View Full Version : Uber reliable 762 AR
Before I pull the trigger on a FN Scar 17$$$.........
My needs: A well built 7.62 AR style weapon system that will run...Reliability is first and foremost of importance. Accuracy capability- punch center mass hits consistently on man size target out to 600 yards, If I do my part.
Nothing is guaranteed but want a durable rifle that can hold on over time, solid build quality.
The Barrett Rec10 has my attention. any users with input on this rifle, please by all means.
Also looking into the POF-USA Revolution, LMT MWS, Daniel Defense DD5.
POF and Barrett Rec 10 I can pick up now. Not seeing any online folks selling the LMT right now. The rifle I seek will not see a high volume of fire, maybe 150 rds a range session, 3-4 times a year. Ill be using 5.56 rifles for most of my training.
However of course I want a rifle that can take it if I need be.
Sticking to a "AR" style rifle would be nice, since I am most used to that platform. The Scar 17 is not far off, and I am leaning that direction. But I would like some solid accurate input from actual users to see what direction I could go.
Thank you.
Are you opposed to building your own? Check out Mrgunsngear’s video on the one he built. He lists all the parts he used to build a reliable one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yalGIq6I5u4
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Before I pull the trigger on a FN Scar 17$$$.........
My needs: A well built 7.62 AR style weapon system that will run...Reliability is first and foremost of importance. Accuracy capability- punch center mass hits consistently on man size target out to 600 yards, If I do my part.
Nothing is guaranteed but want a durable rifle that can hold on over time, solid build quality.
The Barrett Rec10 has my attention. any users with input on this rifle, please by all means.
Also looking into the POF-USA Revolution, LMT MWS, Daniel Defense DD5.
POF and Barrett Rec 10 I can pick up now. Not seeing any online folks selling the LMT right now. The rifle I seek will not see a high volume of fire, maybe 150 rds a range session, 3-4 times a year. Ill be using 5.56 rifles for most of my training.
However of course I want a rifle that can take it if I need be.
Sticking to a "AR" style rifle would be nice, since I am most used to that platform. The Scar 17 is not far off, and I am leaning that direction. But I would like some solid accurate input from actual users to see what direction I could go.
Thank you.
I think the DD is a good choice amongst the ones you listed. Probably the best choice given the LMT is perpetually OOS. And maybe a better choice anyway. I would stay away from POF.
Are you opposed to building your own? Check out Mrgunsngear’s video on the one he built. He lists all the parts he used to build a reliable one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yalGIq6I5u4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I think he means 7.62x51 not x39.
YES 7.62X51 My apologies on any confusion. I live in a tiny apartment, with no bench or real room to build a rifle at this time. Looking for a rifle, where its grab and go. Why stay away from the POF? I usually hear "good" things on their products.
Daniel Defense would get my vote as well. Top notch barrel, bcg, & fully ambi lower.
masenomics
06-10-20, 19:18
KAC SR-25 would get my vote.
I've had a few different 7.62 AR pattern rifles and my all time favorite for what you describe won't be popular here. I've ran it like a 5.56 at times, 15 yards to100. Off a bipod I regularly hit head shots on the steel out to 300 plus and steel was easy to nail at 500. The farthest I ran it was 585. It was a Larue PredatAR. Most of the time it had a Nightforce 2.5X10X24.
I was looking at the KAC SR-25 16" barrel offerings...and at $5,000.00 Ill have to pass. Heard amazing things about it, and Im a cry once buy once guy...but Damn lol Anywhoo I will look into Larue, I wouldnt say Im opposed to it. I am fairly open minded.
I was looking at the KAC SR-25 16" barrel offerings...and at $5,000.00 Ill have to pass. Heard amazing things about it, and Im a cry once buy once guy...but Damn lol Anywhoo I will look into Larue, I wouldnt say Im opposed to it. I am fairly open minded.
You can buy a 16" SR25 ACC upper for $2500ish, grab something like an LMT MARS-H lower for another $1000 and be done. I have the 14.5, and 16" ACC uppers on that lower. Awesome rifles. Definitely my favorite. Now is a good time to snag a new or lightly used KAC 308 upper, because the 6.5CM SR25 uppers are hitting the shelves, and some guys are dumping their 308s.
I would buy the SR-25 E2 ADVANCED COMBAT CARBINE MLOK #31893 at $4,249 instead of a SCAR
.
https://www.kellyenterprises.net/knight-s-armament-rifles-on-sale/sr-25-e2-advanced-precision-carbine-detail.html
well tickle my nuts, I forgot to mention I kinda have a budget before optics n shit. So I would prefer to be 3k ish or under. Getting a knights sr25 upper now...Then going Mars H lower later could be a possibility.....
How about the full on LMT M-LOK Mars H rifle for 2800 ish?
I have no first hand experience, but maybe it's worth a look.
