View Full Version : Couple in MO being held as 2A heroes...
While I have zero empathy for those protestors, I think we do ourselves a potential harm by making them some sort of 2A gun totin' heroes before we have the facts and know who they are. Right now, I see them as classic hypocrites, and I dislike that even more than legit anti gun types.
They did far more wrong than they did right in that event, and we 2A supporters best check out those who decide to stand with. Something does not smell right...
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/st-louis-state-senate-candidate-not-keeping-gun-toting-lawyer-s-campaign-contribution/article_d5646fbd-df82-5fd1-9683-0b90369825a6.html
They contribute to dems and anti gun dems and causes, and supposedly defended the looters in court pro bono. What?
I read they're registered Dems, then not. Regardless, what I smell is "guns for me, but not for thee" types, and until I know more, I'm not feelin' them. Secondarily, their gun handling, hers in particular, is truly cringeworthy to watch.
https://www.kmov.com/news/mccloskeys-say-they-support-blm-and-fight-for-civil-rights-but-were-victim-of-a/article_a0e263a6-bba7-11ea-810c-1f8dc2032ec7.html
That mob they were a "victim" of they helped create, but when the barbarians are at their gates (literally), the guns come out.
P2Vaircrewman
07-01-20, 11:51
Disregarding bad firearms handling and tactics, this was an excellent example of how the 2nd amendment was intended to work.
titsonritz
07-01-20, 11:59
Disregarding bad firearms handling and tactics, this was an excellent example of how the 2nd amendment was intended to work.
I think even more so, look even the clueless and untrained can prevail.
Disregarding bad firearms handling and tactics, this was an excellent example of how the 2nd amendment was intended to work.
If one wants to isolate it to just that event, sure. However, they're getting some hero warship on social media and they don't deserve any of it and are precisely the types we are fighting against. Maybe they will be of use to the narrative as people point out how fast such people see a value when it's them at risk, but right now, people are missing the irony of the event.
Lets all just be thankful he didn’t have a Hawaiian shirt on
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titsonritz
07-01-20, 12:18
Lets all just be thankful he didn’t have a Hawaiian shirt on
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Or a Nazi flag. As it turns out he has defended many black people in court.
Or a Nazi flag. As it turns out he has defended many black people in court.
No kidding.... [emoji849]
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SomeOtherGuy
07-01-20, 12:33
Mostly agree with Will. I'm all for appropriate armed self-defense and I wouldn't have enjoyed the protest march, but this looks more like brandishing by fence-sitting types than like any sort of principled 2A stand.
Lets all just be thankful he didn’t have a Hawaiian shirt on
That would have been awesome, given their politics and all the idiocy surrounding the "boogaloo" meme.
The lady reminded me of "Yolanda" from Pulp Fiction. (The restaurant robbery scene)
Samuel Jackson: "Tell that bitch to chill!"
Ringo: "Be cool hunny-bunny!"
teufelhund1918
07-01-20, 12:51
If one wants to isolate it to just that event, sure. However, they're getting some hero warship on social media and they don't deserve any of it and are precisely the types we are fighting against. Maybe they will be of use to the narrative as people point out how fast such people see a value when it's them at risk, but right now, people are missing the irony of the event.
Yea, it is ironic. Hopefully a wake up call for folks like this that the 2nd Amendment has a purpose and value along with showing him exactly what he has been defending is wrong... but not going to hold my breath...
BoringGuy45
07-01-20, 12:55
Too many 2A supporters are hailing them as badass heroes, and treating them like they're Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino growling "Get off my lawn!" THAT is a problem. They represent everything the left thinks is wrong with the right's stance on guns: Fat, white privileged boomers standing in the driveway of their mansion waving around an AR-15 at a bunch of black kids and telling them to get out of their rich, white neighborhood. Terrible PR.
This should be a moment of education: "Yes, for all those who said 'you don't need one of those weapons of war'...case and point, they're wrong. And yes, a person DOES have the right to defend their property. However, everything else those idiots did was wrong..."
I would not be surprised if they were arrested and that nice house burned in their absence.
If they aren't and it isnt it's only because they could afford the ransom.
Given their obvious upper class status I wonder if he has full rock-n-roll on that rifle.
Prob a cheap piece of crap he has never fired my guess :) the way his wife was holding hers they own guns nothing more
Given their obvious upper class status I wonder if he has full rock-n-roll on that rifle.
My thoughts
The whole neighborhood should have been at the gates the second the gate was breached all down !
Or stay inside but be ready and the second they touched the door all down
Haven’t read much on this, but given the claims that they are supporters of anti-gun groups, is it in any way likely that they agreed to “take a fall” to make a negative point about the 2A viewpoint? Not to get too conspiracy-minded about it or anything
Prob a cheap piece of crap he has never fired my guess :) the way his wife was holding hers they own guns nothing more
Eh, it is probably just a status symbol for him anyway. Having a full auto to show his buddies while sitting around the fireplace sipping 60 year old scotch is pretty cool. At the end of the day it did keep the riff raff off his lawn.
titsonritz
07-01-20, 14:05
Prob a cheap piece of crap he has never fired my guess :) the way his wife was holding hers they own guns nothing more
They probably picked them up last month amongst the other panic buyers.
Too many 2A supporters are hailing them as badass heroes, and treating them like they're Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino growling "Get off my lawn!" THAT is a problem. They represent everything the left thinks is wrong with the right's stance on guns: Fat, white privileged boomers standing in the driveway of their mansion waving around an AR-15 at a bunch of black kids and telling them to get out of their rich, white neighborhood. Terrible PR.
This should be a moment of education: "Yes, for all those who said 'you don't need one of those weapons of war'...case and point, they're wrong. And yes, a person DOES have the right to defend their property. However, everything else those idiots did was wrong..."
You sir, get it! These are not people the gun community should be hitching their wagon to at all and they are in fact a perfect example of those we are battling against.
NickySantoro
07-01-20, 16:15
Great opening post followed arrogant and stupid posts on an epic scale.
Averageman
07-01-20, 16:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZAyg0B0x_U
I believe we haven't seen the last of this.
It's like reverse "Jim Crow".
Diamondback
07-01-20, 17:05
I looked these two up at OpenSecrets. There are two Mark McCloskeys--the one in MO is a big Bush donor, the other in another state is the big Dem. Patricia McCloskey is a big, multi-time Trump donor.
Diamondback
07-01-20, 17:07
Haven’t read much on this, but given the claims that they are supporters of anti-gun groups, is it in any way likely that they agreed to “take a fall” to make a negative point about the 2A viewpoint? Not to get too conspiracy-minded about it or anything
Unlikely based on their donation history I noted above. It's possible, but in about the same class of likeliness as John Roberts spontaneously growing a pair of testicles and evolving into a man.
Given their obvious upper class status I wonder if he has full rock-n-roll on that rifle.
One of the close up pics of the rifle that I’ve seen shows no bayonet lug to be present so I suspect it’s one of the “neutered” A2 styled sporters that Colt put out. Perhaps the (gag) HBAR model.
Grand58742
07-01-20, 18:11
I look at it this way. Are they heroes? Debatable.
Did anyone die? Nope. Did the intent of the Second Amendment work (deterring tyranny)? Yep.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-01-20, 18:37
Lots of Karens in this thread. "They didn't America the way I wanted them to"
Armed citizens defended their private property that was unlawfully entered through a gate that was broken down by a mob of would be rioters/looters.
Given their obvious upper class status I wonder if he has full rock-n-roll on that rifle.
If you look closely it’s a Blue Label pre-94 Colt AR15.
The lady reminded me of "Yolanda" from Pulp Fiction. (The restaurant robbery scene)
Samuel Jackson: "Tell that bitch to chill!"
Ringo: "Be cool hunny-bunny!"
I suspect that's WHY it worked our for them. They know the usual law abiding gun owners who might have shown up at the door with plate carrier, rifle, and complimentary hawaiian or 80's neon ain't gonna do shit because they're to scared of the consequences; they think they still have something to lose.
A couple soft, white bread rich people panicking because suddenly the National Geo special is on their front lawn? Yeah, they're crazy enough to cap a fool if you keep scaring them, and probably rich enough to get away with it.
Lots of Karens in this thread. "They didn't America the way I wanted them to"
Armed citizens defended their private property that was unlawfully entered through a gate that was broken down by a mob of would be rioters/looters.
Ultimately, this. Sod all this handwringing bulls***. So they're not the Very Best Sort of people we want representing us; Maybe they're not big 2A supporters, or voted wrong, or donated wrong, or bitched out and groveled later.
Well, so what? You fight with the army you've had thrust upon you.
The sad fact of the matter is that a lot of other people have done nothing. The police have (mostly) done nothing. And it looks like most of the police and public at large aim to keep doing nothing while Rome burns.
These two DID something. The only thing the complainers are doing is giving ammo to the prosecution.
Luckily it worked out fine for all involved, so let's rejoice while the sun's still shining and we have some great propagantastic memes to share around, eh?
https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/Ebp3U4CXgAIh5Su.jpg
https://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/2020/06/29/052001/86306830/ken-karen-memes2.jpg
https://img.particlenews.com/img/id/4JjyMk_0PTAdmwk00?type=thumbnail_1024x576
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-01-20, 20:59
Lots of Karens in this thread. "They didn't America the way I wanted them to"
Armed citizens defended their private property that was unlawfully entered through a gate that was broken down by a mob of would be rioters/looters.
Yes. Thank you.
I suspect that's WHY it worked our for them. They know the usual law abiding gun owners who might have shown up at the door with plate carrier, rifle, and complimentary hawaiian or 80's neon ain't gonna do shit because they're to scared of the consequences; they think they still have something to lose.
A couple soft, white bread rich people panicking because suddenly the National Geo special is on their front lawn? Yeah, they're crazy enough to cap a fool if you keep scaring them, and probably rich enough to get away with it.
Ultimately, this. Sod all this handwringing bulls***. So they're not the Very Best Sort of people we want representing us; Maybe they're not big 2A supporters, or voted wrong, or donated wrong, or bitched out and groveled later.
Well, so what? You fight with the army you've had thrust upon you.
The sad fact of the matter is that a lot of other people have done nothing. The police have (mostly) done nothing. And it looks like most of the police and public at large aim to keep doing nothing while Rome burns.
These two DID something. The only thing the complainers are doing is giving ammo to the prosecution.
Luckily it worked out fine for all involved, so let's rejoice while the sun's still shining and we have some great propagantastic memes to share around, eh?
https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/Ebp3U4CXgAIh5Su.jpg
https://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/2020/06/29/052001/86306830/ken-karen-memes2.jpg
https://img.particlenews.com/img/id/4JjyMk_0PTAdmwk00?type=thumbnail_1024x576
I agree. This is like the recent thread where folks were complaining about Colt selling to the public again.
Too many 2A supporters are hailing them as badass heroes, and treating them like they're Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino growling "Get off my lawn!" THAT is a problem. They represent everything the left thinks is wrong with the right's stance on guns: Fat, white privileged boomers standing in the driveway of their mansion waving around an AR-15 at a bunch of black kids and telling them to get out of their rich, white neighborhood. Terrible PR.
This should be a moment of education: "Yes, for all those who said 'you don't need one of those weapons of war'...case and point, they're wrong. And yes, a person DOES have the right to defend their property. However, everything else those idiots did was wrong..."
Negative those are just the memes talking imo
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Looks to me like the extremists found some of their own.
BLM / Antifa vs. Liberal Leftist lawyers. Talk about win / win.
Activists see how quickly the knives come out should they stray upon the property of the hand that feeds them. Castle dwellers are made to understand even they are not safe in their gated communities and the very people they defend will come even for them.
I also love the optics. Wake up call for every liberal who thinks "I support BLM so I'm safe."
What the idiot left in this country doesn't understand they will be eaten by the marxist right after the revolution.
Lots of Karens in this thread. "They didn't America the way I wanted them to"
Armed citizens defended their private property that was unlawfully entered through a gate that was broken down by a mob of would be rioters/looters.
Yep, they showed initiative and faced down superior numbers.
Not sure where people are saying they’re bad ass hero’s. Lots of memes for sure but mostly humorous in nature. I wouldn’t go as far as hero status but fact of the matter is, they did what they should have done and what any of us would have done (I hope) in defending our own home/neighborhood. They obviously don’t have the same training as most of us here, but they accomplished the task without having to fire a shot (thank God).
And like it or not, these two are a much closer representation of the skill level of people you’ll likely need to band together with in your own neighborhood if the rioters/anarchist continue to move into residential areas. Maybe start thinking about how you’ll need to communicate and train these people in a crash course of safe gun handling and lawful self defense.
Grand58742
07-01-20, 23:49
Maybe start thinking about how you’ll need to communicate and train these people in a crash course of safe gun handling and lawful self defense.
First line of communication would be colorful adjectives and adverbs combined with "keep your booger hooker off the trigger, Karen!"
Not sure where people are saying they’re bad ass hero’s. Lots of memes for sure but mostly humorous in nature. I wouldn’t go as far as hero status but fact of the matter is, they did what they should have done and what any of us would have done (I hope) in defending our own home/neighborhood. They obviously don’t have the same training as most of us here, but they accomplished the task without having to fire a shot (thank God).
And like it or not, these two are a much closer representation of the skill level of people you’ll likely need to band together with in your own neighborhood if the rioters/anarchist continue to move into residential areas. Maybe start thinking about how you’ll need to communicate and train these people in a crash course of safe gun handling and lawful self defense.
I don't think either one of those people are interested in training.
In their mind they've "seen the elephant" even though that particular expression would be lost on them. They are likely more convinced that they absolutely know what they are doing because they happen to get lucky.
ThirdWatcher
07-02-20, 01:26
Disregarding bad firearms handling and tactics, this was an excellent example of how the 2nd amendment was intended to work.
This. I’ve read a lot of comments on this and other forums criticizing them for their tactics. Most people out there probably wouldn’t do as well. They successfully protected themselves and their property and that has to count for something. Living in a gated community with Security, they should have been free of this threat. They’ve paid their own way and I’m glad they were armed.
I believe his selection of an AR15 was pretty smart too, in that it was designed to be used effectively by a nineteen year old draftee (simple and instinctive to operate). It is an easy rifle to shoot (if necessary).
What the idiot left in this country doesn't understand they will be eaten by the marxist right after the revolution.
Exactly. They along with the MSM and the other idiots who are marching in the streets will be put against the wall by the Marxist when their usefulness ends.
Business_Casual
07-02-20, 05:51
Lots of Karens in this thread. "They didn't America the way I wanted them to"
Armed citizens defended their private property that was unlawfully entered through a gate that was broken down by a mob of would be rioters/looters.
Yeah, guys, the lack of support for using the 2nd they way it was designed is deplorable. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
This dude gets it:
https://youtu.be/7pEr0RuJh7Y
The rest of you don’t.
I look at them as no heroes, they just look like the typical gun owners. Just in the last three weeks, I was approached by an acquaintance CEO of a business that operate multi million dollars operation. He wanted an AR, he doesn't know what he wants, just an AR. He's never handled one, doesn't know what all the buttons, switches, levers are for. Six months ago, another CEO of a large insurance company approached me for the same reason. I've offered to take them to the range an give them an introduction to familiarize them with the AR, but neither has taken the offer. They both have guns, hunting rifles, shotguns, odd ball variety of handguns. But they don't train, they "carry" - that means keeping a handgun (dried up lube, a little rust here and there) in the glove box.
They now have a magic stick black rifle with 30 rounds that they will never ever shoot. Folks, that is very common.
I look at them as no heroes, they just look like the typical gun owners. Just in the last three weeks, I was approached by an acquaintance CEO of a business that operate multi million dollars operation. He wanted an AR, he doesn't know what he wants, just an AR. He's never handled one, doesn't know what all the buttons, switches, levers are for. Six months ago, another CEO of a large insurance company approached me for the same reason. I've offered to take them to the range an give them an introduction to familiarize them with the AR, but neither has taken the offer. They both have guns, hunting rifles, shotguns, odd ball variety of handguns. But they don't train, they "carry" - that means keeping a handgun (dried up lube, a little rust here and there) in the glove box.
They now have a magic stick black rifle with 30 rounds that they will never ever shoot. Folks, that is very common.
I believe it,
I really wonder what percentage of these new black rifle owners will take pause in supporting a political party that have no qualms about making them a felon.
ThirdWatcher
07-02-20, 07:03
I really wonder what percentage of these new black rifle owners will take pause in supporting a political party that have no qualms about making them a felon.
+1. They better “wake up and smell the coffee” before it’s too late. I’m sickened by the DA’s threats to prosecute these people. In my corner of the World what they did would be a non-event. We’d not make an arrest (due to lack of Probable Cause), write up a case report, and forward it to the Prosecuting Attorney for review. End of story.
They’re not heroes but they’ve done nothing wrong. This wouldn’t have even been newsworthy back in the day...
