View Full Version : Building your stockpiles... ratios of Serious to Training to "Specialty" rounds?
Diamondback
06-27-20, 18:21
Didn't see anything about this so maybe my Google-Fu is weak today, but I'm at standing start planning/building my ammo dump and trying to get up to speed.
If we assume a basic "building block" for any given caliber is a thousand rounds of a Serious Work load, how many "training rounds" do you keep in your stockpile relative to that thousand? Also, if you keep stocks of "special purpose" rounds like Mk 262 alongside your "main load," what all roles do you keep the specialists for and how many of each?
As a start, I was thinking something like 250x each Mk 262 for long-range SHTF and M855 (only "maybe" on the M855, not sure if it's even worth having), 1000x each of FBIT3/SBCT3 or 64gr Fusion/Gold Dot and a "training counterpart." Any other special roles I need to consider, or suggestions to revise this ratio?
With this panic going on, buy what you can when you can as it's worse than any other panic combined.
But for suggestions, anything you would consider to be war stock, I would get into 30 cal cans. Easier to if packing up for the high ground in your escape vehicle to the mountains. both 9 and 45 get really heavy in a 50. Training stock and SHTF overflow that's not part of what you're arming yourself with the contingency plans, 50 cal and either Mk19 or 20mm cans.
I have exact numbers of what will fit into each if you're interested.
Diamondback
06-27-20, 19:14
Excellent point, though mainly what I was trying to work out was the ratio of load types within a specific given caliber. That kind of info would be useful to have, especially since I'm not only trying to build up my own reserves but also to write up a how-to for friends and former readers of my old column who are even LESS started down the path than I am.
That's another good question: What ratio would you set between "Fight" (.50-packed, stay-on-site) and "Flight" (grab-load-and-go) stocks? My gut would be to have Fight equal or less than Flight so it's less of an anchor dragging you to stay in a "Time to GO!" situation, but here again that's just a n00b pulling something out of his ass as an example and trying to refine by error-correction. Also, what's a good suggested split between bulk/loose, clip-loaded and ready-to-rumble in mags? (Again, n00b gut was thinking half bulk, quarter in strippers and quarter in mags as a starting spitball.) Looking for not just a "what people do," but a "why they do what they do" too, since there probably can't really be a One Size Fits All to cover such diverse needs as urban apartment dweller vs rural homesteader, and so forth.
joedirt199
06-27-20, 19:40
depends on how much you want to shoot. Have buddies who go through cases in a few months with all the matches they go to. Could always start a dry fire regiment to save on the training ammo and stock up on more serious ammo. I got a few 3000 count bullet purchases in before the shortage and have plenty of powder to load up for matches and post election shutdown ammo.
Pick any caliber that you plan on using, primary and secondary and focus on just those two. Now that we made the focus pertinent...Let's say I consume a case per year just in training, zeroing, etc., then I would make sure to have two cases just in case my usage goes up, and 10 cases for a five year plan of stock in case things need time to catch up. Remember, this is worse than all scares combined, and 2013 took a few more years before things were starting to be back to normal.
Decide what your primary round will be, and that's what you bulk up on.
I specifically have one 30 cal can of 147 HST's and one 30 cal can of 77 SMK's (1,100 9x19 & 700 Mk262) that are my two cans to pick up if there's no time. In the Mk262 can, are three stripper clip speed loaders. I have a go bag with a pistol belt with all the trimmings (mag pouches, IFAK, holster, admin pouch, etc) and bandoleers with already loaded mags to sustain the battle belt. I won't even go into the other go bag of non fighting survival gear as it's neither here nor there. But if you are interested in talking about it, I suggest a class on this subject from SGM Mike Glover over at Fieldcraft Survival.
He talks about a lot of what you are seeking for in information. Here's his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcj3FycZBXIPNj7QIBKTIDw
PracticalRifleman
06-27-20, 19:48
I think you’ve got to be honest with yourself. Are you seriously thinking you’re going to be firing thousands of rounds in some kind of war? Do you think you’re going to shoot thousands of windshields at some point?
Are you part of a team of pipe hitters that is planning some form of raids on a regular basis?
