View Full Version : Primary Arms Warranty a big Disappointment. Update
Update: They agreed to send me a replacement scope. Hopefully all is well with the new one. I doubt I will be mounting it on my AR10 though. Already looking for a higher end one.
Over a month ago I built an AR10 in .308. I ended up taking my 5x ACSS off my AR15 that I had for some time without a single issue and mounted it on my AR10.
I sighted the rifle in with no issues. Well, around 75rnds total thru the gun I noticed random stringing and just bad grouping. Switching between 3 different kinds of ammo made no difference and I decided to move up to around 50yds to see if anything changed. No luck, yet I was able to get decent groups with my side mounted RMR. Pissed and not able to figure out the issue I went home.
Looking everything over at home I noticed the Rear Eyepiece Focus Ring was wobbly unless fully tightened down. I took the 5x off my gun and sure enough while looking through the eyepiece and moving it I could move the reticle(I'm assuming its etched to the glass on the eyepiece) I ended up clamping it to my table and sighting in on a target on my wall. I was able to move the reticle via the eyepiece up, down, left and right off the center of the target.
I emailed primary arms a couple days later. Got a very quick response, explained everything and made sure it was still under warranty. They sent me an RMR and I sent it in. Little over 2 weeks later I get this email.
They noted there is no mechanical issue that would affect it's functionality.Additionally, they are reporting that it is testing within the standards for the optic on the collimator (zeroing and adjustment) and in recoil testing (holding zero).
Could NOT believe it. I'm assuming they didn't even look at the issue I described. The scope isn't losing zero, the eyepiece is shifting moving the reticle causing the point of aim/impact to be off. Either way they said they're sending it back. So, looks like I'll have to find the best focal point on it and red loctite the rear eyepiece and deal with it. I own lots of Primary Arms optics but this has changed my view of them.
I see they're a sponsor on here so hopefully my post doesnt magically disappear.
Sounds like you need to call and speak with someone and explain the issue verbally.
Coal Dragger
07-09-20, 20:02
Should have bought glass from a reputable manufacturer of known quality that has a history of making glass for hard recoiling rifles and hard use.
Got what you paid for.
That sucks man. I had been looking at getting an optic for my AR10 from them and I’m rethinking that now.
hotrodder636
07-09-20, 22:03
Agreed. A lot is lost in translation from email/text.
Sounds like you need to call and speak with someone and explain the issue verbally.
everready73
07-10-20, 07:46
I am sure if you contact them and rely the info again they will take care of it. I have seen them replace/fix optics at no charge that were first gen stuff way out of warranty. Most have a lifetime now, not sure if the prisms do.
Marsh posts here and i am betting if he sees this it will be addressed. If not, email or call in directly for him.
Eurodriver
07-10-20, 07:55
Should have bought glass from a reputable manufacturer of known quality that has a history of making glass for hard recoiling rifles and hard use.
Got what you paid for.
This.
This.
That ^
Cheapo Red Dots are one thing for beater guns. But when it comes to magnified glass, it's just not worth it to go primary arms.
Eurodriver
07-10-20, 08:43
That ^
Cheapo Red Dots are one thing for beater guns. But when it comes to magnified glass, it's just not worth it to go primary arms.
Agreed.
There’s a lot that goes into a scope that tracks right and doesn’t fall apart. I am fortunate enough that my time is more valuable to me than my money, and even if PA did correct the issue I’d still have to reinstall and level the scope, go rezero the weapon and still I would never fully trust it. This would mean bringing a backup rifle if I was doing a gas gun PRS match or something. What a headache.
One doesn’t even need to go stupid like NF or S&B. Higher tier Vortex’s aren’t even that expensive, and you can buy used ACOGs for only $200 more than that thing costs.
gunnerblue
07-10-20, 10:49
[QUOTE=Coal Dragger;2861131]Should have bought glass from a reputable manufacturer of known quality that has a history of making glass for hard recoiling rifles and hard use.
Got what you paid for.[/QUOT
Exactly. Buy cheap, buy twice
SomeOtherGuy
07-10-20, 11:00
FWIW I had to send a $1200 scope back to its US-based maker twice to get a basic issue fixed. Bad warranty service is not that rare. In that case the company had a CS side of idiots just trying to close out tickets, and only with persistence did the scope eventually get to an actual tech, who identified the problem in 30 seconds and replaced the scope.