+1. They better “wake up and smell the coffee” before it’s too late. I’m sickened by the DA’s threats to prosecute these people. In my corner of the World what they did would be a non-event. We’d not make an arrest (due to lack of Probable Cause), write up a case report, and forward it to the Prosecuting Attorney for review. End of story.
They’re not heroes but they’ve done nothing wrong. This wouldn’t have even been newsworthy back in the day...
I was somewhat happy to hear the DA was threatening to prosecute two extremely wealthy lawyers for actions taken while legally defending their property. I am pretty sure no plea bargain would take place.
I don't know if I would call them heroes, but they got the main stream media to run a story about two Americans using firearms to defend their home. Triple bonus that one was an AR.
Andy
The lady reminded me of "Yolanda" from Pulp Fiction. (The restaurant robbery scene)
Samuel Jackson: "Tell that bitch to chill!"
Ringo: "Be cool hunny-bunny!"
LOL! That had me rolling.
I was somewhat happy to hear the DA was threatening to prosecute two extremely wealthy lawyers for actions taken while legally defending their property. I am pretty sure no plea bargain would take place.
I don't know if I would call them heroes, but they got the main stream media to run a story about two Americans using firearms to defend their home. Triple bonus that one was an AR.
Andy
Let me get this straight, you’re happy that someone who used the 2A to show force to stop a riot from happening in their neighborhood...is now possibly going to have charges brought on them for doing nothing wrong? Do you not understand what kind of precedence that sets? What message would that send to anyone else in that situation in the future?
The 2A isn’t just for you and other Hawaiian shirt wearing boog boys.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-02-20, 08:34
Not much interested in criticizing a successful defense of life and property by a middle-aged couple against an angry violent mob storming their home.
Seems to me they did quite well compared to some of what I've seen lately from 'trained' law enforcement.
https://i.imgur.com/L7uFFFh.png
https://i.imgur.com/AQ14mKS.png
I don't think either one of those people are interested in training.
In their mind they've "seen the elephant" even though that particular expression would be lost on them. They are likely more convinced that they absolutely know what they are doing because they happen to get lucky.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but taking a leadership role because you’re the only clearly qualified one in the neighborhood would not only be likely but prudent for your own sake.
Diamondback
07-02-20, 11:24
Not much interested in criticizing a successful defense of life and property by a middle-aged couple against an angry violent mob storming their home.
Seems to me they did quite well compared to some of what I've seen lately from 'trained' law enforcement.
https://i.imgur.com/L7uFFFh.png
https://i.imgur.com/AQ14mKS.png
You know the saying... "Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic." :p
ChattanoogaPhil
07-02-20, 11:40
Yep, they showed initiative and faced down superior numbers.
Yep, and that's a hell of a lot more than can be said for some (not all) 'trained' law enforcement agencies across the nation as they have stood to the side or fled the scene, abandoning law-abiding citizens to mob violence.
I understand it's in the hands of mayors and police chiefs than individual officers, but that doesn't change the reality of law-abiding citizens under attack by the mob while cops are hiding under the bed until the looting, arson and shooting subsides. "We also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that" seems to be a growing sentiment among authorities over the past few years, and even more popular the last few weeks.
Not much interested in criticizing a successful defense of life and property by a middle-aged couple against an angry violent mob storming their home.
Ad again, you et al missing the point: The couple supports BLM, has had pro bono work for looters, donates $ to anti gun Dems, and (my own impressions based on others of their ilk) likely for "reasonable gun control" to which usually means making sure the elite types have access, and you and I don't.
The "peaceful" protestors that showed up at their property exist due to people like them, and once the barbarians are they their gates, guns are now a good thing.
Get it yet? Sure, in isolation, a couple of people with no training kept a large group at bay. Good on them. They however are part of the problem we are dealing with vs he solution if one looks just a tad passed the 30 seconds of vid. What we have is those who thought they'd never have to face the mob cuz they're woke and hidden behind a gate, realizing the mob don't care.
Hence, while they may be an example of what's right about the 2A and 'Murica, they sure as hell are not an example of people we should support if we actually care about 2A Rights.
Maybe the silver lining is they become spokepeople for the value of being armed and all that.
Diamondback
07-02-20, 12:12
Will, there are a number DIFFERENT Mark McCloskeys in the OpenSecrets database. The Dem-donor MM is NOT the MM from Missouri, who was a big Bush League donor and his wife has written fat checks for Trump.
Mark T (R in MO) is not the same person as Mark Sean (D in PA), Mark A (D in CA) or the others in the list. http://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=mark+mccloskey&sort=N&type=donors
And Trump Backer Wife: http://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=patricia+mccloskey&sort=N&type=donors
Business_Casual
07-02-20, 12:37
Ad again, you et al missing the point: The couple supports BLM, has had pro bono work for looters, donates $ to anti gun Dems, and (my own impressions based on others of their ilk) likely for "reasonable gun control" to which usually means making sure the elite types have access, and you and I don't.
The "peaceful" protestors that showed up at their property exist due to people like them, and once the barbarians are they their gates, guns are now a good thing.
Get it yet? Sure, in isolation, a couple of people with no training kept a large group at bay. Good on them. They however are part of the problem we are dealing with vs he solution if one looks just a tad passed the 30 seconds of vid. What we have is those who thought they'd never have to face the mob cuz they're woke and hidden behind a gate, realizing the mob don't care.
Hence, while they may be an example of what's right about the 2A and 'Murica, they sure as hell are not an example of people we should support if we actually care about 2A Rights.
Get it yet?
No, I don’t. First off, I don’t see that was what you objected to originally. Secondly, one’s political beliefs don’t trump God given rights. We all know the saying that the difference between a liberal and a conservative is the liberal hasn’t been mugged yet. Lastly, everyone is entitled to representation, even people accused of things you disapprove of, because that is the only way to make sure the innocent don’t railroaded.
Quote - They did far more wrong than they did right in that event,
Quote - Secondarily, their gun handling, hers in particular, is truly cringeworthy to watch.
Will, there are a number DIFFERENT Mark McCloskeys in the OpenSecrets database. The Dem-donor MM is NOT the MM from Missouri, who was a big Bush League donor and his wife has written fat checks for Trump.
Mark T (R in MO) is not the same person as Mark Sean (D in PA), Mark A (D in CA) or the others in the list. http://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=mark+mccloskey&sort=N&type=donors
And Trump Backer Wife: http://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=patricia+mccloskey&sort=N&type=donors
I'm awares. But by their own words BLM supporters and so forth.
“My clients, as melanin-deficient human beings, are completely respectful of the message Black Lives Matter needs to get out, especially to whites,” said lawyer Albert Watkins.
Supposedly, pro bono work for looters, and so forth.
"On Monday, Rep. Steven Roberts, a St. Louis Democrat running for a state Senate seat, said his campaign won’t keep a $250 contribution he received last year from Mark McCloskey. He said he would donate it to Moms Demand Action, a group that pushes for stricter gun laws.
Campaign finance reports say Mark McCloskey has supported other Democratic candidates including a $3,250 donation to Russ Carnahan in 2016 when the former U.S. representative ran for lieutenant governor. McCloskey also supported Donald Trump’s election in 2016, according to Federal Election Commission records."
I'm just saying people should reserve their unfettered support for them until we know who/what they are before the hero worship starts and we (collective we who support 2A) end up with egg on our faces if they're wealthy white woke types who support "sensible gun control" and so forth.
Diamondback
07-02-20, 13:02
Fair 'nuff, we shouldn't hero-worship ANYBODY really.
No, I don’t. First off, I don’t see that was what you objected to originally. Secondly, one’s political beliefs don’t trump God given rights. We all know the saying that the difference between a liberal and a conservative is the liberal hasn’t been mugged yet. Lastly, everyone is entitled to representation, even people accused of things you disapprove of, because that is the only way to make sure the innocent don’t railroaded.
Quote - They did far more wrong than they did right in that event,
Quote - Secondarily, their gun handling, hers in particular, is truly cringeworthy to watch.
OK, so if they're BLM supporters who do pro bono legal work for looters, who donate to anti gun Dems, but like many of the woke liberal "guns for me not for thee" types out there who would see you and I disarmed, you can't fathom why we may not wanna leap to their defense and support as 2A heroes?
This does not seem complicated to me.
I just wanna know who we are dealing with before I do anything beyond supporting their 2A Rights as to not end up looking bad if they turn out to be classic lib hypocrites.
If so, does not mean we can't use that to our advantage also from a PR POV, but we need to know what we got first.
Ad again, you et al missing the point: The couple supports BLM, has had pro bono work for looters, donates $ to anti gun Dems, and (my own impressions based on others of their ilk) likely for "reasonable gun control" to which usually means making sure the elite types have access, and you and I don't.
The "peaceful" protestors that showed up at their property exist due to people like them, and once the barbarians are they their gates, guns are now a good thing.
Get it yet? Sure, in isolation, a couple of people with no training kept a large group at bay. Good on them. They however are part of the problem we are dealing with vs he solution if one looks just a tad passed the 30 seconds of vid. What we have is those who thought they'd never have to face the mob cuz they're woke and hidden behind a gate, realizing the mob don't care.
Hence, while they may be an example of what's right about the 2A and 'Murica, they sure as hell are not an example of people we should support if we actually care about 2A Rights.
Get it yet?
I think that's exactly why they've made a bit of a splash (along with the Seattle mayor's reaction to one measly demo on her lawn that these same protestors were on the way to). Steyr already put it perfectly;
Looks to me like the extremists found some of their own.
BLM / Antifa vs. Liberal Leftist lawyers. Talk about win / win.
Activists see how quickly the knives come out should they stray upon the property of the hand that feeds them. Castle dwellers are made to understand even they are not safe in their gated communities and the very people they defend will come even for them.
I also love the optics. Wake up call for every liberal who thinks "I support BLM so I'm safe."
Who cares "who" they are, and IF they are lefty supporters, EVEN BETTER.
Everything that's happening- the Chaz shootings/assault-rifle armed "security", the BLM and other protesters shooting at and threatening citizens and media, and now these soft, possibly sympathizer, suburbanites have come face to face with a mob...
The 2A debate (along with the 'peaceful protester' schtick) is effectively dead at this point; the left has killed it themselves. ALL of their bullshit arguments for bans and restrictions just got wrecked by themselves, in less than a month, along with much of much of the "go along to get along" mentality to many want to adopt in response to this leftist lunacy. "If we support them and kiss their feet they'll leave us alone".... or not. It's a great counterpoint to those who want to take the guns, yet have expensive taxpayer funded security details of their own, while leaving everyone else to fend off the lunatics by themselves. Even their supporters...
But instead of seizing the opportunity to push back on the official narrative a bit, we want to argue over whether or not certain people are good enough for us to condone their actions... This is much of what I mean when I bitch and moan about the Right "not doing anything".
As the social stupidity continues, you know this sort of event is going to start happening more and more, either by necessity due to threats and attacks, or by people who have just had enough.
This current case is just setting precedent for the future when others, maybe even some of us here, have to resort to similar means.
I dearly hope I'm 'good enough' for you all to support me if that ever happens.
Not sure where people are saying they’re bad ass hero’s. Lots of memes for sure but mostly humorous in nature. I wouldn’t go as far as hero status but fact of the matter is, they did what they should have done and what any of us would have done (I hope) in defending our own home/neighborhood. They obviously don’t have the same training as most of us here, but they accomplished the task without having to fire a shot (thank God).
And like it or not, these two are a much closer representation of the skill level of people you’ll likely need to band together with in your own neighborhood if the rioters/anarchist continue to move into residential areas. Maybe start thinking about how you’ll need to communicate and train these people in a crash course of safe gun handling and lawful self defense.
Exactly.
Put all the minutia aside, and if possible use it to educate, call to action, and organize. "It's ok to defend yourself and your property with the most effective means available when threatened". More importantly, the public has seen that it can occasionally even work without having to fire a shot.
Yeah, their gun handling kinda sucked; PERFECT! Now you can tell people "see, it worked out this time, but this is what you look like without planning, training and organization... hey what do you know, I can help you..."
Is it going to work for everyone? Probably not; the power of the "magic black stick" mentality is strong. But if you can just get one or two people to listen and act...
There are so many good ways we can make everything happening work for us... but we won't...
I agree. This is like the recent thread where folks were complaining about Colt selling to the public again.
While I don't entirely trust their motives, I do find it funny that people were willing to pay such a ridiculous premium for them when there were still plenty of perfectly good brands to pick from. I wonder if half the upset is due to people who are "invested" in the brand...
Looks to me like the extremists found some of their own.
BLM / Antifa vs. Liberal Leftist lawyers. Talk about win / win.
Activists see how quickly the knives come out should they stray upon the property of the hand that feeds them. Castle dwellers are made to understand even they are not safe in their gated communities and the very people they defend will come even for them.
I also love the optics. Wake up call for every liberal who thinks "I support BLM so I'm safe."
Well said, I appreciate the take on this.
https://youtu.be/pSImzrDAKC4
ChattanoogaPhil
07-02-20, 15:56
Ad again, you et al missing the point: The couple supports BLM, has had pro bono work for looters, donates $ to anti gun Dems, and (my own impressions based on others of their ilk) likely for "reasonable gun control" to which usually means making sure the elite types have access, and you and I don't.
The "peaceful" protestors that showed up at their property exist due to people like them, and once the barbarians are they their gates, guns are now a good thing.
Get it yet? Sure, in isolation, a couple of people with no training kept a large group at bay. Good on them. They however are part of the problem we are dealing with vs he solution if one looks just a tad passed the 30 seconds of vid. What we have is those who thought they'd never have to face the mob cuz they're woke and hidden behind a gate, realizing the mob don't care.
Hence, while they may be an example of what's right about the 2A and 'Murica, they sure as hell are not an example of people we should support if we actually care about 2A Rights.
Maybe the silver lining is they become spokepeople for the value of being armed and all that.
I "got" the point you were trying to make the first time I read it, thank you. I just thought it wasn't worth the effort to explain that acknowledging successful exercise of the 2A defending against the mob doesn't necessary translate to supporting the 'person' or any other agendas they may have. Instead, I chose to address comments criticizing the couple's lack of training, and put it in contrast to the utter failure of 'trained' agencies in dealing with the mob for the past few weeks.
That said, if what you say about the couple is true that's even better. I mean, if anti-gun kook Chuck Schumer successfully defended his home with an AR15 I'd pay for an electronic billboard celebrating his 'heroic' act.;)
A pretty good take on it.
https://youtu.be/MXzzIg4f04c
ChattanoogaPhil
07-02-20, 16:34
After watching that last video... I'll just quote myself and move along. Not much else to say.
Not much interested in criticizing a successful defense of life and property by a middle-aged couple against an angry violent mob storming their home.
Seems to me they did quite well compared to some of what I've seen lately from 'trained' law enforcement.
https://i.imgur.com/L7uFFFh.png
https://i.imgur.com/AQ14mKS.png
But instead of seizing the opportunity to push back on the official narrative a bit, we want to argue over whether or not certain people are good enough for us to condone their actions... This is much of what I mean when I bitch and moan about the Right "not doing anything".
As the social stupidity continues, you know this sort of event is going to start happening more and more, either by necessity due to threats and attacks, or by people who have just had enough.
This current case is just setting precedent for the future when others, maybe even some of us here, have to resort to similar means.
I dearly hope I'm 'good enough' for you all to support me if that ever happens.
Just so we are "same page", any discussion outside of this forum I'm of a "look what happened in MO" mindset. If you think you are safe in your gated castle...you aren't. And if people in gated castles aren't safe, then everyone needs the 2A to defend themselves against the angry mob who isn't just "might be coming" but already "making the rounds."
I think that's exactly why they've made a bit of a splash (along with the Seattle mayor's reaction to one measly demo on her lawn that these same protestors were on the way to). Steyr already put it perfectly;
Who cares "who" they are, and IF they are lefty supporters, EVEN BETTER.
Agreed, but that's if we position them properly, vs slobber over them and go "Oh, well, um, err" if it ends up they're not on out side per SteyrAUG excellent summary.
There's whole bunch of people slobbering over those two online vs saying "even a couple of BLM / Antifa vs. Liberal Leftist lawyers reach for the guns when the mob shows up on their front lawn" kinda angle.
Let me get this straight, you’re happy that someone who used the 2A to show force to stop a riot from happening in their neighborhood...is now possibly going to have charges brought on them for doing nothing wrong? Do you not understand what kind of precedence that sets? What message would that send to anyone else in that situation in the future?
The 2A isn’t just for you and other Hawaiian shirt wearing boog boys.
Hah, no. I am glad the prosecutor is going to have her ass handed to her. They have the money and connections to fight the charge. They may set a different precedent than they one you stated.
Maybe you should dial it back a little.
Andy
Belmont31R
07-02-20, 21:09
While I don't think they did anything wrong I hope they get charged and put through a trial and convicted so the rest of the rich class democrat supporters who live in a bubble get a clue.
