View Full Version : The Aimpoint Micro - The Best Red Dot In The World
Eurodriver
07-19-20, 10:34
In 2007 Aimpoint released the best red dot ever made, (https://www.aimpoint.com/news/aimpoint-launches-its-new-micro-series-of-sights-1/) the Aimpoint Micro series (T1/H1/S1).
Thirteen years later and still nothing has come close to outdoing it. You basically have five options if you want an optic:
Eotech
Preemption: I know a yellow named SME brodude is gonna be along shortly to piss and moan about how awesome Eotechs are but he's wrong. Thermal Drift issues not withstanding, they are bigger, heavier, and the reticle is more complicated. Check this out EoTechies - With an Aimpoint you bring the rifle up and wherever the "red" is, is where the bullet is going (<150 yards). This makes target acquisition extremely fast. You don't need a big ass circle telling your eye where the tiny aiming dot is - this is a crutch. I agree that an Eotech is more precise for longer distance shooting, but why on earth would you run a CQB optic if your goal is to shoot precisely at >150 yards?
Magnified Optics
I was an Acog fanboy forever (#USMC) and more recently became a NF NX8 1-8 fan. These optics are great, but they fill different roles than a red dot. Barring insane amounts of training, and all other variables remaining equal, you will be faster at <50y shooting with the Aimpoint than you will be with an ACOG. The NX8 is awesome for a 16" gun and is damn near a game changer, but it's heavy. An NX8 with a mount weighs 5x more than a T1 with a mount. Magnification rocks when you aren't shooting bright steel targets spray painted white, but the simplicity of the Micro series cannot be beat for typical engagements.
Trash
People buy Holosun/Sig/Etc because they are cheap. Period. No one in the history of the world who began an optic search with the goal of getting something of quality has said "You know what? I'm gonna pass on the T2 and M5. I'm actually gonna buy the HS403R because it's better." I don't understand these people. I also don't understand people who wait in line for two hours to get a free Entree at Applebee's on Veteran's Day. You're saving $8.99, guys.
30mm Aimpoints (Pro/Comp M2/M4/etc)
These are great. They're just needlessly larger and heavier than the Micros, so why bother? Disclaimer: I own two.
Aimpoint Micro (T1/T2/H1/H2/etc)
The Best - The End.
I've used the Aimpoint micro on AR15s, Shotguns, Pistols, Pistol Caliber Carbines, .22s, and submachine guns. Aside from a precision rifle rig, I can't imagine any type of firearm it would not be at home on.
Final thought: I bought an Aimpoint H1 from GTF425 a few months ago. He was one day delayed in shipping it out to me compared to his estimated shipping date. To make up for this "delay", he gave me (at no cost) a "lifetime supply of batteries" for my H1. This consisted of one CR2032 in the optic, and one spare. Try doing that with an Eotech. :cool:
*Does anyone know how to get an attached photo to embed?
The only reason I like EOTechs is that I can instantly alternate between IR and vis settings for passive aiming under NODs. Outside of that incredibly niche function, it does nothing that an Aimpoint doesn't do except weigh more and have 1/100th of the battery life.
It's hard to go wrong with a Micro zeroed at 200y on an AR.
hotrodder636
07-19-20, 12:29
I pretty much agree with everything stated based on my experience.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-19-20, 13:28
My T1 is a decade old. I don't recall how much I spent on it, but I'm guessing it works out to like $50/year. No scratch that, more like $51/year including the replacement batteries. It still works though so that cost of ownership will keep going down.
There was a time I thought the PA and Holosun red dots made sense on non defensive use guns, but that was foolish thinking on my part. The COVID panic allowed me to offload them at little to no loss and were replaced by Aimpoints on those same non defensive use guns.
You know what a proper flex is? My 11 year old with her M&P 15-22 and a T1 dunking on the boomers at the range with their Sig Romeos. Nothing like having some Wilfred Brimley looking dude tell you it's foolish to spend that much on a red dot for a kid's rifle. Lmao go be poor somewhere else.
Eurodriver
07-19-20, 13:36
You know what a proper flex is? My 11 year old with her M&P 15-22 and a T1 dunking on the boomers at the range with their Sig Romeos. Nothing like having some Wilfred Brimley looking dude tell you it's foolish to spend that much on a red dot for a kid's rifle. Lmao go be poor somewhere else.
Why aren’t we best friends?
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-19-20, 13:41
Why aren’t we best friends?
I think we just became best friends.
I still think they’re overrated but agree that the T2 may be the best RDS available aside from maybe the CompM5. The T1 however, is garbage when magnified and apparently it’s parralax issues are not insignificant compared to other designs.
I’m also not convinced that others don’t come close. Hate on Holosuns all you want, but some people have put them through a lot of shit and they seem to do pretty well. Their features (switchable reticle alone) are definitely giving Aimpoint a run though. I think it’ll be a long time before they’re proven to compete with Aimpoint’s durability/reliability, but so far it doesn’t seem impossible.
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Eotech has fit my needs well in the past due to large window and small dot. Add a 3x and its like a LPVO for 20yo eyes, and is awesome in CQB. Its a fast optic.
I use a T2 on my main squeeze because I can leave it on forever and its light and tiny. Also have Eotech, CompM4, Steiner, Zeiss, Sig. REASONS. Still thinking about grabbing another ACOG. But then I’ll need another RMR.
The only optic that I feel comes close is the Trijicon MRO.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-19-20, 14:24
I still think they’re overrated but agree that the T2 may be the best RDS available aside from maybe the CompM5. The T1 however, is garbage when magnified and apparently it’s parralax issues are not insignificant compared to other designs.
I’m also not convinced that others don’t come close. Hate on Holosuns all you want, but some people have put them through a lot of shit and they seem to do pretty well. Their features (switchable reticle alone) are definitely giving Aimpoint a run though. I think it’ll be a long time before they’re proven to compete with Aimpoint’s durability/reliability, but so far it doesn’t seem impossible.
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See, I've heard that about the T1, but I run a magnifier behind mine from time to time and all I have is a crisp dot. I don't have any vision problems though, and maybe it's something that only manifests itself with people who do but is only recognizable under magnification.
As far as multiple reticles, that isn't really important to me, I don't like the Eotech reticle, and I'm not interested in shake awake, which is only necessary when you want to claim 50,000 hrs of battery life but can't do it with constant on. More than one time I'd pick up the gun with the Holosun and have no dot, and the shake awake didn't work. Had to hit the top buttons to power it on.
More than one time I'd pick up the gun with the Holosun and have no dot, and the shake awake didn't work. Had to hit the top buttons to power it on.
I’ve had that problem twice with my Romeo 4t. In like two months that I’ve owned it. Both times in the rain. I put it on my PCC now. I like it otherwise, but obviously thats a dealbreaker for a serious gun.
PracticalRifleman
07-19-20, 14:31
Where does the MRO fit in the scheme? Why?
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PracticalRifleman
07-19-20, 15:04
Why bother on 30mm Aimpoints? Because they can be had sub-$250 on the secondary market.
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Where does the MRO fit in the scheme? Why?
IMO the MRO is a distance 4th or 5th. Parallax being a big issue. I wanted to like mine, I really thought it would give the Aimpoint Micro a run for it's money, but it doesn't for me.
And while Aimpoint Micros are great, for many Pros / ACOs / CompM2s are more affordable and proven durable (even more so on the used market). I have an 8+ year old Pro that just won't quit - been on AR15s, SCAR 16 & 17s, you name it. Well worth the $350 it costs me on sale from PSA back in 2012. Used with NVDs, magnifiers, etc. I change the battery yearly just because and it's never had a problem.
Eurodriver
07-19-20, 15:22
Why bother on 30mm Aimpoints? Because they can be had sub-$250 on the secondary market.
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Fosho. I own two of those. (A Pro and an M2)
But this thread is about the best red dot ever.
Try putting a 30mm Aimpoint on a handgun or a PS90.
PracticalRifleman
07-19-20, 15:24
IMO the MRO is a distance 4th or 5th. Parallax being a big issue. I wanted to like mine, I really thought it would give the Aimpoint Micro a run for it's money, but it doesn't for me.
And while Aimpoint Micros are great, for many Pros / ACOs / CompM2s are more affordable and proven durable (even more so on the used market). I have an 8+ year old Pro that just won't quit - been on AR15s, SCAR 16 & 17s, you name it. Well worth the $350 it costs me on sale from PSA back in 2012. Used with NVDs, magnifiers, etc. I change the battery yearly just because and it's never had a problem.
I have three M68s and an M3 myself. I gave less in those four than my Micro. I do prefer the Micro and believe it to be the best dot on the market, but I can’t afford to keep half a dozen of them.
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titsonritz
07-19-20, 16:04
My T1 is a decade old. I don't recall how much I spent on it, but I'm guessing it works out to like $50/year. No scratch that, more like $51/year including the replacement batteries. It still works though so that cost of ownership will keep going down.
There was a time I thought the PA and Holosun red dots made sense on non defensive use guns, but that was foolish thinking on my part. The COVID panic allowed me to offload them at little to no loss and were replaced by Aimpoints on those same non defensive use guns.
You know what a proper flex is? My 11 year old with her M&P 15-22 and a T1 dunking on the boomers at the range with their Sig Romeos. Nothing like having some Wilfred Brimley looking dude tell you it's foolish to spend that much on a red dot for a kid's rifle. Lmao go be poor somewhere else.
It cracks me up, these judgmental buffoons and their preoccupation with how other people spend their money. Yeah, I'm sure your POS Tasco is just as good as my Kahles and I'm an idiot for spending that much on a scope.
See, I've heard that about the T1, but I run a magnifier behind mine from time to time and all I have is a crisp dot. I don't have any vision problems though, and maybe it's something that only manifests itself with people who do but is only recognizable under magnification.
As far as multiple reticles, that isn't really important to me, I don't like the Eotech reticle, and I'm not interested in shake awake, which is only necessary when you want to claim 50,000 hrs of battery life but can't do it with constant on. More than one time I'd pick up the gun with the Holosun and have no dot, and the shake awake didn't work. Had to hit the top buttons to power it on.
Maybe it only affected certain specific sights. I still had very good vision when I ditched my T1, it went from normal dot to a line as soon as I put my G33 behind it. I would’ve taken a picture but they had just announced the T2 and cleaning it up under magnification was one of the main selling points so I assumed it was extremely common.
On the cheap red dots, that’ll definitely be personal preference but I love that reticle and for an offset RDS and/or shotgun optic, it works really well. I literally replaced an RMR with it. I have no expectation that Holosun or any of the others will surpass Aimpoint as being the best, but it’s features and price point lend me to fully expect that Aimpoint and all others are either going to have to innovate like hell or drop their MSRP. I’m only trusting my Holosun as an offset RDS paired with a Razor at the moment, but every time I look for it, that super clear donut of death is present.