Had a completely unrelated military-focused $1100 optic go back to its different US maker once for a total failure of the adjustment mechanism. They denied a problem but the unmistakable problem was gone when the scope came back.
YMMV.
This is why companies like Nightforce stay in business. Sure, brand X seems to be the same for 1/3 the price, but NF (and some others) actually work out of the box, 99.99% of the time.
I called, need to wait for a reply back as person I called was not clear about the issue I was describing.
Before I make a fool of myself does everyone understand what I'm talking about?
If the Rear Focal Ring/Diopter/Ocular(whatever you wish to call it) is NOT tightened all the way down you can shift it Left, Right, Up and down. While looking through the optic on a fixed target and applying finger pressure to the Ocular lens/diopter you can make the reticle move off target. The whole target doesn't move, just the reticle. This does not seem like it should be happening.
Yeah, think of all that ammo wasted chasing this kind of shit, then the need to rezero / confirm it works when it comes back and factor it into the cost of a 'cheap' optic.
Not to mention, what is your time worth to you dealing with this shit.
Screw that.
mebiuspower
07-10-20, 19:06
Should have bought glass from a reputable manufacturer of known quality that has a history of making glass for hard recoiling rifles and hard use.
Got what you paid for.
This.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-10-20, 20:01
Stuff like this makes me glad I dumped all the Primary Arms/Holosun optics that I had on nonessential guns and replaced them with non Chinese manufactured optics.
Coal Dragger
07-11-20, 18:14
Agreed.
There’s a lot that goes into a scope that tracks right and doesn’t fall apart. I am fortunate enough that my time is more valuable to me than my money, and even if PA did correct the issue I’d still have to reinstall and level the scope, go rezero the weapon and still I would never fully trust it. This would mean bringing a backup rifle if I was doing a gas gun PRS match or something. What a headache.
One doesn’t even need to go stupid like NF or S&B. Higher tier Vortex’s aren’t even that expensive, and you can buy used ACOGs for only $200 more than that thing costs.
Once upon a time while I was in college, before I got a sweet vacation to Iraq, I had a job with Bass Pro Shops in the Springfield, MO store. We had a 100 yard rifle tube in the store, and at various times I would help mount scopes and sight in customer rifles. This sounds at first glance like a fun job, but you would be wrong. You would be wrong because most people buy total garbage.
I can tell you it is no fun at all hammering 20 rounds of .300 Remington Ultra Mag down range out of a hunting rifle with a cheap stock, 5lb trigger, and budget scope in cheap mounts that will not hold adjustments. The whole exercise is just pointless and stupid. After about 10 rounds it’s also painful. Now do this dumb shit about 6-7 times per day just to make the lesson sink in.
The only plus side to all of that shooting of other people’s guns, and burning their ammo is learning who makes stuff that works and who doesn’t.
A cheap rifle can often be mechanically quite accurate off of a bench, even if it’s otherwise an unpleasant trash pile to shoot that will never give good practical accuracy to a shooter in the field because it’s not user friendly. Old Savages are a good example.
Sometimes cheap ammo turns in great groups, and premium ammo turns in mediocre results in some barrels.
But a cheap optic is almost always a dumpster fire on top of a gun you actually plan to use, and it’s the most likely item along with mounts that people will skimp on. Even if you tell them it’s a bad idea, they will still buy some bargain basement trash optic.
These people then turn around and complain that their shit optic is still shit after they had it replaced or fixed. What did they think was going to happen? They think to themselves “I’ll send in my janky Chinese sourced Primary Arms scope that fell apart when I actually tried to use it, and they will rebuild it or replace it with the special sauce version that’s as good as a Nightforce! They have a lifetime guarantee, so they’ll make sure it’s good this time!”
Then they get a brand new Chinese sourced replacement that has no more QA/QC than the original. Maybe it breaks if they actually use it, or maybe this one holds up. It’s a dice roll.
This chance is also taken by the distributors of these cheap sketchy optics, the calculation is that most of their customers don’t actually shoot enough to encounter an issue and therefore turning out unreliable trash with a lifetime guarantee at a high markup is a good business model. The vast majority never discover their scope is hot garbage, and the few that do can be covered when needed at relatively low cost. This is a pretty solid business model for the firearms industry, because for some reason a lot of consumers in this community will put up with shockingly bad products that don’t work right and come back for more.
