View Full Version : To the LEO on this forum: Quit
thepatriot2705
06-17-20, 15:27
It is clear that people want to live in a lawless society. It is clear your leadership will buckle under the social justice mob. The nation doesn’t deserve protection anymore. While I dislike cops as I’ve been lied to, I still respect them. No human should have to deal with murders, rapes, dead children, domestic disputes and be expected to be perfect.
I thank all the LEOs here, but it’s clear that people don’t respect you all and it’s not worth risking your life for a nation of cowards.
Unbelievable they charged that cop in Atlanta with murder.
I don't understand how anyone at this point in time would want to be an LEO.
I can assure you, me and the guys I’m close to are trying to jump ship as fast as we can. The problem we are mostly facing is finding something else to jump to amid the poor economy created because of the overreaction to the ‘rona. (At least this is my experience in my AOR.)
sidewaysil80
06-17-20, 16:40
I would love to but I’m stuck in this field now :(
Cops quitting would play right into the propaganda attack on our country.
I would imagine morale to be at an a absolute low, knowing you could be thrown under the bus at any time, for any imagined grievance.
I would encourage two days sick leave. This weekend would be perfect.
Andy
Cops quitting would play right into the propaganda attack on our country.
Sorry man. You lost me on that one the Atlanta shot was Justified, maybe not squeaky clean but still justified.It’s very clear to me that there is an attack going on. Whether the shift is just media portrayal or real life it matters not, it’s not worth it. And you’d be crazy to get into it now. There’s going to be an exodus of law-enforcement. Unfortunately there are many like myself who are at point life I can’t bail, not because I love the job, but financially and retirement age is at least insight. Remaining officers that don’t leave are going to pull back, myself included. Sorry but that’s just the truth.
BoringGuy45
06-17-20, 17:20
I don't understand how anyone at this point in time would want to be an LEO.
In 2016, after 10 years of trying to get into LE, I was hired as a correctional officer. I found I really had a knack for it but after 5 months on the job, I got hired as a police officer, which was my ultimate goal. After a brief honeymoon period with my PD, I entered FTO and found that I was a REALLY bad fit for my department. After 4 months, I resigned as I was about to fail field training, and I went back to work at the jail. I was then miserable there as it was a shitty place to work and didn't pay enough for me to pay my bills, even with OT. After a year, I left and headed back to my hometown and took a job outside of LE while I applied for police jobs in the area where I grew up, hoping I'd get a second chance. Most of the departments turned me down because my first PD didn't work out and I finally gave up trying. I'm pursuing clinical social work and in the process of getting a MSW.
My FTO didn't like me, and no matter what I did, it was never good enough. The tension and him constantly telling me how worthless I was as both a cop and a human being killed my confidence. I finally got to a point where I could barely even drive because I was so nitpicked. I was in a depression for about a year afterwards and literally felt like anyone who ever loved me was wrong; I felt there was literally not one positive thing about my existence and I was undeserving of life.
I owe my FTO a 20 year old bottle of single malt. He probably saved my life.
danattyfatty
06-17-20, 17:29
In 2016, after 10 years of trying to get into LE, I was hired as a correctional officer. I found I really had a knack for it but after 5 months on the job, I got hired as a police officer, which was my ultimate goal. After a brief honeymoon period with my PD, I entered FTO and found that I was a REALLY bad fit for my department. After 4 months, I resigned as I was about to fail field training, and I went back to work at the jail. I was then miserable there as it was a shitty place to work and didn't pay enough for me to pay my bills, even with OT. After a year, I left and headed back to my hometown and took a job outside of LE while I applied for police jobs in the area where I grew up, hoping I'd get a second chance. Most of the departments turned me down because my first PD didn't work out and I finally gave up trying. I'm pursuing clinical social work and in the process of getting a MSW.
My FTO didn't like me, and no matter what I did, it was never good enough. The tension and him constantly telling me how worthless I was as both a cop and a human being killed my confidence. I finally got to a point where I could barely even drive because I was so nitpicked. I was in a depression for about a year afterwards and literally felt like anyone who ever loved me was wrong; I felt there was literally not one positive thing about my existence and I was undeserving of life.
I owe my FTO a 20 year old bottle of single malt. He probably saved my life.
I’m sorry to hear you had such a sh!tty experience. Your FTO also deserves a HARD kick to the balls.
You don’t denigrate people because they may not be cut out for the job.
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Sorry man. You lost me on that one the Atlanta shot was Justified, maybe not squeaky clean but still justified.It’s very clear to me that there is an attack going on. Whether the shift is just media portrayal or real life it matters not, it’s not worth it. And you’d be crazy to get into it now. There’s going to be an exodus of law-enforcement. Unfortunately there are many like myself who are at point life I can’t bail, not because I love the job, but financially and retirement age is at least insight. Remaining officers that don’t leave are going to pull back, myself included. Sorry but that’s just the truth.
There will be a huge exodus soon, especially in the older police officers who have already passed retirement age. The quality of new recruits will suffer, to put it mildly. Survival instincts will constrain the officers who are willing to serve because they feel they can truly benefit society or it is a family tradition.
As the number of officers drops, the municipalities will throw money at recruits, drastically reduce required qualifications, and start issuing waivers to the recruits who can't even clear the lowered bar. Law enforcement academies will be forbidden to fail anyone, on the grounds that officers are needed and the departments will have the opportunity to correct any deficiences once the recruits become officers. All leadership positions will be filled by people of color, preferably female or gender fluid with homosexuality being a bonus.
People will re-consider allowing the Army to perform police duties, only to find they implemented all those policies 10 years before the police departments.
Andy
In 2016, after 10 years of trying to get into LE, I was hired as a correctional officer. I found I really had a knack for it but after 5 months on the job, I got hired as a police officer, which was my ultimate goal. After a brief honeymoon period with my PD, I entered FTO and found that I was a REALLY bad fit for my department. After 4 months, I resigned as I was about to fail field training, and I went back to work at the jail. I was then miserable there as it was a shitty place to work and didn't pay enough for me to pay my bills, even with OT. After a year, I left and headed back to my hometown and took a job outside of LE while I applied for police jobs in the area where I grew up, hoping I'd get a second chance. Most of the departments turned me down because my first PD didn't work out and I finally gave up trying. I'm pursuing clinical social work and in the process of getting a MSW.
My FTO didn't like me, and no matter what I did, it was never good enough. The tension and him constantly telling me how worthless I was as both a cop and a human being killed my confidence. I finally got to a point where I could barely even drive because I was so nitpicked. I was in a depression for about a year afterwards and literally felt like anyone who ever loved me was wrong; I felt there was literally not one positive thing about my existence and I was undeserving of life.
I owe my FTO a 20 year old bottle of single malt. He probably saved my life.
Damn.
I dodged a bullet too with that career, only I didn’t even make it out of the academy before I had the chief in my face telling me he didn’t want me on his crew. My foul up? I had the audacity to sprain my right MCL and slip three ribs during deftac, and asked to leave to get X-rays, not knowing they were slipped not broken. What a piece of trash I am huh? Well, good riddance to that career path. That particular agency has massive turnover too. Miserable job. Glad I’m not dealing with the mass suicide that half the country seems to want to drag us through these days.
Once I came to understand what a police officer goes through and does on a daily basis I lost any sense of why they’d want to do it.
I agree, quit. Find a job where someone respects your sacrifices. Find a job where you are not forced to enforce unconstitutional and immoral laws.
Nursing and firefighting are both public service jobs that only help people.
I saw this to street cops, not detectives. I believe we still need detectives. I believe they are still respected by most. I also know you have to be a street cop to become a detective. But if that not your goal, move one. It’s a big world full of opportunity out there.
So when everyone quits, within a month we are gonna need a LOT of new cops again. So I sorta hope some of the good ones stick it out.
I think it also depends on where you are at. Except maybe in Salt Lake City itself, where there was a little unrest and violence, I think that most people here in Utah respect the cops and support the thin blue line. I know a few cops here -- I'll have to ask them what they are seeing in regards to support from the higher ups and their cities.
I don't see how anyone would want to be a cop in a Blue state or in one of the big cities any more. No one has your back. It has got to be totally disheartening to put on the badge in the morning with that feeling.
Sorry man. You lost me on that one the Atlanta shot was Justified
What I'm saying is that whomever is behind this anti cop brainwashing of the imbecile masses would be thrilled to have cops just quitting and crime widespread.
BoringGuy45
06-17-20, 18:42
I’m sorry to hear you had such a sh!tty experience. Your FTO also deserves a HARD kick to the balls.
You don’t denigrate people because they may not be cut out for the job.
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There were so many times when I just wanted to snap and tell him to shut the f**k up if he didn't have anything positive to say...tell him that if I sucked so bad, he needed to tell me how I could do better. Anytime I asked his advice on anything, he'd say, "This job is all instinct. If you have to be taught, you can't be taught." But right at the beginning of FTO, my wife found out she was pregnant, so I figured I needed to just weather the storm, swallow my pride, and not get fired for insubordination. In the long run, I would have saved myself a lot of emotional turmoil if I had stood up to him early.
He was right about one thing: I'm not a cop. I don't have the personality for it. I was a good CO, but not a good fit for a cop. But right now, I don't want anything that involves a badge.
Right now, while I do still carry some of the scars from all that abuse, I have no regrets about that career not working out.
What I'm saying is that whomever is behind this anti cop brainwashing of the imbecile masses would be thrilled to have cops just quitting and crime widespread.
Exactly, and leave it open for what the ComDems really want- a national police force that answers only to them. That being said, I do not blame any officers changing careers in today's society. I left police work in 2004 after 11 years in patrol for more money. I make a whole lot more now than I would ever make at the PD and you could triple what I am earning now to go back and I would not.
PracticalRifleman
06-17-20, 19:10
Cops quitting would play right into the propaganda attack on our country.
This.
There is a small vocal minority.
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sandsunsurf
06-17-20, 19:18
Once the criminal Chesa Boudin was elected as district attorney of San Francisco, I wished I was a billionaire, because I would have offered every SF a couple hundred thousand to quit/retire because it’s already a lawless city and I would love to see how they really liked have no laws or law enforcement. But alas, until I start playing the lottery, I won’t be a billionaire...