The reality is in some crazy scenario, you’re not going to survive more than a few fights on your own, if you ever even see one.
Skills trump stockpiles. Spend your money shooting.
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m1a_scoutguy
06-30-20, 00:08
Your timing couldn't be any worse sad to say, LOL !! If you already have a decent stash then good, separate it and use each item as needed. Trying to "build" up and stockpile ammo in the current climate is gonna be a tough & a very expensive undertaking ! I guess if you look hard maybe find some deals and jump when items come back in stock you will be able to get what ya need/desire. While Gold Dots, Mk 262,M855,are nice to have, just remember one important FACT, millions of Soldiers have died from FMJ ammo ! So if thats all ya got, I don't think I would loose any sleep over it.
Diamondback
06-30-20, 00:19
Your timing couldn't be any worse sad to say, LOL !! If you already have a decent stash then good, separate it and use each item as needed. Trying to "build" up and stockpile ammo in the current climate is gonna be a tough & a very expensive undertaking ! I guess if you look hard maybe find some deals and jump when items come back in stock you will be able to get what ya need/desire. While Gold Dots, Mk 262,M855,are nice to have, just remember one important FACT, millions of Soldiers have died from FMJ ammo ! So if thats all ya got, I don't think I would loose any sleep over it.
Right, at this point I'm trying to roadmap. If I have to use M855 I will, if I have to use M193 I will, and I highly doubt BG is gonna say "he ONLY shot me with a .223 Core-Lokt!"... the thinking is draw up a framework to work toward as the opportunity presents itself--no way in Hell am I putting the ball all the way to the uprights from the 95-yard line, this is a game of putting whatever yardage on the field I can whenever the opportunity presents itself. :)
I think you’ve got to be honest with yourself. Are you seriously thinking you’re going to be firing thousands of rounds in some kind of war? Do you think you’re going to shoot thousands of windshields at some point?
Are you part of a team of pipe hitters that is planning some form of raids on a regular basis?
The reality is in some crazy scenario, you’re not going to survive more than a few fights on your own, if you ever even see one.
Skills trump stockpiles. Spend your money shooting.
Although you make a good, real world point. I'd never be sitting around with less than 5k in rifle ammo with an ability to load at least another 5-10 thousand for regular shooting.
I remember a previous panic where the only guys shooting at a busy weekend shooting spot were Pappabear and I. Why? Because we stacked it deep and didn't have to ration a small inventory.
Who do I need to arm?
For what?
With what quantity of basic load?
With what expected resupply needs?
With what expected supply chain?
Who do I need to train?
For what?
To what level of proficiency?
In what period of time?
With what available resources?
With what expected resupply needs?
With what expected supply chain?
What I keep on hand:
556
1) A few hundred Fusion MSR
2) About a hundred Vor-tx 70gr 556
3) A few hundo Frontier 68gr 556
4) A few thousand 62gr reloads (Not 855)
5) A few thousand of anything brass cased that is a good deal at the moment, especially if it uses good brass. XM193, XM855, Aguila, Precision One seconds, etc.
9mm
6) a few hundred Ranger T 147gr
7) a few thou 147gr flat point
8) literally anything that uses a brass case and standard-ish pressure. 115gr-147gr Reloads, Aguila (I actually like the 147 gr), XM, etc.
Other calibers
9) anywhere from 20-2000 for each caliber, depending on how much of it I actually shoot. So like a box of .45 and 7-08, and a couple cases of 5.45 and 7.62x39, with others like Grendel and .40 falling in between. The bird gun has several types of shot on hand.
Why and what do I use it for:
The top 4 loads all have similar velocity and POI is close enough at their intended use/distance. Some of the amounts are simply because I tend to buy in bulk.
1)Fusion MSR is for HD. The reason I buy a good bit at a time is for testing in my weapons for function and confirming close-enough zero at 200-300 (in case I use it for something other than HD). In my experience, it will run any reasonable gun, so you can get away with buying three boxes, and using one to test function and load a mag with the others. Use the extra 10 to rotate out chambered rounds.
