View Full Version : Matt Gaetz calls out ATF for going backdoor on pistol braces
WickedWillis
06-17-20, 11:42
On a podcast yesterday, Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz called out the ATF for apparently spinning new rules and new restrictions on pistol braces behind the scenes as of late. We have dealt with things like this before, but Congressman are not usually the ones spilling the beans on it.
This concerns me for several reasons, some of which Gaetz touches on. Passing a new law, or rule set could turn possibly millions of gun owners into felons overnight. If there is a grace period to register as SBR's, the ATF cannot even keep up with the current forms they get now, and this would be an even bigger nightmare with them involved. Waiting for the Government to give a you a permission slip, in a Government mandated time period is a horrible idea. Also, these back room conversations and deals are not in the best interest of a free people, and should be snuffed immediately. I am glad the Congressman brought this up, and is speaking and writing against it.
Here we go, yet again.
http://https://gaetz.house.gov/media/hottakespress/gaetz-calls-atf-cease-plans-restricting-arm-brace-usage
https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/1273262917266399237
ericridebike
06-17-20, 11:50
So if they did reverse their decision, do you think we would be good to simply remove the brace? Would it still be a pistol at that point?
PracticalRifleman
06-17-20, 11:52
Hmmm with everybody’s attention diverted by current events? Hmmmm
Maybe some rich woke Hollywood stars will bail all the peaceful gun owners out of the clink?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WickedWillis
06-17-20, 12:08
So if they did reverse their decision, do you think we would be good to simply remove the brace? Would it still be a pistol at that point?
Possibly. Have the foam covered buffer tubes of old.
Just so you all realize it, if the extreme Democrat’s gain control, ****ALL**** gun owners will be outlaws at some point. Also, at some point in the future SBR’s will be next. And they know who has them and right where to go to confiscate them.
Yep..crazy it’s on their menu at this time.
@MistWolf clear your PMs
WickedWillis
06-17-20, 13:28
Just so you all realize it, if the extreme Democrat’s gain control, ****ALL**** gun owners will be outlaws at some point. Also, at some point in the future SBR’s will be next. And they know who has them and right where to go to confiscate them.
Yes I am very aware of that.
I do wonder how they could go about that considering you are paying for a Government mandated stamp to be legal, that they might use that against people, but it is the Government, so.
This is and has always been my concern with pistol AR's. I knew at some point that they would be questioned, and for what? The fact that they are concealable? I'm shocked that they haven't gone after this decision sooner.
lonestardiver
06-17-20, 14:33
Fixed your link:
https://gaetz.house.gov/media/hottakespress/gaetz-calls-atf-cease-plans-restricting-arm-brace-usage
I’m not saying this isn’t being done, but where’s the evidence?
So if they did reverse their decision, do you think we would be good to simply remove the brace? Would it still be a pistol at that point?
Well you never needed a brace to be a pistol in the first place. So it would still be a pistol.
I'm glad someone leaked the info to the congressman. He is one of the few people at a level where he can put a boot up their backside.
For the actual community of persons with disabilities, is there a new level of disability that the ATF will require? I hate law suits, but this is the sort of thing that needs to be crushed. Changing back and forth is not the prerogative of US Law Enforcement agencies. It is either against the law, or it is not. Since firearms are not restricted by class, race, creed, color or disability (last I knew), what we are looking at is discriminatory activities from an enforcement agency of the GOV.
Is you mother unable to hoist an AR15, Mini-14, or other full sized weapon? Is your disabled grandfather? A pistol is a suitable defensive weapon. It isn't about having an arm or leg injury, it is about being treated equally regardless of the reason.
Happy that Matt is giving it to those ATF foooks with both barrels.
A lawyer friend of mine said the ATF should spend more time trying to find REAL criminals, instead of sitting in their cubicles trying to think up new ways to screw over the American public.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-17-20, 16:08
It kinda feels like we're in the first Matt Bracken novel "Enemies Foreign and Domestic".
I just want to know what mental midget wrote another damn letter to ATF??? :mad:
Non-compliance is the name of the game from now on.
Hammer_Man
06-17-20, 16:57
Non elected bureaucrats at it again, trying to enact draconian laws without any authority to do so.
Ever since hearing of a pistol brace and ever since buying one I have expected them to become illegal. Or the sbr part of the NFA to be removed (wishful thinking).