Always thought have a two week walkout all over the US to give a taste to those complaining
I have been in LE for 22yrs at a larger department. Quitting is not an option due to losing my retirement and drop money that I have worked the majority of my life for. The main thing I’m aggravated with is the effect this is having on our families. I know it’s cliche to say our wives and children worry about us everyday but compound that with the non stop coverage of LE hate on the television. I am a grown man who took this job because it was my calling ever since I can remember, I’m not going to stress out about the current situation but my family is. My father and my uncle worked for the same agency as I. When I took the test to get hired there were 600+ people taking the test for the same job. The last test they had 30-40 applicants to fill a 30 person academy. This job is not looked at the same as when I was hired and I haven’t gotten a raise in many years, but to the old timers who can see the light at the end of the tunnel, it’s the only job. Stay safe out there.
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I thank G-D, I made the choice I did when I left American law enforcement to move back to Israel and go through selection.
Every once in a while, I would miss being a cop in the USA. My team mates loved the stories. But those days of missing the job have gone away.
Evel Baldgui
06-17-20, 20:06
Exactly, and leave it open for what the ComDems really want- a national police force that answers only to them.
I have eluded to this, and seen it posted as well on other threads. The end game of this 'defund the police' movement is lot more sinister, evil, and controlling than one would suspect. A National police force, ala gestapo, taking orders from an unpleasant, perhaps falsely elected ComDem administration, would be disastrous.
Business_Casual
06-17-20, 20:17
I have a little kid, Police Officers. Please, for the love of our country do not walk off to “show them what it is like” without police!
There are so many more of us that support you. We’ll figure out a way to fix this.
I can say a few words about the whole thing.
I did 30 years, when I first started I didn't give much thought of things such as benefits, leave, etc. I was just happy to be there. I recall the one summer when we were on station at the ocean front (Greekfest riots/Mobile Tactics) and I heard some older guys bitching about this and that I asked what are you guys so pissed about? One guy said "how long have you been here?" What I learned was while there are and will be internal issues, keep a positive attitude, be a good person, know your job and in your heart and mind you will do what is right. I think in spite of what we see, most people are inherently good,, both in police and non police folks. I would say to people, stay the course, do your job, there are people counting on you. Think about why you are there and let that guide you, it will be the right path.
I know it may sound simple but I always felt like the decisions I made where just that. To me they came easy, I knew what I could do, what I couldn't. I knew how to do my job and knew it well. I kept my self proficient with firearms, fitness and critical skills. Kept current on case law in regards to search and seizure, knew when to turn it on--when to turn it off.
Where it breaks down-Selection, Training and Supervision.
I have been in LE for 22yrs at a larger department. Quitting is not an option due to losing my retirement and drop money that I have worked the majority of my life for. The main thing I’m aggravated with is the effect this is having on our families. I know it’s cliche to say our wives and children worry about us everyday but compound that with the non stop coverage of LE hate on the television. I am a grown man who took this job because it was my calling ever since I can remember, I’m not going to stress out about the current situation but my family is. My father and my uncle worked for the same agency as I. When I took the test to get hired there were 600+ people taking the test for the same job. The last test they had 30-40 applicants to fill a 30 person academy. This job is not looked at the same as when I was hired and I haven’t gotten a raise in many years, but to the old timers who can see the light at the end of the tunnel, it’s the only job. Stay safe out there.
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When I applied, over 3000 for 25 slots. We had a good class, everyone stayed, passed away or moved to a federal agency but one and he was gone within a month for good reason. One thing I did see although there are mechanisms in place to protect against abuse unless someone lied, cheated, stole or committed a felony-it seems harder lately to "out process" someone.
BoringGuy45
06-17-20, 20:49
I have a little kid, Police Officers. Please, for the love of our country do not walk off to “show them what it is like” without police!
There are so many more of us that support you. We’ll figure out a way to fix this.
I have a little kid, too. But so do many cops. When you do your job with common sense and morality and it STILL could potentially land you in prison and make it so you never see your kids again, who wants to risk that?
When I took the written test we had 1200 something take the test, I was in the first class taken out of that written test.
When I went through selection, they started with 1397 lads and 1 made it.
My heart breaks when I see what is happening to the police in America.
When I took the written test we had 1200 something take the test, I was in the first class taken out of that written test.
When I went through selection, they started with 1397 lads and 1 made it.
My heart breaks when I see what is happening to the police in America.
It's becoming harder and harder to recruit folks that actually want to be a police officer for the right reasons. People with a decent life experience as well and that really helps to do the job. While if the big three above are followed, one can "mold" a good officer. Even if their life was high school, some college, no job and right into an academy. Towards the end, there was a few folks I had to ask "wtf are you doing here?" I can say the standards have been lowered in my opinion to get the numbers, sad state.
Dr. Bullseye
06-17-20, 21:12
Hey, a few big blue cities are not America. Those are shit holes anyway and you should leave anyway. But out in the country, law enforcement is still respected. This is especially true at the county sheriff level. Why not just leave the cities, change your whole life-style for the better and move to the country? County Sheriffs are elected and are usually the most important official in that county. People will respect you here. OK, you are going to take a pay cut but cost of living is lower and the improved quality of life will more than make up for it. Think about it.
I permanently resigned my LEO commission in 2012 when I moved out of state for a new airline pilot gig. Up to TODAY, not a day has gone by where I didn't kind of miss it. NOW... You couldn't pay me enough to take the badge back.
BE CAREFUL out there y'all. You CAN move to another career and do well. If an East Texas trailer park trash guy like me can, y'all can too.
I have a little kid, too. But so do many cops. When you do your job with common sense and morality and it STILL could potentially land you in prison and make it so you never see your kids again, who wants to risk that?
This. I don’t care how small the vocal minority is, or how big the silent majority is. If they really cared then they’d stop being silent. It doesn’t matter how small that loud minority is when they’re charging you with murder in a justified self-defense shooting. Not. Worth. It.
BoringGuy45
06-17-20, 22:19
This. I don’t care how small the vocal minority is, or how big the silent majority is. If they really cared then they’d stop being silent. It doesn’t matter how small that loud minority is when they’re charging you with murder in a justified self-defense shooting. Not. Worth. It.
It's not that we don't care. It's that the means of communication is totally controlled by the enemy. The power, the money, and the governments in the worst places are controlled by the enemy. We can't speak out right now without being totally destroyed and accomplishing nothing in the process. I've let all the people who I left behind in LE know that I still got their backs (yes, I even support my FTO. He was an asshole but I don't wish death upon him). I stop and talk with cops and let them know that they still have allies.
The time of reckoning will come...
LMT Shooter
06-17-20, 22:30
Hey, a few big blue cities are not America. Those are shit holes anyway and you should leave anyway. But out in the country, law enforcement is still respected. This is especially true at the county sheriff level. Why not just leave the cities, change your whole life-style for the better and move to the country? County Sheriffs are elected and are usually the most important official in that county. People will respect you here. OK, you are going to take a pay cut but cost of living is lower and the improved quality of life will more than make up for it. Think about it.
This is spot on. I work as a CO for a smaller sheriff's office, in a smaller community. Lots of respect for LE from the majority of folks in my area. If cops wanna leave the big cities, you can't blame them, but they should look at smaller departments for employment, especially if you are working on building your pension.
BoringGuy45
06-17-20, 23:14
Hey, a few big blue cities are not America. Those are shit holes anyway and you should leave anyway. But out in the country, law enforcement is still respected. This is especially true at the county sheriff level. Why not just leave the cities, change your whole life-style for the better and move to the country? County Sheriffs are elected and are usually the most important official in that county. People will respect you here. OK, you are going to take a pay cut but cost of living is lower and the improved quality of life will more than make up for it. Think about it.
I wish we had sheriffs in my state. All sheriffs offices were abolished 20 years ago and their duties were transferred to the state judicial marshals. Not that it made a huge difference; the sheriff's offices only did prisoner transport and court security and had no arrest powers. Towns that don't have a PD are covered by the State Police. Our equivalent to sheriff was chief constable, who was the head elected law enforcement officer in a town rather than a county. But their LE duties shrunk greatly in the 20th Century as the State Police grew, and in 1980, they were stripped of all their police power. I work for my town's constable office and all we do is traffic control at town events. It's fine now, because we're not cops, we don't really even dress like cops (just neon traffic control polos) and so we don't have a target on our backs, and our town is pro-LE anyway. My roundabout point is, I don't like that my state has no elected chief LEOs at either the town, county, or state level. I would much rather have deputy sheriffs than state troopers patrolling my town.
Don't give up because of these progressive socialist pieces of scum wanting you to give up. If you as an individual are not in it for the right reasons or feel it is time to go, thats your choice, but do not be manipulated into leaving the profession by these morons, please, stay and do all the good you can within the system.
Most of us out here are supporting you in any way we can, we might not have as loud of a voice and we don't have the main stream media on our side to help get our message out, but we stand together with you and are here to work together to mend this country and continue to move forward as a shining light in this world.
America is far from united right now, but we can be united once again in our future, it won't be easy and it may get very ugly, but we can never give up or it will all be lost.
After 23 years there are bad times, true. Sometimes watching the news I even think "we should all just quit." One guy once posted in here that he liked traffic accidents because he could actually help someone, and that really got me.
Also, even when muster is all negative and management pisses me off, one of the guys might come up to me with a problem I can solve, or someone will stop me at the Circle K and say something nice, or I can talk one of the guys out of doing something stupid (sometimes by sharing what happened when I did something stupid).
After eligibility the wife and I talked a lot about punching out. An opportunity came. I just couldn't do it, because I really like it. Even when I hate it, I like it. Even the guys I do not like, I will miss. The calls I do not like, I will miss. But actually helping someone out, whether they love or hate LE, call me selfish but I do love it. I'm too old for the Fire Academy.
The new commies may win but right now they are trying the hardest-we need to convince more people to speak up.
teufelhund1918
06-18-20, 05:43
In 2016, after 10 years of trying to get into LE, I was hired as a correctional officer. I found I really had a knack for it but after 5 months on the job, I got hired as a police officer, which was my ultimate goal. After a brief honeymoon period with my PD, I entered FTO and found that I was a REALLY bad fit for my department. After 4 months, I resigned as I was about to fail field training, and I went back to work at the jail. I was then miserable there as it was a shitty place to work and didn't pay enough for me to pay my bills, even with OT. After a year, I left and headed back to my hometown and took a job outside of LE while I applied for police jobs in the area where I grew up, hoping I'd get a second chance. Most of the departments turned me down because my first PD didn't work out and I finally gave up trying. I'm pursuing clinical social work and in the process of getting a MSW.
My FTO didn't like me, and no matter what I did, it was never good enough. The tension and him constantly telling me how worthless I was as both a cop and a human being killed my confidence. I finally got to a point where I could barely even drive because I was so nitpicked. I was in a depression for about a year afterwards and literally felt like anyone who ever loved me was wrong; I felt there was literally not one positive thing about my existence and I was undeserving of life.
