View Full Version : New M4A1 Barrel patented by US Army Armaments Center
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/07/10/army-m4-heavy-barrel/
Hammer_Man
07-10-20, 14:01
Interesting. I wonder what led them to choose spiral fluting over straight fluting.
justin_247
07-10-20, 14:02
Somebody please tell me that this isn't just spiral fluting...
vicious_cb
07-10-20, 14:05
"New" as in lets take an idea from 1914 and claim its some leap in technology.
Also I can buy a finned barrel for my AR right now if I wanted.
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m11-16-finned-barrel-in-5-56mm-with-ext/
https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-biq04i/9s3jnna5/products/299/images/310/GM_M11_1_30_14_a__43922.1397653511.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
LOL!!, I'm dying, too funny :)
MountainRaven
07-10-20, 15:15
Interesting. I wonder what led them to choose spiral fluting over straight fluting.
Allegedly it means the barrel expands and contracts more evenly around the diameter, preventing the barrel from warping as it heats up.
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
https://terminallance.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Strip_Pride_2019.jpg (https://terminallance.com/2019/06/18/terminal-lance-pride-in-service/)
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
This made me “lol”
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
TFB has seemed pretty gay to me for awhile. The Reeves guy regularly running around shirtless or wearing women’s clothing, etc. Mostly male audience.
GAF
Straight Shooter
07-10-20, 16:16
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
A RIOT!
Ribbed..for THEIR pleasure. :sarcastic:;):D
ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 16:51
So, the already beefed up barrel is somehow not cutting it?
Or is the m4a1 now supposed to be a SAW, minus the belt?
ETA: I'd be very interested in the results of accuracy from that barrel after a couple magazines through it. Wet rotini comes to mind.
This made me “lol”
:sarcastic:
A RIOT!
Ribbed..for THEIR pleasure. :sarcastic:;):D
Yeah, I knew there was a joke in there somewhere!
Allegedly it means the barrel expands and contracts more evenly around the diameter, preventing the barrel from warping as it heats up.
I think the premise behind that is better heat dissipation with the "flutes" or "ribs" than a standard straight surface.
PracticalRifleman
07-10-20, 18:18
So, the already beefed up barrel is somehow not cutting it?
Or is the m4a1 now supposed to be a SAW, minus the belt?
ETA: I'd be very interested in the results of accuracy from that barrel after a couple magazines through it. Wet rotini comes to mind.
That was my thought.
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That was my thought.
While the SOCOM profile barrel existed before that, the fight at Wanat in 2008 set the wheels in motion to morph into the M4A1, or at least contributed to it significantly. Guys who were a hair away from being overran were flipping the happy switch and burning through beaucoup rounds which of course was not the intended purpose of the M4 (i.e. using it as a SAW). The heavier profile of the SOCOM theoretically can withstand full-auto fire better than the original thinner-under-the-handguards standard M4 barrel.
ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 19:24
I'm still extremely curious to see a head to head comparison of the rotini barrel vs the a1/socom barrel after a couple magazines have been put through them.
I cannot wrap my head around how spiral fluting adds or even retains rigidity.
PracticalRifleman
07-10-20, 19:26
I'm still extremely curious to see a head to head comparison of the rotini barrel vs the a1/socom barrel after a couple magazines have been put through them.
I cannot wrap my head around how spiral fluting adds or even retains rigidity.
It doesn’t. It adds cooling.
The theory is if it cools faster, it will be less likely to deflect. The flip side of that theory is less mass means it heats up faster. There are so many variables to test whether the design has merit.
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ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 19:38
It doesn’t. It adds cooling.
The theory is if it cools faster, it will be less likely to deflect. The flip side of that theory is less mass means it heats up faster. There are so many variables to test whether the design has merit.
It's the spiral pattern that makes no sense to me. Straight flutes, check. Diamond pattern or even golf ball dimples, sure. Hell, I could even be swayed by that hexagonal dimple pattern barrel years ago.
But spiral offers the least amount of rigidity to my (lack of) knowledge.
PracticalRifleman
07-10-20, 19:54
It's the spiral pattern that makes no sense to me. Straight flutes, check. Diamond pattern or even golf ball dimples, sure. Hell, I could even be swayed by that hexagonal dimple pattern barrel years ago.
But spiral offers the least amount of rigidity to my (lack of) knowledge.
It creates the most surface area.
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ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 20:22
It creates the most surface area.
Yes, but at the highest expense of rigidity compared to about any other fluting pattern as far as I can tell.
This all trends back to me wondering why? We already hav lightweight barrels that shed heat quickly and are easier to hump. Which matches the intent of the platform. We already have heavy barrels for wanna be SAW use, which makes everyone happy about another FOB being overrun and m4s is all they got.
I don't see how rotini does either well or both well enough to be considered a good compromise.
I want to see the testing that lead to rotini.
PracticalRifleman
07-10-20, 20:29
Yes, but at the highest expense of rigidity compared to about any other fluting pattern as far as I can tell.
This all trends back to me wondering why? We already hav lightweight barrels that shed heat quickly and are easier to hump. Which matches the intent of the platform. We already have heavy barrels for wanna be SAW use, which makes everyone happy about another FOB being overrun and m4s is all they got.
I don't see how rotini does either well or both well enough to be considered a good compromise.
I want to see the testing that lead to rotini.
Cooling, theoretically, requires more surface area. A fluted heavy barrel is more rigid than a LW barrel. They are trying to come up with the right formula, and you have to applaud that, though I’m not sure this is the right solution.
