View Full Version : Jo Jorgensen
Bodhisattva05X
06-29-20, 19:47
What do we know about her? Is she a legit candidate? I’ve noticed she’s gaining a lot of traction on the facing book. Or is she just going to turn into another Ross Perot and potentially derail A Trump re election ala Bush Sr.
Had to look her up, never heard of her. There is one thing for sure...she'll lose. Will she hurt Trump? I doubt it.
BoringGuy45
06-29-20, 20:10
I looked at her platform. It's just not viable; we're never, ever going to be, in her words a "giant Switzerland". We're also not going to fix poverty by giving huge corporations even more freedom to monopolize the market than they already do.
Current Libertarian candidate, so no....not a chance.
I personally agree with a lot of the libertarian platform, but I'll vote Red, even though I see issues down the line.
I'm voting red, I saw things that I disagree with on her platform and will not budge.
I’ll vote republican and then go take a shower. I can’t stand Trump, and 95% of the do-nothing coward lying rinos.
But look at everything that’s going on . . . . . Not sitting this one out. I’ll vote for that orange narcissist simply because the crazies and commies hate him
Here are her stated positions. Agree with some, disagree with some. Won't matter.
Social Security
Social Security "would be drastically changed..the most critical -- and controversial -- component of [Jorgensen's] plan is that any American would be able to opt out of Social Security. Anyone who took this route would be allowed to invest 6.2% of their payroll taxes in individual retirement accounts but would receive no Social Security benefits at retirement."[15] However, Jorgensen is committed to making the system financially stable for current beneficiaries and those who do not opt out. [16]
Criminal justice reform
Jorgensen opposes federal civil asset forfeiture. She is also critical of the United States' high incarceration rate.[17]
War on Drugs
Jorgensen opposes the War on Drugs, calling it "racist"[18] and a "failed"[17] policy. She supports abolishing drug laws.[18]
Police demilitarization
She promotes the demilitarization of police, saying that the police's duty "is to go after specific perpetrators of violent crimes, not to act as a force against the people." [19]
Environment
Jorgensen favors nuclear power plants to reduce CO2 emissions.[17][20]
Foreign policy
Jorgensen opposes embargoes, economic sanctions, and foreign aid. She favors the withdrawal of American troops from foreign wars.[21][20] She favors non-interventionism, free and open trade with other nations.[17]
Healthcare
Jorgensen supports a free-market healthcare system over the current system or single-payer.[22][23]
Immigration
In a Libertarian presidential primary debate, Jorgensen said she would immediately stop construction on President Donald Trump's border wall and eliminate quotas limiting who can immigrate to the U.S. During another primary debate, Jorgensen said she would "open up the borders," and she blamed anti-immigration sentiment on disproportionate media coverage of crimes by immigrants. She argued that immigration helps the economy and that the blending of cultures was beneficial.[24][25][26]
COVID-19
She has said the government's response to COVID-19 is "the biggest assault on our liberties in our lifetime," because of both restrictions on individual behavior such as stay-at-home orders as well as corporate bailouts, which she sees as antithetical to free-market principles and biased towards the well-connected.[22][24][27]
I don't agree with all of her positions, but she has my vote. Will she win? Almost certainly not, but I'd rather vote for a candidate I at least somewhat agree with and could respect than one that "might win."
MisterHelix
06-30-20, 08:59
I rarely comment on electoral politics since it’s such a circus, but I think Libertarian candidates perform an important function in our current duopoly.
Most everyone I know has, more or less, libertarian ideals. Y’know, “freedom is good” and stuff like that.
I think we are all aware that our country was founded on essentially libertarian ideals, and I think we are all aware that both modern major parties have, in practice, drifted away from those ideals on a number of issues (though admittedly “constitutional conservatives” tend to strike closer to the mark than the Marxist ideologies of the modern left).
Anyway, I think the L candidate applies pressure to the R’s and D’s to embrace (remember?) some libertarian ideals, or risk losing the X% of votes from normal Americans of all stripes who value freedom.