I owe my FTO a 20 year old bottle of single malt. He probably saved my life.
What you went through was not training. It was degradation. You didn't fail him or yourself, he and his supervisors, who surely knew his ways, failed you. From my experience, people like him are they type that can't teach because they don't know their job and are pretty much scared but putting on a tough face. Sounds like he did nothing to prepare you with the proper skills to do the job.... probably because he did't have them himself. The job involves more than instinct. You have to have the knowledge of the job and people skills. Just from what you said, I can tell that he is the type that leads people into bad situations like the Floyd situation. They do nothing during their careers but cause problems. Chavin, along with the other Officer, was a FTO with a trainee. From the news, the trainees started to question what was going on and they were told to STF up. I know some folks who don't get one ounce of respect simply because of their disrespectful pissy attitude while others who consistently treat people firmly, fairly and compassionately within the rules and have a good rapport with people get things done. Couple your experience with what is going on today with these officers in the spotlight and you can see at least part of the problem. I've seen this type of thing ruin good people's lives.
As far as quitting. There have been some threats on FB that corrections is next on the BLM/ANTIFA agenda. As bad as I hate things right now, I refuse to give into these turds and I'll do my best to do the right thing.....
I'm thanked multiple times a day by the good citizens and honestly it's the only reason I'm not retiring early. It definitely sucks working for a liberal government that publicly ridicules your profession, but in the grand scheme of things, I know the public is on our side and the public officials that vocalize their displeasure are clueless about the job LEO's do. You're only hearing about the vocal anti-police idiots because the media likes to stir the pot. Media is the biggest issue in this country. Without the media, the CoronaVirus, the anti-police rhetoric, the hate on Trump, etc. wouldn't exist or would at least be a silent existence.
I have a little over 4 years left before I'm set to retire and receive a pretty healthy monthly annuity for the rest of my life from the liberal city government I work for. And there's as much overtime as I can work right now. I just hope I'm retired by time the boogaloo hits, so I can sit back and watch.
In all of this, I've found a little irony in that it seems the people calling for the abolition of or to defund the police are the very same people who the police are protecting from otherwise justifiable defense of life or property.
The_War_Wagon
06-18-20, 07:55
I have eluded to this, and seen it posted as well on other threads. The end game of this 'defund the police' movement is lot more sinister, evil, and controlling than one would suspect. A National police force, ala gestapo, taking orders from an unpleasant, perhaps falsely elected ComDem administration, would be disastrous.
Before we get to this...^^^
https://i.ibb.co/R24pFGX/obama-youth.jpg
There will be a huge exodus soon, especially in the older police officers who have already passed retirement age. The quality of new recruits will suffer, to put it mildly. Survival instincts will constrain the officers who are willing to serve because they feel they can truly benefit society or it is a family tradition.
As the number of officers drops, the municipalities will throw money at recruits, drastically reduce required qualifications, and start issuing waivers to the recruits who can't even clear the lowered bar. Law enforcement academies will be forbidden to fail anyone, on the grounds that officers are needed and the departments will have the opportunity to correct any deficiences once the recruits become officers. All leadership positions will be filled by people of color, preferably female or gender fluid with homosexuality being a bonus.
We're gonna have THIS ^^^, and neither one will be funny.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pvuM-74R80Q/UPh4yYUa0NI/AAAAAAAABE4/jzGSOxlO3D0/s1600/policeacademyremake.jpg
Last night I did medical coverage for our cops that were protecting an area from this new wave of nonsense downtown. There were a few trouble makers, including people yelling bigoted slurs at us(really?). Quite a few people were just curious about what was going on and took pictures, or asked us questions. But something else surprised me. There were a lot of people, walking home or otherwise going about there lives, that thanked us, or told us we were doing a good job. One lady even made a point to walk up and go down the sidewalk to give us all high fives (prolly has the rona, lol). These people outnumbered the haters and were from a variety of demographics. If I had to guess, probably more were black than white.
Some areas may still be salvageable. It probably helps that we don’t seem to have a reputation for violent interactions or racial policing here.
I don't understand how anyone at this point in time would want to be an LEO.
Neither do I but I sure as hell don't want them to quit. I value civil society too much and the thin blue line is not a metaphor.
We citizens need to find a way to step up and support LE better.
How did last night go in Atlanta news doesn’t really seem to want to give it too much attention?
Did day shift show up?
Whiskey_Bravo
06-18-20, 09:35
How did last night go in Atlanta news doesn’t really seem to want to give it too much attention?
Did day shift show up?
Not sure but zone 6 scanner is really quite this morning. Not sure what to compare it to historically though.
Averageman
06-18-20, 10:08
Neither do I but I sure as hell don't want them to quit. I value civil society too much and the thin blue line is not a metaphor.
We citizens need to find a way to step up and support LE better.
Ironically if you look at the post Civil War South during early reconstruction, there simply wasn't enough Law Enforcement to keep the peace. This lack of numbers, an onerous Federal Government enforcing unwanted regulations and a lot of post war hate resulted in vigilante groups.
I believe this was what the Civil Rights Movement was organized to stop?
So why are we one hundred and fifty years later reducing the numbers of law enforcement at the same time we are seeing the early uprisings in vigilantism and rebellion? Are we sliding in to what may be a un declared civil war by mid summer?
How much push until push back?
How long until the lynchings start...again?
PracticalRifleman
06-18-20, 10:10
Ironically if you look at the post Civil War South during early reconstruction, there simply wasn't enough Law Enforcement to keep the peace. This lack of numbers, an onerous Federal Government enforcing unwanted regulations and a lot of post war hate resulted in vigilante groups.
I believe this was what the Civil Rights Movement was organized to stop?
So why are we one hundred and fifty years later reducing the numbers of law enforcement at the same time we are seeing the early uprisings in vigilantism and rebellion? Are we sliding in to what may be a un declared civil war by mid summer?
How much push until push back?
How long until the lynchings start...again?
It’s by design, my friend.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
joedirt199
06-18-20, 10:20
There is still lots of support out there for law enforcement. I can't go to a restaurant to eat lunch and not have someone pay for my meal. I try to turn them down but they are persistent. So I pay it forward to the next person in line or give what I would have paid as a tip to the waitress. We have been given snacks, gift cards, packs of water, etc from people showing their support.
The real hit will be at the academy level as people will stop applying. More bad cops will get through as depts will need bodies and lower their standards for new applicants. Good cops will quit early to find other employment.
Ironically if you look at the post Civil War South during early reconstruction, there simply wasn't enough Law Enforcement to keep the peace. This lack of numbers, an onerous Federal Government enforcing unwanted regulations and a lot of post war hate resulted in vigilante groups.
I believe this was what the Civil Rights Movement was organized to stop?
So why are we one hundred and fifty years later reducing the numbers of law enforcement at the same time we are seeing the early uprisings in vigilantism and rebellion? Are we sliding in to what may be a un declared civil war by mid summer?
How much push until push back?
How long until the lynchings start...again?
And Grant had to send troops several times to get it under control, and developed a task force to deal with the Klan, and was quite effective at it. Once he left office, the will and interest to continue what he and Lincoln started died and would not be resurrected for 100+ years with the civil Rights movement.
It’s by design, my friend.
It certainly feels that way.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-18-20, 10:29
The real hit will be at the academy level as people will stop applying. More bad cops will get through as depts will need bodies and lower their standards for new applicants. Good cops will quit early to find other employment.
This is my fear as well.
Good policing will simply happen where it is wanted, probably in the more conservative states/rural areas. Police will be wanted and honored there. Big liberal cities will go down the toilet pretty fast if they carry out their plans. The police there will begin to migrate away slowly but surely, just like conservatives migrate to freer states. If the police can't really migrate to better states or jobs then they'll probably be much less likely to put their life on the line when needed. If I had to worry about going to jail everytime I pulled my gun, I don't think I would be inclined to put myself in situations where I had to pull it.
I really wanted to pursue LE for a long time, and ultimately took a different career path for better money. In light of everything going on these days, i'm glad i did. I was able to get on the local Sheriff Search and Rescue Team for my county 5 years ago, and that allows me to keep my full time job while still being able to serve the community in a positive way. Our team is very active, and for me, it's a solid compromise.
I have many friends in LE, even outside of the people I work with at the Sheriff's Office, and they are great people, so it's sad to see all of the hate and pressure placed on them these days. I've already seen many ditching law enforcement for other career paths, and i'm sure recruiting is going to take a massive hit. At some point people will realize how good we had it.
joedirt199
06-18-20, 11:53
I have been playing the lotto pretty religiously in the hopes of telling all this shit to piss up a rope and plant me and mine in the middle of a big property away from everybody. Better chance if I atleast buy a ticket than if I don't play at all.
I have eluded to this, and seen it posted as well on other threads. The end game of this 'defund the police' movement is lot more sinister, evil, and controlling than one would suspect. A National police force, ala gestapo, taking orders from an unpleasant, perhaps falsely elected ComDem administration, would be disastrous.
Classic Cloward-Piven strategy. Overwhelm the system to get everyone fed up with all the crime so that they will wholeheartedly welcome a tyrannical regime to re-establish "law and order".
We’ll figure out a way to fix this.
No we won't because we have no balls. While they burn down cities and tear down monuments, arrest cops who don't tow the party line we sit on here asking for cops not to quit. See the difference? They do, we talk. This is why we will never fix it. It will be "fixed" but not by us, and not to our liking.
Neither do I but I sure as hell don't want them to quit. I value civil society too much and the thin blue line is not a metaphor.
We citizens need to find a way to step up and support LE better.
Maybe it's time we get a little un-civil?
Classic Cloward-Piven strategy. Overwhelm the system to get everyone fed up with all the crime so that they will wholeheartedly welcome a tyrannical regime to re-establish "law and order".
Bingo! That's the problem. On the one hand I don't mind cops not showing up work for to give the cities a taste of their own medicine. Sure innocent people will suffer, but so too will be the hoards that want to abolish the police. The only people who won't be effected by this are the politicians who sow the seeds of this stupidity and in that, lies the problem. Ideally, the cops that should walk off the job are not the ones patrolling the streets, but the ones providing protection for the mayors, governors, DAs, congressmen and senators.
Nightvisionary
06-18-20, 12:50
I don't see LE quitting in any appreciable numbers. It is very difficult to trade the status, pay, and benefits for uncertainty. Years ago sure I worked with a handful of officer's with an MBA's or law degrees here and there but that was pretty rare. The average line officer simply has no easy alternative career path with a criminal justice degree/LE resume considering that tens of millions of Americans have suddenly found themselves out of work. What we are seeing is perhaps the beginning of a much needed "Industry overhaul" to adjust a mindset and training curriculum of the last 50 years. Perhaps military terms like Violence of Action were best left on the battlefield rather than doctrine for LE patrolling American streets. Nobody likes change but I think the most adaptable will excel and may appreciate the changes once the dust settles.
