like he aint a sick SOB? Aunt Susy is a dope addled bull dyke who loves to talk about abortion like its going to Walmart for candy..Im supposed to love her? HELL NO. Not happening.
Ive got family I do not care about at all, other than just as humans, I feel no loyalty to them, and they have none to me.
Never understood that "they're family" crap.
[QUOTE=rocsteady;2851136]
The parallels are quite striking actually.....
Yea, much of Buffalo is sh*thole
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't hide. Be yourself. Let people be themselves and if they don't want to be acquaintances or friends, so be it.
I feel Conservatives are doing harm to themselves by hiding and being the grey man. That allows Liberals to control not only the message, but they literally control what you say and when you say it, they control who you are.
There is no reason to bash people over the head with your opinions- even though that is the liberal way currently, but you can still voice your opinions and be heard. Use logic, and a bit of tactical emotion mixed in.
In professional settings, politics and religion should not be discussed and just shut that shit down and steer it back to business.
We are kind of entering/in a dark ages of sorts. Where we hide ourselves out of fear of uncomfortable situations or losing interactions with people around us.
Be yourself, speak your opinions and let people decide who they are and react to you how they wish.
If we don't do that then we are just allowing our self expression to be destroyed, and being complicit in the act. That's a dangerous thing.
Do. Not. Move. To. NY. You know it’s a terrible place for freedom-loving libertarian gun owners. 10 round mags. May issue concealed carry with all sorts of draconian restrictions. No unneutered semiauto rifles, no title-2. F$$$$$$$$$$$$ck that place.
With regard to flying your conservative flag high or staying closeted, fly it high brother. I have lots of ultra liberal friends and family. I don’t let politics affect my relationships, but I also make my views known calmly and rationally.
I just dont know how people on total opposite sides of politics and/or religion and other important things could really be close friends.
Im talking real, true friends. HOW could you be around someone and have lifes most important issues be "off limits" to talk about? I myself- not only do not care to be around or hear anyone, family or "friend", spouting off crap I know to be untrue..if I want that I can literally cut on ANY news channel. Bro- your gonna get up there and be MISERABLE. I wouldnt do it. MAKE...NEW..FRIENDS.
MY best friend is Jesus Christ. Find others who feel the same and VOILA!... a great start to new friends.
NO WAY ill be around people who think & believe opposite of me. Acquaintances...associates..."some guy/girl I know"..yeah, maybe.
But close friend? Nah.
That’s really silly. I have very good friends on both sides of the political spectrum. Having close friends with whom you can calmly and respectfully discuss opposing viewpoints allows you to hone your own views.
I can't see how people with diametrically opposing views can be friends. Now, the term "friend" means different things to different people, so I think that needs to be defined first..... I have maybe 4-5 friends. The "friend test" to me is very simple. If I call you at 3 AM and say, "Bring a shovel" do you hesitate, ask questions, discuss it with your spouse....Or do you get in the car and get to my house as quickly as you can? Everyone else is some varying level of acquaintance.
My entire life is built around a moral and ethical framework, a particular worldview. It affects everything about me from my family, my career, where I live, what I eat, where I vacation, what clothes I wear- and the people I choose to associate with. I can tolerate, out of simple courtesy and human decency, people who don't share my views.
However, I have no desire whatsoever to associate with them and while I won't go out of my way to harm them, nor will I go out of my way to assist them. Not my tribe. To the extent that they actively oppose me, I will do the same at every opportunity.
Straight Shooter
06-09-20, 09:11
That’s really silly. I have very good friends on both sides of the political spectrum. Having close friends with whom you can calmly and respectfully discuss opposing viewpoints allows you to hone your own views.
Then Im one really silly fvcker then.
Ive heard the libtarded side for over well over 40 years. I dont need nor want to hear it anymore, especially when Im in "downtime" with my friends. And here the past three years, and especially THIS year, the way theyve acted, and the utter shit they are doing and wanting?
THE HELL Ill listen to it. YOU listen to it. I aint. MY views are razor sharp. No "honing" needed.
Straight Shooter
06-09-20, 09:15
I can't see how people with diametrically opposing views can be friends. Now, the term "friend" means different things to different people, so I think that needs to be defined first..... I have maybe 4-5 friends. The "friend test" to me is very simple. If I call you at 3 AM and say, "Bring a shovel" do you hesitate, ask questions, discuss it with your spouse....Or do you get in the car and get to my house as quickly as you can? Everyone else is some varying level of acquaintance.
My entire life is built around a moral and ethical framework, a particular worldview. It affects everything about me from my family, my career, where I live, what I eat, where I vacation, what clothes I wear- and the people I choose to associate with. I can tolerate, out of simple courtesy and human decency, people who don't share my views.
