Need Help on Lee Deluxe Rifle Die

[lanceriley]

I've used the Lee Delux Pistol Die set but im curious about rifle relaoding

can anybody correct me if im wrong...

Lee Deluxe rifle die set includes

1.) Collet Neck sizer and full resizer die with depreimer all in one die?

2.) Bullet Seater

3.) Factory Crimp Die

so where is the case flare die / rifle charging die? do I have to buy this separately? unlike the pistol die that comes in 4?

what else do I need ?

I already have a turret press rigged for pistol dies. been churning thousands of rounds already so Im not new to reloading... just am not familiar with rifle.

can I use the turret press to produce volume rounds for plinking?

I know I can use the turret as a single stage for accurate rounds.

Yes I shoot both. sometimes for accuracy shots and sometimes for just plain fun.

I'll be shooting it in a 14.5 barreled m4. Yep it's got full auto. legally. anthing I should be worried about? considering it's a reload?

[jmart]

First off, you'll need the Rifle Charging Die if you are charging on the press.

If I'm not mistaken, there are two sets of die sets that Lee sells, and I'm pretty sure the Deluxe includes a: (1) neck sizer colet die, (2) a conventional resizing die, and (3) a bullet seating die. It does not come with a crimping die, but the seater usually incorporates a taper crimper.

The alternative setup would be (and this is in case I'm mixing up the die set names): (1) A conventional resizer, (2) a seater, and (3) a FCD. I'm pretty sure this is called the Pacesetter Die Set.

I don't believe they assemble/market a set that includes all four dies you mentioned, and note that the conventional resizer and neck sizer collet die are two separate dies. They aren't incorporated into one.

I would think Lee's website explains their die sets. Suggest you check it out. www.leeprecision.com IIRC.

You can use your turret press for assembling loads. In that case you'd need the Rifle Charging Die and the disk measure (usually you'll need the double disk kit for .223 and up). The Univ Charging Die and the Perfect Powder Measure won't work on the TP.

Unless you are seating a bunch of FB bullets, you won't need a flaring die. 55 FMJ-BT and any other BT insert easily into the case mouth.

[lanceriley]

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1227804168.1868=/html/catalog/dies-dlxrifle.html

The patented, world record setting Collet Neck Sizing Die is teamed up with the patented, Lee Full Length Sizing Die!

so does this mean that this is 2 dies already? so the 3rd die is the seater die?

so im going to need to buy a rifle chargin die and a factory crimp die aside from the deluxe set?

when you say neck sizer, this one die will also deprime right?

so when do you use the full sizer?

I do have a single disk kit but I use a micrometer in place of the disk. will this be enough to load 20ish grains?

do you need to lube the cases? I have a friend who's a little ahead of me. he can't resize without lubing. but if you look at lee precision products. they'll say no need to lube. he has a lee too. but am not sure which one. probably a pace setter.

[lanceriley]

ok... i think i may be going the wrong way with this..

somebody told me that the 1.) neck sizer is important since case expands after being shot. 2.) I may need the full length sizer so that it chambers properly right? 3.) rifle charging die 4.) bullet seater and 5.) factory crimp die

so how do I fit all of this in a turret press? I only got 4 holes.

when do I trim case length? is it the 1st step? or after neck sizing? or is it after full length sizing?

rifle loading sounds so complicated as compared to pistol... sorry for the newbie questions. im just drawing a blank here.

[jmart]

Get the Pacesetter set -- FL resizer, seater and FCD. You do not need a Neck Sizing die if reloading for an AR. Those are more appropriate for bolt action guns, but semi-autos require FL resizing to reliably feed and extract. The FL resizer takes care of all sizing requirements, it squeezes the body down, bumps the shoulder and squeezes the neck to the proper dimension.

Since your experience so far is w/pistol reloading, I'm going to assume you didn't bother with trimming, or you found out trimming was necessary only after several reloads. You probably won't find that to be the case when reloading bottlenecked rifle cartridges, they tend to stretch more during the FL resizing operation. What this means is you'll need to trim cases more often, and this presents a challenge if trying to go through all necessary steps in four sequential steps. Also, you'll need to lube your cases for the resizing operation, and at some point you need to remove this lube. Also a challenge.

You mention you have four holes to manage all of your steps. This implies you want to go from start-to-finish in four operations. I'll submit you'd be better off dividing these into two separate groups of operations, the first being case prep and the second being actual loading of the cases.

Here's how I did it when I started out with a Lee TP, before migrating to a Dillon 550.

Case Prep --- batch process cases

(1) Get a separate toolhead and mount your resizer in this.

(2) Disable your auto-advance. You want the press to operate like a SS at this point.

(3) Lube your cases with whatever lube and technique you choose (spray, roll them on a pad, shake them in a ziploc, whatever)

(4) Resize cases

(5) Remove lube (tumble, wipe off, whatever. If you tumble them, make sure the flash holes aren't plugged with any media)

(6) Trim cases

(7) Optional: prime cases using hand held priming tool. If you forgo this step now, then you'll have to prime them on the press during the loading sequence.