At the end of the day, a radiator is shaped as it is for a reason and isn’t a solid chunk of aluminum.
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MC_Oper8or
07-10-20, 20:36
LWRC ftw lol
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ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 21:03
Cooling, theoretically, requires more surface area. A fluted heavy barrel is more rigid than a LW barrel. They are trying to come up with the right formula, and you have to applaud that, though I’m not sure this is the right solution.
At the end of the day, a radiator is shaped as it is for a reason and isn’t a solid chunk of aluminum.
We're just talking around each other at this point. Have a nice day.
We're just talking around each other at this point. Have a nice day.
But he answered your questions.
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vicious_cb
07-10-20, 22:42
We're just talking around each other at this point. Have a nice day.
PracticalRifleman is 100% correct. I dont think you are understanding the physics behind what he is talking about. Lightweight barrels handle heat poorly and contrary to popular belief does not dump heat as efficiently as thicker barrels which goes back to the surface area issue.
Theres a reason why radiated barrels were found only on machine guns since WWI.
ColtSeavers
07-10-20, 23:08
I never once claimed that fluting did not assist in heat dissipation.
As a matter of fact, I named a number of other fluting profiles that would aid in heat dissipation while (seemingly, at face value at least) retaining rigidy.
I further addressed heat dissipation via referring to the original profile, which is great for heat dissipation, but sucks for heat absorbtion, especially when pretending to be a SAW, as well as the thicker a1/socom profile, which is great for heat absorbtion, better facilitating impromptu SAW duty.
Skinny gets hotter sooner, loses rigidity sooner and groups open up, thicker takes longer to heat up, therefore retains rigidity longer before getting to the point of groups opening up. Simple.
And, somehow I wasn't clear earlier, yes, flutes help a barrel lose weight and provide more surface area for heat dissipation.
But they should also help retain rigidity. I do not see how sprial fluting retains rigidity. Again, diamond pattern, golf ball dimples, hell even hexagons, I could understand, but not rotini. ETA: Not to mention plain old straight fluting.
That's why I want to see the accuracy testing of this barrel after a couple magazines, as I originally asked. That's why I want to know exactly what was wrong with the thicker a1/socom profile, as I originally asked.
That's why I want to see a head to head comparison of rotini vs a1/socom.
Eta: How many rounds can rotini sustain fire for before failure compared to the original skinny barrel as well as the a1/socom profiles?
The m16/m4 is not supposed to be a SAW. It only offers a limited capability to mimic such. The fact that the original barrels performed as well as they did being pressed to do what they did at wannat is actually a testament to how good the platform is. Replace the toasted parts and drive on.
If the barrel overheating is a serious issue (and I don't think it is) then the three things that need to be done are:
Buy a CHF barrel with an appropriate contour, like the N4.
Use a free floating rail to draw heat off the barrel and promote cooling.
Slow down the cyclic rate of fire using an A5 buffer, SureFire carrier or something similar.
Using a much heavier barrel is completely unnecessary.
If we design the rifles to be used as automatic rifles then we need to remove the SAW from the MTOE, at least in support units, to pay for it.
A SAW can buy three SR-15s or similar high end rifles.
This is what happens when you let the gays in the military.
I think its trans...
They may or may not have a point about spiral fluting but the fact that they retained the capability to mount an M203 tells you they are clueless.
It’s weird how the folks designing this stuff are probably more knowledgeable on the matter than anyone commenting in this thread.
Perplexing
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ColtSeavers
07-12-20, 16:32
It’s weird how the folks designing this stuff are probably more knowledgeable on the matter than anyone commenting in this thread.
Perplexing
LMFAO!
Yeah, because .mil/.gov has never created more problems while testing showed they solved one...
But spiral offers the least amount of rigidity to my (lack of) knowledge.
You already stated you have no knowledge on the given subject matter so your input qualifies as meaningless.
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ColtSeavers
07-12-20, 18:27
You already stated you have no knowledge on the given subject matter so your input qualifies as meaningless.
Newsflash, no one here knows, until the barrel specs and testing criteria are known....
vicious_cb
07-12-20, 18:42
Newsflash, no one here knows, until the barrel specs and testing criteria are known....
Why dont you test it for yourself and post the results? I linked a similar radiated barrel from GM.
ColtSeavers
07-12-20, 18:50
Why dont you test it for yourself and post the results? I linked a similar radiated barrel from GM.
Send me the barrel, ammo, and same testing criteria, and I gladly will.
Hell, I still have 2 barrels I don't use but aren't dead, I'll even include testing against them as well.
vicious_cb
07-12-20, 18:57
Send me the barrel, ammo, and same testing criteria, and I gladly will.
Hell, I still have 2 barrels I don't use but aren't dead, I'll even include testing against them as well.
Why should anyone provide you with materials? If anything most people see this is a joke. No one else is screaming about wanting to see the testing except yourself.
You WANT people to explain to you what the fins do, you WANT people to give you materials for testing. I think I found why people are acting very testy to you.
ColtSeavers
07-12-20, 19:00
Why should anyone provide you with materials? If anything most people see this is a joke. No one else is screaming about wanting to see the testing except yourself.
You WANT people to explain to you what the fins do, you WANT people to give you materials for testing. I think I found the problem here.
Clearly, you haven't read the thread...
ColtSeavers
07-12-20, 19:08
Here's a crash course for people that really need it...
https://youtu.be/yF4g2CWtjOo
You guys need to break out of lock down
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