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MC_Oper8or
07-19-20, 18:37
I’m very curious as to where the ta44 sits.
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fedupflyer
07-19-20, 21:06
https://youtu.be/5AfUcxM_f2M
The_War_Wagon
07-19-20, 21:22
I don't have 4 AR's and a Bren 805 wearing T-1's for nothing. :cool:
There’s probably aftermarket options for others but I definitely like the ability to use the T2 occluded for low light use with the included lens covers.
It's hard to believe that the T2 was introduced 6 years ago, the PRO 9 and the T1 over 10.
The MRO should have been a T1 killer, and I am happy with mine, but the micro is still king.
Andy
Don't Tread On Me
07-20-20, 09:43
I may be an outlier, but I actually kind of prefer the 30mm tube for a general purpose carbine. That being said, I will admit that when putting something together where the main focus is weight reduction, an Aimpoint micro sits atop.
hotrodder636
07-20-20, 09:46
Good lord has it really been 6 years for the T2?
It's hard to believe that the T2 was introduced 6 years ago, the PRO 9 and the T1 over 10.
The MRO should have been a T1 killer, and I am happy with mine, but the micro is still king.
Andy
WickedWillis
07-20-20, 10:12
I prefer my Pro over my T1. I know I'm a blasphemer. My pro is clearer and has a crisper dot with my astigmatism than my T1 does. I have no time on the T2, but I have heard that everything about the optical view is "cleaner" than the T1.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-20-20, 13:24
Ive owned 3 or 4 H1's, 3 or 4 T1's, a Comp M4, Comp M5, Pro, and a T2. I currently have an H1, T2, Razor 1-6, and Pro. Beyond that, I've owned all sorts of high end LPVO's and Eotechs. The T2 is by far the most superior optic I have ever owned. It's lightweight, reliability, ruggedness, etc all make for an elite package. There is nothing on the market right now that comes close. Buy the Scalarworks combo and you get what I would consider the finest fighting optic on the market.
Now, my Comp M5 literally died one day and had to go back to the factory, and my old H1 is bleeding batteries at a 6 month to 1 year pace, so obviously not even Aimpoint is immune to issues, but so far my T2 has been ultra reliable.
I am not an expert shooter at all, and I've only got a handful of magazines thru a T-2 equipped carbine, along with some time shooting the M68. I personally find the Eotech reticle to be more "comfortable" to shoot, and I really like the big window over the smaller dots. That said, I'll fully admit I probably don't have enough training on red dots to have the best form and it could be the Eotech makes up for my short comings, not that there's anything negative about the smaller tube T-2. I do prefer a fixed front sight, and I do feel like the smaller window gets a little crowded with irons up. But again, that's possibly just indicative of my issues as a shooter.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-20-20, 15:10
I do prefer a fixed front sight, and I do feel like the smaller window gets a little crowded with irons up. But again, that's possibly just indicative of my issues as a shooter.
Are you using an absolute or lower 1/3 cowitness mount? If absolute, try a lower 1/3 mount. The front sight will sit low enough in the optic to not block what's going on around the dot.
Are you using an absolute or lower 1/3 cowitness mount? If absolute, try a lower 1/3 mount. The front sight will sit low enough in the optic to not block what's going on around the dot.
I shoot a lower 1/3 mount with an EXPS. Again, it may just me I need more practice not getting "sucked in" to my optic but I find that I feel like I can see better better and have been SA with more daylight around the front site post in the larger sight window, the small T-2 tube with the a FSB sticking up seems busy to my eyes. But I tend to think it's all a personal preference and training issue--I've actually been thinking about building a light weight carbine with a T2 just to have a light weight/slick set up.
Heading up to Eurooptic on Wednesday to buy my first red dot: A CompM5. As of now I'm probably buying it with the factory QD mount. Any real advantages to going aftermarket instead (LaRue etc.)
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-20-20, 16:09
I shoot a lower 1/3 mount with an EXPS. Again, it may just me I need more practice not getting "sucked in" to my optic but I find that I feel like I can see better better and have been SA with more daylight around the front site post in the larger sight window, the small T-2 tube with the a FSB sticking up seems busy to my eyes. But I tend to think it's all a personal preference and training issue--I've actually been thinking about building a light weight carbine with a T2 just to have a light weight/slick set up.
Does the FSB/Micro combo seem busy to your eyes while you're out shooting or just at home in your living room? Are you target focused and superimposing the dot onto the target or are you staring at the dot and seeing the front sight as well?
Heading up to Eurooptic on Wednesday to buy my first red dot: A CompM5. As of now I'm probably buying it with the factory QD mount. Any real advantages to going aftermarket instead (LaRue etc.)
I have always been underwhelmed by the factory mounts and prefer to order them without it, even if it only saves a few bucks.
Yeah, I have only bought Aimpoint OEM mounts when the deal was too good to pass up (like H-2 w/mount for $525 several years ago), but then I sold it for $50 and replaced it with a better aftermarket mount.
Yeah, I have only bought Aimpoint OEM mounts when the deal was too good to pass up (like H-2 w/mount for $525 several years ago), but then I sold it for $50 and replaced it with a better aftermarket mount.
What's "better" about aftermarket mounts vs OEM? I'm not trying to be snarky, I genuinely don't know. I'd be surprised if Aimpoint put a POS mount on a $700+ piece of gear.
Here for the learning.
Does the FSB/Micro combo seem busy to your eyes while you're out shooting or just at home in your living room? Are you target focused and superimposing the dot onto the target or are you staring at the dot and seeing the front sight as well?
I've got limited experience with the T2, but when I shot it it was on a range w/targets from 50m - 100m. I think part of the issue is at that distance my eyes are working a little harder than up close. So maybe it's exclusively a training issue for me, as soon as I get the parts together I'll have to try a T2 setup more extensively and get a proper impression.
mebiuspower
07-20-20, 17:48
What's "better" about aftermarket mounts vs OEM? I'm not trying to be snarky, I genuinely don't know. I'd be surprised if Aimpoint put a POS mount on a $700+ piece of gear.
Here for the learning.
Spuhr makes a better mount.
Buy the Scalarworks combo and you get what I would consider the finest fighting optic on the market.
I'm going to have to look at that. I got 2 30mm Aimpoint mounts from them, and they are outstanding.
(I still enjoy my trash Holosun. It's beat up, but it makes a great ranch gun RDS that gets tossed in the back of the truck to drive out and paint steel targets)
I still chose the 30mm unless size and weight are critical, and absolutely with a fixed front sight.
gunnerblue
07-20-20, 19:32
Does the FSB/Micro combo seem busy to your eyes while you're out shooting or just at home in your living room? Are you target focused and superimposing the dot onto the target or are you staring at the dot and seeing the front sight as well?
I have always been underwhelmed by the factory mounts and prefer to order them without it, even if it only saves a few bucks.
I dont notice the front sight (DD or FSB) with the dot on either a T1, T2 or Pro anymore than I notice the end of a bolt-gun barrel with a 1-x scope. I just see the dot (Bobro and LaRue lower 1/3 QD mounts).
And yes, I prefer to not deal with the factory mounts as well
TRASH!!! :jester:
https://i.imgur.com/WU8obKY.jpg
I will say that after several years of going almost exclusively to LPVOs, the Unity mounts have made the T2/3X-C combo much more compelling to me again. It’s a fantastic setup if you’ve got the face for it, IMO. Doesn’t replace a good LPVO but adds a lot of utility to a dot gun.
TRASH!!! :jester:
https://i.imgur.com/WU8obKY.jpg
That's no way to talk about your $30 upper receiver :D Not sure what I was thinking when I bought only one.
That's no way to talk about your $30 upper receiver :D Not sure what I was thinking when I bought only one.
I actually missed the bus on that one. Someone here sold this to me for like $45 to cover the cost plus shipping.
I do have to admit. Euro has sold me on the T2... especially if it comes back in stock in the Scaler Works bundle.
Eurodriver
07-21-20, 14:04
I actually missed the bus on that one. Someone here sold this to me for like $45 to cover the cost plus shipping.
I do have to admit. Euro has sold me on the T2... especially if it comes back in stock in the Scaler Works bundle.
Can’t tell if I’m being trolled here.... :)
Can’t tell if I’m being trolled here.... :)
Nope. You make a compelling case for the T2. And I wouldn't have known the upsides to picking the T2 over the T1. I'd genuinely like the Scaler Works bundle.
Definitely a fan of the T2(+ Scalarworks mount), over pretty much any other red dot, at this point. It's pretty much all I want on my rifles, even with my developing astigmatism I haven't found the bloom to be distracting. That being said I do have one LPVO on one(Leupold Mk6 + Scalarworks mount).
Nope. You make a compelling case for the T2. And I wouldn't have known the upsides to picking the T2 over the T1. I'd genuinely like the Scaler Works bundle.
T2 on Scalarworks is heat, though I don’t like that dial which is why I want to try the M5. Just don’t want to pay for it.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-21-20, 15:38
my t2/scalarworks/kac/fcd combo is the best red dot combo available, hands down. copy it, be happy.
https://i.imgur.com/9NFrShl.jpg
Nope. You make a compelling case for the T2. And I wouldn't have known the upsides to picking the T2 over the T1. I'd genuinely like the Scaler Works bundle.
i must have missed that. i'm still using T1 and don't have any T2. where were the upsides listed?
My T1 is a decade old. I don't recall how much I spent on it, but I'm guessing it works out to like $50/year. No scratch that, more like $51/year including the replacement batteries. It still works though so that cost of ownership will keep going down.
There was a time I thought the PA and Holosun red dots made sense on non defensive use guns, but that was foolish thinking on my part. The COVID panic allowed me to offload them at little to no loss and were replaced by Aimpoints on those same non defensive use guns.
You know what a proper flex is? My 11 year old with her M&P 15-22 and a T1 dunking on the boomers at the range with their Sig Romeos. Nothing like having some Wilfred Brimley looking dude tell you it's foolish to spend that much on a red dot for a kid's rifle. Lmao go be poor somewhere else.
I have an Aimpoint on my Smith AR .22LR, but it works so much better with a G3G tigger. Two accessories costing much more than said gun, but not so abnormal for me with my Remmy builds & NF fetish. Glass is where it’s at.
I own a couple Micros, two M4’s ( that’s all that was available) and one Pro. Not a fan of the Pro.
PB
my t2/scalarworks/kac/fcd combo is the best red dot combo available, hands down. copy it, be happy.
https://i.imgur.com/9NFrShl.jpg
Low speed what is that bad boy? Very cool. So much still to learn. The market is crazy.
PB
What's "better" about aftermarket mounts vs OEM? I'm not trying to be snarky, I genuinely don't know. I'd be surprised if Aimpoint put a POS mount on a $700+ piece of gear.
Here for the learning.
