View Full Version : Aiming night vision and LPVO
I apologize in advance if this is the wrong place to post this.
So as a pure hypothetical, I’m building a do-all 14.5 carbine. One of the qualities is that it is capable to use at night. However, I plan on sticking an lpvo on top for the main optic, which is gonna be hard to passively aim through. Although I can just use a peq or DBAL, I’m concerned about situations where the other side has night vision too (as the tech for even crappy ones becomes more and more commonly owned). So is there a way I can passively aim so I can reduce possible detection with an LPVO? Is a piggyback RMR on the LPVO a good idea for this purpose? Or should I just scrap that and just practice good light/laser discipline with the DBAL/PEQ like I would with a white light?
This is beyond my experience, but there was some good discussion on the topic earlier this year in this stickied thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?222367-The-One-Gun-Solution-(GP-Carbine)-Reality
vicious_cb
07-11-20, 00:48
I apologize in advance if this is the wrong place to post this.
So as a pure hypothetical, I’m building a do-all 14.5 carbine. One of the qualities is that it is capable to use at night. However, I plan on sticking an lpvo on top for the main optic, which is gonna be hard to passively aim through. Although I can just use a peq or DBAL, I’m concerned about situations where the other side has night vision too (as the tech for even crappy ones becomes more and more commonly owned). So is there a way I can passively aim so I can reduce possible detection with an LPVO? Is a piggyback RMR on the LPVO a good idea for this purpose? Or should I just scrap that and just practice good light/laser discipline with the DBAL/PEQ like I would with a white light?
You wont get enough light transmission with an LPVO to use with night vision. Your best bet is to mount a NV capable red dot on top of the LPVO.
What are you running for a NVG? I cant imagine how first you can get behind a LPVO and still maintain any sort of shoulder/cheek weld. Additionally not crashing into the LPVO while it would be mounted somewhere on the optic.
Which LPVO with NV settings are you using?
No it’s not going to work.
Piggy back an RDS somewhere if possible.
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PracticalRifleman
07-11-20, 06:54
Just mount an IR laser. Done and done.
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ExplorinInTheWoods
07-11-20, 07:18
So it is possible but I think it’s going to depend on your nods and LPVO. I got a 1-8 VCOG for work and with 31’s you can aim through it. I got a buddy that bought the same optic like 6 months ago and he’s been running it and when he said it’s doable I bought one. It’s not as easy as doing it with an Eotech. You need to roll the rifle into your nod. But if you’re using a PVS 14 I have no idea, I’ve ran a PVS 14 and an aimpoint. If you run the PVS over your non dominant eye you can passively aim that way. I will say having a higher mount will make it easier.
What are you running for a NVG? I cant imagine how first you can get behind a LPVO and still maintain any sort of shoulder/cheek weld. Additionally not crashing into the LPVO while it would be mounted somewhere on the optic.
Which LPVO with NV settings are you using?
Razor 1-6. I don’t think it’ll be usable with binos, which is why I’m looking for lookarounds to be able to passively aim, probably options to mount a red dot somewhere high.
Razor 1-6. I don’t think it’ll be usable with binos, which is why I’m looking for lookarounds to be able to passively aim, probably options to mount a red dot somewhere high.
I have a Razor. It’s not doable. I played with a RMR at 12 o’clock for a bit in a reptilia for my geissele Mount. It works but is a little wonky with the 1.93 height. 1.5 or 1.7 would work a little better. Larue has their 130 half ring mount as well.
Doing it again I’d prefer a aimpoint t1/t2 over the RMR.
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Just mount an IR laser. Done and done.
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This, simply.
I have a PVS 14 WP and it does not work well with my NF NX8. Red fot works much better.
However I am tempted to put a rds on top of my G mount.
Furbyballer
07-11-20, 11:16
Grab a badger c1 with offset red dot or a reptila offset ring that goes with geissele mounts. Passive aiming with nods through a LPVO is nearly impossible. An arisaka offset mount is also a great option if you already have a LPVO mount you like. Both the arisaka, badger, and reptila mounts will clear all IR lasers, including the mawl.
This, simply.
Yea, but no because passive adds a lot to the table
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Grab a badger c1 with offset red dot or a reptila offset ring that goes with geissele mounts. Passive aiming with nods through a LPVO is nearly impossible. An arisaka offset mount is also a great option if you already have a LPVO mount you like. Both the arisaka, badger, and reptila mounts will clear all IR lasers, including the mawl.
Are you saying an offset dot will work under nods? Monocular (on non-dominant eye) or dual tube?
Based on responses in my “Do All Carbine“ thread linked above, it seemed like it wouldn’t.
Furbyballer
07-11-20, 12:46
Are you saying an offset dot will work under nods? Monocular (on non-dominant eye) or dual tube?
Based on responses in my “Do All Carbine“ thread linked above, it seemed like it wouldn’t.