Just speed up the process to where commies hold road side court and sentence people to death.
The big money leftists donors would switch sides real quick if they started getting charged with assault and gun crimes for defending their safe haven gated communities from the same commies they've been funding
While I don't think they did anything wrong I hope they get charged and put through a trial and convicted so the rest of the rich class democrat supporters who live in a bubble get a clue.
Just speed up the process to where commies hold road side court and sentence people to death.
The big money leftists donors would switch sides real quick if they started getting charged with assault and gun crimes for defending their safe haven gated communities from the same commies they've been funding
We’re living through a modern day CCP grade struggle session
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Belmont31R
07-02-20, 23:49
We’re living through a modern day CCP grade struggle session
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Their time will come. These rich leftist funders will stick around and not get charged so long as their money is more useful than the perception taking them to jail lasts.
Put the same scenario with a poor white community where the DA knows they won't face a serious defense and they'd already be in jail.
ThirdWatcher
07-02-20, 23:51
... one’s political beliefs don’t trump God given rights. We all know the saying that the difference between a liberal and a conservative is the liberal hasn’t been mugged yet. Lastly, everyone is entitled to representation, even people accused of things you disapprove of, because that is the only way to make sure the innocent don’t railroaded...
+1. Well said.
No, I don’t. First off, I don’t see that was what you objected to originally. Secondly, one’s political beliefs don’t trump God given rights. We all know the saying that the difference between a liberal and a conservative is the liberal hasn’t been mugged yet. Lastly, everyone is entitled to representation, even people accused of things you disapprove of, because that is the only way to make sure the innocent don’t railroaded.
Quote - They did far more wrong than they did right in that event,
Quote - Secondarily, their gun handling, hers in particular, is truly cringeworthy to watch.
**** them. You dont get to support undermining the Second Amendment for years and then claim its protection. It's a voluntary relinquishment of their rights- Hypocrisy, look it up.
No, they can "Call the police because no one needs a machine gun and a 100 round clipazine" just like they told all the "little people" for so long.
Their time will come. These rich leftist funders will stick around and not get charged so long as their money is more useful than the perception taking them to jail lasts.
Put the same scenario with a poor white community where the DA knows they won't face a serious defense and they'd already be in jail.
If they were some blue collar normies standing inside their fenced yard in a trailer park, they would be in jail with felony bails they cannot afford, their kids taken by social workers, their parents doxed and abused by retirement home "nurses", and everyone in their family fired by corporate SJWs.
Andy
If they were some blue collar normies standing inside their fenced yard in a trailer park, they would be in jail with felony bails they cannot afford, their kids taken by social workers, their parents doxed and abused by retirement home "nurses", and everyone in their family fired by corporate SJWs.
Andy
Exactly. They are the very worst kind of hypocritical scum. They supported the Carnahan Mob that vetoed Missouri CHL repeatedly.
It was so bad that a book was written about it, for those of you willing to forgive and forget go read Showdown in the Show Me State first. It was scorched earth denying the people of Missouri their rights. Also, the antagonist in Unintended Consequences is based on Carnahan!
So no, I wont hold these people up as some kind of Second Amendment heroes. Just because someone owns a gun, doesnt make them "One of us".
Question for all the people who are saying "They are just exercising their rights and we should support them "....Do you volunteer as an instructor for the John Brown Gun Club? They have a right to own guns, have many new members that need to learn about firearms, to train to better murder you....Are you one of Lenins "useful idiots"? The people he was thinking of when he said, "The capitalists will sell us the rope we use to hang them"?
So often people on our side say, "Who supports the cannon fodder burning shit in the streets, who finances them, pulls the strings"?These people in their own words defend BLM.....Well duh huh...
How does that rope feel?
Exactly. They are the very worst kind of hypocritical scum. They supported the Carnahan Mob that vetoed Missouri CHL repeatedly.
It was so bad that a book was written about it, for those of you willing to forgive and forget go read Showdown in the Show Me State first. It was scorched earth denying the people of Missouri their rights. Also, the antagonist in Unintended Consequences is based on Carnahan!
So no, I wont hold these people up as some kind of Second Amendment heroes. Just because someone owns a gun, doesnt make them "One of us".
Quoted for truths!
While I despise the politics of the couple from Missouri, I fully support their right to self defense.
While I despise the politics of the couple from Missouri, I fully support their right to self defense.
I'm past the "turn the other cheek" mentality. We are at the "all the marbles stage" of things and we cannot allow them to win, this is for keeps. You bow forever or you stand now. I will fight these people and those like them in every way possible. They are evil people who saw no problem in shitting all over the "little people" for years. Well, actions have consequences, or at least, they USED to.....You get to exercise the same rights you were willing to extend to others, no more, no less.
I'm past the "turn the other cheek" mentality. We are at the "all the marbles stage" of things and we cannot allow them to win, this is for keeps. You bow forever or you stand now. I will fight these people and those like them in every way possible. They are evil people who saw no problem in shitting all over the "little people" for years. Well, actions have consequences, or at least, they USED to.....You get to exercise the same rights you were willing to extend to others, no more, no less.
But there may be a win here if we position them correctly for our side and, they may have inadvertently convinced a lot of their ilk that guns do have a value and no amount to wokeness nor 911 is gonna save you when the barbarians are (literally) at the gate. Liberal anti gun heads are exploding as we speak...My main issue per OP etc was holding them up as 2A heroes cuz they aint.
So the mobs back at threatening to storm their house and kill them and their dog
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1279226403439837184?s=21
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So the mobs back at threatening to storm their house and kill them and their dog
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1279226403439837184?s=21
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They thought the money they gave to libreal causes would make the world a better place, hilarious
[wQUOTE=AndyLate;2859228]They thought the money they gave to libreal causes would make the world a better place, hilarious[/QUOTE]
Sort of like the store owners putting "BLM" on their windows hoping it would deter the looters. Nope, they got looted just like everyone else.
So the mobs back at threatening to storm their house and kill them and their dog
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1279226403439837184?s=21
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I worry for their dog.
Belmont31R
07-04-20, 00:49
So the mobs back at threatening to storm their house and kill them and their dog
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1279226403439837184?s=21
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Hilarious
BoringGuy45
07-04-20, 07:21
They thought the money they gave to libreal causes would make the world a better place, hilarious
It is, but that would be a spark to the powder keg. That would be the signal for BLM/Antifa to begin phase 2. No more burning down neighborhoods and rioting in the cities: They going to go into the suburbs, kick down the doors of people's houses and kill them.
If the government then starts arresting people who defend themselves, then it is time for revolution. If the penalty for defending our lives is prison or death, what is left to lose?
It is, but that would be a spark to the powder keg. That would be the signal for BLM/Antifa to begin phase 2. No more burning down neighborhoods and rioting in the cities: They going to go into the suburbs, kick down the doors of people's houses and kill them.
If the government then starts arresting people who defend themselves, then it is time for revolution. If the penalty for defending our lives is prison or death, what is left to lose?
If they start going into suburbs and burning houses to the ground maybe that will wake people up to what their true aim is.
Andy
If they start going into suburbs and burning houses to the ground maybe that will wake people up to what their true aim is.
Andy
63037
63037
A month without a hog food bill would be welcome.....They eat like, well, you know....
PracticalRifleman
07-05-20, 08:52
While I don't entirely trust their motives, I do find it funny that people were willing to pay such a ridiculous premium for them when there were still plenty of perfectly good brands to pick from. I wonder if half the upset is due to people who are "invested" in the brand...
I’m pretty sure Colt’s motives are clear and the same of any company: make a profit.
When Colt won two simultaneous new contracts, they were forced with a decision. AR15s weren’t selling and commercial sales were not profitable. They either had to convert their commercial line to make contract numbers or start another line. They even said they would resume commercial sales when it was profitable.
The purpose of business is to make profit. I’m not sure what nefariousness you think Colt is up to.
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I’m pretty sure Colt’s motives are clear and the same of any company: make a profit.
When Colt won two simultaneous new contracts, they were forced with a decision. AR15s weren’t selling and commercial sales were not profitable. They either had to convert their commercial line to make contract numbers or start another line. They even said they would resume commercial sales when it was profitable.
The purpose of business is to make profit. I’m not sure what nefariousness you think Colt is up to.
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Too much logic and reasoning. Please report to Internet Reeducation.
Repeat after me: Colt hates us. HK hates us.
AwaySooner
07-10-20, 23:42
Warrant Served On St. Louis Couple Who Defended Private Property, Rifle Confiscated, Report Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-warrant-served-on-st-louis-couple-who-defended-private-property-guns-confiscated-report-says)
BoringGuy45
07-10-20, 23:48
The hour is getting closer...
ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 23:50
Warrant Served On St. Louis Couple Who Defended Private Property, Rifle Confiscated, Report Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-warrant-served-on-st-louis-couple-who-defended-private-property-guns-confiscated-report-says)
https://media2.giphy.com/media/VhLDaKFRBgB66IcUuj/giphy.gif
Diamondback
07-11-20, 00:24
Warrant Served On St. Louis Couple Who Defended Private Property, Rifle Confiscated, Report Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-warrant-served-on-st-louis-couple-who-defended-private-property-guns-confiscated-report-says)
BLM sent gold-plated invitation. "Welcome rioters, terrorists and sundry other shitstain vermin. Come one, come all!"
hotrodder636
07-11-20, 01:38
Wow. I didn’t see what the charges were...did I miss them? This is wild.
Warrant Served On St. Louis Couple Who Defended Private Property, Rifle Confiscated, Report Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-warrant-served-on-st-louis-couple-who-defended-private-property-guns-confiscated-report-says)
Warrant Served On St. Louis Couple Who Defended Private Property, Rifle Confiscated, Report Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-warrant-served-on-st-louis-couple-who-defended-private-property-guns-confiscated-report-says)
This is where we should draw the line. The left if advertising that these homeowners are now defenseless and have no firearms to protect themselves. In my mind its almost a guarantee that protesters will return and may cause harm to the homeowners and their property.
Do we need to make a trip up to St Louis?
If you didnt already know what The Rules are for the coming unpleasantries.....now you do. Oh, and those rules...include burying a "spare" widget or two....
PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 06:49
This is where we should draw the line. The left if advertising that these homeowners are now defenseless and have no firearms to protect themselves. In my mind its almost a guarantee that protesters will return and may cause harm to the homeowners and their property.
Do we need to make a trip up to St Louis?
Yes. About 500 people. And go to Kimberly Gardner’s house. She’s a worthless human being a left-wing radical who has been a problem before.
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Odd times indeed,
It almost seems as if certain "blue" jurisdictions are almost encouraging a Chris Dormer type response. They have been in charge of these systems for the past 40 years, they have created an environment that that has allowed protest to turn into riots and looting. They have created an environment where LE is no longer willing to respond, and when a home owner, aggressively says leave me the hell alone after a non permitted protest kicks down their security gates and starts talking shit. they charge them and publically take their means of defense.
It is only going to be a matter of time until somebody says **** it. why not.
Odd times indeed,
It almost seems as if certain "blue" jurisdictions are almost encouraging a Chris Dormer type response. They have been in charge of these systems for the past 40 years, they have created an environment that that has allowed protest to turn into riots and looting. They have created an environment where LE is no longer willing to respond, and when a home owner, aggressively says leave me the hell alone after a non permitted protest kicks down their security gates and starts talking shit. they charge them and publically take their means of defense.
It is only going to be a matter of time until somebody says **** it. why not.
To quote Unintended Consequences...."After the first one, theyre ALL FREE"....
To quote Unintended Consequences...."After the first one, theyre ALL FREE"....
Indeed.
Yes. About 500 people. And go to Kimberly Gardner’s house. She’s a worthless human being a left-wing radical who has been a problem before.
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I wonder if the 500 people kicked down the gate to her property and protested outside her house if she would have the protesters arrested?
Take their means of self defense without due process?
Missouri couple who defended home have rifle seized during police search: report
Authorities in St. Louis executed a search warrant Friday evening at the home of Mark and Patricia McCloskey, the couple who made headlines last month when they took up arms to defend their homes from protesters.
During the search, police seized the rifle that Mark McCloskey was shown holding during the June 28 incident, KSDK-TV of St. Louis reported, citing information from a source.
The pistol that Patricia McCloskey held during the June confrontation was already in the possession of the couple’s attorney, the station reported.
There was no immediate indication that the McCloskeys were arrested or charged with a crime.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/missouri-couple-who-defended-home-have-rifle-seized-during-police-search-report/ar-BB16B7pK?li=BBnb7Kz
The left used the police as a weapon against people who committed no crime besides defending themselves? And the police went along with this unconstitutional act and confiscated weapons? Shocking.
The left used the police as a weapon against people who committed no crime besides defending themselves? And the police went along with this unconstitutional act and confiscated weapons? Shocking.
Exactly. This kind of shit has been going on for years. Hell, decades really.
Exactly. This kind of shit has been going on for years. Hell, decades really.
Newsflash. The police, mostly protect scumbags from the righteous wrath of their victims.....
I dont like these people and am on record as such. However, this might be OUR George Floyd moment....if anything happens to them....well, daddy needs a new big screen and to "enlighten" some politicians.....
I just cannot get over the irony of the way the very people they helped into office are treating them, the same way they wanted those "alt-right" conservatives treated. You lie down with dogs, you get fleas. Screw 'em.
Andy
BoringGuy45
07-11-20, 09:14
The left used the police as a weapon against people who committed no crime besides defending themselves? And the police went along with this unconstitutional act and confiscated weapons? Shocking.
Too many mercenary types among law enforcement. There's a small minority that are leftists. There's a larger group that have no opinion on any matter, and simply follow orders. And then there are those who may disagree with what they're being told, but they "gots bills to pay".
When I first went in to law enforcement, I figured the percentage of what I'd consider "Patriots" was probably 80 percent or better; now, I'd say it's probably 60/40, at least in the NE where I've been. It shocked me to hear people say they would follow an order to confiscate weapons from law-abiding civilians
ruckusjuice
07-11-20, 09:31
Take their means of self defense without due process?
This IS due process. The police drafted a search and seizure warrant. They took it to a judge. A judge reviewed it and found probable cause that a crime was committed and the property to be seized is evidence of the crime. That’s the foundation of our legal system. Had the police been present at the scene during the events in question, they could have seized the guns there and then. Since the police were collecting evidence after the fact, the appropriate action is to apply for a search and seizure warrant. The video alone is enough for probable cause.
Nothing is stopping the McCloskeys from using other firearms they own for defense or buying new firearms if they wish. The AR and the little handgun are the only firearms sought because they’re the only ones with evidentiary value.
So what crime are they saying was committed?
john armond
07-11-20, 09:38
I work with one LEO who has explicitly stated the general public shouldn’t own AR15s, and he would gladly go confiscating them.
While I have zero empathy for those protestors, I think we do ourselves a potential harm by making them some sort of 2A gun totin' heroes before we have the facts and know who they are. Right now, I see them as classic hypocrites, and I dislike that even more than legit anti gun types.
They did far more wrong than they did right in that event, and we 2A supporters best check out those who decide to stand with. Something does not smell right...
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/st-louis-state-senate-candidate-not-keeping-gun-toting-lawyer-s-campaign-contribution/article_d5646fbd-df82-5fd1-9683-0b90369825a6.html
They contribute to dems and anti gun dems and causes, and supposedly defended the looters in court pro bono. What?
I read they're registered Dems, then not. Regardless, what I smell is "guns for me, but not for thee" types, and until I know more, I'm not feelin' them. Secondarily, their gun handling, hers in particular, is truly cringeworthy to watch.
https://www.kmov.com/news/mccloskeys-say-they-support-blm-and-fight-for-civil-rights-but-were-victim-of-a/article_a0e263a6-bba7-11ea-810c-1f8dc2032ec7.html
That mob they were a "victim" of they helped create, but when the barbarians are at their gates (literally), the guns come out.
I have to strongly disagree. While I do not like much of anything about this couple, they still have the right, in my opinion, to defend themselves and their property. And I support that.
I also oppose unequal application of the law. The rioters and thugs frequently go unpunished, while people who resist lawlessness are "investigated" until they can pin some type crime on them.
So, was this couple supposed to allow their home to be burnt down? Were they supposed to allow themselves to be injured or killed?
Maybe they learned a lesson?
I like the saying, "A republican is a liberal who got mugged."
Business_Casual
07-11-20, 09:49
Weren’t there protesters carrying weapons as well? Also they trespassed - lol is there such thing as aggravated trespass?
ruckusjuice
07-11-20, 09:53
So what crime are they saying was committed?
I don’t believe they’ve been charged with any crimes yet but, from your experience, you already know that warrants are often used to gather evidence prior to any charges. I’m not familiar with MO law and can’t tell you exactly which charges the couple could potentially face. A similar situation in jurisdictions I am more familiar with could result in charges such as reckless endangerment, brandishing, assault/battery in various degrees, etc.