Their QD potential is amazing. Remounting and keeping zero and just knowing it’s now truly bombproof. The factory mounts are not that great. I like Bobro mounts. I have several Larue’s but Bobro don’t have to Adjusted for each pic rail.
PB
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-21-20, 16:18
Low speed what is that bad boy? Very cool. So much still to learn. The market is crazy.
PB
Scorpion micro k
Scorpion micro k
So many new toys in this arena. I bought a APC recently, never heard of them 6 months ago.
PB
So many new toys in this arena. I bought a APC recently, never heard of them 6 months ago.
PB
Interested. Have you posted about here?
i must have missed that. i'm still using T1 and don't have any T2. where were the upsides listed?
Couple of replies early in the thread indicated the clarity of the T2 was better.... unless I read it wrong.
T2 on Scalarworks is heat, though I don’t like that dial which is why I want to try the M5. Just don’t want to pay for it.
I'll tell ya that I was about to buy another Micro, the Comp M5 and I was less than impressed with several videos of the illumination knob popping off in one drop (posted one of them below). Of course people can say don't drop it, but look at the reason Aimpoint beefed up the metal on top to shield the elevation adjustment dial (top drops were a T/H-1 killer too). It was enough to convince me to buy another T/H-2 for now.
https://youtu.be/W-JoHdB3MxI?t=324
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-21-20, 17:23
Like I mentioned previously mentioned, my M5 shit the bed, aimpoint said it was a defect they'd seen more than once with that line. My T2 is far crisper than any of my T1's were.
Walker_Texasranger
07-21-20, 18:33
Love the T2 other then the fact that the dot looks like crap to me but that’s not aimpoints fault, it’s gods! Lol.
m1a_scoutguy
07-21-20, 20:43
my t2/scalarworks/kac/fcd combo is the best red dot combo available, hands down. copy it, be happy.
https://i.imgur.com/9NFrShl.jpg
That does look bass-ass for sure. What is the typical height for the Scalarworks you use for mounting with BUIS? I know there are many variables, but just wonder what you used on your gun above. Thanks
my t2/scalarworks/kac/fcd combo is the best red dot combo available, hands down. copy it, be happy.
https://i.imgur.com/9NFrShl.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200722/7eb81a5706bdf7d46892a2b32a559448.jpg
And tango down.
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I shoot a lower 1/3 mount with an EXPS. Again, it may just me I need more practice not getting "sucked in" to my optic but I find that I feel like I can see better better and have been SA with more daylight around the front site post in the larger sight window, the small T-2 tube with the a FSB sticking up seems busy to my eyes. But I tend to think it's all a personal preference and training issue--I've actually been thinking about building a light weight carbine with a T2 just to have a light weight/slick set up.
There's no need to second guess yourself. The Eotech's clarity, field of view and lack of the "tube effect" make it excel. I've had and trained with the H1, T1, T2, RMR, DPP, Eotech 512, XPS 2-0 and several LPVO's on my do it all carbine - and I always go back to the Eotech. Nothing beats it for efficiency out to 200yds (or more if your eyes are better than mine)
Additionally - the whole 50 bazillion hour battery life argument is hilarious. If you can reload a 30 rd magazine, but you don't have the mental or physical facets to press a single button to turn your weapon sight on, (after turning it off, or allowing it to auto shut off), you should probably train more.
For those of you applauding the H1/T1 and MRO - you owe it to yourself to read the greeneye tactical test. Parallax was a huge issue in some of these.
Interested. Have you posted about here?
In sub forum beyond 556 I started a thread on “Which APC version to buy”. Why you ask ?
Or did I misunderstood the question.
PB
Euro, you make another stellar argument. I enjoy shooting with LPVOs, but the Aimpoint Micro is king. I really struggled with the cost of my first H1, but it is a purchase I have never regretted. 10 years later I have H1s on a Micro Scorpion, an SP5 and a my wife’s BCM 14.5” middy with a H2 on a BCM 11.5” SBR and a T2 on a 10.3” URGI pistol. It’s beauty is it’s simplicity and reliability. Plus, in my experience, Aimpoint’s CS is outstanding. I stripped the screws out of one of my micros trying to change the mount. I had locktited in there good and tight. Call Aimpoint, sent it off and had it back with the micro removed from the mount and a set of new screws with in 10 days.
PracticalRifleman
07-22-20, 12:07
I believe my next optic will be the T2. I’m in the market for two dots right now. I can’t think of anything better.
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There's no need to second guess yourself. The Eotech's clarity, field of view and lack of the "tube effect" make it excel. I've had and trained with the H1, T1, T2, RMR, DPP, Eotech 512, XPS 2-0 and several LPVO's on my do it all carbine - and I always go back to the Eotech. Nothing beats it for efficiency out to 200yds (or more if your eyes are better than mine)
Thanks for that. I have an EO, but haven't run it very much. I'm constantly wondering why it's so often seen on real world, special ops guns. I don't get enough RDS shooting time to appreciate the pros of the EOtech.
Eurodriver
07-22-20, 14:43
A lot of people are misunderstanding the point of the OP.
Of course there are other options on the AR platform but put an eotech on a handgun and get back to me.
The Aimpoint micro does everything.
What you think about Aimpoint ACRO? I kinda want one for my APC. Don’t know if it offers anything over the Micro’s, but why make it if it doesn’t improve something? Anyone know that scoop. And I feel like the Aimpoint M5 is for die hard M4 folks to offer something new.
Guess I need to do some reading.
PB
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-22-20, 16:29
What you think about Aimpoint ACRO? I kinda want one for my APC. Don’t know if it offers anything over the Micro’s, but why make it if it doesn’t improve something? Anyone know that scoop. And I feel like the Aimpoint M5 is for die hard M4 folks to offer something new.
Guess I need to do some reading.
PB
The ACRO, for me, all comes down to battery life. If I am going to be turning my optic off after every use, I may as well buy another Eotech....
I read up a bit. I guess the ACRO is for handguns primarily or PCC’s but could be used where you wish. If it’s Aimpoint it’s GTG IMHO.
I didn’t see where you have to turn on/off for use. That’s not so cool but speaks to the awesomeness of the micro.
PB
PracticalRifleman
07-22-20, 21:42
I read up a bit. I guess the ACRO is for handguns primarily or PCC’s but could be used where you wish. If it’s Aimpoint it’s GTG IMHO.
I didn’t see where you have to turn on/off for use. That’s not so cool but speaks to the awesomeness of the micro.
PB
The ACRO has about a three week battery life of left on at a useable level.
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What is a used, excellent condition Aimpoint T1 in a good mount going for these days?
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The ACRO has about a three week battery life of left on at a useable level.
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Holly fck, deal killer out of the box. How stupid. I take back my GTG comment.
PB
WickedWillis
07-23-20, 17:09
The ACRO has about a three week battery life of left on at a useable level.
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Which is why I have not bought one to mount on a handgun yet
PracticalRifleman
07-23-20, 17:27
Which is why I have not bought one to mount on a handgun yet
Me either. I wanted one very much so pre-release. But that’s a deal breaker for me. I just don’t have time for that.
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I’d never recommend holosun over an aimpoint except in this instance. The 509T is a sealed unit with 50k hour life that Aaron at Sage dynamics recommends over the acro. Unfortunately they’re not available right now
What you think about Aimpoint ACRO? I kinda want one for my APC. Don’t know if it offers anything over the Micro’s, but why make it if it doesn’t improve something? Anyone know that scoop. And I feel like the Aimpoint M5 is for die hard M4 folks to offer something new.
Guess I need to do some reading.
PB
Im trying to decide T2 or nx8 for my 11.5”.
I have a vxr patrol on my 14.5 and bought holosun/pa for range guns (yes I put a $200 optic on an $8k gun... poor.)
I have a leupold lco and love it. Large window, motion activated, lifetime warrenty. It's not battle tested but it will fit my needs I'm not a fan of the t2 is just not for me I like the large windows like eotech. I don't think the t2 is the best optic and I think holoson and vortex are knocking on the door. I refuse to buy holosun or anything made in China though. I'm also not a fan of the mro. My next 1x will probably be a eotech, but my next optic is an lpvo.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-23-20, 22:56
What is a used, excellent condition Aimpoint T1 in a good mount going for these days?
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Define good mount. Are you looking to buy or sell?
I actually missed the bus on that one. Someone here sold this to me for like $45 to cover the cost plus shipping.
I do have to admit. Euro has sold me on the T2... especially if it comes back in stock in the Scaler Works bundle.
They got em back in stock now. Ordered one last night.
Being transparent, I’m going to sell my T1. The mount is a LaRue LT660.
I ordered a Scalarworks Mount/T2 combo yesterday afternoon when I received the back in stock notification.
Define good mount. Are you looking to buy or sell?
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I ordered a Scalarworks Mount/T2 combo yesterday afternoon when I received the back in stock notification.
Those mount are so sweet. I need to save a little more before I buy a sight I don't REALLY need.
Yeah, the “I really don’t need it” self talk to avoid the purchase yesterday failed miserably.
This will be my 4th Scalarworks product. I have an LPVO mount, MRO combo and a rear BUIS. I love their stuff.
Those mount are so sweet. I need to save a little more before I buy a sight I don't REALLY need.
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i like scalarworks too, but if they really wanted to impress me with their mounts, they would include an integral storage compartment for cr2032 batteries in their T2 and LPVO mounts. a stack of 2-3 batteries inside the mount would be nicer than grip storage because grip storage isn't sealed and a few times i've had to go prone in puddles of water that got the grip wet
Just got a T2 and a Scalarworks mount. Love the mount, not the T2. I must be an anomaly, as compared to my 10yr old H1, it isn't nearly as bright and it seems I have only about 3 visible settings. It's either blinding or barely visible. Sending it back today :(
i like scalarworks too, but if they really wanted to impress me with their mounts, they would include an integral storage compartment for cr2032 batteries in their T2 and LPVO mounts. a stack of 2-3 batteries inside the mount would be nicer than grip storage because grip storage isn't sealed and a few times i've had to go prone in puddles of water that got the grip wet
Cheap fix to that bro.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fi%2F221301285299-0-1%2Fs-l1000.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
Cheap fix to that bro.
I don't even go that far, I just cut the rest of the packaging card off and keep these around in my gear.
https://i.imgur.com/U27yFTW.jpg
Did you try replacing the battery? My Pros will do the exact same thing when the battery is going. Just because it is new doesn’t mean the battery isn’t suspect.
Just got a T2 and a Scalarworks mount. Love the mount, not the T2. I must be an anomaly, as compared to my 10yr old H1, it isn't nearly as bright and it seems I have only about 3 visible settings. It's either blinding or barely visible. Sending it back today :(
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Five_Point_Five_Six
07-24-20, 19:02
Being transparent, I’m going to sell my T1. The mount is a LaRue LT660.
I ordered a Scalarworks Mount/T2 combo yesterday afternoon when I received the back in stock notification.
