View Full Version : POF P-415 not ejecting properly, high recoil
My P-415 is ejecting case 1' to 2' at 1 o'clock, sometimes the case drops inches from the rifle. Recoil seems high for a "soft shooting" heavy rifle as I can't stay on target. Significantly more recoil compared to my S&W mp15 DI rifles that weighs much less. This is the same for 5.56 55 gr ball or 50 gr .223.
Extractor is leaving slight marks on case rim, maybe some slight deformation of the rim. Slight.
Bought this rifle 10(?) Years ago and not fired till this year. 200 to 300 rounds fired to date. Of those, 2 stove piped. All others ejected and next round loaded. Bolt locks back on last round.
2-3 moa with xm ball, 1 moa with 50 gr fiocchi.
Cleaned the bore a few times with bore brush. All looks good as I can see.
Cleaned bolt a few times, all good.
Cleaned piston a few times, all looks good as I can see.
Piston valve is set to the "normal" position (2 settings system, normal and surpressed).
Thoughts? The high recoil seems odd, like the timing is off. What else should I be looking at?
NIXDSG
My P-415 is ejecting case 1' to 2' at 1 o'clock, sometimes the case drops inches from the rifle. Recoil seems high for a "soft shooting" heavy rifle as I can't stay on target. Significantly more recoil compared to my S&W mp15 DI rifles that weighs much less. This is the same for 5.56 55 gr ball or 50 gr .223.
Extractor is leaving slight marks on case rim, maybe some slight deformation of the rim. Slight.
Bought this rifle 10(?) Years ago and not fired till this year. 200 to 300 rounds fired to date. Of those, 2 stove piped. All others ejected and next round loaded. Bolt locks back on last round.
2-3 moa with xm ball, 1 moa with 50 gr fiocchi.
Cleaned the bore a few times with bore brush. All looks good as I can see.
Cleaned bolt a few times, all good.
Cleaned piston a few times, all looks good as I can see.
Piston valve is set to the "normal" position (2 settings system, normal and surpressed).
Thoughts? The high recoil seems odd, like the timing is off. What else should I be looking at?
NIXDSG
Can you turn the gas off completely? Put in tight fitting plugs and good muffs and try it. Maybe the loud comp has you thinking it kicks more. With the gas off there will be nothing to influence the recoil impulse.
With the electronic muffs I have it's no louder to shoot compared to my mp15. Standing next to it, it's louder.
Yes, I can turn off the gas, not tried that.
My shooting buddy shot it, immediately said "wow, that thing is snappy".
Well, not sure I can turn the gas off. Looks to have "N" and "S" modes. I suppose I could turn it 1/2 way, but will not lock in place (might shoot it out?).
I cleaned it good, again. Only odd thing I see is contact with the bolt cam pin/roller with the upper as it comes out of that pocket. I see similar contact on my BCM and PSA upper to bolt cam pin so maybe that is normal?
Pushed a pipe cleaner into the gas port in the barrel, so it's aligned enough with the piston block to do that.
The_War_Wagon
07-19-20, 13:05
I bought one 12 years ago - traded it away 9 years ago. If it's Gen.3+, it should have an adjustable gas key - like an FAL - with 4 settings, as I recall. You've got a LOT more pieces to move, so wimpy ammo will need to be adjusted for.
Your recoil is not harder, it's just DIFFERENT than DI recoil. I ran an H3 buffer in mine. I also went with the PWS anti-tilt buffer tube, because buffer erosion is a real thing. I could see it happening inside my factory tube in less than 400rds.
Since you're about to outlay a whole lot MORE money, to make it, "as GOOD as," let me suggest a GOOD scope - and make an SPR out of it. Having lugged mine around a few PA/OH/WV Study Group sessions back in the day, it made me better appreciate CARRYING the DI rifle again.
Or you could do like I did. I traded mine for a NiB Kimber UC, and $800 cash. I still have the Kimber, btw.
Not sure which gen it is, but it has 2 settings, normal and suppressed.
I have other piston guns and DI, the fact that it "feels" different isn't it, but I understand what you are saying. It's not spitting out the brass as I'd expect. XM193, XM855, or .223, they all do the same thing. It cycles, but not with the authority as I'd like.
Plan is to use this for prairie dog hunting in the near future. Put a Viper 4-16 on it. It is not a light rig, I have others for walking in the woods.