American Defense Manufacturing UIC 10A
https://youtu.be/lV0V6hBLeRU
Clyde armory had 1, 16” cl, Mlok, Mars lower MWS on the shelf Saturday in their Athens store.
It was priced in the 3-3100 range. They do internet sales. I think Governor’s gun club has a quad railed version in stock also.
I have no first hand experience, but maybe it's worth a look.
American Defense Manufacturing UIC 10A
https://youtu.be/lV0V6hBLeRU
ADM does make good stuff.
What's up with his grip?
https://www.titandefense.com/LM308mwsb-mars.html
^^^ This looks right up my alley. Ill have to check out the ADM. Thanks for replies Gents.
*Note* I am only interested in rifles with 16" or less barrel length.
- LMT is a pig so if you plan to actually patrol / field...sold mine for that reason
- POF is ultra light weight and a DI gun. I’ve got well over 5k though a 9.25” POF SBR and it’s been stellar.
- I’ve got a DD5V1 I need to sell and get a 5v3. Super accurate, reliable, reasonable weight.
- I’d give Larue a look too, but they get some hate around here.
my #1 SR25 w/ LMT Lower
LMT MWS mlok with lightweight barrel is great. Reliable. Accurate. Easy barrel swaps. Barrels and parts are available for purchase from LMT and at prices that don’t take your breath away. With the LW barrel it is about the same weight as the SR25 PC. Having owned both the LMT and KAC, I like the KAC more but if I was buying today I’d be hard pressed to buy anything other than the LMT mlok with 16” CL LW barrel.
Last summer when they could be found, the Colt CM762 was a rifle that was hard to beat for the price ($1400).
Yeah I'm sure a KAC is tits but the extra $3K POA bought me a lot of optic and ammo for it.
gunnerblue
06-11-20, 09:51
If or when the Colt models become available again, they are an excellent option. Relatively lightweight and handy, mine shoots MOA five-round groups with handloaded AMAX's
Not sure if you’re interested, but I really like my PWS MK216.
I shoot it suppressed only. I like how light it is (for a .308).
Still working up accuracy loads, but 168 gr FGMM seems to shoot great.
Yeah...KACs are the yummness. However I just dont see myself making that substantial extra $$ jump from say a LMT mws for it...specially given my needs. Weight oh yes weight. Well, gone are the days of sandbox fun, and even then we left the heavy shit in pelican cases if the mission did not require it. I honestly see my my needs as a range fun gun from 0-500m/y and something that can punch through shit better vs 556 when and if the Boogaloo hits us. Heck I was even checking out out 1000 dollar PTR 91's lol.
I think for AR gas gun Im leaning to LMT and DD, maybe Larue. And in piston, the only one that strikes me is the PWS. I really do want to like the POF revolution. But idk, the guts are thinned out of material to make it lighter and comparable to a 556 AR, and while no engineer I am, when firing the larger heavier 762x51 over n over, less material support doesnt seem ideal.
turnburglar
06-11-20, 16:15
I have a Savage MSR10 in 6.5 but also had the 308 one for a couple hundred rounds. Mine runs great now, but there where a TON of kinks that are well documented in its own thread. If I was gonna do it all over again; I would go with Larue, LMT, and DD. There are two guys that I shoot heavy metal with and IIRC the DD has like 3K on it, and the Larue had almost 10K rounds through it. One of my buddies also has an AR10 he rolled up himself on the cheap with mostly Aero parts and its got about 2k through it.
If HK and KAC aren’t in the running, the only other rifle in that class is the LMT.
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Ventenberry
06-11-20, 18:14
I vote the CZ Bren 2 BR. Probably won't be available in the U.S. for several more months, but the 5.56 version is here and there are some reviews.
https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-family/cz-bren-2-br
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhyU-6h4kMs
I vote the CZ Bren 2 BR. Probably won't be available in the U.S. for several more months, but the 5.56 version is here and there are some reviews.
https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-family/cz-bren-2-br
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhyU-6h4kMs
How can you vote for a rifle that isn’t even available yet and has no real world end-user data/experience? It appears to be an interesting design and I look forward to owning one. But speaking as someone who loves rifles that lack any real factory support (FN FNC and Swiss SIG 55x), if you’re buying the CZ 308 Bren as your go-to, you need to factor in spare parts and support, and most importantly the ability to support and function as an armorer yourself. Good luck with these neat alternative Euro guns 10-20 years from now, unless you go deep buying parts now. LMT MWS is battle proven, reliable, accurate, reasonable in weight with the LW barrel, and has spare parts and barrels readily available. It’s also super easy to support yourself.
How can you vote for a rifle that isn’t even available yet and has no real world end-user data/experience?