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I don't know what others would be willing to spend, but I picked up a like new T1 in LT660 mount a couple months ago for $400.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-24-20, 19:06
i like scalarworks too, but if they really wanted to impress me with their mounts, they would include an integral storage compartment for cr2032 batteries in their T2 and LPVO mounts. a stack of 2-3 batteries inside the mount would be nicer than grip storage because grip storage isn't sealed and a few times i've had to go prone in puddles of water that got the grip wet
Is this a concern you have because of an EOTWAWKI/SHTF/WROL type thing? If you feel you need a spare battery for a T2 and you don't wanna use a ziploc bag inside the grip you can get the KAC battery cap which holds a spare.
Is this a concern you have because of an EOTWAWKI/SHTF/WROL type thing? If you feel you need a spare battery for a T2 and you don't wanna use a ziploc bag inside the grip you can get the KAC battery cap which holds a spare.
Honestly I don’t know. I just have this weird tendency to stuff spare batteries everywhere. No particular shtf fetish or anything. I have lots of other devices that use them and 123 and AA. So I sometimes have 123 in the pistol grip.
My nf1-8 would need them relatively often and sits in a scalarworks.
Thanks. I was thinking $450. I have local friend who’s going to buy it.
The T1 was fine, but based on other’s praise, I’m looking forward to the T2 based on my astigmatism.
I don't know what others would be willing to spend, but I picked up a like new T1 in LT660 mount a couple months ago for $400.
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Thanks. I was thinking $450. I have local friend who’s going to buy it.
The T1 was fine, but based on other’s praise, I’m looking forward to the T2 based on my astigmatism.
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Is the astigmatism issue discussed in this thread? I skimmed through and didn’t notice it. I have a Pro and one of the H models (will have to check) I wanted to like but my astigmatism makes them not so great.
It’s based on other research, not so much in this thread. Reports are the T2 is much more clear. I’ll find out soon enough as mine is supposed to arrive Monday.
Is the astigmatism issue discussed in this thread? I skimmed through and didn’t notice it. I have a Pro and one of the H models (will have to check) I wanted to like but my astigmatism makes them not so great.
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It’s based on other research, not so much in this thread. Reports are the T2 is much more clear. I’ll find out soon enough as mine is supposed to arrive Monday.
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10-4, thank you.
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Did you try replacing the battery? My Pros will do the exact same thing when the battery is going. Just because it is new doesn’t mean the battery isn’t suspect.
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Yep, first thing I did. Brand new Energizer, still the same.
Mysteryman
07-26-20, 12:42
There's no need to second guess yourself. The Eotech's clarity, field of view and lack of the "tube effect" make it excel. I've had and trained with the H1, T1, T2, RMR, DPP, Eotech 512, XPS 2-0 and several LPVO's on my do it all carbine - and I always go back to the Eotech. Nothing beats it for efficiency out to 200yds (or more if your eyes are better than mine)
Additionally - the whole 50 bazillion hour battery life argument is hilarious. If you can reload a 30 rd magazine, but you don't have the mental or physical facets to press a single button to turn your weapon sight on, (after turning it off, or allowing it to auto shut off), you should probably train more.
For those of you applauding the H1/T1 and MRO - you owe it to yourself to read the greeneye tactical test. Parallax was a huge issue in some of these.
Yes, the "test" that is comprised of USER data that has zero data collection controls, no overight, or data verification. Let's cut off the reply that is sure to come in defense of EOTech sights.
All optics experience parallax. EOTech claimed their optics were parallax free. That is a lie. The parallax experienced by the EOTech sight was attributed to more than simply design limitations and/or head/dot position within the viewing window. Specifically speaking, EOTech sights suffer from "thermal drift" which occurs at ALL temperatures. That is the reticle position changes when the ambient temperature changes. No, the sight does not need to experience temperature extremes, it simply needs to experience an ambient temperature change from that which it was zeroed to experience "thermal drift". Now thermal drift isn't parallax but i does result in the same issue, loss of zero and or inconsistent POI. EOTech sights also experience increased parallax due to temperature changes. EOTech sights also have inconsistent adjustment value "clicks" which makes zeroing a chore. EOTech sights are not water proof and suffer from moisture incursion which dims or kills the reticle. EOTech sights suffer from unknown parasitic battery drain. Last but not least, the scumbags at EOTech were aware of these issues as far back as 2007 and yet they continued to sell these optics to military and law enforcement customers. Hence the $26.7 million dollar lawsuit filed against L3/EOTech by the US government. A lawusit they won without a fight. A lawsuit that resulted in EOTech offering a no questions asked refund to any and all EOTech owners.
All that aside lets discuss the red dot sights in question.
The micro is smaller, lighter, and has a superior battery life to any other red dot.
The micro is submersible to 80 feet. The EOTech is water resistant to 33 feet
The micro can be mounted on all firearms. EOTech cannot.
The micro has .44 MOA adjustments. The EOTech has "approximately 0.5 MOA adjustments" as in they can't assure you the clicks are consistent.
The gimmick about "field of view" with an EOTech is nothing but lack of knowledge or experience. Target focus with both eyes open is how you use a red dot sight, and the FOV is UNLIMITED. The "tube" effect is again a bogus excuse for lack of knowledge.
Yes, you see a lot of EOTech sights in use by mil personnel. I would hazard an educated guess and say there are a couple reasons for it. 1, the larger window makes using the sight with NOD's for passive engagement a lot easier. Same for use with a gas mask. 2, it's what is issued and they don't pay for gear and thus don't care what they get, or how robust it is.
As an aside note, L3 has sold off EOTech sights to what I believe is a real estate management company. I doubt L3 would sell off a profitable division of their company. Which leads me to believe that EOTech sights are very much on the downward slide.
Here's a link to EOTech's own FAQ page discussing the failings of their sights.
https://www.eotechinc.com/customer-service/faqs
I'll cut and paste the text here.
EOTECH’s sights experience a point of impact shift away from the point of aim when the sight is exposed to a temperature different from the temperature at which the sight was zeroed. After zeroing the sight at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. For sights manufactured after October 2016, the typical shift will be between approximately 1.4 and 1.8 minutes of angle (“MOA”). Due to manufacturing variations, however, a particular sight has the potential to shift a maximum of approximately 3.5 MOA at -4°F and 122°F. Sights manufactured prior to October 2016 have the potential to shift approximately +/- 5 MOA at -40°F and 122°F.
Due to thermal drift, sights may not return to zero. The sights have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F.
Shifts result from natural thermal expansion or contraction that is present in various materials as they are heated or cooled, and is greater the more extreme the temperature change. For example, when a sight is zeroed at 73˚ F then acclimated to 50˚ F, less shift occurs. On the other hand, if zeroed at 73˚ F, then acclimated to 0˚ F, more shift occurs. The shift may not be significant to shooters who use their sights at close-quarters ranges. For instance, 3.5 MOA is a shift of .875 inches at 25 yards, and is 3.5 inches at 100 yards. It also is worth noting that thermal effects are evidenced to varying degrees in common optics, as well as in rifle barrels and ammunition as the environmental conditions change. In all events, to achieve optimum accuracy, the sight zero should be verified whenever the sight is exposed to marked temperature changes, and the sight should be re-zeroed as necessary.
Yes, the "test" that is comprised of USER data that has zero data collection controls, no overight, or data verification. Let's cut off the reply that is sure to come in defense of EOTech sights.
All optics experience parallax. EOTech claimed their optics were parallax free. That is a lie. The parallax experienced by the EOTech sight was attributed to more than simply design limitations and/or head/dot position within the viewing window. Specifically speaking, EOTech sights suffer from "thermal drift" which occurs at ALL temperatures. That is the reticle position changes when the ambient temperature changes. No, the sight does not need to experience temperature extremes, it simply needs to experience an ambient temperature change from that which it was zeroed to experience "thermal drift". Now thermal drift isn't parallax but i does result in the same issue, loss of zero and or inconsistent POI. EOTech sights also experience increased parallax due to temperature changes. EOTech sights also have inconsistent adjustment value "clicks" which makes zeroing a chore. EOTech sights are not water proof and suffer from moisture incursion which dims or kills the reticle. EOTech sights suffer from unknown parasitic battery drain. Last but not least, the scumbags at EOTech were aware of these issues as far back as 2007 and yet they continued to sell these optics to military and law enforcement customers. Hence the $26.7 million dollar lawsuit filed against L3/EOTech by the US government. A lawusit they won without a fight. A lawsuit that resulted in EOTech offering a no questions asked refund to any and all EOTech owners.
All that aside lets discuss the red dot sights in question.
The micro is smaller, lighter, and has a superior battery life to any other red dot.
The micro is submersible to 80 feet. The EOTech is water resistant to 33 feet
The micro can be mounted on all firearms. EOTech cannot.
The micro has .44 MOA adjustments. The EOTech has "approximately 0.5 MOA adjustments" as in they can't assure you the clicks are consistent.
The gimmick about "field of view" with an EOTech is nothing but lack of knowledge or experience. Target focus with both eyes open is how you use a red dot sight, and the FOV is UNLIMITED. The "tube" effect is again a bogus excuse for lack of knowledge.
Yes, you see a lot of EOTech sights in use by mil personnel. I would hazard an educated guess and say there are a couple reasons for it. 1, the larger window makes using the sight with NOD's for passive engagement a lot easier. Same for use with a gas mask. 2, it's what is issued and they don't pay for gear and thus don't care what they get, or how robust it is.
As an aside note, L3 has sold off EOTech sights to what I believe is a real estate management company. I doubt L3 would sell off a profitable division of their company. Which leads me to believe that EOTech sights are very much on the downward slide.
Here's a link to EOTech's own FAQ page discussing the failings of their sights.
https://www.eotechinc.com/customer-service/faqs
I'll cut and paste the text here.
EOTECH’s sights experience a point of impact shift away from the point of aim when the sight is exposed to a temperature different from the temperature at which the sight was zeroed. After zeroing the sight at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. For sights manufactured after October 2016, the typical shift will be between approximately 1.4 and 1.8 minutes of angle (“MOA”). Due to manufacturing variations, however, a particular sight has the potential to shift a maximum of approximately 3.5 MOA at -4°F and 122°F. Sights manufactured prior to October 2016 have the potential to shift approximately +/- 5 MOA at -40°F and 122°F.
Due to thermal drift, sights may not return to zero. The sights have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F.
Shifts result from natural thermal expansion or contraction that is present in various materials as they are heated or cooled, and is greater the more extreme the temperature change. For example, when a sight is zeroed at 73˚ F then acclimated to 50˚ F, less shift occurs. On the other hand, if zeroed at 73˚ F, then acclimated to 0˚ F, more shift occurs. The shift may not be significant to shooters who use their sights at close-quarters ranges. For instance, 3.5 MOA is a shift of .875 inches at 25 yards, and is 3.5 inches at 100 yards. It also is worth noting that thermal effects are evidenced to varying degrees in common optics, as well as in rifle barrels and ammunition as the environmental conditions change. In all events, to achieve optimum accuracy, the sight zero should be verified whenever the sight is exposed to marked temperature changes, and the sight should be re-zeroed as necessary.