Have you tried shooting it in the suppressed setting?
No, I have not tried the suppressor setting. My assumption is that the ejection is so weak that any further reduction would result in a fte. But, it would not hurt to try.
Same with larger buffer, might reduce recoil but would reduce ejection also.
It's like it is unlocking late. My impression but guessing.
It's been a while, but here's an update.
Tried an H-2 buffer, didn't seem to change ejection location, still around 1:00. So, put gas block in suppressor setting, ejection changed to 5:00. Was a limited test, few rounds, then session done.
So, time to go hunting. In suppressor mode it was about perfect with 40 gr fiocchi. Recoil was better as I could see hits on target, too! Later in the day I was low on ammo so I had to shoot some 5.56 and about first round fte. Also, 5.56 opened up on target making it difficult to get hits above 250 yards.
Not "fixed" but worked well in suppressor setting and fiocchi ammo. Dropped a lot of prairie dogs, rifle was near perfect. So good I didn't take out my back up rifle which I was originally excited to shoot (H&K SL8 w/ 4-20 scope). I still need to contact POF and see if they have a solution to get this to run on all ammo types. Shot about 700 rounds in 2 days.
Mostly happy, rifle is accurate, recoil is tamed, functions with hunting ammo.
At this point, based on your most recent update, it's probably safe to say that the rifle is seriously overgassed. I would say that your number one solution would be to send it back to POF, or at least get them to send you an updated gas valve with smaller orifices. In the meantime, if you feel like experimenting, a Sprinco Blue spring and/or an H3 buffer would be in order to see if you can get it reliable in the non-suppressed setting.
The_War_Wagon
08-14-20, 07:09
It's like it is unlocking late. My impression but guessing.
It's a piston. It WILL unlock later than a DI rifle. An H3 buffer will add another microsecond or two to that as well.
Called POF today, they seemed interested in the issue and confused in the situation. Here's to hoping that was honest and they will get back to me with a solution.
I may have to invest in a spring and H3.
Thanks all.
Called POF again yesterday, I never heard back. Explained the situation, again. Put me on hold, came back with "talked to ..." and "said try replacing the buffer spring, they can relax". Huh, really. That's how springs work?? I told him I did, also tried an H2 buffer with no improvement.
Put me on hold again.
Came back and asked me to photograph the part of piston system to confirm parts in gun.
I'll follow up this morning.
NIXDSG
I’ve got 3k+ through a 9.25 gen 2. Sold upper, but I have some time on the gun.
How does it run in S mode with XM193BK?
Also, for the hell of it have you removed the “rail” to expose the standard upper below?
In "S" mode 5.56 and .223 both work better, ejecting at 5:00. The 223 worked flawless during 700 rounds hunting, but first 5.56 failed to eject, then seemed to work. Again, this was in "S" mode.
In "N" mode both are ejecting at 1:00 and recoil is high. Multiple fte.
I tried H2 in "N" mode, didn't change anything. I don't remember using g H2 in "S" mode, might improve 5.56.
Not removed rail, how would that help?
In "S" mode 5.56 and .223 both work better, ejecting at 5:00. The 223 worked flawless during 700 rounds hunting, but first 5.56 failed to eject, then seemed to work. Again, this was in "S" mode.
In "N" mode both are ejecting at 1:00 and recoil is high. Multiple fte.
I tried H2 in "N" mode, didn't change anything. I don't remember using g H2 in "S" mode, might improve 5.56.
Not removed rail, how would that help?
Not sure it would other than ensuring its’ put together right.
Apples / oranges but mine ran fine with fed223&xm193 in N, carbine spring, un-suppressed H2 or suppressed H3.
One of the most reliable ARs I’ve ever owned. Although a lot of gas to face suppressed
Hope POF steps up. Stay on them
Have you checked the rod to see if it was binding on anything?
Have you checked the rod to see if it was binding on anything?
Yup. Moves free as can be.
Not getting a response from POF I had given up on their support to resolve this, but yesterday they called me back! No solution, just asking for info and pictures that I'd already sent them, but that's ok as I'm happy to resend.
So, they are still working on a response, I'll take that.
In the meantime I've cleaned/inspected everything, again. Also, I purchased a blue buffer spring and H3 buffer. Pending testing.
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