Averageman
06-18-20, 13:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAcSc7HXQ6E
The country is divided, we have left-right, but more important most people left and right feel a major disconnect with the people in power in DC. As we progress down the drain, we start showing classical signs of a country that is going to go off the rails big time.
But what to do about it?
At this point in time, I see no course of action other than make sure we keep as many Marxist as possible out of office in November.
But after the election, I believe things are really going to explode with violence across the country. We can see that just like real estate one of the key factors to having the least amount of hassle will be location, location, location.
We have seen how an insane DA in Atlanta, has reacted this week. Now put yourself in a situation in Atlanta or similar blue city and you have to use deadly force to protect yourself against a group of BLM, that are stomping you to the ground for the crime of being white.
Maybe it's time we get a little un-civil?
Like any dynamic confrontation, it can and will go in directions you don't control as history had demonstrated over and over and over. The North expected the the troubles with the South to be short lived for example, and "the numbers" suggested that would be the case. 600,000 dead later...
War sucks, civil wars make all other wars look tame by comparison.
Once you open the bottle, there's no putting the Jeanie back and what starts out a perfectly nice little conflict develops into a monster with it's own life and will.
Being we can't control what ends up being "a little un-civil" to teach some A holes a lesson they may deserve into something legit ugly, I'll still pass if possible.
If not, then do it with overwhelming force old school, without lube and done.
titsonritz
06-18-20, 13:21
There is no way in hell I'd work for one these big backstabbing blue cities, no way. I say let a couple burn to ground and then maybe others will pull their heads out of their asses.
Averageman
06-18-20, 13:36
There is no way in hell I'd work for one these big backstabbing blue cities, no way. I say let a couple burn to ground and then maybe others will pull their heads out of their asses.
That this stuff happening in Blue States with decades of continued Blue Leadership should be no irony.
You either support the best Law Enforcement you can get and support continued training to prevent these things as much as possible. If you don't these things happen from lack of training and job burnout, it's human nature.
You start prosecuting DA's for over reach and over charging these crimes.
The idea of national standards for Law Enforcement really isn't a bad idea.
And I will just throw this out here.
You're not going to win the fight if your Officers can't use a manual choke hold or throw a fist. Your waiting for enough back up to dog pile the guy otherwise and that's going to take time the Officers involved simply don't have.
There is a giant difference between kneeling on my neck after I am in custody and putting me in a choke hold to gain control and custody.
Welcome to the purge man.
gunrunner505
06-18-20, 13:54
Cops quitting is exactly what the left wants. They want to make the job of policing so unsavory to the type of person who would typically want the job that those people go and do something else. Now there is a void that needs to be filled and it will be filled by lefties. Liberal activist judges coupled with liberal activist police officers. It’s a commies wet dream.
Roving bands of brown shirts coming to a town near you. Make sure your papers are in order.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That this stuff happening in Blue States with decades of continued Blue Leadership should be no irony.
You either support the best Law Enforcement you can get and support continued training to prevent these things as much as possible. If you don't these things happen from lack of training and job burnout, it's human nature.
You start prosecuting DA's for over reach and over charging these crimes.
The idea of national standards for Law Enforcement really isn't a bad idea.
And I will just throw this out here.
You're not going to win the fight if your Officers can't use a manual choke hold or throw a fist. Your waiting for enough back up to dog pile the guy otherwise and that's going to take time the Officers involved simply don't have.
There is a giant difference between kneeling on my neck after I am in custody and putting me in a choke hold to gain control and custody.
Welcome to the purge man.
What about the latest incident suggests anything to do with lack of training? Ground combatives and weapon retention perhaps depending on how it went down but I’m still failing to see how anything about this is a bad shoot. I mean expecting LEOs to take a taser dart to the eye is asinine. I say that in general.
As to the national standard it exists via constitutional law and case law precedent. What you’re suggesting sounds more like having a national policy governing the use of force as a continuum, which it’s not nor should it be.
ETA:
If I’m being frank I’d argue the notion of nationwide systemic police “brutality” is an absolute fallacy. Are there instances of excessive force, general **** ups, and mistakes that should not be made? Absolutely and as such there needs to be accountability in these instances. But so many of these perceived issues stem from an abysmal understanding by the American population at large, of what use of force actually is under the law and how/what violence in real life actually is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Grand58742
06-18-20, 14:12
My take as a 20 year LEO (military LEO, but still LEO)
Things have reached a breaking point. For far too long (both inside looking out and now outside looking in) things have gotten steadily worse for anyone wanting to choose that career path. Some of it is out of their control, some is well within their control.
Police by and large need to refocus on community and people first; not their political masters. They work for the people, not the government. Police should be the front line of defense against government overreach, not the action arm of the government. "You want someone to enforce social distancing because you're overreacting to a new virus? Have you considered sending out the City/County/State healthcare workers to do that?"
Enough of enforcing stupid traffic laws created by some idiot politician that has too much time on their hands. Post a speed limit and let the traffic go. We have accident investigators and civil courts for at fault accidents and things of that nature. if people are stupid enough to drive at 130 MPH when they can't control the car, by all mean, drive that way and kill yourself. If they hurt someone else or destroy property, hold them in account of the law. But enough speed traps looking for nothing else but to raise revenue or "you ran a stop sign so I get to search your vehicle."
Enough of enforcing (again) ignorant ass codes made up by (again) some useless politician. If it doesn't affect anyone else, stay the hell out of their life. We have way too many laws on the books already.
"Oh, someone's outside your designated First Amendment Zone and protesting on public grounds? Are they still within the United States? Because this whole damn country is a First Amendment Zone."
"Oh, you're angry the people showed up at your city council meeting and are protesting the ignorant fines you implemented without allowing the people a say and raised their taxes? Deal with it, the people have a right to speak out against their government when they feel they are being wronged."
And enough of saying "it's for safety" or "it's the rules." Stupid laws are stupid laws. Stop enforcing them and tell the politicians that you aren't going to enforce them. The "it's for your safety" has become so extreme, I don't even know if there's anything "unsafe" any more.
Go back to only responding to and investigating true crimes against people and property. "Hi Karen, the couple across the street is arguing again? Did he hit her or did she hit him? No? Sounds like that thing called "marriage" to me. Otherwise, it's not a police matter, Karen, stop calling 911 to report couples arguing."
"Hi Karen, is the neighbor's dog shitting in your yard again? Have you talked to them instead of calling the police? Maybe putting up a fence would work wonders for that situation..."
Real crimes that truly affect people. No more, no less. And become familiar with the people in your communities especially in the big cities. "Hi, I'm Officer Starsky and this is Officer Hutch. We're going to be assigned to your neighborhood and wanted to introduce ourselves. Here's a card with my number, my IBM and my supervisor's number. Please don't hesitate to call me direct if something happens. I hope to see you around."
Get out on foot and walk the streets, play ball with the kids, wave to people mowing their yards, get to know business owners, help the old lady carry groceries to her door. Become the helpful icon in the community rather than the hated henchman. Are some of the residents still going to be a-holes? Yeah, but the more ingrained one is with the community, the better chances they have of success. Work for the community and again, not for the political masters.
Get the hell rid of police unions that protect those who need to be fired and hire someone who can be an asset.
Most importantly, police need to straight up start telling politicians "no." Each and every police chief, sheriff and constable needs to be voted on by the people. Period. Enough political appointments. Best qualified for the job gets the job. Police should not be beholden to local or state politicians for their job. They need to be beholden to the people.
On the flip side of that equation...
Pay LEOs a decent wage for working in "trouble" areas. If they volunteer to work those areas, by all means, reward them for trying to make a difference.
Stop demonizing and painting every cop with a broad brush when the actions of one (or a few) are seen in a bad light. 95% of cops mean well and I believe at one point legitimately wanted to make a difference.
On that same token, LEOs are held to the same standard than the community if they commit crimes. No more, no less. None of this "held to the highest standard possible" extremist nonsense. Nor "well, the union says I can't fire them yet because I don't have a proper paper trail." They break the laws they are supposed to enforce they go through the same criminal system as everyone else. They use excessive force? They get charged the same as any normal person.
Tell your local politicians to stop making the police the bad guys. They protect and serve the people, not whatever the politicians decide is right or wrong. If they blow you off, vote their ass out. Period.
They are in a tough position being made far worse by the media as well as the idiots among the ranks that should have been gotten rid of years ago. Each and ever cop knows the good ones and the bad ones. Stop demonizing them where they are forced surround their fellow officers because there is no support on the outside. Take away the "us versus them" mentality that has become a chasm in the lives of every person who's ever worn a badge.
And just end the "war on drugs" for crying out loud.
Like any dynamic confrontation, it can and will go in directions you don't control as history had demonstrated over and over and over. The North expected the the troubles with the South to be short lived for example, and "the numbers" suggested that would be the case. 600,000 dead later...
War sucks, civil wars make all other wars look tame by comparison.
Once you open the bottle, there's no putting the Jeanie back and what starts out a perfectly nice little conflict develops into a monster with it's own life and will.
Being we can't control what ends up being "a little un-civil" to teach some A holes a lesson they may deserve into something legit ugly, I'll still pass if possible.
If not, then do it with overwhelming force old school, without lube and done.
Maybe my view is myopic, maybe I am missing something but I just don't see this slide turning around or slowing.
The Left has the media and the angry mob and they won't stop until we are all Winston Smith, living in Oceania, scrounging around for razor blades. The war on police is just one front, and they will win it, mark my words. We either accept the inevitable, that we will be disarmed, and rolled into a socialist state/world order or it gets really ugly for a while. I doubt you want to drink Victory Gin anymore than I do, but do you really see this going any other way? I just don't want the slow burn, I'm not getting any younger and I don't want to have to deal with a civil war at 50, know what I mean?
titsonritz
06-18-20, 15:37
My take as a 20 year LEO (military LEO, but still LEO)
Things have reached a breaking point. For far too long (both inside looking out and now outside looking in) things have gotten steadily worse for anyone wanting to choose that career path. Some of it is out of their control, some is well within their control.
Police by and large need to refocus on community and people first; not their political masters. They work for the people, not the government. Police should be the front line of defense against government overreach, not the action arm of the government. "You want someone to enforce social distancing because you're overreacting to a new virus? Have you considered sending out the City/County/State healthcare workers to do that?"