By definition, anything you do in self defense is a crime. Punching someone, choking them out, point or firing guns at them are all illegal. Self defense is an affirmative defense in which the defendant acknowledges they committed the alleged conduct but argues that the conduct was justified based on a reason such as self defense. Because of how politicized this situation and national circumstances are right now, I’m not surprised that the local prosecutor appears to be moving towards bringing the case to a Grand Jury and letting someone else decide if self defense applies.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-11-20, 10:09
Weren’t there protesters carrying weapons as well? Also they trespassed - lol is there such thing as aggravated trespass?
In Tennessee, yes. Fits this discussion perfectly.
39-14-406. Aggravated criminal trespass.
(a) A person commits aggravated criminal trespass who enters or remains on property when:
(1) The person knows the person does not have the property owner's effective consent to do so; and
(2) The person intends, knows, or is reckless about whether such person's presence will cause fear for the safety of another.
This IS due process. The police drafted a search and seizure warrant. They took it to a judge. A judge reviewed it and found probable cause that a crime was committed and the property to be seized is evidence of the crime. That’s the foundation of our legal system. Had the police been present at the scene during the events in question, they could have seized the guns there and then. Since the police were collecting evidence after the fact, the appropriate action is to apply for a search and seizure warrant. The video alone is enough for probable cause.
Nothing is stopping the McCloskeys from using other firearms they own for defense or buying new firearms if they wish. The AR and the little handgun are the only firearms sought because they’re the only ones with evidentiary value.
I don't know MO law, but only charge that seems apparent might be brandishing? She was waving that thing around like it was a cell phone or something, and per OP, I found it truly cringeworthy to watch myself.
I have to strongly disagree. While I do not like much of anything about this couple, they still have the right, in my opinion, to defend themselves and their property. And I support that.
I also oppose unequal application of the law. The rioters and thugs frequently go unpunished, while people who resist lawlessness are "investigated" until they can pin some type crime on them.
So, was this couple supposed to allow their home to be burnt down? Were they supposed to allow themselves to be injured or killed?
Maybe they learned a lesson?
I like the saying, "A republican is a liberal who got mugged."
I have fought these type of scum for my rights my entire life. Im not feeling very magnanimous. The rule as far as im concerned is, you get the same rights you support others having, no more, no less. Choices have consequences.
Their only value to me is to enflame my side and any who might be on the fence who can be reached. Otherwise, i hope the howling mob they fostered tears them limb from limb.
I have to strongly disagree. While I do not like much of anything about this couple, they still have the right, in my opinion, to defend themselves and their property. And I support that.
I also oppose unequal application of the law. The rioters and thugs frequently go unpunished, while people who resist lawlessness are "investigated" until they can pin some type crime on them.
So, was this couple supposed to allow their home to be burnt down? Were they supposed to allow themselves to be injured or killed?
Maybe they learned a lesson?
I like the saying, "A republican is a liberal who got mugged."
And we agree on that, and no place did I say they didn't have their 2A Rights. They are however classic hypocrites and should not be held up as 2A gun totin' heroes. They're not on "our" side per se. However, after this experience I suspect they and others probably will be!
I think this event works well for our side, but needs to be viewed and positioned appropriately per other comments in this thread.
2A gun totin' heroes they aint.
ruckusjuice
07-11-20, 10:29
I don't know MO law, but only charge that seems apparent might be brandishing? She was waving that thing around like it was a cell phone or something, and per OP, I found it truly cringeworthy to watch myself.
Again, I’m also unfamiliar with MO statutes but the actions of the couple could be consistent with several different criminal statutes in the jurisdictions I am more familiar with. People really shouldn’t freak out about the seizure of the firearms in this case. It’s not infringing on the McCloskeys’ second amendment rights to any severe degree. They are still allowed to own and use firearms. They just can’t have these two specific guns right now because these two guns are evidence in an investigation.
It would be the same if someone tried to rob you at knifepoint and you shot them, resulting in their death. The police would investigate the case as a homicide, because that’s what the killing of one person by another is. Homicide is generally a crime. Any warrants the police would draft to collect other evidence would cite the crime of homicide or whatever your jurisdiction’s wording of that would be. Your firearm would likely be confiscated because it has evidentiary value in the investigation. At some point in this process, which is your due process, you would be able to raise the affirmative defense of self defense. Maybe the prosecutor would determine that your shooting of the robber was self defense and end things at his/her level. Maybe the prosecutor decides to take it to grand jury based on the legal standards of the jurisdiction. The grand jury would get to decide if your case was self defense. Maybe the grand jury decides that your shooting of the robber was more likely than not a criminal act and you get a true bill of indictment. Then your case goes to trial and a jury gets to decide if your shooting was a criminal homicide or self defense.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-11-20, 10:38
Was the gate seized as evidence?
------
The pair called the St. Louis Police Department shortly before 7:30 p.m. Sunday. They told arriving officers that they had heard a "commotion" and, upon investigating further, “observed a large group of subjects forcefully break an iron gate marked with ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Private Street' signs,” according to an incident summary provided to Fox News by the department.
https://i.imgur.com/5AWGpyi.jpg
Again, I’m also unfamiliar with MO statutes but the actions of the couple could be consistent with several different criminal statutes in the jurisdictions I am more familiar with. People really shouldn’t freak out about the seizure of the firearms in this case. It’s not infringing on the McCloskeys’ second amendment rights to any severe degree. They are still allowed to own and use firearms. They just can’t have these two specific guns right now because these two guns are evidence in an investigation.
It would be the same if someone tried to rob you at knifepoint and you shot them, resulting in their death. The police would investigate the case as a homicide, because that’s what the killing of one person by another is. Homicide is generally a crime. Any warrants the police would draft to collect other evidence would cite the crime of homicide or whatever your jurisdiction’s wording of that would be. Your firearm would likely be confiscated because it has evidentiary value in the investigation. At some point in this process, which is your due process, you would be able to raise the affirmative defense of self defense. Maybe the prosecutor would determine that your shooting of the robber was self defense and end things at his/her level. Maybe the prosecutor decides to take it to grand jury based on the legal standards of the jurisdiction. The grand jury would get to decide if your case was self defense. Maybe the grand jury decides that your shooting of the robber was more likely than not a criminal act and you get a true bill of indictment. Then your case goes to trial and a jury gets to decide if your shooting was a criminal homicide or self defense.
Oh, I think we all understand "the process" quite well. Thats not the issue here.
The issue is that this is clearly a political message being sent- "Let the Goblins, loot, rape, beat and murder.The police, will do NOTHING to protect you. Your job is to die quietly. If you resist in any way, you WILL be punished".
If people can't see this for what it is, they are F'ing morons.
Was the gate seized as evidence?
------
The pair called the St. Louis Police Department shortly before 7:30 p.m. Sunday. They told arriving officers that they had heard a "commotion" and, upon investigating further, “observed a large group of subjects forcefully break an iron gate marked with ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Private Street' signs,” according to an incident summary provided to Fox News by the department.
See my comment above. That is the ONLY explanation that makes sense in this case. Stow your friggen cognitive dissonance before it gets you or someone you care about maimed or killed. This aint 1950 White Bread America folks and you best adjust accordingly.....
Oh, I think we all understand "the process" quite well. Thats not the issue here.
The issue is that this is clearly a political message being sent- "Let the Goblins, loot, rape, beat and murder.The police, will do NOTHING to protect you. Your job is to die quietly. If you resist in any way, you WILL be punished".
If people can't see this for what it is, they are F'ing morons.
But both what he's saying and what you're saying can be accurate and are not mutually exclusive to each other. There's no doubt this is about sending a message that's more politically motivated than legally. That they happen to be attorneys, white woke and wealthy, will play in our favor if "we" are smart about it.
That even the white woke and wealthy can get charged over that is gonna freak out a lot of white woke and wealthy types too who probably thought they were immune to such legal entanglements.
Honestly, from out POV, charging them may be a win as even the most white woke and wealthy will like "WTF?"
But both what he's saying and what you're saying can be accurate and are not mutually exclusive to each other. There's no doubt this is about sending a message that's more politically motivated than legally. That they happen to be attorneys, white woke and wealthy, will play in our favor if "we" are smart about it.
That even the white woke and wealthy can get charged over that is gonna freak out a lot of white woke and wealthy types too who probably thought they were immune to such legal entanglements.
Honestly, from out POV, charging them may be a win as even the most white woke and wealthy will like "WTF?"
As I said earlier, these people have propaganda-lets call it what it actually is unlike the Leftists, value. But other than that, i don't care what happens to them, in fact, the worse the better actually.....
Being woke and wealthy lawyers I wonder how much they have donated to the local ComDem party? Probably even donated to the DA that is prosecuting them. What was said in another thread is true- when armed people start standing up to the mob they will have the full weight of the government thrown at them. Law enforcement won’t stop the rioters, looters, arsonists and murderers but they darn sure will come after you if you try to stop those criminals.
As I said earlier, these people have propaganda-lets call it what it actually is unlike the Leftists, value. But other than that, i don't care what happens to them, in fact, the worse the better actually.....
Here's my take on this. Ok, they're Leftists, but they seem to understand the Capitalist system and how to make money - lots of it. They're also gun owners who understand the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for personal defense, and they weren't afraid to arm themselves. This gives us some commonality with these people. I'd like to actually sit down with them and compare notes on politics and the direction of America. It is not uncommon for people to be left leaning and experience a life changing event which pushes them further Right. I wouldn't write them off yet.
If they could experience credible, Right members of society, they could see a definite distinction between responsible, patriotic Americans and that rabble running wild in their area.
Here's my take on this. Ok, they're Leftists, but they seem to understand the Capitalist system and how to make money - lots of it. They're also gun owners who understand the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for personal defense, and they weren't afraid to arm themselves. This gives us some commonality with these people. I'd like to actually sit down with them and compare notes on politics and the direction of America. It is not uncommon for people to be left leaning and experience a life changing event which pushes them further Right. I wouldn't write them off yet.
If they could experience credible, Right members of society, they could see a definite distinction between responsible, patriotic Americans and that rabble running wild in their area.
These folks are in their 60s. They are clearly well educated and sophisticated. They admit to defending criminals and scum---they SAW FIRSTHAND HOW BAD THINGS HAPPEN-but since it didn't affect them, well, the little people can suck it.....
At some point they made a choice. A conscious choice, now they can live with it. If they were 25, with little life experience etc....I get it, people make mistakes, they can change, but they are past that. Im not Jesus and you can keep your 11th hour conversions!
Oh, I think we all understand "the process" quite well. Thats not the issue here.
The issue is that this is clearly a political message being sent- "Let the Goblins, loot, rape, beat and murder.The police, will do NOTHING to protect you. Your job is to die quietly. If you resist in any way, you WILL be punished".
If people can't see this for what it is, they are F'ing morons.
This.
We’re now living in upside down world. Nobody wants to go on the offensive against a hate group and movement for fear of being called a racist, white supremacist, or whatever the alphabet retards keep coming up with but god dammit we’re going to cherry pick the low hanging fruit of regular folks and make an example out of them.
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As I said earlier, these people have propaganda-lets call it what it actually is unlike the Leftists, value. But other than that, i don't care what happens to them, in fact, the worse the better actually.....
Precisely my thoughts.
These folks are in their 60s. They are clearly well educated and sophisticated. They admit to defending criminals and scum---they SAW FIRSTHAND HOW BAD THINGS HAPPEN-but since it didn't affect them, well, the little people can suck it.....
At some point they made a choice. A conscious choice, now they can live with it. If they were 25, with little life experience etc....I get it, people make mistakes, they can change, but they are past that. Im not Jesus and you can keep your 11th hour conversions!
But that's what lawyers do - they defend criminals and scum. It's an integral part of the job. What I have detected in many posts all over the internet is more of a class envy situation - nothing worse than Limousine Liberals. If these folks were in a trailer park defending their run down single-wide, they wouldn't catch as much grief even if they were left leaning.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-11-20, 11:51
I looked these two up at OpenSecrets. There are two Mark McCloskeys--the one in MO is a big Bush donor, the other in another state is the big Dem. Patricia McCloskey is a big, multi-time Trump donor.
FEC website. https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=mark+mccloskey&contributor_city=st+louis
These are the St Louis "Leftists".
Contributor name Recipient State Employer Receipt date Amount
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 11/03/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 11/03/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 -$400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/01/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/01/2016 $100.00
But that's what lawyers do - they defend criminals and scum. It's an integral part of the job. What I have detected in many posts all over the internet is more of a class envy situation - nothing worse than Limousine Liberals. If these folks were in a trailer park defending their run down single-wide, they wouldn't catch as much grief even if they were left leaning.
But these people are INJURY attorneys, not criminal defense attorneys. They take the BLM cases etc...for purely personal, political reasons.
Like the giant corporate law firms that have offices on 7 continents who produce little of real value but market chaos which they arbitrage. They have a "social justice" project that tries to get the most murderous scum in the world off Death Row so they have something to talk about at press releases and cocktail parties...
But these people are INJURY attorneys, not criminal defense attorneys. They take the BLM cases etc...for purely personal, political reasons.
Like the giant corporate law firms that have offices on 7 continents who produce little of real value but market chaos which they arbitrage. They have a "social justice" project that tries to get the most murderous scum in the world off Death Row so they have something to talk about at press releases and cocktail parties...
Bankruptcy attorneys are considered the low life's of that profession as well - they help people who overspend and can't control themselves financially get out of paying for credit cards and other bills they ran up. There must be a big demand for these ambulance chasing lawyers because they are advertising all the time on TV, and heading from Texas into Louisiana, I see billboards all over for these lawyers. A lawyer doesn't exist unless there is a victim, and the United States is full of victims it seems.
The McCloskeys of the world aren't the cause of our social decay, they are only a symptom of it. They're not the predator, they're the scavenger. To end it would mean people would have to stop thinking there are things to be gotten in life for free. I don't see that happening. And of that money to be gotten, the McCloskeys of the world only get 1/3rd. In our world, it's all about getting your piece of the action, no matter what it is.
We could also get into a discussion of TV Preachers...now they're the predators.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-11-20, 13:45
But that's what lawyers do - they defend criminals and scum.
True. I think some folks are conflating people and cases that attorneys are involved with and the personal life of attorneys.
I don't know these Trump and RNC supporters in St Louis... they may be horrible people, maybe not. That said, according the FEC they gave more money to Trump than I did in 2016, and they successfully defended their lives and property against an angry mob of hundreds which is one more angry mob than I have had to defend against. Beyond that, I'll defer to others who personally known them, and those experienced with singlehandedly fending off storming angry mobs. Anyone?
PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 14:20
I work with one LEO who has explicitly stated the general public shouldn’t own AR15s, and he would gladly go confiscating them.
Cool. On day one I hope he gets what’s coming to him.
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PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 14:23
I don't know MO law, but only charge that seems apparent might be brandishing? She was waving that thing around like it was a cell phone or something, and per OP, I found it truly cringeworthy to watch myself.
Missouri is open carry and displaying a weapon when threatened and you can articulate you were in fear of physical harm of self or property is not brandishing. The fact they were in their own property makes their case stronger.
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Missouri is open carry and displaying a weapon when threatened and you can articulate you were in fear of physical harm of self or property is not brandishing. The fact they were in their own property makes their case stronger.
It seems really unlikely to me the charges stick (but we still don't know what they are), but that does not mean the DA can't make their lives miserable and cost them a lot of $ defending themselves, which is often the goal when/if they want to make an example of someone.
So after the dust settled, the police showed up and arrested the rifle. :blink:
Previously, St Louis Circuit Atty. Kimberly Gardner stated explicitly they "will use the full power of Missouri law to hold people accountable." Meaning the McKulskeys, not the protestors.
Here's an interesting, but non-flattering, article from the St. Louis Dispatch. These people remind me of lower level robber barons from the late 19th Century - the ones who built various companies like Coca Cola or Post Cereal:
Portland Place couple who confronted protesters have a long history of not backing down
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/portland-place-couple-who-confronted-protesters-have-a-long-history-of-not-backing-down/article_281d9989-373e-53c3-abcb-ecd0225dd287.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 17:25
It seems really unlikely to me the charges stick (but we still don't know what they are), but that does not mean the DA can't make their lives miserable and cost them a lot of $ defending themselves, which is often the goal when/if they want to make an example of someone.
Yup. This DA needs taken down.
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Here's an interesting, but non-flattering, article from the St. Louis Dispatch. These people remind me of lower level robber barons from the late 19th Century - the ones who built various companies like Coca Cola or Post Cereal:
Portland Place couple who confronted protesters have a long history of not backing down
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/portland-place-couple-who-confronted-protesters-have-a-long-history-of-not-backing-down/article_281d9989-373e-53c3-abcb-ecd0225dd287.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
Even the most despicable people have rights, and the right to protect your home has been clear in western society far longer than the U.S. has existed. DA gonna lose hard.
Even the most despicable people have rights, and the right to protect your home has been clear in western society far longer than the U.S. has existed. DA gonna lose hard.