Libertarians don’t have to win to exert a net positive effect on policy. They just have to make the big players concerned enough about losing to adopt (or at least give lip service to) the general ideals that make America exceptional.
Jo Jorgensen is a good offering from the L party, IMO. She’s not a joke candidate, or a single issue candidate, or a moron, or a RINO.
One of these cycles the R/D candidates will be so bad (are we already there?) that the L’s will pull double digits. Hell, even a high single-digit margin is enough to make-or-break an election.
Are the R’s going to write off that critical percentage?
Are they going to dismiss the ideals that are quintessentially American and laugh off voters that put personal liberty at the forefront?
“Pffft. Loser Libertarians. All they care about is freedom.”
Yeah...that’s me I guess. I’m voting for the nice lady that wants to abolish the ATF.
Adrenaline_6
06-30-20, 09:38
Although having good policies, the reality is this:
She won't win, and do you risk losing a vote for the lesser evil and getting Democrat rule? Although it might appease your moral compass and maybe make you feel better about yourself, it also risks something worse than holding your nose for the lesser evil. It is ultimately your choice, but if the worst case scenario comes into play, have no doubts that you played your part in it so you can feel warm and fuzzy.
Averageman
06-30-20, 09:43
Vote for Jo and get Joe.
War on Drugs
Jorgensen opposes the War on Drugs, calling it "racist"[18] and a "failed"[17] policy. She supports abolishing drug laws.[18]
Police demilitarization
She promotes the demilitarization of police, saying that the police's duty "is to go after specific perpetrators of violent crimes, not to act as a force against the people." [19]
Environment
In a Libertarian presidential primary debate, Jorgensen said she would immediately stop construction on President Donald Trump's border wall and eliminate quotas limiting who can immigrate to the U.S. During another primary debate, Jorgensen said she would "open up the borders," and she blamed anti-immigration sentiment on disproportionate media coverage of crimes by immigrants. She argued that immigration helps the economy and that the blending of cultures was beneficial.[24][25][26]
COVID-19
Just another poison pill 'everything is racist' globalist.
I'd just as soon have voted Tulsi; at least she was kind of cute.
As far as further issues;
This is yet another typical lolbertarian playbook event; 1) totally whiff on your chance during previous elections, 2) Pop up again at an inconvenient time with a "meh" candidate that merely sucks votes up in a tight race (#virginia), 3) leftists win again, none of the supposed "benefits" the third party want to implement matter.
And I know someone will say "WeLL ThATs CuZ NoT EnOuGh PeOPle VoTed FoR tHe ThIrD PaRty", but no...
I would very much appreciate a third party to vote for instead of the two we can't get rid of, but the lolbertatians really SUCK at politics, both timing and presentation, and I am also never voting third party just so I can get another leftist shill, but this time wrapped in a freedom blanket.
At least we all know the current enemy[s] we have.
MisterHelix
06-30-20, 10:16
Although having good policies, the reality is this:
She won't win, and do you risk losing a vote for the lesser evil and getting Democrat rule?
Exactly that.
I guess the RNC/Trump/whatever better start appealing to a broader cross section of freedom loving Americans (eg: having good policies).
Otherwise...they’ll lose, and not because I, personally, caused it.
Pretty simple, really.
I’m not your enemy. I’d be happy to vote R if they put up good candidates backed by good liberty-focused policies.
Adrenaline_6
06-30-20, 11:48
Exactly that.
I guess the RNC/Trump/whatever better start appealing to a broader cross section of freedom loving Americans (eg: having good policies).
Otherwise...they’ll lose, and not because I, personally, caused it.
Pretty simple, really.
I’m not your enemy. I’d be happy to vote R if they put up good candidates backed by good liberty-focused policies.
Exactly that.
I guess the RNC/Trump/whatever better start appealing to a broader cross section of freedom loving Americans (eg: having good policies).
Otherwise...they’ll lose, and not because I, personally, caused it.
Pretty simple, really.
I’m not your enemy. I’d be happy to vote R if they put up good candidates backed by good liberty-focused policies.