Because it looks bada$$ of course! ;) :p
Ventenberry
06-12-20, 19:08
How can you vote for a rifle that isn’t even available yet and has no real world end-user data/experience? It appears to be an interesting design and I look forward to owning one. But speaking as someone who loves rifles that lack any real factory support (FN FNC and Swiss SIG 55x), if you’re buying the CZ 308 Bren as your go-to, you need to factor in spare parts and support, and most importantly the ability to support and function as an armorer yourself. Good luck with these neat alternative Euro guns 10-20 years from now, unless you go deep buying parts now. LMT MWS is battle proven, reliable, accurate, reasonable in weight with the LW barrel, and has spare parts and barrels readily available. It’s also super easy to support yourself.
Cause I live in the U.S.A. and for now, I can vote for what I want unless BLM strips me of all my rights. All kidding aside the OP mentioned a SCAR and from what I can see this is an improved SCAR for less money. The Czech Army has adopted the rifle, so that's a pretty good endorsement. It's lighter than any AR-10 style rifle, uses a more modern operating system and may be more reliable.
I don't disagree that LMT makes a perhaps best in class rifle and they are battle proven. I own some 5.56 stuff from LMT.
From what I can see CZ is becoming more and more receptive to the American market and the only thing that would stop them from supporting their American firearms sales would be some wokey woke Democrats that will take your rights away. The Czechs are part of Visegrad, very conservative, so all more the reason to support them.
How can you vote for a rifle that isn’t even available yet and has no real world end-user data/experience? It appears to be an interesting design and I look forward to owning one. But speaking as someone who loves rifles that lack any real factory support (FN FNC and Swiss SIG 55x), if you’re buying the CZ 308 Bren as your go-to, you need to factor in spare parts and support, and most importantly the ability to support and function as an armorer yourself. Good luck with these neat alternative Euro guns 10-20 years from now, unless you go deep buying parts now. LMT MWS is battle proven, reliable, accurate, reasonable in weight with the LW barrel, and has spare parts and barrels readily available. It’s also super easy to support yourself.
A thousand times this. I enjoy shooting my SAN SG 751, but LMT's support, parts, quality, and value make them a no-brainer for actual use.
I have an LMT MWS in 762 and 6.5CM
I have the Colt6.5CM ( but these are difficult to find if not impossible)
I would trust DD, HK and KAC.
I dont care for the recoil impulse of the SCAR even though its a solid rifle.
PB
V Seven Harbinger looks like an attractive option, under 7 lbs.
I'd buy an Armalite A series for well under $2k, swap the trigger and drop Kahles glass on top. These guns are often overlooked but they flat out run.
ETA: Whatever you buy, make sure spare parts can be purchased without sending the gun back to the manufacturer if it goes down. I seem to recall Daniel Defense, Barrett, and Savage are hesitant to send parts and want the gun sent back for repair.
Woollymonster
06-14-20, 18:59
If you have the cash I would go with a KAC or LaRue OBR. I have a buddy with a KAC SR25 and it is one of the smoothest most reliable AR10's I have ever shot.
I have owned a LaRue OBR 5.56 with a 20" barrel for over 10 years now. Ultra reliable and ultra accurate. .5 MOA is not a problem with match grade 77 grain ammo. It has never had a failure, suppressed or not. Many pigs in Texas have met their demise to this rifle.
After lusting after one for years, I finally ordered a 7.62 OBR with 18" barrel. It will wear a Night Force ATACR 4x16 F1 with Mil-C reticule. Mount will be a LaRue LT-104 and Troy BIUS. I have another buddy with this exact same rifle and I think it is every bit as good as the KAC. I can't wait to get my hands on it!
Daniel Defense and Noveske will also get praise from me.
62830
Once again thank you for the replies. The gun market is rather dry at the moment due to Covid and riots. I will certainly look into some rifles that were mentioned in this thread. If I end up picking up a 308 AR, I going to go 16" barrel and slap on a Acog and call it a day. I want a "AR15" with more knock down basically. Once you start going with a 18-20" 308 with nice glass and bipod, weight adds up and it goes towards a precision rifle direction which is not my intention. Honestly the SCAR 17 is probably the best rifle for my needs. It is not the best at anything, but it is good at a lot of things. But I also want to see what evolves as it seems the 308 AR-10 is getting more refined as time goes on. Also was to keep my eye on the 6mm ARC...but that is a different topic.
Thank you for some more information regarding the AR-10 platform. In my old Army days we had M1a rifles we borrowed from 1st Group, and our M24 bolt gun. Our unit was in the process of ordering SR-25's, however I discharged before I was able to play with them. So my experience is 0 with the AR-10. I know what I am looking for in terms of portable firepower, and now I just got to find it...and afford it lol.