Many big manufacturers don’t sell ‘pistol braces’ with thier ‘pistols’. That have you buy them separate. Many dealers, include them. I call this a clue. Also, I take many classes at Sig Academy. sig does sell brace equipped pistols. I rember one class a sig instructor telling a student to put away his sig brace equipped Sig pistol in a carbine class ‘because you can’t shoulder it’. Another clue.
As a result I’m in process of doing a form one on all my ‘pistols’ that would suck with out a brace. Like all my B&T apc series guns. The fun won’t last forever.
In my state we can role in a vehicle with a loaded ‘pistol’, but not a loaded rifle. We can hunt with an over 6 round mag in a ‘pistol’, but not a rifle. To me, this will be the biggest loss.
Non-compliance is the name of the game from now on.
THIS.
"At some point you will have to stop running and take a stand. Either you, your children, or your grandchildren. Better you than them."
thestoicmarcusaurelius
06-17-20, 18:46
I think it would be political malpractice to ban pistol braces months before the November elections. All bets are off after that though imo.
I'm glad someone leaked the info to the congressman. He is one of the few people at a level where he can put a boot up their backside.
For the actual community of persons with disabilities, is there a new level of disability that the ATF will require? I hate law suits, but this is the sort of thing that needs to be crushed. Changing back and forth is not the prerogative of US Law Enforcement agencies. It is either against the law, or it is not. Since firearms are not restricted by class, race, creed, color or disability (last I knew), what we are looking at is discriminatory activities from an enforcement agency of the GOV.
Is you mother unable to hoist an AR15, Mini-14, or other full sized weapon? Is your disabled grandfather? A pistol is a suitable defensive weapon. It isn't about having an arm or leg injury, it is about being treated equally regardless of the reason.
Not too many years ago in TN it was illegal to use a crossbow during bow season for deer unless you had a doctor's note saying you have a disability or injury that prevented the use of a bow. They eventually did away with the law because it was discriminatory and unenforceable since people were getting bogus notes just to hunt with a crossbow. I could see the same happening with braces if they decide to go that route.
ATF is debating a ban on "one manufacturers" AR brace, not all of them. It is believed that the brace in question is the SB Tactical SBA3. With that said, I am against any and all 2nd Amendment infringements.
Diamondback
06-17-20, 19:49
ATF is LONG overdue for a Congressional colonoscopy. With a telescope big enough to see Pluto...
I’m not saying this isn’t being done, but where’s the evidence?
US Congressman stated such. A copy of letter to Barr also out here.
Are you questioning Congressman Gaetz?
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-17-20, 20:10
Ever since hearing of a pistol brace and ever since buying one I have expected them to become illegal. Or the sbr part of the NFA to be removed (wishful thinking).
Many big manufacturers don’t sell ‘pistol braces’ with thier ‘pistols’. That have you buy them separate. Many dealers, include them. I call this a clue. Also, I take many classes at Sig Academy. sig does sell brace equipped pistols. I rember one class a sig instructor telling a student to put away his sig brace equipped Sig pistol in a carbine class ‘because you can’t shoulder it’. Another clue.
Daniel Defense, BCM, PSA, and SOLGW all sell AR pistols with braces. There was only a brief period of time where ATF ruled that they couldn't be shouldered, it was challenged and they reversed position.
ATF is debating a ban on "one manufacturers" AR brace, not all of them. It is believed that the brace in question is the SB Tactical SBA3. With that said, I am against any and all 2nd Amendment infringements.
Odd as the SBA4 is more “stock like”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-17-20, 20:28
Odd as the SBA4 is more “stock like”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As of now, which brace it is is just speculation. The irony here is SB Tactical, and I think Gearhead Works are the only two companies with ATF approval letters for their specific braces.
Evel Baldgui
06-17-20, 20:50
OMFG....Enough already with the ****ing ATF and their capricious malfeasance and arbitrary rules. This is fine....oh wait, no its its not....well.maybe it is, Idk.
**** you ....as someone posted before, non compliance is the new rule. How about a real cause, Defund the ATF !
The Resistance
06-17-20, 22:03
ATFE had no intention of allowing "pistol braces" in lieu of taxes, background checks and inconveniences.