However, I have no desire whatsoever to associate with them and while I won't go out of my way to harm them, nor will I go out of my way to assist them. Not my tribe. To the extent that they actively oppose me, I will do the same at every opportunity.
Man, would WE get along.
Man, would WE get along.
I'm betting so....
Adrenaline_6
06-09-20, 10:22
I can't see how people with diametrically opposing views can be friends. Now, the term "friend" means different things to different people, so I think that needs to be defined first..... I have maybe 4-5 friends. The "friend test" to me is very simple. If I call you at 3 AM and say, "Bring a shovel" do you hesitate, ask questions, discuss it with your spouse....Or do you get in the car and get to my house as quickly as you can? Everyone else is some varying level of acquaintance.
My entire life is built around a moral and ethical framework, a particular worldview. It affects everything about me from my family, my career, where I live, what I eat, where I vacation, what clothes I wear- and the people I choose to associate with. I can tolerate, out of simple courtesy and human decency, people who don't share my views.
However, I have no desire whatsoever to associate with them and while I won't go out of my way to harm them, nor will I go out of my way to assist them. Not my tribe. To the extent that they actively oppose me, I will do the same at every opportunity.
You are probably a typical Type 8 on an Enneagram personality chart. I am an 8 myself. Everything is about your circle of trust and who you allow in. Facts matter...feelings don't. If you can't do the job, move out of the way, let me show you how to do it right (it's not meant to demean or show up the other person - its really just to help out). It isn't always taken that way though - understandably so - but the good intent is really there. Blunt and to the point - also not taken well by some, but we really hate political correctness and the fakeness surrounding it. Fake people are on the bottom of the list of people we like to hang out with and will make it a point to call them out on it every single time.
You are probably a typical Type 8 on an Enneagram personality chart. I am an 8 myself. Everything is about your circle of trust and who you allow in. Facts matter...feelings don't. If you can't do the job, move out of the way, let me show you how to do it right (it's not meant to demean or show up the other person - its really just to help out). It isn't always taken that way though - understandably so - but the good intent is really there. Blunt and to the point - also not taken well by some, but we really hate political correctness and the fakeness surrounding it. Fake people are on the bottom of the list of people we like to hang out with and will make it a point to call them out on it every single time.
Lol, looks like I don't need to look up the chart, that's pretty much me.
Adrenaline_6
06-09-20, 11:58
Lol, looks like I don't need to look up the chart, that's pretty much me.
Yea, its a pretty useful chart sometimes. What it does is help you understand how the other types work, their strengths and weaknesses, and vice versa.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-09-20, 12:36
I consider myself to be somewhat of a loner. I have a wife, kids, a dog, and I love and enjoy them immensely. I/we have some close friends that we socialize with, and we're close with some of our immediate family members, and not so close to others. Not all of them align directly with my beliefs, but none are on the other end of the spectrum either.
I say I'm somewhat of a loner because even though I have a great family and great friends, I still enjoy doing things solo from time to time. I know guys who try to get their wives to enjoy their hobbies as much as they do, like their whole marriage is dependent upon them doing everything together all the time. My wife will go shoot a few times a year with me, same with the kids, all the other times I'm by myself. They don't enjoy it as much as I do and that's okay. I enjoy going on drives in the back country, sometimes they go and sometimes they don't. I enjoy their company when they go and enjoy the solitude when they don't.
Mozart, I can't fathom being in your shoes though. NY is one of the least desirable US locations for me, so the thought of moving there gives me abdominal pains. If I had to be there though, I would not want to compound my misery by hanging out with the people you describe. I would try to find people with similar interests if you can instead of trying to shoe horn people into your life simply because you were close 20 years ago.
Man, that’s like volunteering to live with a sliver of rusty steel jammed under your fingernail.
I can empathize a bit because I live on the left coast. That being said I try to spend my time with people who share my love of liberty. Some very close friends are liberal dorks, but I respect them enough to have let them know how I feel. They respect me and my opinions (some haven’t and no longer contact me). Being a veteran makes it a bit easier. I guess most people can assume I’m not a socialist when they find out I was willing to bleed for America.
Friendship HAS to be a 2 way street. If these people cannot or will not keep their drivel to themselves or has a civil discourse, I think that you are better off without them.
Mozart, do you really want to live a double life? I'm 60 years old, been around the block a few times....and stopped at plenty of houses. In life you have friends, and then you have acquaintances. The word "friend" is too often used, and is used too loosely. I have a few good and true friends, the rest are acquaintances.
You can choose to be open and truthful about your firmly held beliefs, and risk losing relationships, or you can stay in the closet and live a lie. Then there is the middle ground of watching what you say, being careful about expressing opinions, and just be a human Chameleon, just blending into the background. This is almost as bad a living a lie.