Enough of enforcing stupid traffic laws created by some idiot politician that has too much time on their hands. Post a speed limit and let the traffic go. We have accident investigators and civil courts for at fault accidents and things of that nature. if people are stupid enough to drive at 130 MPH when they can't control the car, by all mean, drive that way and kill yourself. If they hurt someone else or destroy property, hold them in account of the law. But enough speed traps looking for nothing else but to raise revenue or "you ran a stop sign so I get to search your vehicle."
Enough of enforcing (again) ignorant ass codes made up by (again) some useless politician. If it doesn't affect anyone else, stay the hell out of their life. We have way too many laws on the books already.
"Oh, someone's outside your designated First Amendment Zone and protesting on public grounds? Are they still within the United States? Because this whole damn country is a First Amendment Zone."
"Oh, you're angry the people showed up at your city council meeting and are protesting the ignorant fines you implemented without allowing the people a say and raised their taxes? Deal with it, the people have a right to speak out against their government when they feel they are being wronged."
And enough of saying "it's for safety" or "it's the rules." Stupid laws are stupid laws. Stop enforcing them and tell the politicians that you aren't going to enforce them. The "it's for your safety" has become so extreme, I don't even know if there's anything "unsafe" any more.
Go back to only responding to and investigating true crimes against people and property. "Hi Karen, the couple across the street is arguing again? Did he hit her or did she hit him? No? Sounds like that thing called "marriage" to me. Otherwise, it's not a police matter, Karen, stop calling 911 to report couples arguing."
"Hi Karen, is the neighbor's dog shitting in your yard again? Have you talked to them instead of calling the police? Maybe putting up a fence would work wonders for that situation..."
Real crimes that truly affect people. No more, no less. And become familiar with the people in your communities especially in the big cities. "Hi, I'm Officer Starsky and this is Officer Hutch. We're going to be assigned to your neighborhood and wanted to introduce ourselves. Here's a card with my number, my IBM and my supervisor's number. Please don't hesitate to call me direct if something happens. I hope to see you around."
Get out on foot and walk the streets, play ball with the kids, wave to people mowing their yards, get to know business owners, help the old lady carry groceries to her door. Become the helpful icon in the community rather than the hated henchman. Are some of the residents still going to be a-holes? Yeah, but the more ingrained one is with the community, the better chances they have of success. Work for the community and again, not for the political masters.
Get the hell rid of police unions that protect those who need to be fired and hire someone who can be an asset.
Most importantly, police need to straight up start telling politicians "no." Each and every police chief, sheriff and constable needs to be voted on by the people. Period. Enough political appointments. Best qualified for the job gets the job. Police should not be beholden to local or state politicians for their job. They need to be beholden to the people.
On the flip side of that equation...
Pay LEOs a decent wage for working in "trouble" areas. If they volunteer to work those areas, by all means, reward them for trying to make a difference.
Stop demonizing and painting every cop with a broad brush when the actions of one (or a few) are seen in a bad light. 95% of cops mean well and I believe at one point legitimately wanted to make a difference.
On that same token, LEOs are held to the same standard than the community if they commit crimes. No more, no less. None of this "held to the highest standard possible" extremist nonsense. Nor "well, the union says I can't fire them yet because I don't have a proper paper trail." They break the laws they are supposed to enforce they go through the same criminal system as everyone else. They use excessive force? They get charged the same as any normal person.
Tell your local politicians to stop making the police the bad guys. They protect and serve the people, not whatever the politicians decide is right or wrong. If they blow you off, vote their ass out. Period.
They are in a tough position being made far worse by the media as well as the idiots among the ranks that should have been gotten rid of years ago. Each and ever cop knows the good ones and the bad ones. Stop demonizing them where they are forced surround their fellow officers because there is no support on the outside. Take away the "us versus them" mentality that has become a chasm in the lives of every person who's ever worn a badge.
And just end the "war on drugs" for crying out loud.
IMO this would solve 90%, if not more, of the bullshit.
Dude, you’re making entirely too much sense to be talking on the internet. Tell Karen to STFU, stop the war on drugs, end using police for revenue would go a long way. “Serve and Protect” policing would be awesome. Some places are already doing this to a degree, but could always get better, or better paid. Some places are doing the opposite.
My take as a 20 year LEO (military LEO, but still LEO)
Things have reached a breaking point. For far too long (both inside looking out and now outside looking in) things have gotten steadily worse for anyone wanting to choose that career path. Some of it is out of their control, some is well within their control.
Police by and large need to refocus on community and people first; not their political masters. They work for the people, not the government. Police should be the front line of defense against government overreach, not the action arm of the government. "You want someone to enforce social distancing because you're overreacting to a new virus? Have you considered sending out the City/County/State healthcare workers to do that?"
Enough of enforcing stupid traffic laws created by some idiot politician that has too much time on their hands. Post a speed limit and let the traffic go. We have accident investigators and civil courts for at fault accidents and things of that nature. if people are stupid enough to drive at 130 MPH when they can't control the car, by all mean, drive that way and kill yourself. If they hurt someone else or destroy property, hold them in account of the law. But enough speed traps looking for nothing else but to raise revenue or "you ran a stop sign so I get to search your vehicle."
Enough of enforcing (again) ignorant ass codes made up by (again) some useless politician. If it doesn't affect anyone else, stay the hell out of their life. We have way too many laws on the books already.
"Oh, someone's outside your designated First Amendment Zone and protesting on public grounds? Are they still within the United States? Because this whole damn country is a First Amendment Zone."
"Oh, you're angry the people showed up at your city council meeting and are protesting the ignorant fines you implemented without allowing the people a say and raised their taxes? Deal with it, the people have a right to speak out against their government when they feel they are being wronged."
And enough of saying "it's for safety" or "it's the rules." Stupid laws are stupid laws. Stop enforcing them and tell the politicians that you aren't going to enforce them. The "it's for your safety" has become so extreme, I don't even know if there's anything "unsafe" any more.
Go back to only responding to and investigating true crimes against people and property. "Hi Karen, the couple across the street is arguing again? Did he hit her or did she hit him? No? Sounds like that thing called "marriage" to me. Otherwise, it's not a police matter, Karen, stop calling 911 to report couples arguing."
"Hi Karen, is the neighbor's dog shitting in your yard again? Have you talked to them instead of calling the police? Maybe putting up a fence would work wonders for that situation..."
Real crimes that truly affect people. No more, no less. And become familiar with the people in your communities especially in the big cities. "Hi, I'm Officer Starsky and this is Officer Hutch. We're going to be assigned to your neighborhood and wanted to introduce ourselves. Here's a card with my number, my IBM and my supervisor's number. Please don't hesitate to call me direct if something happens. I hope to see you around."
Get out on foot and walk the streets, play ball with the kids, wave to people mowing their yards, get to know business owners, help the old lady carry groceries to her door. Become the helpful icon in the community rather than the hated henchman. Are some of the residents still going to be a-holes? Yeah, but the more ingrained one is with the community, the better chances they have of success. Work for the community and again, not for the political masters.
Get the hell rid of police unions that protect those who need to be fired and hire someone who can be an asset.
Most importantly, police need to straight up start telling politicians "no." Each and every police chief, sheriff and constable needs to be voted on by the people. Period. Enough political appointments. Best qualified for the job gets the job. Police should not be beholden to local or state politicians for their job. They need to be beholden to the people.
On the flip side of that equation...
Pay LEOs a decent wage for working in "trouble" areas. If they volunteer to work those areas, by all means, reward them for trying to make a difference.
Stop demonizing and painting every cop with a broad brush when the actions of one (or a few) are seen in a bad light. 95% of cops mean well and I believe at one point legitimately wanted to make a difference.
On that same token, LEOs are held to the same standard than the community if they commit crimes. No more, no less. None of this "held to the highest standard possible" extremist nonsense. Nor "well, the union says I can't fire them yet because I don't have a proper paper trail." They break the laws they are supposed to enforce they go through the same criminal system as everyone else. They use excessive force? They get charged the same as any normal person.
Tell your local politicians to stop making the police the bad guys. They protect and serve the people, not whatever the politicians decide is right or wrong. If they blow you off, vote their ass out. Period.
They are in a tough position being made far worse by the media as well as the idiots among the ranks that should have been gotten rid of years ago. Each and ever cop knows the good ones and the bad ones. Stop demonizing them where they are forced surround their fellow officers because there is no support on the outside. Take away the "us versus them" mentality that has become a chasm in the lives of every person who's ever worn a badge.
And just end the "war on drugs" for crying out loud.
It’ll be dark soon. Everybody stay safe out there.
That this stuff happening in Blue States with decades of continued Blue Leadership should be no irony.
You either support the best Law Enforcement you can get and support continued training to prevent these things as much as possible. If you don't these things happen from lack of training and job burnout, it's human nature.
You start prosecuting DA's for over reach and over charging these crimes.
The idea of national standards for Law Enforcement really isn't a bad idea.
And I will just throw this out here.
You're not going to win the fight if your Officers can't use a manual choke hold or throw a fist. Your waiting for enough back up to dog pile the guy otherwise and that's going to take time the Officers involved simply don't have.
There is a giant difference between kneeling on my neck after I am in custody and putting me in a choke hold to gain control and custody.
Welcome to the purge man.
I'll throw this out there. There should be specific criminal statutes for the bad conduct of DA's AND judges. :big_boss:
SomeOtherGuy
06-18-20, 16:46
I'll throw this out there. There should be specific criminal statutes for the bad conduct of DA's AND judges. :big_boss:
Who exactly is going to bring those charges and hear those cases? Conflict of interest much?
Who watches the Watchmen?
Grand58742
06-18-20, 16:49
I'll throw this out there. There should be specific criminal statutes for the bad conduct of DA's AND judges. :big_boss:
I'm all about cops arresting politicians for making up stupid rules.
joedirt199
06-18-20, 17:22
There is a governing agency that looks into judges and attorney behavior but has little affect on their jobs as we have had attorneys caught with stolen guns, sex and drugs as payment and are still practicing law. Remember the people that fill those jobs most likely came from the same levels as their people they are investigating. Hell one judge out of 12 in our courthouse refuses to come back to work till they have a vaccine for covid. He has been off since april and is getting paid his six figure salary to stay home in fear. These are elected state level judges.
Maybe my view is myopic, maybe I am missing something but I just don't see this slide turning around or slowing.
The Left has the media and the angry mob and they won't stop until we are all Winston Smith, living in Oceania, scrounging around for razor blades. The war on police is just one front, and they will win it, mark my words. We either accept the inevitable, that we will be disarmed, and rolled into a socialist state/world order or it gets really ugly for a while. I doubt you want to drink Victory Gin anymore than I do, but do you really see this going any other way? I just don't want the slow burn, I'm not getting any younger and I don't want to have to deal with a civil war at 50, know what I mean?