Of course they do. I don't know them, and it seems there is a question of whether they are Leftist cause supporters or Republican donors, I haven't researched. They're lawyers who live in huge mansion inside a gated, exclusive community. These factors are a turn-off for a lot of folks - I don't care. They could be despicable people and rotten citizens. There's lots of people like that in the Country. The fact is they pointed guns at other rotten people that I don't like. That's a plus for me.
This is a case where the Enemy of my Enemy isn't necessarily my Friend....but I wouldn't call them an Enemy either. Strange bedfellows in this wacky world.
Diamondback
07-11-20, 18:42
This is a case where the Enemy of my Enemy isn't necessarily my Friend....but I wouldn't call them an Enemy either. Strange bedfellows in this wacky world.
Version I heard growing up among Leftist Elite kids was "The enemy of my enemy is a problem for another day... in the meantime, until they become a problem see if you can make a useful pawn or other tool of them."
Diamondback
07-11-20, 18:43
Yup. This DA needs taken down.
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She needs a good old-fashioned Recall... preferably with a trip into the dock of her own on Prosecutorial Misconduct charges.
Version I heard growing up among Leftist Elite kids was "The enemy of my enemy is a problem for another day... in the meantime, until they become a problem see if you can make a useful pawn or other tool of them."
And Marxists have another term for certain members of society: "Useful Idiots".
Diamondback
07-11-20, 19:30
And Marxists have another term for certain members of society: "Useful Idiots".
Yes, my classmates and their parents used that one too. :)
I have to strongly disagree. While I do not like much of anything about this couple, they still have the right, in my opinion, to defend themselves and their property. And I support that.
I also oppose unequal application of the law. The rioters and thugs frequently go unpunished, while people who resist lawlessness are "investigated" until they can pin some type crime on them.
So, was this couple supposed to allow their home to be burnt down? Were they supposed to allow themselves to be injured or killed?
Maybe they learned a lesson?
I like the saying, "A republican is a liberal who got mugged."
Wholeheartedly agree with this.
She needs a good old-fashioned Recall... preferably with a trip into the dock of her own on Prosecutorial Misconduct charges.
An activist DA recalled in St. Louis? Not much chance of that.
PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 20:51
An activist DA recalled in St. Louis? Not much chance of that.
It would have to be another route without a doubt. Saint Louis is a hellhole bastion of liberalism.
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Diamondback
07-11-20, 21:02
Also, I took a second look and did a deeper dive into the McCloskey's political history...
Patricia McCloskey, SAINT LOUIS, MO 63108, emp. MCCLOSKEY PC
http://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=patricia+mccloskey&sort=D&type=donors
10-20-2016 $400.00 Trump, Donald (R)
10-13-2016 $400.00 Trump, Donald (R)
10-13-2016 $400.00 Trump, Donald (R) 2 donations same day
Mark McCloskey, SAINT LOUIS, MO 63108, emp. MCCLOSKEY, P.C.
http://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=asc&q=mark+mccloskey&sort=N&type=donors
10-23-2016 $400.00 Trump, Donald (R)
10-01-2016 $400.00 Trump, Donald (R)
07-31-2012 $1,000.00 Carnahan, Russ (D)
05-14-2012 $500.00 McCaskill, Claire (D)
08-20-2010 $500.00 Carnahan, Robin (D)
12-31-2009 $1,000.00 Carnahan, Russ (D)
09-30-2009 $2,400.00 Carnahan, Robin (D)
06-04-2004 $4,000.00 Democratic Party of Illinois (D)
12-30-2000 -$1,000.00 Bush, George W (R) returned donation?
11-01-2000 $2,000.00 Bush, George W (R)
06-30-2000 -$1,000.00 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) returned donation?
04-18-2000 $1,000.00 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R)
04-18-2000 $1,000.00 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) 2 donations same day
10-14-1996 $500.00 Phelps, Bill (R)
04-11-1996 $1,000.00 National Republican Congressional Cmte (R)
03-24-1992 $1,000.00 Bush, George (R)
Patricia has almost no history of her own, Mark reads more like an opportunist than an ideologue, wants to be on the good side of whoever's in power at the moment.
Belmont31R
07-11-20, 21:15
An activist DA recalled in St. Louis? Not much chance of that.
Soros, years ago, started concentrating on pumping money towards activist-extremist DA candidates for exactly this type of reason.
If you live somewhere where one of these people were elected then expect the rule of law to go away, and a far leftist activist version of the law to be applied.
Even if you have R control of state politics the big cities in red states still are run by democrats, and they like to ignore state laws because they know they won't face any personal consequences for doing so. Houston was ignoring state laws on carrying a firearm in your vehicles and charging people carrying in their vehicles. Numerous people charged and they didn't give a **** about the state laws.
Worst of all they know damn well even if people are eventually cleared and bogus charges are dropped you still get drug through the mud with legal costs, and your name forever being in the news & tied to accusations that sound like you're a criminal.
Where I stop personally giving a **** is when big city democrats and their financiers fall victim to their own malfeasance and stupidity. We'd all like to see our rights respected, and the normal rule of law to be foremost in government, but we should all also know that just doesn't happen in democrat controlled cities and states. I'm not going to go out of my to give a **** when the people supporting the usurping of the Constitution and our rights get caught up in the mess they helped perpetuate.
We’re now living in upside down world. Nobody wants to go on the offensive against a hate group and movement for fear of being called a racist, white supremacist, or whatever the alphabet retards keep coming up with but god dammit we’re going to cherry pick the low hanging fruit of regular folks and make an example out of them.
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This.
I love whole "But they're not on 'our side' so they don't deserve our support" asshattery abounding here.
This case is going to set precedent for the future; why the hell do you think they're pressing so hard on it?
Bluntly, this is why we keep getting rings run around us by the leftists; this is something I see constantly by "our side" when it comes to other 'issues' like the 1A and free speech. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say they're ok with literal communists marching in the streets and spewing vile shit online because they 'deserve an opinion', and then flip over and condone "hateful" people being de-platformed, and are terrified lest some of them show up at a "good guy" rally or some other event and "make them look bad". It's ridiculous.
Either all lawful citizens of the US have the same rights, in which case one group’s political/social beliefs about another do not matter as long as they support those same constitutional rights, OR we join the left in agreeing that some people shouldn’t have access to their constitutional rights based on political or religious belief, in which case, line up, you’re next…until we figure this out, random outliers from various outlier groups will continue to be used against us to restrict our rights.
Same with this, we've allowed this to devolve from a "national conversation" about the meaning of their actions, into "lol they're noobs" or "boo, they're not one of us".
Yeah, sure maybe they'll get a good dose of their own medicine and grow a brain cell. Maybe not. Who cares. That's the same sort of "ha, you're getting yours now aren't you" shit-tier thinking the left is pushing every day in their push to rule the world.
But these people are INJURY attorneys, not criminal defense attorneys. They take the BLM cases etc...for purely personal, political reasons.
Like the giant corporate law firms that have offices on 7 continents who produce little of real value but market chaos which they arbitrage. They have a "social justice" project that tries to get the most murderous scum in the world off Death Row so they have something to talk about at press releases and cocktail parties...
Yeah, maybe they're scum.
But right now, IT_DOESN'T_MATTER
They either have the same rights, or they don't. Pick one.
Diamondback
07-11-20, 22:28
This.
I love whole "But they're not on 'our side' so they don't deserve our support" asshattery abounding here.
This case is going to set precedent for the future; why the hell do you think they're pressing so hard on it?
Bluntly, this is why we keep getting rings run around us by the leftists; this is something I see constantly by "our side" when it comes to other 'issues' like the 1A and free speech. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say they're ok with literal communists marching in the streets and spewing vile shit online because they 'deserve an opinion', and then flip over and condone "hateful" people being de-platformed, and are terrified lest some of them show up at a "good guy" rally or some other event and "make them look bad". It's ridiculous.
Either all lawful citizens of the US have the same rights, in which case one group’s political/social beliefs about another do not matter as long as they support those same constitutional rights, OR we join the left in agreeing that some people shouldn’t have access to their constitutional rights based on political or religious belief, in which case, line up, you’re next…until we figure this out, random outliers from various outlier groups will continue to be used against us to restrict our rights.
[snip]
I actually wrote a piece about this two years ago... the Left likes to pick vile, odious individuals as Test Cases knowing that we'll either join the Angry Mob or at least step aside for it. Precisely as they did with the Unpersoning of Alex Jones...
https://www.redstate.com/diary/diamondback/2018/08/15/redstates-watercooler-815-open-thread-unpersoning-alex-jones/
PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 22:42
I think it’s time for 300 people to head to the prosecutors house alas NFAC style.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This.
I love whole "But they're not on 'our side' so they don't deserve our support" asshattery abounding here.
This case is going to set precedent for the future; why the hell do you think they're pressing so hard on it?
Bluntly, this is why we keep getting rings run around us by the leftists; this is something I see constantly by "our side" when it comes to other 'issues' like the 1A and free speech. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say they're ok with literal communists marching in the streets and spewing vile shit online because they 'deserve an opinion', and then flip over and condone "hateful" people being de-platformed, and are terrified lest some of them show up at a "good guy" rally or some other event and "make them look bad". It's ridiculous.
Either all lawful citizens of the US have the same rights, in which case one group’s political/social beliefs about another do not matter as long as they support those same constitutional rights, OR we join the left in agreeing that some people shouldn’t have access to their constitutional rights based on political or religious belief, in which case, line up, you’re next…until we figure this out, random outliers from various outlier groups will continue to be used against us to restrict our rights.
Same with this, we've allowed this to devolve from a "national conversation" about the meaning of their actions, into "lol they're noobs" or "boo, they're not one of us".
Yeah, sure maybe they'll get a good dose of their own medicine and grow a brain cell. Maybe not. Who cares. That's the same sort of "ha, you're getting yours now aren't you" shit-tier thinking the left is pushing every day in their push to rule the world.
Yeah, maybe they're scum.
But right now, IT_DOESN'T_MATTER
They either have the same rights, or they don't. Pick one.
I did not see one person in this thread say they don't have rights, or defending their property was wrong.
I am glad the DA picked a pair of wealthy lawyers to falsely prosecute. Why? Because they can afford to fight and to fight is to win. The DA is a fool and the charges are idiotic. St Louis will end up settling with them in the lawsuit that follows and that settlement will pay for both their legal fees and their inconvenience. There is no way a blue collar couple could hope for the same outcome.
Andy
I think it’s time for 300 people to head to the prosecutors house alas NFAC style.
Just show up? And then what?
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-12-20, 01:18
Just show up? And then what?
Tickle fight?
Sing the national anthem?
Selected readings from Ronald Reagan.
Chant MAGA.
Belmont31R
07-12-20, 02:40
This.
I love whole "But they're not on 'our side' so they don't deserve our support" asshattery abounding here.
This case is going to set precedent for the future; why the hell do you think they're pressing so hard on it?
Bluntly, this is why we keep getting rings run around us by the leftists; this is something I see constantly by "our side" when it comes to other 'issues' like the 1A and free speech. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say they're ok with literal communists marching in the streets and spewing vile shit online because they 'deserve an opinion', and then flip over and condone "hateful" people being de-platformed, and are terrified lest some of them show up at a "good guy" rally or some other event and "make them look bad". It's ridiculous.
Either all lawful citizens of the US have the same rights, in which case one group’s political/social beliefs about another do not matter as long as they support those same constitutional rights, OR we join the left in agreeing that some people shouldn’t have access to their constitutional rights based on political or religious belief, in which case, line up, you’re next…until we figure this out, random outliers from various outlier groups will continue to be used against us to restrict our rights.
Same with this, we've allowed this to devolve from a "national conversation" about the meaning of their actions, into "lol they're noobs" or "boo, they're not one of us".
Yeah, sure maybe they'll get a good dose of their own medicine and grow a brain cell. Maybe not. Who cares. That's the same sort of "ha, you're getting yours now aren't you" shit-tier thinking the left is pushing every day in their push to rule the world.
Yeah, maybe they're scum.
But right now, IT_DOESN'T_MATTER
They either have the same rights, or they don't. Pick one.
First off I have no beef with people protesting. Go do your thing whatever that is.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Bold is mine.
Key word here is PEACEABLY.
That does not include spray painting other's property, defacing public property, making physical threats, tearing down statues, and/or assaulting people.
Further, the country was setup around a Judeo-Christian people, for whom the founders recognized.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." ~ John Adams
So the whole idea of all kinds of 'others' running wild with our rights to subvert the system is not within the framework of our society. This is why most other countries operate on totalitarian systems.
As for 'sticking up for other people' I'd turn that around and ask them when they are going to stand up for our values. Let me know when 2A protests or Tea Party type protests get any outside support. **** sticking my neck out for people who want to see me imprisoned or charged with a crime myself. A lot of these big cities vote leftist at an 80% or greater rate. At a certain point you just have to shake your head and realize there's consequences to the big city life. These lawyer people made a **** ton of money in the big city, and now they get to the deal with the consequences of a big city Soros DA.
I've personally chosen to live where Sorus and big city money isn't a personal influence on my life but that also means lower economic opportunity and I don't see anyone giving a **** about suburban and rural issues. This all started where the radical left were in charge of the city and state. Their DA is a dude who posted a picture of himself with an Antifa handbook.
'Not sticking up for rights of others' as a path to the left winning is pure lunacy when the radical left identified our openness and rights as a soft spot to exploit and use against us 8 decades ago. Go look up Gramsci's writings and Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals'. Going out of your way to support people who ultimately want to see you jailed or killed isn't something I'm going to do, and when they get rolled up the system they supported WTF do you expect?
Communism should be illegal under Sedition and Treason laws. Communism, like radical Islamic beliefs, require the subversion and other throw of the current system of government. Despite the nature of founding, being revolutionary itself, there still has to be some legal protections in place to protect this government while we still have voting and the system works as the law states the system should. These people are international with the influence coming in from outside actors. If we had Nazi groups in 1941 attacking Federal buildings and doing what the US Antifa is doing right now they'd be hunted down in the streets and shot or captured and hung. People financially supporting DSA, CPUSA, WWP, Soros, et al should be facing Federal charges. 1A does not cover what's going on right now.
True. I think some folks are conflating people and cases that attorneys are involved with and the personal life of attorneys.
I don't know these Trump and RNC supporters in St Louis... they may be horrible people, maybe not. That said, according the FEC they gave more money to Trump than I did in 2016, and they successfully defended their lives and property against an angry mob of hundreds which is one more angry mob than I have had to defend against. Beyond that, I'll defer to others who personally known them, and those experienced with singlehandedly fending off storming angry mobs. Anyone?
You didn't go back very far in their FEC history. For many, many years they wrote sizeable checks to the Carnahans. Does that name ring any bells? It should becaise they vetoed Missouri CHLs twice.
Their anti gun record was so scorched earth there was a book written about it--Show down in the Show me State. Ever read Unintended Consequences? The antagonist is a very thinly veiled Governor Carnahan.
So, what changed? The balance of political power. Missouri became a Republican state, so, time to buy some influence with the new game in town.....they are the very worst type of amoral scum.
This.
I love whole "But they're not on 'our side' so they don't deserve our support" asshattery abounding here.
This case is going to set precedent for the future; why the hell do you think they're pressing so hard on it?
Bluntly, this is why we keep getting rings run around us by the leftists; this is something I see constantly by "our side" when it comes to other 'issues' like the 1A and free speech. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say they're ok with literal communists marching in the streets and spewing vile shit online because they 'deserve an opinion', and then flip over and condone "hateful" people being de-platformed, and are terrified lest some of them show up at a "good guy" rally or some other event and "make them look bad". It's ridiculous.
Either all lawful citizens of the US have the same rights, in which case one groupÂ’s political/social beliefs about another do not matter as long as they support those same constitutional rights, OR we join the left in agreeing that some people shouldnÂ’t have access to their constitutional rights based on political or religious belief, in which case, line up, youÂ’re nextÂ…until we figure this out, random outliers from various outlier groups will continue to be used against us to restrict our rights.
Same with this, we've allowed this to devolve from a "national conversation" about the meaning of their actions, into "lol they're noobs" or "boo, they're not one of us".
Yeah, sure maybe they'll get a good dose of their own medicine and grow a brain cell. Maybe not. Who cares. That's the same sort of "ha, you're getting yours now aren't you" shit-tier thinking the left is pushing every day in their push to rule the world.
Yeah, maybe they're scum.
But right now, IT_DOESN'T_MATTER
They either have the same rights, or they don't. Pick one.
To me, they are nothing more than a tool to further our agenda . Ive said as much.
But i dont agree with the "We're all equal" crap line of thinking. You dont get to spend your whole life supporting people who diminish the rights of others and then talk about "My rights, My rights." You get the same rights you are willing to accord others, no more, no less.
For those of you who cant get past the "Everyone has the same rights" let me explain how these folks can best support the Second Amendment.