Loading Sequence

(1) Re-install auto-advance mechanism

(2) Configure 2nd toolhead with either decapping die in station 1 (only if you are going to prime on the press) or a Universal Flaring Die (optional); otherwise leave it empty. If you choose to install the flaring die, adjust it to just barely kiss the case mouth. You'll flare less than you do for your pistol brass. If priming on the press, this is where you'll prime, on the down stroke.

(3) Station 2 -- Rifle Charging Die, w/disk measure. Consider adding Lee's Hopper Riser, especially if you elect to prime on the press or if you load extruded powders. Micrometer bar will max out sround 23-24 grians IIRC, so it barely works with ball powders. For extruded powders, it's not big enough and you'll have to use the Dbl Disk Kit.

(4) Station 3 -- Seater. Adjust so no crimping occurs. If you used the flaring die in Station #1, you can adjust so it squeezes the flare down a touch, but don't adjust so much that you apply a crimp. At this staion your goal is to just seat the bullet to the correct seating depth.

(5) Station 4 -- FCD

This worked best for me.

[lanceriley]

i've never really trimmed a case in my life! I usually load until there is a crack then I dispose.


ok... so I need the pacesetter die + a rifle charging die. Yes I'll shoot this in an AR only

pace setter has 3 dies.
1.) full length resizer which is also a neck and shoulder resizer
2.) seater die
3.) FCD

so that's a total of 3 + 1 rifle charging die. making it a total of 4

So far ive assisted my friend in the case prep. I do have a single stage press. I can use the FL resizer here which will also act as a deprimer right so far?

as far as case prep I get it. lube, resize and decap primer, remove lube, trim case. right so far?

Now for the loading sequence it gets fuzzy again.

1st hole is the deprimer/resizer... now why do I have to install this? when I've already resized and deprimed? Can I just leave this spot empty? I can prime in this spot on the downstroke. won't use flaring if it's not necessary

2nd hole. Rifle Charging Die. I may have to use a funnel if I need to load more than 24gr. since I have a micrometer. No double disc over here. I'll be using Vihtavouri powder. maybe VV133 or VV140. Im not really sure if this is extruded or ball. do you know? Yes I have a riser already.

3rd hole. So i can just seat right here. this part I can get

4th hole. FCD I get this part.

so can you confirm if i got everything right?
thanks for helping me out.

[jmart]

i've never really trimmed a case in my life! I usually load until there is a crack then I dispose.


ok... so I need the pacesetter die + a rifle charging die. Yes I'll shoot this in an AR only

pace setter has 3 dies.
1.) full length resizer which is also a neck and shoulder resizer
2.) seater die
3.) FCD

so that's a total of 3 + 1 rifle charging die. making it a total of 4

Correct.


So far ive assisted my friend in the case prep. I do have a single stage press. I can use the FL resizer here which will also act as a deprimer right so far?

Correct. Having a SS press comes in very handy when batch processing. In this case, don't bother with a 2nd toolhead for your TP, just set it up for the loading sequence steps.


as far as case prep I get it. lube, resize and decap primer, remove lube, trim case. right so far?

Correct.


Now for the loading sequence it gets fuzzy again.

1st hole is the deprimer/resizer... now why do I have to install this? when I've already resized and deprimed? Can I just leave this spot empty? I can prime in this spot on the downstroke. won't use flaring if it's not necessary

I suggest this (a Universal Decapping Die, not a resizer) if you are going to prime on the press, and if you tumbled your cases after resizing in order to remove the lube. You might have some media stuck in the flash holes, and you want to remove it before seating a primer. The Deacpping die should simply punch any stuck media out w/o touching any other part of the case, so this doesn't change anything after the resizing operation.

If you elected to use a hand priming tool earlier, then you wouldn't need the Decapping Die, you could leave this empty, but given you've got an empty station, I would suggest adding the Universal Flaring Die to add just the tiniest flare to the case mouth. Not a necessity mind you, but it does simplify bullet seating.


2nd hole. Rifle Charging Die. I may have to use a funnel if I need to load more than 24gr. since I have a micrometer. No double disc over here. I'll be using Vihtavouri powder. maybe VV133 or VV140. Im not really sure if this is extruded or ball. do you know? Yes I have a riser already.

VV is short grained extruded.

The riser helps because it adds height to the hopper so you get greater velocity during the powder drop. Larger grained extruded can bridge at the case mouth -- the added velocity helps it clear the mouth and go all the way into the case. The riser is also a necessity for hand clearance if you sue Lee's Priming Setup on the TP.

Make sure you pause at the top of the stroke when charging your cases, give the powder a chance to get into the case. When it bridges, you'll know it. Upon lowering the ram, you'll dump powder all over the press and table. It's an annoyance.

Get the Double Disk Kit. You'll need it. No need for an added funnel.


3rd hole. So i can just seat right here. this part I can get

4th hole. FCD I get this part.

so can you confirm if i got everything right?