You can justify it in your head anyway you want, but you would be part of the reason whether you like it or not. If you didn't realize that your vote mattered in this close election, then no, not your fault...but if you are fully aware of the consequences and do it anyway...it IS on you.
Here are her stated positions. Agree with some, disagree with some. Won't matter.
Social Security
Social Security "would be drastically changed..the most critical -- and controversial -- component of [Jorgensen's] plan is that any American would be able to opt out of Social Security. Anyone who took this route would be allowed to invest 6.2% of their payroll taxes in individual retirement accounts but would receive no Social Security benefits at retirement."[15] However, Jorgensen is committed to making the system financially stable for current beneficiaries and those who do not opt out. [16]
So what happens to the FICA taxes the employer was paying? If they are still paying should be 12.4%. If they aren't paying in, she is proposing a 6.2% reduction in labor costs to employers with no benefits to labor.
I notice she also leaves the 1.45% medicare/medicaid tax out of the equation, is she going to return that also or use it to fund free health care?
Criminal justice reform
Jorgensen opposes federal civil asset forfeiture. She is also critical of the United States' high incarceration rate.[17]
I don't oppose asset forfeiture per se. What I oppose is the way that asset forfeiture incentivizes police conduct, I think asset forfeiture has bent the needle of many agency's and many officer's moral compass. Forfeited assets should go into the state's general fund with no percentage earmarked for the police agency.
I also agree that the incareration rate is too high, primarily because of the war on drugs. The only drug offenses you should face jail for are distribution, sale, or provided to juveniles or mentally impaired. Possession should be a civil fine, DUI would still be a thing, though.
War on Drugs
Jorgensen opposes the War on Drugs, calling it "racist"[18] and a "failed"[17] policy. She supports abolishing drug laws.[18]
I've never believed marijuana was a gateway drug. I would not balk at decriminalizing it across the board. It would be a bad thing to legalize othe schedule I or II drugs.
Police demilitarization
She promotes the demilitarization of police, saying that the police's duty "is to go after specific perpetrators of violent crimes, not to act as a force against the people." [19]
That is rhetoric - yes, the police need to become less overtly paramilitary in gear and equipment, but I don't feel they act as a force against the people. I always thought the role of the police was to encourage voluntary compliance with the law through their presence, and even-handed enforcement activities. Silly me.
Enviroment
Jorgensen favors nuclear power plants to reduce CO2 emissions.[17][20]
Totally agree, nukes, wind, solar. no need for fossil fuel.
Foreign policy
Jorgensen opposes embargoes, economic sanctions, and foreign aid. She favors the withdrawal of American troops from foreign wars.[21][20] She favors non-interventionism, free and open trade with other nations.[17]
Well, I'm pretty much a Hawk in terms of military intervention - as long as it is for righteousness, versus expediency. Free and open trade is okay as long as every other nation is dealing in free and open trade, but that is too simplistic a mindset. At some point developing nations may need to enact barriers to trade in order to grow their country's industrial capabilities. This needs to be balanced across the board, I don't think absent treaties or organizations of nations this will occur.
Healthcare
Jorgensen supports a free-market healthcare system over the current system or single-payer.[22][23]
I really haven't latched onto what a 'free-market' healthcare system would look like in comparison to what we have now.
Immigration
In a Libertarian presidential primary debate, Jorgensen said she would immediately stop construction on President Donald Trump's border wall and eliminate quotas limiting who can immigrate to the U.S. During another primary debate, Jorgensen said she would "open up the borders," and she blamed anti-immigration sentiment on disproportionate media coverage of crimes by immigrants. She argued that immigration helps the economy and that the blending of cultures was beneficial.[24][25][26]
Totally agree with this: immigration helps the economy and that the blending of cultures was beneficial. BUT a totally open border would be the ruination of America. We need to know who is coming into our country and how they will be supported. I'm for giving illegals currently in the U.S. a path to citizenship so long as they aren't felons, but we need to stop the flow of illegal immigration.