Many big manufacturers don’t sell ‘pistol braces’ with thier ‘pistols’. That have you buy them separate. Many dealers, include them. I call this a clue. Also, I take many classes at Sig Academy. sig does sell brace equipped pistols. I rember one class a sig instructor telling a student to put away his sig brace equipped Sig pistol in a carbine class ‘because you can’t shoulder it’. Another clue.
Uh, tons of big manufacturers sell them that way - but maybe you've been under a rock for past couple years.
WRT what some SIG instructor says at a class, when it comes to legality and legal advice, I rate what they say on par with what is said in gunshops on any topic. Aka, full of $hit.
We'll see what the Bureau of Retards comes up with, but they need this kind of treatment from the Legislative branch... snipped, clipped, and collared... the lot of them....
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Fbillingsgazette.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F1b%2F51bae413-8a1d-52e4-8aa2-13eb71729d22%2F4f924ac4e9bbf.image.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
US Congressman stated such. A copy of letter to Barr also out here.
Are you questioning Congressman Gaetz?
Link to letter?
So if they did reverse their decision, do you think we would be good to simply remove the brace? Would it still be a pistol at that point?
You can turn a pistol into a rifle but not a rifle into a pistol. AND, after you turn a pistol into a rifle, you can change it back to a pistol anytime also.
Just use a buffer tube for the SBA3/4 and change it like the pretty Princess changes her fancy bloomers. Daily, monthly or weekly.
Well, I'm sure they'll make an exemption.
If you walk through a large city with your face covered, a gas can in one hand, a torch in the other, and an AR pistol with an outlawed brace installed and slung across your back, you'll be justified and no longer deemed criminal.
All you other bastards though? Yeah, you guys are screwed. Do as you're told, mmm-kayyy?
Indeed, eventually we all "make the list." Vote, write, speak, contribute... fight the soft war to forestall the other. We must try harder to convince those who are still listening.
Link to letter?
It’s in post 9 above
https://gaetz.house.gov/media/hottakespress/gaetz-calls-atf-cease-plans-restricting-arm-brace-usage
Read this! Bosco of SB Tact CEO says Gaetz is reacting to old news?
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/representative-gaetz-goes-after-atfs-apparent-plans-to-restrict-pistol-braces/
It only took 3 weeks for my latest Form 1 approval. Stealing the words from a POS company, Just Do It, so they can't take anything away.
It only took 3 weeks for my latest Form 1 approval. Stealing the words from a POS company, Just Do It, so they can't take anything away.
Possessing an unlocked discreet case containing an empty rifle but loaded mags under the back seat of my truck in Alabama is a crime, but not an unlocked discreet case with my 11.3" pistol and a permit.
Andy
Possessing an unlocked discreet case containing an empty rifle but loaded mags under the back seat of my truck in Alabama is a crime, but not an unlocked discreet case with my 11.3" pistol and a permit.
Andy
That sucks. In Texas, we can roll like this. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200618/825d9f14e26b952044510a2c3981ac62.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the TTAG article.
I don’t want a review of the NFA. That only ends badly, as one item that unquestionably WOULD be changed is the price to register an SBR and suppressor; we are literally able to use devalued American dollars to pay “the same price” as individuals in the 1930’s. That would absolutely see a massive adjustment that probably would not not have balancing positive. Though it has always been on sketchy ground, I do want braces. The flexibility they (currently) allow is unmatched due to many state laws.
Also, I don’t have to ask the federal government for any sort of permission for anything to do with my pistol.
It kinda feels like we're in the first Matt Bracken novel "Enemies Foreign and Domestic".
Absolutely. Good book!
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-18-20, 10:04
Absolutely. Good book!
Except now, the secret rogue faction inside the US govt will be planting pistol braces in people's cars instead of bombs.
rubberneck
06-18-20, 11:01
ATF is debating a ban on "one manufacturers" AR brace, not all of them. It is believed that the brace in question is the SB Tactical SBA3. With that said, I am against any and all 2nd Amendment infringements.
I would have thought that it would have been the tail hook brace as that is far sturdier and more stock like than any of the SBA braces.
I would have thought that it would have been the tail hook brace as that is far sturdier and more stock like than any of the SBA braces.
Of all the braces on the market, the Tailhook works best for its function as a pistol brace. In fact, it works very well for shooting an AR one handed; the best that I have tried.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-18-20, 11:32
Of all the braces on the market, the Tailhook works best for its function as a pistol brace. In fact, it works very well for shooting an AR one handed; the best that I have tried.