You got it.



thanks for helping me out.

You're quite welcome. Good luck.

[lanceriley]

ok.. basically I got it... just to iron out some stuffs....

I do have a handpriming tool.

so I can use the Single Stage press
1.) Lube
2.) Resizer/Decap
3.) Can I prime using the handpriming tool in this stage
4.) Then remove lube with tumbler?

or will the lube end up in the primer hole?

If I use the tumbler to remove the lube. will it affect my tumbling to keep shells shiny ?

Id love to buy the Flare die or the decapping tool. but I live in the Philippines. buying these stuffs really take a lot of effort... yeah I know too much govt restrictions.

I think i'll try to get the double disc.

thanks again

[jmart]

Remove lube first, then make sure flash holes are clear, then prime.

[lanceriley]

ok remove lube and make sure flash hole is clean before priming.

how do you know if the flash hole is still good to go after a few reloadings? or does it matter?

[jmart]

The flash hole is GTG all the time, it doesn't change dimensionally after several loadings.

What does change is the primer pocket. Over time after several firings, and especially if you load near max, the pocket will increase in size and primers will seat too easily. I don't know how to advise you other than to segregate your brass and keep tabs on how many loads through a case. Also, you'll find that some brands of brass are tougher in the casehead area and can take more reloads (Lake City) than others which have softer pockets and are good for maybe just a single reload (cheapo Federal). Since you live overseas, I have no idea what you have access to.

When you start seating primers and you feel minimial resistance, it's time to be wary. Don't tempt fate and try to string another reload out of them, just dump that lot of brass. I realize that may be a vague description, i.e., "minimal resistance", but over time you'll develop a feel for what constitutes "too little". You'll just have to learn along the way.

One other thing I never mentioned earlier and you never asked about, you'll probably come across brass that has crimped primer pockets. For excample, you'll shoot some commercial XM-193 (LC, Privi) and then you'll want to reload them. Before you reload these, you'll need to remove the crimp (otherwise you'll crush new primers when you try to seat them). This is a one-time operation. LC brass is a good example, their pockets are crimped and you can tell this by the depressed ring right around the pocket's perimiter. You have two options of removing this crimp:

(a) reaming it out. This involves cutting it out. Hornady makes a economically priced tool that you can use either by hand or chuck it in a drill/cordless screwdriver. If you use it by hand, get the knurled reamer handle along with the reamer.

(b) swaging it out. This involves displacing metal, or simply moving it out of the way. The best tool for this seems to be Dillon's primer pocket swager. It's pricey, but everyone that has one talks highly of them. The cheaper alternative is RCBS's swager that is press mounted, but end user reports are less flattering. It's a bit more tempermental and supposedly is sensitive to primer pocket depth -- mis-adjust it and you bend the rod and have to order another.

My advice since you are overseas, if you can spring $90 for the Dillon unit, get that. Otherwise pick up a couple of the Hornady reamers at $5-6 per reamer, and get a handle if you elect to use this by hand.

[lanceriley]

ok so no need to check flash holes.

most of our ammo is military m193. say 90% of the time. it's probably the type that fell off the truck.

yes i've heard of the crimp.

er... 90$ unit for removing the crimp??? i think that's tooo pricey for me. i'll probably get the 5-6$ reamers. so far I think that's what my friend is buying. most of our reloading kits are LEE and dillong. Hornady and rcbs are common but mostly can be bought through black market connections.

as for "easily" priming... is it similar with pistol primer? i've loaded like 20k rounds of pistol. I've never segregated or encountered loose primer pockets. they always break first. i'll just try it out when I got all the tools

All of our Ar15s are Military m16 recievers. yes that means we have full auto. yes it is legal to own here. i've heard some primers popping off during full auto. any idea? or is it the reason why the primers are crimped by the military? because of full auto fire?

[ar-junkie]

ok so no need to check flash holes.

most of our ammo is military m193. say 90% of the time. it's probably the type that fell off the truck.

yes i've heard of the crimp.

er... 90$ unit for removing the crimp??? i think that's tooo pricey for me. i'll probably get the 5-6$ reamers. so far I think that's what my friend is buying. most of our reloading kits are LEE and dillong. Hornady and rcbs are common but mostly can be bought through black market connections.

as for "easily" priming... is it similar with pistol primer? i've loaded like 20k rounds of pistol. I've never segregated or encountered loose primer pockets. they always break first. i'll just try it out when I got all the tools

All of our Ar15s are Military m16 recievers. yes that means we have full auto. yes it is legal to own here. i've heard some primers popping off during full auto. any idea? or is it the reason why the primers are crimped by the military? because of full auto fire?


Its important to make sure your flash hole isn't plugged. Normally reloaders find tumbling media in there, but if you don't tumble you still need to make sure it is open. I would really suggest that you get a swager and not a reamer. You can easily over-ream a shell and cause the primer to lose gas and/or pop out. I would suggest http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=447022 this. It is a cheaper reamer it just mounts to your press and is decent priced compaired to the 90 for the blue one.