2) 70 TSX solid copper for hunting. Obviously I don’t NEED 100, but see #1. POI is the same as #3, out to 200. I’ve not tested it further.
3) 68 OTM. This is the load I use at medium range matches, and what the guns are actually zero’d with, at 50 or 200 or 300, depending on the gun, optic, and opportunity. Loads 1,2, and 4 follow its zero pretty well.
4) 62 gr ball reloads. This is what I usually use for training. It hits close enough out to at least 300. Cycles the gun. Recoil’s about right. Loading a 62gr bullet to similar velocities as factories are getting from 5.56 with 68-70gr bullets means it is easy to work up a safe load that is a rough ballistic match. Its in the neighborhood of hot .223 or light 5.56. We group buy bulk powder, work up a load in a few guns, and start cranking. We use non-magnetic projectiles, because we shoot at a lot of steel, and prefer Hornady 62gr FMJ.
5) Rando ammo. This helps keep the brass supply fresh, while also catering to my laziness in a reasonably economic fashion.
6) RA9T for defense.
7) 147 gr for matches. I like the way the flat point punches paper cleanly, and the recoil of minimum power factor 147’s. These also suppress well through the PCC’s and pistols.
8) 9mm blasting ammo and brass supply.
9) to ensure I can actually shoot the .35 Remington levergun in the back of my safe when the whim next strikes me.
I also carry and shoot whatever is issued to me, whenever applicable, and don’t think about it too hard.
I'd never be sitting around with less than 5k in rifle ammo with an ability to load at least another 5-10 thousand for regular shooting.
I remember a previous panic where the only guys shooting at a busy weekend shooting spot were Pappabear and I. Why? Because we stacked it deep and didn't have to ration a small inventory.^^ this guy gets it.
Meh. Like all the other panics. I buy what I can when I can regardless of politics. My realistic goal is to retire comfortable without debt. Currently, even with the pandemic, I'm not where I want to be but I'm also not hurting and have very little debt and plan to keep it that way.
I'm not here to outfit a whole platoon or a neighborhood. And I only have two arms to carry all that.
m1a_scoutguy
06-30-20, 11:08
Although you make a good, real world point. I'd never be sitting around with less than 5k in rifle ammo with an ability to load at least another 5-10 thousand for regular shooting.
I remember a previous panic where the only guys shooting at a busy weekend shooting spot were Pappabear and I. Why? Because we stacked it deep and didn't have to ration a small inventory.
Well said markm ! I agree 110% cuz myself and my shooting buddies were pretty much like you & Pappabear,we never stopped or slowed down back then,& if anything I know I'm in better shape now than I was then ! Before this crap hit if I saw a deal on anything reloading wize I jumped on it ! I'm good with factory 556 & 308,,good for years actually,LOL I NEVER shoot it, I reload everything I shoot, but with that said there is plenty of quality/every rd looked at/inspected and stashed for future generations, LOL ! Its a different time now but dam I remember $14 per 1K for Wolf Primers from Wideners ! I know I went through at least 10/15K at the time ! Anyways Diamondback, smart to at least be planning, get what ya can but don't forget ya gotta still shoot now. Its trying times for sure !
PracticalRifleman
06-30-20, 11:38
Although you make a good, real world point. I'd never be sitting around with less than 5k in rifle ammo with an ability to load at least another 5-10 thousand for regular shooting.
I remember a previous panic where the only guys shooting at a busy weekend shooting spot were Pappabear and I. Why? Because we stacked it deep and didn't have to ration a small inventory.
I don’t disagree with that at all I keep enough training rounds on hand to weather these panics. Since I started shooting seriously, I’ve never missed out on training due to lack of availability.
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Diamondback
06-30-20, 12:17
Right now my own acquisition plan for each load is "buy case-lots, order next case when first gets to half-used until built out to planned max." (Well, buy at each quarter-case until I have a five-case backstock, then switch to half.) In my case I'm a non-hunting suburban apartment dweller looking at Home/Neighborhood D apps, practical engagement range for my environment about 75-100yd tops.