As I just turned 55, I do...
Averageman
06-18-20, 17:29
As I just turned 55, I do...
As I just turned 59, I do...
There is no way in hell I'd work for one these big backstabbing blue cities, no way. I say let a couple burn to ground and then maybe others will pull their heads out of their asses.
That is essentially the heart of the matter. If the powers that be don't have your back, nobody has your back. There are locations that have essentially sacrificed their law enforcement community in the hopes of retaining their political positions. Everyone in those locations is a sacrificial pawn and a target for criminals who now KNOW nobody in government is going to protect them.
There will be collateral damage and people stuck behind the lines that don't deserve any of this, but the last line of defense literally has been removed from the board.
C'mon guys, you're all still youngsters. I turned 60 in February, yet two months after my birthday, I'm roping 2000 lbs Bulls for branding. Whether it's a fast AH-6J Little Bird or a fast ranch horse, it's all in the mind. If it all goes to Hell, I'm game for a little action.....
https://i.imgur.com/WAmkEj6h.jpg
C'mon guys, you're all still youngsters. I turned 60 in February, yet two months after my birthday, I'm roping 2000 lbs Bulls for branding. Whether it's a fast AH-6J Little Bird or a fast ranch horse, it's all in the mind. If it all goes to Hell, I'm game for a little action.....
https://i.imgur.com/WAmkEj6h.jpg
Where are your masks??? And your social distancing needs work. Tsk, tsk.
Where are your masks??? And your social distancing needs work. Tsk, tsk.
Masks are for Halloween or ANTIFA. The County my ranch borders on the north side has 695 people in 2126 square miles, and 1 confirmed COVID case. No deaths.
My take as a 20 year LEO (military LEO, but still LEO)
CONDENSED = LOTS OF GOOD IDEAS.
I agree with all of that.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of venues where those points get labeled as hating police, hating authority, sovereign citizen and so on which are just indicators of how many problems we are facing.
Belmont31R
06-19-20, 02:34
People need to stop acting like the big shithole cities are representative of the entire country. Even in 'good times' those places have to be horrible to be a police officer.
Every place I've lived for the last 10+ years has been republican from from the mayor, governor, House/Senate reps, and sheriff. Places like this are not going to treat their officers like sacrificial lambs to the communist mobs. If you look at how people vote per county most of the country is red. Go find a department in these areas and you'll get treated better without inner city scumbags to deal with.
Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, NYC, Chicago, etc have to all be giant NO-GO's if you have any desire to be treated as a normal human even amongst the regular citizenry. Police officer? **** no.
I would also like to see a massive and very public exodus of protective security for government officials. Regardless of government, contract, or private security. Its un-American to collect a paycheck to protect people like pelosi or any other treasonous trash that is destroying America. Protecting them is not only unprofessional, its a disgrace to the profession and equivalent to selling drugs to kids.
Nightvisionary
06-19-20, 09:34
I would also like to see a massive and very public exodus of protective security for government officials. Regardless of government, contract, or private security. Its un-American to collect a paycheck to protect people like pelosi or any other treasonous trash that is destroying America. Protecting them is not only unprofessional, its a disgrace to the profession and equivalent to selling drugs to kids.
The world will never run out of people willing to sell drugs to kids so it's all wishful thinking.
BoringGuy45
06-19-20, 10:02
I would also like to see a massive and very public exodus of protective security for government officials. Regardless of government, contract, or private security. Its un-American to collect a paycheck to protect people like pelosi or any other treasonous trash that is destroying America. Protecting them is not only unprofessional, its a disgrace to the profession and equivalent to selling drugs to kids.
Agreed. Protection details need to walk off, tell these mayors and governors that they're on their own. If they want to protect themselves, they can go buy guns and protect themselves the way the peasants do. And, if they're in a place like NYC, the PD needs to tell the mayor that they're going to have to go through the permit process like everybody else...and then deny the politicians their permits on the grounds that they didn't demonstrate a great enough need for a permit, and then tell them, "now you know how it feels!"
The world will never run out of people willing to sell drugs to kids so it's all wishful thinking.
Sadly you are correct.
21 years into my career and I was told Monday that I’m done. Being put out to pasture, to many injuries from to many scuffles over the years. QME said if I put you back to work you’ll be in a fight in 3 days and be right back to square one. It was a good run, now it’s time to figure out what to do next. I suppose it’s a blessing in disguise.
21 years into my career and I was told Monday that I’m done. Being put out to pasture, to many injuries from to many scuffles over the years. QME said if I put you back to work you’ll be in a fight in 3 days and be right back to square one. It was a good run, now it’s time to figure out what to do next. I suppose it’s a blessing in disguise.Thank you for your service, prayers for your transition
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I’ve started playing PowerBall as my backup retirement plan... the odds of striking the jackpot are way better than the odds of me making it to the 20 year mark lol
They are far louder than numerous. Amplified by the MSM and a few bad politicians.
Stop giving them so much power. Even the leftest side of the Dem party wasn't big enough to nominate Bernie.
LMT Shooter
06-21-20, 11:39
21 years into my career and I was told Monday that I’m done. Being put out to pasture, to many injuries from to many scuffles over the years. QME said if I put you back to work you’ll be in a fight in 3 days and be right back to square one. It was a good run, now it’s time to figure out what to do next. I suppose it’s a blessing in disguise.
Thank you for your service, and may your pasture be truly green. And stay healthy.
21 years into my career and I was told Monday that I’m done. Being put out to pasture, to many injuries from to many scuffles over the years. QME said if I put you back to work you’ll be in a fight in 3 days and be right back to square one. It was a good run, now it’s time to figure out what to do next. I suppose it’s a blessing in disguise.
Thank you for your service. If ever there is a time to get out, it is now. Your knowledge of psychology and insight into human behavior will give you an edge in whatever you find yourself doing. I would say good luck, but we make our own luck in life. Go and make your own luck.
A friend of mine who was my trainee years ago just suffered a complete hamstring tear last week.
The good news is that he desperately needed a vacation. The COVID-19 craziness was bad enough, but the solid citizens were still waving at us and being polite and generally friendly. In a week's time, it changed to all the youngsters flipping us off and sneers from a lot of people over the age of 30. He got smeared in the papers as a brutal racist thug cop because he had two legal, justified uses of force 7 years apart that-surprise- involved 2 males from the predominant minority group in the area. The paper decided to run a new article about him, because Floyd. Total smear job using small kernels of truth and slanting it from there to inflame public opinion.
The bad news is that he tore it off-duty doing his first event at his first-ever Highland Games competition which he had started training for months before, so he has to burn up his comp time and vacation time, and has no guarantee of a light-duty assignment during a VERY long rehabilitation and recovery. Given the newspaper article, I'm sure the spineless admin we have will do their best to not let him work light duty.
Spent a few years back in the late 90s and early 2000s learning all I could about local policing, doing ride alongs and internships. Decided that even just outside of Camden that I wasn't going to be happy dealing with domestics, traffic violations and the general shenanigans associated with that job in that area. Eventually ended up a federal cop and enjoyed it for the most part; certainly not as "exciting" on most tours as a local would get, but most of the time that was probably a good thing.
I got out just over a year ago after serving for 13 years and with our retirement and benefits lagging WAY behind most local and most of the better known federal agencies, it was a smart move financially. So up until about 2 or 3 weeks ago, I was really missing it terribly; having some trouble with the day-to-day as a chairborne ranger. But with what's going on now, I think maybe the Big Guy Upstairs threw me a major win getting out when I did. I look at it now as I have the benefit of having worked with some just awesome people, I was in on training most will never get, have seen some rather unusual things in my travels and have LEOSA/HR218 so I can carry until I am physically or mentally unable to anymore. But I really do feel for the guys/gals still on the job, at all levels. THERE IS NO EPIDEMIC/SYSTEMATIC POLICE BRUTALITY PROBLEM, PERIOD. For God's sake, why can't people with the audience stand up and state the simple fact that over 60 million, on the low end, police encounters a year end just fine; even a hundred that would go terribly wrong would not even been a statistical blip on the map. It is maddening to watch the left's long game paying off so big as the takeover of teachers, the education system, the media, hollywood and pretty much everything else now pays them back with this wave of anti-LE sentiment and action with no major players seeming to take up the fight for the "good guys."
"Support our Police" signs in the yard and standing up to anyone that doesn't respect officers in person, online, at the polls, with donations, etc. is just useless without big support.
ETA: But to you that are still serving your communities, know that the vast majority of Americans, starting with this one, appreciate and respect the hell out of you and what you stand for. I pray that the good ones stay and that the rest of us show the backbone to stand up when one gets railroaded like the officer in Atlanta. Sacrificing those that are sworn to serve and protect cannot be allowed!!
LowSpeed_HighDrag
06-22-20, 04:02
With the new bill here in CO, and the filing of charges in ATL, I'm ready to leave policing after 10 years. Problem is, where do I go and what do I do? Three kids, a mortgage, bills to pay, and a lifestyle that fits the salary I have now.
SWATcop556
06-22-20, 04:21
With the new bill here in CO, and the filing of charges in ATL, I'm ready to leave policing after 10 years. Problem is, where do I go and what do I do? Three kids, a mortgage, bills to pay, and a lifestyle that fits the salary I have now.
Federal contracting is always an option. I can PM if you're interested.
With the new bill here in CO, and the filing of charges in ATL, I'm ready to leave policing after 10 years. Problem is, where do I go and what do I do? Three kids, a mortgage, bills to pay, and a lifestyle that fits the salary I have now.
I’m here in CO as well (civ) and I was chatting with an undersheriff who said if it passes he’s out of LE. Luckily I’m in El Paso county where LE is run very well so it’ll take some time here for it to all fall apart.
What’s the CO bill entail? I must have missed it.
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In 2016, after 10 years of trying to get into LE, I was hired as a correctional officer. I found I really had a knack for it but after 5 months on the job, I got hired as a police officer, which was my ultimate goal. After a brief honeymoon period with my PD, I entered FTO and found that I was a REALLY bad fit for my department. After 4 months, I resigned as I was about to fail field training, and I went back to work at the jail. I was then miserable there as it was a shitty place to work and didn't pay enough for me to pay my bills, even with OT. After a year, I left and headed back to my hometown and took a job outside of LE while I applied for police jobs in the area where I grew up, hoping I'd get a second chance. Most of the departments turned me down because my first PD didn't work out and I finally gave up trying. I'm pursuing clinical social work and in the process of getting a MSW.