The only other consideration is where you live. In this time in our history, your personal beliefs and lifestyle can put you in danger. Hard to believe that some communities might consider you to be a substandard person or enemy because of Conservatism or Libertarianism. This is not the America I grew up in. Know your environment and how you operate within that environment.
Mozart, do you really want to live a double life? I'm 60 years old, been around the block a few times....and stopped at plenty of houses. In life you have friends, and then you have acquaintances. The word "friend" is too often used, and is used too loosely. I have a few good and true friends, the rest are acquaintances.
You can choose to be open and truthful about your firmly held beliefs, and risk losing relationships, or you can stay in the closet and live a lie. Then there is the middle ground of watching what you say, being careful about expressing opinions, and just be a human Chameleon, just blending into the background. This is almost as bad a living a lie.
The only other consideration is where you live. In this time in our history, your personal beliefs and lifestyle can put you in danger. Hard to believe that some communities might consider you to be a substandard person or enemy because of Conservatism or Libertarianism. This is not the America I grew up in. Know your environment and how you operate within that environment.
You would do well to heed this advice....
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-09-20, 20:14
Mozart, do you really want to live a double life? I'm 60 years old, been around the block a few times....and stopped at plenty of houses. In life you have friends, and then you have acquaintances. The word "friend" is too often used, and is used too loosely. I have a few good and true friends, the rest are acquaintances.
You can choose to be open and truthful about your firmly held beliefs, and risk losing relationships, or you can stay in the closet and live a lie. Then there is the middle ground of watching what you say, being careful about expressing opinions, and just be a human Chameleon, just blending into the background. This is almost as bad a living a lie.
The only other consideration is where you live. In this time in our history, your personal beliefs and lifestyle can put you in danger. Hard to believe that some communities might consider you to be a substandard person or enemy because of Conservatism or Libertarianism. This is not the America I grew up in. Know your environment and how you operate within that environment.
This is wisdom.
Say what you really believe about important issues, say it fairly often, and you'll most likely find out fairly soon what's what with your "friends".
Straight Shooter
06-09-20, 21:05
After reading more input, I am certain what should do now:
Find new friendships. I’ll explain:
What is a friend vs. someone who you’re friendly with? A friend is someone that cares about you and has your back, and most importantly, you trust implicitly. In the age of registries and red flag raids and snitching and doxing? No, I don’t fully trust anyone that doesn’t share my worldview and morals. Although I can be friendly with them, it will never be wise to be fully honest and be completely myself.
So my choice is to either stay quiet and lie about who I am, OR let the libertarian flag fly and risk one or more of them contacting the “authorities”. Nope. I need new people. If we weren’t so divided, trusting people of a different tribe would work fine.
I can still chill with them, but have to be very careful with what I say and do. And I’d rather have the comfort of being me, and having integrity. While I’m not going to break off these friend and family relationships, I’ll probably spend very little effort on them. I can handle once in a while. I cannot handle these people being my ONLY socialization.
Install a zipper on your nuts...that way you can take them off and put em n a jar whilst talking to your snowflake friends.
When done, just re-zip em right up.
PracticalRifleman
06-09-20, 21:15
I need some advice from you fine sage fellas.
It’s a very long back-story that I don’t care to delve into, but I’m going to be moving back to New York State. Terrible decision, particularly with the way things are headed.
All my life-long friends back in NY are varying degrees of left. We get along fine because I never challenge their beliefs. I never try to change their minds, only maybe plant a small seed for them to consider on their own time. But they constantly text me news articles and blather on and on with social media with their shitty received opinions.
It’s not just my close friends; most of my family is evangelical left. They believe in some wildly inaccurate things, which I fight back the urge to correct them on. And ALL, and I mean ALL, of the music I like is written by ignorant bloviating leftists. I started following most of my go-to bands and musicians on social media to keep track of their new releases and tours and such, and it’s a non-stop deluge of political bullshit.
So I feel pretty isolated. These people are willing to be friends with me, but they also seem to want to “bring me around” to their thinking. I say “their thinking”, but it’s all Received Opinion. They don’t question, they nod their heads at the idiot box every night. I don’t respect them in a way, I feel like they’re ignorant and/or close-minded by choice. At the same time, nor do I feel like trying to red pill them.
What do you do when everyone around you is deluded?
But the thought of having nobody in your life is awful. Just keep your mouth shut and enjoy your friends and family? Is it a matter of core philosophy and beliefs being in conflict? Or is it just dismissible as political nonsense? I’d like to think the latter, good friendships are hard to come by. But I don’t believe some of the friendships would survive if I were to “come out of the closet” as a center-right/ libertarian. All would have a negative opinion of me, and a few would probably call me a fascist racist and sever ties.
Stay in the closet for peace?