Two, clear images--pictures worth thousand words blah, blah.
First, them defending their property with an evil black rifle and 100 round clipazine. They are unharmed. Second, disarmed by Liberal politicians....and raped to death by a mob they helped create on the lawn of their burning mansion with 100 million Whirlastar views.
Justice served and clear lesson imparted to the feeble minded.
That is how they can best serve our rights. Swear to God some of you would have cried at Trotskys funeral....
Averageman
07-12-20, 08:17
I wish the President would show up that DA's door step and hustle her off to a meeting where he arrests the DA and pardons these two dummies.
Then does a MAGA back flip and drops in to some splits ala James Brown and starts singing "It's a Mans World."
ChattanoogaPhil
07-12-20, 08:34
I love whole "But they're not on 'our side' so they don't deserve our support" asshattery abounding here.
This case is going to set precedent for the future; why the hell do you think they're pressing so hard on it?
Bluntly, this is why we keep getting rings run around us by the leftists; this is something I see constantly by "our side" when it comes to other 'issues' like the 1A and free speech. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say they're ok with literal communists marching in the streets and spewing vile shit online because they 'deserve an opinion', and then flip over and condone "hateful" people being de-platformed, and are terrified lest some of them show up at a "good guy" rally or some other event and "make them look bad". It's ridiculous.
Much truth there. Too many standing on a puritanical litmus soapbox, and that goes all across the GOP spectrum from God to guns. Graham had to tell his flock to wise up, that focusing on Trump's history of womanizing is missing the issue at hand. Import that general message here.
Much truth there. Too many standing on a puritanical litmus soapbox, and that goes all across the GOP spectrum from God to guns. Graham had to his flock to wise up, that focusing on Trump's history of womanizing is missing the issue at hand. Import that general message here.
So you support the AK wielding Marshal of CHOP? Because he has a gun too!!! That obviously makes him "one of us" and all about supporting our Second Amendment rights!!!
I did not see one person in this thread say they don't have rights, or defending their property was wrong.
I am glad the DA picked a pair of wealthy lawyers to falsely prosecute. Why? Because they can afford to fight and to fight is to win. The DA is a fool and the charges are idiotic. St Louis will end up settling with them in the lawsuit that follows and that settlement will pay for both their legal fees and their inconvenience. There is no way a blue collar couple could hope for the same outcome.
Andy
Considering how sue happy those two appear to be, along with the factors you mentioned, I'd say the DA is gonna be in for a fight they will lose. I don't see those two backing down at all and enjoying the additional attention they will get.
Considering how sue happy those two appear to be, along with the factors you mentioned, I'd say the DA is gonna be in for a fight they will lose. I don't see those two backing down at all and enjoying the additional attention they will get.
You describe my position exactly.
Andy
Communism should be illegal under Sedition and Treason laws. Communism, like radical Islamic beliefs, require the subversion and other throw of the current system of government. Despite the nature of founding, being revolutionary itself, there still has to be some legal protections in place to protect this government while we still have voting and the system works as the law states the system should. These people are international with the influence coming in from outside actors. If we had Nazi groups in 1941 attacking Federal buildings and doing what the US Antifa is doing right now they'd be hunted down in the streets and shot or captured and hung. People financially supporting DSA, CPUSA, WWP, Soros, et al should be facing Federal charges. 1A does not cover what's going on right now.
Amen.
Considering how sue happy those two appear to be, along with the factors you mentioned, I'd say the DA is gonna be in for a fight they will lose. I don't see those two backing down at all and enjoying the additional attention they will get.
Agreed. On a personal level they are hyper litigious turds, however what they did and why they did it are one of several reasons why the 2a was included in the constitution. They are the perfect couple for this fight, precisely because they are hyper litigious.
ChattanoogaPhil
07-12-20, 09:45
So you support the AK wielding Marshal of CHOP? Because he has a gun too!!! That obviously makes him "one of us" and all about supporting our Second Amendment rights!!!
Of course not. He wasn't defending his property from angry mob aggressors as is the case in St Louis. He was part of the angry mob aggressors in Seattle. This fundamental distinction goes to the core of the discussion. It's separates the law-abiding from lawbreakers, self-defense from aggression.
Chicago gangbangers don't have a right to do drive-by shootings, but that St Louis couple does have the right to defend life and property. And that, sir, makes them "one of us" in the context of exercising their 2A rights in that scenario as far as I'm concerned. Hope that helps.
Of course not. He wasn't defending his property from angry mob aggressors as is the case in St Louis. He was part of the angry mob aggressors in Seattle. This fundamental distinction goes to the core of the discussion. It's separates the law-abiding from lawbreakers, self-defense from aggression.
Chicago gangbangers don't have a right to do drive-by shootings, but that St Louis couple does have the right to defend life and property. And that, sir, makes them "one of us" in the context of exercising their 2A rights in that scenario as far as I'm concerned. Hope that helps.
Oh no, he was the duly "elected" Marshal of Chop charged by its residents with keeping the peace! Again, the best service they can provide the cause is to now die a heinous and well recorded-and deserved, death. I won't send flowers to Trotskys funeral, sorry.
When I see them making sizeable contributions to GOA/NRA etc...testifying in favor of expanding firearms rights...Then, they are "one of us".....Rules of fairness etc...are for MY PEOPLE, I'm a tribal guy...I read Alinskys Rules For Radicals...those people deserve NOTHING but a shallow grave, I will support them in NOTHING.
PracticalRifleman
07-12-20, 10:24
Just show up? And then what?
And peacefully protest
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And peacefully protest
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First there would be a leftist freak out because the "alt-right militia" is threatening and intimidating the DA, then Soros would dispatch his get-out-of-jail-free SJW Rainbow Brigade to start trouble and film it. Conservatives will be jailed if the lift a finger to defend themselves.
F'it - I can wear a mask and gloves, good luck doxing me, sign me up.
...I am glad the DA picked a pair of wealthy lawyers to falsely prosecute. Why? Because they can afford to fight and to fight is to win. The DA is a fool and the charges are idiotic. St Louis will end up settling with them in the lawsuit that follows and that settlement will pay for both their legal fees and their inconvenience. There is no way a blue collar couple could hope for the same outcome.
Andy
And on that we totally agree.
To me, they are nothing more than a tool to further our agenda . Ive said as much.
And on that, we also totally agree; if you go back and read my first post on this topic, this is propaganda gold for us. I'm not saying we need to throw them a rubber chicken fundraiser hosted by the NRA and just love them to death and promote them as paragons of the 2A, merely piggyback onto the whole unfolding situation.
My gripe is with the subset of people who can't seem to make hay when the field is cut for them, instead they want to endlessly moan about what height the field was cut at.
And yet, we want to fight... :rolleyes:
But i dont agree with the "We're all equal" crap line of thinking. You dont get to spend your whole life supporting people who diminish the rights of others and then talk about "My rights, My rights." You get the same rights you are willing to accord others, no more, no less.
A lifelong Communist Party/Black Power/Huey Newton/BLM/Antifa person gets attacked by violent white hooligans while walking to the local 7/11 and shoots a couple of them.
A lifelong NS/White Power/KKK/Skinhead/Neo-nazi person gets attacked by violent black hooligans while walking to the local 7/11 and shoots a couple of them.
Which of those two people will have spent little enough of their lives "supporting people who diminish the rights of others" for you to support their right to self-defense?
If you understand how each of those situations would be played out in the current year, you understand my point about equal rights.
Or as Andy just made the point for me;
First there would be a leftist freak out because the "alt-right militia" is threatening and intimidating the DA, then Soros would dispatch his get-out-of-jail-free SJW Rainbow Brigade to start trouble and film it. Conservatives will be jailed if the lift a finger to defend themselves.
F'it - I can wear a mask and gloves, good luck doxing me, sign me up.
The left sure isn't playing the 'get the same rights you accord to others' game, so do you have a right to protest or not?
Goes back to my comment on the 1A; if we're going to play the same "for we but not for thee" game, then we're essentially admitting their actions/beliefs are right and acceptable.
Overton Window stuff...
For those of you who cant get past the "Everyone has the same rights" let me explain how these folks can best support the Second Amendment.
Two, clear images--pictures worth thousand words blah, blah.
First, them defending their property with an evil black rifle and 100 round clipazine. They are unharmed. Second, disarmed by Liberal politicians....and raped to death by a mob they helped create on the lawn of their burning mansion with 100 million Whirlastar views.
Justice served and clear lesson imparted to the feeble minded...
I suspect we might be a bit more on the same page than it seems, however;
If they got a life-ending dose of their own medicine, I agree it would certainly drive the point home, and I would be making my same point about the value of such propaganda and gleefully doing my part to spread it about, because just like "Warlord Raz" giving out rifles from the trunk of his car, it's useful to slap people in the face with.
If, however, we got the other outcome and they decided "not today" and went cyclic on the mob, you bet your ass we'd still have people on our own 'side' whinging about "bUt WhY DiD ThEy HaVe To ShoOt So MaNy PeOplE? / CoUlDN't ThEy HaVe PiCkEd TheIr TaRgEts BeTtEr? / YoU Can ClEArLy SeE In ThIS ViDeo CliP ThAt SomE Of ThE PrOtEstErs WeRe UnArmed/ etc. etc, ad naseum. Hell, some of those "common sense" types would probably even be trotted out onto the talk-news circuit come trial time to bow and grovel.
I dare you to tell me I'm wrong about that.
And yet, I will bet some of the same people who would be complaining in such a hypothetical situation, already have plans for what they'd do if getting mobbed in their home or vehicle, and would expect to be fully justified and supported in their actions because they're a 'good guy' and 'one of us'.
The hypocrisy of getting self-righteously picky here, while people on "our side" expect to be justified in taking the exact same actions, is why I'm fed up with these ridiculous discussions.
Yes, you do indeed get the same rights you accord to others...
Today they're "getting what they deserve" in your opinion. If they lose, tomorrow you're "getting what you deserve" in the mob's opinion. The only reason their crappy political choices matter at all, is specifically to slap this fact in the face of those who might not 'get it' yet, along with how it has not helped their treatment post-event so far.
But, that's just my opinion...
ChattanoogaPhil
07-12-20, 16:36
You didn't go back very far in their FEC history. For many, many years they wrote sizeable checks to the Carnahans. Does that name ring any bells? It should becaise they vetoed Missouri CHLs twice.
Their anti gun record was so scorched earth there was a book written about it--Show down in the Show me State. Ever read Unintended Consequences? The antagonist is a very thinly veiled Governor Carnahan.
So, what changed? The balance of political power. Missouri became a Republican state, so, time to buy some influence with the new game in town.....they are the very worst type of amoral scum.
I understand. Politics and influence is what it is. As a private citizen, Trump gave money to some of the worst anti-gun politicians, including Chuck Schumer, Andrew Cuomo and Hillary Clinton. I make no apologies for supporting Trump's campaign in 2016 or 2020, nor should 2A advocates be apologizing for voicing support for the self-defense actions of the couple in St Louis.
https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_Donald_Trump%27s_political_donations
They claim they support Black Lives Matter, and instead blamed the actions of a few agitators for their fear. "The Black Lives Matters movement is here to stay, its the right message, and it is about time," Albert Watkins, their attorney, said in a statement.
"The McCloskeys want to make sure no one thinks less of BLM, its message and the means it is employing to get its message out because of the actions of a few white individuals who tarnished a peaceful protest."
Full article here-https://www.yahoo.com/news/st-louis-couple-threatened-black-171108171.html
You support that trash- you are NEVER "one of us". Period. End of story.
As far as the rest of it---There are NO RULES at this point. NONE. Not in dealing with people on the other side. It's "weapons free" in terms of morality and nearly so in terms of actual conduct!!! I WILL NOT play Marquis D' Queensbury and get my head knocked in. There is only ONE RULE that matters now- WIN! It's literally about survival.
BoringGuy45
07-13-20, 09:31
These people are pieces of dog shit; my apologies to dog shit. They sued and conned their way to owning everything they have. That being said, I don’t think anyone thinks they’re heroes now that we know who/what they are. In our society, it’s considered unjust if even a career criminal goes to jail for a crime he didn’t commit. Likewise, these assholes have 2A rights even if they are assholes. That is the ONLY reason they are getting any sympathy.
They claim they support Black Lives Matter, and instead blamed the actions of a few agitators for their fear. "The Black Lives Matters movement is here to stay, its the right message, and it is about time," Albert Watkins, their attorney, said in a statement.
"The McCloskeys want to make sure no one thinks less of BLM, its message and the means it is employing to get its message out because of the actions of a few white individuals who tarnished a peaceful protest."
Full article here-https://www.yahoo.com/news/st-louis-couple-threatened-black-171108171.html
You support that trash- you are NEVER "one of us". Period. End of story. As far as the rest of it---There are NO RULES at this point. NONE. Not in dealing with people on the other side. It's "weapons free" in terms of morality and nearly so in terms of actual conduct!!! I WILL NOT play Marquis D' Queensbury and get my head knocked in. There is only ONE RULE that matters now- WIN! It's literally about survival.
Some don't seem to understand that we can support their 2A Rights - which no one has denied them in this thread - and view them as bottom feeding hypocritical D bag attorneys that support BLM ,etc. . The two are not mutually exclusive.
Everything I see and read about them to date leads me to reject them as being on our side in any real way and a classic example of the ilk.
I do think they may be the perfect couple that ultimately supports our POV by the DA going after rich, white, woke folks who no doubt though they were above all that.
But heroes of the 2A they are not.
And we agree on that, and no place did I say they didn't have their 2A Rights. They are however classic hypocrites and should not be held up as 2A gun totin' heroes. They're not on "our" side per se. However, after this experience I suspect they and others probably will be!
I think this event works well for our side, but needs to be viewed and positioned appropriately per other comments in this thread.
2A gun totin' heroes they aint.
I didn't intend to imply, if I did, that they be held as heroes. In fact, I said that I don't really like anything about them. I simply addressed their rights, and the need to support people who, in fear of their lives, tried, to the best of their limited ability, protect themselves, their family, and their property.
To me, the brandishing laws are against the 2nd, and ridiculous. If you feel in fear of death or great bodily harm brandishing is a far safer means of asserting your right to self-defense than pulling out a concealed firearm and shooting someone. Or waiting to be attacked or waiting until they come in your home and shoot them.
The right to self defense is under attack. BTW the DA there is supported by Soros.
I have fought these type of scum for my rights my entire life. Im not feeling very magnanimous. The rule as far as im concerned is, you get the same rights you support others having, no more, no less. Choices have consequences.
Their only value to me is to enflame my side and any who might be on the fence who can be reached. Otherwise, i hope the howling mob they fostered tears them limb from limb.
The howling mob will get to them either way, they are done. Even if they are not convicted. The individuals don't matter, but standing up for the principles of our Constitution does, and it out weighs any political consideration. Charging and convicting this couple weakens all our rights. Who cares if they are libtards.
Oh, I think we all understand "the process" quite well. Thats not the issue here.
The issue is that this is clearly a political message being sent- "Let the Goblins, loot, rape, beat and murder.The police, will do NOTHING to protect you. Your job is to die quietly. If you resist in any way, you WILL be punished".
If people can't see this for what it is, they are F'ing morons.
I completely agree with you. The worst part is that even when the arrest the Goblins for rioting, they are let go. Some of them were arrested for destruction of property, arson, assault and other "peaceful protester" acts.
But both what he's saying and what you're saying can be accurate and are not mutually exclusive to each other. There's no doubt this is about sending a message that's more politically motivated than legally. That they happen to be attorneys, white woke and wealthy, will play in our favor if "we" are smart about it.
That even the white woke and wealthy can get charged over that is gonna freak out a lot of white woke and wealthy types too who probably thought they were immune to such legal entanglements.
Honestly, from out POV, charging them may be a win as even the most white woke and wealthy will like "WTF?"
No, it demoralizes our side and emboldens the nuts. There may be some small secondary learning for the Lefty Rich, but they are still in support of the nuts, because, you know, Orange Man and Police bad, white guilt, white supremacy, and historically BAD America. And of course no one wants to be caught supporting Law and Order, or going against "the narrative" on social media.
Here's my take on this. Ok, they're Leftists, but they seem to understand the Capitalist system and how to make money - lots of it. They're also gun owners who understand the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for personal defense, and they weren't afraid to arm themselves. This gives us some commonality with these people. I'd like to actually sit down with them and compare notes on politics and the direction of America. It is not uncommon for people to be left leaning and experience a life changing event which pushes them further Right. I wouldn't write them off yet.
If they could experience credible, Right members of society, they could see a definite distinction between responsible, patriotic Americans and that rabble running wild in their area.
Wow, you are offering facts, reason, free speech, and the possibility of finding a common ground. Bravo! But don't try that with the Leftist Mob, you will be beat to death.