Show me on the doll where the eotech hurt you bro.
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Show me on the doll wheee eotech hurt you bro.
Seriously - almost 5 years (and documented improvements to the eotechs) later...
Someone buy this dude a snickers... and an eotech...
https://i.imgur.com/mQR4HTW.png
Lol, someone pulled a quote from 2015... This is funny.
2, it's what is issued and they don't pay for gear and thus don't care what they get, or how robust it is.
I'm talking about guys who get to run what they want. Some of the more advanced "special operations" guns are outfitted with Eotechs.
I don't care one way or another, but I've often wondered why it gets picked.
vicious_cb
07-27-20, 00:18
Because Eotechs are better under NODs. Unless you are fighting at night...a lot, you are better off with an Aimpoint.
Mysteryman
07-27-20, 04:03
Show me on the doll where the eotech hurt you bro.
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Do you think selling shitty optics to military and LE personnel is acceptable??? I have no dog in this race, I didn't get burned with a garbage optic. I will however burn that shit company and shit product down every chance I get. Intentionally misleading consumers, hiding known defects, and yet they continue to offer up turds for optics like nothing happened. They're oversized, overweight, and have pathetic battery life. Not to mention the other failing issues I mentioned before that have not been rectified.
Seriously - almost 5 years (and documented improvements to the eotechs) later...
Someone buy this dude a snickers... and an eotech...
What improvements, firing their executive leadership and changing their logo? Maybe you mean their green reticle offering with an even more pathetic battery life?
Do you think selling shitty optics to military and LE personnel is acceptable??? I have no dog in this race, I didn't get burned with a garbage optic. I will however burn that shit company and shit product down every chance I get. Intentionally misleading consumers, hiding known defects, and yet they continue to offer up turds for optics like nothing happened. They're oversized, overweight, and have pathetic battery life. Not to mention the other failing issues I mentioned before that have not been rectified.
What improvements, firing their executive leadership and changing their logo? Maybe you mean their green reticle offering with an even more pathetic battery life?
They’re not as bad as you’re making them out to be. I know of a bunch of people that used them for many years while stacking bodies and the only complaint I’ve ever heard is the batteries. Even then, that was directed towards the 551.
I hope you hate Sig just as much.
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They didn’t “sell” shitty optics to SOF. We chose them, and used them to smoke dudes, and our guys liked them.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-27-20, 09:04
Lol, someone pulled a quote from 2015... This is funny.
...and by a dude that used his email for his username. Lmao this thread has everything.
I had a conversation with the kind of dude that @1168 just mentioned. He liked his Eotech he used in the GWOT, so much so that he gave it fresh batteries everyday. He didn't like the Eotech enough to put one on any of his personal guns at home though. They got Aimpoints.
...and by a dude that used his email for his username. Lmao this thread has everything.
I had a conversation with the kind of dude that @1168 just mentioned. He liked his Eotech he used in the GWOT, so much so that he gave it fresh batteries everyday. He didn't like the Eotech enough to put one on any of his personal guns at home though. They got Aimpoints.
MysteryMan and lukeskywalker were taken...
Dunno... maybe I could be something like echochamber
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...and by a dude that used his email for his username. Lmao this thread has everything.
I had a conversation with the kind of dude that @1168 just mentioned. He liked his Eotech he used in the GWOT, so much so that he gave it fresh batteries everyday. He didn't like the Eotech enough to put one on any of his personal guns at home though. They got Aimpoints.
Wait, wait - I got it - I’m gonna be “eo-fended”
Now, how do you change your user name?
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Five_Point_Five_Six
07-27-20, 09:31
MysteryMan and lukeskywalker were taken...
Dunno... maybe I could be something like echochamber
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Not to mention "4t5acp@gmail.com" might be the most boomer email address, ever. Bravo good sir, you win a $50 Golden Corral gift certificate and a signed Andy Griffith poster. :D
Not to mention "4t5acp@gmail.com" might be the most boomer email address, ever. Bravo good sir, you win a $50 Golden Corral gift certificate and a signed Andy Griffith poster. :D
Hahahaha....now that shit’s funny. Well done Sir...
Hahaha
Not to mention "4t5acp@gmail.com" might be the most boomer email address, ever. Bravo good sir, you win a $50 Golden Corral gift certificate and a signed Andy Griffith poster. :D
In all seriousness, can you email me an electronic copy of that gift certificate? I mean, you have my address…
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Not to mention "4t5acp@gmail.com" might be the most boomer email address, ever. Bravo good sir, you win a $50 Golden Corral gift certificate and a signed Andy Griffith poster. :D
Now it has everything.
Also, I’m pretty sure there are instructions somewhere for changing user name. Mods/Admin have to do, I think.
Here’s the link:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?208831-Want-to-Change-your-M4C-Username
WickedWillis
07-27-20, 10:46
Now it has everything.
Also, I’m pretty sure there are instructions somewhere for changing user name. Mods/Admin have to do, I think.
Here’s the link:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?208831-Want-to-Change-your-M4C-Username
I tried to, but the one I wanted was taken by a user I have never seen on here. Oh well.
Green eye tactical banned T1's in their classes in 2017 due to parallax issues. I have never personally had any parallax issues with my T1 or my EXPS-3, but to be fair I have mountains more rounds down range on my Pro than I do the eotech or the t1, combined. Maybe it's an issue that guys who run the piss out of them experience more.
I remember seeing Larry Vickers doing a bit for Daniel Defense torture testing one of their rifles and the Aimpoint on that rifle held up unbelievably well. i've put them on each rifle I've purchased since, originally an H1 and T2s since. Never had even a hiccup during training, duty or range time. Have never had any sort of magnifier behind one though.
Now it has everything.
Also, I’m pretty sure there are instructions somewhere for changing user name. Mods/Admin have to do, I think.
Here’s the link:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?208831-Want-to-Change-your-M4C-Username
Why on earth would I want to change it now? I mean, it's finally starting to pay off! (Have you been to a Golden Corral desert spread lately?)
As far as the signed poster though... I live in a pretty small house, and I'm not sure if I'll be able to give it the real-estate it deserves...
unless, maybe I take down this cow-pic...
https://i.imgur.com/XQrLCXM.jpg
or maybe some of these old boomer-relics (but I was hoping to replace them with some training certificates, in an effort to overcome my apparent "lack of knowledge or experience".
WickedWillis
07-27-20, 11:09
[QUOTE=4t5acp@gmail.com;2867443]Why on earth would I want to change it now? I mean, it's finally starting to pay off! (Have you been to a Golden Corral desert spread lately?)
As far as the signed poster though... I live in a pretty small house, and I'm not sure if I'll be able to give it the real-estate it deserves...
Lol well played.
I was really hoping to see a Beretta M93R in there somewhere though. Is that a 416 on the bottom?
Lol well played.
I was really hoping to see a Beretta M93R in there somewhere though. Is that a 416 on the bottom?
Yes, but FWIW - I'd rather have carried an SR16 - Story for another day...
All ribbing and joking aside - I think Lucas / T-rex Arms did a pretty good job of summarizing where they stand with Eotech. -
Are the EOTechs good now? Wasn’t there some sort of scandal?
"There was. The responsible parties were dealt with, and reparations were made to both the military and commercial market. The question shouldn’t just be: “Was there wrongdoing?” The question should be: “How was it dealt with? Were things made right?” If things hadn’t been made right, we wouldn’t be selling EOTech products."
or maybe some of these old boomer-relics (but I was hoping to replace them with some training certificates, in an effort to overcome my apparent [COLOR="#FF0000"]"lack of knowledge or experience"
I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Talk about a surprise.
You know what a proper flex is? My 11 year old with her M&P 15-22 and a T1 dunking on the boomers at the range with their Sig Romeos. Nothing like having some Wilfred Brimley looking dude tell you it's foolish to spend that much on a red dot for a kid's rifle. Lmao go be poor somewhere else.
Speaking of laughing - I finally googled "Wilfred Brimley"..... dude, wtf? bwahahaha - Hilarious...
WickedWillis
07-27-20, 12:20
All ribbing and joking aside - I think Lucas / T-rex Arms did a pretty good job of summarizing where they stand with Eotech. -
Are the EOTechs good now? Wasn’t there some sort of scandal?
"There was. The responsible parties were dealt with, and reparations were made to both the military and commercial market. The question shouldn’t just be: “Was there wrongdoing?” The question should be: “How was it dealt with? Were things made right?” If things hadn’t been made right, we wouldn’t be selling EOTech products."
You lost me at twink larper bro.
Eotech did have to do a ton to save face, but I think they have. They didn't appear to lose any mil contracts over it.
You lost me at twink larper bro.
Eotech did have to do a ton to save face, but I think they have. They didn't appear to lose any mil contracts over it.
Wait, twink what? (Hey google...)
Yes, he seems to invite criticism, but based on the following (to name a few), I don't feel the need to defend him -
- his success
- the depth of folks he's shared his range with
- the volume of work he puts in
- the fact the he (& crew) lobbied to, and successfully had the TN ammo tax repealed
FYI - don't google "Twink Larper" (Thanks for that)
WickedWillis
07-27-20, 12:45
Wait, twink what? (Hey google....)
Yes, he seems to invite criticism, but based on the following (to name a few), I don't feel the need to defend him -
- his success
- the depth of folks he's shared his range with
- the volume of work he puts in
- the fact the he (& crew) lobbied to, and successfully had the TN ammo tax repealed
FYI - don't google "Twink Larper" (Thanks for that)
Bragging about being able to shoot better than most military and SF guys.
Being in a cult.
Being unable to finish a course because he refused to lift a 50-lb sand bag.
Somehow being allowed to train ****ing real life Police units, with his only credentials being his vidoes.
Continuously speeding up his clips, especially early on.
He is the Dan Bilzerian of the pewtubers without the models, Daddy's money helped get him started, and now he is doing very well. He has always been incredibly arrogant, and his fan boys are rampant on social media.
His positives are he has helped bring many airsofters into the 2a community, as well as the TN thing you touched on.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE THREAD DRIFT
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE THREAD DRIFT
Ahh...
I'm not on the socials, so I wasn't aware of all the associated drama.
Ref the drift, I believe his statement that I quoted still accurately summarizes my own thinking on the Eotech's.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-27-20, 19:10
Green eye tactical banned T1's in their classes in 2017 due to parallax issues.
Lol wut? I can get behind banning Derpa holsters because of safety concerns, or AIWB in classes, but banning an optic for parallax just seems like ridiculous. Are they sponsored by another optic company?