COVID-19
She has said the government's response to COVID-19 is "the biggest assault on our liberties in our lifetime," because of both restrictions on individual behavior such as stay-at-home orders as well as corporate bailouts, which she sees as antithetical to free-market principles and biased towards the well-connected.[22][24][27]
I don't pretend to know about COVID-19. My father-in-law is 94, and moved in with us when he was 92. During the day I am his primary contact, if I came down with a serious flu-like illness and transferred it to him, it would probably be a death warrant for him. So I appreciated the heads-up and wear a mask, limit contact to as few people as possible and wash the eff out of my face and hands.
I've taken REASON magazine for a couple of years now. REASON is, in the words of the publisher, the leading libertarian magazine. I have some Libertarian leanings, but overall find their platform too idealistic, and not realistic. I also feel that if, some how magically, the U.S. became a Libertarian Paradise, it would REALLY suck to be poor.
Another thing is, even if she did win, which she wont, it is most likely that neither party would work with her, and nothing would get done.
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I don't agree with all of her positions, but she has my vote. Will she win? Almost certainly not, but I'd rather vote for a candidate I at least somewhat agree with and could respect than one that "might win."
While nobody is entitled to your vote, her positions don't strongly represent me enough to use me "blocking" vote. Since it will be Trump / Biden and I still feel Biden is a much, much worse choice I will be voting for Trump, or more correctly against Biden.
I almost went third party when the GOP put McCain against Obama but things like his relationship with Bill Ayers were too much of a concern. Last time I went third party was Perot because I had lost all faith in Bush (41). It was the last time a third party candidate was actually a contender.
Another thing is, even if she did win, which she wont, it is most likely that neither party would work with her, and nothing would get done.
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Sometimes that's not a bad thing. The only thing worse than somebody who accomplishes nothing is somebody who knows how to bring bad ideas to life.
Probably the best thing about Trump and Obama was their discovery that EO's aren't magic laws that permit them to do anything and their realization that they either lack the support or the knowledge to move their ideas through Congress.
Diamondback
06-30-20, 19:42
Trump: Being dumped in a sewage tank and having to swim your own way out.
Biden: Being dumped in a SHARK tank and having to swim your own way out.
A vote for anybody but Trump, disgusting as he is, is in effect a vote for Biden.
I’ll vote republican and then go take a shower. I can’t stand Trump, and 95% of the do-nothing coward lying rinos.
But look at everything that’s going on . . . . . Not sitting this one out. I’ll vote for that orange narcissist simply because the crazies and commies hate him
Mostly same. I like many of Trump's policies, but there's a lot about him I just don't like. But I will hold my nose and swallow. If North Carolina wasn't a battleground state where I know every 'R' vote counts, I would vote for her.
Oh, how much I loathe the 2-party system....
I keep reminding my libertarian friends that they are going about this the wrong way. I tell them to get off their ass and run for local office, then grow it from there. If libertarians are going to grow as a party they need to start putting in real efforts on the local level. You are not going to go anywhere by just throwing out a presidential candidate every four years.
Personally, I think I have a better chance of fixing the republican party than advancing the libertarian party, so that's where my effort lie. There are a host of good republicans in current circulation that would do a good job with far more experience than JoJo. Dan Crenshaw and Nikki Haley immediately come to mind.
I was gonna start a thread on her, so glad someone did.
Vote for Jo and get Joe.
Why? Why it not vote for Jo and get Trump? Personally I vote my conscience and it's a vote for who I give the vote to, and whether that impacts another candidate aint my doing or my problem.
Having said that, I voted for Johnson in 16, but will likely vote for Trump this time around.
grizzlyblake
07-01-20, 11:05
Why would anyone waste the time and energy to go stand in line and vote for someone that statistically has zero chance of winning an election?
If it's about making yourself feel good you'd do better to just do a write in for someone you really like who actually matches 100% of your viewpoints.
I would have much more respect for someone who writes in Garand Thumb or Joe Rogan over some obscure third party candidate.
Why would anyone waste the time and energy to go stand in line and vote for someone that statistically has zero chance of winning an election?