My FTO didn't like me, and no matter what I did, it was never good enough. The tension and him constantly telling me how worthless I was as both a cop and a human being killed my confidence. I finally got to a point where I could barely even drive because I was so nitpicked. I was in a depression for about a year afterwards and literally felt like anyone who ever loved me was wrong; I felt there was literally not one positive thing about my existence and I was undeserving of life.
I owe my FTO a 20 year old bottle of single malt. He probably saved my life.
This is a moving story, but I don't understand it. So your point was or is ? Maybe because I dont know what a FTO is. Field Training Officer? just a guess. ? How did he save your life?
PB
john armond
06-22-20, 11:22
What’s the CO bill entail? I must have missed it.
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Qualified immunity is out. Your home, car, any assets are free game in a civil suit, if I’m reading it correctly.
https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/colorados-progressive-governor-and-legislature-just-ended-qualified-immunity-for-police-officers/
What’s the CO bill entail? I must have missed it.
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There's a lot in it, but this seems to be the highlights:
- Requires body cameras be worn and that recordings be released within 21 days of a misconduct claim
- Requires body cameras be activated during interaction with the public
- Defines situations when body cameras may be turned off and sets sanctions for failing use cameras appropriately
- Creates an annual reporting requirement for a variety of use of force and contact statistics
- Requires permanent revocation of certification for any peace officer that pleads guilty or nolo contendrere to a crime of unlawful use or threatened use of force
- Places limits on use of force in response to a protest or demonstration (cannot fire projectiles at head/pelvis/back or indiscriminately into a crowd. Must warn to disperse prior to use of chemical agents)
- Ends qualified immunity as a defense to civil action and allows for civil action to be brought against individual officers for infringement of rights.
- Creates use of force standards that limits use of lethal force and bans choke holds.
- Requires officers to intervene when they witness other officers using unlawful physical force and requires reporting.
- Mandates that officers who fail to intervene shall be decertified by the POST board
- Creates a database of peace officer untruthfulness, failure to meet training requirements, decertification, and termination for cause
- Allows the POST board to decertify officers that fail to meet training requirements
- Requires that peace officers have a legal basis for making a contact
- Requires reporting after a contact
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb20-217
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BoringGuy45
06-22-20, 11:44
This is a moving story, but I don't understand it. So your point was or is ? Maybe because I dont know what a FTO is. Field Training Officer? just a guess. ? How did he save your life?
PB
Yes, FTO=Field Training Officer. The fact that he belittled me day in and day out finally broke my confidence and I was unable to do the job. Had he successfully guided me through training, I might still be on the job, in a city that hates cops, with a target on my back. Who knows what may have happened to me this year? I just hope he and my former fellow officers are doing okay. My FTO may be an ass, but I don't wish any harm upon him.
Yes, FTO=Field Training Officer. The fact that he belittled me day in and day out finally broke my confidence and I was unable to do the job. Had he successfully guided me through training, I might still be on the job, in a city that hates cops, with a target on my back. Who knows what may have happened to me this year? I just hope he and my former fellow officers are doing okay. My FTO may be an ass, but I don't wish any harm upon him.
copy, good luck on whichever endeavor may be yours.
Grand58742
06-22-20, 11:52
There's a lot in it, but this seems to be the highlights:
- Requires body cameras be worn Agree
- and that recordings be released within 21 days of a misconduct claim Don't agree with this
- Requires body cameras be activated during interaction with the public Agree
- Defines situations when body cameras may be turned off and sets sanctions for failing use cameras appropriately Depending on the situation, I agree sometimes cameras shouldn't be activated, also would like to know what "sanctions" means
- Creates an annual reporting requirement for a variety of use of force and contact statistics Not liking "variety" this needs to be clearly defined
- Requires permanent revocation of certification for any peace officer that pleads guilty or nolo contendrere to a crime of unlawful use or threatened use of force Agree
- Places limits on use of force in response to a protest or demonstration (cannot fire projectiles at head/pelvis/back or indiscriminately into a crowd. Must warn to disperse prior to use of chemical agents) Fine line here, don't entirely agree
- Ends qualified immunity as a defense to civil action and allows for civil action to be brought against individual officers for infringement of rights. Agree with ending immunity, don't necessarily agree with the civil action
- Creates use of force standards that limits use of lethal force and bans choke holds. Standards for use of lethal force should already be in place. Don't necessarily agree on choke holds
- Requires officers to intervene when they witness other officers using unlawful physical force and requires reporting. This should be the case anyway... can't believe they have to write it into law
- Mandates that officers who fail to intervene shall be decertified by the POST board Agree
- Creates a database of peace officer untruthfulness, failure to meet training requirements, decertification, and termination for cause Agree though minus the "training requirement" portion
- Allows the POST board to decertify officers that fail to meet training requirements Another fine line here, who gets to determine the training requirements?
- Requires that peace officers have a legal basis for making a contact "Contact" needs to be clearly defined
- Requires reporting after a contact See answer above
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb20-217
-
Some decent ideas here, but some vague items that could be abused.
Yea F all that
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- Places limits on use of force in response to a protest or demonstration (cannot fire projectiles at head/pelvis/back or indiscriminately into a crowd. Must warn to disperse prior to use of chemical agents)
I disagree with this 100%. This will make it harder to stop riots. If people are legally protesting peacefully, no need to use force. If you riot, and you get hit with a rubber bullet, gas canister it should be on you and not the police.
- Ends qualified immunity as a defense to civil action and allows for civil action to be brought against individual officers for infringement of rights.
This is total BS. When I was a cop in the USA, I was sued 3 times. Twice the county settled out of court as a cost saving issue. The third time the scum refused a huge cash settlement and in trial they won zero. But if you don't protect officers financial well being you will have officers doing nothing. On the other hand if an officer is convicted in a criminal court of a felony, then QI should be open for removal after a court hearing and due process.
- Creates use of force standards that limits use of lethal force and bans choke holds.
The choke hold if taught how to do it is a great tool, and not lethal. I have choked out tons of people in my life. Never killed anyone, but it solved me having to really hurt someone to get them to jail. Limit lethal force, will get cops killed.
- Requires officers to intervene when they witness other officers using unlawful physical force and requires reporting.
No problem with requiring reporting, but what is intervention
- Mandates that officers who fail to intervene shall be decertified by the POST board
Again what is intervention?
Grand58742
06-22-20, 12:20
- Places limits on use of force in response to a protest or demonstration (cannot fire projectiles at head/pelvis/back or indiscriminately into a crowd. Must warn to disperse prior to use of chemical agents)
I disagree with this 100%. This will make it harder to stop riots. If people are legally protesting peacefully, no need to use force. If you riot, and you get hit with a rubber bullet, gas canister it should be on you and not the police.
- Ends qualified immunity as a defense to civil action and allows for civil action to be brought against individual officers for infringement of rights.
This is total BS. When I was a cop in the USA, I was sued 3 times. Twice the county settled out of court as a cost saving issue. The third time the scum refused a huge cash settlement and in trial they won zero. But if you don't protect officers financial well being you will have officers doing nothing. On the other hand if an officer is convicted in a criminal court of a felony, then QI should be open for removal after a court hearing and due process.
- Creates use of force standards that limits use of lethal force and bans choke holds.
The choke hold if taught how to do it is a great tool, and not lethal. I have choked out tons of people in my life. Never killed anyone, but it solved me having to really hurt someone to get them to jail. Limit lethal force, will get cops killed.
- Requires officers to intervene when they witness other officers using unlawful physical force and requires reporting.
No problem with requiring reporting, but what is intervention
- Mandates that officers who fail to intervene shall be decertified by the POST board
Again what is intervention?
I personally think qualified immunity has become abused over the years (as many things have been) and the concept should have another look. It should not be the immediate fall back until such a complaint or case has been completed.
One of those things that was a good idea in concept when it was started, but like everything, has a less limited scope these days.
joedirt199
06-22-20, 12:20
Where are the laws that limit citizen's behavior? Oh that's right already in place and, certain ones don't have to abide by them. Guess we need more policing of the police because every interaction is so black and white, cut and dry.
teufelhund1918
06-22-20, 12:58
I foresee in the near future that things like this legislation will lead directly to people saying..."F#$@ that, I don't want to be a cop"... which will lead to an uncivil lawless society. Criminals will be able to do their will freely and good people will pay the price on different levels no matter what. Any sort of personal responsibility on the behalf of the liberal mind has no accounting. It is everyone's fault but their own.... a my way or the highway mentality. Utter insanity seems to be gripping and controlling this country anymore. It is going to get worse going into the election. Once the election is over, it will get even worse no matter who wins. The progressive commies will utterly lose their minds if Trump wins and blow the country up. If Biden... gasp/gulp/fart... wins, it will be payback time on a level above the Obammer years for those that supported Trump. Your civil liberties will become crimes.
Averageman
06-22-20, 13:18
I know one thing for sure. If you are fighting me, you have no rules and if I am fighting back and can't punch you, or grab you around the neck, I will lose.
So if this goes hand to hand, am I as an Officer, more likely to be seriously harmed or killed and the suspect escape?
So does the culprit resisting arrest now becomes more likely to escalate under these new rules?
Will these rules increase or decrease the numbers of shootings?
It's kind of simple for me to figure out.
BoringGuy45
06-22-20, 13:26
copy, good luck on whichever endeavor may be yours.
You know those heartbreaking stories that turn into "and it was the best thing that could have happened"? Well, long term, it has. I'm in the process of getting my MSW and going into mental health/criminal rehab. Better money, better hours, quite a bit safer.
SomeOtherGuy
06-22-20, 13:31
It is going to get worse going into the election. Once the election is over, it will get even worse no matter who wins. The progressive commies will utterly lose their minds if Trump wins and blow the country up. If Biden... gasp/gulp/fart... wins, it will be payback time on a level above the Obammer years for those that supported Trump. Your civil liberties will become crimes.
This, sadly.
Enjoy the next 4.5 months, the real unpleasantness starts in November regardless of which candidate wins - or more likely, "wins."
QI should be in place until an officer is convicted of a felony. If he appeals, then until that process is over.
Like I said I was sued 3 times, twice the county settled out of court. If you don't think the government would throw officer under the bus, then you haven't had the joy of being in the system.