To kinda sorta get back on track, I went through my inventory today of RDS's. I have a T2 on an MP5, T1 on a 11.5 build, T1 on 14.5 BCM ELW build and Comp m4s on Mk18. I feel like a lost another M4 somewhere( I never sell glass, almost never) and then I slide down to a Aimpoint PRO and ACO.
What do you guys think these ACO & PRO optics fair in the world of RDS think? Obvious not T2 material but where in the "Wide World of Sports" (watched Blazing Saddles yesterday) do you think they land?
PB
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-27-20, 20:47
The PRO is no T2, but I have both and think that the PRO holds its own against the micro line if you are okay with the larger tube.
I always struggle with T vs H. I don't NV and don't swim with a rifle, does the T have any advantage for a guy like me besides resale value?
Andy
...and by a dude that used his email for his username. Lmao this thread has everything.
I had a conversation with the kind of dude that @1168 just mentioned. He liked his Eotech he used in the GWOT, so much so that he gave it fresh batteries everyday. He didn't like the Eotech enough to put one on any of his personal guns at home though. They got Aimpoints.
Yeah, I fed my EoTech batteries routinely, as did every member of my squad that had any electronic optic, including Aimpoints. Ironically, that practice started with older Aimpoints and held its momentum.
The reason most of my rifles wear Aimpoints is that I want to leave it on forever and not think about it. I do have a couple Eotechs and like them, I’m just spoiled by the Aimpoint’s tolerance for laziness. I’d be perfectly happy with an EoTech on a going-on-a-raid rifle.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-28-20, 07:00
I always struggle with T vs H. I don't NV and don't swim with a rifle, does the T have any advantage for a guy like me besides resale value?
Andy
I've never noticed a difference between my H and T optics, especially because I don't have NVG.
The reason most of my rifles wear Aimpoints is that I want to leave it on forever and not think about it. I do have a couple Eotechs and like them, I’m just spoiled by the Aimpoint’s tolerance for laziness. I’d be perfectly happy with an EoTech on a going-on-a-raid rifle.
That's it. An EOtech is just a big ghost ring sight if you have to shoot NOW. It would still work that way, but WTF?
If it weren't for Aimpoints leave-on-ability, I wouldn't even own an electronic sight.
WickedWillis
07-28-20, 10:26
Lol wut? I can get behind banning Derpa holsters because of safety concerns, or AIWB in classes, but banning an optic for parallax just seems like ridiculous. Are they sponsored by another optic company?
There was actually a thread about it a fear years back;
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?194504-Aimpoint-T-1-POI-shift-(Green-Eye-Tactical-Bans-T1-RDS)
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-28-20, 15:15
There was actually a thread about it a fear years back;
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?194504-Aimpoint-T-1-POI-shift-(Green-Eye-Tactical-Bans-T1-RDS)
I just read that whole thread, and I'm a bit surprised there were so many that didn't know red dots have varying degrees of POI shift from parallax. I mean, I understand putting the info out there so that people can be aware of it, but to ban T1's because of parallax still seems silly. I'd think the same if they banned Holosuns, I'm not just finding it to be over the top because I'm a bit of an Aimpoint fanboi.
So uh, funny thing happened this afternoon. I decided to stick the CompM5 on my lightweight "bump in the night" build because it already has fixed irons set up on it. Y'know, just to zero it with the irons & get better acquainted with the new piece of equipment.
Yeah, it lives there now. The factory mount is just a touch too high to work perfectly with the LMT rear sight on the go-to build I'm working on, but it lines up perfectly with the RRA Stand Alone rear sight & Samson HK front sight on my lightweight setup.
The original plan was to buy a Trijicon MRO for the lightweight build. Toyed with the idea of an H2...screw it. It's only $. Guess I'm going to be Aimpoint CompM5-ing all the things.
I'll buy the Scalarworks 1.42 height mount for the next one. It's just a little bit lower than the Aimpoint factory mount & will play much better with the other setup.
63255
Eurodriver
07-31-20, 19:35
So uh, funny thing happened this afternoon. I decided to stick the CompM5 on my lightweight "bump in the night" build because it already has fixed irons set up on it. Y'know, just to zero it with the irons & get better acquainted with the new piece of equipment.
Yeah, it lives there now. The factory mount is just a touch too high to work perfectly with the LMT rear sight on the go-to build I'm working on, but it lines up perfectly with the RRA Stand Alone rear sight & Samson HK front sight on my lightweight setup.
The original plan was to buy a Trijicon MRO for the lightweight build. Toyed with the idea of an H2...screw it. It's only $. Guess I'm going to be Aimpoint CompM5-ing all the things.
I'll buy the Scalarworks 1.42 height mount for the next one. It's just a little bit lower than the Aimpoint factory mount & will play much better with the other setup.
63255
Nice.
I just bought a CompM5 and Scalarworks 1.57" Mount for my 10.3" BCM build. I also bought two more Micros for a submachine gun and a PCC.
These things are like crack. Can't wait to see the M5 though.
Nice.
I just bought a CompM5 and Scalarworks 1.57" Mount for my 10.3" BCM build. I also bought two more Micros for a submachine gun and a PCC.
These things are like crack. Can't wait to see the M5 though.
Quality is expensive, but addictive. Buy once, cry once.
Buy once, cry once.
Sounds more like Buy repeatedly
js8588 has some sore of bondage rifle carriage going on in that pic.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-01-20, 18:52
I picked up a LMT MRP CQB 16" mid length upper this week and headed to the range this morning just to do a quick 250 round function check and get a rough zero on the optic. No irons, just a sling and a T1. Sure enough, the brass goblins in their knee high socks and cargo shorts were there, not shooting, just flapping their gums and drinking their Folger's or Maxwell House from their thermos'. I only visit this range when I'm pressed for time like I was this morning, it's close to home but you have to put up with a lot of mouth breathers.
One of them had a few milsurp looking rifles sitting on the table, the other had 5 or 6 different ARs in varying lengths and accessorizing. The guy with the multiple ARs shoots a mag through one of them, pops it open and removes the BCG and charging handle. He opens up the next one and puts the BCG and charging handle in it. He can't be. No. No way. There is no way this guy brought half a dozen guns and one BCG and charging handle for all of them. Nope, not gonna believe it. Oh here we go, he finished the mag from the second gun. Please don't touch the rear take down pin...please don't...... OH C'MON YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME??? YOU HAVE 6 ARS AND ONE SINGLE BCG AND CHARGING HANDLE FOR ALL OF THEM?????????? It gets better. Not only is he swapping the BCG and charging handle in and out of each one, only 2 of them have a red dot so he's pulling the optic off one of them and swapping it onto the others as he goes. It's not even on a QD mount either, he's over there fat fingering a tiny little hex key to remove and install it each time. At one point, he backed it off too far and the little piece that grips onto the rail fell down in the gravel and it took them like 5 minutes to find it.
The same guy that has told me that an Aimpoint is a waste of money thinks that owning multiple $300 hobby spec ARs with a single BCG and charging handle, and two chinese red dots is a wise use of resources. He had more money tied up in a pile of unfinished garbage that he would have if he bought a quality rifle and set it up with a good quality optic, light, and a sling.
I picked up a LMT MRP CQB 16" mid length upper this week and headed to the range this morning just to do a quick 250 round function check and get a rough zero on the optic. No irons, just a sling and a T1. Sure enough, the brass goblins in their knee high socks and cargo shorts were there, not shooting, just flapping their gums and drinking their Folger's or Maxwell House from their thermos'. I only visit this range when I'm pressed for time like I was this morning, it's close to home but you have to put up with a lot of mouth breathers.
One of them had a few milsurp looking rifles sitting on the table, the other had 5 or 6 different ARs in varying lengths and accessorizing. The guy with the multiple ARs shoots a mag through one of them, pops it open and removes the BCG and charging handle. He opens up the next one and puts the BCG and charging handle in it. He can't be. No. No way. There is no way this guy brought half a dozen guns and one BCG and charging handle for all of them. Nope, not gonna believe it. Oh here we go, he finished the mag from the second gun. Please don't touch the rear take down pin...please don't...... OH C'MON YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME??? YOU HAVE 6 ARS AND ONE SINGLE BCG AND CHARGING HANDLE FOR ALL OF THEM?????????? It gets better. Not only is he swapping the BCG and charging handle in and out of each one, only 2 of them have a red dot so he's pulling the optic off one of them and swapping it onto the others as he goes. It's not even on a QD mount either, he's over there fat fingering a tiny little hex key to remove and install it each time. At one point, he backed it off too far and the little piece that grips onto the rail fell down in the gravel and it took them like 5 minutes to find it.
The same guy that has told me that an Aimpoint is a waste of money thinks that owning multiple $300 hobby spec ARs with a single BCG and charging handle, and two chinese red dots is a wise use of resources. He had more money tied up in a pile of unfinished garbage that he would have if he bought a quality rifle and set it up with a good quality optic, light, and a sling.
This is outstanding! I love these guys. They keep me entertained when I come across them at the range. That is assuming they don't try to give me unsolicited advice.
What do you guys think these ACO & PRO optics fair in the world of RDS think? Obvious not T2 material but where in the "Wide World of Sports" (watched Blazing Saddles yesterday) do you think they land?
The Aimpoint Pro is a great, durable RDS. Are they as 'in' as Micros? No, but there is nothing wrong with them. I have an 8 year old Pro working more then fine. It bounces between different rifles typically but has landed on my CCU upper with 3x behind it. Older school? Sure. But it still put rounds on target like a Micro with the old handicap being a couple of oz.
I’ve always owned aimpoint micros. Most recently a T2, T1, and 3 painted R1s (one aimpoint just fixed for free). This year I also added a NF NX1-8 on a 16” gun and bought am Eotech Exps 3 to try one out. I do like the Eotech in front of the Eotech 3x, I also have one behind the T1. Aimpoints are what I learned on and are still my favorite, I just replaced my T1 battery this year that has been on since 2010....when covid hit.
On other related news since the diabetes guy was mentioned, he passed away, may he RIP.
Rubber push button adjustments are a deal killer for me. I want a manual rheostat dial I can adjust on the fly to the exact setting I want. I do not want to push sequences of buttons.
Vortex UH1 and EoTech are a no go for me.
Also the USB port on the first gen UH1 is retarded.
I’ve always owned aimpoint micros. Most recently a T2, T1, and 3 painted R1s (one aimpoint just fixed for free). This year I also added a NF NX1-8 on a 16” gun and bought am Eotech Exps 3 to try one out. I do like the Eotech in front of the Eotech 3x, I also have one behind the T1. Aimpoints are what I learned on and are still my favorite, I just replaced my T1 battery this year that has been on since 2010....when covid hit.
On other related news since the diabetes guy was mentioned, he passed away, may he RIP.
I wonder how much the "what you learned on" factor influences preferences. An Eotech was the first RDS I ever used, when I got back in to ARs a year ago it was naturally where I went. As soon as I can find the parts in the stock, my next AR will probably get a T-2, just because I want to see what all the fuss is about.