And it has an approval letter from the ATF.
Thanks for the TTAG article.
I don’t want a review of the NFA. That only ends badly, as one item that unquestionably WOULD be changed is the price to register an SBR and suppressor; we are literally able to use devalued American dollars to pay “the same price” as individuals in the 1930’s. That would absolutely see a massive adjustment that probably would not not have balancing positive. Though it has always been on sketchy ground, I do want braces. The flexibility they (currently) allow is unmatched due to many state laws.
Also, I don’t have to ask the federal government for any sort of permission for anything to do with my pistol.
If they did that it should restart the debate how they can tack on a penalty tax to a constitutionally recognized right.
The whole point of the tax stamp and wait time is to keep people from acquiring this stuff. The money doesn’t even go to the IRS, it’s an ATF scheme. The Kettler case should have gone to scotus.
Making millions of felons over a pistol brace in today’s environment will go swimmingly. I’m sure of it.
If they did that it should restart the debate how they can tack on a penalty tax to a constitutionally recognized right.
The whole point of the tax stamp and wait time is to keep people from acquiring this stuff. The money doesn’t even go to the IRS, it’s an ATF scheme. The Kettler case should have gone to scotus.
Making millions of felons over a pistol brace in today’s environment will go swimmingly. I’m sure of it.
There seems to be a propensity of late to thumb one's nose at the law and the authoritahs. I see this ending up no different. It will be an add-on charge somewhere down the road. Meh.
And it has an approval letter from the ATF.
Which doesn’t really mean anything.
At the end of all this politicking nonsense the best course of action is for everyone to just stop giving shit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
titsonritz
06-18-20, 14:18
Of all the braces on the market, the Tailhook works best for its function as a pistol brace. In fact, it works very well for shooting an AR one handed; the best that I have tried.
Same here.
THIS:
Uh, tons of big manufacturers sell them that way - but maybe you've been under a rock for past couple years.
WRT what some SIG instructor says at a class, when it comes to legality and legal advice, I rate what they say on par with what is said in gunshops on any topic. Aka, full of $hit.
We'll see what the Bureau of Retards comes up with, but they need this kind of treatment from the Legislative branch... snipped, clipped, and collared... the lot of them....
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Fbillingsgazette.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F1b%2F51bae413-8a1d-52e4-8aa2-13eb71729d22%2F4f924ac4e9bbf.image.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
MountainRaven
06-18-20, 15:42
Which doesn’t really mean anything.
At the end of all this politicking nonsense the best course of action is for everyone to just stop giving shit.
Only problem there is that it takes just one person to want to screw your life up to screw your life up, when it’s something no one cares about but is still illegal.
That sucks. In Texas, we can roll like this. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200618/825d9f14e26b952044510a2c3981ac62.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can, and DO!
Diamondback
06-18-20, 20:34
Can, and DO!
Nice... here in WA, even pistols have to have a carry permit in-car because Fish & Wildlife somehow think even a little mousegun loaded means "poacher in the making."
That sucks. In Texas, we can roll like this. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200618/825d9f14e26b952044510a2c3981ac62.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We can roll like that in AL too, but the gate guards on the base get pissy.
Andy
What has been granted by "opinion" can change with a different one. We've already seen this with bump stocks.
This is why I don't have any "pistols" or NFA items.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
What has been granted by "opinion" can change with a different one. We've already seen this with bump stocks.
This is why I don't have any "pistols" or NFA items.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
That's been my choice too. NFA is tedious but it will take more than the snap of someones' fingers to make it go away.
WickedWillis
06-19-20, 10:29
Nice... here in WA, even pistols have to have a carry permit in-car because Fish & Wildlife somehow think even a little mousegun loaded means "poacher in the making."
To carry on person in the vehicle, but can't you have it in your trunk or center console (Without concealed weapons permit)?
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-19-20, 11:30
To carry on person in the vehicle, but can't you have it in your trunk or center console (Without concealed weapons permit)?
In order to be transported legally inside the vehicle loaded, you need your CPL. That's the part he left out.
You can't legally transport a loaded rifle in WA, even with a carry permit, it only covers pistols.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-19-20, 11:31
What has been granted by "opinion" can change with a different one. We've already seen this with bump stocks.