You don't need a huge pile of SD stuff...Some, sure, but you'd be better off focusing on training fodder than dumping piles of cash on cases of bonded JSPs.
I keep a couple hundred rounds of good defense ammo on hand for each caliber, but I focus all my other purchasing and stocking efforts on training ammo and reloading components. The ratio is probably 100:1 training rounds to defense-specific stuff for 9 and 5.56. And while it's not the preference, if push comes to shove, FMJ has put a lot of bodies in the dirt.
Anyway, if you're just starting stocking up now, you pretty much missed the bus. Buy whatever you can find in stock and as much as you can afford.
Dr. Bullseye
06-30-20, 13:36
I am just a regular guy with an AR in a rural area. Not a Special Forces guy, not a militia guy (yet). I practice with the same rounds I stockpile and have only 600 rounds in stock. Now, there is an ammo shortage and I can't get anymore. It is my fault but I have learned from this.
BuzzinSATX
06-30-20, 15:05
I am just a regular guy with an AR in a rural area. Not a Special Forces guy, not a militia guy (yet). I practice with the same rounds I stockpile and have only 600 rounds in stock. Now, there is an ammo shortage and I can't get anymore. It is my fault but I have learned from this.
Yeah...I was here once. We all probably were, unless we had an “ammo guardian angel” like my kids have LOL!
I’m retiring in 5-7 years, and plan to shoot a lot more often then, but done want to have to buy training/range ammo, so I’ve been putting it away for a while. I don’t reload.
My basic “ratios” is: “couple hundred” SD ammo to “tall stacks” of range ammo
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fedupflyer
06-30-20, 16:50
I would also advise just having a case of pistol and/or rifle ammo laying around just in case you need/want to take a class.
I personally have my every day ammo, then my "if a class comes up ammo" and then the stuff I don't touch.
I believe in having sufficient "serious" ammo for any sustained situation I might encounter, and plenty of good practice ammo that can be used as backup.
After all, the practice ammo will work, just not quite as efficiently and effectively. In 5.56, I try to always buy brass cased ammo that is as close to military spec as possible for all uses. In 7.62X39, there is really not much difference, so I just buy the Wolf Military steel case crap. In 7.62 NATO, I buy Federal Gold Metal Match 168gr (for my SCARs), and random M80 ball for practice plinking.
When it comes to pistol ammo, I've really narrowed down my HD caliber to 9mm. I don't shoot the HD ammo often. I keep a fair amount of various +P hollow point (Mostly Gold Dot) HD rounds, and some some +P FMJ. For practicing, I keep a lot of Gold Dot 124gr and other similar rounds. I also have some Winchester military 9mm FMJ with a little more oomph, for my PCCs too.
Just what I have now.
5.56/.223
About 1500 rounds of Mk262 clone. This is my HD and precision round.
About 10,000 rounds M193, of Federal 50%, PMC 25%, and Wolf Gold 25%.
About 10,000 rounds M855, of Federal 75%, and PMC 25%.
1000 MEN Practice/Plinking, similar to M193 German made.
1000 Other practice ammo
1000 Wolf steel case garbage. I've never shot any steel case in my .223/5.56 rifles. Maybe when the Boogaloo happens I'll barter the Wolf for a bottle of good scotch.
7.62 NATO
~1000 168gr FGMM
4000+ rounds M80 and clones
9MM
Various +P HD rounds, maybe 1000 rounds total.
Around 5000 practice rounds, some military spec. A lot of Gold Dot practice rounds.
.45 ACP
1000 rounds+, nothing special. .45 is not a primary pistol round for me.
7.62X39
5000+ rounds Wolf. I'm thinking of selling my AKs and maybe just getting a couple 300Blk uppers.
Shot Shells HD
I don't know, I bought an ammo can of Federal Military 00 Buck, I have a case of various 12 and 20 gauge 00 and #4 buck shot and some boxes of slugs. I'm just not going to use my M37 Police, my High Standard Riot gun, or my Browning High Capacity except in some extreme circumstance that I cannot forsee right now.
.22LR
Thousands of rounds, mostly CCI Mini-Mag
Other stuff
.380 ACP, 30-06, .270, 300 Win Mag, .357 Mag, .38, .44 Mag. I just keep a few boxes of each of these.