If it's about making yourself feel good you'd do better to just do a write in for someone you really like who actually matches 100% of your viewpoints.
I would have much more respect for someone who writes in Garand Thumb or Joe Rogan over some obscure third party candidate.
Because they think the two candidates equally suck, think the two parties are more alike than they are different, wanna send a message and be part of the process, and refuse to do the lesser of two evils thing.
If more people voted their conscience vs "anyone but that guy" approach, we may see some actual changes.
We have the lowest voter turn out of any democracy on the planet and that's what people should be concerned about. I do tell people to write in someone they feel they could support vs not vote at all thinking that sends a message.
Voting your conscience is not a wasted vote
Not voting is a wasted vote
Because they think the two candidates equally suck, think the two parties are more alike than they are different, wanna send a message and be part of the process, and refuse to do the lesser of two evils thing.
If more people voted their conscience vs "anyone but that guy" approach, we may see some actual changes.
We have the lowest voter turn out of any democracy on the planet and that's what people should be concerned about. I do tell people to write in someone they feel they could support vs not vote at all thinking that sends a message.
Voting your conscience is not a wasted vote
Not voting is a wasted vote
At this point we collectively have the dumbest electorate on any democracy on the planet. If more of them voted the stupidity would be even worse. :(
We are at a new tipping point. The last one was the 2016 election. So many people were so smug that Hilary was going to win, and their vision of a socialist America was going to come to fruition. Well, Trump with our vote slowed down the hemorrhaging. Anyone who throws their vote to a third party is doing exactly what the Liberals want. Just remember what you helped reap if senile Joe and his socialist running mate win the election. They will trash this Republic. You can kiss your guns and your ass goodbye. Forums like this will be banned for the security and safety of the general public. We need Trump for the next four years. You can bet that the 2024 election will usher in a leftist president. That's when the real war will take place between us and them.
... We need Trump for the next four years. You can bet that the 2024 election will usher in a leftist president. That's when the real war will take place between us and them.
And THEN, not now, if the Libertarian's were smart, would be the time to pounce, unless the Repubs pull an amazing candidate out of their ass after Trump.
If the R's pick a pathetic runner in '24 (likely), then suddenly that third party gets a LOT more inviting for anyone not interested in "democratic socialism".
But... you watch. They won't. Or will bungle it handily. Just like 2016. :rolleyes:
Adrenaline_6
07-02-20, 08:51
Because they think the two candidates equally suck, think the two parties are more alike than they are different, wanna send a message and be part of the process, and refuse to do the lesser of two evils thing.
If more people voted their conscience vs "anyone but that guy" approach, we may see some actual changes.
We have the lowest voter turn out of any democracy on the planet and that's what people should be concerned about. I do tell people to write in someone they feel they could support vs not vote at all thinking that sends a message.
Voting your conscience is not a wasted vote
Not voting is a wasted vote
Though there is some truth to your statements, they also show you are either 1. Refusing to see the big picture 2. Ignoring it 3. Not caring about it or a combination of a couple or all 3.
You can try and spin it anyway you want, but then there is thing called reality that is always waiting to kick you in the nuts.
Though there is some truth to your statements, they also show you are either 1. Refusing to see the big picture 2. Ignoring it 3. Not caring about it or a combination of a couple or all 3.
You can try and spin it anyway you want, but then there is thing called reality that is always waiting to kick you in the nuts.
So I respectfully disagree. I think that the issue comes with voting libertarian only at the Presidential level. I wonder how either the Dems or Republicans will respond when they see more and more Libertarian Candidates winning in local, state and federal elections. I think that this will show that there is a voting mass who want change and a message that either major party will have to move toward. The issue with this is the Libertarian party itself. It doesn't have the substructure to push in state and local elections, however, if this was set up and within the next 10 years or so, we could see a shift in that direction in the future. I don't like the 2 party system, but I fully understand it. The issue with it of course is that the candidates should be more about the people they represent then the Elephant or Donkey pin on their lapel.
BuzzinSATX
07-02-20, 09:21
I’ll vote republican and then go take a shower. I can’t stand Trump, and 95% of the do-nothing coward lying rinos.