But that's what lawyers do - they defend criminals and scum. It's an integral part of the job. What I have detected in many posts all over the internet is more of a class envy situation - nothing worse than Limousine Liberals. If these folks were in a trailer park defending their run down single-wide, they wouldn't catch as much grief even if they were left leaning.
Yup, people forget about principles if they detect political or class differences that they don't like. Its really a symptom of a sick society to throw away principles because of class envy or political differences. We act like the other side when we do this. Especially, when a win (not being convicted) for this couple, is a win for the 2nd and for us, no matter how much we find them to be horrible people
It doesn't make logical sense to hope they are charged and convicted, its an emotional response.
FEC website. https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=mark+mccloskey&contributor_city=st+louis
These are the St Louis "Leftists".
Contributor name Recipient State Employer Receipt date Amount
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 02/06/2017 -$500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 11/03/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 11/03/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/27/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 -$400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/23/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK TRUMP MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $500.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/13/2016 $100.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC. MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/01/2016 $400.00 Toggle details
MCCLOSKEY, MARK REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MO MCCLOSKEY PC 10/01/2016 $100.00
Oh, it looks like some will have to eat crow here....
Some don't seem to understand that we can support their 2A Rights - which no one has denied them in this thread - and view them as bottom feeding hypocritical D bag attorneys that support BLM ,etc. . The two are not mutually exclusive.
Everything I see and read about them to date leads me to reject them as being on our side in any real way and a classic example of the ilk.
I do think they may be the perfect couple that ultimately supports our POV by the DA going after rich, white, woke folks who no doubt though they were above all that.
But heroes of the 2A they are not.
Weren't you just agreeing, a few posts back (#127), with the guy who said he hoped something bad happens to them, just because they are liberals?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224141-Couple-in-MO-being-held-as-2A-heroes&p=2861912#post2861912
Can't you just leave the politics and judgements about their work out of it and realize that a win for them is a win for us?
Life's a Hillary
07-13-20, 16:38
Was the gate seized as evidence?
------
The pair called the St. Louis Police Department shortly before 7:30 p.m. Sunday. They told arriving officers that they had heard a "commotion" and, upon investigating further, “observed a large group of subjects forcefully break an iron gate marked with ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Private Street' signs,” according to an incident summary provided to Fox News by the department.
https://i.imgur.com/5AWGpyi.jpg
Was this gate on their actual property or the gate to the neighborhood? I haven’t followed this situation that closely so pardon my ignorance but I was under the impression they broke into a gated neighborhood to go protest at the Mayor’s house. Did they walk into the McCloskey’s property?
Not that it excuses the group that broke into the neighborhood but do you have the right to point a gun at someone on your street if they are not even on your property? That’s the only potential issue I can see popping up from this, would have helped if the wife had a little better muzzle and trigger control.
Weren't you just agreeing, a few posts back (#127), with the guy who said he hoped something bad happens to them, just because they are liberals?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?224141-Couple-in-MO-being-held-as-2A-heroes&p=2861912#post2861912
Can't you just leave the politics and judgements about their work out of it and realize that a win for them is a win for us?
Like being charged by some politically motivated A hole of DA which will at the very least cost them a lot of $ and make their lives hard? As I said many times here, I think they're situation could be a win for us, but they're not examples of gun totin' 2A supporting heroes to be viewed as being on our side.
Was this gate on their actual property or the gate to the neighborhood? I haven’t followed this situation that closely so pardon my ignorance but I was under the impression they broke into a gated neighborhood to go protest at the Mayor’s house. Did they walk into the McCloskey’s property?
Not that it excuses the group that broke into the neighborhood but do you have the right to point a gun at someone on your street if they are not even on your property? That’s the only potential issue I can see popping up from this, would have helped if the wife had a little better muzzle and trigger control.
I think the path the protestors were on was adjacent to their property and was an access point to the gated community vs directly onto their property. That's my current understanding of it. I don't know how that jibes with MO law and how they responded to the mob entering the community, which is private property.
PracticalRifleman
07-13-20, 17:44
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200713/ab0269649dd0189ea5f553c57aa7da79.jpg
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ColtSeavers
07-13-20, 18:08
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200713/ab0269649dd0189ea5f553c57aa7da79.jpg
https://media.tenor.com/images/6896518ea99b74da3d79c7f281c2c844/tenor.gif
Life's a Hillary
07-13-20, 18:25
I think the path the protestors were on was adjacent to their property and was an access point to the gated community vs directly onto their property. That's my current understanding of it. I don't know how that jibes with MO law and how they responded to the mob entering the community, which is private property.
This was my understanding and I think is likely a critical aspect of any charges sticking but I don’t know anything about MO law so I won’t pretend to. Would love a SMEs input it available.
Oh, it looks like some will have to eat crow here....
No, thats a recent snapshot. Their donation history goes back to the 90s and they supported some of the very worst anti gun politicians in the nation.
Yup, people forget about principles if they detect political or class differences that they don't like. Its really a symptom of a sick society to throw away principles because of class envy or political differences. We act like the other side when we do this. Especially, when a win (not being convicted) for this couple, is a win for the 2nd and for us, no matter how much we find them to be horrible people
It doesn't make logical sense to hope they are charged and convicted, its an emotional response.
I hope your principles keep you warm in the Gulag.
How many times have we "won" only to get NOTHING for our efforts? Why is that? Why do we find ourselves in the position we are in? Why do we always get Roberts, Souter, Brennan? Why?
Because the Left understands that only WINNING mattters. Winners have the luxury of principles, losers get a shallow grave. That's how this works, those are the rules whether you acknowledge them or not.
Was this gate on their actual property or the gate to the neighborhood? I haven’t followed this situation that closely so pardon my ignorance but I was under the impression they broke into a gated neighborhood to go protest at the Mayor’s house. Did they walk into the McCloskey’s property?
Not that it excuses the group that broke into the neighborhood but do you have the right to point a gun at someone on your street if they are not even on your property? That’s the only potential issue I can see popping up from this, would have helped if the wife had a little better muzzle and trigger control.
For my MBA, I studied a little of contract law in real estate. In a gated community, anything outside of the individual home lots are common areas owned by all of the residents. The wall, the gate, the sidewalks, the streets are property owned jointly by the landowners. These specifications are included in what are known as protective covenants. These covenants can specify what kind of a house you can build, things you can do with your house and lot, but also the commonly owned property. It's kind of a high end HOA contract.
The gate that was destroyed was owned by McCloskey and the other owners. The street and sidewalk the protesters were marching down is commonly owned property that includes the McCloskeys. Call it a private compound if you will, but the protesters were trespassing and destroyed property to gain entrance to private property.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200713/ab0269649dd0189ea5f553c57aa7da79.jpg
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F************ck yes.
Diamondback
07-13-20, 19:55
F************ck yes.
Tough talk from Baker, but you know she's gonna fight tooth and nail to the bitter end. He needs to put a bug in someone's ear who actually CAN initiate an Involuntary Removal process... I doubt the voters would Recall so that means finding a crime and charging her.
john armond
07-13-20, 20:18
Tough talk from Baker, but you know she's gonna fight tooth and nail to the bitter end. He needs to put a bug in someone's ear who actually CAN initiate an Involuntary Removal process... I doubt the voters would Recall so that means finding a crime and charging her.
Paging Duke Lacross
Diamondback
07-13-20, 20:35
Paging Duke Lacross
Excellent point. Nifong her ass!
MountainRaven
07-13-20, 21:05
No, thats a recent snapshot. Their donation history goes back to the 90s and they supported some of the very worst anti gun politicians in the nation.
So did Trump. I bet you're going to vote for him, anyway.
So did Trump. I bet you're going to vote for him, anyway.
Given the alternative, yes. And just so we are clear, if the choice was the MO couple or Biden, I'd vote for the MO couple.
Trump is hardly the ideal candidate. He's a born again Republican who is conservative by NY standards. He leaves a LOT to be desired and his track record is iffy at best so far but I'm still confident that Trump on his worst day is better than Hillary on her best day.
If the Dems ran a moderate who wasn't actually a socialist and rabid anti gunner or otherwise not a freaking loon, I'd vote Democrat.
In 2008 there was barely a difference because McCain was the worst GOP candidate I can remember and only things like the Bill Ayers connection and strong ties with Islam prevented me from voting for Obama. And honestly, besides some attempts at gun bans and of course mandatory Obamacare, I was ok with some of his policies and he might have done less damage than McCain.
LMT Shooter
07-14-20, 00:28
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200713/ab0269649dd0189ea5f553c57aa7da79.jpg
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Wow, just..... wow....
If even 25% of people elected to office, at every level of government- city, county, state, & federal- had this sentiment & the grit to follow through in their actions, we would never have gotten to this point.
Life's a Hillary
07-14-20, 08:32
For my MBA, I studied a little of contract law in real estate. In a gated community, anything outside of the individual home lots are common areas owned by all of the residents. The wall, the gate, the sidewalks, the streets are property owned jointly by the landowners. These specifications are included in what are known as protective covenants. These covenants can specify what kind of a house you can build, things you can do with your house and lot, but also the commonly owned property. It's kind of a high end HOA contract.
The gate that was destroyed was owned by McCloskey and the other owners. The street and sidewalk the protesters were marching down is commonly owned property that includes the McCloskeys. Call it a private compound if you will, but the protesters were trespassing and destroyed property to gain entrance to private property.
That’s pretty interesting, thanks for the insight. Will be interesting to see how that impacts using self defense/castle doctrine as a defense.
PracticalRifleman
07-14-20, 08:52
St. Louis attorney who defended property from encroaching mob says he will be 'indicted shortly' @ https://www.theblaze.com/news/st-louis-attorney-who-defended-property-from-encroaching-mob-says-he-will-be-indicted-shortly
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So did Trump. I bet you're going to vote for him, anyway.
Are these folks running against Biden? No? Then I don't care.
ETA: I will say this- I DID NOT vote for Trump in 2016. He carried Texas by over 700,000 votes. Principles are for WINNERS! --- I knew my vote wouldn't matter, I didn't vote for him- for precisely the reasons many have stated so I could afford to indulge my principles. He was a "New York" Republican and not a conservative, his loathsome reputation as a womanizer, his record of statements on gun control ..etc, turned me off...He has generally attempted to govern more conservatively than expected but it's been a dumpster fire from the get go. Likely I will vote for him this time around as I expect the margin to be tighter......Again, Principles- are for Winners!
St. Louis attorney who defended property from encroaching mob says he will be 'indicted shortly' @ https://www.theblaze.com/news/st-louis-attorney-who-defended-property-from-encroaching-mob-says-he-will-be-indicted-shortly
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Why do I get the distinct feeling that DA didn't graduate top of her class in law school? I think she's gonna get eaten alive.
Are these folks running against Biden? No? Then I don't care.
ETA: I will say this- I DID NOT vote for Trump in 2016. He carried Texas by over 700,000 votes. Principles are for WINNERS! --- I knew my vote wouldn't matter, I didn't vote for him- for precisely the reasons many have stated so I could afford to indulge my principles. He was a "New York" Republican and not a conservative, his loathsome reputation as a womanizer, his record of statements on gun control ..etc, turned me off...He has generally attempted to govern more conservatively than expected but it's been a dumpster fire from the get go. Likely I will vote for him this time around as I expect the margin to be tighter......Again, Principles- are for Winners!
And before that a Dem, then a Republican then Dem, then...
I didn't vote for him either as I too was in a state my vote had no impact as it was all blue. As I'm in a state my vote does matter, I think he's actually done a better job than I'd expected considering the BS, and Biden and the other loons taking the WH, means I will vote Trump this time around.
All of which has not a dang thing to do with that couple. :cool:
Why do I get the distinct feeling that DA didn't graduate top of her class in law school? I think she's gonna get eaten alive.
DA's are elected. As such they reflect the values and priorities of their fellow citizens. She's a politically motivated POS and borderline incompetent- but that's what her "peers" want in St. Louis- so that's what they get. She will face little to no backlash having "stood up to da man". My best guess based on previous examples of DA's just like her- ie Chicago and Smollett, Philly and the Freddie Gray case etc....
Diamondback
07-14-20, 14:27
Why do I get the distinct feeling that DA didn't graduate top of her class in law school? I think she's gonna get eaten alive.
Here's hoping she gets bent over and litigiously Prison Bitched in the civil suit to follow... both her and thee city that elected her.
Why do I get the distinct feeling that DA didn't graduate top of her class in law school? I think she's gonna get eaten alive.
Diversity hires/selections/appointments are thing and short of massive incompetence they’re untouchable
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St. Louis attorney who defended property from encroaching mob says he will be 'indicted shortly' @ https://www.theblaze.com/news/st-louis-attorney-who-defended-property-from-encroaching-mob-says-he-will-be-indicted-shortly
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I actually liked Tim's view on this report;
https://www.bitchute.com/video/tydzIppAuKQ/
How much truth to this there is I'm not sure, but I don't see it as something he should get himself associated personally. Of course having the AG "take a look" is not intervening:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-intervening-case-missouri-mansion-couple-pointed-guns-governor-2020-7
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-16-20, 12:15
There is no way to screw these people over more than to have Trump weigh in on their side. You are definitely getting charged then. Having the civil rights division look into it would be more useful. Start finding out who the DA has been talking to.
Diversity hires/selections/appointments are thing and short of massive incompetence they’re untouchable
In fact, that should be a hashtag. #DiversityPrivilege.
All this talk about white privilege . . .
Ok, well I can’t get pushed to the top of an HR recruitment line because of MY ethnicity, and then stick around Loooong after it’s clear I’m a worthless colleague.
PracticalRifleman
07-19-20, 12:16
Missouri governor says pardon likely if St. Louis homeowners charged
https://www.foxnews.com/us/missouri-governor-pardon-mccloskey-couple
Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.
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Grand58742
07-20-20, 16:38
Missouri governor says pardon likely if St. Louis homeowners charged
https://www.foxnews.com/us/missouri-governor-pardon-mccloskey-couple
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Looks like he better get the pardon paperwork ready.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/st-louis-mccloskey-charged-prosecutor-gardner-guns
St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner said Monday she's charging the couple who flashed guns at a crowd marching to the mayor's office last month with felony unlawful use of a weapon.
Gardner, the city's top prosecutor, told The Associated Press that Mark and Patricia McCloskey also faced a misdemeanor charge of fourth-degree assault over the June 28 incident. "It is illegal to wave weapons in a threatening manner -- that is unlawful in the city of St. Louis," Gardner said.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-20-20, 16:48
Looks like he better get the pardon paperwork ready.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/st-louis-mccloskey-charged-prosecutor-gardner-guns
The way that the woman was muzzle sweeping the whole city, I thought that might come back to bite them. Of course, if they had kept the guns at a low ready, the DA would have used another rationale to charge them. I still think that legally they should be fine, the mob was threatening them and on private property. But have fun fighting that since you'll lose your first jury trial, unless you can get some South COunty Hoosiers on your jury.
PracticalRifleman
07-20-20, 18:47
Missouri AG moves to dismiss charges against couple who pointed guns at crowd
https://www.foxnews.com/us/missouri-ag-moves-to-dismiss-charges-against-couple-who-pointed-guns-at-crowd
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Wow, they will stop at nothing.. The handgun was used as a prop in court while suing a gun manufacturer. Regardless, tampering with evidence?
Patricia McCloskey’s gun didn’t work, so the corrupt prosecutor had it fixed so she could charge McCloskey…
https://therightscoop.com/patricia-mccloskeys-gun-didnt-work-so-the-corrupt-prosecutor-had-it-fixed-so-she-could-charge-mccloskey/
Wow, they will stop at nothing.. The handgun was used as a prop in court while suing a gun manufacturer. Regardless, tampering with evidence?
Patricia McCloskey’s gun didn’t work, so the corrupt prosecutor had it fixed so she could charge McCloskey…
https://therightscoop.com/patricia-mccloskeys-gun-didnt-work-so-the-corrupt-prosecutor-had-it-fixed-so-she-could-charge-mccloskey/
The state AG needs to charge that rogue prosecutor with tampering with evidence and have her disbarred.
The state AG needs to charge that rogue prosecutor with tampering with evidence and have her disbarred.
That would be a good start but not holding my breath.
PracticalRifleman
07-22-20, 16:04
The state AG needs to charge that rogue prosecutor with tampering with evidence and have her disbarred.
Tarred and feathered.
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The state AG needs to charge that rogue prosecutor with tampering with evidence and have her disbarred.
I agree with that, but those two are true bottom feeding attorneys who appear to be always looking for a pay out or what ever:
"Patricia McCloskey and her husband, Mark McCloskey, have said the handgun Patricia McCloskey waved at protesters was inoperable because they had used it as a prop during a lawsuit they once filed against a gun manufacturer. In order to bring it into a courtroom, they made it inoperable."
Everything I read about them so far makes me like them less and less. I support their 2A Rights with caveats in the OP, but to date, get the impression they are garbage humans and they and that mob were meant for each other. Would be interesting to see what their lawsuit entailed.