**** yea an offset red dot sight will work under all nods. Who ever told you they wouldn't has never had any time under nods. RMR, DPP, T series and aimpoint clones, acro, holosun all of them work under nods with their NV settings
**** yea an offset red dot sight will work under all nods. Who ever told you they wouldn't has never had any time under nods. RMR, DPP, T series and aimpoint clones, acro, holosun all of them work under nods with their NV settings
Do you use offset from the top 1913 rail on the receiver, or offset but attached to the primary optic in some way?
**** yea an offset red dot sight will work under all nods. Who ever told you they wouldn't has never had any time under nods. RMR, DPP, T series and aimpoint clones, acro, holosun all of them work under nods with their NV settings
Well I won’t say names but in that thread linked on page one, there were plenty of guys that I know have plenty of time behind nods that said it wouldn’t work well. It was the alignment behind the offset RD and not the NV capability of the RD that seemed to be the issue.
If that’s not the case and maybe I misunderstood what they were saying, then I’m extremely happy to hear that!
Do you use offset from the top 1913 rail on the receiver, or offset but attached to the primary optic in some way?
You can use whichever so long as the RDS is high enough up that you can actually see through it properly when you rotate the gun. Even better if it’s on the same centerline as your primary optic like with the Badger Mounts.
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Use a laser. Only turn the laser on momentarily when shooting. Laser discipline.
I get what you want, and it’s not a bad idea, but either way if you’re serious about using it at night a laser is mandatory.
Even an eotech is not that easy to use with nods. Getting a site picture is easy enough, but if there is not enough ambient light you won’t be able to see the target and will need an IR illuminator. Again with the Illuminator you’ll need to employee laser discipline. So either way you need a peq15 or a mawl.
If you’re dead serious about a super sneaky gun at night you should set up a dedicated night-fighter gun with an eotech and laser/illuminator.
Use a laser. Only turn the laser on momentarily when shooting. Laser discipline.
I get what you want, and it’s not a bad idea, but either way if you’re serious about using it at night a laser is mandatory.
Even an eotech is not that easy to use with nods. Getting a site picture is easy enough, but if there is not enough ambient light you won’t be able to see the target and will need an IR illuminator. Again with the Illuminator you’ll need to employee laser discipline. So either way you need a peq15 or a mawl.
If you’re dead serious about a super sneaky gun at night you should set up a dedicated night-fighter gun with an eotech and laser/illuminator.
They make Surefire Vampires for a reason
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They make Surefire Vampires for a reason
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He could certainly do that.
I have them on a few guns. But they are anything but stealth. Everything explodes in IR light with one. With the illuminator it keeps the beam focused to a much smaller area. I also find the illuminator does not reflect back at you as much either. He wants to be super stealthy I’m giving my two cents on achieving that.
Use a laser. Only turn the laser on momentarily when shooting. Laser discipline.
I get what you want, and it’s not a bad idea, but either way if you’re serious about using it at night a laser is mandatory.
Even an eotech is not that easy to use with nods. Getting a site picture is easy enough, but if there is not enough ambient light you won’t be able to see the target and will need an IR illuminator. Again with the Illuminator you’ll need to employee laser discipline. So either way you need a peq15 or a mawl.
If you’re dead serious about a super sneaky gun at night you should set up a dedicated night-fighter gun with an eotech and laser/illuminator.
Got it. I’ll probably set a more night/cqb oriented rifle in the future right now I’m focusing on making my one rifle a good all around rifle.
maybe i was doing it wrong, but over the years i've tried all sorts of stuff for aiming carbines with nv. at one time i had a fancy mount behind an aimpoint that let me QD my 14s and move them from head to gun quickly. i didn't care for it at all, and removed it from the gun when i went to binos on my hat. i still have some less fancy ones that i have for loaner guns, but i hate them.
i despise even more trying to align nods on my head to a red dot on NV settings on a rifle. it feels kludgy just plinking on a single target slow fire. trying to run a uspsa style drill that way is full on simian fornicating pigskin mode.
i absolutely love the IR laser.
in context of civilians doing 2A stuff in a non-permissive environment, i'd offer that the laser on LOW POWER is still pretty stealthy afaik, especially if you are only using it momentarily to shoot. on my super quiet 9mm, i just use the laser. on my GP carbine with LPVO, i think the peq is hard to beat, but for your "passive" aiming, i'd say the right way to do it is a clip on pvs22 or CNVD. That way you've got up to 4x mag with your LPVO, so you're range is extended, which i think is probably what you'd want if you're that concerned about your laser giving away your location, and you're not emitting anything but lead and copper.
Mrgunsngear
07-12-20, 13:03
The practicality of what you’re trying to do really depends on engagement distances. For CQB it’s moot as a near peer type threat will clearly see you and your NODS will glow at 50-100m and in when viewed through their NODS. On a large battlefield type scenario then sure; the concern is valid though. Just my $0.02.
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