I’ve started playing PowerBall as my backup retirement plan... the odds of striking the jackpot are way better than the odds of me making it to the 20 year mark lol
I only play the office pool. I don't expect to ever win, but I'll be damned if I'd sit here and watch them win and I'm stuck here holding the bag while they all retire early! :mad:
Qualified immunity is out. Your home, car, any assets are free game in a civil suit, if I’m reading it correctly.
https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/colorados-progressive-governor-and-legislature-just-ended-qualified-immunity-for-police-officers/
So how long until LEO's put everything in a Trust and set up LLC's for policing? :confused:
- Places limits on use of force in response to a protest or demonstration (cannot fire projectiles at head/pelvis/back or indiscriminately into a crowd. Must warn to disperse prior to use of chemical agents)
I disagree with this 100%. This will make it harder to stop riots. If people are legally protesting peacefully, no need to use force. If you riot, and you get hit with a rubber bullet, gas canister it should be on you and not the police.
The problem is that there's no delineation between peaceful protests and rioting. The biggest problem we see right now is munitions being used against peaceful protesters and those practicing civil disobedience. That's straight up a no-go in American society. Even once it turns into a riot or looting, officers shouldn't be shooting them in the face with rubber bullets. You don't use lethal force unless life is in danger, and rubber bullets to the head can kill even more easily than tasers. Nothing is lost by NOT shooting or gassing peaceful Americans, or by warning them when they cross the line to riot and that munitions will be used to stop them.
- Ends qualified immunity as a defense to civil action and allows for civil action to be brought against individual officers for infringement of rights.
This is total BS. When I was a cop in the USA, I was sued 3 times. Twice the county settled out of court as a cost saving issue. The third time the scum refused a huge cash settlement and in trial they won zero. But if you don't protect officers financial well being you will have officers doing nothing. On the other hand if an officer is convicted in a criminal court of a felony, then QI should be open for removal after a court hearing and due process.
Mostly agree. The issue isn't QI per se, but the refusal of the legal system to hold officers accountable for criminal acts. When agencies and DA's cover up LE crimes, society loses. When unions strongarm agencies and DA's to have a kid glove policy on bad cops, society loses. If the profession doesn't want and can't afford to lose QI, then they damned well better shape up and police their own ranks before policing the public. You can't lament the loss of something you refused to protect, and that's what's been happening for far too long. Personally I think a flagrant violation of policy should void QI, not just a criminal conviction. Obviously the problem comes in deciding what is/isn't flagrant?
- Creates use of force standards that limits use of lethal force and bans choke holds.
The choke hold if taught how to do it is a great tool, and not lethal. I have choked out tons of people in my life. Never killed anyone, but it solved me having to really hurt someone to get them to jail. Limit lethal force, will get cops killed.
Again, you aren't the problem. The Derek Chauvins of the profession are the problem. Unless unions and agencies start working together to remove them from the profession, all officers will suffer the loss of vital tools they need to perform their duties.
- Requires officers to intervene when they witness other officers using unlawful physical force and requires reporting.
No problem with requiring reporting, but what is intervention
I'm guessing verbal, then physical intervention if verbal isn't effective?
- Mandates that officers who fail to intervene shall be decertified by the POST board
Again what is intervention?
Man I usually agree with the things you say, but I can't fully agree with you here. The problem is you're assuming a good officer who both follows policy and has some morals. Unfortunately it's been proven that those things are absent from more than a few officers. See my comments in blue.
Adrenaline_6
06-22-20, 13:58
This whole ban on choke holds rhetoric is stupid. It has it's place to render someone violently resisting to be less resistant. If you actually think about it, Floyd wasn't even being choked to begin with. He was being knelt on his neck. Not really a choke hold in any sense of the word. If someone fights to the point they pass out, more than likely, they get let go, they regain consciousness and all is good. The ones who have a bad heart or respiratory condition are stupid to fight to begin with because even not being choked can do them in.
Anything can be abused for the most part, it is the same rhetoric as shootings. Ban the gun because as few bad people use it incorrectly and illegally. Stupid.
Averageman
06-22-20, 14:57
This whole ban on choke holds rhetoric is stupid. It has it's place to render someone violently resisting to be less resistant. If you actually think about it, Floyd wasn't even being choked to begin with.
Is this going to result in more shootings or less?
Is this going to result in more shootings or less?
This whole mess will result in the police not policing. Which will drive crime through the roof. Which will result in the Leftists/ComDems pushing for a national police force that answers only to them.
Averageman
06-22-20, 15:32
This whole mess will result in the police not policing. Which will drive crime through the roof. Which will result in the Leftists/ComDems pushing for a national police force that answers only to them.
So essentially more black on black crime because no one will respond to calls in certain areas?
I just want to be clear. Americans protesting peacefully, should never be subject to any amount of force from the police beyond showing them which way to march so they don't go down a wrong road and get run over by cars.
So essentially more black on black crime because no one will respond to calls in certain areas?
It hasn’t been that long ago when activists were claiming racism because there were not enough police patrolling in high crime areas.
This whole ban on choke holds rhetoric is stupid. It has it's place to render someone violently resisting to be less resistant. If you actually think about it, Floyd wasn't even being choked to begin with. He was being knelt on his neck. Not really a choke hold in any sense of the word. If someone fights to the point they pass out, more than likely, they get let go, they regain consciousness and all is good. The ones who have a bad heart or respiratory condition are stupid to fight to begin with because even not being choked can do them in.
Anything can be abused for the most part, it is the same rhetoric as shootings. Ban the gun because as few bad people use it incorrectly and illegally. Stupid.
If choking dudes out is banned, then cops should have 500mg ketamine autoinjectors. I’m only half kidding.
If choking dudes out is banned, then cops should have 500mg ketamine autoinjectors. I’m only half kidding.
More like ketawinning
But yea outlawing lethal force options is a small brain move. Weird how the 4A doesn’t care about such things ...
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Diamondback
06-22-20, 17:01
If choking dudes out is banned, then cops should have 500mg ketamine autoinjectors. I’m only half kidding.
If you can get a clear shot at the right spot to stick him for long enough to do so... this could be a reasonable compromise.
Averageman
06-22-20, 17:20
This is going to result in more deaths, not fewer then?
Look, I'm tracking all of the good intent here and no, a knee on the neck is nothing like a properly applied rear choke hold, but..
I'm thinking the fewer tools, you have to work with the quicker scenario's escalate. Instead of a proper OODA loop it becomes abbreviated by political forces.
This does not bode well for those who will now be emboldened to resist arrest.
Bureaucracy has many contradictories that are/have been showing up in LE.
For example we have laws, we have law enforcement, and we have criminals who violate those laws. Cops catch the criminals and the the bureaucracy lets them go without punishment.
Society wants nice social workers so violent felons don't get roughed up.
Can't have cops trained in hand to hand skills because that could be seen as excessive use of force. Since cops can't fight they resort to shooting.
The left wants it both ways.
Eventually ComDem cities will only have/hire their own kind, ComDem cops.
Averageman
06-22-20, 18:04
Eventually ComDem cities will only have/hire their own kind, ComDem cops.
I honestly believe this has to an extent been happening for a number of years. It would certainly appear that many of the Chiefs of Police in major Blue Cities are much more anti-gun and toeing the Blue agenda.
I'm not sure how that filters down to the Cop on the street, but why would anyone work for a guy who would burn you in a heart beat?
Again Deep Blue Cities inside Deep Blue States should be policing exactly along the lines as they are instructed.
This is good- law enforcement officials in CA refusing to enforce the Governor's mandatory mask order. Some agencies saying that due to the risk of confrontation over a non-law they will ignore it, even going to the extent of telling the public not to call them for mask violations.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-resist-newsom-face-mask-order
vicious_cb
06-22-20, 19:09
This is good- law enforcement officials in CA refusing to enforce the Governor's mandatory mask order. Some agencies saying that due to the risk of confrontation over a non-law they will ignore it, even going to the extent of telling the public not to call them for mask violations.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-resist-newsom-face-mask-order
Too bad they're still enforcing CA's draconian gun laws.
BoringGuy45
06-22-20, 22:01
I honestly believe this has to an extent been happening for a number of years. It would certainly appear that many of the Chiefs of Police in major Blue Cities are much more anti-gun and toeing the Blue agenda.
I'm not sure how that filters down to the Cop on the street, but why would anyone work for a guy who would burn you in a heart beat?
Again Deep Blue Cities inside Deep Blue States should be policing exactly along the lines as they are instructed.
I worked for a department in densely populated, poverty stricken, deep blue city. The chief, I have almost no doubt, would tow the line on gun bans if it came to that (though I was in a pro-gun state, so that wasn't going to happen when I was there). The captain and all the lieutenants were self-proclaimed conservatives and proudly pro gun. One corporal (who is now a sergeant) was anti-gun, to the point that he only carried a gun because it was an absolute requirement on duty. However, he wasn't particularly outspoken or aggressive about it, and even if a gun confiscation was ordered, he'd probably not care to strictly enforce it because he was so damn lazy. All the other sergeants were pro gun. Among the corporals and rank and file officers, the majority would not comply with a gun confiscation order. Some would walk off the job, others would just not even try to make any arrests. A few would comply, but not out of being anti-gun as much as they were of the mercenary mindset that they just did what they were told.
So, my assessment, from my department and from my interaction with surrounding departments was that most cops would not take part in anti-gun enforcement. But, enough would that it would cause a problem.
LMT Shooter
06-22-20, 23:10
Regarding choke holds, I fail to see the logic in an outright prohibition of anything if lethal force is justified. If you are trying to gouge my eyes out, I can absolutely justify (morally) biting your fingers off if that's the only way to prevent me being blinded for life. In a true life or death struggle, the only rule is to survive/win/whatever you wanna call it. If lethal force is justified, who gives rats ass what the means was?
This is like laws or policies that specify that the MINIMUM amount of force be used. How the hell can anyone know what the minimum amount of force that will work is? Any dipshit in favor of those rules has never been in a real fight. An officer deciding what amount of justified force to use is often making an educated guess. Too little, and it's possible that someone gets injured or killed. Too much, and you risk criminal charges &/or civil lawsuits. Oh, and you'll often be making that educated guess in an instant and under extreme stress, but don't make the wrong choice!
The true issue is unjustified uses of force.
This is good- law enforcement officials in CA refusing to enforce the Governor's mandatory mask order. Some agencies saying that due to the risk of confrontation over a non-law they will ignore it, even going to the extent of telling the public not to call them for mask violations.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-resist-newsom-face-mask-order
That’s great, but where is an analogous open refusal to enforce the many unconstitutional gun laws in CA?
vicious_cb
06-22-20, 23:32
That’s great, but where is an analogous open refusal to enforce the many unconstitutional gun laws in CA?
With everything going on they still find the time to a pinch a guy for having a single 30 rnd mag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm_a68DUX0w
Too bad they're still enforcing CA's draconian gun laws.
You do have a point there.
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