Once again thank you for the replies. The gun market is rather dry at the moment due to Covid and riots. I will certainly look into some rifles that were mentioned in this thread. If I end up picking up a 308 AR, I going to go 16" barrel and slap on a Acog and call it a day. I want a "AR15" with more knock down basically. Once you start going with a 18-20" 308 with nice glass and bipod, weight adds up and it goes towards a precision rifle direction which is not my intention. Honestly the SCAR 17 is probably the best rifle for my needs. It is not the best at anything, but it is good at a lot of things. But I also want to see what evolves as it seems the 308 AR-10 is getting more refined as time goes on. Also was to keep my eye on the 6mm ARC...but that is a different topic.
Thank you for some more information regarding the AR-10 platform. In my old Army days we had M1a rifles we borrowed from 1st Group, and our M24 bolt gun. Our unit was in the process of ordering SR-25's, however I discharged before I was able to play with them. So my experience is 0 with the AR-10. I know what I am looking for in terms of portable firepower, and now I just got to find it...and afford it lol.
I would rethink the ACOG on a 308. There are so many better options, namely 1-6 (kahles k16i, vortex razor hd2e), 1-8 (NF ATACR, NF nx8, S&B SD), and 1-10 (vortex razor) that are very well suited for a 308 carbine.
A NF ATACR 4-16 with a red dot in Arisaka offset mount would also be an excellent option if you want more mag.
I had a TA11 3.5x acog on a Scar 17 from before and loved it. Engaging steel from 50 to 400 no problem. I do not require a variable for my needs. I’ve ran them before on other rifles, they have their purpose, but not on what I am seeking for a simple SHTF 308 carbine put a BG in the dirt 0-500 type of thing. What’s better for you isn’t necessarily better for me.
It may be heresy to mention this one on this forum, but the Sig 716 DMR is a really nice, reliable and accurate rifle in your price range. https://www.sigsauer.com/products/firearms/rifles/sig716/
lmt, you won't find better
You know what I’d like?.... A list of what manufactures use the curved lowers and what manufacturers use the angled lowers. Like can a PWS lower be used with a KAC upper? Can a LMT lower be used with a DD upper? The 7.62 world is worse than a family reunion.
You know what I’d like?.... A list of what manufactures use the curved lowers and what manufacturers use the angled lowers. Like can a PWS lower be used with a KAC upper? Can a LMT lower be used with a DD upper? The 7.62 world is worse than a family reunion.And if curved, are the uppers high or low tang as well. Some do say, others leave it up to the imagination.
You know what I’d like?.... A list of what manufactures use the curved lowers and what manufacturers use the angled lowers. Like can a PWS lower be used with a KAC upper? Can a LMT lower be used with a DD upper? The 7.62 world is worse than a family reunion.
Within the angle cut receivers you have multiple pivot / take down pin diameters and multiple upper receiver lug dimensions. Additionally, there can be clearance issues for ambi controls with some upper receivers.
KAC, Larue, and LMT uppers are functional with the following lowers: Armalite A series, KAC, Larue, LMT.
Armalite uppers are functional with the following lowers: Armalite A series or KAC, Larue, LMT with minor modification to the pivot / take down pin lugs.
Larue ultimate uppers have been successfully paired with Stag lowers.
Matrix Aerospace produced the Ruger 762 receivers so there should be compatibility between them.
Genesis is a KAC clone, if available and machined correctly it should fit Armalite A series, KAC, Larue, LMT.
JP has or had an upper that was built for use with KAC lowers and should be compatible with Armalite A series, Larue, LMT.
Geissele makes a mil exclusive upper that was built for use with KAC lowers and should be compatible with Armalite A series, Larue, LMT.
Centurion is updating their billet upper which is KAC compatible.
SMF Tactical uppers are modeled after Armalite A series but have DPMS barrel nut thread pattern. Pivot / take down pin lugs would require modification to be compatible with KAC, Larue, LMT lowers.
There are rumors of compatibility that I won't mention because I've never seen pics of receivers paired together or videos of functioning rifles.
KAC, LMT, Larue, Armalite, Stag, Noveske, Centurion, Wilson Combat, Ruger, V-Seven, Matrix Aerospace, American Defense Manufacturing, Troy, ZEV / MEGA, JP, Genesis, SMF, Les Baer, and Savage are companies who have offered angle cut receivers. There might have been old school Bushmaster and Rock River that made use of angled cut receivers.
IKnowNotEverything
06-29-20, 15:18
https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/lmt/mwsdfdr-mws-defender-308-16in-20rd-black/
Picture doesn't match the product on their website. This is the MLOK defender (non-ambi, waffle stock, single stage) Probably as good a deal as you'll find.
I believe TitanDefense has a few in stock, and he'll work with you to customize a rifle prior to shipping, but you'll pay the parts differences.
I have a REC10, still haven’t a strong opinion yet. It is light, about same as KAC ACC, I have both so I do know. Still judging accuracy, I will say I was highly disappointed with the mil-spec trigger, so plan to budget on a Geissele or Larue. I will say it has gone bang every time, shooting PRVI M80 and Magtech 168 OTM. When I have more to say, I’ll start a thread.