But look at everything that’s going on . . . . . Not sitting this one out. I’ll vote for that orange narcissist simply because the crazies and commies hate him
This 100%!!!
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Adrenaline_6
07-02-20, 09:22
So I respectfully disagree. I think that the issue comes with voting libertarian only at the Presidential level. I wonder how either the Dems or Republicans will respond when they see more and more Libertarian Candidates winning in local, state and federal elections. I think that this will show that there is a voting mass who want change and a message that either major party will have to move toward. The issue with this is the Libertarian party itself. It doesn't have the substructure to push in state and local elections, however, if this was set up and within the next 10 years or so, we could see a shift in that direction in the future. I don't like the 2 party system, but I fully understand it. The issue with it of course is that the candidates should be more about the people they represent then the Elephant or Donkey pin on their lapel.
So what you are essentially doing by voting Lib in the Presidential race is putting the carriage before the horse. Like previously mentioned by another poster. When the Libs start to get control of state and local positions is when you consider voting for a Lib President. Doing it in reverse accomplishes zero except a carriage that wont go anywhere, rots away and/or gets looted....or in this case, an enemies horse comes in, hooks it up, and takes it away.
So what you are essentially doing by voting Lib in the Presidential race is putting the carriage before the horse. Like previously mentioned by another poster. When the Libs start to get control of state and local positions is when you consider voting for a Lib President. Doing it in reverse accomplishes zero except a carriage that wont go anywhere, rots away and/or gets looted....or in this case, an enemies horse comes in, hooks it up, and takes it away.
I'm saying you need to have a structure in place like the democrats or republicans. I'm not saying I am voting libertarian for president, however I do agree with his stance that you are not throwing away your vote by doing so, instead you should look to do it at a local or state level. I don't agree with your metaphor as I don't assign my feelings to either party. I am simply suggesting that if the libertarians really want change in this country that better aligns to their values, they need to start pushing on the state and local level, and not focus so much effort on a national stage.
Diamondback
07-02-20, 10:10
I'm saying you need to have a structure in place like the democrats or republicans. I'm not saying I am voting libertarian for president, however I do agree with his stance that you are not throwing away your vote by doing so, instead you should look to do it at a local or state level. I don't agree with your metaphor as I don't assign my feelings to either party. I am simply suggesting that if the libertarians really want change in this country that better aligns to their values, they need to start pushing on the state and local level, and not focus so much effort on a national stage.
Precisely--the LP's need to prove they can win in the "farm teams" of local politics rather than demanding to go straight to the World Series. If you can't win even small-town office where the electorate is your candidates friends and neighbors who all know him/her personally...
It's just like the old 1950s-70s Leftist saying that got us where we are today: "Committed Communists join the CPUSA, but TRULY committed Communists join the Democratic Party." And just as the Communists metastasized like a cancer inside the Dems, the most successful advocates of Libertarian ideas do so under the GOP banner like the Pauls and Mike Lee. Half the GOP precinct-captain seats in the country sit empty because nobody will get off their dead ass and show up, which is how the GOP Establishment likes it because the occupied seats are divided slightly in their favor. Google "ColdWarrior Precinct Project" sometime...
Because they think the two candidates equally suck, think the two parties are more alike than they are different, wanna send a message and be part of the process, and refuse to do the lesser of two evils thing.
If more people voted their conscience vs "anyone but that guy" approach, we may see some actual changes.
We have the lowest voter turn out of any democracy on the planet and that's what people should be concerned about. I do tell people to write in someone they feel they could support vs not vote at all thinking that sends a message.
Voting your conscience is not a wasted vote
Not voting is a wasted vote
Exactly
Why? Why it not vote for Jo and get Trump? Personally I vote my conscience and it's a vote for who I give the vote to, and whether that impacts another candidate aint my doing or my problem.
Having said that, I voted for Johnson in 16, but will likely vote for Trump this time around.
It's totally your doing.
If the 3rd wheel is a disadvantage to the 2A crowd it's their problem. If the 3rd wheel is a disadvantage to BLM it's their problem.