If you don’t respect them, why would you surround yourself with them? GTFO and stay out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After reading more input, I am certain what should do now:
Find new friendships. I’ll explain:
What is a friend vs. someone who you’re friendly with? A friend is someone that cares about you and has your back, and most importantly, you trust implicitly. In the age of registries and red flag raids and snitching and doxing? No, I don’t fully trust anyone that doesn’t share my worldview and morals. Although I can be friendly with them, it will never be wise to be fully honest and be completely myself.
So my choice is to either stay quiet and lie about who I am, OR let the libertarian flag fly and risk one or more of them contacting the “authorities”. Nope. I need new people. If we weren’t so divided, trusting people of a different tribe would work fine.
I can still chill with them, but have to be very careful with what I say and do. And I’d rather have the comfort of being me, and having integrity. While I’m not going to break off these friend and family relationships, I’ll probably spend very little effort on them. I can handle once in a while. I cannot handle these people being my ONLY socialization.
I actually typed out a long post to you last night that I deleted. It sounded way too preachy and I didn't want to come across that way. It looks like you made a decision that I was basically promoting.
About 15 years ago I shed off all the bad friends I had. Some were politically polar opposites, some were just dirt bags, some just didn't have the morals I had. It was invigorating and lonely all at once. I used this time to get closer to my wife and kids. About 8 years ago I met two dudes at the same time. None of us three knew each other one bit but we hit it off like nothing any of us have experienced in our lifetimes. I am closer to them now than I am my own brother. Their wives are like sisters to my wife. We share very similar political and moral beliefs across the board. They are completely drama free relationships that some people never find. I hope you find your own friends that think like you do. Life is to short to fake your way through it.
Mozart, let me end my participation in this thread with this quote from Oscar Wilde:
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken".
The issue is not mere differences of opinions and values...it's attempting to force their values on you by limiting your freedoms and natural rights such as the 2A and censoring your 1A.
Living around people that believe the MSM would be NO GOOD!
Adrenaline_6
06-10-20, 07:51
Show me your friends and I'll show you your future.
Show me your friends and I'll show you your future.
Well said, very well said.
Thanks for the quotes and further advice.
The decision to move is in no way my preference during times like these. It’s for my wife’s’ mental health and family relationships, and because we both have parents who all of a sudden decided to get old and have trouble getting around. Good news is this part of VA is booming for houses, and even better because rural properties are in super high demand. We spoke to our realtor, she said this place will probably sell within 6 hours for above asking price, that’s how crazy it is right now.
Back to the Wife: her family is VERY conservative Christian, and I believe before this decade is out, will be banned from attending their church by the state. Maybe then they’ll all want to pack up and we can all relocate somewhere free again. (This isn’t a crazy paranoid delusion, it has happened: in NYC, no religious gatherings of more than 10, but Floyd “protestors” gathering in the thousands are not being charged. In other words, if you have an approved worldview, you are free to go. If you engage in wrongthink, you will be prosecuted.)
The things we sacrifice for our loved ones.
Thanks for the quotes and further advice.
The decision to move is in no way my preference during times like these. It’s for my wife’s’ mental health and family relationships, and because we both have parents who all of a sudden decided to get old and have trouble getting around. Good news is this part of VA is booming for houses, and even better because rural properties are in super high demand. We spoke to our realtor, she said this place will probably sell within 6 hours for above asking price, that’s how crazy it is right now.
Back to the Wife: her family is VERY conservative Christian, and I believe before this decade is out, will be banned from attending their church by the state. Maybe then they’ll all want to pack up and we can all relocate somewhere free again. (This isn’t a crazy paranoid delusion, it has happened: in NYC, no religious gatherings of more than 10, but Floyd “protestors” gathering in the thousands are not being charged. In other words, if you have an approved worldview, you are free to go. If you engage in wrongthink, you will be prosecuted.)
The things we sacrifice for our loved ones.
Thanks for sharing. I was born in the Bay Area and grew up on the left coast in mainly Seattle suburbs, and a suburb of Saint Paul, only son of a single mom who was in education. Needless to say I was raised uber liberal. I remember when my aunt told me she voted Republican and I couldn't look at her the same way, I was maybe 14 at the time. I have since gotten out of liberal la-la land and totally changed my perspective.
Having said all of that, I would let things work their way out. My best friend growing up went out and bought a gun just over a year ago, after they had an attempted break in while he was home. Next he got a permit to carry after someone threatened him for his cell phone in a parking garage and it took the cops over 45 minutes to respond. Now they have had curfew in for the last few weeks and the wine bar down the street from their house was robbed at gun point.
My friends used to look at me like I was the strange guy from the Police Academy movies who loved guns, now they look at me as a father of 3 who is quite successful comparatively and isn't worried about my kids going out and running around the neighborhood.
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