As I have unfortunately discovered, astigmatism is real. I used to have better than 20/20 vision "back in the day". I type this with Wal Mart readers on. Distance is still good (thank God something is!). But a year or more ago I started noticing my T-1's and T-2's and PRO having a "tail" on the dot. I did a little research and g-damn it I apparently have astigmatism. Makes fine zeroing, even from a rest, a real PIA. Not too bad for quick shooting but more "precise" stuff (as far as RDS go)? Makes it frustrating.
I will be 55 next month.
As I have unfortunately discovered, astigmatism is real. I used to have better than 20/20 vision "back in the day". I type this with Wal Mart readers on. Distance is still good (thank God something is!). But a year or more ago I started noticing my T-1's and T-2's and PRO having a "tail" on the dot. I did a little research and g-damn it I apparently have astigmatism. Makes fine zeroing, even from a rest, a real PIA. Not too bad for quick shooting but more "precise" stuff (as far as RDS go)? Makes it frustrating.
I will be 55 next month.
Fellow 55yr old here. I’m in the same place vision wise. I’ve learned that for precise shots I’m
able to get a crisp dot on my H1 by looking through the aperture of my rear sight.
Rubber push button adjustments are a deal killer for me. I want a manual rheostat dial I can adjust on the fly to the exact setting I want. I do not want to push sequences of buttons.
Vortex UH1 and EoTech are a no go for me.
Also the USB port on the first gen UH1 is retarded.
I agree with the button hate. I have a Nikon SuperDot (hey, it's not Chinese at least) with push buttons. It's well designed, buttons are on top and ambidextrous. I greatly prefer the top center dial on my MRO or even the dial on the PRO, even though it's a long way around from off to daylight bright. The Nikon is a good .22lr dot; it's very clear, compact, and light.
Andy
Can someone explain what’s wrong with buttons? If your EoTech is dim, you push the plus button....what’s so hard about that? I can’t GAF how it works, as long as it works.
Can someone explain what’s wrong with buttons? If your EoTech is dim, you push the plus button....what’s so hard about that? I can’t GAF how it works, as long as it works.
In my opinion, a knob is easier to find, more intuitive and tactile. They are easier to use in the dark, with gloves, cold wet hands, etc.
I have never used an EoTech, but it's hard for me to see how they can build buttons that are as intuitive as a knob.
Doesn't mean they don't work and you have a LOT more experience than I.
Andy
On the Eotech, I grab the top of the shield, wrapping my hand around the front as if I’m going to yank the optic rearward. This places my opposable(tm) thumb’s tip directly on the plus button.
Back to astigmatism, at what distance does it become signifigant? Inside the house? 25 yards? 50 yards ?
PB
I'm sure it's highly individual to shooter's vision. I have moderate issues with the T1, which I've learned some workarounds for, and with the T2 the issue is mild enough I can pretty much ignore it. With a quality magnifier and especially if it has ocular adjustment, the issue vanishes.
With a T1:
* Even with the blurry/blob effect that I get on the dot, I can still make fast heads-up hits on torso-sized targets out to 50m. Very little impact in that scenario when I'm shooting at a larger sized target.
* For more precisely aimed shots trying to hit something smaller (say a head-sized or smaller target) or at a range > 50m, I use either or both of these workarounds and get by ok. But using ONLY the blurred T1 with my uncorrected eyes, I cannot get as precise hits as I could 10 years ago.
- Turn down the light intensity 1 to 2 clicks.
- Look through my rear peep sight (lower 1/3 cowitness).
I've also read a few reports that using a quality 3x magnifier with an ocular adjustment can clean up an Aimpoint red dot, though I haven't tried that with the T1.
Fellow 55yr old here. I’m in the same place vision wise. I’ve learned that for precise shots I’m
able to get a crisp dot on my H1 by looking through the aperture of my rear sight.
Yes, that does help. It doesn't completely remove the tail but certainly makes it less noticeable. However, it also kind of makes it slower to pick up that dot when snapping the weapon up (since you're searching for the aperture).
I'm sure it's highly individual to shooter's vision. I have moderate issues with the T1, which I've learned some workarounds for, and with the T2 the issue is mild enough I can pretty much ignore it. With a quality magnifier and especially if it has ocular adjustment, the issue vanishes.
With a T1:
* Even with the blurry/blob effect that I get on the dot, I can still make fast heads-up hits on torso-sized targets out to 50m. Very little impact in that scenario when I'm shooting at a larger sized target.
* For more precisely aimed shots trying to hit something smaller (say a head-sized or smaller target) or at a range > 50m, I use either or both of these workarounds and get by ok. But using ONLY the blurred T1 with my uncorrected eyes, I cannot get as precise hits as I could 10 years ago.
- Turn down the light intensity 1 to 2 clicks.
- Look through my rear peep sight (lower 1/3 cowitness).
I've also read a few reports that using a quality 3x magnifier with an ocular adjustment can clean up an Aimpoint red dot, though I haven't tried that with the T1.
I'd like to read some verification of that before I drop the $$$ on a quality magnifier. Not doubting you, just would like to hear someone say "Yeah, it works".
I'd like to read some verification of that before I drop the $$$ on a quality magnifier. Not doubting you, just would like to hear someone say "Yeah, it works".
Same--I don't want to go buy one just on the POSSIBILITY it might work. I have a solid Vortex Razor for my LPVO setup on another rifle, so I'm getting by with just the T1 + BUIS on my newer setup that has the BCM LW barrel. I don't really NEED a magnified setup on that rifle, and I don't want the added cost and weight penalty of an LPVO, so I'm just living with the blurry T1. I might eventually spring for another T2 + Scalarworks mount package, but dang, $800 is a lot to pay just to have a non-blurry dot. :laugh:
Back to astigmatism, at what distance does it become signifigant? Inside the house? 25 yards? 50 yards ?
For quick shots, which is what the RDS is basically for, it shouldn't be an issue. For more "precise" stuff (as much as you can with an RDS anyway) such as zeroing it can be a royal PIA. When doing so I try to focus on the "body" of the dot and not the "tail" growing off of it, but it ain't easy. One thing seems to be consistent though, the "tail" for me is at about the 5 o'clock position on my different T-1's and T-2's.
One thing I have noticed however is that the EOTech's center dot doesn't have as pronounced of a "tail" to it. I read somewhere that it's because the EOTech is a holographic sight and the way the dot is projected is different from a regular RDS (?).
Also, I have two ACOGs, both with the upside-down horseshoe/dot reticle. The dots on those ACOGs do not have "tails" on them.
For quick shots, which is what the RDS is basically for, it shouldn't be an issue. For more "precise" stuff (as much as you can with an RDS anyway) such as zeroing it can be a royal PIA. When doing so I try to focus on the "body" of the dot and not the "tail" growing off of it, but it ain't easy. One thing seems to be consistent though, the "tail" for me is at about the 5 o'clock position on my different T-1's and T-2's.
One thing I have noticed however is that the EOTech's center dot doesn't have as pronounced of a "tail" to it. I read somewhere that it's because the EOTech is a holographic sight and the way the dot is projected is different from a regular RDS (?).
Also, I have two ACOGs, both with the upside-down horseshoe/dot reticle. The dots on those ACOGs do not have "tails" on them.
Since you mention ACOGs (which I've never owned), I wonder if a workaround to the astigmatism issue for some shooters could be....
* Run a quality lightweight, fixed optic such as an ACOG, or similar prism type sight, with a regular reticle (which avoids the common astigmatism issues of RDS sights). The main advantage of this approach vs LPVO being, mechanical simplicity and reliability, and weight savings.
* Run a top-mounted, or offset rail-mounted, RDS. As you said about RDS, it works fine even for astimatism sufferers if used in its main CQB role, so using it in this way combined with an ACOG or prism sight, would let you do that.
Always been curious about that setup and now, it seems like a possible workaround for shooters who want to run a quality RDS like Aimpoint, but find it's limiting their ability to get precision hits. Have you tried this combo?
Since you mention ACOGs (which I've never owned), I wonder if a workaround to the astigmatism issue for some shooters could be....
* Run a quality lightweight, fixed optic such as an ACOG, or similar prism type sight, with a regular reticle (which avoids the common astigmatism issues of RDS sights). The main advantage of this approach vs LPVO being, mechanical simplicity and reliability, and weight savings.
* Run a top-mounted, or offset rail-mounted, RDS. As you said about RDS, it works fine even for astimatism sufferers if used in its main CQB role, so using it in this way combined with an ACOG or prism sight, would let you do that.
Always been curious about that setup and now, it seems like a possible workaround for shooters who want to run a quality RDS like Aimpoint, but find it's limiting their ability to get precision hits. Have you tried this combo?
No I have not. If you practice a bit you can use the ACOG as an "RDS" for reflexive-type shooting. It isn't as optimal as an actual RDS for that purpose but the Binden Aiming Concept (both eyes open) theoretically enables the ACOG to be used like that. What's cool about that is you can practice without actually having to fire a gazillion rounds. I've done it during the day as well as at night. It takes some getting used to but it's doable.
I'd like to hear from some of our combat vets who've used the ACOG downrange for CQB-ish shooting when it was necessary and what they think of it's ability to do that. Obviously distance is what it's made for but supposedly has that up-close-and-personal feature.
Removed
From some of your previous posts you've BTDT. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
From things I've read it comes down to these points:
1) The BAC thing, while "doable", is far from optimal for CQB ranges.
2) To even make it somewhat worthwhile it takes LOTS of practice, considerably more so than a RDS.
Its not the best choice for that application, but dudes have met Allah through that optic.
When did Aimpoint have a price increase? Seems like all the Micro models on the new and used market are selling for at least $100 higher than it did a few years ago.
ETA: Just checked my notes and see that I paid $505 for an near new condition Aimpoint H2 with an ADM Low Mount on the EE back in 2017. I don’t think I’ve seen an H2 go for less than $600 lately. T1’s that used to sell for $500-550 with a LaRue Mount are now $600+. T2 is running near $700 from what I’m seeing on the EE.
Is this panic pricing or is that the norm now
When did Aimpoint have a price increase? Seems like all the Micro models on the new and used market are selling for at least $100 higher than it did a few years ago.
ETA: Just checked my notes and see that I paid $505 for an near new condition Aimpoint H2 with an ADM Low Mount on the EE back in 2017. I don’t think I’ve seen an H2 go for less than $600 lately. T1’s that used to sell for $500-550 with a LaRue Mount are now $600+. T2 is running near $700 from what I’m seeing on the EE.
Is this panic pricing or is that the norm now
Lat time I looked a while back the T-2's were $600+, so perhaps it is the new norm.
Back to astigmatism, at what distance does it become signifigant? Inside the house? 25 yards? 50 yards ?