So why did you leave a gun unfriendly State again? For your conscience?
The time has come to vote for the team. Our team sucks and has a lot of 'graduated seniors' but is bound into The Constitution. Their team wants to rule your conscience.
What is it that non-Liberals don't understand about voting? No matter where you vote it impacts EVERYONE IN THE USA.
My personal message to ANYONE that helps about 95% of Democrats get elected is very simple..... FY, sorry you're an idiot. Granted there is a small segment that can cross the line either way depending on where you live.
Will, not directed at you personally. I do respect your professional knowledge and your power to vote. I just get so absolutely ****ing tired of the 'singularity' in the 'false community' that is the Conservative Party.
I'm watching organized Democrates burn my city again. It's due to USA voting and money. I actually don't live in the city but it really pains me to see Richmond become the anus of Virginia. It is greatly due regional and National 'conscience feelings'.
I can't fight back. I can't pick up a weapon and gather forces. All I can do vote. But I need the power of national current. So when someone votes for a loser it doesn't sit well with me.
Again, not personal, I think everyone should vote for what they feel is necessary. All I may hope for is to sway your conscience, and most don't want that personal space invaded.
I'm out of options. Piss people off if I have to. Crush Democrats. Promote 2A Republicans.
But everything we do from here on out is our doing. Yours, mine, everyone's. When we vote the results are our doing.
Diamondback
07-02-20, 21:32
It's totally your doing.
If the 3rd wheel is a disadvantage to the 2A crowd it's their problem. If the 3rd wheel is a disadvantage to BLM it's their problem.
So why did you leave a gun unfriendly State again? For your conscience?
The time has come to vote for the team. Our team sucks and has a lot of 'graduated seniors' but is bound into The Constitution. Their team wants to rule your conscience.
What is it that non-Liberals don't understand about voting? No matter where you vote it impacts EVERYONE IN THE USA.
My personal message to ANYONE that helps about 95% of Democrats get elected is very simple..... FY, sorry you're an idiot. Granted there is a small segment that can cross the line either way depending on where you live.
Will, not directed at you personally. I do respect your professional knowledge and your power to vote. I just get so absolutely ****ing tired of the 'singularity' in the 'false community' that is the Conservative Party.
I'm watching organized Democrates burn my city again. It's due to USA voting and money. I actually don't live in the city but it really pains me to see Richmond become the anus of Virginia. It is greatly due regional and National 'conscience feelings'.
I can't fight back. I can't pick up a weapon and gather forces. All I can do vote. But I need the power of national current. So when someone votes for a loser it doesn't sit well with me.
Again, not personal, I think everyone should vote for what they feel is necessary. All I may hope for is to sway your conscience, and most don't want that personal space invaded.
I'm out of options. Piss people off if I have to. Crush Democrats. Promote 2A Republicans.
But everything we do from here on out is or doing. Yours, mine, everyone's. When we vote the results are are doing.
Don't forget to ensure there's a Day of Reckoning in the 2022 Primary Season. Off-year Congressional elections are the best time to purge RINOs with their lower turnout.
. Off-year Congressional elections are the best time to purge RINOs with their lower turnout.
Exactly. Give me a room of 90% Constitution supporting reps. and then let me cull that. Don't give me 25/25/50 Communist/Socialist/Conservative especially when the Conservatives are not sure if they are Socialists or not.
Not a single member on this forum is going to take up arms against a non-armed insurgency.
So your weapon is your vote.
Liberals own the coastline of USA. Does that sound strategic to anyone?
Diamondback
07-02-20, 21:56
Exactly. Give me a room of 90% Constitution supporting reps. and then let me cull that. Don't give me 25/25/50 Communist/Socialist/Conservative especially when the Conservatives are not sure if they are Socialists or not.
Not a single member on this forum is going to take up arms against a non-armed insurgency.
So your weapon is your vote.
Liberals own the coastline of USA. Does that sound strategic to anyone?