IKnowNotEverything
07-06-20, 19:26
I actually purchased the LMT MWS I linked above. Second place was Seekins SP10, and Larue Ultimate Upper was in the running. I didn't want to spend more than $2k or so, and the LMT pedigree won me over in the end.
The rifle is not nearly as piggish as I was led to believe, cycled perfectly with the limited ammo we ran through it as a function test, and the recoil impulse was much less than I would have believed. The trigger and waffle stock will have to be replaced immediately.
Didn't get a chance to sight her in as the range was packed, and though we had a private bay it was only 35 meters. I had no plans to use the public sight-in area. I plan to put a Bushnell DMR2-i to match my LRTS on the AR15, and call it a day.
Very pleased initially.
Can't go wrong getting an LMT MWS - I've come close to getting one myself several times. Congrats.
Rhino, don’t worry about getting one, I’ve got enough for both of us. Be careful buying one AR10, another can follow quickly.
Black rifle disease is black rifle disease regardless of size.
PB
Yeah LMT is certainly nice. I reached out to Titan earlier this week, Good folks. I actually think im going to snag up a 5.56 first from them, MRP upper with Mars lower. I am going to hold off on the AR 308 at the moment. I think for MY personal desires on what I want from a 7.62x51 semi-auto rifle- Reliable, fairly lightweight and maneuverable, simple design, battlefield accurate etc I think the Scar 17 fits the bill best. Is it worth 3000+ ? No, not in my opinion. But it is what it is. The AR-10 world seems to be evolving over time, with constantly updated features. Rifles are becoming lighter, and reliability appears to be on the incline as well. Honestly in my humble opinion the 762 is outdated for a caliber that would be deployed as a intermediate cartridge that would deliver more punch and power vs a 5.56 mm, yet still be nimble and handier and put people in the dirt from 0-800 meters. Something along the lines of a 6.5 Grendel give or take. A happy medium where you have a round that wont beat up a lighter rifle, yet still deliver strong performance. Anywhoo...little off topic, roger that. Ill move on. But some great advice in here, enjoy hearing the input. Think we can all agree on LMT making a darn good product, and there also seems to be few other companies building some good shit as well.
Yeah LMT is certainly nice. I reached out to Titan earlier this week, Good folks. I actually think im going to snag up a 5.56 first from them, MRP upper with Mars lower. I am going to hold off on the AR 308 at the moment. I think for MY personal desires on what I want from a 7.62x51 semi-auto rifle- Reliable, fairly lightweight and maneuverable, simple design, battlefield accurate etc I think the Scar 17 fits the bill best. Is it worth 3000+ ? No, not in my opinion. But it is what it is. The AR-10 world seems to be evolving over time, with constantly updated features. Rifles are becoming lighter, and reliability appears to be on the incline as well. Honestly in my humble opinion the 762 is outdated for a caliber that would be deployed as a intermediate cartridge that would deliver more punch and power vs a 5.56 mm, yet still be nimble and handier and put people in the dirt from 0-800 meters. Something along the lines of a 6.5 Grendel give or take. A happy medium where you have a round that wont beat up a lighter rifle, yet still deliver strong performance. Anywhoo...little off topic, roger that. Ill move on. But some great advice in here, enjoy hearing the input. Think we can all agree on LMT making a darn good product, and there also seems to be few other companies building some good shit as well.
Get a 6.5CM, the sweet spot for bumping up potential from 556. Shot 130-grain pills and it's a soft shooter.
PB
Get a 6.5CM, the sweet spot for bumping up potential from 556. Shot 130-grain pills and it's a soft shooter.
PB
I plan to for a precision build. 6.5 CM has been on my radar for some time now.
Failure2Stop
07-08-20, 07:37
Get a 6.5CM, the sweet spot for bumping up potential from 556. Shot 130-grain pills and it's a soft shooter.
PB
I am a huge fan of the 140gr Berger Hybrid projectiles, and equally as much so for the Berger loaded ammo.
https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-creedmoor-140gr-hybrid-target/#:~:text=The%20Berger%206.5mm%20140gr,for%20its%20weight%20and%20caliber.
Knights ACC
They still in business?
I have a PSA Gen3 have shot 5 types of ammo through it haven't had to adjust the gas block. I have no idea what it is set on. Mrgunsngear had them listed on his facebook alerts for a complete rifle. It was a stainless barrel like mine. You can always buy a 4150 nitride barrel in the future.
Scar? Try getting replacement parts for their proprietary parts. PSA's lower takes standard FCG's so the sky is the limit on your trigger choices.
2 models in stock right now https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-10/ar-10-rifles.html?caliber_multi=.308+Win I would get the 2 stage trigger model.
Failure2Stop
07-20-20, 12:07
They still in business?