The way it reads, they were the defendants vs filing it on behalf of a client.
Whiskey_Bravo
07-22-20, 16:25
I agree with that, but those two are true bottom feeding attorneys who appear to be always looking for a pay out or what ever:
"Patricia McCloskey and her husband, Mark McCloskey, have said the handgun Patricia McCloskey waved at protesters was inoperable because they had used it as a prop during a lawsuit they once filed against a gun manufacturer. In order to bring it into a courtroom, they made it inoperable."
Everything I read about them so far makes me like them less and less. I support their 2A Rights with caveats in the OP, but to date, get the impression they are garbage humans and they and that mob were meant for each other. Would be interesting to see what their lawsuit entailed.
The way it reads, they were the defendants vs filing it on behalf of a client.
Agreed.
Averageman
07-22-20, 17:30
Wow, they will stop at nothing.. The handgun was used as a prop in court while suing a gun manufacturer. Regardless, tampering with evidence?
Patricia McCloskey’s gun didn’t work, so the corrupt prosecutor had it fixed so she could charge McCloskey…
https://therightscoop.com/patricia-mccloskeys-gun-didnt-work-so-the-corrupt-prosecutor-had-it-fixed-so-she-could-charge-mccloskey/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_kCizzxX8
A group of rather prominent DA's are now protesting, calling out the Missouri Circuit Attorney for these actions was wrong they say.
Im glad someone else posted this up, i had intended to. These people apparently sued a firearms manufacturer, I'm sure in a products liability case.
They are the very worst, vile scum. I cannot and will not support their Second Amendment Rights. They have NONE.
Go read Jeffersons letter to the Danbury Baptists (Yes, the one horribly misconstrued regarding the separation of Church and State) to understand the nexus between Rights and RESPONSIBILITIES.....The Founders didnt see them as independent of one another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_kCizzxX8
A group of rather prominent DA's are now protesting, calling out the Missouri Circuit Attorney for these actions was wrong they say.
And NOTHING will come of it. The law is only enforced one way....To any thinking person, that might be a sign that it has become an instrument of tyranny......"Call the police"....Lol...
Grand58742
07-23-20, 07:13
Im glad someone else posted this up, i had intended to. These people apparently sued a firearms manufacturer, I'm sure in a products liability case.
They are the very worst, vile scum. I cannot and will not support their Second Amendment Rights. They have NONE.
Go read Jeffersons letter to the Danbury Baptists (Yes, the one horribly misconstrued regarding the separation of Church and State) to understand the nexus between Rights and RESPONSIBILITIES.....The Founders didnt see them as independent of one another.
And this is why we fail as a movement to oppose gun control. Good for me, but not for thee.
Grand58742
07-23-20, 07:14
Double tap
And this is why we fail as a movement to oppose gun control. Good for me, but not for thee.
First i need to correct the Jefferson comment, his Rights vs. Duties opinion is found in a letter to Francis Gilmore, not the Danbury letter. Thats what i get for reading hundreds of his letters and going by memory....
The reason we FAIL TO ADVANCE OUR RIGHTS is because we follow "the rules" ... Alinskys Rules for Radicals makes this clear---Rule #4- "Make the enemy live up to his own book of Rules". Your ENEMY has told you how he plans to defeat you and you STUPIDLY oblige him?
So, when we see Communist Scum with guns we think we must defend them! We must use our resources, our strength to support our enemies!!! Literally as Lenin said, "They will sell us the rope we use to hang them". This is madness!!!!
Notice how all through the sixties and seventies we had to defend Free Speech? It was perfectly ok to burn the flag, to burn a draft card. to make sacrilegious art-Piss Jesus etc....and the dumbasses on our side kept saying, "I may not agree with what you are saying but i will defend to the death your right to say it" ...Remember that?
Does the Left the Stalwart Defender of "Free Speech" now defend "Hate Speech"???....NO! THEY DO NOT! Instead, they literally beat and run off campus (Michelle Malkin, Andy Ngo etc...) anyone who opposes their orthodoxy. When has the ACLU filed a brief in support of expanding Second Amendment rights? They only care about WINNING, principles be damned---because winning is all that matters!
We lose because we CHOOSE TO DO SO because we are unwilling to do what it takes to win! Keep supporting the rights of your enemies while they attack yours at every opportunity with no guiding principle other than winning ...and keep wondering why you lose. As I have said before, Principles are the luxury of WINNERS! Win first, pontificate later.
Whiskey_Bravo
07-23-20, 09:05
We lose because we CHOOSE TO DO SO because we are unwilling to do what it takes to win!.
This is really the highlight here.
Grand58742
07-23-20, 09:48
First i need to correct the Jefferson comment, his Rights vs. Duties opinion is found in a letter to Francis Gilmore, not the Danbury letter. Thats what i get for reading hundreds of his letters and going by memory....
The reason we FAIL TO ADVANCE OUR RIGHTS is because we follow "the rules" ... Alinskys Rules for Radicals makes this clear---Rule #4- "Make the enemy live up to his own book of Rules". Your ENEMY has told you how he plans to defeat you and you STUPIDLY oblige him?
So, when we see Communist Scum with guns we think we must defend them! We must use our resources, our strength to support our enemies!!! Literally as Lenin said, "They will sell us the rope we use to hang them". This is madness!!!!
Notice how all through the sixties and seventies we had to defend Free Speech? It was perfectly ok to burn the flag, to burn a draft card. to make sacrilegious art-Piss Jesus etc....and the dumbasses on our side kept saying, "I may not agree with what you are saying but i will defend to the death your right to say it" ...Remember that?
Does the Left the Stalwart Defender of "Free Speech" now defend "Hate Speech"???....NO! THEY DO NOT! Instead, they literally beat and run off campus (Michelle Malkin, Andy Ngo etc...) anyone who opposes their orthodoxy. When has the ACLU filed a brief in support of expanding Second Amendment rights? They only care about WINNING, principles be damned---because winning is all that matters!
We lose because we CHOOSE TO DO SO because we are unwilling to do what it takes to win! Keep supporting the rights of your enemies while they attack yours at every opportunity with no guiding principle other than winning ...and keep wondering why you lose. As I have said before, Principles are the luxury of WINNERS! Win first, pontificate later.
And how exactly do we know what this lawsuit was about? I have this feeling if it was seriously nefarious like a class action lawsuit vis-à-vis the Sandy Hook type lawsuit against the weapon manufacturer, we would have heard about it.
So, really, who cares if they filed a lawsuit against a manufacturer? But to really call them "communists" because they represented clients in a case against Walther or whomever?
They also followed the rules by using their 2A Right to thwart tyranny when it came to their doorstep. Tyranny doesn't have to come from a government (though in this case, the lines are certainly blurred with government sanctioned "protests") and came through a locked gate into their community. They exercised their rights and kept tyranny at bay.
StovePipe_Jammer
07-23-20, 11:01
We lose because we CHOOSE TO DO SO because we are unwilling to do what it takes to win! Keep supporting the rights of your enemies while they attack yours at every opportunity with no guiding principle other than winning ...and keep wondering why you lose. As I have said before, Principles are the luxury of WINNERS! Win first, pontificate later.
The case in Missouri is an example. The radical Left are demonstrating that they are more than willing to go after what can likely be considered their own side using shady tactics (including evidence tampering) unless they are totally in lock step with the narrative.
If they are doing this to their own, rights be damned, what stops will they pull out for us? Follow the law, get charged. Disobey the law, get charged. All of it AO and political persuasion dependent, of course.
And this is why we fail as a movement to oppose gun control. Good for me, but not for thee.
But they were never part of the movement to oppose gun control. In fact they were part of the movement to destroy the gun industry. Just because Chicago gang bangers use guns doesn't make them "one of the team" either.
Now I'm glad the optics on this are working in favor of pro second amendment views, but those two are very sacrificial in my mind because they sacrificed all of us a long time ago.
vicious_cb
07-24-20, 00:19
Sacrifice them = lose all your rights to defend your home.
Here's the line of thought from a cowboy just in from late night ranch work. I think of that rich couple in St. Louis like I would the full color poster of some hot gal from my teenage years. Fine looking woman like Farah Fawcett or Jacqueline Smith, skimpy outfit, the stuff all kinds of dreams are made of. You can't wait to crawl in the sack with that beautiful woman. Then you read the tabloids like the National Enquirer or the Globe, and you find out she's a frigid little bitch who's on her third husband, and she's just rotten to the core.
The McCloskey's are serving a purpose of being the Poster subjects of every American who imagines being in the same situation - defending hearth and home with guns against the hoards of the unclean. They too may be rotten human beings, but they're the stuff dreams are made of. The picture is the reality for most - the truth is something else. Kind of like the saying about publishing stories of Old West historic figures; if the legend is more interesting than the truth, print the legend.
Sacrifice them = lose all your rights to defend your home.
Not sure how I'm sacrificing them. I'm simply seeing them for what they are. Now if I was actually on a jury, I might set my feelings for "them" aside and defend their "rights", but I'm not on the jury.
Here's the line of thought from a cowboy just in from late night ranch work. I think of that rich couple in St. Louis like I would the full color poster of some hot gal from my teenage years. Fine looking woman like Farah Fawcett or Jacqueline Smith, skimpy outfit, the stuff all kinds of dreams are made of. You can't wait to crawl in the sack with that beautiful woman. Then you read the tabloids like the National Enquirer or the Globe, and you find out she's a frigid little bitch who's on her third husband, and she's just rotten to the core.
The McCloskey's are serving a purpose of being the Poster subjects of every American who imagines being in the same situation - defending hearth and home with guns against the hoards of the unclean. They too may be rotten human beings, but they're the stuff dreams are made of. The picture is the reality for most - the truth is something else. Kind of like the saying about publishing stories of Old West historic figures; if the legend is more interesting than the truth, print the legend.
Which brings us full circle from the OP in my view: viewed correctly and positioned appropriately, their situation is a win for us, but they're not some 2A supporting gun totin' heroes by any means.
That's been my position all along and the intel that's come to light about them since the OP only firms that up for me.
Grand58742
07-24-20, 10:29
But they were never part of the movement to oppose gun control. In fact they were part of the movement to destroy the gun industry. Just because Chicago gang bangers use guns doesn't make them "one of the team" either.
Now I'm glad the optics on this are working in favor of pro second amendment views, but those two are very sacrificial in my mind because they sacrificed all of us a long time ago.
Again, what was the lawsuit for?
Again, what was the lawsuit for?
Weren't they trying to sue a gun manufacturer for some criminal misuse of their product?
Grand58742
07-25-20, 01:13
Weren't they trying to sue a gun manufacturer for some criminal misuse of their product?
I don't know. I haven't seen exactly what it was for.
These people are the lowest form of human scum. I despise everything that they done in their professional and personal lives based upon what I’ve read. HOWEVER, that does not change the fact that the 2a is for everyone. And frankly, they are the best test case for this, because they are litigious turds with deep pockets. They will fight it until they get their desired outcome, which is the constitutionally correct outcome. And then maybe they can also see this piece of shit AG held accountable.
These people are the lowest form of human scum. I despise everything that they done in their professional and personal lives based upon what I’ve read. HOWEVER, that does not change the fact that the 2a is for everyone. And frankly, they are the best test case for this, because they are litigious turds with deep pockets. They will fight it until they get their desired outcome, which is the constitutionally correct outcome. And then maybe they can also see this piece of shit AG held accountable.
That's the advantage they have: deep pockets. Can you imagine people with ordinary means fighting this case? Mortgage your home, wipe out your savings, in a legal processing system where the outcome is a crap-shoot, at best? How about a retired person, on pension, with some savings? Wipe it all out? I'll bet that DA would have overcharged and added window dressing, just to get a person with ordinary means to cave. I hope these people win it, scum that they are. Of course, if they revert to anti gun activities, the love can wane, and stuff should happen. Yeah, I for one, have had enough with a lot of things.
BoringGuy45
07-25-20, 13:54
This has been the left's MO for awhile: Test the waters by violating the rights of assholes. Randy Weaver was a far right crazy with white supremacist leanings, David Koresh was a psycho cult leader and likely pedophile, Cliven Bundy is a sovereign citizen conspiracy theorist, and now these numbnuts who are simultaneously the archetype of the rotten neighbors you wish would just die a horrible fiery death AND the ambulance chasing lawyers who sued and schemed their way into wealth. The left knows that they need to target people the right needs to cringe about supporting...or not support at all.
This has been the left's MO for awhile: Test the waters by violating the rights of assholes. Randy Weaver was a far right crazy with white supremacist leanings, David Koresh was a psycho cult leader and likely pedophile, Cliven Bundy is a sovereign citizen conspiracy theorist, and now these numbnuts who are simultaneously the archetype of the rotten neighbors you wish would just die a horrible fiery death AND the ambulance chasing lawyers who sued and schemed their way into wealth. The left knows that they need to target people the right needs to cringe about supporting...or not support at all.
You've a point, there. If they aren't supported, a precedent is established. The left gets emboldened by a success, and opponents are cowed by it.
Diamondback
07-25-20, 14:28
You've a point, there. If they aren't supported, a precedent is established. The left gets emboldened by a success, and opponents are cowed by it.
Was it this thread where I linked my old RedState piece pointing this very pattern out all the way back when they Unpersoned Alex Jones? They target the disgusting and reprehensible to get us to either join the dogpile or remain silent, then once we open that door... Complicity is Consent.
NEVER give a Leftist an inch on ANYTHING, even saying "hello." As much as we all want civilized times and civilized mores, those are from a bygone era that cannot return until those who tore it down are decisively defeated... and even then we will have to maintain eternal vigilance because they WILL be back, the barbarians always are.
Business_Casual
07-25-20, 14:28
You've a point, there. If they aren't supported, a precedent is established. The left gets emboldened by a success, and opponents are cowed by it.
That was our point way earlier in the thread. Ahole or not, they have rights.
Anyone think this couple no longer has scales on their eyes & have to find a new set of friends since they are no longer like minded or will they go on being hypocrites?? From hearing the chap speak about being wronged by their own in several interviews he talking a new talk.
Maybe but I doubt it
Very very few come over to conservative mindset I think many that have the line has moved under them as so many conservatives give and give and give they(As in the more left) stood still and just looked around and realized they are on a new side without really changing ! Since the line itself moved and not them
Anyone think this couple no longer has scales on their eyes & have to find a new set of friends since they are no longer like minded or will they go on being hypocrites?? From hearing the chap speak about being wronged by their own in several interviews he talking a new talk.
titsonritz
05-19-21, 20:56
St. Louis Attorney targeted by BLM mob announces Senate run. Wonder what Kim Gardner thinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71R-vhQA5ho
Coal Dragger
05-19-21, 21:50
LOL, that dumb bitch has bigger problems:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/st-louis-attorney-kim-gardner-greitens-discipline-ethics-hearing.amp
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-20-21, 01:51
This has been the left's MO for awhile: Test the waters by violating the rights of assholes. Randy Weaver was a far right crazy with white supremacist leanings, David Koresh was a psycho cult leader and likely pedophile, Cliven Bundy is a sovereign citizen conspiracy theorist, and now these numbnuts who are simultaneously the archetype of the rotten neighbors you wish would just die a horrible fiery death AND the ambulance chasing lawyers who sued and schemed their way into wealth. The left knows that they need to target people the right needs to cringe about supporting...or not support at all.
Oddly enough, they do it on their side too. Does anyone think that Chauvin, Michael Brown, or Jackob Blake are great champions for the cause? They all were behaving badly to different degrees. The guy a few years ago in an Ohio Walmart talking on the phone while carrying an out-of-box air gun gets the "Bang, stop or I'll shoot" treatment- and who remembers that case.
BoringGuy45
05-20-21, 18:17
Oddly enough, they do it on their side too. Does anyone think that Chauvin, Michael Brown, or Jackob Blake are great champions for the cause? They all were behaving badly to different degrees. The guy a few years ago in an Ohio Walmart talking on the phone while carrying an out-of-box air gun gets the "Bang, stop or I'll shoot" treatment- and who remembers that case.
I think it's a little different on their side. First, these cases are all they have to show "racism"; it's only the stupid thugs who try and fight with or run from the cops who are...surprise surprise...getting killed by the police. But they need somebody to create their narrative that no black person in America is safe so long as we have our current police system. That's why BLM lies about them and recasts them as gentle souls who committed no crime except being born with the wrong skin color: Because real law abiding, upstanding black citizens aren't getting killed by the police.
Second, the left doesn't have a problem with crime. BLM is, in fact, pro-crime. They believe that armed robbery is morally and legally justified if the person is doing it out of necessity; Patrisse Cullors says so directly in her book. So these people ARE heroes to them because criminals ARE people to be admired.
The difference is that, on the right, not many people will say wonderful thing about David Koresh or Randy Weaver. Admittedly, some, especially those with more radical right persuasions, do see them as heroes. But I think most on the right see them as total pieces of shit who, nonetheless, were wronged by the government.
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