Yeah, it sounds like a strategy by foreign hostiles of "have friendly locals secure the beachheads." The Chinese and Russians won't NEED to do a Normandy, Tacloban or Inchon style landing when they can just sail in and use our own ports that their Fellow Travelers have already secured for them.
It's totally your doing.
If the 3rd wheel is a disadvantage to the 2A crowd it's their problem. If the 3rd wheel is a disadvantage to BLM it's their problem.
So why did you leave a gun unfriendly State again? For your conscience?
The time has come to vote for the team. Our team sucks and has a lot of 'graduated seniors' but is bound into The Constitution. Their team wants to rule your conscience.
What is it that non-Liberals don't understand about voting? No matter where you vote it impacts EVERYONE IN THE USA.
My personal message to ANYONE that helps about 95% of Democrats get elected is very simple..... FY, sorry you're an idiot. Granted there is a small segment that can cross the line either way depending on where you live.
Will, not directed at you personally. I do respect your professional knowledge and your power to vote. I just get so absolutely ****ing tired of the 'singularity' in the 'false community' that is the Conservative Party.
I'm watching organized Democrates burn my city again. It's due to USA voting and money. I actually don't live in the city but it really pains me to see Richmond become the anus of Virginia. It is greatly due regional and National 'conscience feelings'.
I can't fight back. I can't pick up a weapon and gather forces. All I can do vote. But I need the power of national current. So when someone votes for a loser it doesn't sit well with me.
Again, not personal, I think everyone should vote for what they feel is necessary. All I may hope for is to sway your conscience, and most don't want that personal space invaded.
I'm out of options. Piss people off if I have to. Crush Democrats. Promote 2A Republicans.
But everything we do from here on out is our doing. Yours, mine, everyone's. When we vote the results are our doing.
What I will say to all that is, last time I vote Libertarian because I was in a state where R votes didn't matter. FL being possible swing state and all the other factors at play, I will vote R this time. I'm in the group I call "reluctant Trump supporters" who are so disgusted by what they have seen from the left/Dems, I will vote Trump as an F U to them as much as anything. I suspect there's millions of people who feel similar and I tend to think he will will by a margin, no EC needed.
My thoughts on the issue in the last post didn't change however.
The two parties live on fear of the other guy politics and more interested in their hold on power than winning the WH ultimately and people who don't plan to vote as they hat both candidates should write in someone they like which says they're not failing to vote out of apathy or laziness, but the fact they don't like what the two parties are offering.
The two parties also don't like to discuss the fact there's now more independent voters than there are Dems or GOP. However, they still tend to vote along party lines, obviously they're sending a message. I also tend to think they might go for an independent or third party candidate under the right conditions.
I just love these "conscience" voters. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
I just love these "conscience" voters. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Some don't see the GOP or the DNC as "the solution" though I find the Dems by far the more worthless sacks of crap these days. I'm also encouraged by some of the up coming people in the GOP, unlike the Dems, who's newer members are even worse then the creatures they're replacing.
Some don't see the GOP or the DNC as "the solution" though I find the Dems by far the more worthless sacks of crap these days. I'm also encouraged by some of the up coming people in the GOP, unlike the Dems, who's newer members are even worse then the creatures they're replacing.
Agreed. I think the Republicans currently are showing more and more promise
Agreed. I think the Republicans currently are showing more and more promise
They really are, while the Dems are looking worse. Might make an interesting thread actually. Started here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224200-Rising-GOP-politicians-to-watch&p=2859058#post2859058
Is that a bad thing?
I feel like half the time the left and right just do and into their own changes.
If nothing got pasted nothing would get screwed up.
Ah crap, meant to quote previous post about if she won neither side would work with her.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-03-20, 14:05
If libertarian-minded are interested in making a difference they should run as republicans and vote republican, win elections and work from the inside. Need more Rand Pauls, not party-righteous libertarian losers.
If libertarian-minded are interested in making a difference they should run as republicans and vote republican, win elections and work from the inside. Need more Rand Pauls, not party-righteous libertarian losers.
The only GOP candidate I sent some $ to in 2016. That's who should be POTUS.
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