My most expensive scopes have been the ones I have had the least regrets about and no problem with.
People say nightforce are so expensive, I guess. But the value has been there for me, and I don’t have the super expensive ones though. I have a nxs 1-4, nxs 2.5-10, and nx8. All three were purchased for under 1500$, some closer to 1000$. They all came assembled properly, have not broken on me over years and years of use for some. Have great reticles and nice turrets and other strong features.
I have two ACOGs a 4x and a 1.5x. Again great scopes and nothing but a success for me.
Now I have three Leupolds. One of them cost me over 1000$, a vx6 1-6. It has a great reticle and excellent glass. But it came with a canted reticle and the turrets iare really low quality. I have another vx6 1-6 I picked it cheap on sale for 700$. The magnification adjustment is extremely extremely stiff. The ocular focus thing is rediculously easy to turn, like three times easier than the magnification. Same junky turrets obviously. This one has a not so great reticle. But the glass and eye box on both are quite nice. But seriously both come from the factory poorly assembled? Great they have a lifetime warranty, send it in and get it fixed, but come on what a pain in the aas. To me a scope that arrives properly assembled is of more value to me than the customer being the QC/QA and having to send it back. While less expensive, these scopes offer less value to the customer. My third leupold is a vxr 1.5-4. It came assembled properly. But 1.5 my aas. Compared to my 1.5x acog it’s very different. Either the acog is much closer to 1X or the vxr is closer to 2x, which is my guess. Again points here for the acog. It has the same chinsey turrets as the vx6. Lastly is durability. This scope and rifle took a tumble out of my side by side the other day into a grass field. The ocular end has a rubber ring attached, it is attached to a thin piece of aluminum. That aluminum bent. There was never a need for that rubber and the thin aluminum it was attached to. It just made a weak spot. Neither the acog or nightforce is assembled this way, no ether would have been damaged.
Cliffs; companies that have a great name/reputation and higher price offer a much better value in my experience.
I called, need to wait for a reply back as person I called was not clear about the issue I was describing.
Before I make a fool of myself does everyone understand what I'm talking about?
If the Rear Focal Ring/Diopter/Ocular(whatever you wish to call it) is NOT tightened all the way down you can shift it Left, Right, Up and down. While looking through the optic on a fixed target and applying finger pressure to the Ocular lens/diopter you can make the reticle move off target. The whole target doesn't move, just the reticle. This does not seem like it should be happening.
Your description of the problem is perfectly clear and no, that is not right. Requiring the lock ring to make up for poor threads is not normal.
Andy
My experience with primary arms is this:
They make a great cheap rds. I would take theirs over vortex and hold them equal to holosun. That being said, i had 1 die on me. The warranty experience was good. I had another that always seemed too dim compared to my others. I sent it in and they told me it was in spec and they were going to send it back. I complained and they sent me a new one, which oddly enough seems too dim but its just for a plinker so i don't care.
I have not been happy with any of their magnified optics however. I have used there 2.5x,3x, and 5x prism scopes. There 1-6x&1-8x silver line scopes. There 4-14 and there 3-18x scopes, and their 1-8x platinum. Out of all of those, the platinum is the only one i would recommend, and for the price I think there are better options. I had one of their 1-6x go tits up on me.
I think Athlon makes a better budget freindly scope. I prefer to not go below a vortex pst quality level though. Anything below that level seems to end in headache.
Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk
My experience with primary arms is this:
They make a great cheap rds. I would take theirs over vortex and hold them equal to holosun. That being said, i had 1 die on me. The warranty experience was good. I had another that always seemed too dim compared to my others. I sent it in and they told me it was in spec and they were going to send it back. I complained and they sent me a new one, which oddly enough seems too dim but its just for a plinker so i don't care.
I have not been happy with any of their magnified optics however. I have used there 2.5x,3x, and 5x prism scopes. There 1-6x&1-8x silver line scopes. There 4-14 and there 3-18x scopes, and their 1-8x platinum. Out of all of those, the platinum is the only one i would recommend, and for the price I think there are better options. I had one of their 1-6x go tits up on me.
I think Athlon makes a better budget freindly scope. I prefer to not go below a vortex pst quality level though. Anything below that level seems to end in headache.
Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk
Athlon makes a decent optic. Their customer service is on point like no other. They are based out of Kansas. I had one of their optics give me some problems. The illumination quit working. I contacted them, their outside sales rep personally delivered me another optic and picked up the defective unit the same day I called it in. Helps I reside less than an hour away from their headquarters. But nonetheless, that was awesome customer service
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-14-20, 09:43
Athlon makes a decent optic. Their customer service is on point like no other. They are based out of Kansas. I had one of their optics give me some problems. The illumination quit working. I contacted them, their outside sales rep personally delivered me another optic and picked up the defective unit the same day I called it in. Helps I reside less than an hour away from their headquarters. But nonetheless, that was awesome customer service
Your example of their "customer service is on point like no other" is irrelevant to 99.9% of the population who don't live within an hour drive from their headquarters in Kansas. You're still out the time and ammo spent on the first optic, only to have to turn around and do it again. Did you really save any money once you factor in your time?
All comes down to what you want out of that rifle. Like everything else, figure out what you want from it and buy accordingly.
If you hunt a lot and do tons of long range shooting nightforce may make financial sense. However, going hunting once a year or less why bother with a $1500 optic?
I'm in the latter camp. I don't do long range shooting. Partially because there isn't anywhere near by. You're lucky if you can shoot 100 yards within a 50 mile radius!! And partially because I hunt very little and the places to hunt you don't really need an optic. Not going to be many places where hunting is allowed and visibility is more than 50-70 yards. for this type of shooting I have a Ruger M77 in 3006 with an old ass Redfield scope. Works great! Have owned it for close to 10 years and one day I may actually reach 100 rounds through it!!!! With work and life last time it saw any shooting was 2014ish
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SomeOtherGuy
07-14-20, 20:05
If you hunt a lot and do tons of long range shooting nightforce may make financial sense. However, going hunting once a year or less why bother with a $1500 optic?
Cheap junk is a bad idea no matter how little you use it. I used Nightforce as an example, but they are especially expensive. There are less expensive brands (for their better lines) that I can also recommend. It's better to give up features you don't need, or magnification, than to give up reliability. Many companies make 3-9x40 scopes that are basic as a Ford Taurus but do work. But you ultimately need something that is likely to work and hold up, and while a $500 Burris, Vortex or Leupold may be an option, a $100 anything is a bad idea.
Your example of their "customer service is on point like no other" is irrelevant to 99.9% of the population who don't live within an hour drive from their headquarters in Kansas. You're still out the time and ammo spent on the first optic, only to have to turn around and do it again. Did you really save any money once you factor in your time?
The illumination quit. It did not have a lens fail and shift. It would still work just no illumination. I’ve had other customer service experiences, Sig for example. Had a new P226 front night sight died within a month of ownership. Had a one week turnaround time and that was handled.
Cheap junk is a bad idea no matter how little you use it. I used Nightforce as an example, but they are especially expensive. There are less expensive brands (for their better lines) that I can also recommend. It's better to give up features you don't need, or magnification, than to give up reliability. Many companies make 3-9x40 scopes that are basic as a Ford Taurus but do work. But you ultimately need something that is likely to work and hold up, and while a $500 Burris, Vortex or Leupold may be an option, a $100 anything is a bad idea.
Honestly I don't know how much that Redfield scope is. It came with the rifle. Being that I owned it for about 10 years and shot less than a box of ammo (avg 1 round per year). Even $500 scope would be money better spent elsewhere, even if it's a case of beer. Maybe $200ish.
This is not to say that all products should be bought based on price. Evaluate what it's for and how it's planned to be used. I'd never suggest this for a self defense rifle or even a impractical fun rifle that's shot a lot
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So after reading 3 pages of opinion (And I have my own) I have no clue what low power optic that doesn't come with payments and is still up to protecting the home front? For what it's worth I have a number of both Very high end and a few mid to low end scopes and in 30 odd years of killing PD's in the West I've had every brand go tits up at some point. Like my buddy used to say about the Jaguar dealer across the street from his "Every New Jag they sell comes back on a hook" Price tags only tell a small part of the story.
Vortex pst is a really good budget scope. Their is no sense in buying anything less than that. It just creates headaches and wastes time and money. I have two pst. One 5.5-22 and a 2-10. Both have been through the ringer and keep on ticking. The 5.5-22 is sn 8 I bought it brand new the day they were released and haven’t regretted it one bit.