I have subscribed to the PB/Markm philosophy for years.
Best to not get caught short.
Straight Shooter
06-30-20, 19:48
I have subscribed to the PB/Markm philosophy for years.
Best to not get caught short.
I PREACHED for the last three years to close friends & family.."BUY NOW"! Last year, told them over & over.."election year is coming better stock up & load up NOW"! Did they listen? NOPE. Screw em. I told them & told them we were in the best times of my 55 year old life to buy guns,ammo & gear. As Col. Cooper was fond of saying."Well, I GOT MINE."
Diamondback
06-30-20, 20:49
I PREACHED for the last three years to close friends & family.."BUY NOW"! Last year, told them over & over.."election year is coming better stock up & load up NOW"! Did they listen? NOPE. Screw em. I told them & told them we were in the best times of my 55 year old life to buy guns,ammo & gear. As Col. Cooper was fond of saying."Well, I GOT MINE."
True, but some folks were born too late for the happy days when you could buy a truckload of Milsurp and the 6x6 delivering it for a few hundred bucks... :) and sharing ideas and techniques doesn't cost anything, unlike moochers wanting your ammo.
True, but some folks were born too late for the happy days when you could buy a truckload of Milsurp and the 6x6 delivering it for a few hundred bucks... :) and sharing ideas and techniques doesn't cost anything, unlike moochers wanting your ammo.
You mean like a year or two ago?
I have subscribed to the PB/Markm philosophy for years.
Best to not get caught short.
Agreed.
My wife quit complaining that I have taken too much space with my ammo, and she apologized for insinuating that I am nuts for buying so many food and ammo preps.
Very satisfying.
She shut up when COVID hit, and recently our quiet little town had to be boarded up because the loons rioted and looted a small city about 5 miles up the highway.
If it gets that bad, I would have no problem shooting a bad guy with MEN 147 grain ball ammo with ball powder. So a couple hundred rounds of good self defense ammo in any such caliber for most realistic scenarios.
It would suck to try and start stockpiling now- SUCK with the prices and supplies. 9mm has gone from $169 for 1k to over $300 in a few weeks.
PB
m1a_scoutguy
07-02-20, 01:00
True, but some folks were born too late for the happy days when you could buy a truckload of Milsurp and the 6x6 delivering it for a few hundred bucks... :) and sharing ideas and techniques doesn't cost anything, unlike moochers wanting your ammo.
You mean like a year or two ago?
Dude your NOT even close,LOL ! I'm OLD and even a year ago prices were silly compared to before Obummer got elected ! I remember 7.62x51 Portuguese being $150 bucks for a sealed case of 1000 ! I bought South African 7.62x51 for $21 bucks a Battle pack. (140rds) 960 rounds of 30/06 from the CMP for around $200 bucks shipped ! And I got into the Surplus Game Late even for me, prices were even lower as you could expect ! LOL ,I remember Wolf/Brown Bear/Golden Tiger 7.62X39 under $80 bucks a case ! Anyways as they say I have plenty that I bought "cheap" and yea its kinda stacked deep as they say ! Yes Diamondback,,you know what I'm talking about,LOL
Anyways that was then & this is now,,,get what ya can when ya can and just hope & pray things get better ! Even slightly better would be nice but I'm not holding my breath anytime soon.
Midway used to run really good stuff on clearance for cheap. For a few years I watched their clearance section often and if it was something I actually used and liked - I bought big and at a substantial savings over the 'normal' price.
Once time I saw 460 Rowland brass for half what Starline charged for it directly. Bought 3k pcs to add to the pile I already had. :)
Then one time they had 230grain, 45 acp Speer Gold Dot projectiles in the bulk boxes on clearance for about 40% off. It will be years before I burn through all those boxes. :)
I have enough powder, primers, projectiles, brass, and factory fodder that this current 'shortage' is not a blip on my radar. Before I get through my stocks a few barrels will be shot out and need replacing. No problem there as I have a few of those set back as well.
No chance of me buying in this current market at these current prices.
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