The door opened and a whole lot of people were running machines when I got to the office this morning...
The door opened and a whole lot of people were running machines when I got to the office this morning...
Good to know because I think this whole thing is horse shit.
PB
They still in business?
I have a PSA Gen3 have shot 5 types of ammo through it haven't had to adjust the gas block. I have no idea what it is set on. Mrgunsngear had them listed on his facebook alerts for a complete rifle. It was a stainless barrel like mine. You can always buy a 4150 nitride barrel in the future.
Scar? Try getting replacement parts for their proprietary parts. PSA's lower takes standard FCG's so the sky is the limit on your trigger choices.
2 models in stock right now https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-10/ar-10-rifles.html?caliber_multi=.308+Win I would get the 2 stage trigger model.
You’re really on this forum trash talking KAC, while waxing poetic about PSA’?
You’re really on this forum trash talking KAC, while waxing poetic about PSA’?
I think I had KAC confused with Adams Arms. I know Adams was having financial troubles. So no, I wasn't talking trash. And the damned PSA Gen3's are a great deal. I have a Gen2 lower. It need to be modified to work like the 3. It ran perfect. Just got pinged by the BCG.
IKnowNotEverything
07-23-20, 00:06
PSA and "uber-reliable" do not go together. They may be fine for a range toy or an affordable hunting option, but i would not trust PSA to competitive use and definitely not for anything where a life may be on the line.
PSA and "uber-reliable" do not go together. They may be fine for a range toy or an affordable hunting option, but i would not trust PSA to competitive use and definitely not for anything where a life may be on the line.
I know, unless you spend $3000+ on an AR anything you'll die!!!!! :rolleyes: some people amaze me. So that's where this thread is headed? LOL! :sarcastic: Gucci guns
Woollymonster
07-23-20, 05:21
I have been very happy with my Larue OBR 7.62 that I got about a month ago. With the 20" barrel, I am pushing 175 SMK's at 2551 fps and, I am still in the testing phase but I think I can get a little more out of that load. It shoots as accurately as my bolt gun and has had zero failures. Five shots under 1" at 100 are the norm. Also runs great suppressed. You get what you pay for. I think this one will be around a long time.
63207
I know, unless you spend $3000+ on an AR anything you'll die!!!!! :rolleyes: some people amaze me. So that's where this thread is headed? LOL! :sarcastic: Gucci guns
$2000ish will do for an LMT MWS, they run just fine.
$2000ish will do for an LMT MWS, they run just fine.
I couldn't find my sarcasm button. I have Less than $700 in my PSA. I bought it in the salad days when things were cheap. My lower was $149 with a ACS-L stock. Small Arms Soultions has a video of him running a G3 throught the paces
Yeah I get it. I don't mind spending smart money and always buy complete mfg assembled lowers. These higher priced items from LMT/KAC are proven, validated systems. Not saying they're perfect, but to my knowledge PSA isn't fulfilling any .mil contracts, the other two are.
So a military contract is your standard of measure? My BCG is Toolcraft, the original fcg was mil-spec. All the forgings are 7075 T6. What parts concern you? I have fired 5 or 6 brands of ammo. No problem. I understand they had problems in the past. Who hasn't? My big dollar AR-15 is my Colt 6920LE. Not big money to some. It's warranty has run out. All my PSA's won't. I have a direct line to get anything fixed. I'm not happy my ar10 has a stainless barrel., Not a problem to change.we have the technology to do that.
So a military contract is your standard of measure? My BCG is Toolcraft, the original fcg was mil-spec. All the forgings are 7075 T6. What parts concern you? I have fired 5 or 6 brands of ammo. No problem. I understand they had problems in the past. Who hasn't? My big dollar AR-15 is my Colt 6920LE. Not big money to some. It's warranty has run out. All my PSA's won't. I have a direct line to get anything fixed. I'm not happy my ar10 has a stainless barrel., Not a problem to change.we have the technology to do that.
Large frame AR parts are a “whatever sells” spec unless you’re buying from a reputable company. I wouldn’t put a toolcraft carrier in the same league as a Knights or LMT enhanced carrier. There is no commercial standard for .308 bolts, so who knows what you get. Who knows how it fits with a commercial upper from a budget manufacture that has an equally ambiguous spec.
Upper and lower forging material is usually the least of my worries when buying a rifle as everyone and their mother has 7075 forgings. Mil-spec fire control group? What military spec for a .308? An AR-15 fire control group isn’t mil-spec unless it’s 3-round burst or full auto. For semi-auto it would be a Knights or HK (or LMT).
How is head space? Chamber? Gas port? Firing pin hole? Accuracy? PSA has time and time again shown not to have consistency in key areas.
I have a lot of experience with PSA’s PA-10 and their customer service. The rifle is a joke. They couldn’t fix mine and when I told them what issues it had they gave me what amounted to a blank stare. I sold it with full disclosure to a guy who just wanted to turn money into noise, which is all PSA is good for.