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The one thing we all agree on is "Junk is Junk" the one thing that is not so clear is at what price point can you get a reasonable product that will stand up to abuse and hard living. Case in point is a Bushnell 3200 Elite that I bought 8 or 9 years ago, its been on a .338/06, a 12 ga, a .357 Max and a varmint rifle that gets dropped way too much and has been treated like a cheating husband! All for $250.00 +- and I still trust it and not much more to say? Now I don't want to have you boy's to think I'm cheap cause all that pretty Green paint in the barn still makes my bankers heart monitor go off but I like Value per $$$$$
SomeOtherGuy
07-22-20, 20:23
So after reading 3 pages of opinion (And I have my own) I have no clue what low power optic that doesn't come with payments and is still up to protecting the home front? For what it's worth I have a number of both Very high end and a few mid to low end scopes and in 30 odd years of killing PD's in the West I've had every brand go tits up at some point.
The one thing we all agree on is "Junk is Junk" the one thing that is not so clear is at what price point can you get a reasonable product that will stand up to abuse and hard living. Case in point is a Bushnell 3200 Elite that I bought 8 or 9 years ago, its been on a .338/06, a 12 ga, a .357 Max and a varmint rifle that gets dropped way too much and has been treated like a cheating husband! All for $250.00 +- and I still trust it and not much more to say? Now I don't want to have you boy's to think I'm cheap cause all that pretty Green paint in the barn still makes my bankers heart monitor go off but I like Value per $$$$$
A 3-9x40, fixed parallax, second focal plane hunting-style scope is a best bet on a low budget. Many companies make OK ones including Leupold, Burris, Nikon (now discontinued), Redfield (a Leupold brand), Vortex, etc. That is the #1 hunting scope in the USA so volume is high, and the optical and mechanical design are simple, so quality can be decent at a moderate price. With any of several brands/models you can expect it to hold zero and not fail in field use.
If you start wanting more magnification or features (illumination, adjustable parallax, exposed turrets for dialing, FFP) then you have to choose between Chinese junk or higher prices.
Some brands have relatively better quality and features at the low end than at the high end - Leupold and Nikon (yes, discontinued) stand out for offering very decent scopes in the $200-300 range, while their higher-end options can be overpriced for what you get. Other companies, like Vortex, I would buy their premium product (Razor) but not their low-end scopes. YMMV.
OP I am truly sorry I did not see this post sooner and could have had you contact me directly. The repair tech clearly did not read what was wrong with the optic. We QC every optic that arrives from our OEM factories in our Houston Texas facility. This is also where our engineering team is based and the repairs are made. We also fully test all new optic designs locally with live fire. Most with thousands of rounds on a .308 SCAR. I am sorry you had this issue. My full direct contact is below. I know you got a replacement but please contact me so I can find out how this happened and fix it.
marshall@primaryarms.com
Marshall Lerner
CEO
Primary Arms LLC
3219 S Sam Houston Pkwy E.
Houston, TX 77047
Phone: 713-344-9595
www.primaryarms.com ◆ www.primaryarmsoptics.com
How many CEO's will hang their stones out there after getting bad mouthed?
mebiuspower
07-28-20, 09:02
"They noted there is no mechanical issue that would affect it's functionality.Additionally, they are reporting that it is testing within the standards for the optic on the collimator (zeroing and adjustment) and in recoil testing (holding zero)."
"The repair tech clearly did not read what was wrong with the optic."
"We QC every optic that arrives from our OEM factories"
Them fighting words!
"They noted there is no mechanical issue that would affect it's functionality.Additionally, they are reporting that it is testing within the standards for the optic on the collimator (zeroing and adjustment) and in recoil testing (holding zero)."
"The repair tech clearly did not read what was wrong with the optic."
"We QC every optic that arrives from our OEM factories"
Them fighting words!
???????? Not at all!!! We ****ed up and did not read what the OP said needed to be fixed. I just wanted to set the record straight that we take quality seriously!
If you mean am I fighting to protect our reputation then hell yes. We have worked hard and take service seriously. Normally would be checking the boards daily and would have been available for the OP from the start but the level of panic buying right now is crazy. We are all answering our .com customer emails night and day and still can't keep up. If you live in Houston we are hiring!!!!
Wow.....with a reply like that. I’m looking more into a 1x8 from them
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