View Full Version : Letter in Harpers: Some liberars "get" it
An important letter from a long list of liberal names of note. There's a rift happening among liberals and progressives, which is not the same thing. One and all, dislike Trump and the ilk, but understand the threat to free speech taking place as an even larger threat:
A Letter on Justice and Open Debate
July 7, 2020
The below letter will be appearing in the Letters section of the magazine’s October issue. We welcome responses at letters@harpers.org
Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society, not least in higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second. The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.
The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters.
Cont:
https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
Averageman
07-08-20, 11:42
Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society, not least in higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second. The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.
The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters.
I appreciate that they appear to "get it", but the nature of some of those statements is grossly oversimplified.
BLM doesn't want equality, because they are already greater than equal when it comes to opportunity in the United States. Opportunity for education and employment already have the scales tilted in their favor.
I see this totally different, they are living in a delusion, they want the cheese, they just don't want to put in the work to get the cheese, they want it handed to them.
The idea that when Law Enforcement engages them in conversation that it has already become a race issue is ridiculous. That physical resistance to arrest isn't a contact sport that often involves physical injuries and death is the same regardless of your melanin content.
African Americans are angry, but they should be angry that they allowed their culture to fail. When Fathers left the home never to return because Johnson's "Great Society" allowed the Democratic Party to hold them forever on a totally new Plantation.
BoringGuy45
07-08-20, 11:46
I don't know if they "get it" or if it's just them demanding that THEY should keep their free speech, but the right should still be subject to censorship.
I don't know if they "get it" or if it's just them demanding that THEY should keep their free speech, but the right should still be subject to censorship.
Yep, that's the gist of the article from my perception-
"Don't lump us in with those terrible right wing extremists, they are bad, we are good, don't take away our ability to have an opinion...by the way did I mention that the right wing is evil, how about one more time, those right wingers are bad, but not us liberals so, yeah..."
The writer still is doing everything he can to degredate those on the opposite side of the issue. Statements like "....of course we expect this intolerance on the right...." is plainly dishonest, convenient for their already over taxed brain.
Eff their supposed understanding, I look foward to hear about the writer being devoured by his friends in a virtue signal feeding frenzy
Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk
I appreciate that they appear to "get it", but the nature of some of those statements is grossly oversimplified.
BLM doesn't want equality, because they are already greater than equal when it comes to opportunity in the United States. Opportunity for education and employment already have the scales tilted in their favor.
I see this totally different, they are living in a delusion, they want the cheese, they just don't want to put in the work to get the cheese, they want it handed to them.
The idea that when Law Enforcement engages them in conversation that it has already become a race issue is ridiculous. That physical resistance to arrest isn't a contact sport that often involves physical injuries and death is the same regardless of your melanin content.
African Americans are angry, but they should be angry that they allowed their culture to fail. When Fathers left the home never to return because Johnson's "Great Society" allowed the Democratic Party to hold them forever on a totally new Plantation.
All good points. I guess I mean they "get it" compared the raving loons from the progressives who are now dominating the narrative and now that they're being censored by those progressives, they're waking up a bit. I think we have to read between the lines a bit, but it does suggest per my prior post, there's rift getting larger between the more classic old school liberal types and the modern progressives.
Averageman
07-08-20, 12:34
All good points. I guess I mean they "get it" compared the raving loons from the progressives who are now dominating the narrative and now that they're being censored by those progressives, they're waking up a bit. I think we have to read between the lines a bit, but it does suggest per my prior post, there's rift getting larger between the more classic old school liberal types and the modern progressives.
The rift is violence and destruction.
They've come to the realization that they have, for all their good intentions, turned loose a monster that intends to destroy them.
Imagine the audacity of the realization when these folks break down your gate, threaten you, your home and your dog, etc. That's quite a moment of clarity for some Liberals who have spent no small amount of time keeping these same folks out of jail.
I guess they got "Woke" on the other side of the bed that day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVd0kWmEAwM
Outside of the Military, the above pretty much sums up my experience with race relations in America.
I don't hate Black People, hell I was married to a Black Woman and our Son who is caught up in the Covid/College/Quarantine drama right now and he's living at home again.
I do however hate certain segments of Black Culture and I am pretty sure, these folks hate me on sight. That's okay, I don't care.
I don't know if they "get it" or if it's just them demanding that THEY should keep their free speech, but the right should still be subject to censorship.
Agreed. They want to have their cake and eat it to. They point to the rationality of their argument however, they point to the right with the same rationality and tell us that they've set the morality benchmark, and that the right has passed this somehow.
Averageman
07-08-20, 13:03
Agreed. They want to have their cake and eat it to. They point to the rationality of their argument however, they point to the right with the same rationality and tell us that they've set the morality benchmark, and that the right has passed this somehow.
I hope you watched the video.
The liberals don't want to have "Their Cake and eat it too", they want the cake from the Conservative Middle Class and divide it up among others they deserve to be more deserving of Your property, rights and well being.
They are pretty quick to judge you based open where you were born, your age and the color of your skin, pretty much just the opposite of everything MLK ever said.
That their isn't systemic racism among Black people is an outright lie and it is a lie the Socialist/Progressive movement wants you to believe.