This is why I don't have any "pistols" or NFA items.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
By that argument you shouldn't own any guns because they could just say they're all illegal. I'll never understand not owning something today for a fear it might be illegal later.
Possessing an unlocked discreet case containing an empty rifle but loaded mags under the back seat of my truck in Alabama is a crime, but not an unlocked discreet case with my 11.3" pistol and a permit.
Andy
In order to be transported legally inside the vehicle loaded, you need your CPL. That's the part he left out.
You can't legally transport a loaded rifle in WA, even with a carry permit, it only covers pistols.
Same in Michigan , which obviously makes AR pistols advantageous.
I have an SBR, prefer it over the brace. But for what the ATF is trying to do to brace owners, is wrong.
But for what it's worth, if I'm going to bring a rifle with me in my car and cross state lines, I'll do it with a rifle in the legal length that's in compliance with the laws of that state and not worry about it. Asides from that, CA ain't worth traveling to, it's just ridiculous. Nevada, meh. I've seen the strip and the dam, was cool but not worth visiting to more than once. Utah, I like Zion and has friendlier gun laws, would go if the need arose. Colorado with it's mag limits, lol, no. New Mexico? You mean New California? Nope. Nope, nope, nope...
Besides, here in AZ we can have a rifle in the front seat concealed or exposed, locked and loaded even, still kosher. Don't even need a CHP. I prefer the longer barrels because of it's better terminal velocities at range.
Now that I am thinking about it, perhaps I should do an AZ only SBR with a 14.5 and get the best of both worlds.
Ever since hearing of a pistol brace and ever since buying one I have expected them to become illegal. Or the sbr part of the NFA to be removed (wishful thinking).
Many big manufacturers don’t sell ‘pistol braces’ with thier ‘pistols’. That have you buy them separate. Many dealers, include them. I call this a clue. Also, I take many classes at Sig Academy. sig does sell brace equipped pistols. I rember one class a sig instructor telling a student to put away his sig brace equipped Sig pistol in a carbine class ‘because you can’t shoulder it’. Another clue.
As a result I’m in process of doing a form one on all my ‘pistols’ that would suck with out a brace. Like all my B&T apc series guns. The fun won’t last forever.
In my state we can role in a vehicle with a loaded ‘pistol’, but not a loaded rifle. We can hunt with an over 6 round mag in a ‘pistol’, but not a rifle. To me, this will be the biggest loss.There was a point when you couldn't shoulder it. That has changed a few years ago
That sucks. In Texas, we can roll like this. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200618/825d9f14e26b952044510a2c3981ac62.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe all have weird laws. In Pa you can roll like that if it's a pistol or an SBR but not a rifle
Glock9mm1990
06-19-20, 21:38
Non-compliance is the name of the game from now on.
It’s looking that way. There comes a point where people have to say **** em, because their authority is illegitimate.
Happy that Matt is giving it to those ATF foooks with both barrels.
A lawyer friend of mine said the ATF should spend more time trying to find REAL criminals, instead of sitting in their cubicles trying to think up new ways to screw over the American public.
They [ATF] could look into the distribution of AR's by Raz in CHOP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=69&v=1Jr0ILcX9hY&feature=emb_logo
I do not see evidence of BATFE intentions to re-define pistol braces? That said: The ATF has clearly abused their powers IRT "features" of arms, and in accordance with Article VI if they knowingly continue regulating Second Amendment "features" their funding should be up for debate in the next session. And their enforcement and regulations being clear violations of Second Amendment rights render said regulations and laws null and void. Carry on.
Dirtyboy333
06-20-20, 15:27
Thanks for the info. I was wondering about Pennsylvania I was not sure where we stood. So my SB ours should be good to go?
They [ATF] could look into the distribution of AR's by Raz in CHOP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=69&v=1Jr0ILcX9hY&feature=emb_logo
Yeah, they could kit up like "operators" and go into the CHOP all "guns blazing" like Waco... I'm sure it would go over smashingly, until they got a bloody nose and called for help.
So it's far easy to sit in cubicles, scratching their a$$e$ and finding out ways to screw with law abiding citizens.
That sucks. In Texas, we can roll like this. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200618/825d9f14e26b952044510a2c3981ac62.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With a rifle, but not a pistol. Pistols must be out of view.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.