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Good folks do it all the time, but I’m not buying an AR10 that isn’t complete from the factory. There is so much cornfusion with the large frame AR’s, not me. I think RoberttheTexan and others have crushed it, but I just can’t make that gamble.
PB
So a military contract is your standard of measure?
Nope, the quick change barrel system, mlok rail, dmr stock, ambi controls all add up to a very versatile rifle system, bought as a 20" 308 mlok sniper, reconfigured as a pic rail 20" 6.5CM with a 16" 308 mlok counterpart. Function is guaranteed, if I have a problem LMT will correct it. LMT isn't perfect, I have an ambi 5.56 lower that won't lock back, I've had a 5.56 ejector roll pin break jamming up in the barrel extension, Gene fixed it. My satisfaction with their lowers sold me on LMT quality, then came the MRP/MWS quick change barrels. Good stuff.
EDIT: When I ordered my Sniper it was maybe 6 weeks out, so getting antsy I found a very clean used LMT 308 16" MWS and absolutely loved shooting that rifle. Sold it after I reconfigured the sniper, but sold it for about what I had in it.
... I’m not buying an AR10 that isn’t complete from the factory. There is so much cornfusion with the large frame AR’s, not me. I think RoberttheTexan and others have crushed it, but I just can’t make that gamble.
PB
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FFHsud3VVwaLgk%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1
Right there with ya PB. Part of the reason I went with a SCAR 17 back in 2012 - LMT was a piggy with no lightweight options, KAC was pretty much unobtainium, and everything else seemed like a big roll of the dice. Did the same recently with the Colt CM762 and will likely again someday with a LMT/KAC rifle.
IKnowNotEverything
07-24-20, 01:41
I do feel like ArmaLite should not be overlooked. Their SuperSASS is about to hit gen 2, which I'd have been very interested if I felt I had the luxury of waiting. Goddamn election...
I know a standard AR-15 fcg fits. So plenty of choices.
I know a standard AR-15 fcg fits. So plenty of choices.
As it does in KAC, LMT, DD, and LaRue large frame gas guns.
Woollymonster
07-24-20, 20:31
Decent Range session today with my OBR. I did finally find a load that it did not like, factory Federal Gold Medal Match 175 SMK. Those bullets barely make 2400 fps and do not have enough power to push the bolt back far enough to strip another round from the magazine. They do run fine suppressed though. Otherwise, it has eaten every hand load or factory ammo that I have fed it.
https://i.imgur.com/VaZyRVH.jpg
Other than the 2 fliers, great 10 shot group with 168 SMK.
https://i.imgur.com/Zz1IyLU.jpg
Again, a nasty flier but still a good group with 178 ELD-X. This will be my go to load. Time to hunt some pork.
https://i.imgur.com/rEW2GQw.jpg
Decent Range session today with my OBR. I did finally find a load that it did not like, factory Federal Gold Medal Match 175 SMK. Those bullets barely make 2400 fps and do not have enough power to push the bolt back far enough to strip another round from the magazine. They do run fine suppressed though. Otherwise, it has eaten every hand load or factory ammo that I have fed it.
Nice groups. OBRs shoot lights out. The tolerances are amazing too. The bolt group has no play in the upper and glides like two oiled glass surfaces. Truly amazing machining.
My only gripe is that LaRue should have nixed the 20moa top rail in favor of a 0moa rail. And update to mlok.
Woollymonster
07-25-20, 07:41
Yes, I used the OBR LT111 mount which has 0 elevation. Works out pretty good. MLok would be nice. I don't think these rifles have changed since their inception.
Yes, I used the OBR LT111 mount which has 0 elevation. Works out pretty good. MLok would be nice. I don't think these rifles have changed since their inception.
Yep, I had that. But the rail height always bugged me. I swapped to a lower (around 1.3” iirc) 0-moa Spuhr mount and was very pleased with the setup.
LaRue should have just released the Texas Rangers model of the OBR, which had the PredatOBR upper and handguard with OBR barrel and adjustable gasblock.
These get a great review from Small Arms Solutions https://www.rkguns.com/diamondback-db10-308-win-semi-automatic-rifle-db10ccmlb-20-1-16.html?trk_msg=DULNL37H23C472B98M56B2D6UO&trk_contact=75IB6QB7B8OV4AGNTE2QO0H5AO&trk_sid=HMG69JST1CD97HOLEBFL5DQ6DO&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=1794000040&utm_campaign=August+2020&utm_content=2020-08-05+Inland+Lib $800 and instant sell out.
Good folks do it all the time, but I’m not buying an AR10 that isn’t complete from the factory. There is so much cornfusion with the large frame AR’s, not me. I think RoberttheTexan and others have crushed it, but I just can’t make that gamble.