PB
Ever tried visiting an optometrist? I did a couple of years ago and had a pair of glasses made that corrected my astigmatism. It's not 100% but it was huge improvement for me. The dot is much cleaner now and the tail blob phenomenon is almost completely gone. Reading into it before I did it seems to indicate that ymmv depending how on your eyes.
PracticalRifleman
08-09-20, 20:22
Ever tried visiting an optometrist? I did a couple of years ago and had a pair of glasses made that corrected my astigmatism. It's not 100% but it was huge improvement for me. The dot is much cleaner now and the tail blob phenomenon is almost completely gone. Reading into it before I did it seems to indicate that ymmv depending how on your eyes.
I took my RMR with me and we went through scripts until we had it nearly perfect. Highly recommended.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gatorgrizz27
01-27-21, 19:15
The ACRO has about a three week battery life of left on at a useable level.
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With it primarily being used on either a home defense handgun or CCW, it would be interesting to see the “wireless” charging integrated like phones have come to have. A charging pad could either plug into a small bedside safe or just on the nightstand if kids aren’t present, and you don’t have to worry about batteries ever again.
mebiuspower
01-28-21, 05:46
With it primarily being used on either a home defense handgun or CCW, it would be interesting to see the “wireless” charging integrated like phones have come to have. A charging pad could either plug into a small bedside safe or just on the nightstand if kids aren’t present, and you don’t have to worry about batteries ever again.
Talk about safety disaster waiting to happen...
"Kid takes loaded gun from the wireless charging stand, kills parents..."
I have a T1 on my main HD gun and a PRO on the back up..
Anyone have any experience with the ACO... The Aimpoint Carbine Optic? And I know a PRO is $40 bucks difference usually.
T2 with LEAP mount sits on the bedside “pistol”. It’s certainly the best RDS for me, but I must say the mushy brightness knob has me wishing I’d spent $50 more on the Comp M5 instead. At any rate, the dot is perfectly crisp, battery life is phenomenal, and I have no doubts about the durability of the optic. Peace of mind is worth the price jump from a budget optic, especially for a gun that doubles as my companion on long trips; I’d have less faith in a budget optic holding up in my trunk on a road trip, and the MRO (post 89k serial no.) was a comma to my eyes. The PRO was even worse with my astigmatism.
Coupled with a tough, lightweight RTZ mount (I refuse to call Scalarworks knob “quick detach” because it’s anything but quick) and I couldn’t ask for a better serious use optic. I have a hard time not thinking of the T2/M5 as the best RDS in the world. Competitors may match it or one-up it with FOV, battery life, price, etc, but they’ll never have the track record.
WickedWillis
01-28-21, 11:33
I have a T1 on my main HD gun and a PRO on the back up..
Anyone have any experience with the ACO... The Aimpoint Carbine Optic? And I know a PRO is $40 bucks difference usually.
I just bought my first one for my Dad's rifle I built. I will let you know once I get a range trip. Looks identical to my PRO, sans night vision of course.
I just bought my first one for my Dad's rifle I built. I will let you know once I get a range trip. Looks identical to my PRO, sans night vision of course.
Sweet! Thank you
Dr. Bullseye
01-28-21, 23:56
OMFG, there is Aimpoint worship but somebody needs to help the OP off his Aimpoint prayer rug.
Eurodriver
01-29-21, 05:20
OMFG, there is Aimpoint worship but somebody needs to help the OP off his Aimpoint prayer rug.
Go be poor somewhere else.
grizzlyblake
01-29-21, 06:56
Euro, how do you like those DD mounts compared to the factory LRP mounts? I’m picking up two more H2s and the price is essentially a wash to get the included LRP or just the H2 and DD. I currently have one H2 with the LRP and it’s ok but looks a little flimsy.
I just hate how anyone uses flathead screws instead of hex anymore.
Eurodriver
01-29-21, 07:52
Euro, how do you like those DD mounts compared to the factory LRP mounts? I’m picking up two more H2s and the price is essentially a wash to get the included LRP or just the H2 and DD. I currently have one H2 with the LRP and it’s ok but looks a little flimsy.
I just hate how anyone uses flathead screws instead of hex anymore.
Totally agree on flathead vs hex. It doesn’t matter once it’s mounted but it still sucks. Makes zero sense. The cost savings are probably nothing to switch. Maybe DD likes the look? (I don’t)
I’ve found the factory LRP mounts to feel kind of flimsy. (Edit - I just realized you and I used the same word. That’s a clue in my mind) I use DD because they are the “best” mounts where QD isn’t required. Best is subjective - any mount that doesn’t loosen or break will do but I haven’t found any other permanent mounts that are rock solid for $65 and offer Lower 1/3 or Absolute.
Happy to take input from others if they know of issues with the DD Micro mount but I’ve been using them for 5+ years including on full auto and never had a single problem.
For QD, I used to buy (and still use) Larue but recently switched to Scalarworks combos for all new purchases. I did this for several reasons:
Primarily, I wanted to annoy my friends from Texas who think using anything except 20 year old lever mounts made in Texas ya’ll will result in your weapon going down immediately upon firing a single shot. They really believe this out there. I thought they were trolling at first, but they’re not.
Secondarily, I don’t like how Larue’s inventory is always sold out, levers stick out (compared to Scalarworks that are streamlined), and Scalarworks combos come preassembled with the optic mounted using a quality torque wrench. Every time I’ve bought a combo from Larue they just throw the Aimpoint and mount in a box and call it a day. Scalarwork’s attention to detail is important to me. I’m old now and no longer interested in fiddling with loctite and “1/4 turn past hand tight” specs if I can buy something quality preassembled for basically the same price.
grizzlyblake
01-29-21, 08:30
Thanks dude, sounds like we are on the same wavelength.
I have a new DD mount somewhere at home but right now I'm sitting in my office and can't find any good info online.
What's the process to mount to the DD? I don't see holes that allow for a straight style torque wrench to access the screws that go into the AP body itself. Is the expectation a tiny allen wrench and hand tight? I'm kind of a proper torque fanatic.
mebiuspower
01-29-21, 08:36
Larue mounts were the cat's meow 10-15 years ago but there are so many better options out there now.
Rayrevolver
01-29-21, 09:31
I didn't read all the post but will throw in some thoughts on the MRO. When it came out I was all-in, sold an RMR and some other optics for 2 new MRO/Scalarworks bundles ($575 each at the time).
It was love at first "garage pew-pew" but the more time I spent behind the optic, the more weird things happened. I think the bottom line was that it was stressing my eyes to shoot. Longer sessions made it worse. And thats why initially it seemed good when I was shooting a mag at home suppressed.
So maybe that is my eyeballs and not the MROs fault. BUT this doesn't happen with any other optic, cheap or not. Currently have EXPS2, Holosun, Sig, PA 1x prism, and a Lucid 1x.
Just traded into a T-2/1.93 but zero rounds shot so far. Been trying to make a T-2 happen for years, finally have one. This will be my setup for the long haul and the other optics will live on PCCs, 22s, and the like.
grizzlyblake
01-29-21, 09:43
I didn't read all the post but will throw in some thoughts on the MRO. When it came out I was all-in, sold an RMR and some other optics for 2 new MRO/Scalarworks bundles ($575 each at the time).
It was love at first "garage pew-pew" but the more time I spent behind the optic, the more weird things happened. I think the bottom line was that it was stressing my eyes to shoot. Longer sessions made it worse. And thats why initially it seemed good when I was shooting a mag at home suppressed.
So maybe that is my eyeballs and not the MROs fault. BUT this doesn't happen with any other optic, cheap or not. Currently have EXPS2, Holosun, Sig, PA 1x prism, and a Lucid 1x.
Just traded into a T-2/1.93 but zero rounds shot so far. Been trying to make a T-2 happen for years, finally have one. This will be my setup for the long haul and the other optics will live on PCCs, 22s, and the like.
The MRO's problem is parallax. I know a bunch of guys will quickly say I'm wrong, but go ahead and order one from Midway, set it on your kitchen table and aim it at your neighbor's house across the street. Move your head around and you'll watch the dot move like 8 inches around the initial aiming point.
Might be okay for like an entry team or something, but it's a train wreck for normal rifle stuff.
The MRO's problem is parallax. I know a bunch of guys will quickly say I'm wrong, but go ahead and order one from Midway, set it on your kitchen table and aim it at your neighbor's house across the street. Move your head around and you'll watch the dot move like 8 inches around the initial aiming point.
Might be okay for like an entry team or something, but it's a train wreck for normal rifle stuff.Here I am, one of those guys.
I like the MRO. I understand it does have more parallax then other rds. I only use rds on my shorties as all my carbines have magnified optics.
With my 10.5 with MRO, I have no trouble making hits out to 250 and that is about my limit with that gun regardless of optic. I do also run a fixed front sight, and that helps negates parallax issues anyway because when I make a precise shot I tend to put the dot on top of the post.
Soli Deo Gloria
grizzlyblake
01-29-21, 10:12
Here I am, one of those guys.
I like the MRO. I understand it does have more parallax then other rds. I only use rds on my shorties as all my carbines have magnified optics.
With my 10.5 with MRO, I have no trouble making hits out to 250 and that is about my limit with that gun regardless of optic. I do also run a fixed front sight, and that helps negates parallax issues anyway because when I make a precise shot I tend to put the dot on top of the post.
Soli Deo Gloria
But that's my point. You are having to do stuff to make the bullet go where the dot is.
With a T/H2 you just put the dot on something and that's where the impact is.
Do that kitchen table experiment with the Aimpoint and the dot will stay at exactly the same spot you aimed it to no matter where you move your head.
But that's my point. You are having to do stuff to make the bullet go where the dot is.
With a T/H2 you just put the dot on something and that's where the impact is.
Do that kitchen table experiment with the Aimpoint and the dot will stay at exactly the same spot you aimed it to no matter where you move your head.I do have aimpoints. They do have minimal paralax. I still run them with fixed front sights. It's what I like.
I am not really having to do stuff, it's simply what the eye naturally does. Now in some positions, it's a different story, but it's still never a problem for me.
I am not going to deny that the aimpoint is superior in some ways, but everything has pros and cons, and for me, I actually like the MRO more.
The rest of the internet hates them and I am good with that. I also love acogs, so I know I am an oddball.
Soli Deo Gloria
Can’t say euro is wrong. The micros are awesome, but I like the Comp M4s.
Bringing this one back..... what are people thinking about the Duty RDS? I picked one up recently and seems very solidly constructed, even for an Aimpoint. I am looking forward to getting it on a standard micro pattern lower 1/3 mount for a little extra height.
I have both a T2 and a Duty. The Duty works better with my astigmatism in terms of looking like a dot instead of a comma
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
I have both a T2 and a Duty. The Duty works better with my astigmatism in terms of looking like a dot instead of a comma
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
That’s interesting. I suffer with this also but I have come to ignore it. Need to double check this against other sights.
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