They are pretty quick to judge you based open where you were born, your age and the color of your skin, pretty much just the opposite of everything MLK ever said.
That their isn't systemic racism among Black people is an outright lie and it is a lie the Socialist/Progressive movement wants you to believe.
I didn't watch the video, I'm at work and I can't play youtube on the network. I completely agree, MLK actually fought to build a better nation, a better republic, and a better America. The movements we've seen want communism, and want equal outcome, not equal opportunity.
The Left created this Monster, and now the Monster is too dangerous even for the creator. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein with a twist.
My mom's family is in eastern NC, and some of them are still democrat, but old-school, old-south democrat (think kinda like Jim Webb). To hear them talk, they really actually sound more libertarian. But they loathe what's happened to the democrat party, and are really apoplectic at what's been going on with the severe divergence to the radical, violent left.
One thing I love about them, they won't vote if they don't like the candidate. They might vote for Biden if his VP pick is to their taste, but they may not vote for president at all.
All good points. I guess I mean they "get it" compared the raving loons from the progressives who are now dominating the narrative and now that they're being censored by those progressives, they're waking up a bit. I think we have to read between the lines a bit, but it does suggest per my prior post, there's rift getting larger between the more classic old school liberal types and the modern progressives.
Old school meaning Johnson + -- not real old school classical liberals, which are the libertarians (small-l).
I don't know if they "get it" or if it's just them demanding that THEY should keep their free speech, but the right should still be subject to censorship.
Exactly. I boggles the mind that these intolerant f#$kbags have the balls to say conservatives are the ones trying to control speech/info/censorship. Classic liberal hypocrites campaigning against EXACTLY what they are all about.
Averageman
07-08-20, 15:34
There was a transitional period during and after the Johnson Administration that left the Democrats at odds with the changes in their Party. The result (and this is only my perception) is the Dixiecrats.
They loved some Jim Crow and Johnson had to figure a way to keep control of the Black Vote and Culture. Having a hand-up from FDR, Johnson came up with the "Great Society" to attain that control.
Robert Byrd was a mentor to Hillary, coincidence?
I dont know what these people get or got. They have a bad case of TDS from what I read. They're just a little right of the Stalinists that are trying to grab power.
Old school meaning Johnson + -- not real old school classical liberals, which are the libertarians (small-l).
Roger that. I get ma liberals confused some times. I'm a right leaning (small-l) libertarian myself, with occasional large L positions. Currently I identify a blender.
I don't know if they "get it" or if it's just them demanding that THEY should keep their free speech, but the right should still be subject to censorship.
Ditto basically whiny babies only want THEIR view and funny who cares about harpers so this will be in the oct edition Hahahaah who reads actual magazines like this anymore ?
Diamondback
07-08-20, 17:25
Don't mistake this for "moderation" or "with us," they're just trying to carve a bubble out of Cancel Culture to protect themselves and would still gleefully Unperson us all at the first opportunity.
Don't mistake this for "moderation" or "with us," they're just trying to carve a bubble out of Cancel Culture to protect themselves and would still gleefully Unperson us all at the first opportunity.
Spot on, sir
Screw these people, they still don't support the Constitution.
But they are smart enough to know they will get eaten first when the Marxist take over.
Diamondback
07-08-20, 22:47
Screw these people, they still don't support the Constitution.
But they are smart enough to know they will get eaten first when the Marxist take over.
Yeah, if they were genuine they'd do the David Horowitz Turn.
I don't know if they "get it" or if it's just them demanding that THEY should keep their free speech, but the right should still be subject to censorship.
That's pretty much my take. Another MO couple that's fine with everything until it happens on their lawn and in their gated community.
Put me in the rigid "you're either with us, or against us" camp- when it comes to supporting, or to living- the values, principles and morals on which our country was founded.
Eff those dirtbags. The only silver lining to this shitshow will be seeing these whiney co$&suckers get torn to pieces by the people they helped to create.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-09-20, 06:38
All they want is to be equal, just more equal than you.
Put me in the rigid "you're either with us, or against us" camp- when it comes to supporting, or to living- the values, principles and morals on which our country was founded.
Eff those dirtbags. The only silver lining to this shitshow will be seeing these whiney co$&suckers get torn to pieces by the people they helped to create.
If we are really, really lucky we might get another 1968 Democratic convention.
If we are really, really lucky we might get another 1968 Democratic convention.
I doubt it. They are going to prop Biden up in the corner while the ComDem clown show does all the talking for him. Bernie Sanders will have his hand up Biden's butt making his mouth move and speaking for him.
Prop up reminded me of the older movie “weekend at bernies”
Would be fun to see a parody of the radical leftist holding up a mental dead (as he is) floppy Biden and making him do things :)
I doubt it. They are going to prop Biden up in the corner while the ComDem clown show does all the talking for him. Bernie Sanders will have his hand up Biden's butt making his mouth move and speaking for him.
Apparently all the lefty cancel culture types are having a rage fit over this article. Haha
Apparently all the lefty cancel culture types are having a rage fit over this article. Haha
They sure are. The triggering is awesome.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.