PB
This is my conclusion also. If I buy a 7.62 AR I'm only crying once and buying a LMT MWS with a 18" bbl.
For now I'll stick with my G3.
This is my conclusion also. If I buy a 7.62 AR I'm only crying once and buying a LMT MWS with a 18" bbl.
For now I'll stick with my G3.
My Gen3 PSA lower has been fine. Everyone has "poo-pooed" me for the 18" barrel. I will either build another upper in 16" or swap out my present barrel on my PSA Gen3 upper. I have a Gen2 lower from PSA also.
I had the LMT MWS and like it but the weight was a consideration (hiking distance), so when I discovered the Colt 901 ( and it was a pound lighter) I began my search.
The 901 is for sure a solid battle carbine, it has given repeatable 1 inch +/- groups at 100 yards.
Since Covid-19 I do not shoot as much as I did, the Colt has been fired less than 200 rounds.
I miss the barrel changing of the LMT, but the Colt 901 does perform.
Some thing lighter would catch my attention, but functionality with lighter carbines is a consideration.
The 7.62 cartridge is not the best, but it does work in many different situations and it is available.
The days of shooting at the range may be over.
I had the LMT MWS and like it but the weight was a consideration (hiking distance), so when I discovered the Colt 901 ( and it was a pound lighter) I began my search.
The 901 is for sure a solid battle carbine, it has given repeatable 1 inch +/- groups at 100 yards.
Since Covid-19 I do not shoot as much as I did, the Colt has been fired less than 200 rounds.
I miss the barrel changing of the LMT, but the Colt 901 does perform.
Some thing lighter would catch my attention, but functionality with lighter carbines is a consideration.
The 7.62 cartridge is not the best, but it does work in many different situations and it is available.
The days of shooting at the range may be over.
The LW barrel changed the MWS into a much more handy rifle. LMT should make that standard on all barrels.
constructor
09-08-20, 11:10
Bare weight of LMT?
9.83lbs, that is 14oz heavier than my HK 91
IKnowNotEverything
09-08-20, 13:10
Got to take the MWS out for its initial sight in. Had a box of 155 gr Federal Steel Match to go through.
The good news is the gun is a laser. 1 moa groups without a bipod. The bad news is I had several malfunctions, including a double feed. So the gun may not like steel case, which is fine because they discontinued it anyway.
Going to get a big box of 175 RazorCore and re-zero before I try to stretch it out further.
Got to take the MWS out for its initial sight in. Had a box of 155 gr Federal Steel Match to go through.
The good news is the gun is a laser. 1 moa groups without a bipod. The bad news is I had several malfunctions, including a double feed. So the gun may not like steel case, which is fine because they discontinued it anyway.
Going to get a big box of 175 RazorCore and re-zero before I try to stretch it out further.
I don’t know that much about Federal Steel Match, but what magazine were you using?
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IKnowNotEverything
09-09-20, 02:32
Range has a bench that is a weird height so I was resting the rifle on the pmag and using a bag to support my forward hand while getting in position. Not ideal.
I’ll have a proper setup next time and take some 10 rounders out instead of the 20 that came in the box.
I do feel like ArmaLite should not be overlooked. Their SuperSASS is about to hit gen 2, which I'd have been very interested if I felt I had the luxury of waiting. Goddamn election...
Yea, I don't hear many problems reported with Genesio AR10's / DEF10's.
I think they recently moved to Arizona.
Aside from KAC/LMT I only mess with Armalite.
My SR25 is so handy when hunting.
Look at an SR25 like a MacBook Pro or something. Yes, it is expensive but it lasts longer and it just works.
I mean $4k for a really good 308 rifle pays for itself
I had the LMT MWS and like it but the weight was a consideration (hiking distance), so when I discovered the Colt 901 ( and it was a pound lighter) I began my search.
The 901 is for sure a solid battle carbine, it has given repeatable 1 inch +/- groups at 100 yards.
Since Covid-19 I do not shoot as much as I did, the Colt has been fired less than 200 rounds.
I miss the barrel changing of the LMT, but the Colt 901 does perform.
Some thing lighter would catch my attention, but functionality with lighter carbines is a consideration.
The 7.62 cartridge is not the best, but it does work in many different situations and it is available.
The days of shooting at the range may be over.
Well, I suppose there are better options out there these days, but the 7.62 has put a lot of people on the wrong side of the dirt. I think the ole girl still has a viable place to occupy, even these days.
IKnowNotEverything
09-12-20, 19:14
Ventured into an Academy last night and checked out the ammo shelf. It was completely devoid of anything in 9mm. 5.56, or 308. Saw some limited 7.62x39.
There was plenty of 6.5 Creedmoor though. I am going to get a barrel ordered up, though I understand they’re back ordered til JUNE...
This really is an addiction. I’m so impressed I’m ordering a rifle length receiver set and building it a little brother.
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